Easy. Run someone other than Trump. Hoping like hell he isn't the candidate in 2024.
Easy. Run someone other than Trump. Hoping like hell he isn't the candidate in 2024.
Easy. If Trump runs, vote for him. Hoping like hell the NeverTrumpers don't betray conservatism AGAIN by not voting...voting for 3rd party nitwits with no chance...or god forbid, voting for Biden again. But if they do, its their mess...and the continued loss of our freedoms is their fault. No ifs...no ands...no buts....you people brought us Biden, Harris, Pelosi and the Commie Brigade in power. I'm rather hoping you don't do it again...but expecting the same self centered stupidity to, once again, override your common sense.
Call me a pessimist.
Trump's loss was the handiwork of the liberal leftists stealing the election.
Trying to figure out why people still think Trump will run at age 78.
Really trying to understand the logic in people thinking that the DEMS won't continue to steal elections, change voting laws, etc.
Trump's loss was the handiwork of the liberal leftists stealing the election. It was ALSO that.
Trying to figure out why people still think Trump will run at age 78. He ain't your standard 78 year old...man is relentlessly energetic.
Really trying to understand the logic in people thinking that the DEMS won't continue to steal elections, change voting laws, etc. Nothing to understand really...we ALL know they will try but we will also try to combat/prevent that.
Because Trump keeps dropping hints that he may run. If he's not running, he should come out and say it. And while he's at it, if he really cares about healing the damage, he'd FIRST be working quietly behind the scenes to identify a viable replacement candidate for Murkowski, and THEN badmouthing her. Instead what he'll do is just hand the Democrats another Senate seat.
Because Trump keeps dropping hints that he may run. If he's not running, he should come out and say it. And while he's at it, if he really cares about healing the damage, he'd FIRST be working quietly behind the scenes to identify a viable replacement candidate for Murkowski, and THEN badmouthing her. Instead what he'll do is just hand the Democrats another Senate seat.
McConnell, who has made clear how he feels about Trump, has already said the GOPe will throw its support behind Murkowski so how do you propose Trump "quietly work behind the scenes" to unseat Murkowski?
I realize old habits are hard to break but maybe you should be directing fire at Mr Charisma the minority leader for risking Murkowski's senate seat.
Easy. If Trump runs, vote for him. Hoping like hell the NeverTrumpers don't betray conservatism AGAIN by not voting...voting for 3rd party nitwits with no chance...or god forbid, voting for Biden again. But if they do, its their mess...and the continued loss of our freedoms is their fault. No ifs...no ands...no buts....you people brought us Biden, Harris, Pelosi and the Commie Brigade in power. I'm rather hoping you don't do it again...but expecting the same self centered stupidity to, once again, override your common sense.
Call me a pessimist.
A leader could do that. Trump can't, because he's not an effective leader. He has a number of positive qualities, but effective leadership isn't one of them.I cannot agree with your overly simplistic view of the way things played out late last year. It ignores too many facts in evidence and frankly is a bit too self serving.
I've got lots of gripes with McConnell. But the fact of the matter is that Trump was in charge when the current disaster unfolded - you know, the one that handed Dems control of House, Senate, and Presidency? If he can't put his own ego aside and work on fixing the mess he created, he should step aside.
I cannot agree with your overly simplistic view of the way things played out late last year. It ignores too many facts in evidence and frankly is a bit too self serving.
Easy. If Trump runs, vote for him. Hoping like hell the NeverTrumpers don't betray conservatism AGAIN
Because Trump keeps dropping hints that he may run. If he's not running, he should come out and say it. And while he's at it, if he really cares about healing the damage, he'd FIRST be working quietly behind the scenes to identify a viable replacement candidate for Murkowski, and THEN badmouthing her. Instead what he'll do is just hand the Democrats another Senate seat.
Because Trump keeps dropping hints that he may run. If he's not running, he should come out and say it.
I commend his sticking with his campaign promises, and his clear love for the country, but in every other way his administration was a complete failure.Funny. Do you not see how contradictory this statement is?
The way things stand, there's no way that the GOP is going to win future seats -- GOPe may hold on to a seat or two, but other then that the GOP is DOA.
IMHO President Donald J. Trump was a good leader and a good President. His time is over. Time for 75 million to figure out how to insert a new party/gov't. period.
POTUS45 will make his announcement when the time is right. You'd be so much more content @BassWrangler if you'd stop trying to tell this man what to do and not do. So, relax. He's got years to take to the cameras on this; years.
GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
Funny. Do you not see how contradictory this statement is?
I've learned to not bother discussing politics with those who's perspective is so diametrically opposite my own. there's absolutely no common ground, its a total waste of time. Suffice it to say I do not see the past four years the way you do.
It's not contradictory at all. Results matter, not talk and not intentions. I credit Trump with good intentions. His results sucked.
I notice you do not credit Trump as the GOP nearly won back the House against all predictions, yet you blame him, presumably, for the fraudulent 2020 election, as well as blame him for Biden's clearly unconstitutional EOs.
This is not rational.
The way things stand, there's no way that the GOP is going to win future seats --
Straw man arguments. Try again.Lol. As I said, I shouldn't bother.
Especially after they just let the Democrats set aside $1.9 trillion of taxpayer money earmarked for winning elections in 2024 and 2028. They could have prevented it, but they decided it was more important to enjoy a weekend at their DC residences instead of fighting for their own political survival.
We need to focus at the state level. I'm actively trying to find a way to get the heck out of Washington state and to a red state. I think we're approaching a point where things are going to get so bad that a split is possible.
Why wasn't the Trump Admin on top of the vote fraud ahead of the election? The fact is, Trump was reactive rather than proactive to literally every problem. And what he did in Georgia, which suppressed GOP voters in the run-off, is simply unforgivable. That one selfish act might by itself be the end of our country.The only voter suppression that was done in the run off election was done the same way it was done in the presidential election. Elections were stolen.
I commend his sticking with his campaign promises, and his clear love for the country, but in every other way his administration was a complete failure. His only legacy is that he handed the country over to America's enemies.
We need to focus at the state level. I'm actively trying to find a way to get the heck out of Washington state and to a red state. I think we're approaching a point where things are going to get so bad that a split is possible.You seem to be perfectly fine there in Washington state.
Why wasn't the Trump Admin on top of the vote fraud ahead of the election? The fact is, Trump was reactive rather than proactive to literally every problem. And what he did in Georgia, which suppressed GOP voters in the run-off, is simply unforgivable. That one selfish act might by itself be the end of our country.
We need to focus at the state level. I'm actively trying to find a way to get the heck out of Washington state and to a red state. I think we're approaching a point where things are going to get so bad that a split is possible.
GOP dilemma — how to put defeating Democrats ahead of settling petty scores against fellow GOP members.
I think a split is probable. If you can manage to get out of Washington -- go for it.
FL is retiree and tax friendly. I don't know what FL is going to look like after the '22 elections as the DEMS will try again to turn it blue ... but we have seen an influx of new residents. I don't know how the job market is, but I would think people must be finding some type of work in order to move down here. A friend of mine sold her mother-in-law's home, without the purchaser even seeing the home - cash offer (they saw it on-line) and she sold her home with 7 offers.
Home values right now are climbing as inventory is very low. They are building like crazy in my area; houses, condos and apartments.
The only voter suppression that was done in the run off election was done the same way it was done in the presidential election. Elections were stolen.
The fact is you don't know what you're talking about @BassWrangler Both the Trump administration and the RNC filed lawsuit after lawsuit leading up to the election. I know this because I posted the results for each and every one of them as them were known. They won some and lost some. A few ended up in the black hole. Clearly, both the administration and the RNC wish in hindsight they had focused on five states, but don't make it sound like they didn't try. BTW, a little Congressional fortitude and help would have been good to have, so move your pointer to their direction.
As for Georgia--- you again are just flat out wrong. The President held two rallies for these loser candidates ..... gave them more airtime to reach more people than they did through the entire campaign. The thousands and thousands of attendees interrupted the speeches by these two fool candidates to "Fight for Trump!" The President didn't do this, the people did. I know this, too, because I posted video after video of the events. Did the candidates do anything? No. Did they grab McConnell and tell him: "The Senate HAS to do something or we risk losing the seats"? No.
And looking further into Georgia, it was McConnell who lost the election. Not only did this jackass not fight the voter fraud and stand with the voters in Georgia, or insist the Georgia Legislature fix the fraud before the election in January, the unmitigated swamp creature fought the President on a $2,000 stimulus check --- fiercely and in public --- while the Democrats from Biden on down were in GA openly bribing voters of all stripes with a $2,000 check --- which many believed would happen. Can you guess by now how I know this?
Get the damn facts straight before you go pointing an accusatory finger or you may look up and see a different finger pointing back at you.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
You can have your own opinion, but you cannot have your own facts @BassWrangler And your facts are (intentionally) effed up.
So, no, we do not have an agreement.
You seem to be perfectly fine there in Washington state.
The Common sense thing to dois defeat any Republican so that only democrats have the power, as was just done last election. so being morons, as bad as this is, keep making the same errors so that only democrats can win, but, but, non-judgmentally. That's not being pro-democrat, if you're stupid enough to believe that. As if this isn't bad enough, keep doing it, no conservative is Conservative enough, so be default only democrats can win.
Another fishing for fools day.
In the 50's grade schoolers could see though this baloney. Blame it on the dumbing down of public education,eh?
The common sense thing to do is to quit supporting Republicans merely for shiny baubles. or even more, as an hedge against Democrats. They ARE NO HEDGE against Democrats. They have not won a single damn thing in 35 years. Your argument is as asinine as always because Democrats are winning ANYWAY. Your fetid, feckless party is no stop-gap at all.
If someone's still an anti-Trump or Never-Trump ... forget 'em. They're too deep in the hate quicksand so no amount of trying to pull them free will be successful.
Wish them health and happiness and move on.
Exit polls showed the GOP turnout was down. That was 100% Trump and Trump acolytes telling people there was no point because of cheating.
I would agree with you that now is a good time to focus on primary-ing RINOs. But I'd like to see that take the form of finding and supporting good alternative candidates instead of driving RINOs even farther towards the Dems by threatening them. Talk softly and carry a big stick versus shoot your mouth off and write checks your butt can't cash.
The common sense thing to do is to quit supporting Republicans merely for shiny baubles. or even more, as an hedge against Democrats. They ARE NO HEDGE against Democrats. They have not won a single damn thing in 35 years. Your argument is as asinine as always because Democrats are winning ANYWAY. Your fetid, feckless party is no stop-gap at all.
Exit polls showed the GOP turnout was down. That was 100% Trump and Trump acolytes telling people there was no point because of cheating.
There have been a few minor victories scattered here and there, but overall this argument is correct. 2017-18 is a prime example. Republicans controlled the White House and both Houses of Congress. Yet the national debt increased by $2 trillion. And Planned Parenthood received over $1 billion in taxpayer funding - a record amount for any two-year period.
Exactly right, and it is nothing new... And still they keep voting em in there. Get them so fearful of Democrats they'll vote for anything
I would agree with you that now is a good time to focus on primary-ing RINOs. But I'd like to see that take the form of finding and supporting good alternative candidates instead of driving RINOs even farther towards the Dems by threatening them. Talk softly and carry a big stick versus shoot your mouth off and write checks your butt can't cash.
There have been a few minor victories scattered here and there, but overall this argument is correct. 2017-18 is a prime example. Republicans controlled the White House and both Houses of Congress. Yet the national debt increased by $2 trillion. And Planned Parenthood received over $1 billion in taxpayer funding - a record amount for any two-year period.
The President never told GA voters not to vote, directly or indirectly. The President went to Georgia, twice, encouraging Georgians to vote for the two candidates. He tore into the Democrat candidates, even using the TrumpTron, and described the power the democrats would have if they controlled the Senate. He was quite passionate.
At the same time, the PEOPLE of Georgia were begging Republicans in Congress to investigate and expose the fraud and prove the President's rightful victory. The PEOPLE of Georgia were begging their state legislature to do the same ... AND to fix the avenues for fraud before the January election so their votes would matter and victory would be possible.
These jackasses did neither. The State Legislature in Georgia and Republicans in Congress laughed in their faces and lost the state by allowing the fraud from November to continue in January. But I'd be remiss not to give an honorary hat tip to Mitch McConnell for telling Georgians not only were their votes not important enough to safeguard --- they also weren't worth $2,000 -- as the President had insisted they were.
Facts @BassWrangler . They're stubborn and don't change even under the weight of Trump hate.
We're at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia.
I am done waiting on Republicans. I was neck deep in TEA, but as usual, Republicans put that fire put.
Time for the rubber to hit the road. Put the hell up or shut the hell up. Show me the damn money.
Done with feckless promises. Done with half-assed movements selling hyphenated conservatism. Done with all of it. If y'all want to actually win, you're gonna have to stand for something. When I see Conservatism - ACTUAL Conservatism rising with fire in its eye, THEN I will hear y'all and come a running. Expecting folks to follow after this lukewarm low-dollar crap... Well it sure as hell don't attract me. and it never will.
Not you of course, @BassWrangler ... I agree with you more than I don't.
Nonsense
After Reagan won the cold war what has that approach accomplished?
Trump came into office with an agenda of restoring America and never stopped. So what if he called people out for being jerks and hypocrites, he never wavered!
It's time to change tactics. If Trump isn't going to start a 3rd party and instead is going to change the Pub party it's up to us to support the America First candidates in the primaries and if they aren't the nominee in the general election sit it out.
The GOP winning seats is not going to happen.
Come on, now. I'm as reliable of a conservative as you'll ever meet, and while I wasn't a fan of Trump in the primary, I supported him once he won. But now that he's left office, I think we need to move on as we normally do when a President loses after one term.
But I understand and appreciate that many of you have a deep love for the man, so in the interest of fighting the enemy and not each other, I'll drop it.
@BassWrangler
You don't understand anything. I wouldn't let him in my house if he came and knocked on the door.
Having said that,I don't vote for political candidates because I want to be their "bestie". I vote for who I think will best serve the country,NOT who might want to be my buddy.
Trump's ego is a HUGE turn-off for me personally,but in THIS particular case,it makes him the perfect candidate for President. His ego is tied to how he goes down in the history books as either a good president or a bum,and nothing is more important to him that how he will be seen by historians in the years to come.
He can't be bribed,and he can't even be threatened into betraying his oath because NOTHING is as important to him as the history books write-ups
Ok,if he saves America from the Dims and their Chinese masters,I'd probably let him use my phone.
Unless bills are passed and systems are put in place for a fair election., good luck with that.
Changing the Republican party on a crumbled foundation is futile especially with a DEM majority making rules as they seem fit to fulfill their agenda.
The GOP winning seats is not going to happen.
@BassWrangler
You don't understand anything. I wouldn't let him in my house if he came and knocked on the door.
Having said that,I don't vote for political candidates because I want to be their "bestie". I vote for who I think will best serve the country,NOT who might want to be my buddy.
Trump's ego is a HUGE turn-off for me personally,but in THIS particular case,it makes him the perfect candidate for President. His ego is tied to how he goes down in the history books as either a good president or a bum,and nothing is more important to him that how he will be seen by historians in the years to come.
He can't be bribed,and he can't even be threatened into betraying his oath because NOTHING is as important to him as the history books write-ups
Ok,if he saves America from the Dims and their Chinese masters,I'd probably let him use my phone.
Great analysis!
I am done waiting on Republicans. I was neck deep in TEA, but as usual, Republicans put that fire put.Yep, on all counts. 888high58888
Time for the rubber to hit the road. Put the hell up or shut the hell up. Show me the damn money.
Done with feckless promises. Done with half-assed movements selling hyphenated conservatism. Done with all of it. If y'all want to actually win, you're gonna have to stand for something. When I see Conservatism - ACTUAL Conservatism rising with fire in its eye, THEN I will hear y'all and come a running. Expecting folks to follow after this lukewarm low-dollar crap... Well it sure as hell don't attract me. and it never will.
Not you of course, @BassWrangler ... I agree with you more than I don't.
Yep, on all counts. 888high58888
Donald Trump shouldn't be the message. His message should be the message.That's what's important.
Donald Trump shouldn't be the message. His message should be the message.That's what's important.
I'd agree with you if he had any lasting accomplishments. he got some judges appointed, but that's about it.
Yeah, it is frustrating. It's been The death of a thousand cuts up until now.
Donald Trump shouldn't be the message. His message should be the message.That's what's important.
Come on, now. I'm as reliable of a conservative as you'll ever meet, and while I wasn't a fan of Trump in the primary, I supported him once he won. But now that he's left office, I think we need to move on as we normally do when a President loses after one term.
It would be nice to have a Federal government that represented and advocated for the interests of its citizens.
I want trade agreements that benefit all parties. I want to stop hearing the giant sucking sound of jobs moving to Mexico, China, and India.
I want American government and industry to invest in American workers. I don't want government and industry that supress my wages by importing cheaper foreign workers on H1-B visas.
I want America to have the greatest space program in the world. I don't want the embarassment of having to contract Russian rockets to send American astronauts to space.
I want America to call out China as a rogue Communist pirate state. For every island China builds in the South China Sea, I want America to build two islands in the South China Sea and two islands in the East China Sea.
I want NATO members to pay their share for the American nuclear umbrella that protects them. American bases and personnel should be based only in NATO countries that are contributing their full share.
I want an America that no longer needs to be protector of the Middle East. This is a post-World War II role that the United States took over from a declining British Empire.
I want an America that lives by the Monroe Doctrine. We should not have Russian and Chinese satellite states in the Western Hemisphire. Why did the Chinese build a cricket stadium on Dominca? Why did the Chinese build the Harrison's Cave tourist attraction on Barnados? What are the Chicoms interest in the Caribbean?
I want an American Government that doesn't cede American sovereignty to Globalism and Multi-nationalism. I pay taxes to the US Treasury - not the W.T.O, the U.N., the European Union, the World Bank, the Internation Monetary Fund, nor the governments of Mexico, China, and India.
I want an America that commands respect globally because it is the greatest nation on Earth, and the rest of the world knows it.
Trump was able to commandeer the GOP because it had no singular leader - it was divided among weak, spineless, cowardly President-wannabe Senators. It was ripe for his picking.
There are several candidates for 2024 you will find all of that in...but they won't come from the establishment or the RINO wing of the party.The problem there is that the RINO and GOPe wings will do all in their power to sabotage anyone who isn't part of their 'club'. We just saw that go down, and they are not to be trusted any more than the Dems, imho. While they will 'virtue signal' with votes, they cannot be counted on to hold the line, nor work together. Even the Communists, Homosexuals, Racially charged groups of the left will circle wagons in a common lager for their mutual benefit, but the GOP just invokes the circular firing squad.
The problem there is that the RINO and GOPe wings will do all in their power to sabotage anyone who isn't part of their 'club'. We just saw that go down, and they are not to be trusted any more than the Dems, imho. While they will 'virtue signal' with votes, they cannot be counted on to hold the line, nor work together. Even the Communists, Homosexuals, Racially charged groups of the left will circle wagons in a common lager for their mutual benefit, but the GOP just invokes the circular firing squad.
The problem there is that the RINO and GOPe wings will do all in their power to sabotage anyone who isn't part of their 'club'. We just saw that go down, and they are not to be trusted any more than the Dems, imho. While they will 'virtue signal' with votes, they cannot be counted on to hold the line, nor work together. Even the Communists, Homosexuals, Racially charged groups of the left will circle wagons in a common lager for their mutual benefit, but the GOP just invokes the circular firing squad.
The two are inseparablein these next two election cycles...22 and 24. Certainly, in 26/28 that will change, but Donald Trump is the MAGA message until after the 2024 election. The establishment/RINO class wants to separate him from that so they can claim his message...realizing they totally missed the boat and misread conservative sentiment in 2016 and 2020. But there is no greater mission for the GOP then to purge that establishment RINO class through the primary process...and then to move forward in a united manner to win back the House/Senate...and then the White House in 2024. But the candidates will either be Trump himself, or Trump supported MAGA candidates...the establishment does not get to "steal/co-opt" MAGA for themselves as many here seem to be advocating.
Trump IS the message to a great extent...because the message is "no more RINO/NT's". The party has to be conservative and it has to NOT be run by the establishment...once we achieve those two goals we can spank the Dems in any election.
Trump was able to commandeer the GOP because it had no singular leader - it was divided among weak, spineless, cowardly President-wannabe Senators. It was ripe for his picking.
You got it backwards. The GOP commandeered Trump. They were able to consolidate their power like never before at the 2016 Convention. And they used that power to wrest control at the State Party level and dump Trump four years later. The very idea of Reince Priebus becoming Trump's chief of staff and being replaced with a Romney should scare the hell out of anyone. Except an AT zealot.
The fact that she's still head of the RNC is very troubling.
The fact that she's still head of the RNC is very troubling.I think its clear enough by now, as the republic is being burned down by the rats, the GOP is concerning itself only with getting back to business as usual. Dumbasses think the rats won't eventually come for all of their sinecures.
I think its clear enough by now, as the republic is being burned down by the rats, the GOP is concerning itself only with getting back to business as usual. Dumbasses think the rats won't eventually come for all of their sinecures.
And very telling.
I think its clear enough by now, as the republic is being burned down by the rats, the GOP is concerning itself only with getting back to business as usual. Dumbasses think the rats won't eventually come for all of their sinecures.
@skeeterTrue enough. But there is a third element - the marxist wing of the rat party. If the DNC thinks they've got that tiger by the tail they are badly miscalculating. It will eat them last.
I think BOTH the DNC and the RNC leadership know EXACTLY what they are doing. They NEED each other to serve as the "arch-villains" to fire up their base every election cycle in order to get them to donate mucho bucks to keep "those dastardly Republicans/Dimocrats from obtaining even more power and turning us all into slaves!"
Without an "evil enemy constantly plotting the destruction of all that is good and decent" to play off of each year,the dweeb voters might get bored and stop contributing money. They MAY even stop giving money and voting for them!
The ying and the yang.
BTW,THAT is why the Dims and the RINO's hate Trump so much. He doesn't play that game,and throws them both to the wolves.
Easy. If Trump runs, vote for him. Hoping like hell the NeverTrumpers don't betray conservatism AGAIN by not voting...voting for 3rd party nitwits with no chance...or god forbid, voting for Biden again. But if they do, its their mess...and the continued loss of our freedoms is their fault. No ifs...no ands...no buts....you people brought us Biden, Harris, Pelosi and the Commie Brigade in power. I'm rather hoping you don't do it again...but expecting the same self centered stupidity to, once again, override your common sense.
Call me a pessimist.
@skeeter
I think BOTH the DNC and the RNC leadership know EXACTLY what they are doing. They NEED each other to serve as the "arch-villains" to fire up their base every election cycle in order to get them to donate mucho bucks to keep "those dastardly Republicans/Dimocrats from obtaining even more power and turning us all into slaves!"
Without an "evil enemy constantly plotting the destruction of all that is good and decent" to play off of each year,the dweeb voters might get bored and stop contributing money. They MAY even stop giving money and voting for them!
The ying and the yang.
BTW,THAT is why the Dims and the RINO's hate Trump so much. He doesn't play that game,and throws them both to the wolves.
Because Trump keeps dropping hints that he may run. If he's not running, he should come out and say it. And while he's at it, if he really cares about healing the damage, he'd FIRST be working quietly behind the scenes to identify a viable replacement candidate for Murkowski, and THEN badmouthing her. Instead what he'll do is just hand the Democrats another Senate seat.
He needs to badmouth every GOP Quisling he can...especially Murkowski and Cheney...suitable candidates are available in both races. And Trump will support whoever that ends up being...its not time to back a horse just yet, let's wait and see what emerges.
Why wasn't the Trump Admin on top of the vote fraud ahead of the election? The fact is, Trump was reactive rather than proactive to literally every problem. And what he did in Georgia, which suppressed GOP voters in the run-off, is simply unforgivable. That one selfish act might by itself be the end of our country.
I commend his sticking with his campaign promises, and his clear love for the country, but in every other way his administration was a complete failure. His only legacy is that he handed the country over to America's enemies.
I agree (as usual) with most of what you say. But I don't think Trump was a good president. I mean he tried, but if you look at what lasting accomplishments he has, there's not much there. It's sad, and you can certainly say much of it wasn't his fault, but in the end the buck stops with the President. He spent his entire Admin on the defensive. Handed the Dems constant ammo on Twitter. Committed hundreds of unforced errors. Threw staff under the bus constantly, leading to a situation where he couldn't find good people willing to work for him.
No question in my mind that the man is a patriot, a good motivational speaker, an entertaining fellow, and that he made a huge sacrifice by running. But he just wasn't very effective as a President, and left things in a place where literally every positive achievement will be undone by the Dems in the first 90 days of Biden's term.
I'm not going to be relaxed over the next few years while the Democrats destroy the country.
QuoteTrue enough. But there is a third element - the marxist wing of the rat party.
Trump was one of the best presidents in American history. Right up there with Lincoln and Washington and Reagan. Except Trump didn't give amnesty to an invading army of illegal aliens.
He accomplished vast things, not the least of which was totally unhinging the Rodents and making them reveal to the public what disgusting animals they and their media hacks truly are.
75 million people voted for Trump, officially, more than any other candidate ever received in an American election.
Wait for it....
It's not contradictory at all. Results matter, not talk and not intentions. I credit Trump with good intentions. His results sucked.
Trump was one of the best presidents in American history. Right up there with Lincoln and Washington and Reagan. Except Trump didn't give amnesty to an invading army of illegal aliens.
He accomplished vast things, not the least of which was totally unhinging the Rodents and making them reveal to the public what disgusting animals they and their media hacks truly are.
75 million people voted for Trump, officially, more than any other candidate ever received in an American election.
Wait for it....
Sure it's about the $$ and getting donations; dangling the proverbial carrot in front of the voters. I quit donating years ago and refuse to put any $$ towards any candidate.
As for Trump, sorry, he's dangling that carrot just as much. He proclaimed no 3rd party and is focusing on GOP candidates in '22 -- nothing more than fundraising. Meanwhile the GOPe and DEMS will make sure that Trump candidates don't have a chance. That's that way I see it.
Same ole same ole and this time the ballot box is completely worthless.
You'd be better off using your $$ to get a fire started.
Yeah, millions of new jobs, energy independence, bringing manufacturing back to the US, no new wars in Idontcarestan, tax cuts, border fence, shifted the balance of the Supreme Court in America's direction, good Kung Flu response, deported Invaders, Hillary isn't president, Rush Limbaugh's Medal of Freedom, NATO paying their fair share, America First, China Last lots and lots of successes, despite the efforts of the terrorists aka the Rodents and RINOs to defeat his agenda.
We need more presidents exactly like him. He even won the 2020 election in a landslide.
I would agree with you that now is a good time to focus on primary-ing RINOs. But I'd like to see that take the form of finding and supporting good alternative candidates instead of driving RINOs even farther towards the Dems by threatening them. Talk softly and carry a big stick versus shoot your mouth off and write checks your butt can't cash.
@libertybele yada,yada,yada. Nobody and nothing is ever going to satisfy you. You will always find SOME reason to condemn them all in your quest for perfection.
Threaten the RINOs with career termination by voting in Americans to be the candidate in the general election.
If the RINOs manages to make it through the primary, ensure his career extinction by deliberately voting for the Rodent to remove the disgusting RINO from office the hard way.
Then in the next cycle, push the primary towards the American and away from the RINO.
Painful, but so is cancer.
People frequently die of cancer, but millions upon millions die if a RINO infestation is not stopped.
@skeeter
There is nothing new about any of this. To simplify it even more,think "Pro Rasslin",with the candidates being the rasslers,and the bankers that pull their strings being the rasslin managers who show up occasionally in order to make things explode and get people too fired up to do anything but react.
Yes, and most of what he did is unfortunately already being undone. As for the SCOTUS; they blinked and are part of the swamp.
What is needed is a viable conservative GOP and a DOJ that isn't corrupt.
Yup.
So the goal must be, in 2021, 2022, and 2023, to eradicate lower level RINOs from state houses and from the House and Senate so the presidential race can show traction before presidential primaries in 2024.
This whole push at this time by the Whiners and RINOs Against Trump (wRAT) is to discredit any American candidate that will try to compete against Jeb! So why are the state elections so important now? The Americans need to regain control of their party or Team wRAT is going to try to rig the primaries for the RINO like they did in 2016. The only reason we can joke about President Hillary is because Trump stopped Jeb! from not needing the voters to get nominated.
Don't forget that was a real thing then, and it still is now. We don't have to worry only about the Rodents stealing the 2024 election, we need to worry about the RINOs behind the scenes stealing the GOP primary in the first place.
There have been a few minor victories scattered here and there, but overall this argument is correct. 2017-18 is a prime example. Republicans controlled the White House and both Houses of Congress. Yet the national debt increased by $2 trillion. And Planned Parenthood received over $1 billion in taxpayer funding - a record amount for any two-year period.
@BassWrangler
You don't understand anything. I wouldn't let him in my house if he came and knocked on the door.
Trump's ego is a HUGE turn-off for me personally,but in THIS particular case,it makes him the perfect candidate for President. His ego is tied to how he goes down in the history books as either a good president or a bum,and nothing is more important to him that how he will be seen by historians in the years to come.
100% agree, but with Trump it's always about him. I love the message, but would like to see a fresh face carrying it forward. From someone who doesn't step on his Johnson on a daily basis.
You got it backwards. The GOP commandeered Trump. They were able to consolidate their power like never before at the 2016 Convention. And they used that power to wrest control at the State Party level and dump Trump four years later. The very idea of Reince Priebus becoming Trump's chief of staff and being replaced with a Romney should scare the hell out of anyone. Except an AT zealot.
True enough. But there is a third element - the marxist wing of the rat party. If the DNC thinks they've got that tiger by the tail they are badly miscalculating. It will eat them last.
Sure it's about the $$ and getting donations; dangling the proverbial carrot in front of the voters. I quit donating years ago and refuse to put any $$ towards any candidate.
As for Trump, sorry, he's dangling that carrot just as much. He proclaimed no 3rd party and is focusing on GOP candidates in '22 -- nothing more than fundraising. Meanwhile the GOPe and DEMS will make sure that Trump candidates don't have a chance. That's that way I see it.
Same ole same ole and this time the ballot box is completely worthless.
You'd be better off using your $$ to get a fire started.
Yes. I'd say he was one of the best Presidents. The Dems/GOPe formed a coup because he didn't march to the beat of their drums.
He was a messenger for 75 million people. I believe his time has come and gone and hopefully we'll see a team of leaders emerge to help those millions work towards restoring this country.
He accomplished almost literally nothing. And cost 20 trillion dollars. More money than anyone, anywhere, in the entire history of mankind.
That's all fine and good but keep in mind that the DEMS control the elections and they are going to seat who they want.
Absolutely the only recourse that we have right now is at the local and state levels. The question and the problem is HOW do we keep elections from being stolen, especially with a bill like HR1???
Damn if I know.
By using the same rules the Rodents play by, of course.
Our dead grandparents used to vote Republican, is there any reason they shouldn't resume the habit?
More to the point, check the voting rolls for dear departed Aunt Emily's cat, and if Fluffy is registered to vote, complain.
Really?
The Rodents since Johnson (the Lyin' Warmongering Bastard Johnson) have spent some thirty trillion on welfare, and accomplished only a captive slave camp of (b)lack voters.
Trump has a wall.
The Rodents and RINOs have spent ten trillion or so on pointless wars in Trashcanistan, and accomplished dead Americans, but no so many as the hundred of billions spent murdering babies in America and abroad.
Trump forced our NATO cling-ons to start paying their fair share of the costs of defending their sorry asses.
Trump stopped Kung Flu infected wetbacks from entering the US. How much did that save us in lives and dollars?
Trump reversed the Kenyan's efforts to impoverish America, how much money did that bring into US households?
Trump made America energy independent, and that cost benefit can hardly be estimated.
Is it Trump's fault he, and America, was betrayed on every level by self-serving traitors who hate America, like the people who still claim he accomplished nothing?
There is no doubt that his accomplishments were phenomenal and that he is one of the greatest presidents in US history.
And since when have people who hate America cared about money wasted, anyway?
?fascist, I’ll buy that.
There is no Marxist wing of the Rodent party.
Outside of the one or two skin tags, and I can't even name one, the entire Rodent Party is pure fascist, which is Marxism on a Orwellian Twenty-Year Hate.
We cannot become like the Dems. We need to put our conservative heads together and come up with solutions.
There is only one solution. Throw ALL the bastards out. Plow the ground. NONE survive the next three elections.
The Tom Clancy book Executive Orders fascinated me. The Vice President resigns. Jack Ryan is chosen as the new VP to be sworn in at a Joint session of Congress attended by the President, his Cabinet, and all nine Supreme Court Justices. Once Ryan is sworn in, he is shuttled out on the rails below, just in time to avoid a Japan Airlines 747 crashing into the Capitol. Roughly 90% of all legislators, cabinet officers, and SCOTUS justices are killed.
Here is a guy who is not a politician and has never run for any public office suddenly becoming President with the opportunity for a complete do-over, and a nation having to elect brand new legislators. Just imagine the possibilities.
The problem with the Republican party is a section of the Republicans will betray Republicans to favor the democrats when ever a crisis or critical vote arrives.
The problem with the Republican Party is that it is no longer a Conservative party. It has become Democrat-lite and too lazy to fight for anything.
The problem with the Republican Party is that it is no longer a Conservative party. It has become Democrat-lite and too lazy to fight for anything.
So now a castrated Republican party is supposed to keep the democrats in check, even though that is nearly impossible. Is a sobriety test needed before posting here or sanity test administered?
Say what?
The RINO's had it all planned out, with extensive polling in the years following the Disaster Commonly Known As Romney. They determined that their next preferred meat-puppet candidate, Jeb! could not win the nomination in any reasonable campaign, so they undertook to change the rules and then game the system. Many state GOP rules moved to "winner takes all" delegate snatches, going to the candidate who got the plurality of the votes. And then they started adding candidates to the national slate until they could reliably predict that Please Give Me The Clap would gain the most votes in enough states to secure the nomination....thus Jeb!'s idiotic public remark that he didn't need votes to get the nomination.
The GOPe had determined by 2015 that they would need 16 candidates on the beginning Republican lineup to foist Jeb! onto the public. . . .
@Sled Dog
The GOPe considers Cruz to be a much bigger threat to them than Trump. Cruz was working feverishly with the grass roots at the State level during the campaign trying to restore Conservatism in the GOP. Trump on the other hand showed zero interest in the intricacies of internal party politics. The GOPe sided with Trump. In exchange, Trump allowed the GOPe to select his delegates. Trump arrived at the convention with enough delegates to give him the nomination, and the GOPe arrived at the convention with enough delegates to reshape the rules in their favor for the next election. At that convention, the Conservative grass roots movement was killed off. Cruz and his appeal for Conservatism was loudly booed by GOPe delegates. And Trump sycophants cheered it on.
After the convention, the GOPe did nothing to help Trump get elected. They would have been perfectly content with a Hillary win since their only objective was killing off grass root Conservatism like they did in Colorado.
By 2020, Trump replaced Cruz as their biggest threat. But now they had complete control at the state level. And it was at the state level that Republicans refused to fight for Trump and election integrity.
@Sled Dog
The GOPe considers Cruz to be a much bigger threat to them than Trump. Cruz was working feverishly with the grass roots at the State level during the campaign trying to restore Conservatism in the GOP. Trump on the other hand showed zero interest in the intricacies of internal party politics. The GOPe sided with Trump. In exchange, Trump allowed the GOPe to select his delegates. Trump arrived at the convention with enough delegates to give him the nomination, and the GOPe arrived at the convention with enough delegates to reshape the rules in their favor for the next election. At that convention, the Conservative grass roots movement was killed off. Cruz and his appeal for Conservatism was loudly booed by GOPe delegates. And Trump sycophants cheered it on.
After the convention, the GOPe did nothing to help Trump get elected. They would have been perfectly content with a Hillary win since their only objective was killing off grass root Conservatism like they did in Colorado.
By 2020, Trump replaced Cruz as their biggest threat. But now they had complete control at the state level. And it was at the state level that Republicans refused to fight for Trump and election integrity.
Trump was one of the best presidents in American history. Right up there with Lincoln and Washington and Reagan. Except Trump didn't give amnesty to an invading army of illegal aliens.:amen: Bears repeating.
He accomplished vast things, not the least of which was totally unhinging the Rodents and making them reveal to the public what disgusting animals they and their media hacks truly are.
75 million people voted for Trump, officially, more than any other candidate ever received in an American election.
Wait for it....
Wait, I thought Trump was going to be inaugurated on March 4, 2021....Trolls like to play numbers & dates. Best to not give them free publicity. I do believe things will happen, but only the good Lord knows when.
Wrong.:patriot: :beer: :patriot:
"Republicans" did not control House or Senate.
The Speaker of the House was RINO Ryan, a disgusting turn-coat who did everything he could to impede American progress.
In the Senate there was that disgusting Turtle as Majority Leader, and, even worse, McStain wasn't dead. McStain is the reason the Senate couldn't repeal that abomination called MessiahCare. McStain stood in the way of Bush's tax cuts back in 2001, if you'll also recall.
So, no, the GOP as the Party of Americans did not control either House or Senate in the 2017-2019 term, the RINOs did and colluded with the socialist terrorists to harm America.
NEVER let a RINO get into office again, even if that means voting for Rodents to stop them. They're filthy disgusting things that vacuum up Rodent droppings like tilapia on a feeding frenzy.
All gone. All of it. Anything that is left will be gone soon enough... As predicted.
20 FRIGGIN TRILLION DOLLARS for a four year pipe dream.
And off you go, with stars in your eyes to do it all over again.
Mark my words.
@roamer_1 he puts up that defense of everything Trump supposedly erased of Obama's...except for the trend of massive spending. Trump outspent Obama when it came to increasing the national debt and the deficit.
@Hoodat
I feel just like I just finished reading a "The Twilight Zone" script.
That's precisely right @txradioguy ... and there ain't no way to argue differently.
:amen: Bears repeating.QuoteSome here talk about his ego, his antics. They don't seem to get that he does these things intentionally, jerking their chains. It's the only way he can get any media coverage and spread his ideas to the masses. It works every single time!
They can't resist! ****hair on fire :dumpster: LOL
I am astounded to see so many not seeing the amazing record of accomplishments.
@dancer @Sled Dog
I'm not. Most people are conditioned to be self-centered cretins whose sole focus is "Me,me,ME,DAMMIT!"
The old "Look out for Number 1!"
It's not that (most of them,anyway) are stupid,it's just what they have been taught to think since they were old enough to walk and talk.
Some people grow out of this,and other's don't. The only thing we can do with the ones that don't is to try to convince them that it is in their own good to live in a free and independent country.
QuoteIt's not about R vs. D. It's about being a sovereign nation/MAGA vs. The Swamp/Global one world government.
Yes,it is,and right now the "bleep YOU,ME FIRST!" mindset of the dependent left is winning.QuoteOnce people realize that, things start to fall into place.
No,first you will have to convince them that a One World Government is not in their best interests.
Politics is astonishingly simple when one only needs to consider a single issue. Everything is cut and dried. :shrug:A single issue, inaccurately framed in a manner convenient to an opinion they already have.
A single issue, inaccurately framed in a manner convenient to an opinion they already have.
Politics is astonishingly simple when one only needs to consider a single issue. Everything is cut and dried. :shrug:
@skeeterThat is my main concern as well, taking the situation and conditions as they are. Keeping in mind the perfect should not be made the enemy of the good.
That IS the way the game is played by the pros that control it.
In FACT,that is the way *I* play it,too. My attempt may be imperfect at times because like everyone else I am in an imperfect person,but MY prime question is always "What is best for the survival of America as a free and independent nation?"
Politics is astonishingly simple when one only needs to consider a single issue. Everything is cut and dried. :shrug:
A single issue, inaccurately framed in a manner convenient to an opinion they already have.
That is my main concern as well, taking the situation and conditions as they are. Keeping in mind the perfect should not be made the enemy of the good.
Reality is a Twilight zone script. THAT DOES EXPLAIN A LOT!
****slapping 22222frying pan ****slapping :yowsa:
Figure out what the never Trumpers are telling you. Defeat Trump and that will make things better,giving the democrats a near one party government, but keep blaming Republicans,giving democrats a pass. We now know how that worked from last election, and the massive bitching that has gone on since. So now they believe people are amazingly too stupid to have learned anything from that, they want Republicans to be to blame for everything until only Democrats rule, failing to learn 1+1=2 keep making the same mistake until 0nly demorats govern. Idiots are supposed to think and believe that's the only way Conservatives can win. The IQ level has dropped significantly! You see the results, you know the results, don't believe them! The cuckoos flew over this nest!
Tea Party bad, the democrats and RINO's can attest to that too! What do they have to do to convince you of the obvious, whose side they are really on?
Nothing inaccurate about it at all. That y'all would vote for ANYONE that signed onto that fiscal debacle is simply an astonishment to me... Such a mindset will justify nearly anything, it seems to me.Another mischaracterization. I care a great deal about the debt, I just have a more realistic view on how we got here, who's responsible and what can be done about it.
This is a HUGE issue - Might have destroyed us all already, and turned our grandchildren into paupers - But still y'all go on, like it never happened at all.
Another mischaracterization. I care a great deal about the debt, I just have a more realistic view on how we got here, who's responsible and what can be done about it.
And I still haven't heard a workable solution to the problem from you.
But when you think about it...the massive spending isn't just a single issue. It affects every aspect of policy making.
That is exactly right, and the very same can be said of every principle thing.
That is exactly right, and the very same can be said of every principle thing.
My boss once asked me to prioritize everything #1, across the board.
Let me clue you in. Ted Cruz would not have cut spending either...nor would he have reduced it in any way. In fact, that is true of every candidate who ran in 2016...including 3rd party candidates. So you are criticizing Trump in particular for having done as any other candidate would have...and that is because there is no support amongst the populace for such cuts at this political moment. I wish that were not the case...and it’s important we fight and try to win the spending argument...but no leader can implement a policy....say, a balanced budget....that would result in the general extinction of his party’s ability to win an election higher than that of dog catcher FOR A GENERATION OR PERHAPS LONGER.thanks @Mesaclone, well said. Would only add this: no leader can walk into the White House and implement a balanced budget policy, period. The system simply will not allow it. It appears we on this board haven’t moved off square one on this subject, and never will.
It will take small steps towards fiscal responsibility...and persuading of the populace over time...to win that argument. One cannot walk into the White House and simply order a balanced budget. Doing so would fail AND would end in the Socialists reigning unchallenged.
Let me clue you in. Ted Cruz would not have cut spending either...nor would he have reduced it in any way. In fact, that is true of every candidate who ran in 2016...including 3rd party candidates.
So you are criticizing Trump in particular for having done as any other candidate would have...and that is because there is no support amongst the populace for such cuts at this political moment.
I wish that were not the case...and it’s important we fight and try to win the spending argument...but no leader can implement a policy....say, a balanced budget....that would result in the general extinction of his party’s ability to win an election higher than that of dog catcher FOR A GENERATION OR PERHAPS LONGER.
It will take small steps towards fiscal responsibility...and persuading of the populace over time...to win that argument. One cannot walk into the White House and simply order a balanced budget. Doing so would fail AND would end in the Socialists reigning unchallenged.
thanks @Mesaclone, well said. Would only add this: no leader can walk into the White House and implement a balanced budget policy, period. The system simply will not allow it. It appears we on this board haven’t moved off square one on this subject, and never will.
Then simply quit calling what y'all do Conservatism.Alright. Frankly I don’t care what it’s called.
Because it is not.
Alright. Frankly I don’t care what it’s called.
We have to operate in the world as it is. Will it all come crashing down eventually? Definitely yes. Will the route you offer lead to salvation? Definitely no. Because it is not possible, given reality.
And I think you know it’s true.
In the meantime I will do what little there is within my pitiful means to preserve the nation I grew up in and love for as long as possible.
Yes. I'd say he was one of the best Presidents. The Dems/GOPe formed a coup because he didn't march to the beat of their drums.
He was a messenger for 75 million people. I believe his time has come and gone and hopefully we'll see a team of leaders emerge to help those millions work towards restoring this country.
thanks @Mesaclone, well said. Would only add this: no leader can walk into the White House and implement a balanced budget policy, period. The system simply will not allow it. It appears we on this board haven’t moved off square one on this subject, and never will.
We cannot become like the Dems. We need to put our conservative heads together and come up with solutions.
All gone. All of it. Anything that is left will be gone soon enough... As predicted.
20 FRIGGIN TRILLION DOLLARS for a four year pipe dream.
And off you go, with stars in your eyes to do it all over again.
Mark my words.
The problem with the Republican Party is that it is no longer a Conservative party. It has become Democrat-lite and too lazy to fight for anything.
It has been castrated for decades.
@roamer_1 he puts up that defense of everything Trump supposedly erased of Obama's...except for the trend of massive spending. Trump outspent Obama when it came to increasing the national debt and the deficit.
Right. Because it's not workable or realistic to require Republicans to STOP SPENDING MONEY and put forward balanced budgets that reduce the size and reach of government... You know... That sh*t you're supposed to be standing for...
This is not just failing to reduce the size of government... kinda missing and spending a few hundred billion more than they should have... This is friggin spending WORSE than Democrats with the knobs all the way to the wood.
They need to go. ALL of them. That y'all aren't SEETHING at this blatant disregard of basic fiscal sense - And the impact it will have on your very own pocketbooks... And MORE THAN THAT, willing to vote for MORE. There is a terrible, terrible reckoning coming. And y'all are on the wrong side of it.
thanks @Mesaclone, well said. Would only add this: no leader can walk into the White House and implement a balanced budget policy, period. The system simply will not allow it. It appears we on this board haven’t moved off square one on this subject, and never will.
No, I do not think that's true, or I would not be fighting for Conservatism.
Let me clue you in. Ted Cruz would not have cut spending either...nor would he have reduced it in any way. In fact, that is true of every candidate who ran in 2016...including 3rd party candidates. So you are criticizing Trump in particular for having done as any other candidate would have...and that is because there is no support amongst the populace for such cuts at this political moment. I wish that were not the case...and it’s important we fight and try to win the spending argument...but no leader can implement a policy....say, a balanced budget....that would result in the general extinction of his party’s ability to win an election higher than that of dog catcher FOR A GENERATION OR PERHAPS LONGER.
It will take small steps towards fiscal responsibility...and persuading of the populace over time...to win that argument. One cannot walk into the White House and simply order a balanced budget. Doing so would fail AND would end in the Socialists reigning unchallenged.
Absolutely agree, but WTH do you mean, "We", Kemosabe??
Yet, I find it fascinating that the most prolific poster on this thread boasts that they refuse to participate, claiming it's "not my circus...not my monkeys, etc..".
Let me clue you in. Ted Cruz would not have cut spending either...nor would he have reduced it in any way. In fact, that is true of every candidate who ran in 2016...including 3rd party candidates. So you are criticizing Trump in particular for having done as any other candidate would have...and that is because there is no support amongst the populace for such cuts at this political moment. I wish that were not the case...and it’s important we fight and try to win the spending argument...but no leader can implement a policy....say, a balanced budget....that would result in the general extinction of his party’s ability to win an election higher than that of dog catcher FOR A GENERATION OR PERHAPS LONGER.
It will take small steps towards fiscal responsibility...and persuading of the populace over time...to win that argument. One cannot walk into the White House and simply order a balanced budget. Doing so would fail AND would end in the Socialists reigning unchallenged.
Square One on the spending issue is simple to state and almost impossible to enact.If he had the line item veto then calling it “trumps debt†would make some sense.
Ratify a Line Item Veto Amendment to the Constitution. The President can line out any spending item on any bill and the Congress can only override that line-item veto with a 2/3 vote in both Chambers.
This would have to be implemented by an Article V Convention of the States because Congress absolutely would not allow it otherwise.
Square Two would be a Balanced Budget Amendment that requires a 2/3 vote from both Houses to raise any federal tax (or "fee/fine/fo/fum" whatever else that Giant **** Roberts wants to call it).
@Hoodat
I feel just like I just finished reading a "The Twilight Zone" script.
@sneakypete - or one of those alternate realities books.
But when you think about it...the massive spending isn't just a single issue. It affects every aspect of policy making.
#1 It is imperative that we seat conservatives at the local and state level.
#2 Having Ronna continue on as the RNC chairwoman is a huge mistake. She absolutely failed and we don't need her uncle RINO running.
#3 We must demand that McConnell step down. He continues to do more harm to the party than good.
#4 Stop voting for RINO's and vote for conservatives only!
Another mischaracterization. I care a great deal about the debt, I just have a more realistic view on how we got here, who's responsible and what can be done about it.@roamer_1
And I still haven't heard a workable solution to the problem from you.
My boss once asked me to prioritize everything #1, across the board.
@roamer_1I know you're grinning when you say that.
@skeeter
You mean,of course,other than shriek like a woman,thrown both hands up in the air,and run hide in the woods?
Square One on the spending issue is simple to state and almost impossible to enact.
Ratify a Line Item Veto Amendment to the Constitution. The President can line out any spending item on any bill and the Congress can only override that line-item veto with a 2/3 vote in both Chambers.
This would have to be implemented by an Article V Convention of the States because Congress absolutely would not allow it otherwise.
Square Two would be a Balanced Budget Amendment that requires a 2/3 vote from both Houses to raise any federal tax (or "fee/fine/fo/fum" whatever else that Giant **** Roberts wants to call it).
The RNC has gotten the rules changes it needed in 2016 and 2020 to ensure that they alone get to choose who runs at the state and local levels.Your analysis is interesting and credible. In hindsight it is amazing Trump, or any non-insider, managed to pull it off in 2016. All things considered - all the mistakes he made - I'm still very glad he did.
McDaniel was unanimously re-elected just two days after the electoral vote certifying Trump's defeat was accepted by Congress and control of the Senate reverted to the hardline communists. Her tenure has seen control of both houses of Congress and the White House ceded over to the Democrats. If there was ever a time for an RNC Chair to step down, this was it. But all the RNC cares about is their own control over the GOP.
McConnell was on his way out in 2014, only to be saved at the 11th hour by Donald Trump. The favor was repeated again in 2020. The fault here lies with Trump himself. He still hasn't learned that the RNC could care less about who controls Washington. All they care about is who controls the RNC. Cruz was half way there to getting them all booted in 2016. Trump rescued them.
That is tough to do at this point considering that it's the RNC and their patsies at the state level that are giving us our candidates. I haven't seen a Conservative Republican win the nomination in my Congressional district in over a decade. And because of that, it has been held by a Democrat for the last two cycles. And will be held for at least the next six because the State GOP will select the candidate that is loyal to them with zero regard for the people of this district. I had to endure over a decade of that Paul Ryan proxy Tom Price, followed by two years of that lazy POS Karen Handel. Now I am represented by a Dem who lives in Tennessee. And both the RNC and the state GOP are perfectly OK with that.
Trump was naive. He sided with the wrong folks. And he got burned. Bigtime. Just like we the people have been getting burned for decades.
To hell with the GOP.
@sneakypete - or one of those alternate realities books.
@sneakypete @BassWranglerQuoteWere you two not paying attention during the primary season?
Can't speak for BassWrangler,but I sure thought I was paying attention.QuoteDo you not remember how many delegates bound to vote Trump on the first ballot were going to turn on Trump if it ever went to a second ballot?
Truthfully,no,I don't. Chemo brain. I THINK I am getting a little better now,but who am *I* to judge this?QuoteThis would never have been a possibility if Trump had gotten involved at the state level and put his own people in those positions. But he simply didn't know enough about the intricacies of inner GOP politics.
I agree with the premise,but am willing to cut him a little slack when it comes to being unprepared. After all,he had never been elected to ANYTHING in his life before,so he was the new guy,and he had no choice but to trust SOME of the life-long pols. Face it,the job is just too damn complex for anyone to try to balance all the balls in the air at one given time by themselves.
My theory is that when he is sworn in on 2024 he will be a lot MORE experienced than the Donald Trump of 2016 and a HELL of a lot less trusting.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/04/11/more-republican-delegates-chosen-more-problems-for-trump/QuoteMichigan was especially poignant when Trump teamed up with Mr. Establishment himself John Kasich to block Cruz from seating any delegates for deciding rules changes. For Kasich and his GOPe surrogates, blocking Cruz took precedent over blocking Trump.
I would love to try to claim I am unbiased on that issue,but the truth is I have never trusted Cruz any further than I could throw him. There is just something about him that flat creeps me out. Damn shame,too,because I think he just MIGHT be the smartest man in the US Senate. One thing is for certain,he damn sure ain't the fool a lot of them are.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/04/10/michs-kasich-trump-delegates-block-cruzs-camp/82857496/QuoteThe payoff was settled once Trump took office and chose his Chief of Staff - Reince Priebus. Each and every example of this war on Cruz was pointed out again and again and again on this board. So don't plead ignorance now. The record speaks for itself. Trump had one goal and one goal only - getting the nomination at any cost.
Going to have to start calling you "Captain Obvious if you keep that up.
QuoteCruz on the other hand was fighting for the heart and soul of the party.
In MY not so humble opinion,Cruz was fighting for his own survival,nothing more,nothing less.
As he will be once again,and maybe even more so given all the illegal aliens that will be voting in Texas this time. Even before this he was sorta having to walk a tight rope.
If he is not lucky this time,he will find himself as maybe the smartest lobbyist that money can buy in DC.
Square One on the spending issue is simple to state and almost impossible to enact.
I know you're grinning when you say that.
It is actually quite easy to enact. The President does not have to spend money that Congress appropriates. That is a key tenet of the Executive Branch.
I agree with the premise,but am willing to cut him a little slack when it comes to being unprepared. After all,he had never been elected to ANYTHING in his life before,so he was the new guy,and he had no choice but to trust SOME of the life-long pols. Face it,the job is just too damn complex for anyone to try to balance all the balls in the air at one given time by themselves.
My theory is that when he is sworn in on 2024 he will be a lot MORE experienced than the Donald Trump of 2016 and a HELL of a lot less trusting.
@Hoodat
Maybe TECHNICALLY,but what happens when a President refusing to sign the budget?
What we need are PRACTICAL suggestions and solutions.
.. And Mussolini made the trains run on time. :whistle:
First do no harm... Do no harm against truth, against principle, and maybe you have an argument. But flagrant abuse is another thing altogether.
Your analysis is interesting and credible. In hindsight it is amazing Trump, or any non-insider, managed to pull it off in 2016. All things considered - all the mistakes he made - I'm still very glad he did.
It will be interesting to see which way he goes now, being the most influential figure in the party. Play ball with the insiders, take a shot at actually reforming the party or just fade away. Does it even matter.
@HoodatQuoteIf he refuses to sign, then it becomes law after ten days.
My apologies. I was mistakenly thinking it meant the government would shut down. Since this doesn't cause government shutdowns,please remind me what does.QuoteWhat I am suggesting is practical. It requires nothing from Congress.
Then they should LOVE that. It's what they do best.QuoteIt is perfectly Constitutional and completely within the confines of Executive Power. If Congress appropriates $31.7 billion for the Department of Energy in a fiscal year, it does not mean that the President has to spend all $31.7 billion. It is entirely within his discretion to spend the money thus appropriated. If he only spends $21.7 billion, then $10 billion remains in the Treasury unspent when the fiscal year is over. And there isn't a damn thing Congress can do about it.
Maybe,but I would like to be the first to suggest mass suicide.
He's met with McCarthy and made comments about getting people elected in '22. McCarthy is an insider which doesn't set well with me.
My apologies. I was mistakenly thinking it meant the government would shut down. Since this doesn't cause government shutdowns,please remind me what does.
QuoteThe main thing the 2024 Trump is missing at this point is humility.
@Hoodat
I couldn't possible disagree more strongly. That IS the one thing that drives the professional pols BatBush crazy! Oh,it's ok for him to accept a little personal humility as long as he keeps it secret,but why throw away one of his most powerful tools to make them come unglued?QuoteHe needs to recognize his mistakes,
I think he has,but he will never admit it in public. Well,maybe after he retires from business and writes his "tell all book".Quotedevelop a grass roots movement at the State level nationwide, and overturn the GOP structure.
I could easily be wrong because I don't follow him or anyone else on a daily basis,but I kinda got the feeling that is exactly what he is working on right now. Not that he is going to tell ANYBODY what his plans are. He likes to keep his enemies off-balance.
Gee, the Rodents just blew 10% of that in less than a month, and less than 10% of that actually went to help people's problems with the Political Flu that swept the nation last year.
What ARE you crying about?
The GOP is the Heaven's Gate of US politics. It castrates itself for fear of getting power and doing good for the nation and the world.
Aren't going to get a balanced budget until the Republicans gain control of House and Senate...real Americans, not RINOs.
Don't blame Trump for that, the US hasn't had an American Congress in our lifetimes.
How much did you do to help re-elect President Trump and defeat the Rodents and RINOs?
I acknowledge that you may not have been able to do much...I live in Hatefilled Haridan Maxine's district and my vote hasn't put a Republican in office since 1996 (?). But I support the American Majority of the GOP and recognize that Trump did the very best ANYONE could have done in similar circumstances.
Given that no one could have done more for America than Trump did, what exactly is your emotional problem with him? He tweeted mean things? That bugging you?
He signed budgets, which were necessary to advance his agenda items, even though they were loaded with pork that the President is powerless to excise?
What's your stance on the Line Item Veto?
Trump was only one man...the ONLY time in US history when the President was ONLY ONE MAN. Every other president had a team helping him advance his goals.
Trump was a citizen, not a politician.
Should we have elected Jeb! because he was a politician, even though he didn't need our votes?
Why are you crying so much? The people that supported him aren't crying as much as you are. We are trying instead to find roads to success.
What is your road to success, besides surrendering and letting the Rodents win forever and ever and ever?
Right.
Surrendering isn't an option for the real Americans.
But you're not fighting for conservatism.
Nobody here can quite figure out what it is you want, but whatever that might be, you're not going to get a stronger and healthier America on the path you're traveling.
That much is obvious. Right now you're helping the enemy.
@txradioguy
It also effects EVERY aspect of our private lives because it is OUR money the government takes away from us to fund it all.
The RNC has gotten the rules changes it needed in 2016 and 2020 to ensure that they alone get to choose who runs at the state and local levels.
McDaniel was unanimously re-elected just two days after the electoral vote certifying Trump's defeat was accepted by Congress and control of the Senate reverted to the hardline communists. Her tenure has seen control of both houses of Congress and the White House ceded over to the Democrats. If there was ever a time for an RNC Chair to step down, this was it. But all the RNC cares about is their own control over the GOP.
McConnell was on his way out in 2014, only to be saved at the 11th hour by Donald Trump. The favor was repeated again in 2020. The fault here lies with Trump himself. He still hasn't learned that the RNC could care less about who controls Washington. All they care about is who controls the RNC. Cruz was half way there to getting them all booted in 2016. Trump rescued them.
That is tough to do at this point considering that it's the RNC and their patsies at the state level that are giving us our candidates. I haven't seen a Conservative Republican win the nomination in my Congressional district in over a decade. And because of that, it has been held by a Democrat for the last two cycles. And will be held for at least the next six because the State GOP will select the candidate that is loyal to them with zero regard for the people of this district. I had to endure over a decade of that Paul Ryan proxy Tom Price, followed by two years of that lazy POS Karen Handel. Now I am represented by a Dem who lives in Tennessee. And both the RNC and the state GOP are perfectly OK with that.
Trump was naive. He sided with the wrong folks. And he got burned. Bigtime. Just like we the people have been getting burned for decades.
To hell with the GOP.
If the President vetoes the budget and the House and Senate fail to override that veto, the federal government would no longer be able to spend money it didn't have. Personally, I strongly favor this approach. But our government is filled with cowards at every level.
Throw ALL the bastards out. All of em. Across several elections. That'll fix it.To do that we need to eliminate election fraud as much as possible. Why would the GOP be so slow to fight Fraud in elections? :shrug: You tell me... :whistle:
To do that we need to eliminate election fraud as much as possible. Why would the GOP be so slow to fight Fraud in elections? :shrug: You tell me... :whistle:
He accomplished almost literally nothing. And cost 20 trillion dollars. More money than anyone, anywhere, in the entire history of mankind.I thought I heard Queen Nancy and her White House vassal singing "Hold My beer..."
There is only one solution. Throw ALL the bastards out. Plow the ground. NONE survive the next three elections.You're right, of course. It is folly to continue to pursue the GOP because at the top, and in most of the places that matter it is thoroughly corrupt. If the past 4 years didn't hammer that point home, I don't know what will, maybe another 40 or 50 years of hitting that same button and getting the same results (as if there will even be a USA by then).
None survive without balanced budgets.
None survive without massive spending reductions.
None survive that appease or entertain liberalism in the slightest way.
None survive that seek to consolidate power in the fed, that refuse to turn power back to the States.
None survive that try to amend morality to acommodate liberal views or social justice bullcrap.
What will fix it -The ONLY thing that will fix it - Is pure, unadulterated, un-hyphenated
CONSERVATISM. And that from an entire machine - A whole party... Nothing else will do.
But still Republicans will compromise and accuse me of purism. And go chasing after shiny things and candy thrown from the front of the parade.
I know. I have seen it over and over and over again. For decades.
But it is down to the wire now. It may not be fixable.
But the only way we have is for all y'all to grow a pair and defend Conservatism.
I thought I heard Queen Nancy and her White House vassal singing "Hold My beer..."
TWENTY FRIGGIN TRILLION DOLLARS. And y'all will vote for more. There ain't a damn thing 'good for America' in that at all. That is our very DOOM.How much of that twenty trillion was siphoned off into the coffers of this country's enemies, foreign and domestic? Very little went to The People, and that was what the whole scam was sold on. A lot of the responsibility for that belongs with the GOP in Congress, who likely lined their pockets, too.
You're right, of course. It is folly to continue to pursue the GOP because at the top, and in most of the places that matter it is thoroughly corrupt. If the past 4 years didn't hammer that point home, I don't know what will, maybe another 40 or 50 years of hitting that same button and getting the same results (as if there will even be a USA by then).
The last time the GOP was a "conservative" party was under Lincoln, and then it's agenda was seriously radical, that of abolition, which Lincoln did not embrace.Conservative my ass. Lincoln routinely violated the Constitution, suspended Habeas Corpus, suborned the invasion of my state of birth by armies from other states (that's what a Militia was defined as, at the time, an army), and continued with other unconstitutional acts as well.
The GOP wasn't conservative under Reagan, he had that damned RINO Bush as his VP and that clown acted immediately to shut down Reagan's conservative gains once Bush took the White House.
The GOP is the Heaven's Gate of US politics. It castrates itself for fear of getting power and doing good for the nation and the world.Yeah, and it's waiting to ride the UFO in the tail of the comet, too.
How much of that twenty trillion was siphoned off into the coffers of this country's enemies, foreign and domestic? Very little went to The People, and that was what the whole scam was sold on. A lot of the responsibility for that belongs with the GOP in Congress, who likely lined their pockets, too.
If he refuses to sign, then it becomes law after ten days. But that has no bearing on what I am suggesting.That's practical, in theory. Like most theories, they work fine in theory.
What I am suggesting is practical. It requires nothing from Congress. It is perfectly Constitutional and completely within the confines of Executive Power. If Congress appropriates $31.7 billion for the Department of Energy in a fiscal year, it does not mean that the President has to spend all $31.7 billion. It is entirely within his discretion to spend the money thus appropriated. If he only spends $21.7 billion, then $10 billion remains in the Treasury unspent when the fiscal year is over. And there isn't a damn thing Congress can do about it.
Oh, I don't know... They can spend, say, $15T ... and still claim to be the frugal ones... There's no downside in that,as Republicans already know.The only thing holding them back is Biden's writer's cramp.
The main thing the 2024 Trump is missing at this point is humility.
It is actually quite easy to enact. The President does not have to spend money that Congress appropriates. That is a key tenet of the Executive Branch.
And they will continue... Until they bleed us dry and all that's left is Venezuela. Many here don't know it, but that is where we are certainly going, and that only because there is no opposition.
And they will vote for candy from the front of the parade, and the other side will vote for government largess, and in the end, the end will come crashing in on all Americans - A generation of servitude and other people eating the work of their hands, and taking their women and children.
It is surely coming to a land that has no god and has no morals, and has no ability to stop its addictions... offering *no* resistance.
Your analysis is interesting and credible. In hindsight it is amazing Trump, or any non-insider, managed to pull it off in 2016. All things considered - all the mistakes he made - I'm still very glad he did.
It will be interesting to see which way he goes now, being the most influential figure in the party. Play ball with the insiders, take a shot at actually reforming the party or just fade away. Does it even matter.
He's met with McCarthy and made comments about getting people elected in '22. McCarthy is an insider which doesn't set well with me. I think we'll see Trump fade away within the next couple of months. He has to realize that trying to win when nothing has changed is futile. If he stays in..it boils down to keeping the GOP money machine going. I personally am not interested.
He's Superman, not Clark Kent.
The people revolted against the revolting line-up and just LOVED Trump, because Trump was the first, and only, candidate in 28 years who FOUGHT BACK. And that's why the Americans still love their president and gave him his second term in 2020.
If he runs in 2024, he'll get a third term, too.
He's not going to coddle the RINO insiders who have spent their careers betraying everyone who voted for them.
But Trump has decided to starve the GOP RINO Financing Operation by setting up his own PAC and bypassing the RINO Funding goons...both taking their money away from them and then letting the money out to (hopefully) non-RINO candidates.
The GOP is not happy about this.
You're right, of course. It is folly to continue to pursue the GOP because at the top, and in most of the places that matter it is thoroughly corrupt. If the past 4 years didn't hammer that point home, I don't know what will, maybe another 40 or 50 years of hitting that same button and getting the same results (as if there will even be a USA by then).
@Sled Dog
That means it is a GOOD thing.
ROTFLMAO!!!
Sorry pal... But this post is primary evidence that there's a sucker born every day.
happy77
Yes.
He's absolutely right. He should take his principles, and, with the other five people who agree with him, set up his own political party to fight the Giants.
Of course, maybe he should look to the history of what third parties accomplish before he runs away with his sorry little principles, but people like that can't be bothered with reality.
Reality is such a bore. Reality says if those people with all their pretty principles do what they want to do, run away and hide in a corner, they can't accomplish what they want to accomplish. Reality is most definitely not a friendly lady.
But rather than whining all the time about their missing principles, as if their betters don't have a stronger set of principles themselves, why don't they run along and set up that third party and stop crying in public? Nobody cares about what useless people standing on stainless steel soapboxes do or say or feel. After a very short while they're just a bothersome annoyance and in the way of constructive discussion and action.
MY principle says America can't be healed until the Americans win reliably at the ballot box and start cleaning up the country. Reagan was only the first step, and the RINOs undid what he accomplished in one term. Trump was the second step, and the RINO and Principled Whiners have succeeded in dissolving Trump's accomplishments in six weeks.
Which means we're supposed to give up and cry, according to the Principled Whiners.
According to the Americans, it means we have to fight harder.
But, go ahead, let your tears flow if it makes you happy.
He's met with McCarthy and made comments about getting people elected in '22. McCarthy is an insider which doesn't set well with me. I
McCarthy's also the Minority Leader in the House @libertybele But I wouldn't worry about the meeting. What jumped out at me from the photo released from the meeting is for the first time Trump's signature "thumbs up" is missing. I'm guessing they are not on the same page.
(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/210128171847-trump-kevin-mccarthy-meeting-florida-super-169.jpg)
FWIW, Trump's meeting with lots and lots of folks down at Mar a Lago. Just last weekend he met with Gov. Noem.
McCarthy's also the Minority Leader in the House @libertybele But I wouldn't worry about the meeting. What jumped out at me from the photo released from the meeting is for the first time Trump's signature "thumbs up" is missing. I'm guessing they are not on the same page.
(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/210128171847-trump-kevin-mccarthy-meeting-florida-super-169.jpg)
FWIW, Trump's meeting with lots and lots of folks down at Mar a Lago. Just last weekend he met with Gov. Noem.
And Nikki Haley was told to go pound sand. That gets my thumbs up.
Principles are TRUE things. Things proven over and over and over again, ...
I don't know if we call these "principles", but in the political arena these things have been proven over and over and over again:
* A majority of voters will choose the side giving away the free stuff they think they need,
* A majority of voters want government to stay out of everyone's bedroom,
* A majority of women voters believe "my body, my choice",
* A plurality of women voters will accept assistance from the government in raising their children,
* A majority of voters want to be thought of as socially compassionate, empathetic and forward thinking,
* A growing plurality of voters believe global warming is a genuine threat
How do you reconcile your principles with these pointing-up ?
I don't have to reconcile them. Am I to support fairy tales? I don't give a single crap what people think. ...
Okay ... and thanks for confirming you're playing preacher man, and your input has zero to do with a discussion on politics or political strategy. This is a little odd in the Politics Forum --- maybe you should start a petition for an All Things Religion Forum.
What political strategy is 'winning' for conservatism that entertains liberal nonsense? The two are antithetical.
You're preaching eternal principles, not political ones; and political principles/strategies are the cornerstone of a Politics Forum. Please, talk with the powers that be about getting your own section of the site for your religious musings. I'm sure you'll encourage lively debate there on eternal/religious principles.
Of course, maybe he should look to the history of what third parties accomplish before he runs away with his sorry little principles, but people like that can't be bothered with reality.
Reality is such a bore. Reality says if those people with all their pretty principles do what they want to do, run away and hide in a corner, they can't accomplish what they want to accomplish. Reality is most definitely not a friendly lady.
But rather than whining all the time about their missing principles, as if their betters don't have a stronger set of principles themselves, why don't they run along and set up that third party and stop crying in public? Nobody cares about what useless people standing on stainless steel soapboxes do or say or feel. After a very short while they're just a bothersome annoyance and in the way of constructive discussion and action.
Okay ... and thanks for confirming you're playing preacher man, and your input has zero to do with a discussion on politics or political strategy. This is a little odd in the Politics Forum --- maybe you should start a petition for an All Things Religion Forum.
In fact, there are many here who know exactly where I am coming from... And agree.
Count me among those, @roamer_1
Forgive me for being a romantic though. I am still holding out for that face-to-face meeting with John Galt before checking out. Either that, or seeing Ellis Wyatt torch his oil fields. In either event, I'll be heading to Roamer's Gulch afterwards starting a new career.
All the things from that list are destroying the country. And your answer is to climb on board and step on the gas. Maybe you should start a petition for a Democrat-Lite forum.
This is the exact same speech the GOPe has been feeding me my whole life. It is the same speech they fed Reagan in 1976 and tried to feed him in 1980. It is the same speech given by those who gave us George HW Bush, Bob Dole, John McCain, and Mitt Romney. It was the one given to George W. Bush in 2006 when he tried to privatize Social Security. And now we have to hear it again from you.
The whole point of Conservatism as it touches politics is to support each-the-other between the Conservative political factions...
And prerequisite in that support are their closely held principles, which unarguably intertwine - Those true things are what we are all supposed to be fighting for and defending.
All the things from that list are destroying the country. And your answer is to climb on board and step on the gas. Maybe you should start a petition for a Democrat-Lite forum.
Exactly right. But that's 'fighting liberalism' somehow... :shrug: :whistle: :laugh:
I truly don't understand what you mean by this --- but I'd like to. @roamer_1 .
When a conservative enters the political arena victory requires from them what it requires from a liberal candidate**: Convince enough people that deeply held principles do, indeed, intertwine between he or she and the voter.
As I posted above, these six "principles" are deeply held by an increasing number of Americans:
> A growing plurality of voters will choose the side giving away the free stuff they think they need,
> A majority of voters want government to stay out of everyone's bedroom,
> A majority of women voters believe "my body, my choice",
> A plurality of women voters will accept assistance from the government in raising their children,
> A majority of voters want to be thought of as socially compassionate, empathetic and forward thinking,
> A growing plurality of voters believe global warming is a genuine threat
If you're a conservative candidate for national office, where is your intersect with pointing-up these principles and the American voters who hold them?
** Before the 2020 election fraud and codifying it through 2021 HR1.
Exactly wrong. But throw another Emoji on the barbe .... I'm sure that'll be helpful.
No, not at all @Hoodat I'm trying very hard to force someone, anyone, to think strategically. We can't write off 1/2 the country because we assume they're dead to us. (Well, not if we really want to win an election)
Yes.Reality is, literally, what we make it. The GOP replaced the Whigs and were a new party. The Whigs went, well, the way of the Whigs. This can happen again if enough people will stop the tired practice of not doing it because "it can't be done". Argue for your limitations, and sure as shit, they're yours.
He's absolutely right. He should take his principles, and, with the other five people who agree with him, set up his own political party to fight the Giants.
Of course, maybe he should look to the history of what third parties accomplish before he runs away with his sorry little principles, but people like that can't be bothered with reality.
Reality is such a bore. Reality says if those people with all their pretty principles do what they want to do, run away and hide in a corner, they can't accomplish what they want to accomplish. Reality is most definitely not a friendly lady.
But rather than whining all the time about their missing principles, as if their betters don't have a stronger set of principles themselves, why don't they run along and set up that third party and stop crying in public? Nobody cares about what useless people standing on stainless steel soapboxes do or say or feel. After a very short while they're just a bothersome annoyance and in the way of constructive discussion and action.
MY principle says America can't be healed until the Americans win reliably at the ballot box and start cleaning up the country. Reagan was only the first step, and the RINOs undid what he accomplished in one term. Trump was the second step, and the RINO and Principled Whiners have succeeded in dissolving Trump's accomplishments in six weeks.
Which means we're supposed to give up and cry, according to the Principled Whiners.
According to the Americans, it means we have to fight harder.
But, go ahead, let your tears flow if it makes you happy.
Fiscal conservatism,
Defense and foreign policy conservatism, wherein manifest destiny resides... The idea of a strong defense and the projection of that defense as it interacts with foreign policy and trade. .
And finally, the Christian Right - social conservatives, whose principles parallel the Judeo-Christian Ethic. What goes against God - Specifically Jehovah and/or Jesus Christ - Goes against them too. They will defend Biblical precepts in the political realm, and care more about moral matters than any other.
Those are the factions of Conservatism - And the whole of political Conservatism is to defend and support those factions, promoting all of their unmovable principles. That is what it is *FOR*, and that is what it supports and promotes. IF it is NOT THAT, it is not Conservatism. PERIOD.
So you think you are going to get liberals to vote for you... How quaint ...
No, not at all @Hoodat I'm trying very hard to force someone, anyone, to think strategically. We can't write off 1/2 the country because we assume they're dead to us. (Well, not if we really want to win an election)
What do we do with these folks: ?
> A growing plurality of voters will choose the side giving away the free stuff they think they need,
> A majority of voters want government to stay out of everyone's bedroom,
> A majority of women voters believe "my body, my choice",
> A plurality of women voters will accept assistance from the government in raising their children,
> A majority of voters want to be thought of as socially compassionate, empathetic and forward thinking,
> A growing plurality of voters believe global warming is a genuine threat
If you're a conservative candidate for national office, where is your intersect with pointing-up these principles and the American voters who hold them?
We better come up with a plan, and soon. (Hint: Where does DJT intersect with 75+ million Americans?)
I'm trying very hard to force someone, anyone, to think strategically. We can't write off 1/2 the country because we assume they're dead to us. (Well, not if we really want to win an election)
No one's arguing or debating this pillar of conservatism .. at least none here. My question remains the same: how does a conservative candidate for national office convince Americans of this virtue and articulate a plan that does not frighten the bejeezus out of them?
And, don't tell me, again, this is not important. This is paramount!
This is a problem for conservative candidates; in fact it is THE problem. It's what gives birth to the conservatives' reputation for preaching, intrusion and sanctimony that puts off those who support the first two pillars of conservatism.
Conservatives need to find a way to respect a woman's belief that it's her body her choice.
Want to save babies from abortion? Find a way to help the (often indigent or teenage) pregnant woman --- even if you have to spend a couple of bucks. Ease adoption. Stop proclaiming conservatives are going to take away choice --- start proving conservatives are going to give pregnant women real choice, and it's not going to cost her a thing.
I don't know what conservatives do with gay marriage, gender reassignment, etc. since they're already here. We can back communities -- not unions, not the states, not the federal government --- setting agendas (and presenters) for story time for toddlers and preschoolers, sex education in school. Promote ending sex parades for any reason, including gay pride. Back and promote the end of sex change procedures, of any kind, before the age of 18. Promote stopping the asinine 300 genders. I'm sure there's a deep pocket of voters who would jump on this!
The only thing that separates you and me is I'm trying to find a way to help conservatives win; while you'd be happy losing as long your principles never take a shower or change clothes.
I'm not running for office, but other conservatives do. There's nothing quaint about knowing a conservative cannot win a national election with votes from only conservatives. It's smart. And the best candidates act accordingly.
A lot of excellently crafted sentences in your post pointing-up @Smokin JoeWe do not have the ability to force anyone to be responsible. There are no political solutions to cultural problems.
But not one that answers the question you're responding to:
Care to take a crack at a few more sentences?
I notice you quietly threw libertarianism right under the bus, right off the bat - Which is where your originalist judges belong.
Here's your angle: We ain't got the damn money. It ain't right to spend other peoples' money, especially not our grandchildrens'. And it is that simple. The Conservative position is that you will do better with your own money in your own pocket, and you are the best to captain your own freedom.
No. we do not. She made her choice when her knees came apart. It is not her body that is at question. It is the child's body that is to be murdered. The woman is due for nothing more than a 9 month consequence. The baby will be murdered.
The real choice is not to partake. Everything after that bears a consequence. The real choice is to remain virgin, don't hand it out like candy, and get married. THEN participate. And if you miss, get married.
The ONLY way forward is to admit that sex is not merely transactional. There are real consequences, and you MUST reap those consequences. That is the truth. Anything other than that adds to the problem, which is that sluts bear bastards, and there is no way around that except to discourage sluts and bastards - and make the father marry. Shotgun weddings. That fixed it for thousands of years, and the only other way there IS is government welfare, which reduces a woman and her offspring to chattel.
The easy way around it is the one that has worked since ancient days. It is the ONLY way.
Seriously, you're taking umbrage with me moving originalist judges from "libertarian" to "conservative"? Seriously? Wow, I'm starting to see why your living with a horse is a pretty smart move. Any arrangement with another human you'd never get a moment's peace. :laugh:This is why the GOP will not succeed. Lost in the caring feeling morass is the consideration that sometimes "tough love" is the better option. What often seems like empathy, sympathy, caring is often just an excuse to do the easy thing, to say "you poor dear, who knew at 20 years old that if you have sex without any means of preventing pregnancy you just might get knocked up?" Seriously? They've been getting sex education since grade school but no one saw to it that they knew that? Or are y'all being played for suckers by people of the mindset that if they have three kids by three dads they will make enough support and welfare money that they'll never have to work? (Yes, I overheard just that master plan from one young lady, and promptly warned any young feller I knew about it).
Big whoop. We've been saying this for years. The meaningful, third rail is spending cuts and no one's stuck a fork in it. Care to be the first?
Let the record show you'd advise conservative candidates to tell women what to do with this knees because the shelf life on their virginity will carry them all the way to the marital altar or the funeral pyre, whichever comes first.
I may need to reconsider thinking you living with only a horse is a good idea.
Is there anyone still surprised that so many Americans think conservatives are judgmental, intrusive, sanctimonious blowhards who should be shunned at all costs, especially at the ballot box?
Is there anyone who still thinks conservatives on the campaign trail should spend more time on social issues?
Show of hands, please.
Seriously, you're taking umbrage with me moving originalist judges from "libertarian" to "conservative"? Seriously? Wow, I'm starting to see why your living with a horse is a pretty smart move. Any arrangement with another human you'd never get a moment's peace. :laugh:
Big whoop. We've been saying this for years. The meaningful, third rail is spending cuts and no one's stuck a fork in it. Care to be the first?
Let the record show you'd advise conservative candidates to tell women what to do with this knees because the shelf life on their virginity will carry them all the way to the marital altar or the funeral pyre, whichever comes first.
I may need to reconsider thinking you living with only a horse is a good idea.
Is there anyone still surprised that so many Americans think conservatives are judgmental, intrusive, sanctimonious blowhards who should be shunned at all costs, especially at the ballot box?
Is there anyone who still thinks conservatives on the campaign trail should spend more time on social issues?
Show of hands, please.
This is why the GOP will not succeed.
[...]
If you don't have the strength of conviction to stand for what is right, what is wrong will prevail, and today's politicians don't have it.
We do not have the ability to force anyone to be responsible. There are no political solutions to cultural problems.
We can't even get responsible behaviour from our elected representatives. We can't even get policy which no longer subsidizes irresponsibility, instead it is the praised, preferred, coddled, and celebrated behaviour pattern common to the fawning endorsement of the Left, in the eternal pursuit of popularity with a segment off our culture more deserving of a spanking than a participation trophy.
The lies in the media and entertainment industry, even social media, all point in the same (wrong) direction.
At some point, you have to either step out of the way, and let the lemmings take the plunge, or be trampled/swept along. The ones who are determined to hurtle themselves and the society into the abyss will only be irritated by your attempts to dissuade them (evident even here), and you will weary yourself attempting to do so to little avail, except assuaging the moral compulsion to make the attempt.
I agree with @roamer_1. Time to step aside and get out of the way of the herd. The stampede is heading toward the jump at a full charge,.
Warm your hands at the book pile, secure your copies against the day, when like Dead Sea Scrolls, they might bring about a new wave of thought and a restoration of liberty, and move quietly to the edge of the herd as it starts off...
The problem there is that the RINO and GOPe wings will do all in their power to sabotage anyone who isn't part of their 'club'. We just saw that go down, and they are not to be trusted any more than the Dems, imho. While they will 'virtue signal' with votes, they cannot be counted on to hold the line, nor work together. Even the Communists, Homosexuals, Racially charged groups of the left will circle wagons in a common lager for their mutual benefit, but the GOP just invokes the circular firing squad.Time to drain the SWAMP! Take them down!
Good observation; I'm not as in tune with Trump as you are and haven't paid attention to the "thumbs up".
Meeting with Noem is a positive. I remember the protesters trying to block people from attending the speech at Rushmore and she had things fairly under control. I've been very impressed with her ever since her speech that night.
The ONLY way forward is to admit that sex is not merely transactional.
There are real consequences, and you MUST reap those consequences...
That is the truth. Anything other than that adds to the problem, which is that sluts bear bastards,
and there is no way around that except to discourage sluts and bastards - and make the father marry. Shotgun weddings.
That fixed it for thousands of years,
and the only other way there IS is government welfare, which reduces a woman and her offspring to chattel.
Time to drain the SWAMP! Take them down!
Mitch's pets:
Rob Portman (Ohio)
Lamar Alexander (Tennessee)
Ben Sasse (Nebraska)
Roy Blunt (Missouri)
Susan Collins (Maine)
Lisa Murkowski (Alaska)
John Cornyn (Texas) John Thune (South Dakota)
Mitt Romney (Utah)
Mike Braun and Todd Young (Indiana)
Tim Scott (South Carolina)
Rick Scott and Marco Rubio (Florida)
Chuck Grassley (Iowa)
Richard Burr (North Carolina)
Pat Toomey (Pennsylvania)
Martha McSally (Arizona)
Jerry Moran and Pat Roberts (Kansas)
Richard Shelby (Alabama).
This has been an excellent thread for thought. I'll be mulling this over before I run for something else in 2022.
No, not at all @Hoodat I'm trying very hard to force someone, anyone, to think strategically. We can't write off 1/2 the country because we assume they're dead to us. (Well, not if we really want to win an election)
What do we do with these folks: ?
Let's get back to the election, the FRAUD, the GRANDEST THEFT of all, and you can explain to me where the GOPe outcry was. Where the strident demands for investigations went. Where the objections to the certification of electoral votes were? Why there is no outcry about the intentionally lax security at the Capitol that day and how the ANTIFAs were all over the news but the DOJ can claim there is "no evidence of their presence". WTF???
The GOP should be on that like white on rice, but all we hear is crickets.
And that is what you want us to support?
Meh.
Time to drain the SWAMP! Take them down!
Mitch's pets:
Rob Portman (Ohio)
Lamar Alexander (Tennessee)
Ben Sasse (Nebraska)
Roy Blunt (Missouri)
Susan Collins (Maine)
Lisa Murkowski (Alaska)
John Cornyn (Texas) John Thune (South Dakota)
Mitt Romney (Utah)
Mike Braun and Todd Young (Indiana)
Tim Scott (South Carolina)
Rick Scott and Marco Rubio (Florida)
Chuck Grassley (Iowa)
Richard Burr (North Carolina)
Pat Toomey (Pennsylvania)
Martha McSally (Arizona)
Jerry Moran and Pat Roberts (Kansas)
Richard Shelby (Alabama).
How refreshing it would be to have a GOP working to take down Senators like John Ossoff, Rafael Warnock, and Gary Peters instead.
Let the record show you'd advise conservative candidates to tell women what to do with this knees because the shelf life on their virginity will carry them all the way to the marital altar or the funeral pyre, whichever comes first.
@roamer_1
Quote from: roamer_1 on Today at 02:22:16 AM
I,for one,have NEVER thought that sex was transactional unless it was for cash. Normally,it is done because two people find each other attractive,or even just because they happen to be available to one another in time of sexual need. Which is also why most people married one another. Their only other option was to never marry or have a family.
What a bleeped up world you live in to consider sex to primarily be a transaction.
Usually there ARE no consequences. I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that there is,unless you have lived a very shallow,guilt-filled life.
Yes,SOMETIMES there ARE consequences,such as catching VD or an unwanted pregnancy. Which to ME seems to be the primary reason to restrict legal sex to adults. Adults are SUPPOSED to be mature enough and financially capable of dealing with the consequences,including raising a child if that becomes necessary.
No doubt "GAWD" told you that women who have sex and aren't married are all sluts?
Yeah,what could POSSIBLY go wrong there? Other than child abuse,wife abuse,drunken assaults,children running away from unsafe homes,etc,etc,etc?
Here is a suggestion. How about you and your Gawd pay all the expenses? After all,you are the ones telling people how to live their lives,so why shouldn't YOU be the ones responsible for paying the bills?
@Right_in_Virginia
Our mission is not to compromise with evil. Our mission is to overcome evil.
What a load of horse manure! Does the term 'personal responsibility' not mean anything any more? Actions have consequences. No one is telling anyone what to do with their knees, only what the effects can be. But thanks for reciting the non-rational NARAL rhetoric. We should all learn to recognize the subtlety of the enemy's lies.
Here is a suggestion. How about you and your Gawd pay all the expenses? After all,you are the ones telling people how to live their lives,so why shouldn't YOU be the ones responsible for paying the bills?
@Hoodat
Well stated,but the problem is to get people to agree on what is acceptable,and what is evil. Which is a lot more complex than some people want to accept.
There are ALWAYS consequences, some are just more drastic than others. But there is no question that the majority of party sex, and resulting pregnancies are visited on the young. Seldom do folks stay in that scene much past 20 or 30, with most of the 'mistakes' coming before that. And broken homes and single parents are literally rampant.
There is no fixing anything in this country while ignoring that obvious fact. Like I said, loose morals lead to single parents, single parents lead to drug abuse and gangs, and drug abuse and gangs lead to more single parenthood.
The only thing that separates you and me is I'm trying to find a way to help conservatives win; while you'd be happy losing as long your principles never take a shower or change clothes.
@Right_in_Virginia
Your "plurality" premises make no sense in regards to binomial options where plurality doesn't exist. Our mission is not to compromise with evil. Our mission is to overcome evil.
The rise in single parenthood is the direct result of government intervention. First, they rewarded mothers who kicked fathers out of the home and thus penalized two-parent families. Then they pushed abortion as further-down-the-road birth control 'just in case', thus removing the incentive for responsible action at the time. Yet once an unwed woman found herself pregnant, she discovered that not only would the government cover the cost of her childbirth, she could also get money out of the government for the next 18 years.
From the man's perspective, abortion was a perfect fit (which is why men are abortion's strongest advocates). They could ejaculate any where they pleased. And if anything went wrong, it was a woman's duty to kill that 'problem' to save them from any child support payments.
These are examples of societal decisions that the members of a society come together to decide. Which is why many States outlawed abortion to begin with. Citizens of those States recognized the far-reaching negative effects when life is devalued. Some (like Virginia) even recognized the dangers of common law marriage, and absolved the Commonwealth's involvement by outlawing cohabitation. Yet the rights of the citizenry to mold and shape their society has been usurped by tyrannical courts who have forced their 'morality' down our throats.
The only course of action here is to return the right of self-governance back to the People and restore our Republic back to its original ideals. If the people of Vermont wish to allow people to marry dogs and horses, then more power to them. But do not deny my rights as a Georgian to help formulate laws that our own society can agree to.
That's a GREAT quote...is that yours or did you hear it somewhere. Gets right to the heart of the matter. I hope you don't mind if I borrow that phrase in the future!
Here is what too many of you forget. We can't fix anything...we can't advance any conservative principles...we cannot move the nation back towards justice and sanity...we cannot turn the budget around or secure the border....if we lose elections.
I think its fair to say that nearly everyone here believes in the advancement of conservatism as our governing philosophy...but some of you think simply being conservative results, automatically, in electoral victory. So let me shock some of you...it doesn't. We have to communicate at a human and common sense level...we have to persuade rather than deliver moral lectures from an ivory lectern on rectitude that lack any sense of empathy, love, or understanding...we cannot hide in our mountain cabins spouting cliche's about our own conservative authenticity while making idiotic proclamations that there's no difference between a Mike Pence and a Kamala Harris....and we can't condemn our own leaders when they don't magically fix all of our budget excesses and balance our budget with their magic wands.
We can KNOW where we want conservatism to take us...fiscally...and yet understand what is politically possible for ANY leader. Doing as some here advocate...for example, instantly passing a balanced budget...would have destroyed conservatism as a political force for a generation. We can be principled without being suicidal morons...in political terms.
We DO need to be tactical....we do need to think strategically...we do need to cull RINO's and dingbat NT's like Romney/Bush/Cheney/ and others. We cannot afford to execute a full scale "purging" of the party, nor can we afford to split into 3rd parties and factions. Again, such things can only end in generational defeat.
We have to talk to people at their level...as in reach out to minorities and women and offer COMPASSIONED and reasoned arguments for why conservatism will make their lives better...we need to talk to millenials and younger voters in a way that DOES NOT sound like "grumpy grandpa bah-humbug" ranting. Quite frankly, the way roamer1 communicates his views...is precisely why so many see conservatism as anachronistic, uncaring, and irrational. And I say that KNOWING that roamer is right on nearly every issues...his positions are correct...but commuicating conservatism as a moral and angry sermon turns people to liberalism. ITs a a dimwitted tactic that feels good and loses elections...and losing elections is precisely how conservatism dies.
So quit damn trying to feel good about how f'ing pure you are as a conservative, and start trying to win some people over to our philosophy with reason, compassion and empathy...without all the moral grandstanding, preaching and condescension.
That is how we win....and that is what the President was doing before the NT/RINO's undercut him at every turn and put us ALL where we are now.
"Conservatism — when articulated clearly and when practiced faithfully and without apology — wins every time." ~ Rush Limbaugh
:whistle:
What a load of horse manure! Does the term 'personal responsibility' not mean anything any more?
Let's get back to the election, the FRAUD, the GRANDEST THEFT of all, and you can explain to me where the GOPe outcry was. Where the strident demands for investigations went. Where the objections to the certification of electoral votes were? Why there is no outcry about the intentionally lax security at the Capitol that day and how the ANTIFAs were all over the news but the DOJ can claim there is "no evidence of their presence". WTF???
The GOP should be on that like white on rice, but all we hear is crickets.
And that is what you want us to support?
Meh.
Conservatives really need to remember -- as righteous as our principles may be -- we stand for smaller government, not a broad judgmental, intrusive one substituting for a parent.
Here is what too many of you forget. We can't fix anything...we can't advance any conservative principles...we cannot move the nation back towards justice and sanity...we cannot turn the budget around or secure the border....if we lose elections.
I think its fair to say that nearly everyone here believes in the advancement of conservatism as our governing philosophy...but some of you think simply being conservative results, automatically, in electoral victory. So let me shock some of you...it doesn't. We have to communicate at a human and common sense level...we have to persuade rather than deliver moral lectures from an ivory lectern on rectitude that lack any sense of empathy, love, or understanding...we cannot hide in our mountain cabins spouting cliche's about our own conservative authenticity while making idiotic proclamations that there's no difference between a Mike Pence and a Kamala Harris....and we can't condemn our own leaders when they don't magically fix all of our budget excesses and balance our budget with their magic wands.
We can KNOW where we want conservatism to take us...fiscally...and yet understand what is politically possible for ANY leader. Doing as some here advocate...for example, instantly passing a balanced budget...would have destroyed conservatism as a political force for a generation. We can be principled without being suicidal morons...in political terms.
We DO need to be tactical....we do need to think strategically...we do need to cull RINO's and dingbat NT's like Romney/Bush/Cheney/ and others. We cannot afford to execute a full scale "purging" of the party, nor can we afford to split into 3rd parties and factions. Again, such things can only end in generational defeat.
We have to talk to people at their level...as in reach out to minorities and women and offer COMPASSIONED and reasoned arguments for why conservatism will make their lives better...we need to talk to millenials and younger voters in a way that DOES NOT sound like "grumpy grandpa bah-humbug" ranting. Quite frankly, the way roamer1 communicates his views...is precisely why so many see conservatism as anachronistic, uncaring, and irrational. And I say that KNOWING that roamer is right on nearly every issues...his positions are correct...but commuicating conservatism as a moral and angry sermon turns people to liberalism. ITs a a dimwitted tactic that feels good and loses elections...and losing elections is precisely how conservatism dies.
So quit damn trying to feel good about how f'ing pure you are as a conservative, and start trying to win some people over to our philosophy with reason, compassion and empathy...without all the moral grandstanding, preaching and condescension.
That is how we win....and that is what the President was doing before the NT/RINO's undercut him at every turn and put us ALL where we are now.
My thanks to Rush, as that was my point entirely!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh but that's rich! Y'all were just the ones calling me a meanie for taking AWAY Uncle Nanny... Who is that substitute parent - which you are fighting to KEEP.
Here is what too many of you forget. We can't fix anything...we can't advance any conservative principles...we cannot move the nation back towards justice and sanity...we cannot turn the budget around or secure the border....if we lose elections.
I think its fair to say that nearly everyone here believes in the advancement of conservatism as our governing philosophy...but some of you think simply being conservative results, automatically, in electoral victory. So let me shock some of you...it doesn't. We have to communicate at a human and common sense level...we have to persuade rather than deliver moral lectures from an ivory lectern on rectitude that lack any sense of empathy, love, or understanding...we cannot hide in our mountain cabins spouting cliche's about our own conservative authenticity while making idiotic proclamations that there's no difference between a Mike Pence and a Kamala Harris....and we can't condemn our own leaders when they don't magically fix all of our budget excesses and balance our budget with their magic wands.
We can KNOW where we want conservatism to take us...fiscally...and yet understand what is politically possible for ANY leader. Doing as some here advocate...for example, instantly passing a balanced budget...would have destroyed conservatism as a political force for a generation. We can be principled without being suicidal morons...in political terms.
We DO need to be tactical....we do need to think strategically...we do need to cull RINO's and dingbat NT's like Romney/Bush/Cheney/ and others. We cannot afford to execute a full scale "purging" of the party, nor can we afford to split into 3rd parties and factions. Again, such things can only end in generational defeat.
We have to talk to people at their level...as in reach out to minorities and women and offer COMPASSIONED and reasoned arguments for why conservatism will make their lives better...we need to talk to millenials and younger voters in a way that DOES NOT sound like "grumpy grandpa bah-humbug" ranting. Quite frankly, the way roamer1 communicates his views...is precisely why so many see conservatism as anachronistic, uncaring, and irrational. And I say that KNOWING that roamer is right on nearly every issues...his positions are correct...but commuicating conservatism as a moral and angry sermon turns people to liberalism. ITs a a dimwitted tactic that feels good and loses elections...and losing elections is precisely how conservatism dies.
So quit damn trying to feel good about how f'ing pure you are as a conservative, and start trying to win some people over to our philosophy with reason, compassion and empathy...without all the moral grandstanding, preaching and condescension.
That is how we win....and that is what the President was doing before the NT/RINO's undercut him at every turn and put us ALL where we are now.
Good post. We can dump the RINO's and still attract new Republican voters by sticking to and explaining our principles in language that makes sense to people in their daily lives.
You need to hone your reading skills...because no one here is calling for "nanny" anything. There's a difference between expecting people to be responsible and accountable for their actions....which is the genuinely conservative stance....and preaching down to them like some sort of condescending Jimmy Swaggart A-hole...which seems to be the common approach of the NT group around here.
Hey bruh... It ain't like you ain't preachin down to me. That's all I get is condescension. And in the middle of it all, you admit that I'm right! Pick one side or the other. you can't have both.
You are right on the issues. Wrong on the delivery. Wrong on the tactics of winning elections. Wrong on the strategy of winning the hearts and minds of voters.
And I'm not condescending to you...its more like I'm beating my head against a wall hoping to make a small dent in the bricks.
You are right on the issues. Wrong on the delivery. Wrong on the tactics of winning elections. Wrong on the strategy of winning the hearts and minds of voters.
And I'm not condescending to you...its more like I'm beating my head against a wall hoping to make a small dent in the bricks.
The big problem with Trump is that he was never able to soften the way he delivered his message. I fully support his approach to capitalism, foreign policy and his dislike for the corrupt news media. The trouble is it was all confrontation and not enough reconciliation. I understand that the Russia hoax pushed him into that demeanor, but it was also a trap.
If Trump and given a speech in prime time from the Oval Office about the Covet crisis, he would have been much better off than he was with his rambling press conferences. If he had looked at some of the science, and noted that this is a highly contagious and dangerous disease for certain segments of the population, he would have fared better politically. If he had taken more of the “We are all in this together†approach and emphasized his commitment to getting a vaccine ASAP, the Democrats could not have laid a hand on him.
I recognize that there was a lot of cheating in the counting of the votes. My position is that we will never know the true results of the 2020 presidential election. Still if Trump had looked more controlled, the Democrats might not have been to steal enough votes to win.
The big problem with Trump is that he was never able to soften the way he delivered his message.
I fully support his approach to capitalism, foreign policy and his dislike for the corrupt news media. The trouble is it was all confrontation and not enough reconciliation. I understand that the Russia hoax pushed him into that demeanor, but it was also a trap.
If Trump and given a speech in prime time from the Oval Office about the Covet crisis, he would have been much better off than he was with his rambling press conferences. If he had looked at some of the science, and noted that this is a highly contagious and dangerous disease for certain segments of the population, he would have fared better politically. If he had taken more of the “We are all in this together†approach and emphasized his commitment to getting a vaccine ASAP, the Democrats could not have laid a hand on him.
I recognize that there was a lot of cheating in the counting of the votes. My position is that we will never know the true results of the 2020 presidential election. Still if Trump had looked more controlled, the Democrats might not have been to steal enough votes to win.
The big problem with Trump is that he was never able to soften the way he delivered his message.
The big problem with Trump is that he was never able to soften the way he delivered his message. I fully support his approach to capitalism, foreign policy and his dislike for the corrupt news media. The trouble is it was all confrontation and not enough reconciliation. I understand that the Russia hoax pushed him into that demeanor, but it was also a trap.
If Trump and given a speech in prime time from the Oval Office about the Covet crisis, he would have been much better off than he was with his rambling press conferences. If he had looked at some of the science, and noted that this is a highly contagious and dangerous disease for certain segments of the population, he would have fared better politically. If he had taken more of the “We are all in this together†approach and emphasized his commitment to getting a vaccine ASAP, the Democrats could not have laid a hand on him.
I recognize that there was a lot of cheating in the counting of the votes. My position is that we will never know the true results of the 2020 presidential election. Still if Trump had looked more controlled, the Democrats might not have been to steal enough votes to win.
Here is what too many of you forget. We can't fix anything...we can't advance any conservative principles...we cannot move the nation back towards justice and sanity...we cannot turn the budget around or secure the border....if we lose elections.
I think its fair to say that nearly everyone here believes in the advancement of conservatism as our governing philosophy...but some of you think simply being conservative results, automatically, in electoral victory. So let me shock some of you...it doesn't. We have to communicate at a human and common sense level...we have to persuade rather than deliver moral lectures from an ivory lectern on rectitude that lack any sense of empathy, love, or understanding...we cannot hide in our mountain cabins spouting cliche's about our own conservative authenticity while making idiotic proclamations that there's no difference between a Mike Pence and a Kamala Harris....and we can't condemn our own leaders when they don't magically fix all of our budget excesses and balance our budget with their magic wands.
We can KNOW where we want conservatism to take us...fiscally...and yet understand what is politically possible for ANY leader. Doing as some here advocate...for example, instantly passing a balanced budget...would have destroyed conservatism as a political force for a generation. We can be principled without being suicidal morons...in political terms.
We DO need to be tactical....we do need to think strategically...we do need to cull RINO's and dingbat NT's like Romney/Bush/Cheney/ and others. We cannot afford to execute a full scale "purging" of the party, nor can we afford to split into 3rd parties and factions. Again, such things can only end in generational defeat.
We have to talk to people at their level...as in reach out to minorities and women and offer COMPASSIONED
and reasoned arguments for why conservatism will make their lives better...we need to talk to millenials and younger voters in a way that DOES NOT sound like "grumpy grandpa bah-humbug" ranting.
Quite frankly, the way roamer1 communicates his views...is precisely why so many see conservatism as anachronistic, uncaring, and irrational. And I say that KNOWING that roamer is right on nearly every issues...his positions are correct...but commuicating conservatism as a moral and angry sermon turns people to liberalism. ITs a a dimwitted tactic that feels good and loses elections...and losing elections is precisely how conservatism dies.
So quit damn trying to feel good about how f'ing pure you are as a conservative, and start trying to win some people over to our philosophy with reason, compassion and empathy...without all the moral grandstanding, preaching and condescension.
That is how we win....and that is what the President was doing before the NT/RINO's undercut him at every turn and put us ALL where we are now.
You're right about "plurality" ... I suppose I can change that to "majority" --- a fluid one.
But my question stands @Hoodat -- how do we reach some, if not all, of these voting blocs? Can we change their minds or do we write them off? If we write them off, how do we win elections?
And, yes, I understand the overcome evil mission. It's just everyone who reminds me of this ignores telling me how we do this in the political arena. This is as frustrating as being told we must nominate and vote conservative. Okay, got that. But, who are our target voters and what are our top three messages?
A bigger problem @Lincolncollector is so many on the right never paid real attention to the man and were held hostage to legacy media reports. IOW, so many bought and are still buying their crap.
https://rumble.com/embed/v7rl83/?pub=4
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/05/15/18/4C48A47400000578-5732423-image-a-11_1526405133642.jpg)
(https://images05.military.com/sites/default/files/2018-03/trump-veteran-hug.jpg)
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(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5IJsRtpPmuM/maxresdefault.jpg)
(https://www.baltimoresun.com/resizer/S4LFZ2Hj5keE_PMUjNYDgWL4Z68=/1200x0/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/5YO7GGDGFBAELJEEUQXSEJAXME.jpg)
I was never what you call a staunch Trump supporter, but I have to disagree with you. No one in the history of politics has been able to connect with his audience like Trump has and no one has been able to draw the kinds of crowds that he has. That has always been his strongest asset. His ability to connect with others is what won him the oval office.
That ability also drew 75+ million people to vote for him --- the election WAS stolen. I have no doubt.
President Trump was the messenger for those people.
Reality is, literally, what we make it. The GOP replaced the Whigs and were a new party. The Whigs went, well, the way of the Whigs. This can happen again if enough people will stop the tired practice of not doing it because "it can't be done". Argue for your limitations, and sure as shit, they're yours.
That's one thing the Communists just do not do. They don't say "We can't", instead they keep chipping away--and that is how mountains wear down and are carried to the sea, one grain at a time. A lot of grains have been moved, significant features of our society and culture and what makes us America have been strategically undermined to the point of catastrophic collapse. Fiscally, educationally, socially, culturally, constitutionally, in virtually every facet of our society there is a flaw serious enough to cause failure, and the Cloward-Piven principle is in full swing with the sheer deluge of enactments and executive orders.
The GOP is doing what, exactly to fight this?
Those who do speak up are marginalized by either Leftists in the MSM or Social Media (e.g.: Rep Greene, who has been put into the wacko category with supposed statements she didn't make) or the scions of the GOPe or RINOs themselves, while the "sane" voices propose impotent solutions to problems that wouldn't even be implemented if they had the power to do so. Y'all keep being suckers, because what you have been doing the last 50 years has only lost ground, despite the efforts of Reagan and Trump (who was scuttled as much by the GOP as the Left).
One more, five more, voices lent to that outcry won't make a whit of difference. Just keep pushing the same buttons and wait for a different result. We all know the 'wish hand' doesn't fill up first.
Let's get back to the election, the FRAUD, the GRANDEST THEFT of all, and you can explain to me where the GOPe outcry was. Where the strident demands for investigations went. Where the objections to the certification of electoral votes were? Why there is no outcry about the intentionally lax security at the Capitol that day and how the ANTIFAs were all over the news but the DOJ can claim there is "no evidence of their presence". WTF???
The GOP should be on that like white on rice, but all we hear is crickets.
And that is what you want us to support?
Meh.
The Party isn't one to ride the river with, and I ain't about to sign on to that.
Good post. We can dump the RINO's and still attract new Republican voters by sticking to and explaining our principles in language that makes sense to people in their daily lives.
The big problem with Trump is that he was never able to soften the way he delivered his message. I fully support his approach to capitalism, foreign policy and his dislike for the corrupt news media. The trouble is it was all confrontation and not enough reconciliation. I understand that the Russia hoax pushed him into that demeanor, but it was also a trap.
If Trump and given a speech in prime time from the Oval Office about the Covet crisis, he would have been much better off than he was with his rambling press conferences. If he had looked at some of the science, and noted that this is a highly contagious and dangerous disease for certain segments of the population, he would have fared better politically. If he had taken more of the “We are all in this together†approach and emphasized his commitment to getting a vaccine ASAP, the Democrats could not have laid a hand on him.
I recognize that there was a lot of cheating in the counting of the votes. My position is that we will never know the true results of the 2020 presidential election. Still if Trump had looked more controlled, the Democrats might not have been to steal enough votes to win.
Conservatives need to find a way to respect a woman's belief that it's her body her choice.
@sneakypete
That won't happen while you continue to feed the beast. We are going in the wrong direction. Bush had it right in 2006 (deficit down to $160 billion), but the GOP bailed. Today, the deficit is easily 20 times that.
Complexity is simply an excuse offered by those unwilling to act. Stop funding the opposition. Stop stealing from those who work hard. Restore hope for the future. Nothing complex about that.
Is there anyone still surprised that so many Americans think conservatives are judgmental, intrusive, sanctimonious blowhards who should be shunned at all costs, especially at the ballot box?
Is there anyone who still thinks conservatives on the campaign trail should spend more time on social issues?
Show of hands, please.
Here is what too many of you forget. We can't fix anything...we can't advance any conservative principles...we cannot move the nation back towards justice and sanity...we cannot turn the budget around or secure the border....if we lose elections.
I think its fair to say that nearly everyone here believes in the advancement of conservatism as our governing philosophy...but some of you think simply being conservative results, automatically, in electoral victory. So let me shock some of you...it doesn't. We have to communicate at a human and common sense level...we have to persuade rather than deliver moral lectures from an ivory lectern on rectitude that lack any sense of empathy, love, or understanding...we cannot hide in our mountain cabins spouting cliche's about our own conservative authenticity while making idiotic proclamations that there's no difference between a Mike Pence and a Kamala Harris....and we can't condemn our own leaders when they don't magically fix all of our budget excesses and balance our budget with their magic wands.
We can KNOW where we want conservatism to take us...fiscally...and yet understand what is politically possible for ANY leader. Doing as some here advocate...for example, instantly passing a balanced budget...would have destroyed conservatism as a political force for a generation. We can be principled without being suicidal morons...in political terms.
We DO need to be tactical....we do need to think strategically...we do need to cull RINO's and dingbat NT's like Romney/Bush/Cheney/ and others. We cannot afford to execute a full scale "purging" of the party, nor can we afford to split into 3rd parties and factions. Again, such things can only end in generational defeat.
We have to talk to people at their level...as in reach out to minorities and women and offer COMPASSIONED and reasoned arguments for why conservatism will make their lives better...we need to talk to millenials and younger voters in a way that DOES NOT sound like "grumpy grandpa bah-humbug" ranting. Quite frankly, the way roamer1 communicates his views...is precisely why so many see conservatism as anachronistic, uncaring, and irrational. And I say that KNOWING that roamer is right on nearly every issues...his positions are correct...but commuicating conservatism as a moral and angry sermon turns people to liberalism. ITs a a dimwitted tactic that feels good and loses elections...and losing elections is precisely how conservatism dies.
So quit damn trying to feel good about how f'ing pure you are as a conservative, and start trying to win some people over to our philosophy with reason, compassion and empathy...without all the moral grandstanding, preaching and condescension.
That is how we win....and that is what the President was doing before the NT/RINO's undercut him at every turn and put us ALL where we are now.
Of course it does @Hoodat I'm asking you where the government fits into it. So, please, use "personal responsibility" in a political ad. Maybe then together we can assess how many voters it will cost us.
Conservatives really need to remember -- as righteous as our principles may be -- we stand for smaller government, not a broad judgmental, intrusive one substituting for a parent.
This is the exact same speech the GOPe has been feeding me my whole life. It is the same speech they fed Reagan in 1976 and tried to feed him in 1980. It is the same speech given by those who gave us George HW Bush, Bob Dole, John McCain, and Mitt Romney. It was the one given to George W. Bush in 2006 when he tried to privatize Social Security. And now we have to hear it again from you.
To those of you who say that Trump could not have put his message another way, I would point to Ronald Reagan, “the great communicator.†A skillful politician can work his or her voice in ways that even make their opponents think they sound reasonable.
Good post. We can dump the RINO's and still attract new Republican voters by sticking to and explaining our principles in language that makes sense to people in their daily lives.
To those of you who say that Trump could not have put his message another way, I would point to Ronald Reagan, “the great communicator.†A skillful politician can work his or her voice in ways that even make their opponents think they sound reasonable.A person is who he or she is. They can't be someone else.
But it's not her body and not her choice.
To those of you who say that Trump could not have put his message another way, I would point to Ronald Reagan, “the great communicator.â€
Here is what too many of you forget. We can't fix anything...we can't advance any conservative principles...we cannot move the nation back towards justice and sanity...we cannot turn the budget around or secure the border....if we lose elections.
I think its fair to say that nearly everyone here believes in the advancement of conservatism as our governing philosophy...
So quit damn trying to feel good about how f'ing pure you are as a conservative
and start trying to win some people over to our philosophy with reason, compassion and empathy...without all the moral grandstanding, preaching and condescension.
That is how we win....and that is what the President was doing before the NT/RINO's undercut him at every turn and put us ALL where we are now.
It very much is to her @Sled Dog --- and the Supreme Court.
You've got to decide which is more important to you: Being such a sanctimonious, off-putting judge of womankind that they wouldn't spit on if you were on fire ... or creating an environment to both save babies from abortion and win elections.
Let's go back to 2010. The Democrats pass Obamacare through reconciliation.
Not a single Republican votes for it, but not a single Republican tries to stop it either. The bill could have been tied up for eternity with an endless parade of amendments.
But they simply didn't have it in them. Instead, they turn to us - the TEA Conservatives. They said that if we got out there with enough support to give them control of the House, they would be able to reverse Obamacare. This is exactly what Conservatives did. They turned out and handed the Speaker position over to the GOP. And in 2011, what did John Boehner and his new Republican majority do? They fully funded ObamaCare. 2012? Same thing. And again in 2013. By 2014, they cried about how they couldn't do it without the Senate. So Conservatives turned out again and gave the GOP control of the Senate too.
So in 2015 with both Houses of Congress under GOP control, do you think they defunded Obamacare? Nope. In 2016, the new cry became the White House. They needed a Republican President to get the deed done. So once again, Conservatives turned out and got Trump elected.
Now it's 2017. Republicans control the House. Republicans control the Senate. Republicans control the White House. Yet ObamaCare still gets funded. The Federal government still mandates what must be covered. The deduction for medical costs remains at 10% instead of reverting back to 7.5%, hurting those with chronic health issues the most. And the taxpayer is still on the hook for other people's insurance that now costs four times what it cost before because of government mandates. The only thing that changed was that a tax (for which there was no penalty for avoiding and no mechanism for enforcing) got removed. Everything else remained in place. Everything.
This is what happened when we won elections. And they were won because there was a Conservative cause at stake. Well I for one am sick and tired of being lied to.
The GOP was undercutting Trump from the day following the 2016 GOP Convention until now. Trump simply didn't recognize it. Personally, I don't have a problem with Trump. But I have a hell of a big problem with the GOP from top to bottom. They alone are to blame for Biden occupying the White House. They alone are to blame for Dem control of the House and Senate. And they alone are to blame for the $1.9 trillion slush fund that Democrats just voted themselves to carry them through the next eight years of elections.
IMHO actually dumping RINOs would be the greatest attractant to the GOP in 100 years but SERIOUSLY doubt it will ever happen because the PTB doesn't want it to happen.
And, the republic is now dead as a post so it doesn't matter anyway.
IMHO actually dumping RINOs would be the greatest attractant to the GOP in 100 years but SERIOUSLY doubt it will ever happen because the PTB doesn't want it to happen.
And, the republic is now dead as a post so it doesn't matter anyway.
So the third-party people and other losers really need to stop whining and start fighting.
She's wrong. She should learn something about science and how to swallow.
The Supreme Court is a political body and not perfect.
I am not a judge.
I deal in facts.
The fact is that the broad is living in the modern world with a bazillion ways to avoid getting knocked up, from the obvious (can't get preggers if she doesn't screw) to the arcane use of various pills and mechanical aids.
Avoiding pregnancy isn't difficult. Why is it so many woman can't figure it out?
Clearly the environment to avoid abortions already exists and has existed since the time men and women figured out what they were doing together that made all those babies in the first place.
People who respect women don't pretend they're helpless idiots who need to murder their babies because they're too stupid to avoid getting knocked up.
Agree, And yet the Roe v Wade decision stands.
Only if Hairy Reid, the Two Eyed Senate Majority (Less One) Leader allowed that. The future One-Eyed Man did not so permit.
Because Republicans are lying sacks of sh*t. Don't go on like it is good law.
I've never said it was a good decision.
IMHO actually dumping RINOs would be the greatest attractant to the GOP in 100 years but SERIOUSLY doubt it will ever happen because the PTB doesn't want it to happen.
And, the republic is now dead as a post so it doesn't matter anyway.
@Cyber Liberty Is this guy a family friend?
You should learn something about wisdom and grace.
Agree, And yet the Roe v Wade decision stands. As a nation of laws, it matters little that the SC is a political body and not perfect.
One's opinion on abortion has zero bearing on the Constitutionality of Roe.
If Congress wants to step in and pass a federal law regarding abortion, then they have that right. But since they have been unwilling to do so because of political cowardice, then that decision defaults to the States.
I agree, in part @Smokin Joe I don't think there's a political solution to sexual practices, getting pregnant, or marriage.When you say what you say about conservatives, the ordinary folks who see the problem, yes, there may be hope. Within the GOP apparatus? Well, that's another tale, and as Shakespeare wrote, it hangs by many a wind instrument... I just don't see it. Despite the ordinary folks imbued with common sense, the revolt against cancel culture, big tech, and the rest, what we all lack (and did, even when Trump was in the White House) is a Party which represents us at the Federal Level. Not that there are not a couple of exceptions to that, just that the mass of the GOP has done diddey-squat to look out for the 'ordinary people' who employ them, and it has been much the same for my lifetime, with rare exception.
But cultural norms include freedom, the true and full American story --- including our Founders, and the meaning of "God, Country, Family". I think we need to stay in this fight -- or this, too, will be decided for us.
I'm not talking about behavior modification through political means. In fact, I'm of the opinion the less conservatives speak to this, the better politically we will be. In four short years Donald Trump had American flags waving again, America "first" making sense, pride was back, people talking about the American dream, people running to the employment office, people "fighting" back against socialism and the diminishment of our individual freedoms. This stuff is just as contagious, if not more, that the liberal bullshit. If we stay on this track, we won't have to worry about spankings and trophies.
Of course they do. But don't overlook the 75+ million Americans who took what they were spewing, wrapped it in a big red bow and threw it away on election day. Please, don't underestimate the basic common sense of the American people. This is the one lie that ties all the other lies together.
I don't think we've arrived at this point. Are we close? Yes. Are we there yet? NO
.
Not yet, Joe. Not yet. Can't give them a free rein just yet. Recognize that November held some good news. The anti-American Marxist brigade had to steal the government to have the power they now have. --- We need to keep the people with us, and we need to STOP HR1.
I'll admit it: This is a nice, poetic ending to a very depressing post.
But another ray of good news is conservatives are uniquely positioned and uniquely trusted to stop the book burnings, stop the cancel culture, stop the socialism. WE are the party of freedom! Methinks Americans are waiting patiently for us to get our political act together, which we are doing, BTW.
Now is NOT the time to step aside.
Fight *for what*?? More than thirty years I been listening to that crap and nary a win. Not one in thirty friggin years.
Sooner or later a feller is going to stop expecting different results. For me, that was in 07... And for me, since then, without raising six figures every election, without pounding pavement, I have found far more success just practicing Conservatism with my own hand, where I can control and see real results.
So hell no. I heard it all before. And not a damn thing has changed.
You should learn something about wisdom and grace.
Agree, And yet the Roe v Wade decision stands. As a nation of laws, it matters little that the SC is a political body and not perfect.
You may not be a judge, but you are certainly judgmental, sanctimonious and repellant. Neither your worldview nor your trash talk have a place in the 21st Century political arena.
You clearly do not understand the reconciliation rules. Any Senator can propose amendments which must be read on the Senate floor by that Senator. How long do you think it would take someone to read a 20,000 page amendment?
One's opinion on abortion has zero bearing on the Constitutionality of Roe.
Here is what too many of you forget. We can't fix anything...we can't advance any conservative principles...we cannot move the nation back towards justice and sanity...we cannot turn the budget around or secure the border....if we lose elections.All very nice. Bravo.
I think its fair to say that nearly everyone here believes in the advancement of conservatism as our governing philosophy...but some of you think simply being conservative results, automatically, in electoral victory. So let me shock some of you...it doesn't. We have to communicate at a human and common sense level...we have to persuade rather than deliver moral lectures from an ivory lectern on rectitude that lack any sense of empathy, love, or understanding...we cannot hide in our mountain cabins spouting cliche's about our own conservative authenticity while making idiotic proclamations that there's no difference between a Mike Pence and a Kamala Harris....and we can't condemn our own leaders when they don't magically fix all of our budget excesses and balance our budget with their magic wands.
We can KNOW where we want conservatism to take us...fiscally...and yet understand what is politically possible for ANY leader. Doing as some here advocate...for example, instantly passing a balanced budget...would have destroyed conservatism as a political force for a generation. We can be principled without being suicidal morons...in political terms.
We DO need to be tactical....we do need to think strategically...we do need to cull RINO's and dingbat NT's like Romney/Bush/Cheney/ and others. We cannot afford to execute a full scale "purging" of the party, nor can we afford to split into 3rd parties and factions. Again, such things can only end in generational defeat.
We have to talk to people at their level...as in reach out to minorities and women and offer COMPASSIONED and reasoned arguments for why conservatism will make their lives better...we need to talk to millenials and younger voters in a way that DOES NOT sound like "grumpy grandpa bah-humbug" ranting. Quite frankly, the way roamer1 communicates his views...is precisely why so many see conservatism as anachronistic, uncaring, and irrational. And I say that KNOWING that roamer is right on nearly every issues...his positions are correct...but commuicating conservatism as a moral and angry sermon turns people to liberalism. ITs a a dimwitted tactic that feels good and loses elections...and losing elections is precisely how conservatism dies.
So quit damn trying to feel good about how f'ing pure you are as a conservative, and start trying to win some people over to our philosophy with reason, compassion and empathy...without all the moral grandstanding, preaching and condescension.
That is how we win....and that is what the President was doing before the NT/RINO's undercut him at every turn and put us ALL where we are now.
All very nice. Bravo.
Now why do you think the RINOs and fellow travelers have so dismally failed to address the latest blatant FRAUD?
I think we are past the point of "winning elections".
Trump slipped by the normal padding for Hillary. After all, the 'fix' was in, and her win assured. Why do you think the Democrats were in shock over 2016? They had the "Madame President" issues all printed up, and SAY WHAT? HE got how many votes?
Of course, that won't happen again, even if they have to stop counting in key states and revamp the whole system in mid stride. WHICH THEY DID.
But here's the catch. The RINOs and GOPe are dancing with that devil, and have been for decades. It's all part of the Kabuki that keeps them trading power back and forth, but ever advancing toward their mutual goal line of a totalitarian state--or at least enough so that they can deem themselves our rulers.
In The Hound of the Baskervilles, the point was made by A. Conan Doyle, and it is relevant here, that the dog which doesn't bark knows its owner.
The GOP didn't bark.
The theft of the 2020 election is a fait accompli, and here isn't a damned thing going to be done about it. The same people who rigged and stole the election are in charge of and complicit with those investigating it.
The same people who couldn't 'see' the ANTIFAs and others who served them a agents provocateur and the real insurrectionists on Capitol Hill, who now are the excuse for the Congress of the United States to hide behind troops and a bastion of fencing and razor wire, more security than since the Army of the Confederate States of America was just a few miles across the River and through the woods, those people are going to spend the foreseeable future finding 'crimes' where there are none and ignoring the egregious violations of the Constitution and the public will, shielded by a press corps that would have made Goebbels proud.
Elections? Silly man, there will be no elections of anyone not approved by the State. You won't even get them nominated, and if you do, they will be shot down in flames like Roy Moore, by a willing and lascivious press and without any support from "their own" Party, because both Parties are in cahoots.
All those years of fractured solidarity, and "mavericks" and "defections"? Pure theater, with the cold calculus of who could survive a 'bad' vote and still gain reelection--which is why those usually came from people who could buy the winning margin with some pork provision or who were from more liberal districts and could count on enough crossover vote to be reelected (assuming there wasn't fraud in the first place).
After this last display of outright THEFT, the whole "in your face" ripoff of this Nation, its policies, its coffers, and the bondage of its people chained to eternal debt, you think We, The People stand a chance of voting our way back to sanity? Oh, hell no. It's going to get a lot crazier before it is over. Don't let your normalcy bias catch you flatfooted. Normal solutions will not work in abnormal times, so unless and until the means of counting, tabulating, casting the ballots are taken back from the thieves, elections won't mean squat.
As was erroneously reported that America was never a Christian nation.
All very nice. Bravo.All true. As I've said, this has been reality in California for a decade or two already. And voters in this former swing state just sat fat, dumb and happy as their birth right was stripped away.
Now why do you think the RINOs and fellow travelers have so dismally failed to address the latest blatant FRAUD?
I think we are past the point of "winning elections".
Trump slipped by the normal padding for Hillary. After all, the 'fix' was in, and her win assured. Why do you think the Democrats were in shock over 2016? They had the "Madame President" issues all printed up, and SAY WHAT? HE got how many votes?
Of course, that won't happen again, even if they have to stop counting in key states and revamp the whole system in mid stride. WHICH THEY DID.
But here's the catch. The RINOs and GOPe are dancing with that devil, and have been for decades. It's all part of the Kabuki that keeps them trading power back and forth, but ever advancing toward their mutual goal line of a totalitarian state--or at least enough so that they can deem themselves our rulers.
In The Hound of the Baskervilles, the point was made by A. Conan Doyle, and it is relevant here, that the dog which doesn't bark knows its owner.
The GOP didn't bark.
The theft of the 2020 election is a fait accompli, and here isn't a damned thing going to be done about it. The same people who rigged and stole the election are in charge of and complicit with those investigating it.
The same people who couldn't 'see' the ANTIFAs and others who served them a agents provocateur and the real insurrectionists on Capitol Hill, who now are the excuse for the Congress of the United States to hide behind troops and a bastion of fencing and razor wire, more security than since the Army of the Confederate States of America was just a few miles across the River and through the woods, those people are going to spend the foreseeable future finding 'crimes' where there are none and ignoring the egregious violations of the Constitution and the public will, shielded by a press corps that would have made Goebbels proud.
Elections? Silly man, there will be no elections of anyone not approved by the State. You won't even get them nominated, and if you do, they will be shot down in flames like Roy Moore, by a willing and lascivious press and without any support from "their own" Party, because both Parties are in cahoots.
All those years of fractured solidarity, and "mavericks" and "defections"? Pure theater, with the cold calculus of who could survive a 'bad' vote and still gain reelection--which is why those usually came from people who could buy the winning margin with some pork provision or who were from more liberal districts and could count on enough crossover vote to be reelected (assuming there wasn't fraud in the first place).
After this last display of outright THEFT, the whole "in your face" ripoff of this Nation, its policies, its coffers, and the bondage of its people chained to eternal debt, you think We, The People stand a chance of voting our way back to sanity? Oh, hell no. It's going to get a lot crazier before it is over. Don't let your normalcy bias catch you flatfooted. Normal solutions will not work in abnormal times, so unless and until the means of counting, tabulating, casting the ballots are taken back from the thieves, elections won't mean squat.
Only thirty years, huh? Gotta love those people who quit early.
The real Americans take their motto from John Carter, Warlord of Barsoom: "I still live."
All very nice. Bravo.
Now why do you think the RINOs and fellow travelers have so dismally failed to address the latest blatant FRAUD?
I think we are past the point of "winning elections".
Trump slipped by the normal padding for Hillary. After all, the 'fix' was in, and her win assured. Why do you think the Democrats were in shock over 2016? They had the "Madame President" issues all printed up, and SAY WHAT? HE got how many votes?
Of course, that won't happen again, even if they have to stop counting in key states and revamp the whole system in mid stride. WHICH THEY DID.
But here's the catch. The RINOs and GOPe are dancing with that devil, and have been for decades. It's all part of the Kabuki that keeps them trading power back and forth, but ever advancing toward their mutual goal line of a totalitarian state--or at least enough so that they can deem themselves our rulers.
In The Hound of the Baskervilles, the point was made by A. Conan Doyle, and it is relevant here, that the dog which doesn't bark knows its owner.
The GOP didn't bark.
The theft of the 2020 election is a fait accompli, and here isn't a damned thing going to be done about it. The same people who rigged and stole the election are in charge of and complicit with those investigating it.
The same people who couldn't 'see' the ANTIFAs and others who served them a agents provocateur and the real insurrectionists on Capitol Hill, who now are the excuse for the Congress of the United States to hide behind troops and a bastion of fencing and razor wire, more security than since the Army of the Confederate States of America was just a few miles across the River and through the woods, those people are going to spend the foreseeable future finding 'crimes' where there are none and ignoring the egregious violations of the Constitution and the public will, shielded by a press corps that would have made Goebbels proud.
Elections? Silly man, there will be no elections of anyone not approved by the State. You won't even get them nominated, and if you do, they will be shot down in flames like Roy Moore, by a willing and lascivious press and without any support from "their own" Party, because both Parties are in cahoots.
All those years of fractured solidarity, and "mavericks" and "defections"? Pure theater, with the cold calculus of who could survive a 'bad' vote and still gain reelection--which is why those usually came from people who could buy the winning margin with some pork provision or who were from more liberal districts and could count on enough crossover vote to be reelected (assuming there wasn't fraud in the first place).
After this last display of outright THEFT, the whole "in your face" ripoff of this Nation, its policies, its coffers, and the bondage of its people chained to eternal debt, you think We, The People stand a chance of voting our way back to sanity? Oh, hell no. It's going to get a lot crazier before it is over. Don't let your normalcy bias catch you flatfooted. Normal solutions will not work in abnormal times, so unless and until the means of counting, tabulating, casting the ballots are taken back from the thieves, elections won't mean squat.
Yes. The law stands.
The law stands ignored.
When did the United States Supreme Court assume the powers of the legislature and began crafting laws?
Roe v Wade is a wrong DECISION. Not a law.
Want to know what the law says?
The law says "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger;"
That's what the law says.
See anything there about penumbras or choice?
Thank God for that. I would be really concerned if the people who murder babies liked me.
Only thirty years, huh? Gotta love those people who quit early.
The real Americans take their motto from John Carter, Warlord of Barsoom: "I still live."
Thank God for that. I would be really concerned if the people who murder babies liked me.
In The Hound of the Baskervilles, the point was made by A. Conan Doyle, and it is relevant here, that the dog which doesn't bark knows its owner.
The GOP didn't bark.
All those years of fractured solidarity, and "mavericks" and "defections"? Pure theater, with the cold calculus of who could survive a 'bad' vote and still gain reelection--which is why those usually came from people who could buy the winning margin with some pork provision or who were from more liberal districts and could count on enough crossover vote to be reelected (assuming there wasn't fraud in the first place).
Can anyone provide me with the bonefied definition of "Republican"? You know, the one everybody agrees upon.
Can anyone provide me with the bonefied definition of "Republican"? You know, the one everybody agrees upon.
All very nice. Bravo.
Now why do you think the RINOs and fellow travelers have so dismally failed to address the latest blatant FRAUD?
I think we are past the point of "winning elections".
Trump slipped by the normal padding for Hillary. After all, the 'fix' was in, and her win assured. Why do you think the Democrats were in shock over 2016? They had the "Madame President" issues all printed up, and SAY WHAT? HE got how many votes?
Of course, that won't happen again, even if they have to stop counting in key states and revamp the whole system in mid stride. WHICH THEY DID.
But here's the catch. The RINOs and GOPe are dancing with that devil, and have been for decades. It's all part of the Kabuki that keeps them trading power back and forth, but ever advancing toward their mutual goal line of a totalitarian state--or at least enough so that they can deem themselves our rulers.
In The Hound of the Baskervilles, the point was made by A. Conan Doyle, and it is relevant here, that the dog which doesn't bark knows its owner.
The GOP didn't bark.
The theft of the 2020 election is a fait accompli, and here isn't a damned thing going to be done about it. The same people who rigged and stole the election are in charge of and complicit with those investigating it.
The same people who couldn't 'see' the ANTIFAs and others who served them a agents provocateur and the real insurrectionists on Capitol Hill, who now are the excuse for the Congress of the United States to hide behind troops and a bastion of fencing and razor wire, more security than since the Army of the Confederate States of America was just a few miles across the River and through the woods, those people are going to spend the foreseeable future finding 'crimes' where there are none and ignoring the egregious violations of the Constitution and the public will, shielded by a press corps that would have made Goebbels proud.
Elections? Silly man, there will be no elections of anyone not approved by the State. You won't even get them nominated, and if you do, they will be shot down in flames like Roy Moore, by a willing and lascivious press and without any support from "their own" Party, because both Parties are in cahoots.
All those years of fractured solidarity, and "mavericks" and "defections"? Pure theater, with the cold calculus of who could survive a 'bad' vote and still gain reelection--which is why those usually came from people who could buy the winning margin with some pork provision or who were from more liberal districts and could count on enough crossover vote to be reelected (assuming there wasn't fraud in the first place).
After this last display of outright THEFT, the whole "in your face" ripoff of this Nation, its policies, its coffers, and the bondage of its people chained to eternal debt, you think We, The People stand a chance of voting our way back to sanity? Oh, hell no. It's going to get a lot crazier before it is over. Don't let your normalcy bias catch you flatfooted. Normal solutions will not work in abnormal times, so unless and until the means of counting, tabulating, casting the ballots are taken back from the thieves, elections won't mean squat.
Can anyone provide me with the bonefied definition of "Republican"? You know, the one everybody agrees upon.
If no one can define what a "republican" is how in the hell can they label anyone a RINO?
If no one can define what a "republican" is how in the hell can they label anyone a RINO?
Let's go back to 2010. The Democrats pass Obamacare through reconciliation. Not a single Republican votes for it, but not a single Republican tries to stop it either. The bill could have been tied up for eternity with an endless parade of amendments. But they simply didn't have it in them. Instead, they turn to us - the TEA Conservatives. They said that if we got out there with enough support to give them control of the House, they would be able to reverse Obamacare. This is exactly what Conservatives did. They turned out and handed the Speaker position over to the GOP. And in 2011, what did John Boehner and his new Republican majority do? They fully funded ObamaCare. 2012? Same thing. And again in 2013. By 2014, they cried about how they couldn't do it without the Senate. So Conservatives turned out again and gave the GOP control of the Senate too.
So in 2015 with both Houses of Congress under GOP control, do you think they defunded Obamacare? Nope. In 2016, the new cry became the White House. They needed a Republican President to get the deed done. So once again, Conservatives turned out and got Trump elected.
Now it's 2017. Republicans control the House. Republicans control the Senate. Republicans control the White House. Yet ObamaCare still gets funded. The Federal government still mandates what must be covered. The deduction for medical costs remains at 10% instead of reverting back to 7.5%, hurting those with chronic health issues the most. And the taxpayer is still on the hook for other people's insurance that now costs four times what it cost before because of government mandates. The only thing that changed was that a tax (for which there was no penalty for avoiding and no mechanism for enforcing) got removed. Everything else remained in place. Everything.
This is what happened when we won elections. And they were won because there was a Conservative cause at stake. Well I for one am sick and tired of being lied to.
The Republican Party clearly does not.
I don't feel good. I feel betrayed. Seriously, I can't even get the Republican Party to put safeguards in place that will block an individual ballot from being counted more than once in an election. Never mind something complex like honoring their word to repeal ObamaCare or defunding Planned Parenthood.
I do that on a daily basis. Yet all I get back is how people like me are the problem, and how we must give out free sh*t just like the Democrats do in order to win elections, all while our very party sells us out.
The GOP was undercutting Trump from the day following the 2016 GOP Convention until now. Trump simply didn't recognize it. Personally, I don't have a problem with Trump. But I have a hell of a big problem with the GOP from top to bottom. They alone are to blame for Biden occupying the White House. They alone are to blame for Dem control of the House and Senate. And they alone are to blame for the $1.9 trillion slush fund that Democrats just voted themselves to carry them through the next eight years of elections.
I understand the Rodents needed 60 Senators to vote to pass the bill, and they only had 59 plus one fraudulent pervert.
I also understand that tax bills must originate in the House. MessiahCare originated in the Senate.
I understand that the Constitution does not permit the federal government to create health coverage.
If you're going to go on and on about rules, you should start with the big rules, not the little ones.
And, of course, there's that little thing about "my body, my choice". The Rodents decided people don't have the freedom to choose what to do with the insurance coverage on their bodies. They are property, obviously, not sovereign citizens.
If no one can define what a "republican" is how in the hell can they label anyone a RINO?
If no one can define what a "republican" is how in the hell can they label anyone a RINO?
Under reconciliation, they only need a simple majority since debate can be thwarted without a cloture vote. However, the tradeoff is that amendment process cannot be blocked, and amendments have to be read out loud in full on the Senate floor by the person submitting them.
Again, how long do you think it would take for one Senator to read a 20,000 page amendment? Take that number, multiply by 40, and then repeat the process again for the second round of amendments. Republicans can block any reconciliation bill through this process. Their failure to do so shows they are either pathetically lazy and unworthy of our votes or that they are collaborators and unworthy of our votes.
Even more reason the Republicans should have tried to block it. But they didn't.
Even more reason the Republicans should have tried to block it. But they didn't.
Republican Senators took a solemn oath to uphold and defend those big rules against all enemies, foreign and domestic. They failed to even put up a fight. They are collaborators through and through.
And the Republicans didn't lift a finger to stop it, nor have they lifted a finger since. Each and every year since, the GOP has upheld this with full funding. And for four of those years, Trump's signature can be found at the bottom.
"RINO" has long been a bone of contention with me @Bigun The term is tossed at republicans who are not conservative enough so they are "Republican in Name Only". Hopefully, the jackass who coined this has been drummed out of politics.
The term assumes something that just isn't so .... it assumes the Republican Party is a Conservative Party when it is not and never has been. Republicans have long been the center-right elitists -- socially liberal. with an emphasis on banking and big business, of which the military-industrial complex is one.
In truth, conservatives are a minority within a minority national political party.
You are simply incorrect. The reading of amendments can be removed at any moment via a rules change motion from the majority leader.... and confirmation of that change via a 51-50 vote. If you think we can hold this off using procedural measures you’re dreaming....the majority can set and reset any procedure they want with a simple majority vote.
Not with reconciliation. To change those rules requires 67 Senators.
They can drop the 60 vote rule entirely with 51 votes...then change the floor rules regarding the reading of amendments with 51 as well. Remember....these are only rules. There is no rule that cannot be changed with 51 votes in the Senate. The constitution required majority votes on legislation....everything else in terms of getting to a vote is a rule that can be changed with 51 as well.
I wasn't aware that there was a distinction between the two.
@Sled Dog
I don't "murder babies",and neither does anyone else that I know. Murder is a legal term. Even abortion doctors don't "murder" babies. They just kill them.
Can anyone provide me with the bonefied definition of "Republican"? You know, the one everybody agrees upon.
If no one can define what a "republican" is how in the hell can they label anyone a RINO?
There is no 60-vote rule with reconciliation. The 60-vote rule is for cloture. Reconciliation has no cloture because reconciliation has no debate.
Must be nice to quibble while the tiny corpses are flushed down the drain or chopped into parts for the resale market and the rest of the little people are sent to the crematoria.
They're people.
They're innocent people.
Thye're innocent people who are killed for profit.
That make it not only murder, but first degree murder.
But I understand how the diseased minds don't want to admit that they're supporting the mass murder of millions upon millions of tiny babies while the murderers rake in huge profits.QuoteI'm glad I don't share your burden of guilt.
@Sled Dog
You poor bay-bay! And here I am,guilt-free. Never took any part in any abortion in my life ,and did my best to stop the ONE abortion I knew was going to happen before it happened.
Even offered to marry the girl and be named as the father on the birth certificate to save her embarrassment if she decided to have the baby.
I have nothing to apologize OR feel sorry for,so don't be holding any pity parties for me.
QuoteAnd I see you're using the lying tactic of pretending that the murders being performed are "for the health of the incubator", when that is demonstrably untrue.
I tell you true when I say I do NOT lie. You need to back away from that.QuoteAnd in the rare, VERY RARE, cases where it's necessary to terminate a pregnancy for maternal health reasons, then it truly is a self-defense reason.
But that's almost never necessary and almost all pre-natal baby-murders are done for issues of convenience to the incubators and the hacks that do the deed for them are not doctors since they have violated the Hippocratic Oath.
See,even YOU admit there are exceptions.
Right. And reconciliation is only a once per year use (technically 3 in certain circumstances but in actuality one). But as I said...that’s just a rule. Likewise, reading amendments word for word without limit outside of reconciliation...is just a rule. As such it can be overridden via a motion from the majority leader and brought to an end with a 51-50 vote...as is the case with ANY rule in the Senate.
Must be nice to quibble while the tiny corpses are flushed down the drain or chopped into parts for the resale market and the rest of the little people are sent to the crematoria.QFT Well said.
They're people.
They're innocent people.
Thye're innocent people who are killed for profit.
That make it not only murder, but first degree murder.
But I understand how the diseased minds don't want to admit that they're supporting the mass murder of millions upon millions of tiny babies while the murderers rake in huge profits.
I'm glad I don't share your burden of guilt.
I can still be honest about my relationship with my dictionary.
And I see you're using the lying tactic of pretending that the murders being performed are "for the health of the incubator", when that is demonstrably untrue.
And in the rare, VERY RARE, cases where it's necessary to terminate a pregnancy for maternal health reasons, then it truly is a self-defense reason.
But that's almost never necessary and almost all pre-natal baby-murders are done for issues of convenience to the incubators and the hacks that do the deed for them are not doctors since they have violated the Hippocratic Oath.
Must be nice to quibble while the tiny corpses are flushed down the drain or chopped into parts for the resale market and the rest of the little people are sent to the crematoria.
They're people.
They're innocent people.
Thye're innocent people who are killed for profit.
That make it not only murder, but first degree murder.
But I understand how the diseased minds don't want to admit that they're supporting the mass murder of millions upon millions of tiny babies while the murderers rake in huge profits.
I'm glad I don't share your burden of guilt.
I can still be honest about my relationship with my dictionary.
And I see you're using the lying tactic of pretending that the murders being performed are "for the health of the incubator", when that is demonstrably untrue.
And in the rare, VERY RARE, cases where it's necessary to terminate a pregnancy for maternal health reasons, then it truly is a self-defense reason.
But that's almost never necessary and almost all pre-natal baby-murders are done for issues of convenience to the incubators and the hacks that do the deed for them are not doctors since they have violated the Hippocratic Oath.
I take you all seriously. Don't get me wrong, but...You all make me LOL.As is anyone who thinks. Why do you think they round up the "intellectuals" first?
I am an enemy of the state.
As is anyone who thinks. Why do you think they round up the "intellectuals" first?
A Republican is an American.I'm going to disagree, here, and ask only that you let me explain.
A RINO is a creature claiming to be a Republican who acts like any other Rodent.
Rodents are creatures which have befouled America since it's inception and who are now openly fascist and proud of their hatred for America.
RINOs are usually easy to spot. They pretend to be Republicans, but not only claim Trump lost the election but insist it's his fault.
Rule XXII - Precedence of motion
. . . ’ And if that question shall be decided in the affirmative
by three-fifths of the Senators duly chosen and sworn—except on
a measure or motion to amend the Senate rules, in which case the
necessary affirmative vote shall be two-thirds of the Senators
present and voting . . .
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CDOC-113sdoc18/pdf/CDOC-113sdoc18.pdf#page=22
You’ve cited the rule of how amendments are currently voted upon under normal rules of order.
That rule can be changed with a 51-50 vote just as the filibuster can be changed with a 51-50 vote.
People like Ronald Reagan (who, while not completely Conservative, is about as close as we have hit in the post WWII years) are the fliers in the pattern, it is the the group that is off target, at least for those of us who really love the Constitution, the concept of a Constitutionally limited Federal Government, and Liberty.
People like Ronald Reagan (who, while not completely Conservative, is about as close as we have hit in the post WWII years)
I think it might help to define conservatism if you would articulate what President Reagan accomplished that makes him the prototype for subsequent conservative political leaders.Actually, I didn't say he was a prototype, just closer than most.
Thanks @Smokin Joe
No, I cited how Senate rules can be changed. Again, a measure or motion to amend the Senate rules requires the vote of two-thirds of the Senators present and voting.
No. The filibuster rule cannot be "changed' with only 51 votes. However, it can be discarded altogether with 51 votes by deeming it "unconstitutional" which is what the Dems would have to do to eliminate it.
This tactic cannot be employed when it comes to Senate rules, because to do so would be a declaration that the Senate making its own rules violates the Constitution and would nullify this bill, Obamacare, and any other bill passed under reconciliation.
Now. I will acknowledge that this...based on long established precedent...should be used only at the stage of the legislative process when a "new" Senate begins it term (which is every 2 years in this context). Literally, at that point, every single rule of the Senate can be removed...and an entirely new set of rules put in effect...with a simple majority vote (as long as the new rule does not contradict a constitutional power of the Senate such as requirements for approving treaties, impeachment, etcetera. Everything else can be entirely tossed out and new rules reasserted. What gets a bit "hinky" is determining the length of time in which a Senate term is considered "new" enough that the rules can be reset...a court could rule that this is a window of time (say 60, 90, or 120 days). Or, a court...most likely considering the history of the Roberts court...could defer to the Senate to determine what "new" means in this context.
See,even YOU admit there are exceptions.
I think it might help to define conservatism if you would articulate what President Reagan accomplished that makes him the prototype for subsequent conservative political leaders.
Thanks @Smokin Joe
I am too square to round me up.
See,even YOU admit there are exceptions.
I'm going to disagree, here, and ask only that you let me explain.
What everyone, under the assumption that the GOP is the Conservative Party, has forgotten, is that the only way the GOP is "conservative" comes from being a bit more conservative than the Democrats, not from getting enough Conservative Merit Badges to become an Eagle Scout.
Look at their arguments for minimum wage limits. All conservatives support a minimum wage law. That law would state simply that people should not have to pay their employer to work.
I see what you did there, but no. If two people voluntarily contract in such a way that says the eployee wants to pay the employer for the right to work, that's just fine with me. And such conditions CAN exist.
I would happily pay to work under a master machinist or fabricator, just to increase my knowledge.
That's not quite what I meant, you're saying that paying for an apprenticeship is acceptable, and I agree with that.
I was just trying to be snarky about saying that the real minimum is zero, of course.
Well, too be accurate, what Rodents do to their slave population is round them down.
Actually, I didn't say he was a prototype, just closer than most.
Fair enough @Smokin Joe happy77Because Ronald Reagan is as close as you're going to get to a true conservative. Trump was a conservative. Being like Reagan or Trump is not hurting the cause.
I still wish someone would explain how/why Ronald Reagan is the iconic conservative political leader.
Why are so many conservatives clinging to Ronald Reagan with bloody fingernails? I think this is starting to hurt us exponentially. :shrug:
Because Ronald Reagan is as close as you're going to get to a true conservative. Trump was a conservative. Being like Reagan or Trump is not hurting the cause.
There is something seriously wrong with people who believe murdering babies is fun.
Because Ronald Reagan is as close as you're going to get to a true conservative. Trump was a conservative. Being like Reagan or Trump is not hurting the cause..
@Sled DogDemonrats don't want you to shoot a deer but murdering defenseless babies is just another good time. More black lives that don't matter.
I can honestly say that in all my life,I have NEVER heard anyone I know say that,or even hint at it.
You need some new friends.
.I think there are some others that could carry on what Trump started if he doesn't run again. I saw that Candace Owen's might run in 2024. In 2024 I will vote for a strong America First candidate only. In 2022 we need to put strong America First conservatives in office and get rid of the backstabbing two face RINO trash in the house and Senate. If the voter fraud problem isn't fixed first it won't matter.
@Killer Clouds @Right_in_Virginia
I think a better way to explain that is that Ronald Reagan was a VERY likeable guy,and Trump isn't.
In Trump's defense,as well as Reagans,the time to be likeable in politics is long past. We can no longer influence the political future of the nation by being reasonable and likeable. Times have changed,and so has the American people,thanks to all the conflicts brewed up by the Dims since Reagan took office.
What we need AT THIS TIME in our nation is a president who will beat the Dims over the head with facts as well as accomplishments,and NOT apologize for doing it. In FACT,we need a President that will rub their noses in it so that Steve and Susie Sixpack sit up and finally start to take notice of how far left the Dims have brought us,and how much we need to change.
You can't accomplish that by playing kissy-face with your political enemies. And that IS what they are. They are NOT "colleague's" with different opinions,they are ENEMIES to America and to individual freedoms.
To sum it up,we need Trump again in 2024 because there is nobody else like him available.
Fair enough @Smokin Joe happy77
I still wish someone would explain how/why Ronald Reagan is the iconic conservative political leader.
Why are so many conservatives clinging to Ronald Reagan with bloody fingernails? I think this is starting to hurt us exponentially. :shrug:
Fair enough @Smokin Joe happy77For many, he was the last most conservative POTUS, often the only one in their lifetime. Like his policy or not, he comported himself with dignity and grace and possessed a likeable sense of humour even the democrats had a hard time resisting. Plus, a few quotable quotes, especially "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."
I still wish someone would explain how/why Ronald Reagan is the iconic conservative political leader.
Why are so many conservatives clinging to Ronald Reagan with bloody fingernails? I think this is starting to hurt us exponentially. :shrug:
Why does the GOP need to keep or attract the never-Trumpers? The Democrats are their own worst enemy. Their social justice warriors will overreach and drive the silent majority into the arms of Republican candidates.
Reagan did two things that matter greatly.
First he made room at the Conservative Table for the Christian Right in the face of moral decadence sweeping the nation. Goldwater Conservatism was just fine in a time when Judeo-Christian principles were matter-of-factly part of every day life. but in the face of abortion, and the ten commandments coming off the wall and prayer being outlawed in school, there was no where to represent moral conservatism until Reagan made a way. And that is what won him the election.
And secondly, more than any other, he put together the idea that if you are a fiscal conservative as an instance, it is no skin off your nose to vote for a fiscal conservative that is also a libertarian minded,
And no, what is hurting you is the exact opposite: Hell y'all have not supported fiscal conservatism or libertarianism since he left office, other than for a brief moment during Contract w/ America. And y'all still don't to this day. And as a matter of course the Christian Right gets lip service (because you need the votes) as does the military (because you need the power).
Put up or shut up. There's your problem.
Reagan increased the national debt by $1.86 trillion (+186%).
For many, he was the last most conservative POTUS, often the only one in their lifetime. Like his policy or not, he comported himself with dignity and grace and possessed a likeable sense of humour even the democrats had a hard time resisting. Plus, a few quotable quotes, especially "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."
SOMEBODY has to be the grownups... And take away their birthday, cut up the credit cards, throw out the frat parties, pay the bills and mow the damn lawn. That, it turns out, is never gonna be the GOP.
Good post.
888high58888
Reagan increased the national debt by $1.86 trillion (+186%).
Reagan invested in winning the Cold War. His defense expenditures yielded the Peace Dividend. Defense spending went from 7% of GDP to below 3% in 2000.
Demonrats don't want you to shoot a deer but murdering defenseless babies is just another good time. More black lives that don't matter.
I think there are some others that could carry on what Trump started if he doesn't run again. I saw that Candace Owen's might run in 2024. In 2024 I will vote for a strong America First candidate only. In 2022 we need to put strong America First conservatives in office and get rid of the backstabbing two face RINO trash in the house and Senate. If the voter fraud problem isn't fixed first it won't matter.
QuoteWhy does the GOP need to keep or attract the never-Trumpers?
@DefiantMassRINO
IMNSHO,we don't. Getting rid of them is like having a cancer removed from the body public. They are the enemy,yet we (the collective "we",not you and I) keep kissing their asses and voting for them in the vain hope they will feel grateful and turn conservative. AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. These creatures are Dims that happened to run as Republicans because there were no Dim seats open the first time they ran for office,so it was run as a Republican,or stay home.QuoteThe Democrats are their own worst enemy. Their social justice warriors will overreach and drive the silent majority into the arms of Republican candidates.
I ain't buying it for a couple of reasons. Number one,and personal,is my dream is to have them think that *I* am their worse enemy. Someone that ain't buying the crap they are selling.
The other is that the so-called "Silent Majority" remains silent because they like being bought off by the Dims and their RINO brothers. In short,THEY are buying what the Dims and RINO's are selling.
The ONLY way we can change this is to elect someone who doesn't run around playing "kissy face" with the Dims and/or the political "pundits" on the teebee shows. Someone who stands up on his hind feet and SCREAMS "THIS WILL NOT STAND!" when they try to get a Anti-American bill passed in Congress. Someone not afraid to "name names" and give examples of their corruption live,and on national tv.
Seems like there was someone around not that long ago that was doing just that. I think his name was Donald something or another. Anyone know who I am referring to?
Face reality,folks,there is not a PROFESSIONAL politician in the country that is going to stand up on his hind legs and scream "FOUL!" when he sees or hears about some bill the Dims and their RINO butt-buddies are trying to pass that has anti-American legislation hidden away somewhere deep in the folds.
Notice the word "professional" that is highlighted and in bold. The reason I empathized that word is because there is no longer such a thing as a career politician from either party that doesn't have at least a whiff of "political corruption" floating around his or her presence. They are guilty of this for a variety of reasons. Maybe the most prominent is backroom agreements with the other party that "If you scratch my back on THIS bill,I will scratch YOUR back on the next bill that is important to your party." Do that often enough,and you are a member of the "Backscratching Party",not a Republican or a Dim,but a member of the party of "Me,me,ME,DAMMIT!" It all becomes about staying in office regardless of what they do to the nation.
Almost everyone in Congress these days is more of an internationalist than they are Americans. Even a retard like Biden has a son with board seats on foreign corporations his father and accomplices were supposed to be monitoring to make sure they didn't do anything anti-American and cut off their foreign aid money coming from America if they did. On top of that,he is not even required to attend board meetings,and STILL gets his full pay!
And no effort at all was even made to try to hide it. Hell,they are proud of it!
Why aren't the Republicans raising hell about that every day,you ask? Chances are because they are doing similar things,but staying quieter about it.
And YET,some of you people are STILL demanding we get behind one of the Republican Party usual suspects and support him or her for President in 2024?????
WTF ARE YOU PEOPLE THINKING?
@DefiantMassRINOIn my opinion the only 9nes making noise are "the new kids on the block" the everyone is calling bat shit crazy. I say let them stir it up. We need to get rid of all the career politicians. Ask Snitch McConnell how the Chinese are treating him and his inlaws.
IMNSHO,we don't. Getting rid of them is like having a cancer removed from the body public. They are the enemy,yet we (the collective "we",not you and I) keep kissing their asses and voting for them in the vain hope they will feel grateful and turn conservative. AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. These creatures are Dims that happened to run as Republicans because there were no Dim seats open the first time they ran for office,so it was run as a Republican,or stay home.
I ain't buying it for a couple of reasons. Number one,and personal,is my dream is to have them think that *I* am their worse enemy. Someone that ain't buying the crap they are selling.
The other is that the so-called "Silent Majority" remains silent because they like being bought off by the Dims and their RINO brothers. In short,THEY are buying what the Dims and RINO's are selling.
The ONLY way we can change this is to elect someone who doesn't run around playing "kissy face" with the Dims and/or the political "pundits" on the teebee shows. Someone who stands up on his hind feet and SCREAMS "THIS WILL NOT STAND!" when they try to get a Anti-American bill passed in Congress. Someone not afraid to "name names" and give examples of their corruption live,and on national tv.
Seems like there was someone around not that long ago that was doing just that. I think his name was Donald something or another. Anyone know who I am referring to?
Face reality,folks,there is not a PROFESSIONAL politician in the country that is going to stand up on his hind legs and scream "FOUL!" when he sees or hears about some bill the Dims and their RINO butt-buddies are trying to pass that has anti-American legislation hidden away somewhere deep in the folds.
Notice the word "professional" that is highlighted and in bold. The reason I empathized that word is because there is no longer such a thing as a career politician from either party that doesn't have at least a whiff of "political corruption" floating around his or her presence. They are guilty of this for a variety of reasons. Maybe the most prominent is backroom agreements with the other party that "If you scratch my back on THIS bill,I will scratch YOUR back on the next bill that is important to your party." Do that often enough,and you are a member of the "Backscratching Party",not a Republican or a Dim,but a member of the party of "Me,me,ME,DAMMIT!" It all becomes about staying in office regardless of what they do to the nation.
Almost everyone in Congress these days is more of an internationalist than they are Americans. Even a retard like Biden has a son with board seats on foreign corporations his father and accomplices were supposed to be monitoring to make sure they didn't do anything anti-American and cut off their foreign aid money coming from America if they did. On top of that,he is not even required to attend board meetings,and STILL gets his full pay!
And no effort at all was even made to try to hide it. Hell,they are proud of it!
Why aren't the Republicans raising hell about that every day,you ask? Chances are because they are doing similar things,but staying quieter about it.
And YET,some of you people are STILL demanding we get behind one of the Republican Party usual suspects and support him or her for President in 2024?????
WTF ARE YOU PEOPLE THINKING?
In my opinion the only 9nes making noise are "the new kids on the block" the everyone is calling bat shit crazy. I say let them stir it up. We need to get rid of all the career politicians. Ask Snitch McConnell how the Chinese are treating him and his inlaws.I'm enjoying the heck out of watching Marjorie Taylor Greene stir the pot. They screwed up taking her committee assignments away and now she has time to throw monkey wrenches.
I'm enjoying the heck out of watching Marjorie Taylor Greene stir the pot. They screwed up taking her committee assignments away and now she has time to throw monkey wrenches.That was my thought. She might be a bit crazy but I like alot of things she says and I hope she keeps stirring it up.
That was my thought. She might be a bit crazy but I like alot of things she says and I hope she keeps stirring it up.She isn't as crazy sounding as the MSM make her out to be. That's a standard marginalizing tactic used to make someone 'radioactive' when their statements are hitting close to home. All the BS about "Jewish Space Lasers" and other kooky stuff is pretty much nonsense from the MSM at, likely the behest of both sides of the aisle (who aren't doing sh*t to slow the juggernaut, an indicator they're all happy to be working against America from within their armed compound).
No, apparently the grownups run to their room (cabin) and cry on their bed about how everyone else let THEM down by not doing exactly as they wanted. Or perhaps a better analogy...take their ball and go home, pouting about everyone else's shortcomings.
Yes, Reagan welcomed socially conservative Christians into the political tent. Neither abortion nor outlawing school prayer was changed during the Reagan administration.
Reagan increased the national debt by $1.86 trillion (+186%).
Psychobabble.
So fiscal conservatism is fluid?
Reagan increased the national debt by $1.86 trillion (+186%).
Nor was it expected to be. Thirty YEARS later, there is an assumption that SOMETHING should have been done by now. But it ain't. Not a damn thing.
Again, expectations were low, because he was coming off forty years of democrat control of congress Jimmah's malaise, and was instituting a ground-up military rebuild.
I understand the style side of Reagan's profile. He was affable and graceful.
I'm trying to find the policy side of Reagan's profile ... what do we point to from the Reagan administration and say "this is what a conservative can and should accomplish" or "this is what we need to build on"?
So fiscal conservatism is fluid?
Are you saying Reagan, THE conservative icon, wasn't expected to do anything to combat moral decline in the two examples you gave: abortion and the ban on school prayer --- but we should, most definitely, blame everyone who came after him for not moving the needle?
Why the special dispensation for President Reagan?
So it's okay that Reagan didn't govern as a fiscal conservative (adding $1.86 trillion to the debt) because we had low expectations of him and times were tough? And, if I understand you correctly, conservative fiscal responsibility doesn't apply if we spend money we don't have on the military --- in addition to the "usual" expenditures such as welfare programs and health care. Do I have this correct?
How about during a pandemic? Would spending money we don't have to cover economic losses incurred through a global pandemic, in addition to "usual" expenditures such as welfare programs and health care, be allowed under conservative fiscal governance?
Because it was all brand new under him.
Yeah, that's about right. When forty years of Democrat depredations left our military in scandalous shape, sure that's a money thing. And he did not have a Republican congress to help him along.
No one is going to say there is never a time to use the credit card.
What was brand new under Ronald Reagan?
The military after eight years of Obama didn't even have bullets.
Are you agreeing that the debt President Trump incurred to rebuild the military was necessary and money well spent?
First time for everything. I think I'll just luxuriate in this admission from "Mr. One Issue Only: The Debt! The Debt! Dammit! The Debt!". :laugh:
The consolidation and implementation of the Christian Right into the Conservative Coalition.
@Bigun: This is the "Tyranny of the Majority."
@Bigun: This is the "Tyranny of the Majority."And here it is: U.S. Cities are Home to 62.7 Percent of the U.S. Population, but Comprise Just 3.5 Percent of Land Area
So, are you saying this pointing-up is the Reagan Administration's conservative accomplishment?
If so, we may need to revisit the whole icon thing.
sneakypete:
Mankind was ruled more by superstition and fear back then than reason,but the Founding Fathers were courageous enough to insist on the Separation of Church and State on the Federal Level. Eventually,things like Witch Burnings were even made crimes,which I have no doubt some of you deeply regret.
christian:
Odd how Separation of Church and State is applied to government and Christianity, but Islam is exempt and ushered into government with respect. How is it only Christianity is a religion that applies to Separation of Church and State, and Islam gets not just a pass but privileged.......No criticism?
---
@christian
I have wondered about that myself.
Article 3 Of the Northwest Treaty that our government made with indian tribes.
And whereas, The greater part of the said tribe have been baptised and received into the Catholic church to which they are much attached, the United States will give annually for seven years one hundred dollars towards the support of a priest of that religion, who will engage to perform for the said tribe the duties of his office and also to instruct as many of their children as possible in the rudiments of literature.
---
Yeah, the American government has engaged in advancing Christianity and paid for it. Public education has stained many young brains, brainwashed liberally.
I guess it wasn't enough to take their lands and put them on reservations,they had to inflict Catholicism on them also?
BTW,this is the very first time I heard about this.
You would have to visit it first in order to revisit it. You have knocked principled conservatism since I've met you,
You would have to visit it first in order to revisit it. You have knocked principled conservatism since I've met you, And have had little understanding all the way along.
The difference between Reagan and Tumpy (and your movement with him) is that Reagan preserved and added to Conservatism. All y'all just mean to take away from it. No different than any other hyphenated 'conservatism' And careful in your ridicule. Were it not for the Christian Right, the Republicans would not have won an election one.
Let the record show: I have knocked *you*.
No, you have knocked Conservatism, all the way along.
@roamer_1 According to you, his primary defense lawyer, Reagan's most conservative accomplishment in 8 years at the helm is the political power he gave to the Christian right. And, yes, Reagan was also affable and graceful.
Big effing whoop! This is the man you keep on a pedestal and guard with a constant barrage of circular fire??? This is the man still being used as a wedge issue by conservatives?? Stupid, This. Is. Stupid.
Reagan was a fine, populist president. 30 years later Donald Trump with take the Reagan presidency and raise it to the higher conservative power. We should all be pleased; really pleased.
When comparing Reagan with Trump, stop confusing style with substance --- for both men.
No, I have not. Conservative principles are fine, I have zero problem with them. In fact, I see and acknowledge their value.
Sanctimonious blowhards wrapping themselves in conservative principles like a bubble boy get on my nerves. No fault of theirs, I just don't like sanctimonious bubble boys. :shrug:
LOL! Without the Christian Right, there is nothing. They ALONE are capable of 60m votes or more - Who really knows, as no one has got them to come out in unison for years.
Reagan Was a Conservative FIRST, straight outta the Goldwater wing.
And he did NOTHING for Conservatism. It's all gone. Like every populist, he threw candy from the front of the parade. 'Higher conservative power' my ass.
Oh believe me, I'm not. One had style and substance - the other, not so much.
If Christians don't want to vote MAGA, good for them. I suspect we won't lose all. But time is too short to argue with the weak-minded. It's time to shake the dust off our feet and move on.
Goldwater didn't have any conservative accomplishments, either? Damn, just damn. You're clearing off lots of pedestals today.
Actually, I think your ass is a lower conservative power. But, judging by your rising fury, you're finally understanding Donald Trump was our most conservative president in 35 years.
Welcome aboard!
I agree. Donald Trump has a litany of conservative accomplishments in just four years.
Don't blame RINOs, those aren't RINOs, they're the GOP front line, their stock in trade.
It's the Conservatives on Capitol Hill who are Republican in name only.
Don't blame RINOs, those aren't RINOs, they're the GOP front line, their stock in trade.
It's the Conservatives on Capitol Hill who are Republican in name only.
The problem wasn't who we had in the White House, it's who we have in the Congress.
.
Where? They're all gone. Like a fart in a hurricane. What Reagan built s what you are trying to tear down and replace - yet here it is, all these many years later. That is called a legacy.
What did Reagan build? The biggest deficits we'd ever seen up to that point.
Nothing Reagan did lasted.
That charge works on ANY president.
What did Reagan build? The biggest deficits we'd ever seen up to that point.
What did Reagan build? The biggest deficits we'd ever seen up to that point.
The GOP should start by making this column required reading!
Democracy and Tyranny (https://thenewamerican.com/democracy-and-tyranny/)
During President Donald J. Trump’s impeachment trial, we’ll hear a lot of talk about our rules for governing. One frequent claim is that our nation is a democracy. If we’ve become a democracy, it would represent a deep betrayal of our founders, who saw democracy as another form of tyranny. In fact, the word democracy appears nowhere in our nation’s two most fundamental documents, the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution. The founders laid the ground rules for a republic as written in the Constitution’s Article IV, Section 4, which guarantees “to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government.â€
John Adams captured the essence of the difference between a democracy and republic when he said, “You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe.†Contrast the framers’ vision of a republic with that of a democracy. In a democracy, the majority rules either directly or through its elected representatives. As in a monarchy, the law is whatever the government determines it to be. Laws do not represent reason. They represent power. The restraint is upon the individual instead of the government. Unlike that envisioned under a republican form of government, rights are seen as privileges and permissions that are granted by government and can be rescinded by government.
Here are a few quotations that demonstrate the contempt that our founders held for a democracy. James Madison, in Federalist Paper No. 10, wrote that in a pure democracy, “there is nothing to check the inducement to sacrifice the weaker party or the obnoxious individual.â€
At the 1787 Constitutional Convention, Edmund Randolph said that “in tracing these evils to their origin every man had found it in the turbulence and follies of democracy.†Alexander Hamilton agreed, saying: “We are now forming a republican government. (Liberty) is found not in “the extremes of democracy but in moderate governments. … If we incline too much to democracy, we shall soon shoot into a monarchy.â€
John Adams reminded us: “Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There was never a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.â€
John Marshall, the highly respected fourth chief justice of the U.S. Supreme Court observed, “Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos.â€
Thomas Paine said, “A Democracy is the vilest form of Government there is.â€
The framers gave us a Constitution replete with undemocratic mechanisms. One constitutional provision that has come in for recent criticism is the Electoral College. In their wisdom, the framers gave us the Electoral College as a means of deciding presidential elections. That means heavily populated states can’t run roughshod over small, less-populated states.
Were we to choose the president and vice president under a popular vote, the outcome of presidential races would always be decided by a few highly populated states, namely California, Texas, Florida, New York, Illinois and Pennsylvania, which contain 134.3 million people, or 41% of our population. Presidential candidates could safely ignore the interests of the citizens of Wyoming, Alaska, Vermont, North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana and Delaware. Why? They have only 5.58 million Americans, or 1.7% of the U.S. population. We would no longer be a government “of the people.†Instead, our government would be put in power by and accountable to the leaders and citizens of a few highly populated states. It would be the kind of tyranny the framers feared.
It’s Congress that poses the greatest threat to our liberties. The framers’ distrust is seen in the negative language of our Bill of Rights such as: Congress “shall not abridge, infringe, deny, disparage, and shall not be violated, nor be denied.†When we die and if at our next destination we see anything like a Bill of Rights, we know that we’re in hell because a Bill of Rights in heaven would suggest that God couldn’t be trusted.
And the next SOB who refers to the USA as a "democracy" in my presence is going to get popped in the mouth even if I have to go to jail for it!t i
Nothing Reagan did lasted.
That charge works on ANY president.
Actually, Reagan's deficit has been built upon and upon and upon since he left office.
Yes it has. But outside of what was needed to fulfill a major first term campaign promise, rebuilding the post VN war military, it wasn't Reagan's deficit. It was congress's, just like congress owns it today. Reagan was a strong proponent of the line item veto.
And a boom that lasted all the way into the Clinton era. Some would argue beyond.
And almost literally Reagan handed the Republicans the Bible Belt, and the South... Virtually ALL of which were Democrats. I do believe that to be the biggest sea-change ever, and any success thereafter had Reagan to thank.
And as a point of order, I did not like his spending either - But neither do I count it as dire for points already reckoned upthread. Conservatism as a political power was for all intents and purposes, nascent in Goldwater and Reagan - When was the last Conservative president before Reagan? And how many years had the Democrats been in control of Congress? That's a helluva lot bigger machine than Tumpy had to reckon with. So I find less fault in mistakes made early on - But thirty YEARS later without moving the ball to the right *at all* - In fact, moving the ball leftward (in the name of Conservatism)...
Well let's just say my patience and my treasure no longer have the elasticity to cover egregious error with a twenty-five dollar smile and hope for the future. The rubber's been hitting the road for better than two decades... The situation has moved well past dire. Candy from the front of the parade just ain't going to do it anymore. If y'all don't start hitting the marks, and hitting them every_time, there is no future.
@roamer_1 funny how the some of the "conservatives" here will trash Reagan
@roamer_1 funny how the some of the "conservatives" here will trash Reagan for the very thing they give Trump a pass on.I defended Reagan from the exactly the same charges about ‘his spending’ the left made in the eighties you are accusing Trump of today, using exactly the same terms.
And yet when it came to freedom...security...military superiority and a beacon of freedom and democracy...Reagan still beats Trump hands down.
The very man that Trump once compared to a Soviet Dictator while testifying to congress at the invitation of the House Democrats..
Nothing Reagan did lasted.
I defended Reagan from the exactly the same charges about ‘his spending’ the left made in the eighties you are accusing Trump of today, using exactly the same terms.
The collapse of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact lasted. This resulted in a sizeable reduction in our defense budget for the last 30 years. Our defense budget represents less than half the fraction of GDP that it did before the Berlin Wall fell. Reagan did what Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, and Carter could not.Yet here we are, Bolsheviks at all levels of our government, and losing our liberties faster than I previously thought possible.
The collapse of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact lasted. This resulted in a sizeable reduction in our defense budget for the last 30 years. Our defense budget represents less than half the fraction of GDP that it did before the Berlin Wall fell. Reagan did what Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, and Carter could not.
The Reagan economic boom lasted into the early years of the Bush administration.Yes it did. However wages were stagnant almost the entire time. Ironically they made their most significant gains in the past 40 years under Trump.
My point wasn’t to bash Reagan. It was to point out how ridiculous it is to wave off Trump’s accomplishments because the left has found a way to eliminate them.
The Left wouldn't have been able to eliminate them had the Republicans gotten behind them and enacted them into law. But the only thing more rare than a snipe roaming about after midnight is a Republican with balls enough to stand up to Democrats.We voters have to finally come to grips with the fact that our party lives by an entirely different set of principles - their patriotism extends only as far as it continues to make regular deposits into their personal account.
@skeeterQuoteThere are a handful of (more so than anyone) "principled conservatives" who have insisted for four years that the deficit is the only issue that matters; until this is fixed there is no hope. Any other issue always returned to the deficit as our problem.
@skeeter
And I am one of them. Wish I was smarter or had more patience so I could go into detail about why I think that way. There HAS to be a simple sentence that will cause the light bulb to start shining above everyone's head,but I just can't write it.QuoteFor them, President Trump was a "northeast liberal" because of his spending. No grace was given for cause or effect.I am most definitely NOT one of those simpletons. No matter how good some slogan sounds,the reality is very different. It is a very complex issue,and some people will swear by some parts as being essential,and other people,equally sincere,will tell them they are nuts and it is THEIR pet issue that is important.
It can't be both ways.
Nothing Reagan did lasted.
That charge works on ANY president.
@roamer_1 funny how the some of the "conservatives" here will trash Reagan for the very thing they give Trump a pass on.
And yet when it came to freedom...security...military superiority and a beacon of freedom and democracy...Reagan still beats Trump hands down.
The very man that Trump once compared to a Soviet Dictator while testifying to congress at the invitation of the House Democrats..
They HAVE to tear him down in order to legitimize Tumpy.
*sigh* its ALWAYS about 'Tumpy'.
Ain't it though? I will be happy when the board has less articles about him than everything else. I do not understand the infatuation.
You will never understand as long as you consider it an "infatuation." :shrug:
Can't be seen as anything else. :shrug:
I defend Reagan to this day for the spending in the 80's...
...by people afflicted with your psychosis. :bolt:
A true, principled conservative defending one man for blowing the lid off the deficit sounds an awful lot like a cult of personality @txradioguy
Can't be seen as anything else. :shrug:
...and I reiterate....
No psychosis. I just judge things according to merit. And I ain't attracted to shiny sh*t... Which is why I have no interest in following after pied pipers. But you are welcome to convince me as to the verity of your cause. If only you could. :whistle:
No desire whatsoever. Just my best wishes and sincere regards.
Ain't it though? I will be happy when the board has less articles about him than everything else. I do not understand the infatuation.
Nothing Reagan did lasted.
That charge works on ANY president.
Unless bills are passed and signed into law. Most changes are happening via e.o., and all the next prez has to do is undo the e.o.
And the next SOB who refers to the USA as a "democracy" in my presence is going to get popped in the mouth even if I have to go to jail for it!
@skeeter There are a handful of (more so than anyone) "principled conservatives" who have insisted for four years that the deficit is the only issue that matters; until this is fixed there is no hope. Any other issue always returned to the deficit as our problem.
For them, President Trump was a "northeast liberal" because of his spending. No grace was given for cause or effect.
Yet the conservative icon, Ronald Reagan, is the President who blew the lid off the deficit ... but somehow this only makes him more conservative in the eyes of the "principled". I'm not looking to slam Reagan, I'm asking for help reconciling this contradictory position.
The collapse of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact lasted. This resulted in a sizeable reduction in our defense budget for the last 30 years. Our defense budget represents less than half the fraction of GDP that it did before the Berlin Wall fell. Reagan did what Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, and Carter could not.
The Reagan economic boom lasted into the early years of the Bush administration.
They HAVE to tear him down in order to legitimize Tumpy.
You're right.
The GW Bush administration of the 2000's.
Probably due to something strange, like how the last election was a total fraud and Trump should not be serving his second term in exile.
Weird things like that bother real Americans.
But the Usurper could undo everything Trump did by signing 99 EOs in a single day.
I have not seen that proven.Oh, C'mon man!
No.
Trump is easily a greater president than Reagan.
That's a very hard subject to debate.
It's clear that there's no president between the two that ranks even level with the hemorrhoids on an sow's butt in comparison.
The compelling issues Trump faced were more diverse and less focused than those confronting Reagan.
Reagan had the Cold War and the economic crisis caused by That Idiot Carter and the foreign policy disasters left by That Idiot Carter. The structure of the nation was still basically sound, with a solid manufacturing base and sound resource management in progress.
The media could have been rated, at that time, as Somewhat Dishonest.
Trump faced a fascist media rated at Almost Entirely Treasonous and Dishonestly Biased Against America. With a crime committed by the outgoing Illegal Alien from Kenya, the media made almost no mention of a conspiracy far vaster and far more heinous than the Watergate kerfluffle.
Trump faced an entrenched Rodent-RINO coalition of grifters, not only in elected office but burrowed throughout the bloated bureaucracy, all eager, willing and able to obstruct justice and break the law with impunity.
Reagan had the GOP in House and Senate working for him to advance his agenda.
Trump had the GOP in House and Senate working for the Rodents to derail his agenda. But much of his agenda was accomplished regardless.
Trump got NATO to start paying it's bills again.
Trump made the Invasion of the United States by the Rodents and RINOs a matter of public debate, unmasking who our traitors are. All Never Trumpers are traitors, btw.
Trump accomplished much, and what he accomplished is all the more impressive because HE accomplished it, practically single-handedly.
Oh, C'mon man!
All you have to do is watch him speeching and you will know why he got the 'dead' vote.
I will stick with the Conservative ideal of requiring proof in a court of law, and laying claims in the public square aside.I'd love to see a case hit court with full discovery and presentation of evidence. I'd be tickled.
That being said, that proof is leaking out, ever so slowly.
I'd love to see a case hit court with full discovery and presentation of evidence. I'd be tickled.
One thing Reagan did, was to make being "conservative" 'cool' again.
Unfortunately, that meant a lot of people who just wanted to be cool started calling themselves conservative even though they had no clue what it was.
No.
Trump made the Invasion of the United States by the Rodents and RINOs a matter of public debate, unmasking who our traitors are. All Never Trumpers are traitors, btw.
Trump accomplished much, and what he accomplished is all the more impressive because HE accomplished it, practically single-handedly.
I have not seen that proven.
@roamer_1
That's because it's hard to see clearly when your head remains up your hindquarters all the time.
@roamer_1
That's because it's hard to see clearly when your head remains up your hindquarters all the time.
You must be speaking from experience.
Har de har har.
Let's stay on topic, and not on each others backs? TIA
I know this thread practically begs for it, but still.....
@Cyber Liberty
I was thinking that discussing RINO's WAS related to the topic?
It is! Just don't call each other that!
:beer: :beer: :beer:
@Cyber Liberty
I still don't get it. Most seem to be proud of being a RINO,not ashamed of it.
I'd peg it at the GWHB admin. From the day he was Inaugurated in 1989, he worked full time to tear down everything Reagan did. The tax hike after we read his lips was just the icing on that NWO cake.
I have not seen that proven.
And one can't prove sunlight to blind cave fish that won't open the eyes it doesn't have, either.
You don't want to accept the truth, that's your choice.
It is! Just don't call each other that!
Meh. Doesn't work anyhow... I ain't an 'R' of ANY flavor. And likely never will be again.
Meh. Doesn't work anyhow... I ain't ....
I can't help but notice you flip in and out of the "ain't" vernacular. When you flip to it, are you trying to sound tough --- as in "Marlboro Man"? :pondering:
I ain't noticed that I flip in and out of it at all. I write like I speak. However, I do know, and it has been pointed out to me, that when I have something to say that is complicated I switch into a higher form of English, more aligned to my book learning. All except for semi-colons. I still don't know what the hell them are for. :shrug:
Semicolons; I use them a lot, to add on to a sentence. I probably use them incorrectly, but they are supposed to be used to join two separate clauses without using a conjunction like and. I type very fast and so I use them probably more than I should. It's easier for me to do so.
It's a forum. We all have are unique ways of posting; some more so than others. (I technically just used it incorrectly). Oh well. :shrug:
Semicolons; I use them a lot, to add on to a sentence. I probably use them incorrectly, but they are supposed to be used to join two separate clauses without using a conjunction like and. I type very fast and so I use them probably more than I should. It's easier for me to do so.
It's a forum. We all have are unique ways of posting; some more so than others. (I technically just used it incorrectly). Oh well. :shrug:
I don't use the semi hardly at all. Standing off a list is about all I use it for, and I probably do it incorrectly. :shrug:
As I said, EOs don't count. They never have until that DACA decision.
I have to chuckle really. Proper use of a semicolon is at the very bottom of my list of things to be concerned about. Good grief!
Using it in a sentence to list, is what I thought it was used for but I googled it and it is supposed to connect without using a conjunction. So IMHO --- list away!
So ... if I use the dang semicolon too much, that's just how it is.
I use em for the winky face. That's my entire repertoire. :shrug: :whistle:
That ain't the point.
I see it just fine.
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; and ;
Just used my annual allotment.
So what you meant was that EO didn't count, but they do now.
Well no... Obviously they don't. All of Tumpy's are gone like a fart in a hurricane... As predicted, btw...
And wanting judges to circumvent the Congress and allow el presidente to rule by decree is not the Conservative position. the DACA ruling is flat wrong, and ought to be struck down, not used for an excuse.
That is exactly the point.
Look, you either see it fine or you deny the election was stolen outright.
Since you pretend the election was not stolen, you aren't seeing it.
And there shouldn't be anything fine about that, not with anyone.
Not so fast with that yeast-killing fart! Democrat EOs last forever.
No, they really don't. Most of Obummer's went the same way as Tumpy's. And Boosh before him.
As I said, they don't count. You know what counts? What was passed as LAW the last four years... Go look at that and see how proud you are. Because that's the stuff that sticks.
EOs are nothing but candy thrown from the front of the parade.
roamer1
That's why we have always been instructed 'innocent until proven guilty in a court of law'.
Wrong. The Federal Courts worked overtime throwing out Trump's EOs that overturned O'Bastard's EOs.
Truer words from a Never Trumper never spoken, of course that applies just as much to democrats, right? Silly me,of course not, we already know that! Democrats get to rule, non-judgmentally, of course, and fools get fooled.
****slapping :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: ****slapping
Not wrong. Most were overturned.
Of course it does. That is the purpose of law. And whether the Democrats, when BOTH sides ignore the law, when BOTH sides insist on trial in the gossip rags, listening to waggin tongues, That is when we are truly finished. There ain't no coming back from where y'all are determined to go. And you can turn in your 'party of law and order' card.
If the Courts overturned one Trump EO that voided an O'Bastard EO, then your earlier statement about farts in hurricanes was at least partially incorrect. Democrat EOs can last forever and ever.
Let's hold off on that judgement until a Federal Court actually allows a trial on merits to proceed. First it was "no standing," and now the favorite dodge is "moot case." No evidence has been tested yet and probably will never be.
Some say that because Biden succeeded in overturning the good Trump did, Trump failed. That's the hardcore democrats point of view, preaching at useful fools, what Trump did was benefiting the American people, and Biden overturning what Trump did, is costing the American people a great deal. Biden overturning the good Trump did is Bidens dirt he did to every one of us. That's the reality, not the democrat hardcore's trying to blame shift Trump for what Biden did/doing. The clueless remain shamelessly clueless about it though.
Exactly NO. I will not succumb to the unreliability of public square 'justice'.
Absolutely not.
If you want to see me turn that around, you have to sure as hell prove it in court, where documents are vetted and evidence established, not relying on waggin tongues and gossip rags.
Actually, I don't have to do any such thing.
The election was stolen openly and the courts proved their corruption by flatly refusing to accept the cases, and the few times they accepted cases, they refused evidence.
The USSC rejected the lawsuit brought by Texas and twenty other states citing the unconstitutional shananigans used by MI, PA, WI and others to select the electors, methods adopted in violation of the Constitution's requirement said processes be determined specifically by the state legislatures.
The evidentiary merit of that lawsuit was transparently obvious to EVERYONE. Even the hate-filled never-trumping a-holes aren't going to deny that the Rodents in those states unlawfully chose electors, enough so that every voter who supported the only American candidate on the ballot was disenfranchised.
YOU can pretend you didn't see it.
You can't pretend you're not supporting the Rodents and their criminal activity with your pretense.
Not wrong. Most were overturned.
And rightly so - I do not want New York dictating how Montana does its business. And that is in fact what you desire, whether you know it or not... Unintended consequences.
NATURE OF THE ACTION
1. Plaintiff State challenges Defendant States’ administration of the 2020 election under the Electors Clause of Article II, Section 1, Clause 2, and the Fourteenth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
The GOP keeps telling me their 'Moving' I see nothing but years of stagnation.
John Fullbright with Jimmy LaFave "Moving"
It most certainly is the business of Texas, and every other state for that matter, to ensure that Pennsylvania. et al comply with the United States Constitution with respect to elections for president of the United States. The Texas lawsuit claimed four defendant states did not do this.
Pay close attention to:
What's most egregious about the 7 Supreme Court justices refusing to hear this case is that they, themselves, broke with the Constitution. Under Article III, Section 2 of the United States Constitution, a state may sue another state and the Supreme Court of the United States has original jurisdiction over all cases between states. As the court of original jurisdiction, the SC had zero authority to refuse.
BTW, @roamer_1 circling back to your statement that you don't want New York dictating to Montana, states have frequently sued each other.
As stated in my earlier post, ... Under Article III, Section 2 of the United States Constitution states may sue other states and the US Supreme Court is the court of original jurisdiction. They sue each other fairly frequently, especially in areas of jurisdiction, land rights, resource rights and debt collection.
So, while a long shot --- it is possible NY could be telling MT what to do some day. :laugh:
@Right_in_Virginia
No, they do NOT. The Constitution rests the authority SOLELY in each state respectively, and in the legislature thereof specifically. The ONLY business there is INTERNAL to the respective states.
I understand the concept of original jurisdiction. That does NOT mean the court MUST pick it up. If the claim has no merit it SHOULD be rejected outright, or soon enough the court will be engulfed by nuisance suits aimed precisely at that: Being a nuisance, in the no-downside hope of the spaghetti sticking to the wall.
I am outright opposed to both your points.
The new Conservative is either a Xi conservative, or a Putin conservative, glad i could clear up a lot of mysteries for some of you.More like transleftist....
:silly: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :silly:
@Cyber LibertyFor those of us who are not Republicans, it has no meaning at all.
I still don't get it. Most seem to be proud of being a RINO,not ashamed of it.
Exactly NO. I will not succumb to the unreliability of public square 'justice'.There is something about some 200,000 more votes than registered voters that inclines me greatly toward fraud on a massive scale. Cui bono? That's obvious, and they are the people who have most egregiously lied to us..
Absolutely not.
If you want to see me turn that around, you have to sure as hell prove it in court, where documents are vetted and evidence established, not relying on waggin tongues and gossip rags.
I am fairly certain that there was chicanery - There always IS... Proving it is the hard part, and I said that right when this whole mess started.
Standards. Principles. They have a purpose.
Did you know that there are prayer meetings in the Whitehouse every week? Did you know that preachers from all over the country meet there once a month to pray for President Trump, our nation, military and operators in harm's way? Some come there from other nations. Big names and small names, whenever they can get there.
I will not cede Conservative ground, and I will not throw Conservative brethren under the bus for your fetid movement.
@roamer_1
Let's try again ---- The Electors Clause of Article II, Section 1, Clause 2, delegates the power to regulate the selection of Electors in a Presidential election to the United States and the United States has specifically decreed: "Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector."
The Texas suit, which is very simple and straightforward, wanted a ruling on:
--whether or not the four named defendant states broke with the US Constitution by selecting electors for the President of the United States using methods not directed by their state legislatures.
-- and further, whether or not this violated the rights of the citizens of all states under the Fourteenth Amendment.
I provided the link to the brief filed with the SC --- it's not long. It may help to read it.
A state v state lawsuit is unique; there is one and only one court of refuge. The Constitutionally designated court of original jurisdiction is the US Supreme Court --- it has original and exclusive jurisdiction to hear disputes between different states; no other federal court can hear such a dispute. Inherent in this designation is the obligation to hear the suit and not leave a state(s) without recourse and remedy.
That seven justices divorced themselves from the Constitution is what should put a burr in your saddle.
They're not MY points. They're the points of the US Constitution. You'll need to initiate the Amendment process if you'd like to change either the Electors Clause or Original Jurisdiction.
Did you know that there are prayer meetings in the Whitehouse every week? Did you know that preachers from all over the country meet there once a month to pray for President Trump, our nation, military and operators in harm's way? Some come there from other nations. Big names and small names, whenever they can get there.
SO WHAT? What has that to do with throwing Conservative factions under the bus?What would you know about conservatives? You're obviously on here just to troll and argue.
There is something about some 200,000 more votes than registered voters that inclines me greatly toward fraud on a massive scale. Cui bono? That's obvious, and they are the people who have most egregiously lied to us..
But let me put it this way, I am supposed somehow to believe that a person who can barely articulate what day it is, who never drew a crowd the media didn't have to play camera angle tricks to make look like a funeral for someone unpopular in the rain, someone who can't get more than a couple of thousand people to follow their speeches, beat a guy who could easily pack a venue--a guy who got more votes than any sitting president in history, and was allegedly still beaten (after the 5 key states shut down and his numbers went vertical, all about the same time? And those Same jurisdictions are resisting attempts to verify those votes by any means necessary, including shredding ballots?
Sorry, but at some point the camel's back broke.
I want to see a thorough investigation and the production of ALL the evidence, examination of software, logs, chains of custody, etc. But that isn't going to happen. Like Janet Reno used to say, "There is no evidence which exists....", and I believe the perpetrators have been doing all necessary to make sure none of that sees the light of day.
Hell, Yes, it was stolen.
What would you know about conservatives? You're obviously on here just to troll and argue.
Even if I cede the point - Using that excuse leads to emperors. Is that where we are now? Rome all over again?
No, I am here to DEFEND. And what I defend is precisely Conservatism.
All of it.
No. Not within it's sovereign right and internal affairs.
That seven justices divorced themselves from the Constitution is what should put a burr in your saddle.
All the Americans realized that when they saw the election stolen before their very eyes.
You like to pretend the election wasn't stolen, leaving the Americans to wonder.
@Right_in_Virginia
No, they do NOT.
The Constitution rests the authority SOLELY in each state respectively, and in the legislature thereof specifically. The ONLY business there is is INTERNAL to the respective states. That a state official overstepped boundaries is a matter for the legislature to pick up. Since they did NOT, they tacitly approved of the action. Their standing, their business. If they don't chose to move on it, that is THEIR business.
Be careful what you wish for. Indeed the end game that y'all are messin with is New York having a say in how Montana does it's business. Good God y'all. Look at the precedent you want to set.
I understand the concept of original jurisdiction. That does NOT mean the court MUST pick it up. If the claim has no merit it SHOULD be rejected outright, or soon enough the court will be engulfed by nuisance suits aimed precisely at that: Being a nuisance, in the no-downside hope of the spaghetti sticking to the wall.
I am outright opposed to both your points.
Even that part that says the election was clearly stolen?
What about that part of conservatism that says we have to fight if we're ever going to have a hope of fixing things?
It may be unique, but the pressure on the court is not, and original jurisdiction or not, the court can thankfully ignore spurious claims. Which is what seems to have happened.
And YOU are flat out wrong in this case my friend!
SCOTUS has a duty to hear such cases and they flat out shirked that duty on December 11, 2020! The republic is DEAD as a result!
@roamer_1
No, the part that says you have to PROVE it. And no, I will not go off half-cocked over what is little more than gossip.
You're not 'fighting' anything. You're pitchin a fit. That's a different thing.
And YOU are flat out wrong in this case my friend!
SCOTUS has a duty to hear such cases and they flat out shirked that duty on December 11, 2020! The republic is DEAD as a result!
No, I do not. You like to pretend that just because you say so, you don't have to prove it.
And you're wrong.
Be careful what you wish for friend. I don't want New York governing Montana over water rights, environment, mining and such - Which they can do if Scotus is obligated to hear every case. The libs would immediately bury them in causes. FACT.
So no, there is an obligation, no doubt. But I do not expect it extends to the point of sitting through frivolous claims.
If it is wrong on its face, they are right to reject it outright.
And it goes against the most intimate part of Federalism, this idea that states can gang up and make another state bow. Rubs me wrong from the get-go.
@Bigun
Be careful what you wish for friend. I don't want New York governing Montana over water rights, environment, mining and such - Which they can do if Scotus is obligated to hear every case. The libs would immediately bury them in causes. FACT.
So no, there is an obligation, no doubt. But I do not expect it extends to the point of sitting through frivolous claims.
If it is wrong on its face, they are right to reject it outright.
And it goes against the most intimate part of Federalism, this idea that states can gang up and make another state bow. Rubs me wrong from the get-go.
@Bigun
It's a "spurious claim" to bring to the court solid evidence that enough states violated the Constitution and as a result wrongly altered the outcome of a presidential election?
Are you denying that the accused states did not pick their electors by invalid means? The evidence is public record.
Are you claiming that the Court can neglect evidence of unconstitutional action by the states when it's POLITICALLY EXPEDIENT to do so? Why was the Court set up with lifetime appointments? That was on the theory that people with lifetime appointments would not be politically motivated. You'll notice that I answered the question for you.
So, no, the reason the USSC did not hear this case was not because they were going to miss their tee-time. The reason they rejected the case was that accepting the case meant the public fools who didn't already know about the electoral theft would have seen the evidence of it and that the judges who were supposed to be non-political were being totally political.
It's a matter of public record. Your juvenile insistence that it hasn't been proven is boring.
Proving interstate collusion would lift it above an internal matter, because then it is a matter of several states in collusion, which is beyond the jurisdiction of state legislatures respectively - THAT was the money shot. THAT ts where the SCOTUS gets jurisdiction. But it failed to be proven, ...
The last time I looked EVIDENCE has to be presented in court so pray tell me how that is to happen if the court flat out refuses to even hear the case?The only way to win this game is to not play.
@roamer_1
What part of the requirement that state legislatures determine the manner of the choosing of the electors is too difficult for you to comprehend?
Besides all of it?
What part of the fact that a court cannot alter the laws regarding the process of selecting the electors established by the legislature?
Besides all of it?
When part of the fact that no person in the executive branch of a state can alter the process of selecting the electors established by the legislatures have you failed to accept?
Besides all of it?
The job of a state's Secretary of State is to enforce the laws written by the state's legislature. They have no authority to change ballot deadlines, signature requirements, poll closing times, nothing. They are SECRETARIES. They follow orders.
Judges can't alter anything, either.
Conservatives embrace the Constitution, not just the parts that let the Rodents steal elections.
The only way to win this game is to not play.
I am the one standing on the Constitution and defending federalism.
The last time I looked EVIDENCE has to be presented in court so pray tell me how that is to happen if the court flat out refuses to even hear the case?
@roamer_1
Nope! You most assuredly are not doing that with your arguments here. Just the opposite in fact.
@roamer_1
I will flatly disagree with you in that @Bigun and that does not happen much.
It is not in the interest of federalism to force a legislature to act upon their SOLE power. In the forcing, you prove it is not a SOLE power after all. And mark my words, you will not like where that goes.
@Bigun
That was the point of the suits wrt electronic filing - and for all the hubris blown around in the press, they had nothing. There is still an option on that. Dominion is suing - So one would suppose they are confident enough to open it all to discovery... Which does not look good for Tumpy either.
But you'll get to see...
What you don't seem to be getting here @roamer_1 is that the legislatures HAD acted and laws WERE in place that governed how presidential electors were to be chosen in their states. Those laws were violated on a grand scale and, under the Constitution, THAT is not allowed!
WRONG! Texas vs Pennsylvania, as has been pointed out to you numerous times on this very thread by @Right_in_Virginia and myself for sure and perhaps others as well, sought ONLY to enforce the constitutional provision that electors be chosen in a manner prescribed by the legislatures of the states. THAT did not happen in 2020 and that is ALL that the suit sought to correct! @roamer_1
But the enforcement remains with the legislature if it is indeed their SOLE power.
NO! Enforcement is the sole purpose of having a SCOTUS in the first damned place! And the legislatures were screaming their heads off at the time as I recall.
I am not going to write you a book here but the state of Texas sued the state of Pennsylvania for allowing laws enacted by the legislature of Pennsylvania governing how presidential electors are to be selected to be wholesale violated by persons not authorized to do so and that damned sure is the business of SCOTUS!
We will have to disagree - And I think that the reason the case was thrown out.
And no, the SCOTUS has no arm in enforcement. Who is it that would enforce their will?
Doesn't matter now as the once-great republic known as the United States of America is dead as a post because of its failure to enforce its own founding document i.e. the Constitution.
We will have to disagree - And I think that the reason the case was thrown out.
And no, the SCOTUS has no arm in enforcement. Who is it that would enforce their will?
Every decision made by the Supreme Court is (theoretically) an enforcement of the US Constitution, This is why it is so important to principled conservatives to have constitutionalist judges who interpret the constitution as written @roamer_1
Had the Supreme Court found in favor of Texas, the most predictable remedy would have been to send the choice of electors back to the state legislatures of the defendant states with their written decision and the order that the legislature review the process and the choice of electors for President of the United States. If so decided by the legislature(s), the electors could have been voided and reassigned to the President.
The arm of enforcement is in the design of our federal government. The Supreme Court is the final arbiter; their decision stands. How do you think so many babies never saw daylight?
What part of 'It's the state legislatures business (and no one else)' don't YOU understand? If that power is SOLELY resting in the state legislature, that means it's nobody else's business.
No, in fact, it is not, @Right_in_Virginia . The court holds no means of enforcing anything.
Then stop calling yourself a principled, constitutional conservative.
Because I tell you the truth? Not likely.
It is everyone's business if the power to choose electors did not rest SOLELY with any state legislature @roamer_1
This is the essential question in the Texas suit. If the court had determined the role of the state legislatures was usurped, the selection of electors in those states are unconstitutional --- and cannot stand by the directions followed.
Seven justices shoved their heads up their asses and refused to look at what happened and decide whether or not the Texas claim had merit --- and if so, give back to the defendant state legislatures their Constitutionally guaranteed right to choose electors for President of the United States according to their approved directions.
I don't know why you're still confused about this.
Even you can't possibly believe this.
Your every answer proves an inability to grasp basic concepts in the Constitution and their application. Take some time to cool down. You're making a mockery of our founding document and a clown of yourself.
See, I see that the other way around.Desiring the federal government to impose it's will upon the sovereignty of a state is exactly the opposite of federalism.Don't worry. Your demonrat brethren will continue to destroy the Constitution.
Don't worry. Your demonrat brethren will continue to destroy the Constitution.
They are not my brethren.They are your brethren that you keep sticking up for. Your just another lying liberal troll on a conservative website.
But better the democrats destroying the Constitution than y'all.
They are your brethren that you keep sticking up for. Your just another lying liberal troll on a conservative website.
I have never 'stuck up' for a Democrat a single time. You're just pissed because I won't 'stick up' for your boy either.You continue to do so with every post and my statement stands. Why don't you just admit it. The only thing worse than lying to other is lying to yourself libby.
See, I see that the other way around.Desiring the federal government to impose it's will upon the sovereignty of a state is exactly the opposite of federalism.
See, I see that the other way around.Desiring the federal government to impose it's will upon the sovereignty of a state is exactly the opposite of federalism.
You continue to do so with every post and my statement stands. Why don't you just admit it. The only thing worse than lying to other is lying to yourself libby.
Odd, ain't it then, when most of those state legislators I am defending are Republican led...
They are your brethren that you keep sticking up for. Your just another lying liberal troll on a conservative website.
Yet the requirement for State Legislatures to set the laws for choosing Presidential Electors is clearly stated in the Constitution, and that can't be delegated to bureaucrats as was done in PA.
This command was violated [...]
[...]
and it demonstrably harmed the electors in the other 49 States.
I suppose a case can still be made that one State cannot force another State to obey the clear language in the US Constitution, but the SCOTUS would have had to take the case on its merits to determine that, and they did not do so.
They shirked their duty to tell Texas to pound sand. They did not even have the guts to do that when they denied standing without any explanation. Sadly, this has intelligent people claiming there is no evidence because a Court never heard it. This was exactly the argument made by one Jazz person, and he made himself a laughingstock in so doing. "Wasn't presented to a Court, therefore it does not exist."
There's a word for that, I think it's "specious."
@Bigun
I get that just fine. But the enforcement remains with the legislature if it is indeed their SOLE power. It is their acquiescence that is on point. Had they got a bug in their butt and barked at the state administration, and that administration ignored them, THEN the courts would be there to provide remedy TO THE LEGISLATURE. It is the legislature that has the 'injury'.
But in passive acquiescence, The legislature is claiming no harm to their SOLE power. That is exactly why it will get nowhere. The state legislatures respectively are the only ones with standing. They are the ones with 'harm'. but they are not the ones standing in front of the court.
I said this same thing early on, maybe to @Cyber Liberty ... If they could not prove interstate collusion, the whole thing would collapse into a score of separate issues and those are a matter for the state, and the crime and punishment of it likely cannot sway the election, as each is treated as an instance.
And that is exactly what happened.
What you don't seem to be getting here @roamer_1 is that the legislatures HAD acted and laws WERE in place that governed how presidential electors were to be chosen in their states. Those laws were violated on a grand scale and, under the Constitution, THAT is not allowed!
I will flatly disagree with you in that @Bigun and that does not happen much.
It is not in the interest of federalism to force a legislature to act upon their SOLE power. In the forcing, you prove it is not a SOLE power after all. And mark my words, you will not like where that goes.
@Bigun
Really? So you say the federal courts exist to come between the state legislature and it's governor?
Where is that in the Constitution?
Meanwhile, back in America, ONE of the powers delegated SOLELY to the state legislature is the definition of the process for selecting federal electors. When the state judiciaries or executives interfere, the federal courts must intervene to nullify those fraudulent electors.
He gets it just fine.
He gets it so well that he can't admit he gets it because he realizes that if he admits that fact then he also has to admit the fact that the inauguration of that senile usurper was fraudulent and that Trump actually won the election. Something no American has problems with saying.
Methinks you imagine the state legislatures just cobble together any old legislation and if they don't do it right the federal government can give them the boot.
Since the courts of Pennsylvania do not have the authority to select federal electors, the electors selected by those people are not valid and the necessary thing for the Congress to do is to reject those electors, and, if this is brought into the federal court by a state that is harmed by the judges in Pennsylvania, the federal court is required, by the Constitution, to declare those electors void as well.
You do want the courts to obey the Constitution, don't you?
This isn't "forcing the state legislature to exercise their SOLE power", this is protecting that power from unlawful incursions by other agents. You do know that the state legislature of Pennsylvania HAD defined how the electors would be chosen, don't you?
Know that what means, then? The legislature had already exercised their power and the federal government is not "forcing" them to do anything more.
Then it is not a sole and singular power and is at the beck and call of other states and an overweening federal court.
Swell.
Yet the requirement for State Legislatures to set the laws for choosing Presidential Electors is clearly stated in the Constitution, and that can't be delegated to bureaucrats as was done in PA. This command was violated, and it demonstrably harmed the electors in the other 49 States. I suppose a case can still be made that one State cannot force another State to obey the clear language in the US Constitution, but the SCOTUS would have had to take the case on its merits to determine that, and they did not do so.
They shirked their duty to tell Texas to pound sand. They did not even have the guts to do that when they denied standing without any explanation. Sadly, this has intelligent people claiming there is no evidence because a Court never heard it. This was exactly the argument made by one Jazz person, and he made himself a laughingstock in so doing. "Wasn't presented to a Court, therefore it does not exist."
There's a word for that, I think it's "specious."
Ok ...SO for me, it's back to the question and dilemma of how do we possibly prevent another election from being stolen?
The DEMS tried during the past mid terms and finally succeeded in stealing the election in the general.
What if anything can be done? SCOTUS sure as heck didn't even bother to lift a finger.
she DEMS are in complete control and they sure as heck are going to make up the rules from this point forward and don't have a care in the world whether or not what they do is constitutional.
Yet the requirement for State Legislatures to set the laws for choosing Presidential Electors is clearly stated in the Constitution, and that can't be delegated to bureaucrats as was done in PA. This command was violated, and it demonstrably harmed the electors in the other 49 States. I suppose a case can still be made that one State cannot force another State to obey the clear language in the US Constitution, but the SCOTUS would have had to take the case on its merits to determine that, and they did not do so.
They shirked their duty to tell Texas to pound sand. They did not even have the guts to do that when they denied standing without any explanation. Sadly, this has intelligent people claiming there is no evidence because a Court never heard it. This was exactly the argument made by one Jazz person, and he made himself a laughingstock in so doing. "Wasn't presented to a Court, therefore it does not exist."
There's a word for that, I think it's "specious."
A ridiculously circular argument... As the only remedies are for the very same offending legislature to hand pick replacement electors (which are likely to be the very same ones as in the first place), or to disenfranchise the state altogether, and the only other thing that happens is the fed getting to flex against the state under the color of law.
Meh.
Constitution of the United States of America, Amendment XII:
The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;—The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;—The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President. note 14 —The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States. ratified #12 affects 8
What part of the fact that the state legislatures DID enact LAWS regarding the selection of the state's electors did you miss when you decided that the federal government was going to "force" them to do it instead?
What part of the fact that the Constitution REQUIRES each state to have a republican form of government has escaped your attention? You know, the part where it's the legislatures that make the laws, not the courts or the executive?
Neither state nor federal courts can change how a state selects it's electors. Do you understand that much, or must that be spelled out, too?
Neither the president, the governors, or any other non-legislative body can change a state's method for selecting electors. That's what it means when the Constitution says the state LEGISLATURES determine the process.
What standing did Texas have to sue PA and the other Rodent-holes for their failure to obey this simple Constitutional restriction? Why, the presence of fraudulent electors was sufficient to alter the outcome of the election, and thus EVERY state had standing to sue, and it's a said commentary on the rise of fascism in the US that not every state joined Texas. Only those still possessing a republican form of government did so.
Please, stop talking. You're making the "principled conservative" class look like idiots.
I doubt you will find a single state that won't require some wiggle room. But it's great for getting all hepped up, rending your clothes at the injustice of it all. I wonder if you'll do the same when the precedence you set gets turned around and shoved in your face by the Democrats - Or will the goose and the gander be the same?
Right. If true. And I would not put it past right leaning propagandists to have made it up... As there are examples thereof existing, I hold *nothing* reported to be true. I can no longer trust Right leaning sources, any more than I can trust the left.Easy enough to check, especially votes cast vs registered (and living) voters. I agree about the "court of public opinion" So, in the parlance of any card player, it's time to call. Let's see the evidence, let's examine this like it was "Russian Collusion" or something of that nature (IOW, really look hard for it) , and if no wrongdoing can be found and Biden's votes can be substantiated as legitimate and Trump's votes as being complete and honest, even now, then I'd settle for the fact that well over half our countrymen are effing idiots who have sh*t for brains and start digging that bunker in earnest.
However, I DO lean hard toward the idea of corruption, of course, to the point of not finding this instance to be remarkable or peculiar. But how I FEEEEEL about it has no bearing.
Alright. Let ME put it THIS way: Whine and cry. Throw dirt in the air. Pitch a fit, an advanced hissy.
Then what do you got? *nothing*, friend. Not a single damn thing until it is proven in a court of law.
And that is not a simple thing wrt elections. That requires a preponderance of evidence in a short time frame. The intention of the framers was that it was more important that the word is final than dickin with it incessantly... And I DO agree with that. NOW the thing will start to come out, a little here, a little there. And tiny little workerbee heads will roll. But this has been a swing-and-a-miss. And there ain't no sense in crying over spilled milk.
It is not that I am dispassionate about it. Nor even that I am in disagreement with you - I am quite tightly aligned. But that and five bucks will buy you a coffee.
And that is STILL no reason to convict by means of the court of public opinion.
I absolutely agree with that, and have been behind that reasoning all the way along... All that's left is the doin of it.
But as I said, and as I am still inclined - That's the hard part... As y'all are finding out. :shrug:
There are only two remedies possible: Either the court, at the behest of several states, forces the legislature to hand pick alternate electors, or Penn is just disenfranchised and get NO electors. Which of those are not forcing Penn?
The CONSTITUTION not give them "wiggle room".
And I'm rending your arguments, not my clothes. Fact of the matter is that, thanks to the Fake Pangolin Pandemic, I haven't gone in to work more than ten days out of the last year. I've saved a bundle on clothes and I'm right now wearing an old St. John's Bay shirt I bought in 2013 for twenty bucks. But since you're interested in my wardrobe, I did buy some new Fruit of the Loom briefs last week. Socks, too.
Since you are curious.
The only remedy was for the courts to reject the fraudulent electors, and then, since the Rodents did not then have enough electors to take the Presidency, the matter would have been sent to the House of Representatives, where each state delegation would have voted which candidate would be president.
Don't you read the damn thing you keep complaining about?
It's not an internal affair for crap-hole states like MI, PA and WI among others to violate the Constitutional requirements that the legislatures determine how the state's electors are chosen for the Electoral College.I agree, in that for the hanges to election law to be legitimate, they must come from the respective legislatures of those States, by the constraints of the Constitution. In the instances of MI, GA, PA, and others, those changes did not emanate from the legislature but were designed and implemented by (partisan) bureaucrats and judges.
Which means all the normal states had the right to sue when those crap-holes stole the election.
You get out and vote.
You get out and vote the RINOs out as the very first step.
Every time there's a primary election, go vote as many times as you can to defeat the RINO infestation.
Every time there's a school board election, go to the meetings and quiz the prospective board members, in front of everyone, where they stand on the issues. Ask "can boyz be girls? Do boys belong in girls sports and girls locker rooms? Where do you stand on the 1619 project? Do your students know your political ideology or where you, as a math teacher, stand on the issue of immigration or medicare for all?" etc.
Normal people who belong in front of a classroom should know the correct answers to those: no, no, no, no, bogus, no they don't.
Get with your friends and neighbors, identify not only the outright traitors but the squishes and kick them out. Hound their meetings and rallies so others know what vile people they are.
And, when it comes time for the general election and if a RINO has passed a primary, vote for the Rodent.
The first step in curing any disease is to stop it's spread. That means the RINO has to go, first thing, to show that crime doesn't pay.
The Rodents have been stealing elections my entire life, since I was born when JFK was busy getting people murdered on the beaches in Cuba. If they can't steal an election, they do everything they can to overturn it. I remember Nixon and the Watergate farce. I also remember how they treated Reagan, Bush and Bush Boy and the Final President, too.
The way to stop Rodents from stealing election is to stop electing RINO squishes who accept stolen elections as something normal. That's step #1.
Step #2 is to prosecute and execute. Yeah, we need new definitions of capital crimes. Election fraud is worse than murder. The Rodents killed the world's oldest and greatest republic via election fraud.
France came back from Napoleon and finally settled down to being a republic that has stability if not dignity. The United States and the real Americans are a hundred times better and stronger than the French. We can fry the Rodents if we work together. in freshly fracked crude oil, hopefully.
1) regain control of the House and Senate, with 2/3 of the Senate in American hands. Then start impeaching the bastards on the court that refused to hear these election cases. Cite them for unconstitutional behavior and corruption.
2) Try fighting. That means you have to get off the bench.
If they felt secure in their stolen power, they wouldn't be so frantic to distract the Americans from their power, and they would instead be flaunting their power.
We Americans had well over 75 million voters for Trump. Certainly several million more than that since there's absolutely no way some senile derelict in a hidden basement and some mattress-backed incompetent Karen slut gathered 80 million votes. They didn't get 60 million.
So you fight. You don't try to hold the line and you don't support people who want to hold the line. Wars are not won by holding the line. Wars are won by attacking the enemy. Ask General Redacted Lee about the Civil War. They held the line real good. And lost. Germany held the line in WWI. And lost. South Vietnam and the US held the line. And lost. (Well, the South Vietnamese lost. The US didn't lose that war, the Rodents in Congress deserted our allies in the battlefield and let them lose instead.)
Anyways, people who don't fight don't win. People who don't win are called losers. So fight, and fight to win.
The CONSTITUTION not give them "wiggle room".
And I'm rending your arguments, not my clothes.
Fact of the matter is that, thanks to the Fake Pangolin Pandemic, I haven't gone in to work more than ten days out of the last year. I've saved a bundle on clothes and I'm right now wearing an old St. John's Bay shirt I bought in 2013 for twenty bucks. But since you're interested in my wardrobe, I did buy some new Fruit of the Loom briefs last week. Socks, too.
Since you are curious.
In the abdication of their ConstitutionalresponsibilityDUTY to rule on this matter, the SCOTUS has, itself become in violation of its sworn duty to uphold the Constitution, which begs the question of whether any ruling henceforth can be taken as legitimate.
I was speaking generally and both of those means were used in this very election. Either alternate electors are picked by the legislature or the state is disenfranchised - In this case they were looking for disenfranchisement in just as glaring a political act as any democrat. Use the disenfranchisement to lever an advantage by throwing it to the House. All innocent-like though. :whistle:No one forced the largely Democrat run states at issue to compromise the integrity of their elections through unconstitutional changes to their election laws.
Falsus in uno falsus in omnibusPrecisely.
@Smokin Joe
Falsus in uno falsus in omnibus
@Smokin Joe
Easy enough to check, especially votes cast vs registered (and living) voters. I agree about the "court of public opinion" So, in the parlance of any card player, it's time to call. Let's see the evidence, let's examine this like it was "Russian Collusion" or something of that nature (IOW, really look hard for it) , and if no wrongdoing can be found and Biden's votes can be substantiated as legitimate and Trump's votes as being complete and honest, even now, then I'd settle for the fact that well over half our countrymen are effing idiots who have sh*t for brains and start digging that bunker in earnest.
You get out your pitchfork and start gigging the bastards or bitches.
No one forced the largely Democrat run states at issue to compromise the integrity of their elections through unconstitutional changes to their election laws.
They did that, often to the howling glee of many of their voters, and for that, should suffer some consequences.
Let them take it up with their respective voters, because they are the ones who did it.
If the voters of that State are disenfranchised by the illegal actions of their elected (and appointed) representatives, I would think that via recall, impeachment, or simply the next election, they could sort that out among themselves.
That there should be no consequence for illegal acts, and the results of those acts accepted meekly just as if those directives and rulings had been Constitutionally legitimate only reinforces the concept that the Constitution is void, and the Republic is dead. SCOTUS' cowardice in the matter only adds fuel to that fire.
If that is the case, there is no Republic to save, nor to secede from: it's gone and the descent into tyranny is well under way.
Giggity.
I agree with all of that, except as I said it's way harder in the doing. Other than the bunkers. I got a backhoe.
But there is never any actual proof. No proof for Russia Russia Russia, just like nothing will come of China China China... It's all bullshit, or it ain't... Peas and walnut shells. Too damn many to track... And I'd rather be fishin.
No one forced the largely Democrat run states at issue to compromise the integrity of their elections through unconstitutional changes to their election laws.
They did that, often to the howling glee of many of their voters, and for that, should suffer some consequences.
Let them take it up with their respective voters, because they are the ones who did it.
If the voters of that State are disenfranchised by the illegal actions of their elected (and appointed) representatives, I would think that via recall, impeachment, or simply the next election, they could sort that out among themselves.
That there should be no consequence for illegal acts, and the results of those acts accepted meekly just as if those directives and rulings had been Constitutionally legitimate only reinforces the concept that the Constitution is void, and the Republic is dead. SCOTUS' cowardice in the matter only adds fuel to that fire.
If that is the case, there is no Republic to save, nor to secede from: it's gone and the descent into tyranny is well under way.
It all went to hell when it was all Marcia Marcia Marcia. Everyone was too stoned to care. Still are.
Two decades ago...
I was speaking generally and both of those means were used in this very election. Either alternate electors are picked by the legislature or the state is disenfranchised - In this case they were looking for disenfranchisement in just as glaring a political act as any democrat. Use the disenfranchisement to lever an advantage by throwing it to the House. All innocent-like though. :whistle:Good for you, talking to the general.
And nobody forced the largely Republican legislatures to shut up and take it either.
That's all well and good, but that doesn't resolve the issue that the DEMS have already accomplished stealing the general election -- IF nothing is done to secure a fair election, it doesn't matter how many times you vote out RINO's or how many school board meetings you attend, elections will continue to be stolen and liberals/DEMS will seat whomever they darn well please.
Even if we assume that the integrity of the ballot box is secure, and RINO's are voted out, who will replace them? You actually have to have enough conservatives to run in the first place to make a difference. We have a couple in the Senate who managed to get seated and a handful in the House, but certainly not enough to make a difference and it's been the way for many election cycles.
This country doesn't have numerous elections cycles left before this country completely crumbles and I'm not so sure that she already hasn't.
Try 16 decades ago @roamer_1There was a lead-up to that situation as well. Calhoun was raising Hell in the 1830s.
Good for you, talking to the general.
We have a specific circumstance here, and in the specific circumstance as well as in whatever it is the general is concerned with, the Constitution says that fraudulent electors are to be disregarded and if sufficient fraud exists to deny either party the majority of electors, then the House of Representatives shall vote, with each state's Congressional casting one ballot.
So even the general agrees that there was an honest way out of the mess the Rodents and disgustingly vile Never Trumping Principled Conservatives caused. Instead, those Principled Conservative allied themselves with the Rodents to steal yet another presidential election.
The last time it was done so openly the president they selected was shot and the VP they wanted got 53,000 Americans killed in a pointless war. Much worse than anything the Principled Conservative RINOs have done recently, but they are trying to catch up.
Try 16 decades ago @roamer_1
yep. I was thinking of the 94 Congress as the last gasp.
@Bigun
Decades... He's talking 160 years ago...
Decades... He's talking 160 years ago...
There was a lead-up to that situation as well. Calhoun was raising Hell in the 1830s.
Yes, but he wasn't walking all over the constitution as Mr. Lincoln did for the first six months he was in office.Hardly, more like demanding it be followed.
Please, stop talking. You're making the "principled conservative" class look like idiots.
So just so we’re clear...the Bill Kristol...David French...Joe Walsh (congressman not the guitarist) and the grifters at The Lincoln Project are not and have never been Conservatives.
To label them anti-Trump (they are) and Conservatives (they aren’t) is a false description.
Conflating the two is very disingenuous.
@txradioguy !he Bush Crime Family as "conservatives",and this is done on a daily basis BY people who self-describe as both "Republicans" and as "Conservatives.
*I* place these scum-sucking bastids as being more despicable than out and out globalists like Schulmer. At least with Schulmer we all know what he is and he is proud of it.
RINO's so just go ahead and be honest enough to register as Dims and be done with it. Come out of the freaking closet,you treasonous bastids and own up to what you support !
Better a known enemy at your front staring you in the eye,than a traitor behind you,stabbing you in the back.
Hardly, more like demanding it be followed.
Lincoln, on the other hand suspended Habeas Corpus, rounded up any alleged southern sympathizers, suborned (if not just ordered) the invasion of one State by the Militias (Armies) of other States, impounded the Legislature of that State, imprisoned citizens without charge or trial, and the list foes on. For a solid dash of irony, Frances Scott Key's grandson was imprisoned in Fort McHenry along with scores of others.
When James Ryder Randall penned the words
The despot's heel is on thy shore,
Maryland!
His torch is at thy temple door,
Maryland!
Avenge the patriotic gore
That flecked the streets of Baltimore,
And be the battle queen of yore,
Maryland! My Maryland!
The despot he referred to is Lincoln, the gore from the Pratt Street Riots (first KIA of the War).
So just so we’re clear...the Bill Kristol...David French...Joe Walsh (congressman not the guitarist) and the grifters at The Lincoln Project are not and have never been Conservatives.
To label them anti-Trump (they are) and Conservatives (they aren’t) is a false description.
Conflating the two is very disingenuous.
I knew Bush 41 was a RINO from the days of his crack about "voodoo economics" in the primary debates against Reagan. It's been the favorite way for Liberals to discuss the Reagan economic policies ever since.QuoteMost of the fake Conservatives like Kristol and others have always been quietly part of the open borders new world order sect.
@txradioguy
Kristol grew up in a totally dedicated communist household that worshiped Karl Marx like a God,and yet we are supposed to believe he had a sudden mindset change as an adult,and is suddenly a true conservative?QuoteI'm with you....they just need to quit pretending and register as Democrats and be done with it.
Thank you! I am soooo freaking tired of seeing posters here and on other web sites where I have posted that SEEM to have picked the alleged Republicans they support by taking advise from how the talking heads on the Sunday talk shows describe them. Hell,half of those people thing Stalin was too soft and that's why the USSR collapsed.
:yowsa: All that is true and fails to mention the numerous NORTHERN newspapers he had destroyed because they were editorializing in ways he didn't approve of.
@Bigun
Everything you say about the War of Northern Aggression is true,but you ain't convincing anyone. They KNOW the South started the war,the war was about slavery,and Lincoln was a direct descendant of Gawd!
They know this because their publik skools and their teebees told them this,and would their public skools and teebees lie to them?
I THINK NOT!
Still,it is a valiant effort,and I am glad to see someone still has the patience to deal with people who only want to see "comfortable truths".
... And we're right back to all you need is to prove it.
The only thing that needs to be done is to point out that it has been proven. The garden variety troll tactic of trying to Psaki back to the beginning to restart your failed arguments aren't going to happen.
Hardly, more like demanding it be followed.
Lincoln, on the other hand suspended Habeas Corpus, rounded up any alleged southern sympathizers, suborned (if not just ordered) the invasion of one State by the Militias (Armies) of other States, impounded the Legislature of that State, imprisoned citizens without charge or trial, and the list foes on. For a solid dash of irony, Frances Scott Key's grandson was imprisoned in Fort McHenry along with scores of others.
When James Ryder Randall penned the words
The despot's heel is on thy shore,
Maryland!
His torch is at thy temple door,
Maryland!
Avenge the patriotic gore
That flecked the streets of Baltimore,
And be the battle queen of yore,
Maryland! My Maryland!
The despot he referred to is Lincoln, the gore from the Pratt Street Riots (first KIA of the War).
No, it quite literally has not been proven. You need proof and a venue to present it in - In order to get a result.
That has not happened. And that is what I mean.
Keep whining and crying and throwing dirt in the air - All you'll get is tired.
No, it quite literally has not been proven. You need proof and a venue to present it in - In order to get a result.
That has not happened. And that is what I mean.
Already been proven.
You've already admitted that the states did not follow the law regarding the selection of electors.
You personally have posted that this has happened.
So you've already accepted the minimum proof you needed.
So what are you asking for, a medal?
You are making the point I've been insisting on myself: A "venue to present it" has been consistently denied because of "Standing."
You are also trying to make the "Jazzhead" case that since no evidence was produced in a Federal Court, then it doesn't exist at all. That's a specious argument. :shrug:
We had this talk just the same way a while back. I WILL say I am not willing to paint everybody the way y'all have as a corner to corner conspiracy to 'get Tumpy'... That sorta martyr thinking is designed. I think if you fall for it your mind shuts off.
But yeah - It AIN'T proven in the court of public opinion. Nothing ever is. The only way it does ANYTHING is in a court of law.
I will likely agree with Jazz on that, but maybe for a different reason. My problem is discerning facts among the myriad of gossip-mongers. Even what you think you know may not be true. So relying on the worm-tongues just because they are saying what you want to hear is always a bad move.
Until fact has been established - And fact is established in court - It may as well not exist at all. This sh*t ain't healthy.
Actually, the first KIA of the war were Daniel Hough and Edward Galloway, who were killed when a spark from the salute to the flag exploded a pile of cartridges when the fort was evacuated after heavy fire from criminals on the mainland shore.Friendly fire and accidents don't count. They don't get you a purple heart either.
They weren't killed specifically by the criminals of South Carolina, no, but they wouldn't have fired the gun in salute if they hadn't been forced to evacuate the fort, either.
Friendly fire and accidents don't count. They don't get you a purple heart either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_riot_of_1861 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_riot_of_1861)
[quote author=Bass Wrangler link=topic=430858.msg2392427#msg2392427 date=1615165028
I commend his sticking with his campaign promises, and his clear love for the country, but in every other way his administration was a complete failure. His only legacy is that he handed the country over to America's enemies.
--------------------------------------------------
Clear love for the country................???????
Trump is simply an ignorant and self-absorbed Narcissist in the mold of Jones
and Koresh, infatuated w/himself since the womb; as his Mother well knew.
His destiny is hard prison time for tax fraud involving tens of millions.
Write it down!
[quote author=Bass Wrangler link=topic=430858.msg2392427#msg2392427 date=1615165028
I commend his sticking with his campaign promises, and his clear love for the country, but in every other way his administration was a complete failure. His only legacy is that he handed the country over to America's enemies.
--------------------------------------------------
Clear love for the country................???????
Trump is simply an ignorant and self-absorbed Narcissist in the mold of Jones
and Koresh, infatuated w/himself since the womb; as his Mother well knew.
His destiny is hard prison time for tax fraud involving tens of millions.
Write it down!
No, that would be the RINO's and NT's who failed to support him....that's who "handed this country over to America's enemies". It was people like YOU who betrayed us all and lifted up the Left to its current position...we went into battle against these folks and you either ignored the call to duty and/or deserted us in the heat of battle to sustain your own "purity". The gall you have to come here and blame Trump, your fellow conservatives, and the MAGA movement is absolutely astounding. Physician...heal thyself.
Riiight. Always with the excuses...
Isn't that what Benedict Arnold told George in a letter after he took HIS ball and ran to the other side? Or was that Quisling...not sure which.
If you are an NT you're generally no Brutus...self interested rather than noble of heart, you've likely goy more in common with Ephialtes of Trachis. Its as if the Spartans were to blame for the Persians circling behind them on the hidden path...at least, that's the version of events as painted by NeverTrumpers.
But don't worry roamer...I put you as the exception. You ARE a Brutus...you believe you are doing the honorable thing, even if its certain to lead to worse tyranny and oppression.
What leads to tyranny is big government. PERIOD. Y'all just think you can do big government better than the democrats. You can't. Yours is a caricature of conservatism, not the real thing.
I drink my liberty cold and raw out of mountain streams. You're damn right I will fight for liberty.
That is not what you are doing.
What leads to tyranny is big government. PERIOD. Y'all just think you can do big government better than the democrats. You can't. Yours is a caricature of conservatism, not the real thing.
I drink my liberty cold and raw out of mountain streams. You're damn right I will fight for liberty.
That is not what you are doing.
No, that would be the RINO's and NT's who failed to support him....that's who "handed this country over to America's enemies". It was people like YOU who betrayed us all and lifted up the Left to its current position...we went into battle against these folks and you either ignored the call, to duty, hid from the fight, and/or deserted us in the heat of battle to sustain your own self serving sense of "purity". The gall you have to come here and blame Trump, your fellow conservatives, and the MAGA movement is absolutely astounding. Physician...heal thyself.
"Not participating" != "Fighting for liberty"
:shrug:
Participating in a caricature != 'Fighting for Liberty'
:shrug:
The betrayal is voting for people that do not have the principles nor skills to lead our country. This IS the result. Trump has always been just a different flavor of big government. The great lie of the NT's. Trump is a populist that blows with the wind. It is as simple as demanding that private healthcare insurance cover preexisting conditions. There is nothing constitutional or conservative about that. It contradicts the very definition of insurance. It is simply another massive top down entitlement program with the mirage of being private sector.
Participating in a caricature != 'Fighting for Liberty'
:shrug:
That's just so simplistic...and in great part...quite wrong. Tyranny's have arisen MANY times from anarchy and inept government...moreso than from some "big government" situation. The Czar's in Russia were actually holding quite loosely on to most of the nation...though oppressive in the big cities...when the country spun apart. Weimar was failed and incompetent, but calling it big government would be a terrible misnomer...as another modern example. The new oppressors always BECOME big government, but not through some evolution from what preceded them. And for the record, everyone here opposes big government as a concept.
And your "liberty stream" is drying up because you've facilitated the Left's assumption of power. The REST of us have been fighting alongside the MAGA movement and President Trump for liberty and to sustain that stream...you've done...well...nothing but undermine that movement. I get that you do so out of good intentions...but we all know where good intentions get us when not coupled with wisdom and common sense. Nowhere.
I fight for small government, I believe in making as much of government local as can be done, I fight for liberty and every inch of the Bill of Rights...hell...I fight for fiscal restraint. What I don't do is take a position that would politically destroy conservatism...say...instantaneously expecting a balanced budget and paydown of our debt. Such an effort would lead to generations of liberal supremacy in our political system and decades of exponentially worse fiscal policies...balancing the budget has to be a long term process, not an instantaneous imposition as you wish it to be.
Can you name even ONE Republican "potential" candidate who is perfect enough to garner your support in 2024? Its so easy to sit on the sidelines and point out the flaws, and much harder to back a horse and have a stake in the outcome. You've done nothing but the former and none of the latter...all while sitting in an ivory cabin condemning fellow conservatives for not being pure enough. THAT is the problem with conservatism as a movement...too many of us lack the foresight and wisdom to understand that, when the Huns are pounding at your gates, you don't quibble with each other about rearranging the furniture.
I prefer mine. Less gobbledegook.
The betrayal is voting for people that do not have the principles nor skills to lead our country. This IS the result. Trump has always been just a different flavor of big government. Trump is a populist that blows with the wind. It is as simple as demanding that private healthcare insurance cover preexisting conditions. There is nothing constitutional or conservative about that. It contradicts the very definition of insurance. It is simply another massive top down entitlement program with the mirage of being private sector.
The applicable caricature here is Gabby Hayes ranting in his mountain cabin about the "gubmint" while doing nothing.
Trump certainly is a populist in the sense he draws people who are naturally conservative....blue collar workers, small town folks, rural citizens, escapees from communism (Cubans)...into a powerful coalition that opposes the rising socialism and woke-ism that is pervading the Left. He is also someone who is skilled at motivating people to vote, rally and fight for conservative issues. How horribly populist! He also is a man who governed as conservatively, in terms of policy, as any president in our lifetimes...rivaled ONLY by the great Ronald Reagan.
So no, the MAGA movement embodies all of the traditional positions of conservatism...calling that a betrayal is just another bitter lie of an NT movement that is filled with RINO's (Romneys-Bushes-Cheneys), bitter losers (McCains), and purists who want an entire conservative agenda imposed via fiat in an instant (idiotically impossible). The MAGA movement fights to get every single conservative issue implemented as policy...and it understands that is not an instantaneous process...it takes political will and skill.
Ask yourself this...why does the Left LOVE NeverTrumpers (you fellas, Romney, Bush, Cheney, McCain, etcetera) and their movement....and despise MAGA and President Trump?
Nah. A small government is scared of its subjects. A big government enslaves its subjects. The government that is big enough to 'help' is big enough to enslave. And it will. Conservatism 101. No shit Sherlock, we all agree that small government is better. Your claim that its what, historically leads to tyranny, is just not correct.
I have facilitated nothing. And you have sustained nothing. And I get that what you do, you do with the best of intentions... But then, don't they all. The bottom line:
You got nothing. Government GREW. Government went LEFT. And it cost tens of trillions.
And you wonder why I will not support that. You say "I'd have voted for Cruz" who would have done almost PRECISELY as Trump did in fiscal terms...because Cruz knows he cannot simply impose a balanced budget on his own. Like Trump, he can steer the ocean liner gradually in a direction, and sometimes he can't do that as he must evade the ice berg in his path. As for Cruz and Trump, Cruz would have governed...if anything...less conservatively than Trump because he lacked the ability of Trump to rally public support for conservative policies.
I don't expect anything instantaneous. But I expect it to go in the right direction.
I DO expect a budget. I DO expect that budget to be balanced. I DO expect debt to be addressed.
None of that happened.
Throw the paper to the wind and start printing money. That'll fix it.Nobody here advocates for "throwing paper to the wind"...this is at best a strawman argument. But any GOP President can only do what can be done...they cannot singlehandedly make the government fiscally responsible, that requires a Senate and House that are equally conservative and a populace that will support such action.
That ain't fighting for anything.Another lie, they have fought their asses off for conservatism.
I would have voted for Cruz. I would vote for Rand Paul off the cuff, probably Cotton too. And there you go again spouting bullshit lines about perfection/purity.All of those men are great...and none would have done anything differently than Trump in terms of policy...in fact, they'd almost certainly have been forced into much greater compromise.
Where I stand is upon the STANDARD of political Conservatism. it is the standard Standard. It is what we ALL agreed to fight together to support. The only people claiming that to be unattainable are those who don't want it in the first place.We are all doing that...all of us here are fighting for the standard of Conservatism.
And the Huns ain't the problem. There's a gate between us and them. No, the gate is down and the Horde is pouring into the city on the hill.
It's the Republicans that are the problem. THEY are the ones claiming to defend, that don't defend a single damn thing. Which leads to the dilemma of the OP.And here you are rearranging the furniture while all around you burns and the nation is literally "sacked" by the Lefty horde.
HEAR ME:
Liberalism is not winning on its merit - It has no merit.Of course it doesn't.
Liberalism is winning because it has no opposition.No, its winning because the Left unites and conservatives factionalize.
Think that through. I have.
Y'all ain't no damn different than any other hyphenated Conservatism.cast out first the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye
No, that would be the RINO's and NT's who failed to support him....that's who "handed this country over to America's enemies". It was people like YOU who betrayed us all and lifted up the Left to its current position...we went into battle against these folks and you either ignored the call, to duty, hid from the fight, and/or deserted us in the heat of battle to sustain your own self serving sense of "purity". The gall you have to come here and blame Trump, your fellow conservatives, and the MAGA movement is absolutely astounding. Physician...heal thyself.
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.â€
Theodore Roosevelt:
You are no more conservative than myself nor most of those here on this site. The ONLY difference is that most of us understand we live in a Republic and cannot simply impose all that we want...we have to gain popular support, make politically wise and strategic moves, and...gads...sometimes compromise as Reagan advocated to get the 80% conservative solution.
How can any of us escape the arena? We all continue to be ground down by the burden of ever expanding government.
It's easy to cloister oneself away from the rest of the population and sling brickbats at those trying to win.
No it is not. The herd demands you join them as a mighty cattle stampede.
And you're branded a traitor for not following the populist lemmings over the cliff
And maybe those brickbats are meant to turn the herd.
WIN friggin WHAT?
It's easy to cloister oneself away from the rest of the population and sling brickbats at those trying to win.
It's easy to cloister oneself away from the rest of the population and sling brickbats at those trying to win.
A thousand-post Topic that got liberty nowhere. Nobody wins, just like what happens to crabs in a barrel.
I don't see how fighting for a different slave master leads to winning. Both major parties are corrupt to their core and serve only their own masters. Some masters may throw more bread crumbs than others but slaves they remain.
Otherwise, the only option is the Holler, and very few of us can exercise that option.
Pushing a thousand posts, and not a single mind was changed in either direction. It's disappointing. But, I can control what I do, and I'm not giving up so easily.
Right. Because the lion's share go chasing after bumperstickers and one-liners and don't really expect performance.
SERIOUSLY DUDE. I was thus accused EXACTLY for not voting for John Friggin McCain't And Romulous. The very same tired old bullcrap arguments as are falling out of @Mesaclone 's mouth RIGHT NOW.
Y'all forget too fast how each of them were ALSO painted as sainted conservatives. And their accolytes speak the very same as Tumpy's.
Standing here where I always have, I can tell you, it is exactly the same. And it has NOTHING to do with winning for Conservatives.
Neither am I. And I resent your joining that common accusation.
I don't see how fighting for a different slave master leads to winning. Both major parties are corrupt to their core and serve only their own masters. Some masters may throw more bread crumbs than others but slaves they remain.I don't see how anyone can't see the difference between what Trump was doing, how both parties reacted to it, and whats happening now.
Right. Because the lion's share go chasing after bumperstickers and one-liners and don't really expect performance.
SERIOUSLY DUDE. I was thus accused EXACTLY for not voting for John Friggin McCain't And Romulous. Maybe you should ponder how McCain and Romney despised Trump for being SO YUGELY different from them in philosophy and governance.The very same tired old bullcrap arguments as are falling out of @Mesaclone 's mouth RIGHT NOW. No. Not the same at all. Trump is the anti-Romney and anti-McCain. How can you be so blind as not to see that...its almost prima facie.
Y'all forget too fast how each of them were ALSO painted as sainted conservatives. And their accolytes speak the very same as Tumpy's. Its the denizens of McCain/Romney who drive your NeverTrump movement...my god...these are your closest allies. Trump is the antithesis of everything those two stand for and they hate him for it.
Standing here where I always have, I can tell you, it is exactly the same. And it has NOTHING to do with winning for Conservatives.MAGA folks are no less principled and staunchly conservative than yourself...you are deluding yourself in a very self aggrandizing way if you believe that. I respect your beliefs...in part because I and nearly every MAGA supporter hold the same beliefs. Where we part with you is HOW we actuate those beliefs in a way that actually gets them into legislation and governance.
Crab Mentality (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality)
I don't see how anyone can't see the difference between what Trump was doing, how both parties reacted to it, to whats happening now.
@Absalom----------------------
Nobody really give a flip about what you think,Princess.
No wins. The ball moved LEFT, The power of the federal state GREW. And tens of trillions of dollars of our treasure was taken.
What am I missing?
What leads to tyranny is big government. PERIOD. Y'all just think you can do big government better than the democrats. You can't. Yours is a caricature of conservatism, not the real thing.
Maybe you should ponder how McCain and Romney despised Trump for being SO YUGELY different from them in philosophy and governance.
No. Not the same at all. Trump is the anti-Romney and anti-McCain. How can you be so blind as not to see that...its almost prima facie.
Its the denizens of McCain/Romney who drive your NeverTrump movement...my god...these are your closest allies. Trump is the antithesis of everything those two stand for and they hate him for it.
MAGA folks are no less principled and staunchly conservative than yourself...you are deluding yourself in a very self aggrandizing way if you believe that. I respect your beliefs...in part because I and nearly every MAGA supporter hold the same beliefs. Where we part with you is HOW we actuate those beliefs in a way that actually gets them into legislation and governance.
@Mesaclone I don't know if you followed the debate on the accomplishments of Ronald Reagan. But @roamer_1 was absolutely adamant that it was okay President Reagan grew the size of government and blew the lid off the national debt. He proved that the principle in principled conservatism is fiscal responsibility is fluid, depending not on the reason, but on the President incurring the debt.
Roamer proved his ilk are, at best, hypocrites, at worst, flat out liars. IMHO, trolls should be on an enforced hunger strike.
ah just wait there will plenty more gone missing
The power of the federal state GREW. And tens of trillions of dollars of our treasure was taken. What am I missing?
No wins. The ball moved LEFT, The power of the federal state GREW. And tens of trillions of dollars of our treasure was taken.You widen your criticism from Trump to include the GOP and then the rat congress to suit your argument. I have nothing good to say about the GOP nor the rat congress yet as president Trump did pretty damn well.
What am I missing?
No I was not in favor of it. You are putting words in my mouth.
That all of this pointing-up is perfectly okay with you if Ronald Reagan's signing the rubber checks, growing the government and blowing the lid off our national debt..
Your principled conservative schtick is over. Hypocrite.
You're lying.
BULLSHIT.
No I am not. If you care to go back there and continue this then ping me there.
I said I was less concerned with what happened under Reagan because Conservatism was in it's infancy in American politics. I said that's a whole different thing after thirty YEARS of failure in that regard.
I also questioned the point - as inflation went DOWN under Reagan, spending went DOWN under Reagan, and interest stayed stable.
Your excuse with your hand in the cookie jar in noted.
In before it is locked.
You widen your criticism from Trump to include the GOP and then the rat congress to suit your argument. I have nothing good to say about the GOP nor the rat congress yet as president Trump did pretty damn well.
There is no distinction Tumpy is the head of the GOP. It is all the same thing.
And no, by the numbers, Tumpy did horribly.
I don't see how anyone can't see the difference between what Trump was doing, how both parties reacted to it, and whats happening now.
There is no distinction Tumpy is the head of the GOP. It is all the same thing.
And no, by the numbers, Tumpy did horribly.
No, that would be the RINO's and NT's who failed to support him....that's who "handed this country over to America's enemies". It was people like YOU who betrayed us all and lifted up the Left to its current position...we went into battle against these folks and you either ignored the call, to duty, hid from the fight, and/or deserted us in the heat of battle to sustain your own self serving sense of "purity". The gall you have to come here and blame Trump, your fellow conservatives, and the MAGA movement is absolutely astounding. Physician...heal thyself.--------------------
Right back at ya, mountain man.
Your only way to defend yourself, after years of your bullshit preaching and insulting, is to say clearly and loudly that Ronald Reagan, the granddaddy of our modern debt, was wrong to blow the lid off our national debt, paving the way for generations of debt we'll never see our way clear of.
Further admit that by YOUR own definition of principled conservatives, Ronald Reagan was not one.
Worse than Ronnie?
HEAR ME NOW: I ENDORSE NO DEBT. NONE. EVER.
.
By your measure and your measure only, because you are unwilling to look at any other metric.
I have no problem with criticizing Trump for what is fair to hold him alone accountable, but I find your conveniently expanding your criticism to include others over whom he had very little control, just for arguments sake, a bit frustrating.
Despite the yelling and rambling, you do. You have deemed the massive debt incurred under and through Reagan was necessary and good.
Hypocrite, heal thyself.
Exponentially.
How could it be exponentially when President Trump was just following in Reagan's footsteps?
NO, I FRIGGIN DID NOT. WHAT PART OF "I ENDORSE NO DEBT" Don't you understand?
:pondering:
Let's see what conservative stances are on a few issues...
Pro Life, Pro 2nd Amendment, Pro fiscal responsibility, anti Big Government, anti book burning, pro free speech, pro States rights, and a bunch of other issues.
Every supporter of each of these stands will claim (very loudly if necessary) that their select one of these items ties to every other issue. Hence, all positive achievements by a given President can be ignored if he does not meet a subjective interpretation of how he stands on that one thing.
This is why just about every Republican feels justified in trashing every other Republican. No wonder everybody's pissed off. Why every crab in a bucket will pull back any one crab attempting to escape.
TWENTY TRILLION DOLLARS. Next question.
I understand you're not being truthful.
Every President since Ronald Reagan followed his lead on the national debt. Every. one.
Naw, it ain't that. YOU GOT NOTHING. AGAIN.
It's that.
I believe I was making exactly that point, in a backhanded way.
Flub one issue, as measured by subjective means, and none of the rest matter one wit. Even the theft of a National election does not move that observer.
If I ever run for a higher office, I will not be sharing my adventures here.
That all of this pointing-up is perfectly okay with you if Ronald Reagan's signing the rubber checks, growing the government and blowing the lid off our national debt..
Your principled conservative schtick is over. Hypocrite.
We won the cold war with that debt. Reagan's total was about $1.85 trillion over eight years. And for the record I was unhappy about that too but crushing the Soviet Union was a major positive thing to come out of it. People were substantially better off in much of the world when Reagan left office compared to when he took it.
What have we won with the last 10 trillion under Trump in just four years??? How many people are substantially better off anywhere in the world when he left office compared to when he entered it?
I dunno - a burgeoning economy, energy independence, a rebuilt military, rising wages, enhanced prestige overseas. I'd say if it weren't for the Covid Trump's administration would've compared very favorably to Reagan's.
But it don't. And it was not lasting. Could not be lasting. It was all built on EOs.An impossible standard.
No martyrs. RESULTS please.
An impossible standard.
You're kidding, right?
Winning NOTHING is alright? That's the only standard we can hope for?
You're kidding, right?And what is your DCP brethren doing that is so great?
Winning NOTHING is alright? That's the only standard we can hope for?
There were wins that I refuse to itemize for the umpteenth time, but DEFICIT! 100% fail.
The sooner everybody realizes it, the sooner this conversation to nowhere ends.
And what is your DCP brethren doing that is so great?
WTF are you going on about?Your Democrat Communist Party you so love.
Your Democrat Communist Party you so love.
Your lie is so apparent it isn't worth the comment.Well, yeah you do have a dog in this hunt.
I am fighting liberal Right in Tumpy, why the hell would I be affiliated with Democrats?
Don't be an idiot.
I offer NO impetus to ANY side. I am against ALL sides, I have NO dog in the hunt.
Well, yeah you do have a dog in this hunt.
Otherwise you wouldn't be so reluctant to give credit where it is so obviously due.
Your Democrat Communist Party you so love.
Where is it due?I'll judge him on his accomplishments. As I will judge those who undid them.
My position is unchanged from the very beginning...
EOs and Judges don't count. Judge him on what you got to KEEP.
What is that?
Bullshit, he is not. Knock it off. Calling people "Democrats" on TBR is considered a personal attack.
I'll judge him on his accomplishments. As I will judge those who undid them.
Its not hard to understand.
Yes in fact it IS. I don't understand your definition of accomplishments.James Madison wrote the first amendment. Today the left is dismantling it.
To me, that is something that actually matters and stays around.
One I will give you that still stands: SO far as I know, the US embassy is still in Jerusalem.
That he did it is fine and all.
That it stands makes it count.
And that is excellent.
James Madison wrote the first amendment. Today the left is dismantling it.
Does that mean he accomplished nothing?
Thanks for that.
N00bs....LOL.
That it stood all these years is grand.
And when it is gone, yes, that ends his accomplishment - It won't matter anymore.
True. But I'll still be glad he existed and grateful for his efforts.
That's fine. But the point is to WIN. For Conservatism.Given your definition of winning, conservatives don’t win till Judgment Day.
Where is that?
Given your definition of winning, conservatives don’t win till Judgment Day.
---------------------------
Let's see what conservative stances are on a few issues.
Pro Life, Pro 2nd Amendment, Pro fiscal responsibility, anti Big Government, anti book burning, pro free speech, pro States rights, and a bunch of other issues.
Every supporter of each of these stands will claim very loudly if necessary that their select one of these items ties to every other issue. Hence, all positive achievements by a given President can be ignored if he does not meet a subjective interpretation of how he stands on that one thing.
This is why just about every Republican feels justified in trashing every other Republican.
No wonder everybody's pissed off. Why every crab in a bucket will pull back any one crab
attempting to escape.
My definition of winning is moving the ball to the right... Winning decisively on an issue, any issue at all.Oh I DEMAND alright. I just refuse to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. And I’ll continue to place blame where it rightfully belongs.
The point I am making is that this is why the Right never wins. And yeah, never will.
I stand on the Conservative standard.
I DEMAND performance. I seek out others who will perform.
I am not satisfied eternally with less.
Reagan has been stretched to mean nothing... 'well, be satisfied with 80%' someone opined up above...
I would be bowled over to see 20%... Y'all got NOTHING... AGAIN.
Y'all got to set your sights higher and demand some actual long-lasting wins.
Or yeah. Never till judgement day.
And that's by any standard that actually wins.
Oh you damn betcha.
No, that would be the RINO's and NT's who failed to support him....that's who "handed this country over to America's enemies". It was people like YOU who betrayed us all and lifted up the Left to its current position...we went into battle against these folks and you either ignored the call, to duty, hid from the fight, and/or deserted us in the heat of battle to sustain your own self serving sense of "purity". The gall you have to come here and blame Trump, your fellow conservatives, and the MAGA movement is absolutely astounding. Physician...heal thyself.Just who do you think was the group who 'settled' for the fraud? It wasn't anyone who loves America. BTW, pull your head out and look around, because the people you are calling "RINOs" are the mainstream GOP, its leaders, and all the folks who have dutifully held their positions as an ineffective minority, replete with excuses for not using power when it was handed to them on a silver platter. They had the power to stop all the current EO horse manure with legislation during the first couple of years of Trump's Administration, they knew full well anything that would benefit the country would have been signed in a New York second, but they sat on their thumbs. Why was that?
Oh I DEMAND alright. I just refuse to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. And I’ll continue to place blame where it rightfully belongs.
You widen your criticism from Trump to include the GOP and then the rat congress to suit your argument. I have nothing good to say about the GOP nor the rat congress yet as president Trump did pretty damn well.
Just who do you think was the group who 'settled' for the fraud? It wasn't anyone who loves America. BTW, pull your head out and look around, because the people you are calling "RINOs" are the mainstream GOP, its leaders, and all the folks who have dutifully held their positions as an ineffective minority, replete with excuses for not using power when it was handed to them on a silver platter. They had the power to stop all the current EO horse manure with legislation during the first couple of years of Trump's Administration, they knew full well anything that would benefit the country would have been signed in a New York second, but they sat on their thumbs. Why was that?
They are Swamp critters, same as the Democrats.
So before you upbraid the rest of us for "not supporting" yadda yadda yadda, you'd best better clean those perfidious bastards out of the Party, otherwise, there is no more reason to support it than the Communists across the aisle. Neither one is doing anyone outside their little Beltway empire a damned bit of good, unless, of course the kickbacks are happening.
The Congressional GOP had the power to DEMAND the stolen states be investigated fully, and to DEMAND that charges be pressed or results be cleaned up and they did bugger-all but meekly acquiesce.
It didn't matter how many votes Trump got.
Wrap your skull around that, because they were being shifted over to Biden and compensated for by algorithms in the tabulation machines, and once the 'gap closing' spikes were in place, the rest of the result was guaranteed.
That those obvious and coordinated thefts were accepted is where the real stink rises, and it isn't from Democrats or NTs, or what you call "RINOs", it's from people well within the GOP power structure who got just the result they wanted.
I believe I was making exactly that point, in a backhanded way.
Flub one issue, as measured by subjective means, and none of the rest matter one wit. Even the theft of a National election does not move that observer.
If I ever run for a higher office, I will not be sharing my adventures here.
You should (run for a higher office) The experience is HIGHLY educational whether or not you choose to share what you learn with anyone.
@Cyber Liberty
The survival of conservatism in America hangs by a thread...and you do nothing because the rest of us aren't pure enough.
There's just nothing smart OR principled about such a stand...its simply self serving and short sighted. Holding to principles is not a YOU thing...its an all of us here thing. But this is a political philosophy, not a religious doctrine...we can have differences without considering each other apostates and heretics. Trump was, no doubt, imperfect in his conservatism...he was also unnecessarily abrasive and condescending at times. Reagan too, had his flaws...he often saw the good in his opponents when it wasn't there...for example.
So...yes Trump fell short as most men do...of the perfect conservative standard...but the son of a bitch fought to get everything conservative he could into legislation. And when that couldn't be done, he used Exec orders as much as was feasible. He governed conservatively...plain and simple...and just as conservatively as Reagan.
Another meaningless trope.Sez you.
Never win... Never get anything. STFU and pull the lever... Because Democrats...
That's what it means.
Bullshit, he is not. Knock it off. Calling people "Democrats" on TBR is considered a personal attack.
I dunno - a burgeoning economy, energy independence, a rebuilt military, rising wages, enhanced prestige overseas. I'd say if it weren't for the Covid Trump's administration would've compared very favorably to Reagan's.
Ya but...It is just not rational to blame Trump for those things.
Trump had a major part in the Covid response.
The "burgeoning economy" is going to be swallowed by inflation due to the massive devaluing of the dollar. That energy independence was a blink of the eye. The military is not rebuilt. It is more woke/PC than ever.
Thanks for that.
For the record, I do not think you anything other than a true conservative and an honest man. It is only your method that I reproach, never your integrity nor your positions on policy. That may not be worth much to you, but there it is.Well said @Mesaclone
Anyone know who I can leave this thread?
@Mod1
That might be true of you or I,but how do you know it to be true for the poster under discussion?
Ever heard the phrase,"If it looks like a duck,walks like a duck,and quacks like a duck,it's a freaking duck!"?
It is just not rational to blame Trump for those things.
What did Trump do to protect the constitution and stop the lock downs?Your choice in 2024 will be Trump or Harris.
What significant spending bill did Trump veto to block even some of the wild spending in congress?
And if Trump was or is the answer in the future and he was not able to do anything about these things then why is he the answer at all?
It is well past time to move on regarding Trump.
You either live within your means, or you spend lavishly and push the bill onto your children, grandchildren, and so on. One of these options is Conservative. The other is not. Ask yourself which one you choose to support. No excuses.
For the record, I do not think you anything other than a true conservative and an honest man. It is only your method that I reproach, never your integrity nor your positions on policy. That may not be worth much to you, but there it is.
You either live within your means, or you spend lavishly and push the bill onto your children, grandchildren, and so on. One of these options is Conservative. The other is not. Ask yourself which one you choose to support. No excuses.
Your choice in 2024 will be Trump or Harris.
In some respects,I consider myself to be one of the luckiest creatures in the world. This is especially true when it comes to the point of putting it above everything else.
I truly want what is within my budget,I buy it and don't worry about it. If it is something absurdly above my means,like a Porsche 911 Turbo,I just shrug it off and say "Oh,well." Nice to have,but not necessary.
Do you understand that the federal government spent about $50,000 for every man woman and child in the US BEYOND what it took in over just Trump's presidency?
That is not trivial or without profound consequences. It is an epic failure by our leaders.
It insures that future generations will not live as well as we have.
It is simply insane and the death throes of dying Republic.
What did Trump do to protect the constitution and stop the lock downs?I wish you would.
What significant spending bill did Trump veto to block even some of the wild spending in congress?
And if Trump was or is the answer in the future and he was not able to do anything about these things then why is he the answer at all?
It is well past time to move on regarding Trump.
I owe it all to a old Master Sgt I was talking to one night while we were both on Charge of Quarters duty at Bragg.
Or neither, or other.
Nope. A neither or other IS a vote for Harris and permanent Socialism. Vote as you will, of course, but know that if nothing else.
I wish you would.
Nope. A neither or other IS a vote for Harris and permanent Socialism. Vote as you will, of course, but know that if nothing else.
I can't as long as people demand he's the answer in 2024. More of the same won't fix anything.
In fact, the fetid state of your party is precisely due to that thinking. You will vote for them, no matter what, no matter what they do, in the vain excuse that they are better than Democrats.
And that state precluded your hero from his herculean acts.
There ya go.
Put simply, the country doesn’t have time for your bullshit. There is one man who’s shown the will AND the capability to fight back...even those you claim you could support like Cruz, Paul and Cotton understand this...you either fight with the flawed leader we have or you let the Commies end this Republic.
That’s the only REAL choices left to any American. I wish it were otherwise but believing that would be a dangerous self delusion. This is the fight to save the Republic...opting it IS a decision to give the country over to the Left in perpetuity.
Could it have possibly been a tall lanky black guy named Chandler? @sneakypete
There is one man who’s shown the will AND the capability to fight back...even those you claim you could support like Cruz, Paul and Cotton understand this...you either fight with the flawed leader we have or you let the Commies end this Republic.
Do you understand that the federal government spent about $50,000 for every man woman and child in the US BEYOND what it took in over just Trump's presidency?
That is not trivial or without profound consequences. It is an epic failure by our leaders.
It insures that future generations will not live as well as we have.
It is simply insane and the death throes of dying Republic.
Here’s where you go wrong. If this was America 1999 you’d have a point. But that’s not where we are. The proper analogy is Weimar Germany 1928....with the various conservative and centrist parties bickering with each other over how many angels sit astride the point of a needle....whilst the Socialists assume total power ((“National†Socialists in that particular case...Dem Socialists in our current dilemma) through manipulations of the ballot box and demagoguery.
You are focused on getting people to vote for more staunchly conservative candidates...a noble sentiment...by refusing to vote for those you deem insufficiently conservative...a common refrain of German conservative parties in 1928. Meanwhile, the Republic is being stolen away thanks to the internal bickering and disunity of the Right.
Put simply, the country doesn’t have time for your bullshit. There is one man who’s shown the will AND the capability to fight back...even those you claim you could support like Cruz, Paul and Cotton understand this...you either fight with the flawed leader we have or you let the Commies end this Republic.
That’s the only REAL choices left to any American. I wish it were otherwise but believing that would be a dangerous self delusion. This is the fight to save the Republic...opting out IS your right, but, it IS a decision to give the country over to the Left in perpetuity.
:amen:
I didn't initially support Trump. I didn't like how he campaigned in the Pub primaries and didn't trust him to follow through on what he promised he would do. I sure came around! Trump fights.
Absolutely not. You still don't get it. It don't matter a whit whatever I have admitted. Bark at the moon. Go ahead. It's going NOWHERE. And that is the point. Does it help somehow if I were to cave in and accept your POV?
Not even a damn little bit. You got nothin.
Friendly fire and accidents don't count. They don't get you a purple heart either.
What leads to tyranny is big government. PERIOD.
Who is doing nothing? I do plenty. You're just pissed I won't do for YOU and your feckless movement. :shrug:
@Absalom @Mesaclone
I would be in complete agreement if it weren't for the fact that I don't even think he is a RINO . As bad as "Party People" can be,they aren't THAT bad. He is nothing less than a leftist posing as a Rino.
Which,really isn't as big a step to the left that some of you think it would be.
If Trump were the answer, we wouldn't be where we are now. He had his shot.
A simple point of fact. Excuses doesn't change that fact.
If the country's course is going to be changed for the better in any long term way, it won't be through Trump. And the sooner people start realizing that the sooner we can try something that will work - smaller government with less authority over our lives. The biggest increase of control over our lives occurred under Trump's leadership over the last year. The economic destruction far exceeds what any war has done going back to at least WWII. As a populist he blew with the wind. A principled leader would have put the constitution he/she swore to uphold first.
It is time to move on from Trump.
You have not got 80% of ANYTHING in 30 friggin years. You have not won the field on a single damn thing. You have lost ground over and over and over.
That ain't fighting. That's compromising with the devil. Go ahead and hang together... And keep selling that same ol bullcrap that has not won anything ever.
You won't get any help from me. Not till you Show me the Damn Money. SPIT.
You see this last four years as some sort of great performance. I don't see sh*t. Not a single win. I see fecklessness and bullshit. Just like always.
So no.
Neither am I. And I resent your joining that common accusation.
No wins. The ball moved LEFT, The power of the federal state GREW. And tens of trillions of dollars of our treasure was taken.
What am I missing?
ah just wait there will plenty more gone missing
@Mesaclone I don't know if you followed the debate on the accomplishments of Ronald Reagan. But @roamer_1 was absolutely adamant that it was okay President Reagan grew the size of government and blew the lid off the national debt. He proved that the principle in principled conservatism is fiscal responsibility is fluid, depending not on the reason, but on the President incurring the debt.
Roamer proved his ilk are, at best, hypocrites, at worst, flat out liars. IMHO, trolls should be on an enforced hunger strike.
Because there's no "evidence" behind it?...hmmmm?
Theater.[/quote
Theater? Traitor McStain's one vote stopped Trump from successfully repealing the unconstitutional MessiahCare scam that devastated American health care.
That's not theater, that's betrayal.
Traitor McStain opposed GW Bush's tax cuts.
That's not theater, that's betrayal.
That Ass Romney is the ONLY Senator to ever vote for the impeachment of a president from his own party.
And the basis for impeachment was not only proven to be a malicious lie, it was known to be a malicious lie before the impeachment was started in the House.
This isn't theater from the Left's heroes, it's treason.
There is no distinction Tumpy is the head of the GOP. It is all the same thing.
And no, by the numbers, Tumpy did horribly.
Every President since Ronald Reagan followed his lead on the national debt. Every. one.
We won the cold war with that debt. Reagan's total was about $1.85 trillion over eight years. And for the record I was unhappy about that too but crushing the Soviet Union was a major positive thing to come out of it. People were substantially better off in much of the world when Reagan left office compared to when he took it.
What have we won with the last 10 trillion under Trump in just four years??? How many people are substantially better off anywhere in the world when he left office compared to when he entered it?
You're kidding, right?
Winning NOTHING is alright? That's the only standard we can hope for?
There were wins that I refuse to itemize for the umpteenth time, but DEFICIT! 100% fail.
The sooner everybody realizes it, the sooner this conversation to nowhere ends.
Quote from: roamer_1"You have not got 80% of ANYTHING in 30 friggin years. You have not won the field on a single damn thing. You have lost ground over and over and over.
That ain't fighting. That's compromising with the devil. Go ahead and hang together... And keep selling that same ol bullcrap that has not won anything ever.
You won't get any help from me. Not till you Show me the Damn Money. SPIT.
You see this last four years as some sort of great performance. I don't see sh*t. Not a single win. I see fecklessness and bullshit. Just like always.
So no."
The Americans stopped the coronation of the Drunken Harridan.
And more Americans voted for Donald Trump than any presidential candidate ever in history, including the current mindless occupant seated at the Resolute Desk.
And, no, the Americans aren't expecting any help from the self-proclaimed Principled Conservatives to restore America to it's glory. Principled Conservatives are neither.
The conversation has to acknowledge WHY the deficit isn't being addressed.
And Trump is not that reason.
Paul Ryan, McTurtle, McStain, Romney and every other RINO squish who betrays us is.
The RINOs vote for the budget scams.
....
Whining about "deficit deficit deficit" when the house is one fire, and blaming the fire chief and not the arsonist is the first issue of the day.
Our last fire chief was REALLY good compared to most. So the problem clearly isn't with him. He doesn't hold the matches or the gasoline.
The Americans stopped the coronation of the Drunken Harridan.Because roamer_1 is about as conservative as Geraldo Rivera or Traitor Joe.
And more Americans voted for Donald Trump than any presidential candidate ever in history, including the current mindless occupant seated at the Resolute Desk.
And, no, the Americans aren't expecting any help from the self-proclaimed Principled Conservatives to restore America to it's glory. Principled Conservatives are neither.
It sure is interesting that when Trump criticized the R party establishment during the 2016 primaries for its ineffectiveness, and even refused to commit his support to the eventual R nominee during one of the candidate debates, he was held up by many as a visionary, transformative leader; when my friend @roamer_1 here criticizes the R party establishment, and Trump, for their ineffectiveness and refuses to commit his support to R party nominees, he is denounced as a democrat.
Trump's supporters spoke as one : they would no longer accept that failure to support the party essentially meant supporting the Ds. But by the eve of the 2016 general election they were telling the rest of us that failure to support Trump essentially meant supporting the Ds. And what do you know, we're still hearing the same argument now.
Why is it that Trump's self-glorifying pro-Trump/damn the R party stance was admirable, while roamer_1's objective pro-Conservativism/damn the R party stance isn't?
Because roamer_1 is about as conservative as Geraldo Rivera or Traitor Joe.
Look n00b...I'm not sure if you think you're amassing cool points or hoping to boost your cred with certain people around here...but you're just looking like a trollish bleep.Blah blah blah. If he's as conservative as they come then there is no such thing as conservative.
@roamer_1 is as conservative as they come. He doesn't need to justify himself to some recently arrived schmuck who's only claim to fame here so far is picking fights with long term rock ribbed conservatives.
Just a word of advice...sit back and listen and learn and start using your brain before you hit send on your next post. The mods won't be as nice nor will they give you the advice I've given you.
Just because someone doesn't think that Trump isn't the second coming or the most Conservative POTUS we've ever had (he isn't)...doesn't mean that person is a raging Liberal...I know that might be hard for the two working brain cells you have left to comprehend...but that's thats reality outside the small cloistered world of political discussion boards.
:yowsa: Exact same boat! Never voted for him until this year and I did so based solely on his performance in office.
Look n00b...I'm not sure if you think you're amassing cool points or hoping to boost your cred with certain people around here...but you're just looking like a trollish bleep.
Don't worry about this pointing-up guy @Killer Clouds Our very own @txradioguy doesn't like new members who challenge his friends.
Keep on truckin' .... :yowsa:
Because roamer_1 is about as conservative as Geraldo Rivera or Traitor Joe.
@roamer_1 has an in-depth, principled, and consistent understanding of Conservatism, which he has described here more than once. Informed by writers from Burke to Kirk, he recognizes that a Conservatism of politics only is no Conservatism at all, and he insists on the complete, genuine article, not a veneered populism.Like was said earlier if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's duck.
Right now he's the subject of considerable derision around here because he refuses to yield, but that is also in the nature of Conservatism - it refuses to yield. Of course you are free to disagree with him - sometimes I do - but he has more than earned his bona fides.
Blah blah blah. If he's as conservative as they come then there is no such thing as conservative.
Don't worry about this pointing-up guy @Killer Clouds Our very own @txradioguy doesn't like new members who challenge his friends.
Keep on truckin' .... :yowsa:
Like was said earlier if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it's duck.
Helping the enemy is a classic signature of the Principled Conservative.
The Americans stopped the coronation of the Drunken Harridan.
And more Americans voted for Donald Trump than any presidential candidate ever in history, including the current mindless occupant seated at the Resolute Desk.
And, no, the Americans aren't expecting any help from the self-proclaimed Principled Conservatives to restore America to it's glory. Principled Conservatives are neither.
I haven't helped the enemy - I just haven't helped !YOU! and your feckless movement....
The understanding that whining doesn't move mountains, but moles can.
What's the first step in steering the Titanic away from the iceberg?
Making sure a Drunken Harridan doesn't get to give the orders.
What's the next step the new captain has to take?
Ordering helm to port (well, starboard actually, but the real Titanic struck on the starboard side) AND having a crew willing to obey his lawful orders.
So the first step was taken. The Titanic takes miles to turn, and not only the Rodents but the Whiners (ahem!) were the mutineers and the helm thus never responded.
Thanks, Principled Conservatives, we can move forward without you from here.
Those treasonous idiots want to go immediately, in just one election, from the totalitarian regime of Obama to Libertarian Paradise. They tend to forget that even the Founders had their traitors, who passed the Alien and Sedition Act, etc.
And, naturally, because the Principled Conservatives are at heart traitors to liberty, they insist on perfection and want to be the sand in the bearings to stop all movement until their sick idea of perfection is reached. They profit by their treason, so they won't call it treason.
Theater.
Theater? Traitor McStain's one vote stopped Trump from successfully repealing the unconstitutional MessiahCare scam that devastated American health care.
That's not theater, that's betrayal.
Traitor McStain opposed GW Bush's tax cuts.
That's not theater, that's betrayal.
That Ass Romney is the ONLY Senator to ever vote for the impeachment of a president from his own party.
And the basis for impeachment was not only proven to be a malicious lie, it was known to be a malicious lie before the impeachment was started in the House.
This isn't theater from the Left's heroes, it's treason.
Helping the enemy is a classic signature of the Principled Conservative.
You mean by the numbers of millions of new jobs? Or the numbers of Invaders kept on the other side of our borders?
Maybe you're referring to the numbers of dollars the Europeons had to pay NATO to cover their debts?
The Americans didn't win "nothing".
We won four years of Hillary Isn't President, and we're still in that wonderful era. Whoever has their hand shoved up Biden's backside isn't Hillary. It's Obama.
The conversation has to acknowledge WHY the deficit isn't being addressed.
And Trump is not that reason.
Let's not encourage nOObs to draw bans? J/S. He was already warned by a Mod.
That's awfully rich coming from the very person that wanted to and still wants to purge every member from here that doesn't kiss Trump's bright orange ass. Sit down. You have no room to critique anyone here.
Of course.TumpyRonnie is NEVER to blame.
Of course it's his fault. He's the guy at the top.
When my company messed up, Nobody was interested in my saying 'it's not my fault'.
Of course it was my fault. Mine before anyone else, because I run the joint.
Why is it that Trump's self-glorifying pro-Trump/damn the R party stance was admirable, while roamer_1's objective pro-Conservativism/damn the R party stance isn't?
The primary accountability for the Federal Debt lies with Congress, not with any President. That's simply a Constitutional fact.
But that last "fire chief" had nary a single word to say about fire prevention; he can't determine the budget, but he can certainly use the bully pulpit, and he completely failed to do so.
Look n00b...I'm not sure if you think you're amassing cool points or hoping to boost your cred with certain people around here...but you're just looking like a trollish bleep.
@roamer_1 is as conservative as they come. He doesn't need to justify himself to some recently arrived schmuck who's only claim to fame here so far is picking fights with long term rock ribbed conservatives.
Just a word of advice...sit back and listen and learn and start using your brain before you hit send on your next post. The mods won't be as nice nor will they give you the advice I've given you.
Just because someone doesn't think that Trump isn't the second coming or the most Conservative POTUS we've ever had (he isn't)...doesn't mean that person is a raging Liberal...I know that might be hard for the two working brain cells you have left to comprehend...but that's thats reality outside the small cloistered world of political discussion boards.
@roamer_1 has an in-depth, principled, and consistent understanding of Conservatism, which he has described here more than once. Informed by writers from Burke to Kirk, he recognizes that a Conservatism of politics only is no Conservatism at all, and he insists on the complete, genuine article, not a veneered populism.
Right now he's the subject of considerable derision around here because he refuses to yield, but that is also in the nature of Conservatism - it refuses to yield. Of course you are free to disagree with him - sometimes I do - but he has more than earned his bona fides.
Lock and load buddy, I've been waiting on you.......
The way I see it, He signed his name. He owns every dime. Had he VETOED, even ineffectually, that'd be different.
Fixed it for you.
Because roamer_1 is about as conservative as Geraldo Rivera or Traitor Joe.
I am standing PRECISELY in the principles of Conservatism.
I am standing PRECISELY in the principles of Conservatism.
The questions we will have to confront is what will happen if the dollar stops being the benchmark currency and is replaced by the yuan?
What a lot of these newcomers and n00bs to the Republican party don't seem to understand is that Conservatism isn't just a political philosophy...it's a way of life. It's a set of standards and values we apply to our every day life and how we interact with the world.
A philosophy will change and evolve over time...your standards and values generally do not.
Those of us that have taken on Conservatism as our way of live have changed very little in our political belief system since we embraced it.
You get that...I get that and a few others get that. But a lot of folks think Conservatism is whatever is popular at the time.
It just doesn't work that way.
Except when an affable president blows the lid off the national debt and fails to implement one policy or executive order to advance social "morality" --- Because the strongest, eternal principle of your branch of conservatism is style over substance.
That's right. I had the good fortune to be a voracious reader in my yoot - Yoot meaning all the way till I needed glasses, after which reading became a trouble. But early on, in my comparison of philosophies, I rather stumbled into Burke. What a gas. A philosophy for which there was not a single argument.
I have not changed with the wind, nor will I ever. My political outlook has not modified one iota since my early 20s - Because standards. Standards that apply across my entire life. The standard does not change, and will not change. And what a help it has been in my life to know and stand upon truth.
Republicans OTOH, have drifted far from what they claim. As Reagan once opined too, I didn't leave the Republicans. The Republicans left me. Here I am, right where I have always been.
And I can sure see you from here. Others, not so much :shrug: :whistle:
You can spew your bullshit all you want - You are wrong.
You can spew your bullshit all you want -
It almost sounds like she's talking bout Trump.
Actually, I'm following you with a mop, pail and disinfectant.
You're welcome.
It almost sounds like she's talking bout Trump.
Actually she is. She thinks knocking down RWR justifies Tumpy.
I'm old enough to remember when Trump...at the invitation of the Democrats in the (I think) House of Representatives invited Donald to testify against Reagan closing tax loopholes.
He compared Reagan to leaders in the USSR.
Not the mark of a true Conservative.
I'm old enough to remember when Trump...at the invitation of the Democrats in the (I think) House of Representatives invited Donald to testify against Reagan closing tax loopholes.
He compared Reagan to leaders in the USSR.
Not the mark of a true Conservative.
Me too... It is surprising how stealing a motto or two and making up a bunch of bumperstickers will impress some folks. Tumpy was AGAINST Reagan. And nothing much changed.
He wanted the federal tax rate to be pushing 50% with deductions primarily for real estate development... And that anything less was going to destroy the "economy"...
Definitely not a Conservative viewpoint.
@txradioguy @roamer_1
Orange is the new Conservative.
Just ask around...................
@HoustonSam
Politics is but a facet. And a poorly lit one at that. I have made more difference with these young folks than all that I ever did in the Republican fold.
@roamer_1
I hope I have done as well with the people I've had an opportunity to influence; only time will tell, and I'll never know one way or another this side of Glory.
The larger point is that Conservatism is not a political movement; it's much larger, and much more enduring, than that. And whatever happens politically, like Hank Jr's Country Boy, we ain't going away.
And that is high praise coming from you @HoustonSam , and an honor. :beer:
Tell that to John Kerry.You tell that to my Dad, who did not get one of his purple hearts because someone decided the tank round that wounded him and killed most of his squad in Korea came from an American Tank.
The honor in our friendship here, @roamer_1, is mine. I look forward to the day that we greet each other in person and I can learn your teaching in self-reliance.
Actually she is. She thinks knocking down RWR justifies Tumpy.
In decades of arguing with people in chatrooms, the worst to engage in conversations with has always been socialist-Communist wolves in sheep's clothing. There is no evidence that will convince them of their wrongness, even though its clearly apparent to all. They love engaging in disruption and trolling, walking the live of getting banned on many occasions. It's nothing new to me, i've been engaged in discussions with them for decades. They have no intentions of accepting or allowing any evidence of changing their minds about anything. They laugh at those that think they can. NEVERTRUMPERS FALL IN THIS CATEGORY, they fit the mold like a hand in a well worn glove. They have their job, and no one is going to convince them to not carry through.
(https://masur.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/trademarkpost_MakeAmericaGreatAgain_white-2.jpg)
You tell that to my Dad, who did not get one of his purple hearts because someone decided the tank round that wounded him and killed most of his squad in Korea came from an American Tank.
John Kerry isn't fit to shine Dad's shoes.
https://www.cmohs.org/recipients/robert-l-howard
The Americans stopped the coronation of the Drunken Harridan.
And more Americans voted for Donald Trump than any presidential candidate ever in history, including the current mindless occupant seated at the Resolute Desk.
And, no, the Americans aren't expecting any help from the self-proclaimed Principled Conservatives to restore America to it's glory. Principled Conservatives are neither.
It sure is interesting that when Trump criticized the R party establishment during the 2016 primaries for its ineffectiveness, and even refused to commit his support to the eventual R nominee during one of the candidate debates, he was held up by many as a visionary, transformative leader; when my friend @roamer_1 here criticizes the R party establishment, and Trump, for their ineffectiveness and refuses to commit his support to R party nominees, he is denounced as a democrat.
Trump's supporters spoke as one : they would no longer accept that failure to support the party essentially meant supporting the Ds. But by the eve of the 2016 general election they were telling the rest of us that failure to support Trump essentially meant supporting the Ds. And what do you know, we're still hearing the same argument now.
Why is it that Trump's self-glorifying pro-Trump/damn the R party stance was admirable, while roamer_1's objective pro-Conservativism/damn the R party stance isn't?
What a lot of these newcomers and n00bs to the Republican party don't seem to understand is that Conservatism isn't just a political philosophy...it's a way of life. It's a set of standards and values we apply to our every day life and how we interact with the world.pointing-up THIS! pointing-up
A philosophy will change and evolve over time...your standards and values generally do not.
Those of us that have taken on Conservatism as our way of live have changed very little in our political belief system since we embraced it.
You get that...I get that and a few others get that. But a lot of folks think Conservatism is whatever is popular at the time.
It just doesn't work that way.
But I was talking about Reagan @txradioguy Your cult leader understands this.Why would Conservatism (embracing a set of concepts, a worldview) be a "cult"?
@roamer_1Yep! Basic laws of behaviour, like laws of nature, don't go away.
I hope I have done as well with the people I've had an opportunity to influence; only time will tell, and I'll never know one way or another this side of Glory.
The larger point is that Conservatism is not a political movement; it's much larger, and much more enduring, than that. And whatever happens politically, like Hank Jr's Country Boy, we ain't going away.
SO WHAT? What has that to do with throwing Conservative factions under the bus?There's no point in arguing, @roamer_1. If you didn't catch on to what I was pointing to, you never will. :shrug:
And YOU are flat out wrong in this case my friend! That part of the Constitution that lays out how electors are to be selected is definitely a part of the Constitution and the SOLE purpose for having a SCOTUS in the first place is to enforce that constitution!Just catching up, Bigun. Of all the treasonous acts committed, the SC turning tail was the most heart wrenching. We know that many departments are comped, but to have one of three branches do this is horrid. So, so disappointing.
SCOTUS has a duty to hear such cases and they flat out shirked that duty on December 11, 2020! The republic is DEAD as a result!
@roamer_1
There's no point in arguing, @roamer_1. If you didn't catch on to what I was pointing to, you never will. :shrug:
That, and stop, just stop calling the perfidious louts "RINOs".
They are, in essence, the GOP. (Sorry, @Cyber Liberty, I know you are personally trying to change that, and there are other exceptions, but that is where the power lies.)
It is Conservatives who are the real Republicans in Name Only, because there is no other banner for conservatives to run under without being shoved completely off to the side in the false dichotomy of the "Two-Party System".
It is the "GOP Leaders" like McConnell, McStain, Romney, Ryan, Boehner, Bushes, and so forth who have managed to pull aside the football, time after time, who have managed to fall just short enough that the Democrats have managed to keep most of the ground they gained, if not add to it during "Republican" moments of power.
But Conservative?? **nononono*
Only in apparent comparison to the ever Leftist-sliding Democrat (now openly Socialist/Communist) Party, is the GOP "conservative", with that tenuous position of moral relativity ever giving ground to the SJWs and special interest groups EXCEPT those who support traditional (family) values and the Right to Life.
There are always enough of those cretins in Congress (and elsewhere) to abandon principle in favor of "bi-partisanship" to scuttle any attempt to gain conservative ground, and often to make sure the eventual agenda of those who advance ever toward totalitarianism and away from our Constitutional Republic is satisfied, in even the smallest yet ground breaking ways.
(For instance, for those who think the SCOTUS would readily rule against requiring a "vaccine" to exercise your Civil Rights, think again. The precedent is already established that you can be "taxed" for not buying health insurance. While less personally and biologically invasive than modifying your cellular chemistry with mRNA, it is not a far step that you could be penalized for not subjecting yourself to medical experimentation on a massive scale, be that penalty pecuniary or a loss of essential Civil Rights, "for the public good"--the latter phrase, one which has been stretched like taffy beyond sane limits, is much like the interstate commerce clause.)
It is these little bricks, the decisions, the failures of investigations to actually accomplish anything or hold any to account, the nibbles at the Bill of Rights, that in summation form the all too solid foundations in statute and precedent which will be used as the basis for the growing megastate, the totalitarian Global Order, and those who are supposed to be representing US are in the thick of it, representing (with rare exception) only themselves and the monied interests which ultimately they see as putting them in power, not the voters who gave that anointing a rubber stamp. And now, now with the absence of howling, shrieking and absolute hell-raising protest of the latest and most egregious election fraud/theft, the die is cast, and the voices of the voters don't mean one whit because the elections can be manipulated at will, the polls reported as whatever the made to order point spread will be (+/- 4 points) in the captive media, and all else censored by omission or deplatforming.
If that doesn't work, the powers that be have the option of (literally) coming after any or all of us for "domestic terrorism": because their goon squads can create an incident, anywhere, anytime, call 1-800 rent ariot"mostly peaceful protest".
Frankly, I'm with @roamer_1. In the past 4 years, the GOP failed to remove Obamacare. Failed to cut the budget, failed to produce a budget, went 20 trillion further in debt, and failed to codify measures which would ensure continued and increased border security. Walls are nice where they are, but you have to close the frigging gate. (It's like the switch was turned back on, here come the Obama caravans of "kids" again, likely headed to or already part of some human trafficking scheme.) What happened with Epstein/Maxwell's information? So much information and so many opportunities gone down the Memory Hole of "investigation".
Was it put in a digital Rolodex so the usual suspects have convenient sources of entertainment (Those are someone's kids, damn it!), What about the Burisma scandal? and Riots, real ones not some faux "insurrection" that did not even have a rope. A real "armed insurrection" wouldn't have to scrounge up fire extinguishers to not actually hit police over the head with (no video, in the Capitol!, of anyone being hit with one--or it would have been all over the news). Somehow, over 200 people ended up with charges against them for visiting the Capitol, and more are coming, but cities across America were burned (or protesters faced down by citizens with firearms in plain view to keep the peace) and where are the charges? Against a 17 year old who defended his own life? Against Homeowners defending themselves, their home, their neighbors from people who had torn down a metal gate to trespass as a mob? Against police who could not have killed the guy who was dying of a Fentanyl overdose, and not against those who have looted, burned, and murdered their way through the year leading up to the election.
Where in the Hell has the GOP been through all this? Whining impotently in the corner.
It isn't about Trump, one way or the other, really, it is that the GOP's utter failure to make anything but an EO policy, and even the allegedly conservative Justices added to the SCOTUS turned tail and hid under the nearest lawbook when the issue (seems pretty damned clear to me) of a primary jurisdiction case regarding election procedures in an national election, a question of violating (prima facie!) the Constitution arose, in an epic and historic display of the continued nonfeasance that has become the hallmark of the Party.
I have a hard time seeing what it is I am supposed to be fighting for when the Party which is supposed to be fighting for me appears to be fighting against me and the Constitution it is sworn to uphold. This is why the GOP lost control of the House, despite any boost it got from the POTUS, and excused as a typical midterm loss of seats. That has been the failure that keeps on failing.
IF we don't stand on principle...
IF we fail to make a hard line, carved in stone, not scratched in sand, we can expect conservatism, the Constitution, and the Republic to fall, and leading that charge against it will be some of the GOP, voted for to keep the greater evils from having the pole position in the vanguard.
It isn't about Trump, one way or the other, really, it is that the GOP's utter failure to make anything but an EO policy, and even the allegedly conservative Justices added to the SCOTUS turned tail and hid under the nearest lawbook when the issue (seems pretty damned clear to me) of a primary jurisdiction case regarding election procedures in an national election, a question of violating (prima facie!) the Constitution arose, in an epic and historic display of the continued nonfeasance that has become the hallmark of the Party.
I have a hard time seeing what it is I am supposed to be fighting for when the Party which is supposed to be fighting for me appears to be fighting against me and the Constitution it is sworn to uphold. This is why the GOP lost control of the House, despite any boost it got from the POTUS, and excused as a typical midterm loss of seats. That has been the failure that keeps on failing.
IF we don't stand on principle...
IF we fail to make a hard line, carved in stone, not scratched in sand, we can expect conservatism, the Constitution, and the Republic to fall, and leading that charge against it will be some of the GOP, voted for to keep the greater evils from having the pole position in the vanguard.
Great post @Smokin Joe
Well yes it is about Tumpy and it is about the Republicans. It's about both.
Dear Populists:
Populism does not work. Period. The problem with the populist position isn't even that it leans on whatever is popular at the time... Why it doesn't work is that it CANNOT build a machine. It doesn't know how. In fact, it's never had such a thought in its dizzy little head.
So OF COURSE it got waylaid. OF COURSE the Republican machine ground it up and spit it out. It was built of unicorn farts and wishes. No principles to stand upon, no gathering under a long held banner (other than trying to steal the Conservative one). No support at all inside of politics. Just the popular support of the people (which is an easy thing to sway). Y'all were no more than red meat.
And populism ALWAYS ENDS THUS. It can steal all the air from the room, sure... But not for long.
And the Republicans... After DECADES of indoctrinating the LIE that even a weak Republican was better than a Democrat, it has filled itself to brimming with everything BUT Conservatives. The Republican machine does not serve YOU. It serves the globalists. The very minute the Tump movement snuggled up to MurderTurtle and held hands, its doom was written. Not having principles to stand upon, and nothing more than memes to work for, the populist Tump movement, ignorant and all unawares, the Republican machine thwarted at every turn except the EO, PURPOSEFULLY containing the populist outburst in a 4 year cycle, knowing full well (even as I and others did) that the next presidential win would write the populists' epitaph, and every single thing they accomplished would be effectively overturned.
It is not that I am a seer that has informed me - It was entirely predictable.
You WILL NOT win trying to steal Democrats from the DNC.
You WILL NOT win relying on the Republican machine.
You WILL NOT win hijacking the Conservative banner.
You need a machine. You need operatives all through government.
The TEA party was/is a Conservative movement. It started SIX YEARS before its win - But when it won, BOY did it win. All of that planning, all of that building, all the way down to the county seats and many city councils - That is WHY it won. That is WHY even after it got run over (by the Republican moderates skillfully manipulating the idiotic Tump stampede) it STILL WON. Record turnover in state houses and governorships... And every current Conservative, even though but a handful, came from that movement.
Had it continued, there would be forty Conservatves in the House this time, and ten Conservatives in the senate... and the next election, 60 in the House and 15 in the Senate. and the one after that, 75 in the House, and control of the minority, and 20 in the Senate, and control of the minority.
THAT is how it is done. I stood fast for the TEA Party. Hell I STILL DO. Because even now it has more chance of success, of actually moving the ball, than the Tumpy movement ever will.
But I did not give Tumpy the time of day. Maybe y'all should wonder at the difference instead of getting all buttsore because I would not swear fealty to your prince.
** Anyway Smoke... Good post. I just had that wee difference to get out.
:beer: :seeya:
Well, @roamer_1 the way I see it Trump was as close to the TEA party movement as he possibly could be under the conditions he was operating. Yes! I would have loved to see him veto some spending bills but I also realize what would have been done to him if he had.
We are in a damned DEEP hole and, now that Trump has been removed, don't see any way to get out of it other than, in my case, TEXIT!
Why would Conservatism (embracing a set of concepts, a worldview) be a "cult"?
Especially when fealty to a populist candidate (even a fairly good populist candidate), even over principles, isn't?
Bottom line is that trillions of new debt, especially over the China Virus, signed off on, become his in the sense that Trump was the one with the ability to stop it. The POTUS always has the option to veto.
Well, @roamer_1 the way I see it Trump was as close to the TEA party movement as he possibly could be under the conditions he was operating. Yes! I would have loved to see him veto some spending bills but I also realize what would have been done to him if he had.
We are in a damned DEEP hole and, now that Trump has been removed, don't see any way to get out of it other than, in my case, TEXIT!
@Bigun
NONE of that matters. Not ONE single bit.
The ONLY things that are important are "Bad Orange Man is a Billionaire,and I hate him for it!
We iz da wurld.......,we iz de peons,..........,hoping to hang all the rich peep-pulls........."
Thinking Tumpy and his movement would pull us out of that was always a pipe dream. They hadn't the wherewithal nor the political will to do it. It was nothing more than populist candy from the front of the parade. And if you cannot see that even yet, you soon will
@roamer_1
You just keep telling yourself that,while preparing for the country to collapse because we can't see the "wisdom" you follow of just surrendering and looking for a hole to hide in.
Or maybe we could all just join forces and elect a Unicorn?
Yeah... Stolen slogans really prove the point. *****rollingeyes*****
That, and stop, just stop calling the perfidious louts "RINOs".
They are, in essence, the GOP. (Sorry, @Cyber Liberty, I know you are personally trying to change that, and there are other exceptions, but that is where the power lies.)
It is Conservatives who are the real Republicans in Name Only, because there is no other banner for conservatives to run under without being shoved completely off to the side in the false dichotomy of the "Two-Party System".
It is the "GOP Leaders" like McConnell, McStain, Romney, Ryan, Boehner, Bushes, and so forth who have managed to pull aside the football, time after time, who have managed to fall just short enough that the Democrats have managed to keep most of the ground they gained, if not add to it during "Republican" moments of power.
But Conservative?? **nononono*
Only in apparent comparison to the ever Leftist-sliding Democrat (now openly Socialist/Communist) Party, is the GOP "conservative", with that tenuous position of moral relativity ever giving ground to the SJWs and special interest groups EXCEPT those who support traditional (family) values and the Right to Life.
There are always enough of those cretins in Congress (and elsewhere) to abandon principle in favor of "bi-partisanship" to scuttle any attempt to gain conservative ground, and often to make sure the eventual agenda of those who advance ever toward totalitarianism and away from our Constitutional Republic is satisfied, in even the smallest yet ground breaking ways.
(For instance, for those who think the SCOTUS would readily rule against requiring a "vaccine" to exercise your Civil Rights, think again. The precedent is already established that you can be "taxed" for not buying health insurance. While less personally and biologically invasive than modifying your cellular chemistry with mRNA, it is not a far step that you could be penalized for not subjecting yourself to medical experimentation on a massive scale, be that penalty pecuniary or a loss of essential Civil Rights, "for the public good"--the latter phrase, one which has been stretched like taffy beyond sane limits, is much like the interstate commerce clause.)
It is these little bricks, the decisions, the failures of investigations to actually accomplish anything or hold any to account, the nibbles at the Bill of Rights, that in summation form the all too solid foundations in statute and precedent which will be used as the basis for the growing megastate, the totalitarian Global Order, and those who are supposed to be representing US are in the thick of it, representing (with rare exception) only themselves and the monied interests which ultimately they see as putting them in power, not the voters who gave that anointing a rubber stamp. And now, now with the absence of howling, shrieking and absolute hell-raising protest of the latest and most egregious election fraud/theft, the die is cast, and the voices of the voters don't mean one whit because the elections can be manipulated at will, the polls reported as whatever the made to order point spread will be (+/- 4 points) in the captive media, and all else censored by omission or deplatforming.
If that doesn't work, the powers that be have the option of (literally) coming after any or all of us for "domestic terrorism": because their goon squads can create an incident, anywhere, anytime, call 1-800 rent ariot"mostly peaceful protest".
Frankly, I'm with @roamer_1. In the past 4 years, the GOP failed to remove Obamacare. Failed to cut the budget, failed to produce a budget, went 20 trillion further in debt, and failed to codify measures which would ensure continued and increased border security. Walls are nice where they are, but you have to close the frigging gate. (It's like the switch was turned back on, here come the Obama caravans of "kids" again, likely headed to or already part of some human trafficking scheme.) What happened with Epstein/Maxwell's information? So much information and so many opportunities gone down the Memory Hole of "investigation".
Was it put in a digital Rolodex so the usual suspects have convenient sources of entertainment (Those are someone's kids, damn it!), What about the Burisma scandal? and Riots, real ones not some faux "insurrection" that did not even have a rope. A real "armed insurrection" wouldn't have to scrounge up fire extinguishers to not actually hit police over the head with (no video, in the Capitol!, of anyone being hit with one--or it would have been all over the news). Somehow, over 200 people ended up with charges against them for visiting the Capitol, and more are coming, but cities across America were burned (or protesters faced down by citizens with firearms in plain view to keep the peace) and where are the charges? Against a 17 year old who defended his own life? Against Homeowners defending themselves, their home, their neighbors from people who had torn down a metal gate to trespass as a mob? Against police who could not have killed the guy who was dying of a Fentanyl overdose, and not against those who have looted, burned, and murdered their way through the year leading up to the election.
Where in the Hell has the GOP been through all this? Whining impotently in the corner.
It isn't about Trump, one way or the other, really, it is that the GOP's utter failure to make anything but an EO policy, and even the allegedly conservative Justices added to the SCOTUS turned tail and hid under the nearest lawbook when the issue (seems pretty damned clear to me) of a primary jurisdiction case regarding election procedures in an national election, a question of violating (prima facie!) the Constitution arose, in an epic and historic display of the continued nonfeasance that has become the hallmark of the Party.
I have a hard time seeing what it is I am supposed to be fighting for when the Party which is supposed to be fighting for me appears to be fighting against me and the Constitution it is sworn to uphold. This is why the GOP lost control of the House, despite any boost it got from the POTUS, and excused as a typical midterm loss of seats. That has been the failure that keeps on failing.
IF we don't stand on principle...
IF we fail to make a hard line, carved in stone, not scratched in sand, we can expect conservatism, the Constitution, and the Republic to fall, and leading that charge against it will be some of the GOP, voted for to keep the greater evils from having the pole position in the vanguard.
Stolen?
Like the Rodents stole the last election?
Who was harmed by recycling an effective slogan, beside the Rodents and their fifth column of Principled Conservatives?
You just unhappy that the Rodents aren't going to recycle "Senility For Strength" next time, they're going to go with "Sluts for Socialism"?
That, and stop, just stop calling the perfidious louts "RINOs".
They are, in essence, the GOP. (Sorry, @Cyber Liberty, I know you are personally trying to change that, and there are other exceptions, but that is where the power lies.)
It is Conservatives who are the real Republicans in Name Only, because there is no other banner for conservatives to run under without being shoved completely off to the side in the false dichotomy of the "Two-Party System".
Nah... Nothing like that. Just that stealing slogans ain't the same as doing them.
Conservatives are another subset of the GOP, the largest such and the most poorly defined.
Why would Conservatism (embracing a set of concepts, a worldview) be a "cult"?
Bottom line is that trillions of new debt, especially over the China Virus, signed off on, become his in the sense that Trump was the one with the ability to stop it. The POTUS always has the option to veto.
Yep! Basic laws of behaviour, like laws of nature, don't go away.
The same things that work and have worked in cultures and societies which practiced them will continue to work.
It is those which do not, no matter who practices them, which cannot endure.
Every civilization which has been in defiance of that has failed or is in the process of failing.
And it does not matter who does or doesn't do that, any more than desire can overcome the law of gravity.
Yeah... Stolen slogans really prove the point. *****rollingeyes*****
Just catching up, Bigun. Of all the treasonous acts committed, the SC turning tail was the most heart wrenching. We know that many departments are comped, but to have one of three branches do this is horrid. So, so disappointing.
Oh.
Since NOTHING that Reagan did survived, I guess he was nothing, too, right?
Trump was making America great again. The disgusting RINO Principled Conservative traitors hated the idea and fought him every step of the way. They wanted Jeb! to give Hillary the please clap, or something like that.
That, and stop, just stop calling the perfidious louts "RINOs".
They are, in essence, the GOP. (Sorry, @Cyber Liberty, I know you are personally trying to change that, and there are other exceptions, but that is where the power lies.)
It is Conservatives who are the real Republicans in Name Only, because there is no other banner for conservatives to run under without being shoved completely off to the side in the false dichotomy of the "Two-Party System".
It is the "GOP Leaders" like McConnell, McStain, Romney, Ryan, Boehner, Bushes, and so forth who have managed to pull aside the football, time after time, who have managed to fall just short enough that the Democrats have managed to keep most of the ground they gained, if not add to it during "Republican" moments of power.
But Conservative?? **nononono*
Only in apparent comparison to the ever Leftist-sliding Democrat (now openly Socialist/Communist) Party, is the GOP "conservative", with that tenuous position of moral relativity ever giving ground to the SJWs and special interest groups EXCEPT those who support traditional (family) values and the Right to Life.
There are always enough of those cretins in Congress (and elsewhere) to abandon principle in favor of "bi-partisanship" to scuttle any attempt to gain conservative ground, and often to make sure the eventual agenda of those who advance ever toward totalitarianism and away from our Constitutional Republic is satisfied, in even the smallest yet ground breaking ways.
(For instance, for those who think the SCOTUS would readily rule against requiring a "vaccine" to exercise your Civil Rights, think again. The precedent is already established that you can be "taxed" for not buying health insurance. While less personally and biologically invasive than modifying your cellular chemistry with mRNA, it is not a far step that you could be penalized for not subjecting yourself to medical experimentation on a massive scale, be that penalty pecuniary or a loss of essential Civil Rights, "for the public good"--the latter phrase, one which has been stretched like taffy beyond sane limits, is much like the interstate commerce clause.)
It is these little bricks, the decisions, the failures of investigations to actually accomplish anything or hold any to account, the nibbles at the Bill of Rights, that in summation form the all too solid foundations in statute and precedent which will be used as the basis for the growing megastate, the totalitarian Global Order, and those who are supposed to be representing US are in the thick of it, representing (with rare exception) only themselves and the monied interests which ultimately they see as putting them in power, not the voters who gave that anointing a rubber stamp. And now, now with the absence of howling, shrieking and absolute hell-raising protest of the latest and most egregious election fraud/theft, the die is cast, and the voices of the voters don't mean one whit because the elections can be manipulated at will, the polls reported as whatever the made to order point spread will be (+/- 4 points) in the captive media, and all else censored by omission or deplatforming.
If that doesn't work, the powers that be have the option of (literally) coming after any or all of us for "domestic terrorism": because their goon squads can create an incident, anywhere, anytime, call 1-800 rent ariot"mostly peaceful protest".
Frankly, I'm with @roamer_1. In the past 4 years, the GOP failed to remove Obamacare. Failed to cut the budget, failed to produce a budget, went 20 trillion further in debt, and failed to codify measures which would ensure continued and increased border security. Walls are nice where they are, but you have to close the frigging gate. (It's like the switch was turned back on, here come the Obama caravans of "kids" again, likely headed to or already part of some human trafficking scheme.) What happened with Epstein/Maxwell's information? So much information and so many opportunities gone down the Memory Hole of "investigation".
Was it put in a digital Rolodex so the usual suspects have convenient sources of entertainment (Those are someone's kids, damn it!), What about the Burisma scandal? and Riots, real ones not some faux "insurrection" that did not even have a rope. A real "armed insurrection" wouldn't have to scrounge up fire extinguishers to not actually hit police over the head with (no video, in the Capitol!, of anyone being hit with one--or it would have been all over the news). Somehow, over 200 people ended up with charges against them for visiting the Capitol, and more are coming, but cities across America were burned (or protesters faced down by citizens with firearms in plain view to keep the peace) and where are the charges? Against a 17 year old who defended his own life? Against Homeowners defending themselves, their home, their neighbors from people who had torn down a metal gate to trespass as a mob? Against police who could not have killed the guy who was dying of a Fentanyl overdose, and not against those who have looted, burned, and murdered their way through the year leading up to the election.
Where in the Hell has the GOP been through all this? Whining impotently in the corner.
It isn't about Trump, one way or the other, really, it is that the GOP's utter failure to make anything but an EO policy, and even the allegedly conservative Justices added to the SCOTUS turned tail and hid under the nearest lawbook when the issue (seems pretty damned clear to me) of a primary jurisdiction case regarding election procedures in an national election, a question of violating (prima facie!) the Constitution arose, in an epic and historic display of the continued nonfeasance that has become the hallmark of the Party.
I have a hard time seeing what it is I am supposed to be fighting for when the Party which is supposed to be fighting for me appears to be fighting against me and the Constitution it is sworn to uphold. This is why the GOP lost control of the House, despite any boost it got from the POTUS, and excused as a typical midterm loss of seats. That has been the failure that keeps on failing.
IF we don't stand on principle...
IF we fail to make a hard line, carved in stone, not scratched in sand, we can expect conservatism, the Constitution, and the Republic to fall, and leading that charge against it will be some of the GOP, voted for to keep the greater evils from having the pole position in the vanguard.
The Tump movement was a caricature, all the way along. It LOOKED like the TEA party, but had no political depth at all. It is no accident that most of the new TEA party people got sucked out into the ether through Tumpys whirring revolving administration door... Zinke, the only one I worked for was one of them. Dept of Interior, fine. But ZERO promises kept. And that ain't from Zinke. He'd do if he could.
The DEEP STATE boogeyman turned out to be MurderTurtle. Who'da thunk it. Well, other than me... And probably you... And a few others.
I am not disheartened. I expected this end. I seen it coming the whole way along. But all that TEA Party mechanism is still there - Still in place. All that is needed is to pick that back up and continue. Getting that through Populists fool heads is the problem.
@Smokin Joe
Which would have been nothing more than a fart in a hurricane. A "political pose for the mindless goobers". He can veto,and congress can override the veto,while screaming the whole time about how "the Presidents treasonous veto is starving the wimmins and the chillruns to death as well as making the wurld mo dangerous fo murikans!
It would be like a Christmas gift to the left,weaken his presidency,and not gain him or the Republic,one single damn positive thing.
This is about winning,not posing.
NO President can get away with that unless they have partisan control over Congress,or at least a tie,as well as a compliant media.
The sad,sad truth is that today the media is the most powerful branch of goobermint,and they are nothing less than a tool of the internationalists.
@Bigun
NONE of that matters. Not ONE single bit.
The ONLY things that are important are "Bad Orange Man is a Billionaire,and I hate him for it!
We iz da wurld.......,we iz de peons,..........,hoping to hang all the rich peep-pulls........."
If Reagan had thought his veto of bills could have been politically effective, he would have done so.
Well, what really bugged the Swamp denizens is that "Orangeman" was threatening their playground!
There are more Conservatives OUTSIDE the Republican party than in it. Been that way for a long time. Look it up.
Fixed it for you @Sled Dog
You just don't get it. For some unknown reason you refuse to understand that conservatism is not a group of lofty, intractable principles that only a chosen few comprehend and fight for @roamer_1 You insist it is something so special, so separate, so unique that only a handful grasp its magnificence.:thumbsup: ‘nuff said.
For a large swath of American citizens, cutting across every region, every economic bracket, every color, every creed "conservatism" is intrinsic because it is the essence of the American spirit. We don't need some smartass political preacher man telling us what it is, how we're bleeping it up or how we should respond to it.
When it comes to politics conservatism is like porn; Americans know it when they see it.
"Make America Great Again" is conservatism. Donald Trump further distilled it to its essence: "America First". "Make America Great Again" IS a slogan. "America First" is courageous --- and from the gut.
For all you principled conservative preacher men out there who keep insisting Donald Trump had no principles --- stop talking long enough to understand that Donald Trump was the single most principled conservative ever to grace the Oval Office. Everything, bleeping everything this man did promoted and strengthened America First, from: freedom of speech to freedom of religion to freedom of economic security; fair trade deals, secure sovereign borders, the right to life, peace through strength, to we worship God not government and America will never be a socialist nation. THESE are conservative principles.
Had Ronald Reagan followed Donald Trump into the Oval Office you know damn well he would have left untouched: Trump's EOs and international agreements on immigration, NATO's fair share, the end of the Paris Accords, the end of the Iran Deal, the Abraham Accords, the Kosovo-Serbia economic agreement, a defunded Planned Parenthood, a rebuilt military, our energy independence, financial support for colleges with freedom of speech policies, medical right to try, the tax plan, the removal of regulations, the China strategy, and his belief that Americans built this country, in spite of their government; and they own it, not the swamp.
Had Ronald Reagan followed Donald Trump into the Oval Office he would have known he had awfully large shoes to fill.
Remind me how many times Reagan shut the government down to get what he wanted?
You clearly haven't studied Reagan or his Presidency.
You just don't get it. For some unknown reason you refuse to understand that conservatism is not a group of lofty, intractable principles that only a chosen few comprehend and fight for @roamer_1 You insist it is something so special, so separate, so unique that only a handful grasp its magnificence.
For a large swath of American citizens, cutting across every region, every economic bracket, every color, every creed "conservatism" is intrinsic because it is the essence of the American spirit. We don't need some smartass political preacher man telling us what it is, how we're bleeping it up or how we should respond to it.
When it comes to politics conservatism is like porn; Americans know it when they see it.
"Make America Great Again" is conservatism. Donald Trump further distilled it to its essence: "America First". "Make America Great Again" IS a slogan. "America First" is courageous --- and from the gut.
For all you principled conservative preacher men out there who keep insisting Donald Trump had no principles --- stop talking long enough to understand that Donald Trump was the single most principled conservative ever to grace the Oval Office. Everything, bleeping everything this man did promoted and strengthened America First, from: freedom of speech to freedom of religion to freedom of economic security; fair trade deals, secure sovereign borders, the right to life, peace through strength, to we worship God not government and America will never be a socialist nation. THESE are conservative principles.
Had Ronald Reagan followed Donald Trump into the Oval Office you know damn well he would have left untouched: Trump's EOs and international agreements on immigration, NATO's fair share, the end of the Paris Accords, the end of the Iran Deal, the Abraham Accords, the Kosovo-Serbia economic agreement, a defunded Planned Parenthood, a rebuilt military, financial support for colleges with freedom of speech policies, medical right to try, the tax plan, the removal of regulations, the China strategy, and his belief that Americans built this country, in spite of their government; and they own it, not the swamp.
Had Ronald Reagan followed Donald Trump into the Oval Office he would have known he had awfully large shoes to fill.
Wasn't broken.
You let me use my imagery my way and if other people are too stupid to figure it out, they can either ask me or suffer in Principled Silence.
Actually, there were a few temporary shutdowns, just like in every president since. The Rodents only started making a big deal about "shutdowns" when the Illegal Alien From Kenya was having hissy fits and had near total control of the media.
Study the Reagan era some more.
https://www.history.com/news/ronald-reagan-government-shutdown-reasons
A pretty good post (as usual), with the exception of my task likely being futile... yymouse
Oh I dunno... I would vote for you in a minute... And that's saying something. :beer:
Hmmmph.
And who did the TEA Party elect? Besides a couple of cranks?
What did they accomplish?
Why did they not accomplish ANYTHING.
Because they were infiltrated by both Rodents in their RINO disguise, they were destroyed as an effective political unit. so they're okay because they became "Principled".
The Rodents couldn't infiltrate Trump, Trump was one man.
I'm the most conservative person YOU know.
If there's a conservative somewhere and they didn't vote for Trump, they're not conservatives. They're useless. They have Principles and no honor.
Oh.QuoteSince NOTHING that Reagan did survived, I guess he was nothing, too, right?
@Sled Dog
Just to be clear to those whose minds are closed,NOTHING other than the US Constitution is supposed to be carved in stone in America. The idea was to have the maximum amount of personal freedoms,while maintaining a legal code that defends the rights of the defenseless.
If WE allow this to mean we lose all our freedoms to a dominant left because WE,THE PEOPLE,failed in our duty to protect them.
Neither we nor anyone else can have it both ways. We are either a free people,or we are slaves to the state. Free people change bad laws and enact new laws that protect and enhance our freedoms. Slaves and trolls to the state want the state to have all the power so they,being the parasites they are,can share that power.QuoteTrump was making America great again.
Yes,he was,and the truth is he had made more moves to return America to a free nation than any President in my lifetime.
QuoteThe disgusting RINO Principled Conservative traitors hated the idea and fought him every step of the way.
That's because they rely on the corruption to butter their own bread,and don't give a damn about anyone else OR the future of our nation. It's all about "Me,me,ME,DAMMIT!" to them.
In reply, rather than fighting even more, I would invite you to take a sabbatical and pick up three authors and actually read them. Locke, Kirk, and Burke. - That is not the whole of it, by any means, But it IS enough to allow you to understand the things you are feigning to understand.
There is not a Conservative I have ever met that is not conversant with at least ONE of them, and I dare to say that the most Conservative on this board have gladly read them all.
:thumbsup: ‘nuff said.
Conservatism in politics is like porn @roamer_1 and Americans know it when they see it --- it is intrinsic to a successful life.
Sorry, it's just not as special and complicated as you want it to be. But, you and your pals can keep the book club going, we'll win the elections and the right to govern. This is, after all, the goal of politics. wink777
Conservatism in politics is like porn @roamer_1 and Americans know it when they see it --- it is intrinsic to a successful life.
Sorry, it's just not as special and complicated as you want it to be. But, you and your pals can keep the book club going, we'll win the elections and the right to govern. This is, after all, the goal of politics. wink777
Conservatism in politics is like porn @roamer_1 and Americans know it when they see it --- it is intrinsic to a successful life.
Sorry, it's just not as special and complicated as you want it to be. But, you and your pals can keep the book club going, we'll win the elections and the right to govern. This is, after all, the goal of politics. wink777
Yes! it was!
I will point out errors where they occur. Always have and always will. TRUMP was a threat to business as usual in Washington and was going to be gotten rid of no matter what it took to do it. There is only one party inside the beltway and that is the ""how do we fleece the sheep today" party!
I studied the man and followed the news in real time during his Presidency. And before that his challenge to Ford in 1976. I don’t need a skewed account from an MSM owned website to tell me what I saw and read about with my own two eyes.
I studied the man and followed the news in real time during his Presidency. And before that his challenge to Ford in 1976.
LOL...And what you are doing is causing the country to circle the drain... All you want to argue about is how fast... As well evidenced over the last several decades...
You just don't get it. For some unknown reason you refuse to understand that conservatism is not a group of lofty, intractable principles that only a chosen few comprehend and fight for @roamer_1 You insist it is something so special, so separate, so unique that only a handful grasp its magnificence.
For a large swath of American citizens, cutting across every region, every economic bracket, every color, every creed "conservatism" is intrinsic because it is the essence of the American spirit. We don't need some smartass political preacher man telling us what it is, how we're bleeping it up or how we should respond to it.
When it comes to politics, conservatism is like porn; Americans know it when they see it.
"Make America Great Again" is conservatism. Donald Trump further distilled it to its essence: "America First". "Make America Great Again" IS a slogan. "America First" is courageous --- and from the gut.
For all you principled conservative preacher men out there who keep insisting Donald Trump had no principles --- stop talking long enough to understand that Donald Trump was the single most principled conservative ever to grace the Oval Office. Everything, bleeping everything this man did promoted and strengthened America First, from: freedom of speech to freedom of religion to freedom of economic security; fair trade deals, secure sovereign borders, the right to life, peace through strength, to we worship God not government and America will never be a socialist nation. THESE are conservative principles.
Had Ronald Reagan followed Donald Trump into the Oval Office you know damn well he would have left untouched: Trump's EOs and international agreements on immigration, NATO's fair share, the end of the Paris Accords, the end of the Iran Deal, the Abraham Accords, the Kosovo-Serbia economic agreement, a defunded Planned Parenthood, a rebuilt military, our energy independence, financial support for colleges with freedom of speech policies, medical right to try, the tax plan, the removal of regulations, the China strategy, and his belief that Americans built this country, in spite of their government; and they own it, not the swamp.
Had Ronald Reagan followed Donald Trump into the Oval Office he would have known he had awfully large shoes to fill.
So... record breaking overturning of county and state houses and governorships was no accomplishment?
Ditto. I distinctly remember watching the '76 GOP Convention at the ripe age of 12 (yes, I was a weird kid), hoping against all hope that Reagan would somehow be nominated. But the Establishment carried the day. The Paul Manaforts of the day got their way, and Gerald Ford was nominated. Now don't get me wrong. Ford was actually a damn fine President. But after Reagan gave his Convention speech after the vote, every person in that hall realized only then that they had nominated the wrong person.
What, all those delegate forgot all about the WIN buttons?
Fair Warning!
This thread will be locked after 1,000 Replies.
Let me help the cause...
Fair Warning!
This thread will be locked after 1,000 Replies.
Fair Warning!heres another step towards perdition
This thread will be locked after 1,000 Replies.
Ford did whip inflation. It was down to 4.8% when he left office. Look where it was four years later.
Oh.
Then you already knew, as I did, that Reagan caused eight shutdowns during his presidency and your implication that there was none is wrong.
Very good. I always enjoy talking to students. They have so much to learn.
@Right_in_Virginia @roamer_1
Locke and the other theorists are dreamers,dreaming of an ideal world. They live in Ivory Towers,or in more modern times,in log cabins hidden in the woods,and dream their little dreams while patting themselves on the back to congratulate themselves for their purity.
The rest of us are mere humans,who have to live in the best POSSIBLE world. Dreamers dream,and people rooted in reality make the changes. We actually live in the REAL world,not the dream world.
We understand that perfection is the ultimate goal,but we live in the "right now" and want to make today a better and safer place for us all to live while we ponder and work towards a perfect world.
Nobody has ever accomplished a single damn thing by sitting on their asses and dreaming,other than getting hemorrhoids and screaming at the people who ARE working towards making changes that they are sell-outs and "not REAL conservatives,because REAL conservatives would rather live in a cave in the mountains and eat mice droppings than to actually do the work necessary to accomplish something.
I never implied that. Your reading comprehension needs...work.
And from some of your arrogant uninformed babble just in this thread...you sound like you need to talk to "students" a little more...you could learn things from them.
Now for extra credit...tell the class WHY Reagan was willing to shut the government down 8 times.
Bah @sneakypete ... Y'all live in the 'Not Right Now'... Forever chasing after shiny sh*t and forgoing the truth. But that's alright... Y'all have your way. It's coming whether you see it or not.
As for change - You've made *none* ... Your entire diatribe is for naught, because you come from *no* success, all of it gone, and at a tremendous expense. All your high words are dashed to pieces. As predicted, by the way.
So. Since nobody ever accomplishes anything in life, since everything is always erased by those who come after, shouldn't everyone just drink the Kool-Aid and surrender, like the Principled Conservatives have done?
So. Since nobody ever accomplishes anything in life, since everything is always erased by those who come after, shouldn't everyone just drink the Kool-Aid and surrender, like the Principled Conservatives have done?
For the record, I fully support everything that @roamer_1 has said. The surrender monkeys are the ones here decrying that Conservatism can't work, so we have to repackage moderation, compromise, and political cowardice as the new 'conservative' label.
No, they are not.Define "Real Americans". I have to work tonight, but for extra credit, show me how the current GOP at the national level is doing one damned thing for that group.
The GOP is the entirety of the party membership, just like the Rodents are the entire set of filthy disgusting self-proclaimed elitist greedy pigs AND the morons that vote for them AND the moronic Never Trumping Traitors.
RINO is a designation of the subset of Republicans (the GOP) who are disgusting traitors.
Conservatives are another subset of the GOP, the largest such and the most poorly defined.
There's even RINO Rodent jackasses claiming to be "Principled Conservatives" who are just the disgusting RINO pigs showing up at the library to host Drag Queen Story Hour. Real Americans want nothing to do with them.
Ummm.....sorry that I have to ask, but the judicial branch betrayed the Constitution, aye.I agree with all you said. Yes, Congressional betrayal is bad, but expected. They've let us down more times than I can count.
The Congress betrayed the Constitution the same way.
And the executive branch, in the form of Pence refusing to question the integrity of the electors, also failed.
Which of the three branches did not violate the Constitution regarding Trump's electoral win last year?
I agree with all you said. Yes, Congressional betrayal is bad, but expected. They've let us down more times than I can count.
It's just that the last chance to save what has been gained rested on the SC. That is now gone. It's a bitter pill to swallow.
There are now only 3 options: military or CW2, and surrender. The last is not an option imho.
I agree with all you said. Yes, Congressional betrayal is bad, but expected. They've let us down more times than I can count.
It's just that the last chance to save what has been gained rested on the SC. That is now gone. It's a bitter pill to swallow.
There are now only 3 options: military or CW2, and surrender. The last is not an option imho.