Author Topic: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict  (Read 64785 times)

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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #225 on: May 29, 2024, 11:15:53 am »
2 min(s) ago
Judge details to jury each action prosecutors must be required to prove in order find Trump guilty

Judge Juan Merchan told the jury that in order to find the defendant guilty, the prosecutors are required to prove:

1. On or about Feb. 14, 2017, fromer president Donald Trump personally made or caused a false entry in business enterprise, specifically invoice from his ex-lawyer Michael Cohen

2. Trump did so with intent to commit another crime or intent to conceal another crime. That leaves 33 remaining counts – each for falsifying business records.  The only difference is different business record or date. The jury can ask to repeat the law in its entirely as many times.

2nd count relates to voucher kept or remained by the Trump Organization. 3rd count relates to voucher kept or remained by Trump Org.

--4th is check

--5th – invoice from Cohen from March 2017

--6th – entry in general ledger for DJT Trust bearing voucher

--7th – check #000147

--8th – invoice from Cohen April 13, 2017

--9th - entry in general ledger for DJT

--10th – check from June 2017

--11th - invoice from Cohen from May 2017

--12th – entry in general ledger for Trump in May 2017

--13th – Check

--14th – invoice from Cohen

--15th – June general ledge entry

--16th – check & check stub from June 2017

--17th count invoice from Micahel Cohen

--18th entry from general ledger

--19th pertains to Donald J. Trump check and check stub

-- 20th count invoice from Michael Cohen

-- 21st count ledger entry for Donald J Trump

-- 22nd count pertains to check

-- 23rd count pertains to voice related to Cohen

-- 24th count entry in general ledger for Trump

-- 25th count check and check stub

-- 26th count invoice from Cohen

-- 27th count

-- 28th count check and check stub

-- 29th invoice from Michael Cohen

-- 30th count entry in general ledger of Trump

-- 31st count check and check stub

-- 32nd count invoice from Cohen

-- 33rd count entry in general ledger for Trump

-- 34th count also falsifying business records in the first degree, check

Fox News' Maria Paronich contributed to this update.
Posted by Brianna Herlihy
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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #226 on: May 29, 2024, 11:27:51 am »
Quote
Andrew H. Giuliani
@AndrewHGiuliani
·
1m
Merchan tells the jury they will deliberate today until 4:30pm, on other days they may work later but it won’t be later than 6pm.

The “Honorable Judge” is done with his instructions and he asks the lawyers to approach his bench.

Quote
Andrew H. Giuliani
@AndrewHGiuliani
Merchan explains more rules to the jury:

“While you are here in the courthouse, you may not leave the jury room during deliberations.”

The “Honorable Judge” continues: No cell phones, don’t discuss the case outside the jury room, no talking about the case with a court officer, the jury must communicate with the judge by writing so as to avoid misunderstandings.

Quote
Andrew H. Giuliani
@AndrewHGiuliani
Merchan now waxing poetically about motive: “Let me now explain motive and the difference between motive and intent.”

The “Honorable Judge” has a silky smooth voice, he reminds me of a radio disk jockey on a smooth jazz station. (To all those radio disk jockey’s on smooth jazz stations, this is not a comparison of principle…I’m sure you have more).

Quote
Andrew H. Giuliani
@AndrewHGiuliani
·
14m
Merchan back on Violating Tax Laws.

The “Honorable Judge” says it is unlawful to file false tax returns, even if it does not result in underpayment of taxes.
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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #227 on: May 29, 2024, 11:30:19 am »
Lydia Hu inside court: Jury instruction makes key Cohen testimony 'very important'

Merchan instructed jury on knowledge of a conspiracy. He said, mere knowledge of a conspiracy does not make defendant a co-conspirator. Prosecutors must prove intent. Also, being present with others when they form a conspiracy does not mean that the defendant is a part of the conspiracy.

This instruction makes the Cohen’s testimony about calling Trump to advise of Stormy NDA issues, including the phone call to Schiller/Trump in Oct 2016, very important. If juror believes Cohen was advising Trump specifically of the NDA, getting approval and “sign off” from Trump to set up the bank account and LLC, the juror could maybe find intent on behalf of Trump.

Otherwise, evidence shows Trump was present at the 2015 Trump tower meeting with Pecker and Cohen when Pecker says he would be “eyes and ears” and Trump was a part of the TT meeting with Allen Weisselberg and Cohen as they talked about the $420,000 payments; in both cases, perhaps a juror could conclude Trump was present without taking action, so had no intent.

This illustrates why Blanche made a big production in court to cast doubt on Cohen’s version of the October 2016 call, that perhaps it was about prank calls not about Stormy at all. If he’s lying about that phone call, is he lying about them all?

-- Lydia Hu, Fox Business Network correspondent
Posted by Brianna Herlihy


Quote
2 min(s) ago
Jonathan Turley inside the court: Resurrecting dead misdemeanor 'so circular as to produce vertigo'

So a dead misdemeanor for falsifying business records was zapped back into life by alleging that under NY election law 17-152 it was done to influence the election by the unlawful means of falsification of business records. It is so circular as to produce vertigo. So the jury finds some documents were falsified to use the unlawful means of falsifying other documents. That is only one of three possible crimes and the jury does not have to agree on which was the basis for their conviction.

-- Jonathan Turley, constitutional law attorney and FNC contributor
Posted by Michael Lee

Quote
5 min(s) ago
Cohen’s guilty plea is ‘inadmissible evidence’ against Trump: Andy McCarthy

Fox News contributor Andy McCarthy joins ‘America’s Newsroom’ with analysis on the N.Y. v. Trump trial ahead of jury deliberations.
Posted by Michael Lee

Quote
10 min(s) ago
Jonathan Turley inside court: Absence of a witness on media practices 'more and more significant'

The absence of a witness on media practices is becoming more and more significant. Such a witness could have discussed how stories are often killed or planted by campaigns in light of the press exception for common practices by the media. Instead, the prosecutor was allowed to state as a fact what the common practices of the media are in a campaign.

-- Jonathan Turley, constitutional law attorney and FNC contributor
Posted by Brianna Herlihy
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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #228 on: May 29, 2024, 11:31:07 am »
a minute ago
Jury begins deliberating in Trump hush money trial

"I'm going to ask you to step out and begin your deliberations," the judge says, as jurors are excused from the room.

The six alternate jurors are asked to step to the side by the judge.




3 minutes ago
Judge finishes jury instructions
By Kyle Schnitzer

"That concludes my instructions on the law, counsel please approach," Justice Merchan says.
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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #229 on: May 29, 2024, 11:32:36 am »
Is the verdict in yet?

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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #230 on: May 29, 2024, 11:32:45 am »
Quote
Andrew H. Giuliani
@AndrewHGiuliani
·
3m
The jury of Manhattanites have been dismissed from the courtroom to begin deliberations on the innocence or guilt of the leading candidate for President of the United States and the 45th President of the United States, Donald J. Trump.

Quote
Andrew H. Giuliani
@AndrewHGiuliani
Merchan has asked the 6 alternate jurors to step aside while the 12 primary jurors goes back to deliberate.

The “Honorable Judge” is not excusing them yet, because he says he may need them throughout the process. They will be sequestered in a different area from the 12 primary jurors.
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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #231 on: May 29, 2024, 11:34:51 am »
And it's a wrap ....

Quote
John Roberts
@johnrobertsFox

Judge Merchan just told the jury that they do not need unanimity to convict. 4 could agree on one crime, 4 on a different one, and the other 4 on another. He said he would treat 4-4-4 as a unanimous verdict.


10:52 AM · May 29, 2024

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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #232 on: May 29, 2024, 11:36:33 am »
Is the verdict in yet?

LOL...any second now..
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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #233 on: May 29, 2024, 11:37:36 am »
NYP

3 minutes ago
To convict, jurors must agree that Trump 'conspired' to influence 2016 election with by 'unlawful means'- but don't need to agree on what those 'unlawful means' are

To convict, jurors must unanimously decide that Trump falsified business records with the "intent" to cover up the hush money payout to Cohen, and that the hush money was part of an illegal "conspiracy" to elect Trump in 2016 by what's called "unlawful means," the judge said.

But panelists can take a choose-your-own adventure path to deciding what those "unlawful means" are.

Per the judge, jurors can consider whether the hush money payouts to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal breached campaign finance laws, were tax fraud, or whether business records were themselves falsified during that process -- for example, whether Cohen fudged records to create his shell companies that he used for the payoffs.

But they don't have to agree on what those "unlawful means" are.
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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #234 on: May 29, 2024, 11:38:38 am »
Fox

6 min(s) ago
Jury dismissed to begin deliberations

Jury instructions concluded Wednesdsay morning and the jury was dismissed to start deliberations in the unprecedented case against former President Donald Trump -- N.Y. v Trump.

Before the jury was dismissed, both parties held a sidebar with Judge Juan Merchan.

If the jury has a question on law, they will send a note asking to review. The first juror selected is foreperson. Foreperson does not need to the write note or even agree. The foreperson will read the verdict for each of charged accounts.  Jurors will then be polled. Jurors will be given verdict sheet.

The jury may not leave jury room during deliberations.  Lunch will be provided and they must give cell phones to a court officer.  The jury can only deliberate when all gathered together in jury room.

Must discuss case only among selves, no one else, not even court officer.

If they have questions, they will write note to judge.

The plan today is to work until 4:30. The judge is not permitted to have conversations on facts of the case.  No juror can say the vote of any count.

Fox News' Maria Paronich contributed to this update.
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Offline libertybele

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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #235 on: May 29, 2024, 11:39:28 am »
LOL...any second now..

Exactly.  I think most made up their minds a long time ago and the jurors just want this drawn out circus to be over.

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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #236 on: May 29, 2024, 11:39:32 am »
Listening to all of these instructions I would think would become overwhelming or redundant to the jurors.  Sigh.  I can't help but wonder how many have already made up their minds.

As tin foil as it might sound, there's a part of me that believes that the jury pool was "pre-selected" weeks or months earlier.

Think about it...  every other aspect of this thing has been slanted and rigged.
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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #237 on: May 29, 2024, 11:41:13 am »
I find it very odd that the Jurors won't get a copy of the Judge's instructions.  That makes no sense to me at all.
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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #238 on: May 29, 2024, 11:41:26 am »
As tin foil as it might sound, there's a part of me that believes that the jury pool was "pre-selected" weeks or months earlier.

Think about it...  every other aspect of this thing has been slanted and rigged.

Quite possibly -- and that has entered my mind as well.

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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #239 on: May 29, 2024, 11:41:58 am »
I find it very odd that the Jurors won't get a copy of the Judge's instructions.  That makes no sense to me at all.

No it doesn't make sense -- I was thinking the same thing.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2024, 11:42:47 am by libertybele »

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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #240 on: May 29, 2024, 11:45:01 am »
Report: One Juror Appears Sympathetic to Donald Trump

Wendell Husebø 29 May 2024

One juror who sat for six weeks listening to the evidence presented in a Manhattan courtroom against former President Donald Trump reportedly appears sympathetic towards him.

The jury on Wednesday will begin to consider whether or not Trump, beyond a reasonable doubt,  committed a crime of falsifying records to conceal a second crime. Many legal experts believe there is no good case against Trump.

Some legal experts, such as constitutional scholar Jonathan Turley, expect the jury will either render a guilty verdict or produce a hung jury that results in a mistrial.

The prospects of a hung jury could be based on a report of one juror who made “friendly eye contact with Trump from time to time as the jury enters the room and walks right past the defense table.”

Marc Caputo wrote in the Bulwark:

    “There are eight people on that jury who definitely hate Trump. If there’s one person who doesn’t, it’s [this] juror,” said one court attendee who, like others for this story, relayed their observations on condition of anonymity to The Bulwark, which is also protecting the privacy and safety of the juror in question by not disclosing identifying details.

    As the trial has progressed since April 15, these sources relate, this juror has appeared to nod along in seeming accordance with the defense at times. On other occasions, the juror has seemingly reacted favorably to and made eye contact with Trump’s congressional surrogates who began joining him in court in recent weeks.

more
https://www.breitbart.com/2024-election/2024/05/29/report-one-juror-appears-sympathetic-donald-trump/
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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #241 on: May 29, 2024, 11:49:06 am »
Report: One Juror Appears Sympathetic to Donald Trump

Wendell Husebø 29 May 2024

One juror who sat for six weeks listening to the evidence presented in a Manhattan courtroom against former President Donald Trump reportedly appears sympathetic towards him.



$5 says they'll threaten to dox and harass him, unless he gets on board.
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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #242 on: May 29, 2024, 11:51:56 am »
Report: One Juror Appears Sympathetic to Donald Trump

Wendell Husebø 29 May 2024

One juror who sat for six weeks listening to the evidence presented in a Manhattan courtroom against former President Donald Trump reportedly appears sympathetic towards him.

The jury on Wednesday will begin to consider whether or not Trump, beyond a reasonable doubt,  committed a crime of falsifying records to conceal a second crime. Many legal experts believe there is no good case against Trump.

Some legal experts, such as constitutional scholar Jonathan Turley, expect the jury will either render a guilty verdict or produce a hung jury that results in a mistrial.

The prospects of a hung jury could be based on a report of one juror who made “friendly eye contact with Trump from time to time as the jury enters the room and walks right past the defense table.”

Marc Caputo wrote in the Bulwark:

    “There are eight people on that jury who definitely hate Trump. If there’s one person who doesn’t, it’s [this] juror,” said one court attendee who, like others for this story, relayed their observations on condition of anonymity to The Bulwark, which is also protecting the privacy and safety of the juror in question by not disclosing identifying details.

    As the trial has progressed since April 15, these sources relate, this juror has appeared to nod along in seeming accordance with the defense at times. On other occasions, the juror has seemingly reacted favorably to and made eye contact with Trump’s congressional surrogates who began joining him in court in recent weeks.

more
https://www.breitbart.com/2024-election/2024/05/29/report-one-juror-appears-sympathetic-donald-trump/

They may be favorable towards DJT but I can also see them being pressured to vote the other way so that this horse and pony show can be over and they can be done.  Most of the jurors hate Trump and with this judge I don' think that the defense had a chance in swaying them otherwise.

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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #243 on: May 29, 2024, 11:53:26 am »
2 minutes ago
Jury instructions to take about an hour: judge
By Kyle Schnitzer

Justice Merchan tells the jury that instructions will take about one hour.

An hour?  This is unheard of for a trial where no crime took place.
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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #244 on: May 29, 2024, 11:53:29 am »
$5 says they'll threaten to dox and harass him, unless he gets on board.

 :yowsa:

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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #245 on: May 29, 2024, 11:56:29 am »
Merchan told the jury, " You must always find the GUILTY party GUILTY even if you think the GUILTY party is not GUILTY"

He might as well have.
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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #246 on: May 29, 2024, 11:59:42 am »
Quote
Andrew H. Giuliani
@AndrewHGiuliani
·
26s
Merchan, the “Honorable Judge” is now describing the third law the Soros funded DA attempted to prove President Trump was guilty of: Violation of Tax Laws.

But that's not true.  The Soros funded DA didn't even bring that up until closing arguments.  There was zero evidence or testimony produced that implicate Trump for tax law violations.
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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #247 on: May 29, 2024, 12:04:46 pm »
Quote
Andrew H. Giuliani
@AndrewHGiuliani
·
14m
Merchan back on Violating Tax Laws.

The “Honorable Judge” says it is unlawful to file false tax returns, even if it does not result in underpayment of taxes.

Too bad the prosecution failed to submit into evidence a single example where Trump violated tax laws.
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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #248 on: May 29, 2024, 12:06:01 pm »
22 minutes ago
'Mother Theresa could not beat these charges,' Trump says as jury begins deliberating
By Kaydi Pelletier

"Mother Theresa could not beat these charges," Donald Trump said to reporters in the court hallway just now, shortly after the jury was released from the courtroom to begin deliberating.

"The trial is rigged. The judge is so conflicted, he can't breathe."
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Re: LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict
« Reply #249 on: May 29, 2024, 12:07:07 pm »
Is the verdict in yet?

Not yet.  They have to dine on their steak and lobster supper and enjoy a night in their 5-star hotel room first.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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