Author Topic: Ukraine 7  (Read 22523 times)

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Offline Canuck Conservative

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #300 on: August 07, 2025, 04:20:49 pm »
And Russia wonders why it has so few friends.
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Offline BobfromWB

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #301 on: August 08, 2025, 10:57:24 am »
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, August 7, 2025

Excerpts:

Putin may have used his meeting with Witkoff to propose a long-range strikes moratorium, which would allow Russia to stockpile long-range drones and missiles and renew devastating large-scale strikes against Ukraine after the moratorium expires. A strikes moratorium will also handicap Ukraine's ability to continue its long-range strike campaign aimed at attriting the Russian defense industrial base and wartime economy.  Bloomberg reported on August 5, citing people familiar with the situation, that Russia considered accepting a moratorium on long-range strikes in order to mitigate the threat of secondary US sanctions.

... Lukashenko ... claimed on August 1 that he recently told US representatives that Russia is interested in another long-range strikes moratorium.

US Secretary of State Marco Rubio confirmed ... that Putin gave Witkoff a ceasefire proposal, but did not specify the contents of the proposal.

Rubio stated that a ceasefire is an important part of the negotiation process, because it is difficult to negotiate a permanent peace deal while under fire - reiterating Trump's preferred timeline of establishing a ceasefire in Ukraine before starting formal peace negotiations to end the war.

Russia has significantly scaled up its drone and missile production in 2025, allowing Russia to rapidly increase the size of its strike packages that it launches against Ukraine. Ukraine's Main Military Intelligence Directorate (GUR) assessed on June 9 that Russia can produce roughly 170 Shahed-type drones per day and that Russia plans to increase production capacity to 190 drones per day by the end of 2025.

Ukrainian outlet Kyiv Independent reported on June 24 that it received GUR intelligence in early June 2025 that indicated that Russia had stockpiled roughly 600 Iskander-M ballistic missiles and 300 Iskander-K cruise missiles - a stockpile that would last about two years, should Russia sustain its current pace of missile strikes against Ukraine.

Russia continues to heavily invest in its long-range drone and missile production capabilities, including by leaning on partners and allies like Belarus, Iran, the People's Republic of China (PRC), and North Korea for weapons provisions, joint production efforts, and sanctions evasion schemes.

Russia will only continue to invest in its drone and missile production capabilities and lean on its allies as it prepares for a prolonged war effort in Ukraine and potential future conflict against NATO. The size of Russia's strike packages against Ukraine will therefore likely only continue to increase, as will the damage to civilian infrastructure and civilian casualties.

Russia in 2025 has already conducted over 10 of the largest-ever drone and missile strikes in the war thus far, and reportedly seeks to increase the size of its strike packages to contain up to 2,000 drones.

A temporary strikes moratorium would also degrade Ukraine's long-range strike campaign targeting Russia's defense industrial facilities and energy infrastructure - a campaign that is aimed at targeting Russia's defense production and energy revenues, as opposed to the solely civilian infrastructure that the Russian campaign often strikes.

Any agreement less than a full and long-term cessation in long-range strikes against civilian infrastructure will pose a great threat to Ukraine's civilian population and infrastructure upon the expiration of the agreement and resumption of long-range Russian strikes.

[ In short, any strikes moratorium would heavily favor Russia. ]

Putin likely claimed to Witkoff that Russia's territorial ambitions are limited to the seizure of Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhia, and Kherson oblasts. Putin is likely attempting to frame Russia's seizure of the four oblasts as inevitable in order to push Ukraine and the West to capitulate to Kremlin demands ... Putin remains committed to his demand that Russia occupy all 4 oblasts before he would be willing to establish a ceasefire - a reiteration of Putin's June 2024 demand that he and other Kremlin officials have since publicly repeated.

A Kremlin source also told Reuters that the Russian General Staff recently told Putin that the frontline in Ukraine will likely “crumble” in 2 to 3 months. ISW assessed that the Kremlin is likely leaking this information to try to project confidence in Russia's military capabilities and, in turn, to undermine Ukrainian and Western morale.

Russia's occupation of the 4 oblasts is neither inevitable nor imminent, as Russian forces will face serious operational obstacles in what are likely to be multi-year endeavors ... ISW assesses that Russia has yet to seize roughly 6,500 square kilometers of Donetsk Oblast, or about 25 percent of the region. Russian advances aimed at enveloping Pokrovsk have accelerated in recent weeks, but Russian forces have spent the last 18 months trying to seize an area of about 30 square kilometers. Russian forces have not demonstrated the capacity to seize cities of this size since mid-2022, and ISW continues to assess that the seizure of the fortress belt will be a difficult, multiyear effort.

Future Russian operations to seize the entirety of Zaporizhia and Kherson oblasts will require significant river crossing operations that Russian forces have historically struggled to complete since 2022 ... Russian forces have not conducted a successful cross-river operation at scale across the Dnipro River since Russian forces withdrew to east (left) bank Kherson Oblast in November 2022, and this river crossing occurred as Russian forces attempted to rapidly retreat from oncoming Ukrainian forces. Russia would likely struggle to pursue simultaneous efforts in Kherson and Zaporizhia oblasts, particularly considering the impacts of three years of war on Russian combat capabilities ... Kremlin officials, including Putin, have repeatedly indicated that Russia has more expansive territorial aims in Ukraine beyond the four oblasts.

Putin recently claimed that “all of Ukraine” is Russia's, Russian officials have called for Russia to seize Sumy City, and Kremlin officials routinely label Odessa and Kharkiv cities as “Russian” cities.

Putin's war aims are also not limited to territory. Kremlin statements continue to indicate that Putin remains committed to replacing the democratically elected Ukrainian government with a pro-Russian puppet government, reducing Ukraine's military such that Ukraine cannot defend itself from future aggression, abolishing NATO's long-held Open Door Policy, and changing the Ukrainian constitution to commit Ukraine to neutrality ... Putin remains committed to destroying the Ukrainian state, identity, and culture and subjugating the Ukrainian people.

Russian efforts to conquer all of Ukraine through battlefield gains would take decades should the current rate of advance continue, but Putin's theory of victory is contingent on the hypothesis that the West will abandon Ukraine long before he must.

Putin continues to believe that time is on Russia's side and that Russia can outlast Ukraine and the West. Economic measures coupled with Western military aid that enables Ukraine to inflict battlefield setbacks on Russian forces remain critical to changing Putin's calculus and bringing him to the negotiating table willing to make compromises to end the war.

The Belarusian Ministry of Defense (MoD) submitted a draft law to the Belarusian House of Representatives on August 7 that proposes amending the criteria for adopting martial law in Belarus to include attacks on the Union State and CSTO member states.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-august-7-2025
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Offline BobfromWB

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #302 on: August 08, 2025, 10:58:12 am »
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Offline BobfromWB

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #303 on: August 08, 2025, 11:03:15 am »
Kremlin snuffbox/ Кремлевская табакерка. Aug 7 2025

The Ministry of Defense has promised to step up the fight against “tourists” in the army and asks not to talk about the imminent end of the SVO

A source in the Ministry of Defense, using our channel, called on all information resources not to write or talk about the possible imminent end of the SVO. This could have a negative impact on the mood of the military at the front and "on the quality of people who will come to the army on a contract."

"Rumors are spreading again that the SVO may soon end, and there is talk at the front about demobilization. At the moment, I do not see any grounds for such talk. But I see a big threat that our heroic fighters will start fighting worse, thinking, why risk themselves if it will all end soon? Therefore, I ask you and all your colleagues not to say anything at all about the timing of the end of the special operation," the source said.

He also promised that in the near future the fight against so-called “tourists” - people who sign contracts and join the army in the hope of getting money and not fighting, “because everything will soon be over.”

"We have already tried to prevent those who do not want to fight from signing up for a contract ( we wrote about this, ed ). The fight against "tourists" is going on with varying success. We have weeded out some, and even punished others, harshly. But the army still includes quite a few random people who only think about money and who do not care about Victory. Many of them died in the first battles - simply because they were not ready. We must stop the practice of recruiting such a contingent into the army," the Defense Ministry representative added.

Another source in the ministry promised "a number of measures that will seriously improve the quality of the new military." He declined to say what these measures would be. He noted: "Let it be a surprise for everyone."

https://t.me/kremlin_secrets/6020
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Offline BobfromWB

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #304 on: August 08, 2025, 11:05:30 am »
Kremlin snuffbox/ Кремлевская табакерка, Aug 8 2025

Russians are being prepared for long-term communication outages

Minister of Digital Development, Communications and Mass Media Maksut Shadayev officially announced the agreement with telecom operators on a technical scheme that will allow access to a limited list of services even when the mobile Internet is disconnected.

We are talking about creating a kind of "white list of services" that will include taxis, deliveries, marketplaces. Or "all the resources needed for life," as Shadayev stated.

On the one hand , such decisions were expected. Earlier, we wrote that Russians will have to get used to living without internet and communications. On the other hand , sources say that Shadayev was advised to appear more actively in the press in order to suppress the echo of the large-scale cyberattack on Aeroflot.

"He promises Mishustin to strengthen control over all types of communications. This is necessary not only in the event of air attacks, but also in the event of other emergencies," said a government source. The source did not specify what emergencies he was talking about.

https://t.me/s/kremlin_secrets
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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #305 on: August 08, 2025, 11:35:04 am »
https://archive.ph/YrFmr

US and Russia Plan Truce Deal to Cement Putin’s Gains in Ukraine

Washington and Moscow are aiming to reach a deal to halt the war in Ukraine that would lock in Russia’s occupation of territory seized during its military invasion, according to people familiar with the matter.

US and Russian officials are working toward an agreement on territories for a planned summit meeting between Presidents Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin as early as next week, the people said, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss private deliberations. The US is working to get buy-in from Ukraine and its European allies on the deal, which is far from certain, the people said.

Putin is demanding that Ukraine cede its entire eastern Donbas area to Russia as well as Crimea, which his forces illegally annexed in 2014. That would require Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy to order a withdrawal of troops from parts of the Luhansk and Donetsk regions still held by Kyiv, handing Russia a victory that its army couldn’t achieve militarily since the start of the full-scale invasion in February 2022.

Such an outcome would represent a major win for Putin, who has long sought direct negotiations with the US on terms for ending the war that he started, sidelining Ukraine and its European allies. Zelenskiy risks being presented with a take-it-or-leave-it deal to accept the loss of Ukrainian territory, while Europe fears it would be left to monitor a ceasefire as Putin rebuilds his forces.

...continued at above link


*******************************
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Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #306 on: August 08, 2025, 12:01:27 pm »
Russians don't need friends - they have nukes and thugs.  They can take what they want from whom they want without all that needless and costly "negotiation".

And Russia wonders why it has so few friends.
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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #307 on: August 08, 2025, 02:06:34 pm »
@Hoodat

 tipping hat!!

A hat tip... for keeping this event/topic chronicled.  Your interest, dedication and overall knowledge on it is undeniable. 

Lasted one helluva lot longer than "...a month".  :bolt:

Knew these latest excursions/bombing of Ukraine territory as merely to create a broader claim on new real estate, but that he knew he had to stop the war 'soon'.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"They hate Sydney because she’s hotter than a habanero pepper planted in alkaline soil on a hill facing west and harvested in late fall after a dry summer."   TheThirdRuffian  

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline BobfromWB

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #308 on: August 08, 2025, 02:33:40 pm »
https://archive.ph/YrFmr

US and Russia Plan Truce Deal to Cement Putin’s Gains in Ukraine

Washington and Moscow are aiming to reach a deal to halt the war in Ukraine that would lock in Russia’s occupation of territory seized during its military invasion, according to people familiar with the matter ...

Putin is demanding that Ukraine cede its entire eastern Donbas area to Russia as well as Crimea ... handing Russia a victory that its army couldn’t achieve militarily since the start of the full-scale invasion in February 2022.

Such an outcome would represent a major win for Putin ...

A major betrayal of everything America has stood for since its founding. A recipe for a much larger war after Putin reconstitutes his military, which will involve US troops in another major conflict.

47 will have succeeded in ending this phase of Russia's war by making Russia great again and America the laughing stock of the world.

China [ and anyone else that thinks invasion will pay off ] will now have a free hand to take Taiwan and any other territory it pleases, having been shown how really weak 47 is and how weak America has become.

Also this will add fuel to the Russia-Trump collusion controversy, with 47 cozying up to mass murders, rapists and kidnappers who care not a wit about human life.

At least the Democrats were standing firm against Russia. Now 47 is betraying everything American to get his coveted Nobel Peace Prize.

Disgusting ...
« Last Edit: August 08, 2025, 02:35:25 pm by BobfromWB »
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Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #309 on: August 08, 2025, 03:34:18 pm »
A major betrayal of everything America has stood for since its founding. A recipe for a much larger war after Putin reconstitutes his military, which will involve US troops in another major conflict.

47 will have succeeded in ending this phase of Russia's war by making Russia great again and America the laughing stock of the world.

China [ and anyone else that thinks invasion will pay off ] will now have a free hand to take Taiwan and any other territory it pleases, having been shown how really weak 47 is and how weak America has become.

Also this will add fuel to the Russia-Trump collusion controversy, with 47 cozying up to mass murders, rapists and kidnappers who care not a wit about human life.

At least the Democrats were standing firm against Russia. Now 47 is betraying everything American to get his coveted Nobel Peace Prize.

Disgusting ...

The original 'Russia Collusion' was a fraud. This will be the real thing.  9999hair out0000
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #310 on: August 08, 2025, 03:36:28 pm »
Just like the Versailles Treaty after World War I, and the follow-on carving up of Europe, Africa, and the Middle East.  So how'd that work out?
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Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #311 on: August 08, 2025, 03:44:53 pm »
Just like the Versailles Treaty after World War I, and the follow-on carving up of Europe, Africa, and the Middle East.  So how'd that work out?

In this case Russia might stop their war in return for territory. More likely is the war will merely reduce to a simmer with periodic cross border attacks and then after Russia rebuilds their military they'll attack again.

It's what they do.
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Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #312 on: August 08, 2025, 04:35:01 pm »
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Offline Canuck Conservative

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #313 on: August 08, 2025, 04:38:22 pm »
If this war has shown anything, it's what a giant ongoing menace Russia is to all of Europe (and America too, by extension)

Let's hope this painful lesson is never forgotten ... don't ever be fooled again by Russia's lies & deceptions!!
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Offline BobfromWB

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #314 on: August 08, 2025, 06:23:13 pm »
If this war has shown anything, it's what a giant ongoing menace Russia is to all of Europe (and America too, by extension)

Let's hope this painful lesson is never forgotten ... don't ever be fooled again by Russia's lies & deceptions!!

47 is easily duped and it will be up to his successors to finish Russia, but then there is China who will see that 47 is a toothless paper tiger and go on to take not only Taiwan, but much of the Pacific - perhaps as far East as Hawaii.

After this Trump debacle, the US may as well save a lot of money and disband the entire military - it will no longer have a real purpose, as 47 shows the French what real surrender monkeys look like.
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Offline BobfromWB

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #315 on: August 09, 2025, 08:42:28 am »
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, August 8, 2025

Excerpts:

Kremlin officials are reportedly demanding that Ukraine cede to Russia strategically vital unoccupied territory in Donetsk Oblast and freeze the frontline in other areas as part of a ceasefire agreement ... Putin demanded that Ukraine cede the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, along with Crimea, as part of ceasefire negotiations ... it is not clear whether Russia is willing to give up any land that it currently occupies ... Witkoff stated that the Russian proposal included two phases: the first in which Ukraine would withdraw from Donetsk Oblast and Russia and Ukraine would freeze the frontline, followed by a second phase in which Putin and US President Donald Trump would agree on a peace plan that they would later negotiate with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky ... Trump stated at a press conference on August 8 that “there will be some swapping of territories to the betterment of both“ ...  [ Russia gets bigger, Ukraine gets more compact and easier to govern ... ]

Putin may be offering this proposal in an attempt to delay the sanctions that Trump threatened to impose by August 8 if Putin did not begin to negotiate with Ukraine to end the war ...  Putin is likely deliberately offering a proposal designed to be unacceptable to Ukraine in order to delay sanctions as well as meaningful ceasefire negotiations and place the blame for the failure of negotiations on Ukraine.

The surrender of the rest of Donetsk Oblast as the prerequisite of a ceasefire with no commitment to a final peace settlement ending the war would position Russian forces extremely well to renew their attacks on much more favorable terms, having avoided a long and bloody struggle for the ground. Conceding such a demand would force Ukraine to abandon its “fortress belt,” the main fortified defensive line in Donetsk Oblast since 2014 ... Ukraine has spent the last 11 years pouring time, money, and effort into reinforcing the fortress belt and establishing significant defense industrial and defensive infrastructure in and around these cities.

Putin's reported proposal once again underscores that he maintains his uncompromising demands for Ukraine's capitulation and remains disinterested in good-faith negotiations ... Putin's stated war aims and have not set conditions to take any off-ramps to accept a peace settlement that falls short - in contradiction with Putin's claims that he is interested in peace.

The Kremlin does not appear to be setting the domestic information conditions necessary for the Russian people to accept a settlement short of full victory in Ukraine ... A Russian outlet added an observation that “only Putin would dictate the terms of peace” when discussing the ceasefire proposal, likely to condition the Russian domestic audience to believe that Russia is the sole decider of the war's outcome

Another Russian outlet simply stated that the proposal may freeze the frontline in Ukraine and did not discuss the possibility of Russia halting its offensives in Kherson and Zaporizhia oblasts or Ukraine ceding Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts to Russia.

State Duma Defense Committee First Deputy Chairperson Alexei Zhuravlev stated that Putin is ”capable of outplaying any of the currently living politicians,” insinuating that Putin is not entering these negotiations in good faith and is superior to Trump ...

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-august-8-2025
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Offline BobfromWB

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #316 on: August 09, 2025, 08:43:05 am »
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #317 on: August 09, 2025, 09:32:08 am »
Zelensky dismisses territory swap proposal ahead of Trump-Putin meeting

https://thehill.com/policy/international/5444472-volodymyr-zelensky-donald-trump-vladimir-putin-meeting-territory-swap/

Quote
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky early Saturday once again dismissed the idea of Ukraine ceding land to Russia in proposed ceasefire talks.

“Of course, we will not give Russia any awards for what it has done,” Zelensky said in a video message posted to Telegram. “The Ukrainian people deserve peace.”

He added that “all partners” must understand peace and that “Ukrainians will not give their land to an occupier.”

The Ukrainian leader’s comments come just hours after the White House’s imposed deadline for a peace agreement between the nations lapsed. Trump on Friday proposed a land swap as a possible concession in his push to end the more than three-year-long war.

“We’re going to get some back, and we’re going to get some switched. There’ll be some swapping of territories to the betterment of both,” Trump told reporters when asked about negotiations.

EXCERPT

What's really appalling about all of this is that so many supposed Conservatives are now A-OK with invasion and occupation of westward looking democratic nations by aggressive empire builders, outright appeasement, unconditional surrender, and now "land for peace."

Reagan would be disgusted.
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Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #318 on: August 09, 2025, 10:19:30 am »
Russia must be destroyed.

After almost a century of those bastards invading their neighbors, slaughtering MILLIONS (more than the Nazis!), and endlessly threatening war it is time to put an end to their brutality.

By any means neccesary.

 22222frying pan  ****slapping  :chairbang:
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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #319 on: August 09, 2025, 10:25:29 am »
Russia must be destroyed.

After almost a century of those bastards invading their neighbors, slaughtering MILLIONS (more than the Nazis!), and endlessly threatening war it is time to put an end to their brutality.

By any means neccesary.

 22222frying pan  ****slapping  :chairbang:

@MeganC

Young Lady...you've been called out on this statement before.  Take your meds.   happy77
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"They hate Sydney because she’s hotter than a habanero pepper planted in alkaline soil on a hill facing west and harvested in late fall after a dry summer."   TheThirdRuffian  

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline BobfromWB

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #320 on: August 09, 2025, 10:32:28 am »
Russia must be destroyed.

After almost a century of those bastards invading their neighbors, slaughtering MILLIONS (more than the Nazis!), and endlessly threatening war it is time to put an end to their brutality.

By any means neccesary.

 22222frying pan  ****slapping  :chairbang:

Keep up the good work. 
:amen:  :flag:
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #321 on: August 09, 2025, 11:15:24 am »
Russia must be destroyed.

After almost a century of those bastards invading their neighbors, slaughtering MILLIONS (more than the Nazis!), and endlessly threatening war it is time to put an end to their brutality.

By any means neccesary.

 22222frying pan  ****slapping  :chairbang:

 :amen:
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Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #322 on: August 09, 2025, 12:43:18 pm »
@MeganC

Young Lady...you've been called out on this statement before.  Take your meds.   happy77

Go get your Geritol and Metamucil cocktail and sod off, old man.  :seeya:
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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #323 on: August 09, 2025, 01:15:15 pm »
Go get your Geritol and Metamucil cocktail and sod off, old man.  :seeya:

 888high58888   tipping hat!!   :beer:
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"They hate Sydney because she’s hotter than a habanero pepper planted in alkaline soil on a hill facing west and harvested in late fall after a dry summer."   TheThirdRuffian  

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #324 on: August 09, 2025, 02:34:07 pm »
RUSSIA MUST BE DESTROYED!!!

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #325 on: August 09, 2025, 03:21:29 pm »
:beer:  333cleo

Henceforth, Zelensky will sleep with one eye taped open, extra padlocks...and sign up with SimpliSafe.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"They hate Sydney because she’s hotter than a habanero pepper planted in alkaline soil on a hill facing west and harvested in late fall after a dry summer."   TheThirdRuffian  

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #326 on: August 09, 2025, 04:28:29 pm »
https://www.euronews.com/2025/08/09/ukraine-and-europe-counter-russian-ceasefire-proposal-that-suggests-giving-up-territory

Ukraine and Europe counter Russian ceasefire proposal that suggests giving up territory

By Euronews
Published on 09/08/2025 - 20:21 GMT+2

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy rejected the idea that his country would give up land to end the war with Russia. The Wall Street Journal reported that Ukrainian and European officials have presented Washington with a counterproposal.
Ukraine “will not give Russia any rewards for what it has done” and “Ukrainians will not give their land to the occupier," said Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Saturday.

US President Donald Trump earlier suggested a peace deal could include “some swapping of territories.”

A Russian ceasefire proposal has suggested to trade the Ukrainian territories of Donetsk and Luhansk for a full ceasefire.

Citing two European officials familiar with the matter, the Wall Street Journal reported on Saturday that Ukrainian and European officials have responded to Russia's ceasefire proposal with a counterproposal.

The proposal, presented to US Vice President JD Vance, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Ukraine envoy Keith Kellogg and Steve Witkoff, reiterates Ukraine and Europe should be involved in any negotiations held with Russia, while also demanding a ceasefire be implemented before further steps are taken.

It was put forward in a meeting with top US officials in the UK on Saturday, according to the officials.

It comes after Trump said Friday that he would meet with Vladimir Putin even if the Russian leader would not meet with Zelenskyy. The Trump-Putin meeting, scheduled for next Friday in Alaska, is seen as a potential breakthrough in the more than three-year war.

Zelenskyy dismissed the planned summit, warning that any negotiations to end the war in Ukraine must include Kyiv.

“Any decisions that are without Ukraine are at the same time decisions against peace. They will not bring anything. These are dead decisions. They will never work,” he said.

In a statement posted to Telegram, Zelenskyy said Ukraine’s territorial integrity, enshrined in the constitution, must be non-negotiable, and emphasised that lasting peace must include Ukraine’s voice at the table.

European leaders came to Zelenskyy's side with statements posted on social media.

French President Emmanuel Macron said "Ukraine’s future cannot be decided without the Ukrainians" in a post on X, adding that "Europeans will also necessarily be part of the solution, as their own security is at stake."

Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez echoed the sentiment, adding that "we must reach a just and lasting peace that respects Ukraine's independence and sovereignty."

Zelenskyy also spoke with Finnish President Alexander Stubb, thanking him for his support. "Ukraine and Finland have the longest borders with Russia in Europe, and our people know very well what threats this brings," he said in a post on X.

(Excerpt)
RUSSIA MUST BE DESTROYED!!!

Online DCPatriot

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #327 on: August 09, 2025, 04:55:30 pm »
Okay...so the DrudgeReport page headlines are reading:



"ZELENSKY DEFIANT!!"

What should we expect next, ZIEFERS?
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"They hate Sydney because she’s hotter than a habanero pepper planted in alkaline soil on a hill facing west and harvested in late fall after a dry summer."   TheThirdRuffian  

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline Canuck Conservative

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #328 on: August 09, 2025, 05:44:22 pm »
A major portion of the land that Russia claims, it still doesn't control

And that area is heavily fortified by Ukraine, meaning it would take Russia a lot of time and casualties to get it

Russia is obviously using these talks to try to get hold of the land without having to fight for it

Munich 1938, v 2.0 ??

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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #329 on: August 09, 2025, 06:05:28 pm »
What should we expect next, ZIEFERS?

Trump meets Putin in Alaska (at the Hotel Captain Cook in Anchorage?), Putin blows smoke up Trump's butt, Trump makes dumb deal that Ukraine refuses, and Putin goes home thinking that he can't wait to get Alaska back.
aka "nasty degenerate SOB," "worst of the worst at Free Republic," "Garbage Troll," "Neocon Warmonger," "Filthy Piece of Trash," "damn $#%$#@!," "Silly f'er," "POS," "war pig," "neocon scumbag," "insignificant little ankle nipper," "@ss-clown," "neocuck," "termite," "Uniparty Deep stater," "Never Trump sack of dog feces," "avid Bidenista," "filthy Ukrainian," "war whore," "fricking chump," "psychopathic POS," "depraved SOB," "Never Trump Moron," "Lazarus," and "sock puppet."

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Offline BobfromWB

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #330 on: August 10, 2025, 07:44:15 am »
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, August 9, 2025

The Trump Administration has described Russian President Vladimir Putin's reported demands for a ceasefire in Ukraine in four different ways since August 6
... [ there seems to be a fair bit of confusion surrounding what was or was not said at the Putin-Witkoff meeting ].

The only element of Putin's reported position common to all reports is Putin's continued demand for Ukraine to withdraw from unoccupied areas of Donetsk Oblast - a major Ukrainian concession ...

Ukrainian and European officials reportedly presented a counterproposal to US officials on August 9 as European officials continue to issue statements of support for Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity ...

Russian officials welcomed the announcement that US President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin will meet in Alaska on August 15 and referenced Russian narratives about Russia's historical claims to Alaska ... Russian Security Council Deputy Chairperson Dmitry Medvedev claimed in January 2024 that Russia has been waiting for the United States to return Alaska “any day” ...

Ukraine continues its long-range drone strike campaign against Russian military and defense industrial base (DIB) facilities. Ukraine's Security Service (SBU) reported on August 9 that it conducted a drone strike against a Russian Shahed drone warehouse in Kzyl Yul, Republic of Tatarstan and that the drone strike started a fire at the warehouse ...

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-august-9-2025
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Offline BobfromWB

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #331 on: August 10, 2025, 07:45:14 am »
Another refugee from TOS' very nasty Russian AI bot farm

Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #332 on: August 10, 2025, 08:50:58 am »
Trump meets Putin in Alaska (at the Hotel Captain Cook in Anchorage?), Putin blows smoke up Trump's butt, Trump makes dumb deal that Ukraine refuses, and Putin goes home thinking that he can't wait to get Alaska back.

Another possibility:

Trump meets Putin in Alaska and Putin says to Trump: "Welcome to Russia!"
RUSSIA MUST BE DESTROYED!!!

Offline BobfromWB

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #333 on: August 10, 2025, 08:59:46 am »
Another possibility:

Trump meets Putin in Alaska and Putin says to Trump: "Welcome to Russia!"

Trump says, "Quiet. Don't let the media hear that. Its a secret."
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Offline 240B

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #334 on: August 10, 2025, 05:15:29 pm »

Trump envoy 'misunderstood' Putin's demands for ending Ukraine war, insiders say - as president mulls inviting Zelensky to Alaska summit

Daily Mail
By JAMES CIRRONE
10 August 2025



The US's special envoy to the Middle East may have misinterpreted Vladimir Putin's terms for ending Russia's war in Ukraine as he worked to set up a face-to-face with President Trump, according to media reports.

Steve Witkoff met with Russian president at the Kremlin for about three hours on Wednesday, after which Trump praised his negotiator for making 'great progress'.

However, a report from BILD, a German outlet, suggests that Witkoff was under the impression that when Putin demanded a 'peaceful withdrawal' from Kherson and Zaporizhia, he meant that he wanted Russian soldiers to withdraw.

According to insiders, Putin actually meant he wanted Ukrainian forces to give up these tactically important cities.

'Witkoff doesn't know what he's talking about,' a Ukrainian official told BILD.

It is understood that Russia is refusing to budge on its demand for control of the Ukrainian regions of Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhia, Kherson and Crimea.

It comes as Trump officially set Friday August 15 as the day he and Putin will meet in Alaska to discuss a negotiated settlement to the war, which has stretched on for over three-and-a-half years. It will be Putin's first time stepping inside the US for a decade.

'It's complicated, nothing easy,' Trump told reporters ahead of the announcement. 'It's very complicated but we're going to get some back and we're going to get some switched.'

(more)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14986825/trump-envoy-misunderstood-vladimir-putin-ukraine-war.html
You may find 'nobility' in a savage. But never forget that his first instinct is to kill you.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists

Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #335 on: August 10, 2025, 06:43:33 pm »
Trump envoy 'misunderstood' Putin's demands for ending Ukraine war, insiders say - as president mulls inviting Zelensky to Alaska summit

Witkoff's an idiot.  But Trump's an even bigger idiot for sending this clueless moron to try and negotiate with a monster like Putin.
aka "nasty degenerate SOB," "worst of the worst at Free Republic," "Garbage Troll," "Neocon Warmonger," "Filthy Piece of Trash," "damn $#%$#@!," "Silly f'er," "POS," "war pig," "neocon scumbag," "insignificant little ankle nipper," "@ss-clown," "neocuck," "termite," "Uniparty Deep stater," "Never Trump sack of dog feces," "avid Bidenista," "filthy Ukrainian," "war whore," "fricking chump," "psychopathic POS," "depraved SOB," "Never Trump Moron," "Lazarus," and "sock puppet."

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Offline Canuck Conservative

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #336 on: August 10, 2025, 07:10:41 pm »
"Witkoff is a real estate buddy of Trump’s and has no foreign policy experience prior to becoming special envoy, where he juggles the responsibilities of trying to broker peace in Ukraine and the Gaza Strip..."

https://nypost.com/2025/08/10/us-news/questions-swirl-about-whether-steve-witkoff-misunderstood-vladimir-putins-offer-on-ukraine/

(appointing someone with no foreign policy experience to deal with America's most devious enemy ... what could possibly go wrong??)
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Offline jafo2010

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #337 on: August 10, 2025, 08:27:32 pm »
The Bottomline:  there is no negotiating with Putin.  He perceives Trump and mostly all Americans as weak minded people.  He will piss on Trump, and Trump will not get it. 

The only approach to Russia is total brutality.  It is the only thing that gets their attention.  Anything else, and it is perceived as weakness.  And they despise weakness, and that is all Trump has done in regard to dealing with Putin.  He operates from a total position of perceived weakness.

I say supply Ukraine with our most powerful conventional weapons to destroy Russian energy production in the metro Moscow area. Ukraine should send teams in with explosives to destroy the rail transit system.  Destroy every major road in metro Moscow.  Destroy their ability to distribute food in Moscow, destroy their ability to produce heat for the cold months in the Moscow metro.  Ruin the life of enough Russians in the metro Moscow region, and you will have enough disgruntled people rise up and depose Putin.   MAYBE!

And all the sanctions to date have had little to no effect on the Russians.  Give Ukraine cruise missiles to send to destroy major targets.  Having been to Russia three times, I know that Moscow is colder than any of you can imagine.  Far colder than any place I have seen in the USA.

In order to use a 35mm SLR, I had to keep it beneath my down jacket, take it out and shoot a photo in maybe 2 seconds, or the shutter would freeze and not work.  I am talking cold as sh*t!!!

Starve and freeze enough Russians in the coming winter season in the metro Moscow area, and there is a slight chance they rise up to depose Putin.  And along the way, kill as many Russian soldiers in Ukraine as possible. 

Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #338 on: August 10, 2025, 08:47:10 pm »
@jafo2010

Ukraine needs to target Moscow's steam generation plants.  :yowsa:
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Offline jafo2010

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #339 on: August 10, 2025, 09:15:12 pm »
Exactly!  Take those plants out, they freeze.  And along with that, drop leaflets telling the people that the only way this ends is with the removal of Putin.  Otherwise, freeze and starve them.  Driven to that extreme, I do not see them remaining the obedient, subservient people that they are.

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #340 on: August 10, 2025, 09:40:50 pm »
Exactly!  Take those plants out, they freeze.  And along with that, drop leaflets telling the people that the only way this ends is with the removal of Putin.  Otherwise, freeze and starve them.  Driven to that extreme, I do not see them remaining the obedient, subservient people that they are.

Is everything okay with you?   Not yourself today??

 :chairbang:
jafo DCP
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"They hate Sydney because she’s hotter than a habanero pepper planted in alkaline soil on a hill facing west and harvested in late fall after a dry summer."   TheThirdRuffian  

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline jafo2010

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #341 on: August 11, 2025, 01:28:59 am »
What would have you thinking I am not myself?

Offline BobfromWB

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #342 on: August 11, 2025, 06:45:49 am »
Among the other victories in the upcoming Trump-Putin meeting is a major victory for Putin - he gets to come out of the cold, and he gets to do it on former Russian soil, now part of his biggest enemy.

Propagandists in Russia are going to have a field day with these windfalls their heroic leader has garnered. The Russian people are going to rally even more behind their leader, who in the world's spotlight has duped 47, even before the actual meeting.

What manipulations Putin will use on the extremely naive Trump, will have many waiting with baited breath. Everyone knows that whatever those outcomes may be, 47 will hail them as great achievements, unable to see past his forthcoming Nobel prize. Fox news hosts will echo them for absorption by the great unwashed, listening eagerly for the latest sports/personality/social media updates, while trying on a newly advertised diaper brand.

In the end, people will learn that real estate moguls & TV personalities do not make good international negotiators or Presidents. When Putin comes after the rest of Europe, they will not like 47 when their kids have to fight and die in Europe [ once again ] because a naive President & his Pit Bull were duped and manipulated by a shrewd monster.

Russia not only must be destroyed, but broken up into many separate countries, with some parts absorbed by neighbors like Finland, Sweden, and Norway.

Russia must never, never be allowed to rise again.
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Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #343 on: August 11, 2025, 09:26:27 am »
What would have you thinking I am not myself?

He's trolling you. Russians hate it when people point out their weak spots.
RUSSIA MUST BE DESTROYED!!!

Offline BobfromWB

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #344 on: August 11, 2025, 09:39:35 am »
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, August 10, 2025

Excerpts:

The United States and Ukraine's European allies agree that Europe, not the United States, will fund further military and security assistance to Ukraine ...

Vance gave an interview to Fox News on August 10 and reiterated the Trump Administration's consistent position that the United States will no longer directly fund the Ukrainian military effort, but that Europe can continue to buy weapons from US manufacturers for Ukraine and Europe's own defensive needs ...

Rutte stated in an interview with Face the Nation published on August 10 that the “floodgate” of lethal aid packages to Ukraine opened after US President Donald Trump met with Rutte on July 14 and that Canada and European NATO allies will continue to fund weapons for Ukraine ...

US President Donald Trump is reportedly considering a trilateral meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky during the August 15 summit in Alaska ... the White House has not ruled out the possibility of inviting Zelensky to Alaska ... Vance stated that Putin's refusal to meet with Zelensky has been one of the most significant impediments to the peace process.

The Kremlin is attempting to use the upcoming Alaska summit to divide the United States from Europe rather than engage in meaningful peace efforts ... Markov stated that Russia refuses to take any steps backward and that the only compromise that Russia is willing to consider is halting military efforts to seize Odesa and Kharkiv oblasts and Kherson and Zaporizhzhia cities. Markov expressed hope that Trump will realize that Zelensky is the main reason for Russia's war in Ukraine and that European leaders are the second reason for the war, rather than Russia.

European and Ukrainian officials, including Zelensky, have consistently demonstrated their willingness to promote and engage in good faith negotiations and impose substantive ceasefire agreements to progress the peace initiative, which Russia has consistently rejected in pursuit of incremental battlefield gains and additional concessions from Ukraine and the West ...

ISW continues to assess that Russia remains unwilling to compromise on its long-standing war aims of preventing Ukraine from joining NATO, regime change in Ukraine in favor of a pro-Russian proxy government, and Ukraine's demilitarization - all of which would ensure Ukraine's full capitulation - and that Russia will very likely violate and weaponize any future ceasefire agreements in Ukraine while blaming Ukraine for the violations as it repeatedly did in Spring 2025.

Ukraine's European allies continue to signal their support for Ukraine and US-led peace efforts ahead of the Alaska summit ... The European leaders called for a ceasefire or reduction of hostilities before negotiations begin and stated that the current frontline should be the starting point for negotiations. The leaders also called for robust and credible security guarantees that protect Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity. The leaders expressed their commitment to the principle that international borders cannot be changed by force and reiterated that Russia's invasion of Ukraine violates the UN Charter, the Helsinki Act, and the Budapest Memorandum, among other Russian international agreements.

Russian tank losses appear to be declining as Russian forces continue to deprioritize mechanized assaults across the frontline, indicating that the Russian command recognizes that it cannot protect vehicles from Ukrainian drone strike capabilities on the frontline and near rear ... The source stated that Russian T-62 and T-90 loss rates remain consistent, T-72 loss rates have declined in proportion to the overall decline of Russian tank losses, and T-80 tank loss rates have significantly declined.

Russia has likely exhausted much or all of its stockpiles of T-80 tanks and is likely conserving existing stores and stockpiling newer tank models while depleting stores of other tanks and armored vehicles, including the older T-62. Russian forces have conducted relatively few but costly mechanized assaults in Ukraine thus far in 2025 due to the effectiveness of Ukrainian drone strikes against armored vehicles, instead prioritizing infantry-led assaults and assaults on expendable motorcycles and other light vehicles.

Russian forces have been using armored vehicles to transport infantry to forward positions for infantry assaults, constraining Russian advances to foot pace and preventing Russia from using mechanized maneuver warfare to exploit breakthroughs and achieve operationally significant advances.

It remains unclear why Russia continues to invest significantly in tank and armored vehicle development and production while Russian forces are largely unable to field these vehicles for their intended purposes, as Ukrainian forces maintain the ability to inflict high frontline and near rear armored vehicle losses with drone reconnaissance and strikes.

Russia may be preparing for the eventuality that Russian forces will become able to counter Ukrainian drone operations well enough to be able to field armored vehicles and restore at least some maneuver to the battlefield, but ISW has observed no indications of Russian technological advances in this direction.

Ukrainian drone manufacturers have developed a new drone capable of intercepting higher-speed Russian drones ... Ukrainian drone manufacturer Besomar ...  developed a reusable interceptor drone that is capable of downing Russian drones at speeds up to 200 kilometers per hour, including Geran-type long-range strike drones.

The interceptor drone is equipped with a shotgun and an automated firing system that can hold between two and four shots. The interceptor drone is also equipped with a digital communications system with a frequency response that allows the drone to approach its target unnoticed by the Russian drone's evasion systems. The drone can fire manually or automatically due to a sensor in the nose of the drone that the drone operator can activate to initiate a shot when a target enters the drone's range.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-august-10-2025
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Offline BobfromWB

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #345 on: August 11, 2025, 09:40:11 am »
Another refugee from TOS' very nasty Russian AI bot farm

Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #346 on: August 11, 2025, 11:32:16 am »
aka "nasty degenerate SOB," "worst of the worst at Free Republic," "Garbage Troll," "Neocon Warmonger," "Filthy Piece of Trash," "damn $#%$#@!," "Silly f'er," "POS," "war pig," "neocon scumbag," "insignificant little ankle nipper," "@ss-clown," "neocuck," "termite," "Uniparty Deep stater," "Never Trump sack of dog feces," "avid Bidenista," "filthy Ukrainian," "war whore," "fricking chump," "psychopathic POS," "depraved SOB," "Never Trump Moron," "Lazarus," and "sock puppet."

"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act."  ---George Orwell

Offline BobfromWB

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #347 on: August 11, 2025, 12:42:10 pm »
@Timber Rattler

What if Putin demands the return of Alaska to end the Ukraine war? Asking for a friend.
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Offline MeganC

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #348 on: August 11, 2025, 01:09:12 pm »
Russian Media Monitor relays the Russian state media assessment of the upcoming Trump-Putin reenactment of the 1938 Munich Conference:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q-3BWv9_W0


Selected comments from the You Tube channel:


@cawstongreenway
3 days ago
The last comment, "on our terms, of course" says it all. Russia is not coming to negotiate, it will be the same old same old... Unrealistic demands, kick it down the road, nothing changes...

@Dcfc1chez
3 days ago
Putim is such a coward.

@jimbograves1576
3 days ago
Seems pretty simple. We're in the final hours of the sanctions, and what do you know, Whitkof is in Moscow. Here we go, kicking the can down the road some more. Looks like Putin just got more time AGAIN!😂

@sargfowler9603
3 days ago
Has Russia ever honoured a peace deal?


@panzergrenadier2946
2 days ago
Citizens of Muscovia: Ashamed of nothing, offended by everything.

@micah4242
2 days ago
Putin has “short man, need bigger empire” syndrome. Russia is already the largest nation in the world, spanning 11 time zones. Imagine what could be done if Putin put the money and manpower from his war machine into developing a modern industrial/tech/ cultural base in Russia.

@jean-pierretanguay4810
1 day ago
Munich 2.0 (no thanks). Slava Ukraine!

@ErlingJensen-g4c
1 day ago
When Neville Chamberline met with Hitler, Chekeslovakia and Poland were not invited. Chamberlaine declared "Peace in our time" and the WW2 began



RUSSIA MUST BE DESTROYED!!!

Offline BobfromWB

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Re: Ukraine 7
« Reply #349 on: August 11, 2025, 02:55:05 pm »
Russian Media Monitor relays the Russian state media assessment of the upcoming Trump-Putin reenactment of the 1938 Munich Conference:

Selected comments from the You Tube channel:

@ErlingJensen-g4c
1 day ago
When Neville Chamberline met with Hitler, Chekeslovakia and Poland were not invited. Chamberlaine declared "Peace in our time" and the WW2 began

So when 47 meets with Putin and Zelenski is not invited, does that make 47 Neville Chamberlain?
Another refugee from TOS' very nasty Russian AI bot farm