'Get on the bandwagon': Trump slams 'unbelievably disloyal' GOP senators in overnight rant

[roamer_1]

The worst are Republicans who acknowledge that these tariffs are going to  hurt their constituents, but have decided that being loyal to Trump is more important

The thing that's missing is CHOICE. When there is an American or Mexican, or European alternative, THEN throw your weight around with tariffs. CINO-JP-SK is most of the off-shore world. Citizens are GOING TO take it hard because everything is made there, or at the component or part level. Yo're gonna pay more. And you will have to.

See, it's nothing but a cheesy short fix. It will supposedly drive manufacturing back home - without fixing any of the American problems that drove them off-shore.

Absolutely short-sighted and bass-akwards.

And it will change nothing, because it has no legs. Everyone knows it is over in three years at best, so everyone will hunker down and survive it. It won't do shit.

[Free Vulcan]

Oil has dropped $5/bbl this morning..

That's a shame.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I provided the DJT's chart, and not one peep from the naysayers on why these tariffs are a bad idea. Given every single proposed Trump tariff is at or lower than every trading partner in the world.   Maybe they like wearing kick me signs on our backs.

Thanks for the chart @catfish1957  I pulled it from the X post, just in case folks missed it. The 1st column is the tariffs charged to the US, including currency manipulation and trade barriers.   The second column (gold) is the US discounted reciprocal tariff.

[catfish1957]

The thing that's missing is CHOICE. When there is an American or Mexican, or European alternative, THEN throw your weight around with tariffs. CINO-JP-SK is most of the off-shore world. Citizens are GOING TO take it hard because everything is made there, or at the component or part level. Yo're gonna pay more. And you will have to.

See, it's nothing but a cheesy short fix. It will supposedly drive manufacturing back home - without fixing any of the American problems that drove them off-shore.

Absolutely short-sighted and bass-akwards.

And it will change nothing, because it has no legs. Everyone knows it is over in three years at best, so everyone will hunker down and survive it. It won't do shit.

And still, look at Trump's chart where every proposed tariff is at or below what the corresponding country's is. 

Like I said....  I for one, am tired of the proverbial "kick me" sign on our backs, but I guess that's alright with you. And I do know of the far east confederation pact.  That's fine and good, unless they want forsake 30% of their business. I am guessing that they come to the table, especially since they charge more tariffs to us, than we do to them.

See chart above...

Japan- 46% on us.....  We are proposing 24% on them
South Korea- 50% on us,  We are proposing 25% on them
Chiina- 67% on us   We are proposing 34% on them

[cato potatoe]

I don't understand what you are getting at...   There are 2 columns on the chart

(1) Tariffs Charged to the USA including currency manipulation and trade barriers
(2) USA discounted Reciprocal tariffs

I don't see anything specfic to trade deficits, and it seems pretty self explanitory to me.

In my mind, reciprocity would mean the EU has the 39% tax he listed, and we respond with 39%.  But their average tax is more like 1%, with some exceptions like cars at 10%.  We charge 25% on trucks. 
I think he divided the trade deficit with the EU ($236B) by the imports from EU ($606B) and came up with 39%

Currency manipulation is a phrase Trump uses, but has never cites in an example, and I doubt he even understands it on a basic level.  There may be certain trade barriers, but those would not translate into a percentage. 

[roamer_1]

Otherwise, I challenge one Briefer to counter , why we should let the world have the upper hand.

Happily: Cart before the horse. And with no alternative, as I said upthread.

What will work is fixing the anti-business environment here at home so those companies bring their manufacturing back of their own accord.

You won't force them back in four short years. It has to be a plan enforceable for decades.
That will never happen this way.

[catfish1957]

Happily: Cart before the horse. And with no alternative, as I said upthread.

What will work is fixing the anti-business environment here at home so those companies bring their manufacturing back of their own accord.

You won't force them back in four short years. It has to be a plan enforceable for decades.
That will never happen this way.

So that is basically an endorsement of the world systematically doubling the tariffs versus what we invoke, and we perpetually accepting it? 

Quite a  winning stategy there  Cotton.   Otherwise, what the hell would you do?

[roamer_1]

IMO, what we're witnessing is tantamount to a wrestling match. 

Yeah. WWE wrestling. 

POTUS has them pinned to the mat and we're merely waiting for the "tap out".

As youngsters, we all hated when mom grabbed the Castor Oil...[/size]

More like the guy you paid to play your mom, after he's got you all tied up, and pulls out the KY jelly.

I can't believe how blinded y'all are.
Make America BOHICA. Again.

[roamer_1]

Good points, but I think you missed the main point.  This is a leveling process.... 

No it's not. it's four years. The bet is whether it will make it that long, or die with the Democrats taking over at the mid terms. There is no way they won't hunker down and wait him out. Just like last time.

[catfish1957]

In my mind, reciprocity would mean the EU has the 39% tax he listed, and we respond with 39%.  But their average tax is more like 1%, with some exceptions like cars at 10%.  We charge 25% on trucks. 

That is a good question, but my guess is, is that since different products have different tariff quantities, I am guessing that Trump's team calculated or formulated a weighted average.  If they did it, product by product world wide, this process would never end.

I think he divided the trade deficit with the EU ($236B) by the imports from EU ($606B) and came up with 39%

Coincidence maybe.  Past trade is water under the bridge.  That is, unless he is thinking in extrapolative terms.  Which honeslty isn't a bad strategy for a process of leveling long term.

Currency manipulation is a phrase Trump uses, but has never cites in an example, and I doubt he even understands it on a basic level.  There may be certain trade barriers, but those would not translate into a percentage.


Naww...  there are economist wonks who know this process perfectly, and our "cough cough" friends the Chicoms are the masters of it. It's akin to playing games to circumvent trade deficits and policies. And Trump?  He's enough of businessman who has done enough international businees to understand how this works in negotiations of property.  I am guessing he understand currency markets more than people think.

Great points.....

[catfish1957]

No it's not. it's four years. The bet is whether it will make it that long, or die with the Democrats taking over at the mid terms. There is no way they won't hunker down and wait him out. Just like last time.

Shit!!!!!!

You won''t even acknowledge that our proposed tariffs are ALL below existing ones being imposed on us.
You aren't thinking rationally.  I am through responding.

Again, instead of being the whining perpetual naaysayer, how about some solutions?  At least Trump is trying to do something.

[roamer_1]

And still, look at Trump's chart where every proposed tariff is at or below what the corresponding country's is. 

I don't care. Not until there is a manufacturing alternative. You can't 'Buy American' because it ain't made here. Fix that FIRST.

Like I said....  I for one, am tired of the proverbial "kick me" sign on our backs, but I guess that's alright with you. And I do know of the far east confederation pact.  That's fine and good, unless they want forsake 30% of their business. I am guessing that they come to the table, especially since they charge more tariffs to us, than we do to them.

See chart above...

Japan- 46% on us.....  We are proposing 24% on them
South Korea- 50% on us,  We are proposing 25% on them
Chiina- 67% on us   We are proposing 34% on them

Oh I hate it too. But this will fix nothing. They will wait it out, or it will be trade war time. Either way, Americans are going to be paying way more. AGAIN. Only this time on top of the Tumpy/Bitem inflation loop.

Like I said, better to focus on the things that sent business offshore FIRST so they come home on their own. THEN throw your weight around.

This is just stupid.

[catfish1957]

I don't care. Not until there is a manufacturing alternative. You can't 'Buy American' because it ain't made here. Fix that FIRST.

Oh I hate it too. But this will fix nothing. They will wait it out, or it will be trade war time. Either way, Americans are going to be paying way more. AGAIN. Only this time on top of the Tumpy/Bitem inflation loop.

Like I said, better to focus on the things that sent business offshore FIRST so they come home on their own. THEN throw your weight around.

This is just stupid.

See your point, but @$37T debt.  Is there time?  Rebuildng Industrial infrastructure will take 10 years to reach our '60's-70's level of dominance or even competitive nature.

[roamer_1]

So that is basically an endorsement of the world systematically doubling the tariffs versus what we invoke, and we perpetually accepting it? 

Quite a  winning stategy there  Cotton.   Otherwise, what the hell would you do?

No this is an endorsement of not cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Like I said: Fix what drove business offshore and make us competitive. That's what's wrong.
You won't fix a damn thing without that first.

[mystery-ak]

How the Trump Administration Calculated the New Reciprocal Tariffs

The tariffs are calculated using a straightforward formula based on each country’s goods trade surplus with the United States


The Trump administration on Wednesday released its long-awaited formula for calculating the new reciprocal tariffs unveiled in the Rose Garden, offering a clearer picture of how the United States intends to address persistent trade imbalances.

According to a statement from the Office of the United States Trade Representative (USTR), the tariffs are calculated using a straightforward formula based on each country’s goods trade surplus with the United States. Specifically, the method divides a country’s trade surplus by its total exports to the U.S., then applies a 50 percent discount to the resulting percentage.

For example, China exported $438 billion in goods to the U.S. in 2024 and ran a trade surplus of $295 billion, according to Census Bureau data. That yields a surplus ratio of 67.4 percent, and after halving that figure, the U.S. imposed a 34 percent reciprocal tariff rate.

Countries with smaller imbalances are assessed proportionally lower rates. Nations where trade flows are roughly even or where the U.S. runs a surplus are subject to a flat 10 percent tariff.

more
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2025/04/03/how-the-trump-administration-calculated-the-new-reciprocal-tariffs/

[catfish1957]

No this is an endorsement of not cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Like I said: Fix what drove business offshore and make us competitive. That's what's wrong.
You won't fix a damn thing without that first.

I'd like to see both.  And with a Trillion + in commitment in new business the past few months, I think he is on the right track.

And still, I am guessing (hoping) that a great majority are going to come to the table to negotiate, rather than risk a trade war.  If he pulls that off, we win.

[roamer_1]

Shit!!!!!!

You won''t even acknowledge that our proposed tariffs are ALL below existing ones being imposed on us.

No, I don't care about that. You're fixated on the wrong damn thing.

You aren't thinking rationally.  I am through responding.

Again, instead of being the whining perpetual naaysayer, how about some solutions?  At least Trump is trying to do something.

Do something, even if it's wrong!!!

AGAIN: I don't care if it's fair or not. Don't rock the damn boat without having alternatives first. Another damn boat, preferably with a motor. Or at least a damn life jacket.

[catfish1957]

How the Trump Administration Calculated the New Reciprocal Tariffs

The tariffs are calculated using a straightforward formula based on each country’s goods trade surplus with the United States


The Trump administration on Wednesday released its long-awaited formula for calculating the new reciprocal tariffs unveiled in the Rose Garden, offering a clearer picture of how the United States intends to address persistent trade imbalances.

According to a statement from the Office of the United States Trade Representative (USTR), the tariffs are calculated using a straightforward formula based on each country’s goods trade surplus with the United States. Specifically, the method divides a country’s trade surplus by its total exports to the U.S., then applies a 50 percent discount to the resulting percentage.

For example, China exported $438 billion in goods to the U.S. in 2024 and ran a trade surplus of $295 billion, according to Census Bureau data. That yields a surplus ratio of 67.4 percent, and after halving that figure, the U.S. imposed a 34 percent reciprocal tariff rate.

Countries with smaller imbalances are assessed proportionally lower rates. Nations where trade flows are roughly even or where the U.S. runs a surplus are subject to a flat 10 percent tariff.

more
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2025/04/03/how-the-trump-administration-calculated-the-new-reciprocal-tariffs/

Thanks...  that explains that "extrapolative" theory I had.  and Cato's orginial assertion.

[roamer_1]

See your point, but @$37T debt.  Is there time?  Rebuildng Industrial infrastructure will take 10 years to reach our '60's-70's level of dominance or even competitive nature.

This will make MORE debt. More retaliatory imbalance.

And you're right - It will take decades. THAT's the real trade war.
This is just blowing everything the f*ck up. For four short years.

[roamer_1]

I'd like to see both.

Oh, me too, but one must come first. Fix what drove em offshore.

And with a Trillion + in commitment in new business the past few months, I think he is on the right track.

Nah. You know and I know that's a pocket full of promises. None of that can happen in four years.

And still, I am guessing (hoping) that a great majority are going to come to the table to negotiate, rather than risk a trade war.  If he pulls that off, we win.

For a few years maybe. Then the contracts change the minute he leaves office. And all those promised American manufacturing plants fade away, and it all goes right back the way it was.

That's why this is all just a massive waste of time for at best, a short term fix.

If you want it for realz, it has to come out of Congress. Ratified. Long term.

Four years from now, POOF!

[the OlLine Rebel]

Oh, me too, but one must come first. Fix what drove em offshore.

Nah. You know and I know that's a pocket full of promises. None of that can happen in four years.

For a few years maybe. Then the contracts change the minute he leaves office. And all those promised American manufacturing plants fade away, and it all goes right back the way it was.

That's why this is all just a massive waste of time for at best, a short term fix.

If you want it for realz, it has to come out of Congress. Ratified. Long term.

Four years from now, POOF!

I'd have to agree, overall.  This EO (tyrant-like) garbage has to stop.  Ultimately it's a paper tiger.  And clearly not thought out real well.

[the OlLine Rebel]

Imagine the nervousness of the Bush family right now as the JFK files are released?

You never saw the Carter funeral, I guess.

[roamer_1]

I'd have to agree, overall.  This EO (tyrant-like) garbage has to stop.  Ultimately it's a paper tiger.  And clearly not thought out real well.

But he's OUR paper tiger, dammit! 

People want a messiah. People want an emperor. They really do.
Quite literally, it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

And round and round we go, where it stops, nobody knows...

Here we go again. 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I provided the DJT's chart, and not one peep from the naysayers on why these tariffs are a bad idea. Given every single proposed Trump tariff is at or lower than every trading partner in the world.   Maybe they like wearing kick me signs on our backs.

That's the graphic that sort of changed my opinion on these. My guess is that'll happen with normies too.

We're all on board this roller coaster now, no getting off lol.

[LMAO]

One thing for certain is this is Trump’s economy now. Blaming Biden or blaming the Federal Reserve, Congress, the deep state, or businesses themselves like he did after his 2018 tariff round won’t sell to anybody outside the committed MAGA base. Their devotion to him will not overcome the electoral anger towards him if this continues.

Good luck

[Free Vulcan]

That's the graphic that sort of changed my opinion on these. My guess is that'll happen with normies too.

We're all on board this roller coaster now, no getting off lol.

Yep, because the reality is that reciprocity is the only way to level the playing field. They don't want that because they aren't efficient economies that can truly compete 1-on-1 and will do anything to keep from having to no matter what we do.

If we don't fix the imbalance, high paying manufacturing jobs will continue to bleed away till isn't nothing but McJobs, agricultural and welfare. Incomes will continue to decline and people won't even be able to buy the low end China crap made by slave labor.

[bilo]

Your question proves, yet again, you have zero idea who Trump is.  If Paul is a no-show at Mar-a-Lago, it will be the Senator's unlikely tantrum.  Trump would always welcome him to the Southern White House.

A classic Trump moment, recalled by both Trump and RFK Jr, is about the time Bobby's wife couldn't find available flights to get them to Palm Beach.  She called Trump and asked if they could use his plane.  When she told Bobby what she'd done, he was incredulous, asking her:  how could you do that, I'm suing him??  She replied:  when I mentioned your suit, he said he is well aware of it and laughed.

I guess its fair to say that Pres. Trump doesn't get fairly treated by most media!

How any Pubs could be opposed to the tariffs doesn't make sense. The USA was the only nation unscathed after WWII. We helped Europe and Asia rebuild and allowed very favorable trade practices to develop in order to help these countries and to keep the USSR as isolated as possible. We insured shipping lanes would be safe and even setup the United Nations to help resolve conflicts. The USSR is gone and our former allies have rebuilt. There is no need for our middle class to be decimated by manufacturing that has moved to cheaper markets.

Pres. Trump is right about the tariffs and trade. It may take years to get our manufacturing up to speed, but if it means young people will then have the opportunity to build a better future for themselves it is well worth it.

[DCPatriot]

I guess its fair to say that Pres. Trump doesn't get fairly treated by most media!

Chris Plante pointed out this morning that there were TWO televisions on next to each other in the station's large reception room.

CNN's screen had President Trump as "Tiger" orange, while the FOXNEWS screen showed him with normal flesh tones.

[LMAO]

President Donald Trump’s strategy to use import tariffs to protect and boost U.S. manufacturers backfired and led to job losses and higher prices, according to a Federal Reserve study released this week.

“We find that the 2018 tariffs are associated with relative reductions in manufacturing employment and relative increases in producer prices,” concluded Fed economists Aaron Flaaen and Justin Pierce, in an academic paper.

While the tariffs did reduce competition for some industries in the domestic U.S. market, this was more than offset by the effects of rising input costs and retaliatory tariffs, the study found.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/fed-study-finds-trump-tariffs-backfired-2019-12-27



The “American people need to suffer now for a better future for our children” is the same argument greenies make for shutting down our energy sector



But, MAGA will have an opportunity to make that argument in next years midterms to the voters should this continue


But I have noticed something about this argument, both pro and con. Those who support Donald Trump‘s actions are going by what they hope happens in the future. Those of us who oppose it are going by what has happened in the past with these policies. Conservatives are supposed to judge policy by the results, not its intentions

[roamer_1]

But I have noticed something about this argument, both pro and con. Those who support Donald Trump‘s actions are going by what they hope happens in the future. Those of us who oppose it are going by what has happened in the past with these policies. Conservatives are supposed to judge policy by the results, not its intentions

Huzzah! Conservatism is the study of what works... And has worked throughout history, with a focus on liberty.

[bilo]

Chris Plante pointed out this morning that there were TWO televisions on next to each other in the station's large reception room.

CNN's screen had President Trump as "Tiger" orange, while the FOXNEWS screen showed him with normal flesh tones.

It gets tiring.

There are times where I may not agree with his style, but that's just it it's only style. Pres. Trump's policies are terrific. Ending the post WWII globalism is the best thing we've done since winning the cold war.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Conservatism is the study of what works...

 

[Right_in_Virginia]

Chris Plante pointed out this morning that there were TWO televisions on next to each other in the station's large reception room.

CNN's screen had President Trump as "Tiger" orange, while the FOXNEWS screen showed him with normal flesh tones.

Video here @DCPatriot

https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/1907782186612257259

[Right_in_Virginia]

Thanks for the chart @catfish1957  I pulled it from the X post, just in case folks missed it. The 1st column is the tariffs charged to the US, including currency manipulation and trade barriers.   The second column (gold) is the US discounted reciprocal tariff.

Vietnam's tariffs on us: 90%  ⬆️

Vietnam's reaction to ours:  ⬇️

https://twitter.com/BreitbartNews/status/1907896609972637869

[kevindavis007]

Vietnam's tariffs on us: 90%  ⬆️

Vietnam's reaction to ours:  ⬇️

https://twitter.com/BreitbartNews/status/1907896609972637869

So?

[Right_in_Virginia]

"A 1996 video resurfaces of Nancy Pelosi discussing tariffs and the trade deficit with China."

https://twitter.com/ThomasSowell/status/1907875133638705646

[Right_in_Virginia]

What will work is fixing the anti-business environment here at home so those companies bring their manufacturing back of their own accord.

The full plan includes tariffs, tax cuts, new trade deals and regulation reforms.

You won't force them back in four short years.

They'll run back in less.

[roamer_1]

The full plan includes tariffs, tax cuts, new trade deals and regulation reforms.

They'll run back in less.

Not if they just have to run offshore again in 4 years they won't.

[Right_in_Virginia]

1987:  "I was tired, and I think a lot of people are tired of watching other countries ripping off the United States... they laugh at us. Behind our backs, they laugh at us because of our own stupidity."

https://twitter.com/RapidResponse47/status/1907888271612588204

[Lando Lincoln]

"A 1996 video resurfaces of Nancy Pelosi discussing tariffs and the trade deficit with China."

https://twitter.com/ThomasSowell/status/1907875133638705646

Wow!  Keeper.

[Bigun]

Happily: Cart before the horse. And with no alternative, as I said upthread.

What will work is fixing the anti-business environment here at home so those companies bring their manufacturing back of their own accord.

You won't force them back in four short years. It has to be a plan enforceable for decades.
That will never happen this way.

  

Pass HR25 into law and it's done!

(I'm not opposed to the current Trump approach as long as it gets us to the above mentioned permanent solution.)

[Bigun]

Guess how the MSM is playing this on the five o'clock news today. (They are SO predictable.)

[roamer_1]

 

Pass HR25 into law and it's done!

(I'm not opposed to the current Trump approach as long as it gets us to the above mentioned permanent solution.)

I wouldn't hold your breath wrt Flat tax.

Otherwise I am opposed. Different story with Harley for instance... The tariff targeted Jap bikes to protect Harley's market. You could avoid the tax entirely by buying American made, not even just harley.

This is not that. You WILL be affected. This will touch you, no matter what. It is basically a tax by another name, and you will be paying it, if you buy any hard goods.

Different story if there is an alternative - There is not.

And just as I am trying to fire my computer biz up again. Sheesh!

[Bigun]

I wouldn't hold your breath wrt Flat tax.

Otherwise I am opposed. Different story with Harley for instance... The tariff targeted Jap bikes to protect Harley's market. You could avoid the tax entirely by buying American made, not even just harley.

This is not that. You WILL be affected. This will touch you, no matter what. It is basically a tax by another name, and you will be paying it, if you buy any hard goods.

Different story if there is an alternative - There is not.

And just as I am trying to fire my computer biz up again. Sheesh!

If you think HR25 would mean a flat rate INCOME tax you are completely off base! 

http://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZEvUlW9dCy0

[roamer_1]

If you think HR25 would mean a flat rate INCOME tax you are completely off base! 

http://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZEvUlW9dCy0

No, I get it.... It's the latest rendition of Duncan Hunter's Fair Tax. I have always been a proponent thereof. It has just become a perennial offering that never makes it to the floor - Not to mention the Senate. So I won't get excited anymore until there's enough Republicans willing to actually pass the dang thing.

[Bigun]

No, I get it.... It's the latest rendition of Duncan Hunter's Fair Tax. I have always been a proponent thereof. It has just become a perennial offering that never makes it to the floor - Not to mention the Senate. So I won't get excited anymore until there's enough Republicans willing to actually pass the dang thing.

It would take away the politician's power to manipulate (read social engineer) via the tax code. Hence the difficulty.

[roamer_1]

It would take away the politician's power to manipulate (read social engineer) via the tax code. Hence the difficulty.

That's right, but it's been offered up by Conservatives since Duncan Hunter Sr. was a pup, without being passed. So like I said, don't hold your breath. 

[Bigun]

That's right, but it's been offered up by Conservatives since Duncan Hunter Sr. was a pup, without being passed. So like I said, don't hold your breath. 

It started with my former congressman Bill Archer in the mid 1970s and I've been onboard ever since.

[Hoodat]

The art of the deal

The one thing that Trump excels at is to greatly expand the discussion.  We are witnessing many different factions now chiming in with different view points from different perspectives, all because of Trump running his mouth about tariffs.

Here are some of those factions:

• The tariff originalists - these are the people who believe that our government should exclusively be funded by tariffs and that the federal income tax should be repealed.
  
  
• Free trade consumers - these are the people who believe that there should be no taxes imposed on American consumers.  This group also has no problem with other nations subsidizing exports since it works out for the consumer's benefit.
  
  
• Fair traders - this group believes in a level playing field where everyone plays by the same set of rules.
  
  
• Trade deficit hawks -  this group believes that the trade deficit is a threat and that we should discourage imports while using our economic and political might to maximize exports.
  
  
• Strategic manufacturing security proponents - this group believes that maintaining manufacturing industries in the US supersedes any ideals on trade.  They will impose tariffs and import limits in order to protect US manufacturers in strategic industries (e.g. steel, shipbuilding, agriculture, etc).

And finally, there are the political hacks.  Their support of tariffs rests solely on which politicians are supporting them.  They are opportunists who may jump from group to group in order to be on the right side.

So ask yourselves which is(are) your group(s)?  Where do your own internal beliefs and philosophies place you?  Once you've done that, then ask yourself which of these angles is Trump really backing?  What is his real goal here.  Is he really a fair trader?  Is eliminating the trade deficit his real goal?  Or is he just using all of this to ensure that the US maintains a manufacturing base in crucial industries?

[Bigun]

The art of the deal

The one thing that Trump excels at is to greatly expand the discussion.  We are witnessing many different factions now chiming in with different view points from different perspectives, all because of Trump running his mouth about tariffs.

Here are some of those factions:

• The tariff originalists - these are the people who believe that our government should exclusively be funded by tariffs and that the federal income tax should be repealed.
  
  
• Free trade consumers - these are the people who believe that there should be no taxes imposed on American consumers.  This group also has no problem with other nations subsidizing exports since it works out for the consumer's benefit.
  
  
• Fair traders - this group believes in a level playing field where everyone plays by the same set of rules.
  
  
• Trade deficit hawks -  this group believes that the trade deficit is a threat and that we should discourage imports while using our economic and political might to maximize exports.
  
  
• Strategic manufacturing security proponents - this group believes that maintaining manufacturing industries in the US supersedes any ideals on trade.  They will impose tariffs and import limits in order to protect US manufacturers in strategic industries (e.g. steel, shipbuilding, agriculture, etc).

And finally, there are the political hacks.  Their support of tariffs rests solely on which politicians are supporting them.  They are opportunists who may jump from group to group in order to be on the right side.

So ask yourselves which is(are) your group(s)?  Where do your own internal beliefs and philosophies place you?  Once you've done that, then ask yourself which of these angles is Trump really backing?  What is his real goal here.  Is he really a fair trader?  Is eliminating the trade deficit his real goal?  Or is he just using all of this to ensure that the US maintains a manufacturing base in crucial industries?

Unfortunately, no one here wants to discuss anything seriously.