Thread 2...Assassination Attempt Of Pres. Trump [update]

[Sighlass]

I guess that depends on your definition of insignificant At 100 yards, the .223 will shoot a 55-grain bullet at 2,849 ft/s, which is 109 ft/s faster than the 5.56’s 2,740 ft https://www.sportsmans.com/5-56-vs-223-cartridge#:~:text=223%20Remington%20is%20slightly%20faster,ft%2Fs%2C%20with%20the%20.

Your link tested Remington vs Remington... and I don't doubt that is their results... Paul tested Federal and got that the 556 was faster when the quoted speeds on the box said the 223 would be faster. ??? Generally we think of the 556 as being puncher... and yes 100 ft per second does make a difference especially at distances over 150 yards or so. Not so much a difference in this scenario. Paul shot 223 from a 556 bored barrel and got similar results at 100 yards... The 223 even did slightly better in one head to head but admitted it was within the range of close-to-the-same and that other factors might of made the difference. The next head to head the 556 did slightly better (but with one flyer on the 223)...

But we don't even know the caliber used, may of been a 556 or 223? At least I haven't heard. Just AR-15 is what we are given (unless I missed something, if I did, inform me).

So basically we are talking just to be talking ... You think one could of made a difference, I think at that distance, probable not, but even a slight cross wind could of been the difference if we are being honest. Yes even the 556 vs 223 could of been a difference. One of those "Only God Knows" things.

Cheers my friend.

[Sighlass]

He could have brought the gun broke down in his backpack.

Yes, and it worth considering... ARs do break down, and you might lose some center when putting back together.

[Hoodat]

They're saying he bought a 12' ladder (only 12'? Was the roof that low?) at Home Depot on Friday. I assume it was the HD in Bethel Park that is very close to his parents' house, unlike the rifle range at which he reportedly practiced.

A 20' extension ladder would probably collapse to about 12'.  But that would be a long haul to carry a 20' ladder that far.  Does anyone know the distance between his car and the building with the roof that has a slope?

[Sighlass]

They're saying he bought a 12' ladder (only 12'? Was the roof that low?) at Home Depot on Friday. I assume it was the HD in Bethel Park that is very close to his parents' house, unlike the rifle range at which he reportedly practiced.

Yeah, I like my ladder to shoot up a 3-4 feet above climb-ons to roofs (but I am caution now days, I did dumber things as a kid). The kid probable didn't want the overhang to show (or was just cheap to not get longer) ? Who knows, but it was doable as we have seen. If he brought the ladder early (how long before, was it the day of the shooting?)... How was he not seen? So many questions.

[Fishrrman]

From reply 234 above:
"So who was the shooter talking to in the hours, days, and weeks ahead of the event? Who was he meeting with? Did anyone suggest or nudge or urge him to go to the Trump rally in Butler? Did anyone suggest or point out to him the building he eventually used? Was he told at any time to not worry about security?"

This reply is going to go against the grain of just about all the other responses in this thread.

Looking at this Thomas Crooks fellow...



He kinda reminds me of another shooter, almost the same age (although this photo is from a few years earlier):


I remember several years ago, after the Las Vegas Hotel shooter, how extensive investigations couldn't seem to come up with much on the guy.

I also remember posting in this forum at the time that they probably would not find out much, because (for the simple reason) there really wasn't much TO "find out" about him.

In other words, he kept his reasons to himself as he planned and executed his acts. And then he died with them.

So it was with Adam Lanza and the school shooting not far from me in Sandy Hook. Aside from a very few aspects of his personality that came out afterwards, he remains a cypher... a mystery.

So I'll predict (shakily) that it could turn out roughly the same with Crooks.

He pretty much kept to himself in general (no social media, etc.).
He probably plotted the attack on Mr. Trump on his own, and played it "by ear" as he went along. Hence, the confrontations with security at the site... but like one of those Roomba automatic vacuums, each time he "hit a bump" during such encounters, he just worked around them and tried to go a slightly different way.

And... because of the security lapses and general ineptitude of those who should have known better, Crooks kept trying and overcoming those obstacles to finally get up on the roof with his rifle. And take the shot.

So... the fact that they could find nothing of significance on his phone, and perhaps on his computer as well, seems to indicate that he may have taken his motivations to his death with him. We may never know that much more about him.

Sometimes, when nothing seems to "be there"...
... it's because nothing really IS there.

[Smokin Joe]

At this point, we don't even know if the bullets that struck Trump and killed Comperatore came from that gun.

Right. We don't know that only one gun was involved. Finding out otherwise would really change the course of any competent investigation.

[Smokin Joe]

Yes, and it worth considering... ARs do break down, and you might lose some center when putting back together.

You shouldn't. The barrel, bolt, and upper receiver are part of the same unit, and the scope is attached. There should be no change of zero if they are handled carefully.

[240B]

Quite true. The snake may have been in the local or state police - or some federal entity. All possibilities must be explored, but good luck getting the FBI to get to the bottom of it.

In terms of odds, it is much more likely that some element of the FBI was involved in the plot than it is that they will "find the real killer", as OJ famously said. The FBI only exists to perpetuate the 'White Supremacists are the greatest threat' hoax, and to protect itself. The FBI is NOT a friend of America or the American people. They are a unit dedicated only to themselves and their warped agenda. Nothing else.

When I heard the FBI had his phone, the first thought in my mind was, "well, that's the end of that lead".

[corbe]

Right. We don't know that only one gun was involved. Finding out otherwise would really change the course of any competent investigation.

   They tried to sell that $hit~One Gun, One Lone Assassin to US 60 years ago.

   Though LHO was arrested with a gun, I don't believe he fired a shot at anyone that day, including the murder of Officer Tippett. 

   Is Crooks the patsy?

[bigheadfred]

From reply 234 above:
"So who was the shooter talking to in the hours, days, and weeks ahead of the event? Who was he meeting with? Did anyone suggest or nudge or urge him to go to the Trump rally in Butler? Did anyone suggest or point out to him the building he eventually used? Was he told at any time to not worry about security?"

This reply is going to go against the grain of just about all the other responses in this thread.

Looking at this Thomas Crooks fellow...



He kinda reminds me of another shooter, almost the same age (although this photo is from a few years earlier):


I remember several years ago, after the Las Vegas Hotel shooter, how extensive investigations couldn't seem to come up with much on the guy.

I also remember posting in this forum at the time that they probably would not find out much, because (for the simple reason) there really wasn't much TO "find out" about him.

In other words, he kept his reasons to himself as he planned and executed his acts. And then he died with them.

So it was with Adam Lanza and the school shooting not far from me in Sandy Hook. Aside from a very few aspects of his personality that came out afterwards, he remains a cypher... a mystery.

So I'll predict (shakily) that it could turn out roughly the same with Crooks.

He pretty much kept to himself in general (no social media, etc.).
He probably plotted the attack on Mr. Trump on his own, and played it "by ear" as he went along. Hence, the confrontations with security at the site... but like one of those Roomba automatic vacuums, each time he "hit a bump" during such encounters, he just worked around them and tried to go a slightly different way.

And... because of the security lapses and general ineptitude of those who should have known better, Crooks kept trying and overcoming those obstacles to finally get up on the roof with his rifle. And take the shot.

So... the fact that they could find nothing of significance on his phone, and perhaps on his computer as well, seems to indicate that he may have taken his motivations to his death with him. We may never know that much more about him.

Sometimes, when nothing seems to "be there"...
... it's because nothing really IS there.

I don't think people are giving this kid enough credit. He could have scouted the area and determined where he would make his attempt and stashed his rifle close by, probably the day before. He then showed up, wandered around to check where they had security. When he saw his way was open he retrieved his weapon and made his play. If security had been tighter he could have walked away with no one being the wiser.

[goatprairie]

I've been watching and reading everything I could find about this incident for more than 48 hours now and think I have some idea about what took place. If what I think took place is true, you'll see it only here so pay attention.

The people responsible for this set the young man up to be the patsy (hat tip @jafo2010 ) used him to make sure he drew all the attention while the actual pro was on the roof of the building just behind the one the kid was on wearing attire (rifle and all) that blended with the building. When the kid opened up, the pro took one shot (the one that nearly did the job). When the counter snipers opened up on he kid, the pro slid down from his perch, got in his car, and calmly drove away.

Call me anything you want but that's what I think and it fits the MO.

So, people in the Biden admin got all the SS agents to agree to assassinate Trump? And nobody objected or squealed to the media? Really?

[Bigun]

So, people in the Biden admin got all the SS agents to agree to assassinate Trump? And nobody objected or squealed to the media? Really?

Doesn't require everyone. Just a very few would be sufficient if they were in the proper places.

[corbe]

Doesn't require everyone. Just a very few would be sufficient if they were in the proper places.

   Like the Dallas Police Chief changing the Presidential Motorcade Route at the last minute to bring them by the TSD and John Connally insisting on the TradeMart and adamantly stating that Ralph Yarborough sit where the SS had him originally instead of him sitting there.

[Elderberry]

Post
Conversation
MJTruthUltra
@MJTruthUltra
The FBI Just Released More Details Regarding the Trump Assassin

• he went to a shooting range where he was a member, and practiced firing, the day before

• the day of the rally, Crooks went to a Home Depot and purchased a five-foot ladder
—— does that look like a 5ft ladder to you?

• He visited a gun store, purchased 50 rounds of ammunition

• Crooks drove his Hyundai Sonata about an hour north, joining Trump’s rally.
—— He parked the car outside the rally, with an improvised explosive device hidden in the trunk that was wired to a transmitter he carried.

• Investigators believe, he used his newly-bought ladder to scale a nearby building, and opened fire on the former president.

SO….. the dude was carrying a ladder, a rifle, and NOBODY on Trumps Security detail saw him?

[roamer_1]

When I heard the FBI had his phone, the first thought in my mind was, "well, that's the end of that lead".

Technically, probably state jurisdiction, and it is quite likely that a cloned copy of that phone is in the evidence of at least one other agency, and maybe county too.

Digital copy is generally maintained at every step to ensure against tampering - At the very least an M5d count would have been performed - But it is nearly easier to just pull a copy off.

[LMAO]

From reply 234 above:
"So who was the shooter talking to in the hours, days, and weeks ahead of the event? Who was he meeting with? Did anyone suggest or nudge or urge him to go to the Trump rally in Butler? Did anyone suggest or point out to him the building he eventually used? Was he told at any time to not worry about security?"

This reply is going to go against the grain of just about all the other responses in this thread.

Looking at this Thomas Crooks fellow...



He kinda reminds me of another shooter, almost the same age (although this photo is from a few years earlier):


I remember several years ago, after the Las Vegas Hotel shooter, how extensive investigations couldn't seem to come up with much on the guy.

I also remember posting in this forum at the time that they probably would not find out much, because (for the simple reason) there really wasn't much TO "find out" about him.

In other words, he kept his reasons to himself as he planned and executed his acts. And then he died with them.

So it was with Adam Lanza and the school shooting not far from me in Sandy Hook. Aside from a very few aspects of his personality that came out afterwards, he remains a cypher... a mystery.

So I'll predict (shakily) that it could turn out roughly the same with Crooks.

He pretty much kept to himself in general (no social media, etc.).
He probably plotted the attack on Mr. Trump on his own, and played it "by ear" as he went along. Hence, the confrontations with security at the site... but like one of those Roomba automatic vacuums, each time he "hit a bump" during such encounters, he just worked around them and tried to go a slightly different way.

And... because of the security lapses and general ineptitude of those who should have known better, Crooks kept trying and overcoming those obstacles to finally get up on the roof with his rifle. And take the shot.

So... the fact that they could find nothing of significance on his phone, and perhaps on his computer as well, seems to indicate that he may have taken his motivations to his death with him. We may never know that much more about him.

Sometimes, when nothing seems to "be there"...
... it's because nothing really IS there.

Intriguing post


You may be right

[roamer_1]

SO….. the dude was carrying a ladder, a rifle, and NOBODY on Trumps Security detail saw him?

It makes more sense that he staged his gear before the fact.
There is no way all that stuff would pass through the mags that were assuredly set up at the entrance points.

But the day before... Show up in a pickup, get out with a string trimmer and start working around a building... You'd be surprised how easy that is as far as security is concerned...

I have done similar. Now, everybody there knew me - Knew I was a lawn guy (at the time). All the locals would have seen my truck before, I suppose. But the feds and state guys, and the main venue guys didn't know me from Adam - I was there for legit purposes, beefing up their normal golf course crews... Making the place look super sweet before all the beautiful people showed up....

It would have been extraordinarily easy to stash things then.
The day of - Not so much.

Jussayin.

[cato potatoe]

   They tried to sell that $hit~One Gun, One Lone Assassin to US 60 years ago.

   Though LHO was arrested with a gun, I don't believe he fired a shot at anyone that day, including the murder of Officer Tippett. 

   Is Crooks the patsy?

Until a parallel investigation is completed, and solid evidence is presented, every scenario must remain on the table.  We already have media figures trying to police the speech of people who are asking questions.  Next I assume the tech companies will ban users or otherwise censor the discussion online. 

[verga]

Your link tested Remington vs Remington... and I don't doubt that is their results... Paul tested Federal and got that the 556 was faster when the quoted speeds on the box said the 223 would be faster. ??? Generally we think of the 556 as being puncher... and yes 100 ft per second does make a difference especially at distances over 150 yards or so. Not so much a difference in this scenario. Paul shot 223 from a 556 bored barrel and got similar results at 100 yards... The 223 even did slightly better in one head to head but admitted it was within the range of close-to-the-same and that other factors might of made the difference. The next head to head the 556 did slightly better (but with one flyer on the 223)...

But we don't even know the caliber used, may of been a 556 or 223? At least I haven't heard. Just AR-15 is what we are given (unless I missed something, if I did, inform me).

So basically we are talking just to be talking ... You think one could of made a difference, I think at that distance, probable not, but even a slight cross wind could of been the difference if we are being honest. Yes even the 556 vs 223 could of been a difference. One of those "Only God Knows" things.

Cheers my friend.

We are basically in agreement. I would like to know (And we never will) what brand of ammo he was using, the type of scope and if it was bored gred for 5.56, or .223.

[mountaineer]

Hyundai Sonata? All earlier reports and photos referred to a white van that looked to me like a GM product. 

[DCPatriot]

Hyundai Sonata? All earlier reports and photos referred to a white van that looked to me like a GM product. 

When they at first claimed to have found "explosive devices" in the van...1st thing I thought was, well it's only a week or so after the 4th of July holiday weekend. 

And the kid lives an hour away from the Ohio State border where M80's and Cherry Bombs are legal. 

[Smokin Joe]

Hyundai Sonata? All earlier reports and photos referred to a white van that looked to me like a GM product. 

'We're looking for a white man in a white van'

Chief Moose, during the 'Beltway Sniper' incident

(Malvo and accomplice were black and in a blue Oldsmobile)

The view just gets muddier, between the CYA, inherent fustercluck, and not being able to trust the FBI to investigate what might be an inside job at one level or another.
Rather than dispel speculation, this encourages it.

[Hoodat]

Looking at this Thomas Crooks fellow...



He kinda reminds me of another shooter, almost the same age (although this photo is from a few years earlier):

Maybe they're clones.  Just like in that movie, Boys From Brazil.

[DCPatriot]

[Lando Lincoln]

https://youtu.be/aVA7aXOH1pk?si=cd87ivjljNMsRQw6