Author Topic: Ukraine 4  (Read 515732 times)

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1750 on: September 22, 2023, 09:05:57 pm »
RUSSIA’S BLACK SEA COMMANDER ALLEGED DEAD AFTER STRIKE AGAINST FLEET’S HQ

CONSTANTINE ATLAMAZOGLOU  |  SEPTEMBER 22, 2023


Russian Admiral Viktor Sokolov, the commander of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet, has been killed following a missile strike against the fleet’s headquarters in Sevastopol, Crimea, Ukrainian authorities allege according to foreign policy analyst Jessica Berlin, who has been covering the war in Ukraine. There has been no official confirmation from Ukraine or Russia yet.

If confirmed, Adrmial Sokolov will be the highest-profile Russian officer killed in the war so far.

The missile strike took place earlier on Friday. According to eyewitness videos, the headquarters appears to have been struck by multiple Storm Shadow missiles.  .  .

https://www.sandboxx.us/news/russias-black-sea-commander-alleged-dead-after-strike-against-fleets-hq/
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1751 on: September 22, 2023, 09:06:58 pm »
Russia claims that only one missile hit the HQ building.  But the video below shows the building already burning when the second missile hit.


https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1705272408620277986
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1752 on: September 22, 2023, 09:10:28 pm »
'Many Officers' Reported Killed After Strike on Russian HQ Near Kherson

BRENDAN COLE  |  9/20/23 AT 5:54 AM EDT


Russian army officers key to Moscow's war effort in Ukraine were killed following a strike on their military headquarters, a Russian Telegram channel has reported.

The VChK-OGPU outlet, which purports to have inside information from Russian security forces, said that the command post of Russia's 7th Airborne Division located in the occupied part of the southern Ukrainian oblast of Kherson had been hit.

"Many officers died from a targeted strike," said the post, "the exact number of victims has been carefully concealed. At the time of the shelling, the paratroopers had been undergoing daily planning."

The channel said the information was confirmed by Yevgeny Khanin, the chairman of the veterans organization of the 7th Guards Air Assault Division stationed in Novorossiysk, in Russia's Krasnodar region, which lies close to Kherson.  .  .

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-officers-kherson-vchk-ogpu-1828371

@Hoodat

Whoever the staff is of that news outlet,they are truly BOLD men to be reporting this.

Pooty Poot has to be losing his sense of humor about this sort of thing by now,and his only options seem to be to run for his life with all the gold he can steal from the treasury,or fact removal and execution.

This obviously ain't the "old  days" when the Soviet leadership  kept a headlock on every  news outlet.
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Offline Hoodat

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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1754 on: September 22, 2023, 09:17:34 pm »
More video from the 30th Mech Brigade:

from r/UkraineWarVideoReport

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/16plaat/aerial_reconnaissance_of_the_30th_separate/

@Hoodat

Whoever did that was stupid. Kill an enemy soldier,and all the enemy has to so is bury him.

Wound him and let him live so they have to send him back behind the lines for medical treatment. This not only makes the enemy use up vital medical supplies,but it demoralizes the HELL out of the rear echelon troops who are fresh to combat and see themselves in those severely wounded soldiers.

And,after all,severely wounded soldiers in a field hospital are no threat to you,and they ARE a drag on the enemies resources. Use your time and resources to kill or severely wound more of the enemy.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1755 on: September 22, 2023, 09:27:52 pm »
@sneakypete

That can't be helped.  The 30th Mech Brigade simply doesn't like Russians.


« Last Edit: September 22, 2023, 09:28:51 pm by Hoodat »
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1756 on: September 22, 2023, 10:07:21 pm »
@sneakypete

That can't be helped.  The 30th Mech Brigade simply doesn't like Russians.




@Hoodat

I understand that,but if ya wanna win wars,ya gotta think about what you do. It is MUCH better strategically to wound an enemy soldier seriously enough he needs hospitalization that it is to kill him.

This  goes double if you can  manage to would  him seriously enough  he survives,but has to be sent home as no longer physically  suitable  for military service. Things like that tend to lover the fervor of innocent young men who THINK they want to go off to war because it is glorious and they will return as heroes.

And the brutal TRUTH is there is not a Communist system ANYWHERE in the world that gives a damn if their soldiers live or die,end up healthy or end up crippled or disfigured for life.

In the old USSR soldiers with disfiguring wounds or who had lost limbs or eyes were not even allowed to live in Moscow. They were good enough to serve as cannon fodder for ignorant inbred General Officers,but not good enough to represent Communism in the capital of Communism.
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1757 on: September 23, 2023, 07:03:56 am »
@Hoodat

Whoever did that was stupid. Kill an enemy soldier,and all the enemy has to so is bury him.

Wound him and let him live so they have to send him back behind the lines for medical treatment. This not only makes the enemy use up vital medical supplies,but it demoralizes the HELL out of the rear echelon troops who are fresh to combat and see themselves in those severely wounded soldiers.

Except that the Muscovites don't care about their wounded.  They don't even care about their living soldiers.
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1758 on: September 23, 2023, 07:58:01 am »
Join The Reagan Caucus: https://reagancaucus.org/ and the Eisenhower Caucus: https://EisenhowerCaucus.org

Ronald Reagan: “Rather than...talking about putting up a fence, why don’t we work out some recognition of our mutual problems and make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit…earning here they pay taxes here.”

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1759 on: September 23, 2023, 11:18:51 am »
An ~8:20 (~6:15 is about the strike) video regarding the strike on the Black Sea Fleet's HQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFqvb_LvQV0

Two, possibly three missiles hit, as explained in the video. "Suchomimus" is strongly pro-Ukrainian, but is very careful to report what has been confirmed, not credulous of claims.
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If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1760 on: September 23, 2023, 01:40:35 pm »
Except that the Muscovites don't care about their wounded.  They don't even care about their living soldiers.

The do care about them is their Russian rather than if they're just outlying ethnic minorities.  That's why most of the conscripts haven't been actual Russians.  A lot of those young people are doing the same cellphone living schtick our young people are doing.


Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1762 on: September 23, 2023, 05:29:36 pm »
Except that the Muscovites don't care about their wounded.  They don't even care about their living soldiers.

@Timber Rattler

I don't know about now,but in the recent past Soviet Policy was to not allow (obviously) wounded soldiers to live in Moscow.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2023, 05:30:47 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline Timber Rattler

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1763 on: September 24, 2023, 10:04:29 am »
It seems that the Muscovites are the ones quietly pushing for elections in Ukraine through backchannels, so that they can change Zelensky's government that way and facilitate a surrender.

Western officials press Ukraine to hold elections despite war

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/24/ukraine-elections-war-russia-west/

Quote
Despite Russia’s war in Ukraine and a nationwide state of martial law, some Western politicians are pushing the government in Kyiv to hold parliamentary and presidential elections — a prospect that has left many Ukrainian officials scratching their heads.

The proposal — initially floated by Tiny Cox, the Dutch head of the Council of Europe’s Parliamentary Assembly — was also pressed by Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), during a visit to Kyiv last month with Senators Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.) and Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), which otherwise focused on solidifying U.S. assistance and bipartisan support for Ukraine.

Other Republicans have also taken up the cause, including conservative commentators like Tucker Carlson, who falsely accused Zelensky of canceling elections. Ukraine’s constitution prohibits elections under martial law.

Holding free and fair elections in wartime is virtually impossible and also ill-advised, according to Ukrainian officials, election experts and democracy advocates. Roughly one-fifth of Ukraine’s territory is now occupied by Russian forces. Millions of Ukrainians are displaced and many are living outside the country. Tens of thousands of soldiers are deployed to the front.

The pressure to hold elections, despite such obstacles, highlights the constant demand by some in the West that Ukraine prove its commitment to democracy, even though Ukrainians have twice risen up in mass pro-democracy demonstrations — the Orange Revolution of 2003-4 and the Maidan Revolution of 2013-14.

Ukrainian officials say that in order to hold a major vote during wartime, considerable financial, logistical and legal hurdles must be overcome. In private, some say that the prospect is outright impossible, and could provide Moscow security forces with a means to infiltrate and weaken Ukraine from within.

“The Russians are pushing for this through their secret channels,” a Ukrainian official in the security apparatus said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject. “There is no situation in which it is possible to have a democratic election during the war.”

EXCERPT
aka "nasty degenerate SOB," "worst of the worst at Free Republic," "Garbage Troll," "Neocon Warmonger," "Filthy Piece of Trash," "damn $#%$#@!," "Silly f'er," "POS," "war pig," "neocon scumbag," "insignificant little ankle nipper," "@ss-clown," "neocuck," "termite," "Uniparty Deep stater," "Never Trump sack of dog feces," "avid Bidenista," "filthy Ukrainian," "war whore," "fricking chump," "psychopathic POS," "depraved SOB," "Never Trump Moron," "Lazarus," and "sock puppet."

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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1764 on: September 24, 2023, 10:50:59 am »
It seems that the Muscovites are the ones quietly pushing for elections in Ukraine through backchannels, so that they can change Zelensky's government that way and facilitate a surrender.

Western officials press Ukraine to hold elections despite war

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/24/ukraine-elections-war-russia-west/
...

A somewhat similar/relevant thread from several weeks ago, https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,510813.0.html . Ukraine-haters hope for a Chamberlainesque Ukrainian government that will surrender to Putin whatever he wants in exchange for "peace in our time". It worked so well for the Czechs 85 years ago.
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If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1765 on: September 24, 2023, 11:12:13 am »
A somewhat similar/relevant thread from several weeks ago, https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,510813.0.html . Ukraine-haters hope for a Chamberlainesque Ukrainian government that will surrender to Putin whatever he wants in exchange for "peace in our time". It worked so well for the Czechs 85 years ago.

An even more similar history between Germany and Yugoslavia in 1941.  The Yugoslavs had a pro-German government in place (like Yanukovych in Ukraine).  That government was overthrown and replaced with one more neutral (like Ukraine's Revolution of Dignity in 2014).  Germany did not take well to that and chose to invade Yugoslavia that same year (as did Putin with Ukraine).
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1766 on: September 24, 2023, 12:03:44 pm »
It seems that the Muscovites are the ones quietly pushing for elections in Ukraine through backchannels, so that they can change Zelensky's government that way and facilitate a surrender.

Western officials press Ukraine to hold elections despite war

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/24/ukraine-elections-war-russia-west/

EXCERPT

Zelenskyy should remind these Western officials that Churchill suspended UK elections during WWII, also at a time during which his nation was undergoing an existential fight, and that if it was good enough for the UK, it's good enough for Ukraine.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1767 on: September 24, 2023, 02:04:18 pm »
Zelenskyy should remind these Western officials that Churchill suspended UK elections during WWII, also at a time during which his nation was undergoing an existential fight, and that if it was good enough for the UK, it's good enough for Ukraine.
:shrug:

Should FDR or Lincoln have not had their elections? Not so sure I agree there. Anyway, I think Zelensky would win handily.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1768 on: September 24, 2023, 02:12:38 pm »
:shrug:

Should FDR or Lincoln have not had their elections? Not so sure I agree there. Anyway, I think Zelensky would win handily.

FDR wasn't in an existential fight; Lincoln suspended other Constitutional rights during the Civil war.


Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1769 on: September 24, 2023, 02:16:20 pm »
FDR wasn't in an existential fight; Lincoln suspended other Constitutional rights during the Civil war.

Actually Lincoln suspended habeus corpus I believe, which is allowed as per the constitution in times of rebellion/invasion. But he still had an election I believe. But even during our own existential war, the Revolution, we had a continental congress which was elected. I understand what you're saying but also sort of playing devil's advocate. I remember reading that first casualty of war is liberty, so there is some grey area that makes me uncomfortable.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1770 on: September 24, 2023, 02:26:38 pm »
It seems that the Muscovites are the ones quietly pushing for elections in Ukraine through backchannels, so that they can change Zelensky's government that way and facilitate a surrender.

Western officials press Ukraine to hold elections despite war

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/24/ukraine-elections-war-russia-west/

EXCERPT

Quote
The proposal — initially floated by Tiny Cox, the Dutch head of the Council of Europe’s Parliamentary Assembly — was also pressed by Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.)

WTF happened to Lady Lindsey? Does someone have video tape  of him with  an  8 year old boy,or something similar?
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1771 on: September 24, 2023, 02:45:28 pm »
WTF happened to Lady Lindsey? Does someone have video tape  of him with  an  8 year old boy,or something similar?

He/she changes positions almost daily.
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1772 on: September 24, 2023, 03:36:08 pm »
Actually Lincoln suspended habeus corpus I believe, which is allowed as per the constitution in times of rebellion/invasion. But he still had an election I believe. But even during our own existential war, the Revolution, we had a continental congress which was elected. I understand what you're saying but also sort of playing devil's advocate. I remember reading that first casualty of war is liberty, so there is some grey area that makes me uncomfortable.

Then it should be sufficient that it be left up to the judgment of each leader.

Personally, I find it utterly irrational to demand that a country that has foreign invaders on its soil stop and spend the time and money to run a modern-day election, and to subject itself to the full panoply of election-interference those same foreign invaders have demonstrated in other countries.

That is the epitome of the phrase penny-wise, pound-foolish.


Online DB

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1773 on: September 24, 2023, 03:45:24 pm »
Actually Lincoln suspended habeus corpus I believe, which is allowed as per the constitution in times of rebellion/invasion. But he still had an election I believe. But even during our own existential war, the Revolution, we had a continental congress which was elected. I understand what you're saying but also sort of playing devil's advocate. I remember reading that first casualty of war is liberty, so there is some grey area that makes me uncomfortable.

Lincoln had an election and counted votes including the south??? I seriously doubt that.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1774 on: September 24, 2023, 05:08:23 pm »
Actually Lincoln suspended habeus corpus I believe, which is allowed as per the constitution in times of rebellion/invasion. But he still had an election I believe.

An election where Southern States (i.e. opposition States) were awarded zero electoral votes.  If elections were held in Ukraine, and only areas free of Russian troops were allowed to participate, Zelenskiy critics would be screaming that it shouldn't count since Ukrainians in occupied Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, Kherson, and Crimea couldn't vote.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1775 on: September 24, 2023, 06:32:03 pm »
:shrug:

Should FDR or Lincoln have not had their elections? Not so sure I agree there. Anyway, I think Zelensky would win handily.
Lincoln's election during the war was a shoo-in, considering the voting blocs that he lost were either in rebellion or militarily occupied (MD) by the Union. He did suspend Habeas Corpus, and among those rounded up and imprisoned was Francis Scott Key's grandson, ironically imprisoned in Ft. McHenry.

in 1860:
Jere's your gray area in 1864:

In FDR's case, despite the home front effort, the war was not on these shores (Hawaii was not a State, nor was Alaska), so there was little opportunity for some sort of shenanigans in areas where combat was actively taking place on the home front. Even C.O.s and other pacifists were generally viewed with suspicion (Desmond Doss broke that mold).

Is Ukraine supposed to depend on mail-in-ballots? How will those who left the country, voluntarily or otherwise, vote? Or will the vote be confined to  those who remain, outside of Russian occupied areas, (otherwise, how would you know a ballot was cast without duress and by the right person?)

Seriously, I think the analogy with Britain (which was subject to bombing, V1 and V2 strikes) is more apt.

« Last Edit: September 24, 2023, 07:03:42 pm by Smokin Joe »
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1776 on: September 24, 2023, 07:49:55 pm »
Lincoln's election during the war was a shoo-in, considering the voting blocs that he lost were either in rebellion or militarily occupied (MD) by the Union. He did suspend Habeas Corpus, and among those rounded up and imprisoned was Francis Scott Key's grandson, ironically imprisoned in Ft. McHenry.

in 1860:
Jere's your gray area in 1864:

In FDR's case, despite the home front effort, the war was not on these shores (Hawaii was not a State, nor was Alaska), so there was little opportunity for some sort of shenanigans in areas where combat was actively taking place on the home front. Even C.O.s and other pacifists were generally viewed with suspicion (Desmond Doss broke that mold).

Is Ukraine supposed to depend on mail-in-ballots? How will those who left the country, voluntarily or otherwise, vote? Or will the vote be confined to  those who remain, outside of Russian occupied areas, (otherwise, how would you know a ballot was cast without duress and by the right person?)

Seriously, I think the analogy with Britain (which was subject to bombing, V1 and V2 strikes) is more apt.

Yeah… Lincoln actually did other like threatening to jail a ussc Justice and arresting an entire state legislature. He still had elections heh.

Online berdie

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1777 on: September 24, 2023, 08:12:16 pm »
I'm just a basic voter. If bombs are being thrown around...it may make me think twice. Sooo, the Russian voters will be paid to vote. If there is, indeed, a constitutional ability to delay a vote in Ukraine I don't see a problem.

Outside of the Civil War we have been very blessed.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1778 on: September 24, 2023, 09:04:52 pm »
An election where Southern States (i.e. opposition States) were awarded zero electoral votes.  If elections were held in Ukraine, and only areas free of Russian troops were allowed to participate, Zelenskiy critics would be screaming that it shouldn't count since Ukrainians in occupied Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, Kherson, and Crimea couldn't vote.

Yup.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1779 on: September 24, 2023, 09:06:41 pm »
Yeah… Lincoln actually did other like threatening to jail a ussc Justice and arresting an entire state legislature. He still had elections heh.
Yep. His election though, did not include the states which were most opposed. Lincoln got 4 (yep, four) votes in the county I grew up in in MD in 1860. Those folks were asked to leave.
The legislature is more thoroughly discussed here: https://msa.maryland.gov/msa/stagser/s1259/121/7590/html/0000.html  Frankly, that is a version sanitized by the victors in that conflict, but it hits the high points.
Maryland, technically not a state in rebellion, and therefore not covered by the Emancipation Proclamation, still had slaves at the end of the war (well, someone had to serve all those Yankee generals). MD was not 'freed' from the military occupation until it had adopted an entirely new Constitution (post bellum).
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1780 on: September 24, 2023, 09:45:34 pm »
Cool!  Now that we've solved the War Between the States, let's take a look at Ukraine....
« Last Edit: September 24, 2023, 09:46:40 pm by Cyber Liberty »
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1781 on: September 24, 2023, 09:54:06 pm »
Cool!  Now that we've solved the War Between the States, let's take a look at Ukraine....
We were discussing a prominent analog to the election question in Ukraine, and why it was inappropriate. Back to the land of Cyrillic text...
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1782 on: September 25, 2023, 12:21:15 am »
And this is just Izyum, small settlement
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists

Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1783 on: September 25, 2023, 10:58:08 am »
Join The Reagan Caucus: https://reagancaucus.org/ and the Eisenhower Caucus: https://EisenhowerCaucus.org

Ronald Reagan: “Rather than...talking about putting up a fence, why don’t we work out some recognition of our mutual problems and make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit…earning here they pay taxes here.”

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1784 on: September 25, 2023, 11:05:01 am »
Cool!  Now that we've solved the War Between the States, let's take a look at Ukraine....

Maybe a Re-Fighting the War Between the States thread could be started in the General Discussion or History forum and the posts in this thread about that topic Merged into the Re-Fighting ... thread?
I am not and never have been a leftist.

If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1785 on: September 25, 2023, 11:19:24 am »

Offline Kamaji

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1787 on: September 25, 2023, 03:15:35 pm »
Maybe a Re-Fighting the War Between the States thread could be started in the General Discussion or History forum and the posts in this thread about that topic Merged into the Re-Fighting ... thread?

Every time we did that it got really ugly, so I hope not.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1788 on: September 25, 2023, 05:50:07 pm »
The horror of Putin's war laid bare: Wounded Ukrainian soldiers are brutalised in counter-offensive to claw back captured Bakhmut from Russia - as barbaric invasion grinds on

Soldiers suffered life-changing injuries during a push for Bakhmut
The city was captured by occupying Russian forces in May
Ukraine is expending huge amounts of resources to take the key city back

By PERKIN AMALARAJ
25 September 2023

Ukraine's soldiers have been brutalised during a major counteroffensive to take back the key captured city of Bakhmut.

New photos show the life-changing injuries suffered by battalions tasked with taking back the city.

Wounded soldiers from the 10th Mountain Assault Bridage, known as the 'Edelveys', were seen barely patched up following treatment in the field, with many of the brigade's fighters still covered in the dirt from the counteroffensive push.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12559379/The-horror-Putins-war-laid-bare-Wounded-Ukrainian-soldiers-brutalised-counter-offensive-claw-captured-Bakhmut-Russia-barbaric-invasion-grinds-on.html

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1789 on: September 25, 2023, 05:51:39 pm »
Ukrainian troops 'break through Russian defenses in key battleground'

By CHRIS JEWERS
25 September 2023

Ukraine's forces have broken through Russian defenses in the key town of Verbove, according to Kyiv's general leading the country's counteroffensive. Oleksandr Tarnavskiy told US media that the advance was still underway, in the latest indication that Ukraine is making in-roads on the southern front. 'On the left flank (near the village of Verbove) we have a breakthrough, and we continue to advance further,' he told CNN in an interview released Friday.

Progress had been 'not as fast as it was expected - not like in the movies about the Second World War,' he added, but said it was key 'not to lose this initiative. And, well, not to lose it in practice, with actions.' The reported breakthrough came as Kyiv said that senior Russian navy commanders had been among dozens killed or wounded in a missile attack on Moscow's Black Sea Fleet headquarters in Crimea.

A Ukrainian military source told the BBC the attack on Sevastopol was carried out using Storm Shadow missiles, which are supplied by Britain and France . Ukraine's army said the strike had happened during 'a meeting of the Russian navy's leadership'. Kyiv's intelligence chief Kyrylo Budanov said the attack killed 'at least nine people', including generals, in comments to Voice of America. 'The details of the attack will be revealed as soon as possible and the result is dozens of dead and wounded occupants, including senior fleet commanders,' the Ukrainian army said.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/galleries/article-12557849/Ukrainian-troops-break-Russian-defenses-key-battleground.html

Offline Elderberry

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1790 on: September 25, 2023, 06:35:49 pm »
Russian Black Sea fleet commander killed in Crimea, Ukraine claims

The Guardian by Pjotr Sauer 9/25/2023

Ukrainian military says attack that apparently killed Viktor Sokolov was timed to coincide with meeting of naval officials

Ukraine has claimed it killed Adm Viktor Sokolov, the commander of Russia’s Black Sea fleet, along with 33 other officers, in one of Kyiv’s boldest attacks yet on the occupied peninsula of Crimea.

The Ukrainian military said Friday’s attack on the headquarters of Russia’s Black Sea fleet in Sevastopol was timed to coincide with a meeting of naval officials.

“After the strike on the headquarters of the Russian Black Sea fleet, 34 officers died, including the commander of the Russian Black Sea fleet. Another 105 occupiers were wounded. The headquarters building cannot be restored,” the special forces said on the Telegram messaging app.

The Russian defence ministry has not yet commented on Ukraine’s claim. Moscow has previously confirmed Ukraine’s attack but said that one serviceman was missing as a result of the attack.

More: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/25/russian-black-sea-fleet-commander-killed-in-crimea-ukraine-claims

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1791 on: September 25, 2023, 07:06:37 pm »
Either Ukraine got every-planet-in-the-solar-system-lined-up lucky, or Ukraine had rather exact information about the meeting location, time, and attendants. Two or three missiles hit the building, collapsing a large part of it. Losing 30-35 very senior officers at one time like this would be a significant blow to any navy, and not just at the fleet level.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2023, 07:07:38 pm by PeteS in CA »
I am not and never have been a leftist.

If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1792 on: September 25, 2023, 07:10:39 pm »
Let the Chinese have California.
I was wondering who they were saving all those natural resources for.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline ScottinVA

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1793 on: September 25, 2023, 07:20:17 pm »
Let the Chinese have California.

Not all of California.  The north state is made up of good people who hate that POS gaggle of progs down in Sacramento.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1794 on: September 25, 2023, 07:22:22 pm »
Either Ukraine got every-planet-in-the-solar-system-lined-up lucky, or Ukraine had rather exact information about the meeting location, time, and attendants. Two or three missiles hit the building, collapsing a large part of it. Losing 30-35 very senior officers at one time like this would be a significant blow to any navy, and not just at the fleet level.

@PeteS in CA

AND.......,this is NOT the first time the Kremlin has lost VERY senior officers in missile/drone strikes.

Something tells me there are Soviet citizens working  with  the Ukrainians to see the Soviet military defeated,and the Soviet system overthrown.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1795 on: September 25, 2023, 07:22:38 pm »
Either Ukraine got every-planet-in-the-solar-system-lined-up lucky, or Ukraine had rather exact information about the meeting location, time, and attendants.

Seeing how Sevastopol is Ukrainian territory, it is not surprising they would know.

There is a photo somewhere of someone holding up a piece of paper saying "Крим – це Україна" (Crimea is Ukraine) with the HQ building burning in the background.  Will try to find it.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1796 on: September 25, 2023, 10:27:04 pm »
Russians tortured some Ukrainians to death, raped women aged 19-83, UN commission finds

Oksana Zhitnyuk  |  25.09.2023, 16:53


Russian soldiers tortured Ukrainians so brutally that it led to the death of some victims, and forced relatives to listen as they raped women, the head of the Independent International Commission of Inquiry, Erik Møse, stated at the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva, Reuters reports.

He noted that his team had collected additional evidence indicating that the use of torture by the Russian military in areas under their control was "widespread and systematic."

"In some cases, torture was inflicted with such brutality that it caused the death of the victim," he said.

In particular, Russian soldiers committed sexual violence against women aged 19 to 83 in the temporarily occupied parts of Kherson Oblast, the commission found.  .  .

https://news.liga.net/en/politics/news/komissiya-oon-nekotoryh-ukraintsev-rossiyane-pytali-do-smerti-nasilovali-jenschin-19-83-let
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1798 on: September 25, 2023, 10:40:17 pm »
Explosion in Saint Petersburg - Part of the city without power

KATERYNA SEROHINA  |  SEPTEMBER 24, 2023 - 22:55




ST. PETERSBURG, SUN - In the Russian city of St. Petersburg, there were reports of an explosion sound. Following this, residents of the city began to report a mass power outage in the Pushkin district, according to "Fontanka."

"In Shushary, there is practically no electricity. First of May, Pushkinska, Valday streets, and Vitebsky Avenue are completely without electricity. Traffic lights and stores are not working. There is a traffic jam at the entrance," a reader wrote.

Locals who called emergency services were told that restoration work would be completed late at night.  .  .

https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/explosion-in-saint-petersburg-part-of-the-1695584708.html
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 4
« Reply #1799 on: September 25, 2023, 10:48:24 pm »
Russia destroys landmark Odesa Hotel

If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-