Ukraine 4

[Hoodat]

RUSSIA’S BLACK SEA COMMANDER ALLEGED DEAD AFTER STRIKE AGAINST FLEET’S HQ

CONSTANTINE ATLAMAZOGLOU  |  SEPTEMBER 22, 2023

Russian Admiral Viktor Sokolov, the commander of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet, has been killed following a missile strike against the fleet’s headquarters in Sevastopol, Crimea, Ukrainian authorities allege according to foreign policy analyst Jessica Berlin, who has been covering the war in Ukraine. There has been no official confirmation from Ukraine or Russia yet.

If confirmed, Adrmial Sokolov will be the highest-profile Russian officer killed in the war so far.

The missile strike took place earlier on Friday. According to eyewitness videos, the headquarters appears to have been struck by multiple Storm Shadow missiles.  .  .

https://www.sandboxx.us/news/russias-black-sea-commander-alleged-dead-after-strike-against-fleets-hq/

[Hoodat]

Russia claims that only one missile hit the HQ building.  But the video below shows the building already burning when the second missile hit.

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1705272408620277986

[sneakypete]

'Many Officers' Reported Killed After Strike on Russian HQ Near Kherson

BRENDAN COLE  |  9/20/23 AT 5:54 AM EDT

Russian army officers key to Moscow's war effort in Ukraine were killed following a strike on their military headquarters, a Russian Telegram channel has reported.

The VChK-OGPU outlet, which purports to have inside information from Russian security forces, said that the command post of Russia's 7th Airborne Division located in the occupied part of the southern Ukrainian oblast of Kherson had been hit.

"Many officers died from a targeted strike," said the post, "the exact number of victims has been carefully concealed. At the time of the shelling, the paratroopers had been undergoing daily planning."

The channel said the information was confirmed by Yevgeny Khanin, the chairman of the veterans organization of the 7th Guards Air Assault Division stationed in Novorossiysk, in Russia's Krasnodar region, which lies close to Kherson.  .  .

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-officers-kherson-vchk-ogpu-1828371

@Hoodat

Whoever the staff is of that news outlet,they are truly BOLD men to be reporting this.

Pooty Poot has to be losing his sense of humor about this sort of thing by now,and his only options seem to be to run for his life with all the gold he can steal from the treasury,or fact removal and execution.

This obviously ain't the "old  days" when the Soviet leadership  kept a headlock on every  news outlet.

[Hoodat]

More video from the 30th Mech Brigade:

from r/UkraineWarVideoReport

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/16plaat/aerial_reconnaissance_of_the_30th_separate/

[sneakypete]

More video from the 30th Mech Brigade:

from r/UkraineWarVideoReport

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/16plaat/aerial_reconnaissance_of_the_30th_separate/

@Hoodat

Whoever did that was stupid. Kill an enemy soldier,and all the enemy has to so is bury him.

Wound him and let him live so they have to send him back behind the lines for medical treatment. This not only makes the enemy use up vital medical supplies,but it demoralizes the HELL out of the rear echelon troops who are fresh to combat and see themselves in those severely wounded soldiers.

And,after all,severely wounded soldiers in a field hospital are no threat to you,and they ARE a drag on the enemies resources. Use your time and resources to kill or severely wound more of the enemy.

[Hoodat]

@sneakypete

That can't be helped.  The 30th Mech Brigade simply doesn't like Russians.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete

That can't be helped.  The 30th Mech Brigade simply doesn't like Russians.

@Hoodat

I understand that,but if ya wanna win wars,ya gotta think about what you do. It is MUCH better strategically to wound an enemy soldier seriously enough he needs hospitalization that it is to kill him.

This  goes double if you can  manage to would  him seriously enough  he survives,but has to be sent home as no longer physically  suitable  for military service. Things like that tend to lover the fervor of innocent young men who THINK they want to go off to war because it is glorious and they will return as heroes.

And the brutal TRUTH is there is not a Communist system ANYWHERE in the world that gives a damn if their soldiers live or die,end up healthy or end up crippled or disfigured for life.

In the old USSR soldiers with disfiguring wounds or who had lost limbs or eyes were not even allowed to live in Moscow. They were good enough to serve as cannon fodder for ignorant inbred General Officers,but not good enough to represent Communism in the capital of Communism.

[Timber Rattler]

@Hoodat

Whoever did that was stupid. Kill an enemy soldier,and all the enemy has to so is bury him.

Wound him and let him live so they have to send him back behind the lines for medical treatment. This not only makes the enemy use up vital medical supplies,but it demoralizes the HELL out of the rear echelon troops who are fresh to combat and see themselves in those severely wounded soldiers.

Except that the Muscovites don't care about their wounded.  They don't even care about their living soldiers.

[kevindavis007]

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1705531813119095173

[PeteS in CA]

An ~8:20 (~6:15 is about the strike) video regarding the strike on the Black Sea Fleet's HQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFqvb_LvQV0

Two, possibly three missiles hit, as explained in the video. "Suchomimus" is strongly pro-Ukrainian, but is very careful to report what has been confirmed, not credulous of claims.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Except that the Muscovites don't care about their wounded.  They don't even care about their living soldiers.

The do care about them is their Russian rather than if they're just outlying ethnic minorities.  That's why most of the conscripts haven't been actual Russians.  A lot of those young people are doing the same cellphone living schtick our young people are doing.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

More video from the 30th Mech Brigade:

from r/UkraineWarVideoReport

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/16plaat/aerial_reconnaissance_of_the_30th_separate/

That's actually sickening.

[sneakypete]

Except that the Muscovites don't care about their wounded.  They don't even care about their living soldiers.

@Timber Rattler

I don't know about now,but in the recent past Soviet Policy was to not allow (obviously) wounded soldiers to live in Moscow.

[Timber Rattler]

It seems that the Muscovites are the ones quietly pushing for elections in Ukraine through backchannels, so that they can change Zelensky's government that way and facilitate a surrender.

Western officials press Ukraine to hold elections despite war

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/24/ukraine-elections-war-russia-west/

Despite Russia’s war in Ukraine and a nationwide state of martial law, some Western politicians are pushing the government in Kyiv to hold parliamentary and presidential elections — a prospect that has left many Ukrainian officials scratching their heads.

The proposal — initially floated by Tiny Cox, the Dutch head of the Council of Europe’s Parliamentary Assembly — was also pressed by Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), during a visit to Kyiv last month with Senators Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.) and Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), which otherwise focused on solidifying U.S. assistance and bipartisan support for Ukraine.

Other Republicans have also taken up the cause, including conservative commentators like Tucker Carlson, who falsely accused Zelensky of canceling elections. Ukraine’s constitution prohibits elections under martial law.

Holding free and fair elections in wartime is virtually impossible and also ill-advised, according to Ukrainian officials, election experts and democracy advocates. Roughly one-fifth of Ukraine’s territory is now occupied by Russian forces. Millions of Ukrainians are displaced and many are living outside the country. Tens of thousands of soldiers are deployed to the front.

The pressure to hold elections, despite such obstacles, highlights the constant demand by some in the West that Ukraine prove its commitment to democracy, even though Ukrainians have twice risen up in mass pro-democracy demonstrations — the Orange Revolution of 2003-4 and the Maidan Revolution of 2013-14.

Ukrainian officials say that in order to hold a major vote during wartime, considerable financial, logistical and legal hurdles must be overcome. In private, some say that the prospect is outright impossible, and could provide Moscow security forces with a means to infiltrate and weaken Ukraine from within.

“The Russians are pushing for this through their secret channels,” a Ukrainian official in the security apparatus said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject. “There is no situation in which it is possible to have a democratic election during the war.”

EXCERPT

[PeteS in CA]

It seems that the Muscovites are the ones quietly pushing for elections in Ukraine through backchannels, so that they can change Zelensky's government that way and facilitate a surrender.

Western officials press Ukraine to hold elections despite war

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/24/ukraine-elections-war-russia-west/
...

A somewhat similar/relevant thread from several weeks ago, https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,510813.0.html . Ukraine-haters hope for a Chamberlainesque Ukrainian government that will surrender to Putin whatever he wants in exchange for "peace in our time". It worked so well for the Czechs 85 years ago.

[Hoodat]

A somewhat similar/relevant thread from several weeks ago, https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,510813.0.html . Ukraine-haters hope for a Chamberlainesque Ukrainian government that will surrender to Putin whatever he wants in exchange for "peace in our time". It worked so well for the Czechs 85 years ago.

An even more similar history between Germany and Yugoslavia in 1941.  The Yugoslavs had a pro-German government in place (like Yanukovych in Ukraine).  That government was overthrown and replaced with one more neutral (like Ukraine's Revolution of Dignity in 2014).  Germany did not take well to that and chose to invade Yugoslavia that same year (as did Putin with Ukraine).

[Kamaji]

It seems that the Muscovites are the ones quietly pushing for elections in Ukraine through backchannels, so that they can change Zelensky's government that way and facilitate a surrender.

Western officials press Ukraine to hold elections despite war

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/24/ukraine-elections-war-russia-west/

EXCERPT

Zelenskyy should remind these Western officials that Churchill suspended UK elections during WWII, also at a time during which his nation was undergoing an existential fight, and that if it was good enough for the UK, it's good enough for Ukraine.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Zelenskyy should remind these Western officials that Churchill suspended UK elections during WWII, also at a time during which his nation was undergoing an existential fight, and that if it was good enough for the UK, it's good enough for Ukraine.

Should FDR or Lincoln have not had their elections? Not so sure I agree there. Anyway, I think Zelensky would win handily.

[Kamaji]

Should FDR or Lincoln have not had their elections? Not so sure I agree there. Anyway, I think Zelensky would win handily.

FDR wasn't in an existential fight; Lincoln suspended other Constitutional rights during the Civil war.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

FDR wasn't in an existential fight; Lincoln suspended other Constitutional rights during the Civil war.

Actually Lincoln suspended habeus corpus I believe, which is allowed as per the constitution in times of rebellion/invasion. But he still had an election I believe. But even during our own existential war, the Revolution, we had a continental congress which was elected. I understand what you're saying but also sort of playing devil's advocate. I remember reading that first casualty of war is liberty, so there is some grey area that makes me uncomfortable.

[sneakypete]

It seems that the Muscovites are the ones quietly pushing for elections in Ukraine through backchannels, so that they can change Zelensky's government that way and facilitate a surrender.

Western officials press Ukraine to hold elections despite war

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/24/ukraine-elections-war-russia-west/

EXCERPT

The proposal — initially floated by Tiny Cox, the Dutch head of the Council of Europe’s Parliamentary Assembly — was also pressed by Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.)

WTF happened to Lady Lindsey? Does someone have video tape  of him with  an  8 year old boy,or something similar?

[Cyber Liberty]

WTF happened to Lady Lindsey? Does someone have video tape  of him with  an  8 year old boy,or something similar?

He/she changes positions almost daily.

[Kamaji]

Actually Lincoln suspended habeus corpus I believe, which is allowed as per the constitution in times of rebellion/invasion. But he still had an election I believe. But even during our own existential war, the Revolution, we had a continental congress which was elected. I understand what you're saying but also sort of playing devil's advocate. I remember reading that first casualty of war is liberty, so there is some grey area that makes me uncomfortable.

Then it should be sufficient that it be left up to the judgment of each leader.

Personally, I find it utterly irrational to demand that a country that has foreign invaders on its soil stop and spend the time and money to run a modern-day election, and to subject itself to the full panoply of election-interference those same foreign invaders have demonstrated in other countries.

That is the epitome of the phrase penny-wise, pound-foolish.

[DB]

Actually Lincoln suspended habeus corpus I believe, which is allowed as per the constitution in times of rebellion/invasion. But he still had an election I believe. But even during our own existential war, the Revolution, we had a continental congress which was elected. I understand what you're saying but also sort of playing devil's advocate. I remember reading that first casualty of war is liberty, so there is some grey area that makes me uncomfortable.

Lincoln had an election and counted votes including the south??? I seriously doubt that.

[Hoodat]

Actually Lincoln suspended habeus corpus I believe, which is allowed as per the constitution in times of rebellion/invasion. But he still had an election I believe.

An election where Southern States (i.e. opposition States) were awarded zero electoral votes.  If elections were held in Ukraine, and only areas free of Russian troops were allowed to participate, Zelenskiy critics would be screaming that it shouldn't count since Ukrainians in occupied Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, Kherson, and Crimea couldn't vote.