The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: Emjay on January 26, 2018, 05:06:42 am
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Texas Senator Ted Cruz is a firm “No,†regarding the amnesty giveaway.
“I do not believe we should be granting a path to citizenship to anybody here illegally,†Cruz told reporters, according to Bloomberg. “Doing so is inconsistent with the promises we made to the men and women who elected us.â€
“For some reason that to me is utterly inexplicable, we see Republicans falling all over themselves to gallop to the left of [former President] Obama in a way that is contrary to the promises made to the voters who elected us,†he added.
https://www.redstate.com/sweetie15/2018/01/25/ted-cruz-trumps-amnesty-compromise-forget/ (https://www.redstate.com/sweetie15/2018/01/25/ted-cruz-trumps-amnesty-compromise-forget/)
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If Ted don't like it, I don't like it.
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Cruz is exactly correct.
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Cruz is exactly correct.
Yes he is. If Ted says no then I believe we can get what is right. No amnesty......
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Yeah, let's keep chain migration, that is as many as 1.3 million new potential citizens a year. That's really using one's thinking cap, way to go Cruz. Well, if one wants to give out virtually unlimited green cards, what does one expect?
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states#CurrentHistoricalNumbers (https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states#CurrentHistoricalNumbers)
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/dick-durbin-trump-holding-dreamers-hostage-with-immigration-plan/article/2647132 (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/dick-durbin-trump-holding-dreamers-hostage-with-immigration-plan/article/2647132)
And so do the Democrats reject it.
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Cruz is exactly correct.
No he's not....
“Doing so is inconsistent with the promises we made to the men and women who elected us.â€
Who's the "we" he speaks of or does he have a mouse in his pocket? From what I can see there are a fair number of GOP'ers under the control of Chamber Of Cheap Labor who have been promising open borders for years. What sort of magic voodoo does Ted suggest to get these dopes to go fully into his camp?
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No he's not....
“Doing so is inconsistent with the promises we made to the men and women who elected us.â€
Who's the "we" he speaks of or does he have a mouse in his pocket? From what I can see there are a fair number of GOP'ers under the control of Chamber Of Cheap Labor who have been promising open borders for years. What sort of magic voodoo does Ted suggest to get these dopes to go fully into his camp?
I don't know enough about the details of the proposal to be sure if it is a good thing or not, but Ted Cruz knows exactly.
He's stood with Trump pretty loyally until now and I don't think he would say this unless he was totally sure it was the wrong thing to do.
It may take friendly persuasion.
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Yeah, let's keep chain migration, that is as many as 1.3 million new potential citizens a year. That's really using one's thinking cap, way to go Cruz. Well, if one wants to give out virtually unlimited green cards, what does one expect?
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states#CurrentHistoricalNumbers (https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states#CurrentHistoricalNumbers)
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/dick-durbin-trump-holding-dreamers-hostage-with-immigration-plan/article/2647132 (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/dick-durbin-trump-holding-dreamers-hostage-with-immigration-plan/article/2647132)
And so do the Democrats reject it.
I don't pay attention to you after the name Ted Cruz is mentioned.
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Yes he is. If Ted says no then I believe we can get what is right. No amnesty......
I'd love to know exactly what kind of bill Ted would support. We'll find out soon, that's for sure.
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Cruz is such a phony, and he plays his followers for fools. In the real world we are going to have
to make a deal with the anti-American Marxists on migration. If we can get the wall, end chain
migration and get a merit based system I will take the deal.
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:cheerlead: Red State, well, who is surprised, Cruz and the Democrats are rejecting it. Say hello to 1.3 million migrants to come in every year with chain migration, no wall, no voting for better security.
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Cruz is such a phony, and he plays his followers for fools. In the real world we are going to have
to make a deal with the anti-American Marxists on migration. If we can can the wall, end chain
migration and a merit based system I will take the deal.
Ted Cruz is the one Senator I truly trust. He's the smartest guy in the Senate and the most conservative.
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:cheerlead: Red State, well, who is surprised, Cruz and the Democrats are rejecting it. Say hello to 1.3 million migrants to come in every year with chain migration, no wall, no voting for better security.
Red State is a mixed bag these days and they can infuriate me at times, but in spite of the other stuff they said in the article (which, by the way, I did not like or quote), they were directly quoting Ted Cruz.
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Ted Cruz is the one Senator I truly trust. He's the smartest guy in the Senate and the most conservative.
Cruz is a self serving con man.
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I don't know enough about the details of the proposal to be sure if it is a good thing or not, but Ted Cruz knows exactly.
He's stood with Trump pretty loyally until now and I don't think he would say this unless he was totally sure it was the wrong thing to do.
It may take friendly persuasion.
Who the hell says he knows anything? Ted's a hard liner on this issue and that makes for fine Right wing porn, but he doesn't tell anyone how he is going to get his ideas passed through congress. Even if he gets a couple disaffected Rats Senators on board with this he still has at least a dozen GOP'ers that are going to fight him tooth and nail for full blown amnesty.
What we want isn't going to happen 100%. Operation Wet Back II isn't in our future. There is going to have to be something given up in this to get border security that is effective.
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(http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/71/00/10/14942756/3/920x920.jpg)
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Who the hell says he knows anything? Ted's a hard liner on this issue and that makes for fine Right wing porn, but he doesn't tell anyone how he is going to get his ideas passed through congress. Even if he gets a couple disaffected Rats Senators on board with this he still has at least a dozen GOP'ers that are going to fight him tooth and nail for full blown amnesty.
What we want isn't going to happen 100%. Operation Wet Back II isn't in our future. There is going to have to be something given up in this to get border security that is effective.
Hard liner? Cruz is a liar
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CwVrfydjOI#)
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Cruz is such a phony, and he plays his followers for fools. In the real world we are going to have
to make a deal with the anti-American Marxists on migration. If we can get the wall, end chain
migration and get a merit based system I will take the deal.
goopo
This was just an opening proposal. Maybe they will still work something out but that chain migration by itself brings a whole lot of new immigrants in.
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Hard liner? Cruz is a liar
B.S! Cruz is NOT a liar. He is a man of integrity. He has always been against amnesty and he has always been for building a wall. Much like myself he believes we need to take a stronger stance (and that's putting it very mildly) on securing our borders.
Trump PROMISED A WALL and now he's asking for $$ which will be put into a trust fund! Trust fund?? So in essence, there won't be a wall anytime soon if at all. Trump PROMISED NO AMNESTY and now he is backpedaling! These are the two issues that catapulted his presidential campaign and got the masses behind him. On these two key issues he is breaking his promise. He is going back on his word He has no integrity!
Go Cruz!!! Ted is absolutely 100% correct on this. Trump should NOT compromise on this 2 issues, nor should the American people. Why oh why do people keep wanting to give away the sovereignty of our country?
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Cruz is exactly correct.
He most certainly is! As usual!
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Cruz is such a phony, and he plays his followers for fools. In the real world we are going to have
to make a deal with the anti-American Marxists on migration. If we can get the wall, end chain
migration and get a merit based system I will take the deal.
Why should we "have to make a deal with the anti-American Marxists"?
Seems to me that doing that is EXACTLY why we find ourselves where we do!
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Cruz is such a phony, and he plays his followers for fools. In the real world we are going to have
to make a deal with the anti-American Marxists on migration. If we can get the wall, end chain
migration and get a merit based system I will take the deal.
Careful you call a phony. Cruz is saying exactly what Trump was saying 16 months ago.
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Yeah, let's keep chain migration, that is as many as 1.3 million new potential citizens a year. That's really using one's thinking cap, way to go Cruz. Well, if one wants to give out virtually unlimited green cards, what does one expect?
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states#CurrentHistoricalNumbers (https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states#CurrentHistoricalNumbers)
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/dick-durbin-trump-holding-dreamers-hostage-with-immigration-plan/article/2647132 (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/dick-durbin-trump-holding-dreamers-hostage-with-immigration-plan/article/2647132)
And so do the Democrats reject it.
Let’s cut the bullshit on chain migration and the amnesty lottery. Just because people apply and meet requirements, it doesn’t mean they’re automatically in. Nobody is guaranteed entry or citizenship through those programs. Instead of issuing directives and actually managing the system, they just want to moan and whine it’s the bane of our existence so they can have a campaign issue.
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Careful you call a phony. Cruz is saying exactly what Trump was saying 16 months ago.
16 months ago Cruz was saying what Donny is saying today. Maybe it's Freaky Friday!
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Let’s cut the bullshit on chain migration and the amnesty lottery. Just because people apply and meet requirements, it doesn’t mean they’re automatically in. Nobody is guaranteed entry or citizenship through those programs. Instead of issuing directives and actually managing the system, they just want to moan and whine it’s the bane of our existence so they can have a campaign issue.
Bottom line is 70% of those immigrants here today legally come from chain migration. Given the high ratio of immigrants below the poverty line and on public assistance obviously the nation would benefit greatly by chucking chain migration altogether & going to a merit based system.
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Yes he is. If Ted says no then I believe we can get what is right. No amnesty......
Wish one of our Trump orange contingent here would explain how Trump didn't cave on what was his signature campaign issue.
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Cruz is such a phony, and he plays his followers for fools. In the real world we are going to have
to make a deal with the anti-American Marxists on migration. If we can get the wall, end chain
migration and get a merit based system I will take the deal.
You sure missed most of Trump's campaign speeches didn't you? Trump and his lackeys are the phonies.
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16 months ago Cruz was saying what Donny is saying today. Maybe it's Freaky Friday!
Cruz always opposed the DREAM Act.
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Careful you call a phony. Cruz is saying exactly what Trump was saying 16 months ago.
The Orangeist are beyond delusional. What I would say would get me banned,
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Bottom line is 70% of those immigrants here today legally come from chain migration. Given the high ratio of immigrants below the poverty line and on public assistance obviously the nation would benefit greatly by chucking chain migration altogether & going to a merit based system.
They're here because there's no real top down control over the program. You don't get to be a general slob, leave food out everywhere, spill soda all over the place, and say it's the exterminator's fault you have ants.
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Cruz always opposed the DREAM Act.
And like I said at TOS the day Trump announced his bid for POTUS....... He is the ultimate political Trojan Horse.
Brace yourself folks..... Hard left turn coming.
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Yeah, let's keep chain migration, that is as many as 1.3 million new potential citizens a year. That's really using one's thinking cap, way to go Cruz. Well, if one wants to give out virtually unlimited green cards, what does one expect?
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states#CurrentHistoricalNumbers (https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states#CurrentHistoricalNumbers)
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/dick-durbin-trump-holding-dreamers-hostage-with-immigration-plan/article/2647132 (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/dick-durbin-trump-holding-dreamers-hostage-with-immigration-plan/article/2647132)
And so do the Democrats reject it.
Do you ever get headaches in your silly attempts to defend this buffoon?
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The Orangeist are beyond delusional. What I would say would get me banned,
I like you @catfish1957 but this constant use of 'orange' as a smear is getting really old.
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Do you ever get headaches in your silly attempts to defend this buffoon?
Do you ever get heartburn from the bitterness bubbling inside you?
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And like I said at TOS the day Trump announced his bid for POTUS....... He is the ultimate political Trojan Horse.
Brace yourself folks..... Hard left turn coming.
@catfish1957
Wait a minute, you NTs have been saying he was a leftist all along. How can he take a left turn if he's already on the left?
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Cruz is a self serving con man.
Agreed. Amnesty for the Dreamers is both morally appropriate, and a small price to pay to get at least some of the immigration priorities that conservatives want. Let's get the best bargain we can and make some incremental progress. Doing nothing gets us - nothing (no matter how much we bitch and moan about the evil scofflaws who cut our lawns, care for our parents, etc., etc.)
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And just like that, another issue the Trump apologists brush aside to keep smooching Trump's butt. Trump is no orange buffoon, his faithful followers are.
Running out of issues they can claim to still support under Trump is their problem.
Good grief, after Trump gets mopped up this next election, he could always do a few J E L L O commercials.
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And just like that, another issue the Trump apologists brush aside to keep smooching Trump's butt. Trump is no orange buffoon, his faithful followers are.
Running out of issues they can claim to still support under Trump is their problem.
Good grief, after Trump gets mopped up this next election, he could always do a few J E L L O commercials.
2015 called .... they want their talking points back.
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No he's not....
“Doing so is inconsistent with the promises we made to the men and women who elected us.â€
Who's the "we" he speaks of or does he have a mouse in his pocket? From what I can see there are a fair number of GOP'ers under the control of Chamber Of Cheap Labor who have been promising open borders for years. What sort of magic voodoo does Ted suggest to get these dopes to go fully into his camp?
Frank, the GOP'ers who voted for Cruz aren't for open borders.
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Texas Senator Ted Cruz is a firm “No,†regarding the amnesty giveaway.
“I do not believe we should be granting a path to citizenship to anybody here illegally,†Cruz told reporters
Cruz forgets that he is here illegally.
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I don't pay attention to you after the name Ted Cruz is mentioned.
I know, right? It's like on Charlie Brown: "wha, wha, wha, wha,wha, wha, wha, wha,wha, wha, wha, wha."
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Cruz forgets that he is here illegally.
I think you're here illegally.
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Bottom line is 70% of those immigrants here today legally come from chain migration. Given the high ratio of immigrants below the poverty line and on public assistance obviously the nation would benefit greatly by chucking chain migration altogether & going to a merit based system.
And, perhaps cutting back on immigration for a bit to assimilate, as much as possible, those who are here already.
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Cruz forgets that he is here illegally.
@jpsb
Gosh you're funny.
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Wish one of our Trump orange contingent here would explain how Trump didn't cave on what was his signature campaign issue.
Trump is only talking about the DACA kids. Everyone knew something other than deportation
was going to happen to the DACA kids.
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Cruz always opposed the DREAM Act.
No he did not. I have to go but I will post a video of him proposing an amnesty back in the gang of 8
days when I get back.
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Trump is only talking about the DACA kids. Everyone knew something other than deportation
was going to happen to the DACA kids.
Wrong. ‘We’re going to keep the families together, but they have to go.’
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L01yYp3vTbA
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Trump is only talking about the DACA kids. Everyone knew something other than deportation
was going to happen to the DACA kids.
No, you're probably one of the few who was privy to that secret interpretation of Trumpisms.
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2015 called .... they want their talking points back.
2015 called .... they want their talking points back.
Watch it shimmer
See it glimmer
Cool and Fruity
Jello brand Trumpican
Of all deserts
You love the one
That debased the right
and makes cons run
Make Jello gelatin
And make some pun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlXPXS6Leog (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlXPXS6Leog)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlXPXS6Leog (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlXPXS6Leog)
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Cruz forgets that he is here illegally.
Well, to be fair @jpsb ... Cruz seems to have forgotten that Congress gave *him* a path to citizenship.
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No he did not. I have to go but I will post a video of him proposing an amnesty back in the gang of 8
days when I get back.
I hate to have to keep going back and pointing this out, but what you are referring to was Cruz using the Gang of Eight's rhetoric of compassion against them in the well of the senate to highlight the fact the compassion had NOTHING to do with their plan.
You are taking his comments way out of context.
He was against the Dream Act from the beginning.
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! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L01yYp3vTbA&app=desktop#)
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Watch it shimmer
See it glimmer
Cool and Fruity
Jello brand Trumpican
Of all deserts
You love the one
That debased the right
and makes cons run
Make Jello gelatin
And make some pun
You can send those back to 2015, too @Sighlass .. Well, if you have any interest in joining the real world, that is.
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Well, to be fair @jpsb ... Cruz seems to have forgotten that Congress gave *him* a path to citizenship.
Actually I believe that was his mother.
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Actually I believe that was his mother.
It was Congress passing a law that made his mother's nationality relevant.
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Cruz forgets that he is here illegally.
Somewhere, a kingdom is missing their court jester. I can think of several here that would ably fill that role...and they all voted for Trump.
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It was Congress passing a law that made his mother's nationality relevant.
@Right_in_Virginia
What nationality is Wilmington, Delaware?
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Well, to be fair @jpsb ... Cruz seems to have forgotten that Congress gave *him* a path to citizenship.
I really, really wish that Trump supporters (some of them) would get over the Cruz hatred.
I support Trump and I think he's doing good work. This bill is complicated and I won't judge it right now.
But Cruz has been a total gentleman and supported Trump for one solid year. This is the first time he's publicly disagreed with him.
Trump was vicious to Cruz during the campaign. It was really hard, but both Cruz and I were able to put that behind us and support Trump.
Time for you guys to do the same.
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No he did not. I have to go but I will post a video of him proposing an amnesty back in the gang of 8
days when I get back.
Ohh good grief, like none of us were there when this was being debated years ago. Everyone knows Cruz was grandstanding to get that bill (gang of eight) defeated. Even Sessions said as much.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/19/defiant-jeff-sessions-on-gang-of-eight-every-step-of-the-way-ted-cruz-was-on-my-side/ (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/19/defiant-jeff-sessions-on-gang-of-eight-every-step-of-the-way-ted-cruz-was-on-my-side/)
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Well, to be fair @jpsb ... Cruz seems to have forgotten that Congress gave *him* a path to citizenship.
That's why Congress is in the "Legislative Branch"...they are the law-making body of the federal government, though each law must be signed by the President, of course.
This branch has yielded way too much of its authority to the Executive branch for years. That's why Presidents govern by Executive Order, and the Judicial Branch inserts itself in rewriting laws they don't like.
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I really, really wish that Trump supporters (some of them) would get over the Cruz hatred.
I support Trump and I think he's doing good work. This bill is complicated and I won't judge it right now.
But Cruz has been a total gentleman and supported Trump for one solid year. This is the first time he's publicly disagreed with him.
Trump was vicious to Cruz during the campaign. It was really hard, but both Cruz and I were able to put that behind us and support Trump.
Time for you guys to do the same.
I applaud you, sir.
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! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L01yYp3vTbA&app=desktop#)
Worth reposting... @Bigun
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@Right_in_Virginia
What nationality is Wilmington, Delaware?
What's your point @driftdiver .... I'm busy and don't have time for the opaque. Have a question .... get to it.
Thanks.
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What year was it when Trump told the dreamers, after meeting with them "You've convinced me"?
2014?
2013?
It wasn't eons ago.
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I really, really wish that Trump supporters (some of them) would get over the Cruz hatred.
I support Trump and I think he's doing good work. This bill is complicated and I won't judge it right now.
But Cruz has been a total gentleman and supported Trump for one solid year. This is the first time he's publicly disagreed with him.
Trump was vicious to Cruz during the campaign. It was really hard, but both Cruz and I were able to put that behind us and support Trump.
Time for you guys to do the same.
This is not hatred of Cruz from Trump supporters @Emjay .... this is frustration with certain levels of bitterness holding some folks from moving forward and leaving the primaries behind.
Cruz is a good Senator for Texas. Your time might be better spent working on and contributing to his reelection efforts.
Just a suggestion.
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What year was it when Trump told the dreamers, after meeting with them "You've convinced me"?
2014?
2013?
It wasn't eons ago.
2013
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pol-trump-dreamers-20161215-story.html (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pol-trump-dreamers-20161215-story.html)
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This is not hatred of Cruz from Trump supporters @Emjay .... this is frustration with certain levels of bitterness holding some folks from moving forward and leaving the primaries behind.
Cruz is a good Senator for Texas. Your time might be better spent working on and contributing to his reelection efforts.
Just a suggestion.
That is BS. You cannot possibly even attempt to deny that the very mention of Ted Cruz is Kryptonite to your soul and the lashing out is reflexive.
Don't even think about telling me how to better spend my time.
I have defended you many times on this forum but this is a bridge too far.
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What year was it when Trump told the dreamers, after meeting with them "You've convinced me"?
2014?
2013?
It wasn't eons ago.
I'm sure fruit flies would disagree with you...their life span is 40-50 days. lol, but that's sometimes longer than many The Donald's firmly held principles.
http://"Leaders, true leaders, take responsibility for the success of the team, and understand that they must also take responsibility for the failure."
https://www.inc.com/peter-economy/21-donald-trump-quotes-to-inspire-your-success-and-happiness.html (https://www.inc.com/peter-economy/21-donald-trump-quotes-to-inspire-your-success-and-happiness.html)
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I applaud you, sir.
Thanks.
However, I am, and have always been, a girl.
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I really, really wish that Trump supporters (some of them) would get over the Cruz hatred.
I support Trump and I think he's doing good work. This bill is complicated and I won't judge it right now.
But Cruz has been a total gentleman and supported Trump for one solid year. This is the first time he's publicly disagreed with him.
Trump was vicious to Cruz during the campaign. It was really hard, but both Cruz and I were able to put that behind us and support Trump.
Time for you guys to do the same.
I absolutely agree.
"I really, really wish that Cruz supporters (some of them) would get over the Trump hatred.
I support Trump and I think he's doing good work."
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I absolutely agree.
"I really, really wish that Cruz supporters (some of them) would get over the Trump hatred.
I support Trump and I think he's doing good work."
I agree that Trump has done generally good work up to now but this current amnesty proposal does not fall into the category of "good work" IMHO.
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I absolutely agree.
"I really, really wish that Cruz supporters (some of them) would get over the Trump hatred.
I support Trump and I think he's doing good work."
Don't be an ass. As soon as Trump was elected, I started supporting him and so did Ted Cruz.
You cannot name one time when Ted failed to back Trump on his initiatives. This is one point where rabid Trumpers are totally insane.
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Don't be an ass. As soon as Trump was elected, I started supporting him and so did Ted Cruz.
You cannot name one time when Ted failed to back Trump on his initiatives. This is one point where rabid Trumpers are totally insane.
Stand back a couple of steps. I did NOT write your own words about YOU.
I said "some of them," as did you.
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Stand back a couple of steps. I did NOT write your own words about YOU.
I said "some of them," as did you.
You stand back. It is actually possible to like two people in politics. I stand by what I said about Trump and I stand by what I said about Cruz.
AND Trump had better listen to Cruz on this issue and consult him because Trump desperately needs to go in the right direction here.
I venture over to TOS occasionally to check the sentiment over there and many of them would turn against Trump if he makes the wrong move on the immigration issue.
It is a perilous time for Trump and he needs to take the counsel of Ted Cruz very seriously here.
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Wish one of our Trump orange contingent here would explain how Trump didn't cave on what was his signature campaign issue.
To be fair, Trump supported touchback amnesty during the campaign. With this new deal, he is merely dropping the 'touchback' part.
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Do you ever get heartburn from the bitterness bubbling inside you?
@Right_in_Virginia @catfish1957
It could be frustration from dealing with the utter hypocrisy of those claiming to be anti-amnesty while supporting a pro-amnesty candidate and President.
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Cruz forgets that he is here illegally.
@jpsb
Lies make Jesus cry.
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That is BS. You cannot possibly even attempt to deny that the very mention of Ted Cruz is Kryptonite to your soul and the lashing out is reflexive.
Calm down @Emjay I do deny that Ted Cruz is anything near Kryptonite to my soul---or any other part of me. He's the Senator from Texas and an ineffective member of GOP Senate. Kryptonite? He's not even on my radar screen. If I should ever be curious about what Cruz is saying at any point in time I'll Google "Ronald Reagan" or "Donald Trump" and go to the source.
Don't even think about telling me how to better spend my time. I have defended you many times on this forum but this is a bridge too far.
Thanks for defending me, but that doesn't give you the power to control me. I will give you my opinion any time I want. You can do with it what you want. So, I'll repeat: instead of throwing fabricated poop at people, your time may be better spent helping the good Senator from Texas win reelection.
Again, just a suggestion.
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@Right_in_Virginia @catfish1957
It could be frustration from dealing with the utter hypocrisy of those claiming to be anti-amnesty while supporting a pro-amnesty candidate and President.
@Right_in_Virginia
Please understand something. I want Trump to succeed. I want him to put forward a good bill that will be acceptable to OUR side.
I know some compromise will be necessary and the rats are probably pretty locked in on a few issues.
But this is a risky time for Trump. He cannot be seen as pro-amnesty or as going back on his promises.
That's why I want him to get Ted Cruz up to the oval office ASAP and confer with a man who understands the situation.
Some of you people need to stop reacting and start thinking.
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I applaud you, sir.
Ma'am.
And, that was a great statement by @Emjay.
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Agreed. Amnesty for the Dreamers is both morally appropriate, and a small price to pay to get at least some of the immigration priorities that conservatives want. Let's get the best bargain we can and make some incremental progress. Doing nothing gets us - nothing (no matter how much we bitch and moan about the evil scofflaws who cut our lawns, care for our parents, etc., etc.)
My pragmatism finds me totally agreeing with you on this.
Nevertheless, expect incoming in 5-4-3-2-1.......... :laugh:
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@Right_in_Virginia
Please understand something. I want Trump to succeed. I want him to put forward a good bill that will be acceptable to OUR side.
I know some compromise will be necessary and the rats are probably pretty locked in on a few issues.
But this is a risky time for Trump. He cannot be seen as pro-amnesty or as going back on his promises.
That's why I want him to get Ted Cruz up to the oval office ASAP and confer with a man who understands the situation.
Some of you people need to stop reacting and start thinking.
They ARE going to get 'Amnesty'. And, I'm perfectly fine with that.
Also realize that even if the signed agreement includes a provision for withholding their right to vote for [fill-in-the-blank] years?
Soon as the DEMS gain majorities, they become 'instant' voters with a stroke-of-the-pen.
That's why I love "No Wall? No DACA!" Construction on The Wall needs to be a REALITY.
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They ARE going to get 'Amnesty'. And, I'm perfectly fine with that.
Also realize that even if the signed agreement includes a provision for withholding their right to vote for [fill-in-the-blank] years?
Soon as the DEMS gain majorities, they become 'instant' voters with a stroke-of-the-pen.
That's why I love "No Wall? No DACA!" Construction on The Wall needs to be a REALITY.
You're fooling yourself if you believe constructing the wall will be the panacea. France was willing to compromise on flagrant violations of Versailles because they had the Maginot Line. The Germans just found another way in.
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They ARE going to get 'Amnesty'. And, I'm perfectly fine with that.
Also realize that even if the signed agreement includes a provision for withholding their right to vote for [fill-in-the-blank] years?
Soon as the DEMS gain majorities, they become 'instant' voters with a stroke-of-the-pen.
That's why I love "No Wall? No DACA!" Construction on The Wall needs to be a REALITY.
You might want to hold off on jumping on board the amnesty train... it is possible Trump is reprising Cruz's 2012 performance on the original Gang of Eight bill and knows full well the democrats will not accept any amnesty plan that includes limits on future immigration. If they don't he'll have the high road from now on.
Then there you guys'll be, hangin' out there, having applauded amnesty for 1.8 million.
The way the libs are reacting today this just may be what the administration has in mind.
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You might want to hold off on jumping on board the amnesty train... it is possible Trump is reprising Cruz's 2012 performance on the original Gang of Eight bill and knows full well the democrats will not accept any amnesty plan that includes limits on future immigration. If they don't he'll have the high road from now on.
Then there you guys'll be, hangin' out there, having applauded amnesty for 1.8 million.
The way the libs are reacting today this just may be what the administration has in mind.
Amnesty is coming. Like the flu season. It's merely a question of how severe, the strain.
IMO, ideally it would be TEN YEARS before the vote is granted. That would enable a lot of Americans to witness MAGA firsthand...maybe they'll become Republicans.
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Amnesty is coming. Like the flu season. It's merely a question of how severe, the strain.
IMO, ideally it would be TEN YEARS before the vote is granted. That would enable a lot of Americans to witness MAGA firsthand...maybe they'll become Republicans.
I believed that as well, thirty years ago. Now I realize that the racial divisions created by the '65 immigration act are permanent and will forever be made worse by dysfunctional immigration policies and craven politicians.
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I believed that as well, thirty years ago. Now I realize that the racial divisions created by the '65 immigration act are permanent and will forever be made worse by craven politicians.
Meh.... I think it's working out perfectly.
Like Oprah said...."white people need to die...". The Democrats need a permanent underclass.
So...open borders leave us in deep shit.
All of a sudden, Donald Trump appears and not only stops the flow at the border, but also syphons millions off their voter rolls.
So...in the end it will be a invigorated GOP and DEM party.
Hope I live to see it. :laugh:
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Ma'am.
And, that was a great statement by @Emjay.
888high58888 Indeed it was!
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They ARE going to get 'Amnesty'. And, I'm perfectly fine with that.
Also realize that even if the signed agreement includes a provision for withholding their right to vote for [fill-in-the-blank] years?
Soon as the DEMS gain majorities, they become 'instant' voters with a stroke-of-the-pen.
That's why I love "No Wall? No DACA!" Construction on The Wall needs to be a REALITY.
The amnesty part of the immigration reform proposal is Trump trying to pressure the Rats into agreeing to a wall and ending chain migration along with the lottery. I don't see the Rats agreeing. They know they have a steady stream of new voters as the natural born children of illegals become voters. The Rats have suceeded in turning CA. into a dark blue state with illegal immigration. It's only a matter of time for the demographics to shift to their favor in other states.
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The amnesty part of the immigration reform proposal is Trump trying to pressure the Rats into agreeing to a wall and ending chain migration along with the lottery. I don't see the Rats agreeing. They know they have a steady stream of new voters as the natural born children of illegals become voters. The Rats have suceeded in turning CA. into a dark blue state with illegal immigration. It's only a matter of time for the demographics to shift to their favor in other states.
Exactly...another that gets why Trump's amnesty deal for 1.8 million is an extremely bad deal not only for the GOP but for the country in general.
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If Ted don't like it, I don't like it.
I'll second that!
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I'll second that!
Those that don't live in a border state have obviously not experienced the problems we've already faced firsthand as a result of illegal immigration. To encourage amnesty and to risk the sovereignty of our country is absolute lunacy!
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I'll second that!
Yeah, baby !!!!
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Those that don't live in a border state have obviously not experienced the problems we've already faced firsthand as a result of illegal immigration. To encourage amnesty and to risk the sovereignty of our country is absolute lunacy!
All we have to do is look at CA. The state has gone from being prosperous to having the highest poverty rate in the nation. It has been transformed into a hard left largely one party state. We often confuse the generally socially conservative views of latinos with being conservative. They may be socially conservative, but they vote big govt solutions to any perceived problem. Unfortunately for conservatives demographics are not in our favor.
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NO AMNESTY - NO COMPROMISE! Something to consider (it's lengthy but worth the read):
Under the supposedly "conservative" pretense of boosting "border security" and limiting illegal immigration, Congressman Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.) has introduced H.R. 4760, the Securing America's Future Act of 2018, which would force all Americans to have mandatory national biometric ID cards and in exchange for this bill would give the Democrats and millions of illegal immigrants amnesty by including DACA. In a recent January 22, 2018 article published by The New American online, Alex Newman reports about the proposal:
Republican leaders in Congress are once again plotting with Democrats to stab the American people and the U.S. Constitution in the back, on multiple key issues. Under the guise of getting "something" in exchange for providing amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants (and future Democrat voters) in Obama's illegal Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program, the establishment wing of the GOP is pushing a radical longtime goal of the bipartisan Deep State: mandatory national biometric ID cards for all Americans.
The Deferred Action for Childhood Arrival (DACA) program began in 2012 as a series of unconstitutional executive actions by President Barack Obama. The program extends protections from deportation for roughly 741,546 young immigrants who illegally entered the United States as children with their parents. The program was originally meant to expire in March of 2018, but President Trump allowed for a six-month delay in order to give Congress ample time to settle the issue. Republicans typically oppose DACA, but Democrats want to keep it. As for what are the national biometric ID cards, which congressional Republicans want so much that they are willing to pass DACA in exchange, Alex Newman writes:
The Orwellian national ID scheme, known as "E-Verify," is ostensibly aimed at making it harder for illegal immigrants to find work in the United States. Basically, as part of the program, which would become mandatory under the bill, every employer would be forced to buy a scanner and use it to check the legal work status of potential employees. On top of that, every worker would be forced to have a biometric ID issued by the federal government in order to be able to legally work. Without this national ID, employers would not legally be able to hire somebody.
It is already illegal for employers to hire illegal immigrants. Passing new laws, like E-Verify, will not change anything. As Newman explains, "in reality, illegal immigrants are typically paid under the table anyway - many of them simply work as day laborers and get paid in cash at the end of the day. In light of that fact, the unconstitutional plot to mandate national ID will do little to prevent unscrupulous employers from continuing to hire illegal immigrants, off the books."
So just as how gun-control laws fail to prevent criminals from using guns to commit crimes, likewise E-Verify will not stop law-breaking companies and employers from hiring illegal immigrants. "What the scheme will do," according to Newman, "is [to] force all law-abiding Americans to carry an unconstitutional national ID with all their information on it, including sensitive biometric data, just to be allowed to work. It will also give the feds a key new tool to monitor and control people."
Also sounding the alarm - As Newman points out - is former Texas congressman and Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul, who in an e-mail to supporters and members of the non-profit Campaign for Liberty (C4L), warns:
That's right -- the statists want to control you.
Just think about it. . . Gun ownership. Employment history. Family and friends. Purchasing habits. Health records. Travel. Religious beliefs. Past political contributions [...], just imagine all these records and more on EVERY American citizen stored in a massive national database right at a federal government bureaucrat's finger tips.
Under this E-Verify "statists' National ID scheme," as Paul puts it, "you'd be forced to carry around your National ID card, tied to this massive database, chockfull of biometric identifiers like fingerprints and retina scans." And to see just how far-reaching this program would be, Paul states that those who don't have the onerous biometric ID "won't be able to legally hold a job -- or likely even open a bank account or even board a plane!"
Despite what establishment congressional Republicans, like Congressman Goodlatte, might say to entice conservatives into supporting the bill (such as funding for the construction of a wall on U.S.-Mexico border), H.R. 4760 is altogether a bad deal for America. As Newman reports, the bill would "increase the number of foreign workers brought in by 45 percent, meaning 55,000 additional immigrants each year on top of those already coming in" and "also expands the H-2C program, allowing about a million temporary workers to come into the United States and compete with Americans in the food and agriculture sectors." Goodlatte's bill not only infringes on American's God-given rights and individual liberties, but by including DACA it further makes it inconsistent with the anti-globalist "America First" campaign promises of President Donald Trump to "Make America Great Again."
Please phone your representative (202-225-3121) and senators (202-224-3121) and ask them to OPPOSE both the E-Verify biometric national ID and DACA amnesty by VOTING AGAINST H.R. 4760, the Securing America's Future Act of 2018.
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We live in frightening times when the "conservative" party thinks the solution to illegal immigration is the federal govt having control over who can work or purchase goods in the country.
I think all we are seeing right now is positioning for the mid term elections. Trump has maneuvered the Rats into revealing they really don't want a deal. If Trump wants to really push the Rats into resolving the issue all he has to do is end DACA (it's illegal anyway) and begin deporting the DACA "kids" and their parents. The Rats will want a solution then.
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We live in frightening times when the "conservative" party thinks the solution to illegal immigration is the federal govt having control over who can work or purchase goods in the country.
I think all we are seeing right now is positioning for the mid term elections. Trump has maneuvered the Rats into revealing they really don't want a deal. If Trump wants to really push the Rats into resolving the issue all he has to do is end DACA (it's illegal anyway) and begin deporting the DACA "kids" and their parents. The Rats will want a solution then.
888high58888
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You might want to hold off on jumping on board the amnesty train... it is possible Trump is reprising Cruz's 2012 performance on the original Gang of Eight bill and knows full well the democrats will not accept any amnesty plan that includes limits on future immigration. If they don't he'll have the high road from now on.
Then there you guys'll be, hangin' out there, having applauded amnesty for 1.8 million.
The way the libs are reacting today this just may be what the administration has in mind.
This.
I wish Cruz had waited to voice his opinion on this.
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CruzTrump is a self serving con man.
Fixed it for you.
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NO AMNESTY - NO COMPROMISE! Something to consider (it's lengthy but worth the read):
Despite what establishment congressional Republicans, like Congressman Goodlatte, might say to
Please phone your representative (202-225-3121) and senators (202-224-3121) and ask them to OPPOSE both the E-Verify biometric national ID and DACA amnesty by VOTING AGAINST H.R. 4760, the Securing America's Future Act of 2018.
Particularly if your rep is a Dem.
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This.
I wish Cruz had waited to voice his opinion on this.
I agree. In his defense he's running for re-election and sure doesn't want to be seen as someone who says one thing during the campaign and does another after he's elected.
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Thanks for sharing that @libertybele
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All we have to do is look at CA. The state has gone from being prosperous to having the highest poverty rate in the nation. It has been transformed into a hard left largely one party state. We often confuse the generally socially conservative views of latinos with being conservative. They may be socially conservative, but they vote big govt solutions to any perceived problem. Unfortunately for conservatives demographics are not in our favor.
California has literally become a s-hole. I mean there's a map showing it.
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NO AMNESTY - NO COMPROMISE! Something to consider (it's lengthy but worth the read):
That is scary. Can I get my chip at the vet where Smitty got his?
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Thanks for sharing that @libertybele
@corbe sometimes it takes a day or two for me to agree with you on something. Found that out today.
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I find this thread a GOLD MINE of revelation, hilarity and proof the Trump Faithful are as principally core-less as their wind-driven leader.
First, Our Resident Leftist who thinks his bullshit masquerade as a Conservative has you all fooled, once again proves his charade with his statement that Amnesty for illegals is "morally appropriate". I do not think I have ever read ONE thing that guy has ever posted here that was not a championed agenda item complete with talking points from the unhinged Left.
Then we had the Passive/Aggressive Trumpian Queen of Snark & Bitch demonstrate projection on a massive level after levying "suggestions" to other posters about what they should be doing instead of voicing concerns about amnesty and Trump. I laughed quite literally out loud when she states that she 'cannot be controlled' by another whom had defended her in times past but was quite beside themselves over the Queen's retort of what they should do with their time. PRICELESS!
And of course - reading the most vocal and stalwart of Trump's cheerleaders here confess that pragmatism once again trumps any kind of principles with their admission that they are perfectly good and fine with amnesty, or: How They Learned To Stop Worrying And Love Amnesty For Illegals. I do love the quip about hoping to live long enough after the unstoppable Amnesty of 1.8 million (or is it really 18 million?) will result in an invigorated Uniparty. Probably the most inadvertent salient point made on this thread.
I will enjoy more than anything in the next 3 years, reading, watching and witnessing these folks demonstrate for us, the new Olympic sport of Contortionist Backpedaling on Orange Unicycles.
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WE both know @INVAR that whatever Trump does on Immigration they will LOVE IT!
(http://www.zlata.de/free/images/index_11-20/011/11-04_dfr/11-04_small.jpg)
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Hard liner? Cruz is a liar
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CwVrfydjOI#)
For the love of God, how can there be any of that poor horse left? If I just go by what happened in the primaries, Cruz was honest as can be in comparison to the biggest liar in the primaries.
Now the election has come and gone Trump won, Cruz has been steadfast in his support of Trump but chuckleheads like you just can't get past your hate, reading your posts is like a trip back to TOS. And it's the Trump supporters who claim others can't get over it, sheesh!
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For the love of God, how can there be any of that poor horse left? If I just go by what happened in the primaries, Cruz was honest as can be in comparison to the biggest liar in the primaries.
Now the election has come and gone Trump won, Cruz has been steadfast in his support of Trump but chuckleheads like you just can't get past your hate, reading your posts is like a trip back to TOS. And it's the Trump supporters who claim others can't get over it, sheesh!
Amen, Brother. The hard-core Trump supporters do Trump far more harm than good on this forum.
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I guess Trump supporters still haven't been told how they should feel about Ted Cruz now. During the primaries, Cruz was the enemy. Then he endorsed Trump and pledged to work with him, so Ted became ok. By opposing any compromise that includes amnesty, I guess Ted will become the enemy again in the eyes of Trump supporters.
Trump supporters -- I guess you should refrain from comment till your hero tells you what to think
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I guess Trump supporters still haven't been told how they should feel about Ted Cruz now. During the primaries, Cruz was the enemy. Then he endorsed Trump and pledged to work with him, so Ted became ok. By opposing any compromise that includes amnesty, I guess Ted will become the enemy again in the eyes of Trump supporters.
Trump supporters -- I guess you should refrain from comment till your hero tells you what to think
Considering the mercurial nature of Mr. Trump, i.e. mercurial referring to the rapidity of his changing stances on a variety of issues, traffic on TBR would likely come to a screeching halt if Orange Brigadiers had to wait for Trump to tell them what to think.
Trump admittedly thrives on chaos, particularly when he's the one causing it. Trump supporters love it, calling it "six dimensional chess."
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Considering the mercurial nature of Mr. Trump, i.e. mercurial referring to the rapidity of his changing stances on a variety of issues, traffic on TBR would likely come to a screeching halt if Orange Brigadiers had to wait for Trump to tell them what to think.
Trump admittedly thrives on chaos, particularly when he's the one causing it. Trump supporters love it, calling it "six dimensional chess."
@Night Hides Not
And you love insulting a group of people that you dont know and have no idea what their motivations are because you can offer nothing positive.
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@Night Hides Not
And you love insulting a group of people that you dont know and have no idea what their motivations are because you can offer nothing positive.
Hey bro, leave me alone so I can fondle my rosary, as alluded to by one of your fellow Brigadiers.
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I came back to this thread hoping their had been some real discussion. I came to page 5 first to SEE if there has been real discussion. I read @INVAR first which settled the question about whether there had been real discussion and provided a summary.
If Trump fails on immigration there are many who voted for him who will not forgive him. If he succeeds on immigration I might vote for him next time. We've tried amnesty more than once and it doesn't work. I can support green cards for DACA (not Dreamers) so long as they are good citizens, but their path to citizenship should be no different than that of any other. To quote Trump "the Wall!!!!". Without effective enforcement, nothing else matters. Money for enforcement, in all forms, before any movement on DACA.
Trump can walk back to his original position. After a year in office, no one will be surprised, but many will be supportive.
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Hey bro, leave me alone so I can fondle my rosary, as alluded to by one of your fellow Brigadiers.
It's not your rosary you're fondling
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I came back to this thread hoping their had been some real discussion. I came to page 5 first to SEE if there has been real discussion. I read @INVAR first which settled the question about whether there had been real discussion and provided a summary.
If Trump fails on immigration there are many who voted for him who will not forgive him. If he succeeds on immigration I might vote for him next time. We've tried amnesty more than once and it doesn't work. I can support green cards for DACA (not Dreamers) so long as they are good citizens, but their path to citizenship should be no different than that of any other. To quote Trump "the Wall!!!!". Without effective enforcement, nothing else matters. Money for enforcement, in all forms, before any movement on DACA.
Trump can walk back to his original position. After a year in office, no one will be surprised, but many will be supportive.
@ConstitutionRose
I'm hoping it's simply his way of throwing the left off balance. You know they expected something else. Probably had the hit pieces already lined up.
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This may have been scripted, the two cooperated before.
Even if Cruz was president, to pass effective legislation, apparently, votes are needed in the Senate. So, when do we get immigration reform? It's gridlock.
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It's not your rosary you're fondling
Just what I would have expected from an Orange Brigadier...straight out of the gutter.
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This may have been scripted, the two cooperated before.
Even if Cruz was president, to pass effective legislation, apparently, votes are needed in the Senate. So, when do we get immigration reform? It's gridlock.
Whatever these clowns come up with, it will represent yet another lie and broken promise made to the voters. If you can't or won't keep your promises, don't make them. But these guys will promise anything as long as it gets them elected. And come 2018 and 2020, foolish voters will fall for the lies and empty promises again.
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Just what I would have expected from an Orange Brigadier...straight out of the gutter.
@Night Hides Not
I wanted to give you the environment you're accustomed too
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Whatever these clowns come up with, it will represent yet another lie and broken promise made to the voters. If you can't or won't keep your promises, don't make them. But these guys will promise anything as long as it gets them elected. And come 2018 and 2020, foolish voters will fall for the lies and empty promises again.
Promises? Hardly, they are merely "discussion points" to open negotiations.
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@ConstitutionRose
I'm hoping it's simply his way of throwing the left off balance. You know they expected something else. Probably had the hit pieces already lined up.
The reality of the matter is that Trump has already announced the he is willing to grant amnesty to an estimated 1.8 million DACA recipients and has been quoted on that by just about every news source. It doesn't matter what he's hoping to get along with that; he's agreed to amnesty. It doesn't get much clearer than that. Two things; in doing so, he's put a noose around every GOP's neck who won't go along with amnesty and he's set a precedent for every illegal here. Most significantly, he's backpedaled and he's LIED! There's no other way to look at this. He lied. He specifically stated "no amnesty".
He could bring about the largest tax reform in history and jump start the economy but at the end of the day he's handed the left millions of voters. Voters for the most part that don't want to assimilate and with no way to end the succession of people flowing into this country. He will have succeeded in giving away our sovereignty and IMHO, this may have been all by design long ago before he even announced his run for the presidency. After all Clinton proclaimed that her dream was to see “open trade and open borders†throughout the Western Hemisphere.
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@ConstitutionRose
I'm hoping it's simply his way of throwing the left off balance. You know they expected something else. Probably had the hit pieces already lined up.
By offering a horrible and loosing proposition? Okay then...
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Promises? Hardly, they are merely "discussion points" to open negotiations.
Sorta like the border wall was just meant to be symbolic.
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By offering a horrible and loosing proposition? Okay then...
Fear not:
The White House has canceled their planned meeting with lawmakers to roll out their immigration “framework†that gives U.S. citizenship to at least 1.8 million illegal aliens, as Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer demands more concessions from the administration. A statement from pro-open borders Sen. Dick Durbin’s (D-IL) office revealed that White House advisers — including Gen. John Kelly, former Koch brothers executive Marc Short, Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Kirstjen Nielsen, and senior adviser Stephen Miller — have canceled their Monday rollout of the amnesty package.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/01/26/wh-cancels-scheduled-rollout-of-citizenship-for-illegal-aliens-plan/ (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/01/26/wh-cancels-scheduled-rollout-of-citizenship-for-illegal-aliens-plan/)
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Sorta like the border wall was just meant to be symbolic.
Based on my last post, the "rollout" was obviously symbolic, too. :thud:
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By offering a horrible and loosing proposition? Okay then...
He's managed to get away with it because the Dems always overreach, giving Trump a chance to tie them back. If they ever stop doing that and start settling for what they can get easily, this strategy is in trouble.
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He's managed to get away with it because the Dems always overreach, giving Trump a chance to tie them back. If they ever stop doing that and start settling for what they can get easily, this strategy is in trouble.
Exactly - what if he "wins" this one?
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He's managed to get away with it because the Dems always overreach, giving Trump a chance to tie them back. If they ever stop doing that and start settling for what they can get easily, this strategy is in trouble.
It's already happening @Cyber Liberty ... only it's coming the Dem's "base" pushing Congressional Democrats deeper and deeper into the corner.
First, it's the protests, including the ones outside Schumer's home and now a flat out rejection of the President's proposal by "Dreamer action groups".
More here: http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,301277.0.html (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,301277.0.html)
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It's already happening @Cyber Liberty ... only it's coming the Dem's "base" pushing Congressional Democrats deeper and deeper into the corner.
First, it's the protests, including the ones outside Schumer's home and now a flat out rejection of the President's proposal by "Dreamer action groups".
More here: http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,301277.0.html (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,301277.0.html)
It could very well be they can't "take what they can" because their base won't permit it.
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The reality of the matter is that Trump has already announced the he is willing to grant amnesty to an estimated 1.8 million DACA recipients and has been quoted on that by just about every news source. It doesn't matter what he's hoping to get along with that; he's agreed to amnesty. It doesn't get much clearer than that. Two things; in doing so, he's put a noose around every GOP's neck who won't go along with amnesty and he's set a precedent for every illegal here. Most significantly, he's backpedaled and he's LIED! There's no other way to look at this. He lied. He specifically stated "no amnesty".
He could bring about the largest tax reform in history and jump start the economy but at the end of the day he's handed the left millions of voters. Voters for the most part that don't want to assimilate and with no way to end the succession of people flowing into this country. He will have succeeded in giving away our sovereignty and IMHO, this may have been all by design long ago before he even announced his run for the presidency. After all Clinton proclaimed that her dream was to see “open trade and open borders†throughout the Western Hemisphere.
RE: bold
"I told them I'd take the heat....and sign whatever they bring me".
We've already witnessed Pres. Trump's negotiating style with that televised White House meeting with heads of House and Senate.
He KNOWS they will always overreach.
And as I stated previously, "amnesty" is coming for the DACAs....like it or not. They only thing that should concern all of us is their right to vote. THAT must NOT happen for a minimum of 10years.
Give Pres. Trump's strategy to bring back America to greatness a chance before the DEMS can wreck the place again.
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RE: bold
"I told them I'd take the heat....and sign whatever they bring me".
We've already witnessed Pres. Trump's negotiating style with that televised White House meeting with heads of House and Senate.
He KNOWS they will always overreach.
And as I stated previously, "amnesty" is coming for the DACAs....like it or not. They only thing that should concern all of us is their right to vote. THAT must NOT happen for a minimum of 10years.
Give Pres. Trump's strategy to bring back America to greatness a chance before the DEMS can wreck the place again.
Problem is the ten years till they vote will last about as long as it takes Trump to finish his term, maybe sooner.
There's no way they'll grant them amnesty and not immediately begin the push to give them the vote. Which they will promptly get.
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Problem is the ten years till they vote will last about as long as it takes Trump to finish his term, maybe sooner.
There's no way they'll grant them amnesty and not immediately begin the push to give them the vote. Which they will promptly get.
They promptly WILL, should the DEMS take the House and Senate before 2020.
I have a feeling President Trump has this covered.
WTH..... we're here and bought the ticket...may as well enjoy the ride. :laugh:
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Problem is the ten years till they vote will last about as long as it takes Trump to finish his term, maybe sooner.
There's no way they'll grant them amnesty and not immediately begin the push to give them the vote. Which they will promptly get.
The other problem is the wall. It won't be built in time to stop another wave of illegals. The Rats will tie up the actual construction in the courts with environmental and eminent domain issues. They will also tie up ending chain migration in the courts while another 5-6 million people get the right to be here.
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It could very well be they can't "take what they can" because their base won't permit it.
...if their base is illegals, true.
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RE: bold
"I told them I'd take the heat....and sign whatever they bring me".
We've already witnessed Pres. Trump's negotiating style with that televised White House meeting with heads of House and Senate.
He KNOWS they will always overreach.
And as I stated previously, "amnesty" is coming for the DACAs....like it or not. They only thing that should concern all of us is their right to vote. THAT must NOT happen for a minimum of 10years.
Give Pres. Trump's strategy to bring back America to greatness a chance before the DEMS can wreck the place again.
So, to take advantage of their overreach, his starting position is to overreach? Just not working....
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The other problem is the wall. It won't be built in time to stop another wave of illegals. The Rats will tie up the actual construction in the courts with environmental and eminent domain issues. They will also tie up ending chain migration in the courts while another 5-6 million people get the right to be here.
If he gives in now, it won't be built at all. "Trust fund"? Really? Sorta like the Social Security trust fund?
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They're going to publicly unveil this on Monday. Given the negative reaction it's received from both sides, it'll be interesting to see if anything has changed over four days or how they'll attempt to sell it as is.
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They're going to publicly unveil this on Monday. Given the negative reaction it's received from both sides, it'll be interesting to see if anything has changed over four days or how they'll attempt to sell it as is.
The unveiling for Monday has been cancelled. I linked the Breitbart article on another post.
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The unveiling for Monday has been cancelled. I linked the Breitbart article on another post.
From that link.....
DHS spokesperson Tyler Houlton, though, called the canceled rollout a “scheduling issue,†saying that the canceling was not due to other reasons.
Seems like there has been an outbreak of scheduling problems and logistical issues at the WH lately.
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So, to take advantage of their overreach, his starting position is to overreach? Just not working....
He comes out and says "bring me something to sign. I'll sign it". You saw how that ended...with Pelosi and Schumer wearing egg.
He comes out and says, "Amnesty for 1.8 million in exchange for THE WALL" is essentially the same thing as "Bring me something.....".
if you can't follow the bouncing ball, ....can't help you. ^-^
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He comes out and says "bring me something to sign. I'll sign it". You saw how that ended...with Pelosi and Schumer wearing egg.
He comes out and says, "Amnesty for 1.8 million in exchange for THE WALL" is essentially the same thing as "Bring me something.....".
if you can't follow the bouncing ball, ....can't help you. ^-^
Ah, that's how you spin it. The traditional "you're too stupid to understand what he's doing", and the "somehow this works in 13 dimensional chess". Got it.
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He comes out and says "bring me something to sign. I'll sign it". You saw how that ended...with Pelosi and Schumer wearing egg.
He comes out and says, "Amnesty for 1.8 million in exchange for THE WALL" is essentially the same thing as "Bring me something.....".
if you can't follow the bouncing ball, ....can't help you. ^-^
I can follow it. The terrible Graham-Durbin proposal wanted to cover about 3.2M total. This really bad WH proposal has a figure of 1.8M people. Seems like we're heading for a compromise between terrible and really bad for an appalling deal that ends up with 2.5M receiving legal status and eventual citizenship.
Chain migration won't end. It'll only get scaled back. The wall funding can always be blocked by a future congress. What we'll end up getting is a free ride for illegals and a bunch of broken promises on enforcement. Feels a lot like 1986.
Make
America
Gullible
Again
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Chain migration continues, per different sources, that results in about 1,000,000 coming in every year. So, Cruz's "forget it" means more chain migration. The original proposal though, did not have chain migration ending for quite some time anyway.
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Exactly - what if he "wins" this one?
He would be in a position analogous to a dog who caught the car.
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He would be in a position analogous to a dog who caught the car.
Ah, the old "tiger by the tail" strategy.
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I can follow it. The terrible Graham-Durbin proposal wanted to cover about 3.2M total. This really bad WH proposal has a figure of 1.8M people. Seems like we're heading for a compromise between terrible and really bad for an appalling deal that ends up with 2.5M receiving legal status and eventual citizenship.
Chain migration won't end. It'll only get scaled back. The wall funding can always be blocked by a future congress. What we'll end up getting is a free ride for illegals and a bunch of broken promises on enforcement. Feels a lot like 1986.
Make
America
Gullible
Again
Trump supporters see it like this:
(http://www.screenused.com/images/auction_jul13/13440_12.jpg)
The rest of us see it like this:
(https://genehowington.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/pyrrhus-of-epirus.jpg?w=640)
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Trump supporters see it like this:
(http://www.screenused.com/images/auction_jul13/13440_12.jpg)
The biggest problem they'd have with using Thermopylae as an example of making a stand on immigration is forgetting the committed Greeks were sold out by Ephialtes - one of their own countrymen - leading to their annihilation.
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DACA is all the Dems have as an issue. They cannot and will not agree to anything Trump comes up with or they will not have an issue for 2020.
I have no idea of what Trump is thinking other than what he wrote in his book and what he has done in the past. I *think* he made the offer knowing that Chuckie Schmuckie would never agree to it, the results being, “See? I tried to work with these cretins. They refused to compromise.†I think the offer will be rescinded, what Trump really wants passed that our lovely RINOs will allow will be done via reconciliation. I refuse to be Chicken Little until the fat lady has sung.
The rest of you can set fire to your hair as is your wont, but until this is finished, none of us knows what Trump is truly doing.
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DACA is all the Dems have as an issue. They cannot and will not agree to anything Trump comes up with or they will not have an issue for 2020.
I have no idea of what Trump is thinking other than what he wrote in his book and what he has done in the past. I *think* he made the offer knowing that Chuckie Schmuckie would never agree to it, the results being, “See? I tried to work with these cretins. They refused to compromise.†I think the offer will be rescinded, what Trump really wants passed that our lovely RINOs will allow will be done via reconciliation. I refuse to be Chicken Little until the fat lady has sung.
The rest of you can set fire to your hair as is your wont, but until this is finished, none of us knows what Trump is truly doing.
I agree with your analysis.
The notion both sides have less to gain by "solving the immigration issue," has held constant since 1986.
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Ah, that's how you spin it. The traditional "you're too stupid to understand what he's doing", and the "somehow this works in 13 dimensional chess". Got it.
Oh come on now, you have to admit that the synchronized backpedalling contortions on orange unicycles is an amazing spectacle to behold. Just wait to see what the team does once the music changes and we have 1986 Part Deux, only much, much bigger.
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Oh come on now, you have to admit that the synchronized backpedalling contortions on orange unicycles is an amazing spectacle to behold. Just wait to see what the team does once the music changes and we have 1986 Part Deux, only much, much bigger.
If 1986 Part Deux, only much, much bigger occurs, I will be the first to grab a lighter. I prefer to wait to see what really happens before pointing fingers and screaming just to hear the sound of my own voice.
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If 1986 Part Deux, only much, much bigger occurs, I will be the first to grab a lighter. I prefer to wait to see what really happens before pointing fingers and screaming just to hear the sound of my own voice.
Well, if one is studying statements and positions - we have absolutely no idea what will actually happen given the fact Trump is all over the map on his positions regarding it. I do believe his statement of 'Get me something, anything and I will sign it" is likely the most accurate indicator of what will occur. Then when you factor in the GOP leadership's position on DACA and amnesty - which coincides with what the Democrats want (just a lesser degree), you can say we should wait to see what happens, but we can all likely guess the outcome.
I'm more amused by watching Trump's fawning supporters who vehemently insisted during the campaign that ending illegal immigration and building the wall was numero dos in importance just below 'Stopping Hillary', now telling us that Amnesty is inevitable, and how Glorious it will be when Trump oversees and manages it.
(https://swordattheready.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/trumpsupporter.jpg)
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Ah, that's how you spin it. The traditional "you're too stupid to understand what he's doing", and the "somehow this works in 13 dimensional chess". Got it.
Is that what you think you're seeing? "13 Dimensional chess"?
LOL! It's not quite THAT complicated for some of us.
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Well, if one is studying statements and positions - we have absolutely no idea what will actually happen given the fact Trump is all over the map on his positions regarding it. I do believe his statement of 'Get me something, anything and I will sign it" is likely the most accurate indicator of what will occur. Then when you factor in the GOP leadership's position on DACA and amnesty - which coincides with what the Democrats want (just a lesser degree), you can say we should wait to see what happens, but we can all likely guess the outcome.
I'm more amused by watching Trump's fawning supporters who vehemently insisted during the campaign that ending illegal immigration and building the wall was numero dos in importance just below 'Stopping Hillary', now telling us that Amnesty is inevitable, and how Glorious it will be when Trump oversees and manages it.
(https://swordattheready.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/trumpsupporter.jpg)
I assume that no matter how this ends, you and some others here that have rent their garments and set their hair on fire will continue to bitch.
I do not appreciate you lumping all of us that voted for Trump into your “twist†caricature. I have held out hope from the beginning that Trump is playing Schumer as Trump knows Schumer well. If it turns out that is not the case, I, and many others here, will be first in line to rail against Trump, but I think you know that. You simply prefer to belittle us all as a group as it makes you feel superior as is often your need. Or is it that you probably suspect Trump playing Schumer is what is happening yourself and want to be able to ridicule us all in future regardless of the outcome?
I am losing respect for you with these posts, honestly.
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I assume that no matter how this ends, you and some others here that have rent their garments and set their hair on fire will continue to bitch.
I do not appreciate you lumping all of us that voted for Trump into your “twist†caricature. I have held out hope from the beginning that Trump is playing Schumer as Trump knows Schumer well. If it turns out that is not the case, I, and many others here, will be first in line to rail against Trump, but I think you know that. You simply prefer to belittle us all as a group as it makes you feel superior as is often your need. Or is it that you probably suspect Trump playing Schumer is what is happening yourself and want to be able to ridicule us all in future regardless of the outcome?
I am losing respect for you with these posts, honestly.
Playing Schumer? I'm still trying to figure out what people don't understand about Trump granting 1.8 million a path to citizenship isn't comprehended? Plain and simple it's amnesty. Keep in mind that the figure has grown from granting amnesty to 800,000 to 1.8 million! The only 'people' that are getting played are Trump supporters who are jumping for joy at this and thinking that Trump must have something up his sleeve and they're waiting in anticipation for his next move which will rattle the leftists!! Meanwhile -- he has asked the SCOTUS to consider ruling on DACA -- the only glimmer of hope is if the SCOTUS decides that DACA was unconstitutional to begin with -- but then Trump's already stated that he's willing to grant amnesty -- the grand bargainer played his supporters BIGLY!
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/24/us/politics/trump-immigration-daca-dreamers-path-to-citizenship.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/24/us/politics/trump-immigration-daca-dreamers-path-to-citizenship.html)
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/24/trump-open-to-citizenship-daca-dreamers-367515 (https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/24/trump-open-to-citizenship-daca-dreamers-367515)
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/25/trump-amnesty-cover-18-million-dreamers/ (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/25/trump-amnesty-cover-18-million-dreamers/)
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Is that what you think you're seeing? "13 Dimensional chess"?
LOL! It's not quite THAT complicated for some of us.
So simple you can't even explain it.
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I assume that no matter how this ends, you and some others here that have rent their garments and set their hair on fire will continue to bitch.
Well, cheerleaders for Trump have stated that not only do they not want any support from those of us who did not vote for Trump, one of them on this board actually emphatically stated that any applause, agreement or support from me would harm Trump's 'brand'.
Continuing to 'bitch' is what Trump's most loyal fanatics obviously want if recalcitrants do not pledge 100% fealty, devotion and loyalty to Trump.
So I will keep any positive remarks about anything Trump says or does to myself and simply 'bitch' as I feel moved to do. For now, all the backpedalling contortions are highly amusing to me.
I do not appreciate you lumping all of us that voted for Trump into your “twist†caricature.
Do you consider yourself a 'fawning Trump supporter'? Do you contort yourself into twists of pretzel logic to justify positions wholly contrary to what you campaigned for Trump on? That is whom the graphic is serving to illustrate.
You simply prefer to belittle us all as a group as it makes you feel superior as is often your need.
The same can be said of rabid Trump supporters who feel the need to poke everyone else in the eye that isn't 100% devoted to Trump with a wonderful assortment of essays, blog hit pieces, ridicule and Alinsky's most potent weapons when they feel the need to celebrate 'winning'.
Or is it that you probably suspect Trump playing Schumer is what is happening yourself and want to be able to ridicule us all in future regardless of the outcome?
I cannot say or guess what maneuvering Trump is or is not doing. He is continually all over the map and on every side of every issue. Whatever he does is somehow tied into whatever he thinks will make him look good.
I said I think the truth of Trump saying he would sign anything is probably the closest to the truth. The fact a few in Congress have refused to budge on the position they promised their voters - has made sending 'anything' to Trump's desk the miasma of mess it is, which is a good thing.
That does not diminish the fact Trump and his followers campaigned that he would end illegal immigration, build a wall and say NO to amnesty to the illegals that are here. I am reading a litany of backpedalling contortions from his supporters about why none of those things should now be expected - even though they were promised. Instead we read that we should accept the inevitable amnesty and lack of a wall because it will benefit the Republican Party and the Democrats as 'more winning'!
I am losing respect for you with these posts, honestly.
Well, I am not expecting to win friends by posting my observations. We live in a time where no one wants to hear opinions if it conflicts with their views.
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Playing Schumer? I'm still trying to figure out what people don't understand about Trump granting 1.8 million a path to citizenship isn't comprehended? Plain and simple it's amnesty. Keep in mind that the figure has grown from granting amnesty to 800,000 to 1.8 million! The only 'people' that are getting played are Trump supporters who are jumping for joy at this and thinking that Trump must have something up his sleeve and they're waiting in anticipation for his next move which will rattle the leftists!! Meanwhile -- he has asked the SCOTUS to consider ruling on DACA -- the only glimmer of hope is if the SCOTUS decides that DACA was unconstitutional to begin with -- but then Trump's already stated that he's willing to grant amnesty -- the grand bargainer played his supporters BIGLY!
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/24/us/politics/trump-immigration-daca-dreamers-path-to-citizenship.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/24/us/politics/trump-immigration-daca-dreamers-path-to-citizenship.html)
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/24/trump-open-to-citizenship-daca-dreamers-367515 (https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/24/trump-open-to-citizenship-daca-dreamers-367515)
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/25/trump-amnesty-cover-18-million-dreamers/ (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/25/trump-amnesty-cover-18-million-dreamers/)
You may be right, but I don’t think so. I think he threw out that great big number to make it appear that he is bending over backwards to work with the cretins knowing full well that Schumer would not agree to it. If it goes as I think it will, the Dems are going to lose big-time on this. I think we’ll either get the original 800K, or even better, none at all. I am well aware that I may be completely wrong on this, and if so, I will gladly eat crow and vilify Trump with the rest of you, but from Trump’s past mechanations, I think he’s playing a political game that might help us in 2018. I prefer to wait to see how it all plays out before having my hissy fit.
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Bottom line is 70% of those immigrants here today legally come from chain migration. Given the high ratio of immigrants below the poverty line and on public assistance obviously the nation would benefit greatly by chucking chain migration altogether & going to a merit based system.
What I think is that merit is very good. If they don't have some kind of college degree already stay home and get one on your own government. Mexico has an immigration policy that you have to have so much in the bank to move there. You also have to show you are capable of a certain income.
What that tells me is they are taking in the best and we are taking in the ones that need food, healthcare, dental, housing and cash assistance.
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You may be right, but I don’t think so. I think he threw out that great big number to make it appear that he is bending over backwards to work with the cretins knowing full well that Schumer would not agree to it. If it goes as I think it will, the Dems are going to lose big-time on this. I think we’ll either get the original 800K, or even better, none at all. I am well aware that I may be completely wrong on this, and if so, I will gladly eat crow and vilify Trump with the rest of you, but from Trump’s past mechanations, I think he’s playing a political game that might help us in 2018. I prefer to wait to see how it all plays out before having my hissy fit.
I would agree with you on this except, he's already agreed to giving them citizenship. Why would the DEMS not jump on this? It gives them the additional voting base that they need to get the majority in both houses and retain the majority.
Either way you look at this Trump backpedaled on this issue. He specifically said "NO AMNESTY" and is now willing to grant citizenship, so I'm really trying to understand how his supporters are justifying his actions on this. There is no justification. His supporters are cheering him on, for what? What has he gained for this country on this issue?
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What I think is that merit is very good. If they don't have some kind of college degree already stay home and get one on your own government. Mexico has an immigration policy that you have to have so much in the bank to move there. You also have to show you are capable of a certain income.
What that tells me is they are taking in the best and we are taking in the ones that need food, healthcare, dental, housing and cash assistance.
If Trump had any real balls, he would publicly assert our need to mimic and adopt the exact immigration policies of Mexico and other nations that are importing their dregs of society here for free handouts at our expense.
He can call it The Trump Reciprocal Immigration Policy Act of 2018.
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Well, cheerleaders for Trump have stated that not only do they not want any support from those of us who did not vote for Trump, one of them on this board actually emphatically stated that any applause, agreement or support from me would harm Trump's 'brand'.
Continuing to 'bitch' is what Trump's most loyal fanatics obviously want if recalcitrants do not pledge 100% fealty, devotion and loyalty to Trump.
So I will keep any positive remarks about anything Trump says or does to myself and simply 'bitch' as I feel moved to do. For now, all the backpedalling contortions are highly amusing to me.
Do you consider yourself a 'fawning Trump supporter'? Do you contort yourself into twists of pretzel logic to justify positions wholly contrary to what you campaigned for Trump on? That is whom the graphic is serving to illustrate.
The same can be said of rabid Trump supporters who feel the need to poke everyone else in the eye that isn't 100% devoted to Trump with a wonderful assortment of essays, blog hit pieces, ridicule and Alinsky's most potent weapons when they feel the need to celebrate 'winning'.
I cannot say or guess what maneuvering Trump is or is not doing. He is continually all over the map and on every side of every issue. Whatever he does is somehow tied into whatever he thinks will make him look good.
I said I think the truth of Trump saying he would sign anything is probably the closest to the truth. The fact a few in Congress have refused to budge on the position they promised their voters - has made sending 'anything' to Trump's desk the miasma of mess it is, which is a good thing.
That does not diminish the fact Trump and his followers campaigned that he would end illegal immigration, build a wall and say NO to amnesty to the illegals that are here. I am reading a litany of backpedalling contortions from his supporters about why none of those things should now be expected - even though they were promised. Instead we read that we should accept the inevitable amnesty and lack of a wall because it will benefit the Republican Party and the Democrats as 'more winning'!
Well, I am not expecting to win friends by posting my observations. We live in a time where no one wants to hear opinions if it conflicts with their views.
I didn’t read the entire post as it is “TL;DRâ€, but I did read up to “Do you consider yourself a fawning Trump supporter?â€
No, I do not, but have been called one plenty of times on this forum. I grow increasingly tired of being derided for my vote against HRC. I am also sick of the silliness from both sides for decisions made two years ago, both of which I understand. I wish the lot of you would buck up, grow up, and get over it, but i realize that some are too damned full of self-importance to do it.
As for the crap that was said to you, I personally apologize for whoever said it. I assume it was said in anger as I admit to thinking it myself a time or too lately and apologize for those thoughts. Some of you act like holding onto your vote/support while waving it in our faces like a lollipop that should get your asses kissed to get it. I personally don’t give a tinker’s damn how you vote or who you support. It’s YOUR vote and support, use it as you wish. I will use mine to do what I think is best overall for the country as I’m sure you will as well. With just a few exceptions here, I think almost every single one of us wants what is best for this country including you. Thinking this is why some here aggravate me to the point I’d like to bitch-slap the lot of you on both sides as I think some just wish to be argumentative for argument’s sake.
By all means, carry on. I’m off to do something constructive as opposed to wasting my day arguing over something that I have no control or actual knowledge as I am not privy to Trump’s thoughts. I choose to wait to see what happens before bitching and hoping in the meantime that what I think is going to happen does.
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If Trump had any real balls, he would publicly assert our need to mimic and adopt the exact immigration policies of Mexico and other nations that are importing their dregs of society here for free handouts at our expense.
He can call it The Trump Reciprocal Immigration Policy Act of 2018.
I really like your idea ... but I honestly believe at this point in time, it is his intent to grant amnesty. Perhaps by a long stretch he's thinking that in doing so it may give the GOP a larger voting base because it was the GOP that granted amnesty? That I'm afraid is going to backfire bigly as the MSM will never, ever focus on the GOP doing anything positive for the poor, discriminated against illegals.
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I would agree with you on this except, he's already agreed to giving them citizenship. Why would the DEMS not jump on this? It gives them the additional voting base that they need to get the majority in both houses and retain the majority.
Either way you look at this Trump backpedaled on this issue. He specifically said "NO AMNESTY" and is now willing to grant citizenship, so I'm really trying to understand how his supporters are justifying his actions on this. There is no justification. His supporters are cheering him on, for what? What has he gained for this country on this issue?
He's agreed to give them A PATH to citizenship. And that makes sense.
Anything less would be a mortal blow to the GOP brand which, like it or not, is being salvaged by an 'Outsider'.
What's being gained? An opportunity to disprove the visage that the GOP doesn't care about illegals and Dreamers.
And of course a chance to end Chain-Migration and overhaul our immigration system.
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He's agreed to give them A PATH to citizenship.
I’m not sure how to break this to you, but that path doesn’t have a southbound heading, leading to a one-way turnstile at the wall.
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I didn’t read the entire post as it is “TL;DRâ€, but I did read up to “Do you consider yourself a fawning Trump supporter?â€
No, I do not, but have been called one plenty of times on this forum. I grow increasingly tired of being derided for my vote against HRC.
You had every right to vote as you wanted, for the reasons that motivated you. I didn't have issues with anyone who voted for Trump because they could not stand the idea of The Pantsuit as Prez. I never derided anyone for choosing Trump as a way to stop Hillary. My issues were always with those who were emphatic that unless we vote for Trump - we are casting a vote for Hillary; and that only Trump can 'save us'. I am a vehement opponent of getting involved with mass movements and jumping on bandwagon trains.
I am also sick of the silliness from both sides for decisions made two years ago, both of which I understand. I wish the lot of you would buck up, grow up, and get over it, but i realize that some are too damned full of self-importance to do it.
Consequences of a nasty primary and general election cycle that essentially shit all over anyone who was motivated by principles as opposed to pragmatism. There was a massive paradigm shift away from foundational principles and as such, a lot of the vehement arguments are over the loss of those versus those arguing that they are dead weight and needed to be jettisoned.
As for the crap that was said to you, I personally apologize for whoever said it.
I appreciate that, but it is not your place to personally apologize for things you did not say, or for what others have said and done. I am not personally bothered by what they say - other than to use those opportunities to opine and discuss the devolution of what was once assumed to be Conservatism, and the portents of what becomes of it now.
Some of you act like holding onto your vote/support while waving it in our faces like a lollipop that should get your asses kissed to get it.
Oh I don't know, judging the fruits of the GOP over the last 8 years is not exactly a lesson in why voting for Republicans benefits Conservatism and the Constitution. But, we live in a time where simply stating what our culture once considered to be a moral position will earn you the charge of being 'morally superior' which today is regarded as a vile evil. By self-identifying Conservatives no less. Then again, some of those same folks declared us to be traitors and enemies of the country for withholding our vote for Trump.
So much for a common bridge of liberty upon which we stand.
I personally don’t give a tinker’s damn how you vote or who you support. It’s YOUR vote and support, use it as you wish. I will use mine to do what I think is best overall for the country as I’m sure you will as well. With just a few exceptions here, I think almost every single one of us wants what is best for this country including you.
If only the rest of the rabid Trump faithful had that same mindset you just described of yourself. Nearly all the nastiness of the last two years would not have existed among Conservatives.
I choose to wait to see what happens before bitching and hoping in the meantime that what I think is going to happen does.
Good for you.
However, some of us are interested in reminding Trump supporters of their promise that they would hold his feet to the fire on these key issues if he won.
Which is why reading the backpedalling contortions of justification for NOT holding his feet to the fire and supporting what he was supposedly going to stop - is just another discussion about what happens when jumping onto a boat with a giant sail in wild seas without a rudder.
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I'd love to know exactly what kind of bill Ted would support. We'll find out soon, that's for sure.
Why does he need a bill?
There are existing laws already that just need to be enforced.
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Why does he need a bill?
There are existing laws already that just need to be enforced.
:amen:
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@jpsb
Gosh you're funny.
What's funny about they guy being a babbling idiot?
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<snip>
I’m off to do something constructive as opposed to wasting my day arguing over something that I have no control or actual knowledge as I am not privy to Trump’s thoughts. I choose to wait to see what happens before bitching and hoping in the meantime that what I think is going to happen does.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Why does he need a bill?
There are existing laws already that just need to be enforced.
Existing immigration law is not based on merit, permits extended chain migration, does not fund a physical wall or outlaw a Visa lottery.... we need a revised law to end these travesties. Getting all of this, IMO, is the reason for the negotiations (battle) about to begin over DACA.
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If Trump had any real balls, he would publicly assert our need to mimic and adopt the exact immigration policies of Mexico and other nations that are importing their dregs of society here for free handouts at our expense.
He can call it The Trump Reciprocal Immigration Policy Act of 2018.
Mexican immigration
https://www.mexperience.com/financial-criteria-for-residency-in-mexico/ (https://www.mexperience.com/financial-criteria-for-residency-in-mexico/)
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Existing immigration law is not based on merit, permits extended chain migration, does not fund a physical wall or outlaw a Visa lottery.... we need a revised law to end these travesties. Getting all of this, IMO, is the reason for the negotiations (battle) about to begin over DACA.
The existing immigration laws are enforced by the executive branch. None of the lotteries or chain applications equal automatic entry. If that WH graphic previously posted is accurate, there’s a DC population amount of immigrants in the US over the past year, only because they allowed it. This whole fan dance about reform via leverage with DACA is a joke. They never needed it to get anything done, if the were actually serious.
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Existing immigration law is not based on merit, permits extended chain migration, does not fund a physical wall or outlaw a Visa lottery.... we need a revised law to end these travesties. Getting all of this, IMO, is the reason for the negotiations (battle) about to begin over DACA.
The overwhelming problem with immigration is not what you mention, but that it is NOT ENFORCED.
One MUST enforce immigration law prior to doing any more new immigration laws.
We learned that in 1986.
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Playing Schumer? I'm still trying to figure out what people don't understand about Trump granting 1.8 million a path to citizenship isn't comprehended? Plain and simple it's amnesty. Keep in mind that the figure has grown from granting amnesty to 800,000 to 1.8 million! The only 'people' that are getting played are Trump supporters who are jumping for joy at this and thinking that Trump must have something up his sleeve and they're waiting in anticipation for his next move which will rattle the leftists!! Meanwhile -- he has asked the SCOTUS to consider ruling on DACA -- the only glimmer of hope is if the SCOTUS decides that DACA was unconstitutional to begin with -- but then Trump's already stated that he's willing to grant amnesty -- the grand bargainer played his supporters BIGLY!
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/24/us/politics/trump-immigration-daca-dreamers-path-to-citizenship.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/24/us/politics/trump-immigration-daca-dreamers-path-to-citizenship.html)
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/24/trump-open-to-citizenship-daca-dreamers-367515 (https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/24/trump-open-to-citizenship-daca-dreamers-367515)
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/25/trump-amnesty-cover-18-million-dreamers/ (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/25/trump-amnesty-cover-18-million-dreamers/)
The number is wrong if you figure immediate family can then legally immigrate (so what if they are already here). The actual number grows to around 4-5 million at least.
But as great as that sounds the Rats won't go for it if the wall gets built. They are already winning with the steady drip, drip, drip of illegals coming here and starting families. Look at CA, with the highest poverty rate in the country and now a declared sanctuary state. The Rats know time and demographics are on their side. They don't care about this country. They only want power and control over everyone and if it means ending the republic and creating a totalitarian socialist state they are happy to do it as long as they are the ones in power.
So the only way the Rats agree to anything is if it's amnesty with no wall, no end to chain migration, and no end to the lottery.
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He's agreed to give them A PATH to citizenship. And that makes sense.
Anything less would be a mortal blow to the GOP brand which, like it or not, is being salvaged by an 'Outsider'.
What's being gained? An opportunity to disprove the visage that the GOP doesn't care about illegals and Dreamers.
And of course a chance to end Chain-Migration and overhaul our immigration system.
Good points.
In the end I don't see anything getting done, but the Pubs will be able to campaign on the point that unlike the Rats they offered real solutions. It should go well with the suburban soccer mons who love their nannies, housekeepers and lawn service people.
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Agreed. Amnesty for the Dreamers is both morally appropriate, and a small price to pay to get at least some of the immigration priorities that conservatives want. Let's get the best bargain we can and make some incremental progress. Doing nothing gets us - nothing (no matter how much we bitch and moan about the evil scofflaws who cut our lawns, care for our parents, etc., etc.)
Riiiiight.
Like closing the barn door after all the horses have left.
Sheer stupidity.
And like the last time, I'll bet the money for the wall, supposedly kept in trust, will never go toward building anything.
Just like last time, A promise to pay on Tuesday for a taco today.
Massive amnesty and no fix.
We've played this game before.
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Trump is only talking about the DACA kids. Everyone knew something other than deportation
was going to happen to the DACA kids.
That's just about everybody who has crossed illegally since 1986
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Riiiiight.
Like closing the barn door after all the horses have left.
Sheer stupidity.
And like the last time, I'll bet the money for the wall, supposedly kept in trust, will never go toward building anything.
Just like last time, A promise to pay on Tuesday for a taco today.
Massive amnesty and no fix.
We've played this game before.
Indeed we have. To ask for money to be put in trust for a wall? 9999hair out0000 It'll amount to a slush fund at best.
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Indeed we have. To ask for money to be put in trust for a wall? 9999hair out0000 It'll amount to a slush fund at best.
YEP. I will resort to my old mantra - one said all the way along.
Build the fence. Enforce the law.
Do that for a decade and THEN we can talk about amnesty for whatever is left.
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This new proposal by Trump is NOT the kind of proposal someone makes after winning the shut down fight.
What he's done is double down on what he bashed the Libs for proposing.
I guess Amnesty Don couldn't let Chuck and Nancy out do him.
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This new proposal by Trump is NOT the kind of proposal someone makes after winning the shut down fight.
What he's done is double down on what he bashed the Libs for proposing.
I guess Amnesty Don couldn't let Chuck and Nancy out do him.
No - it’s just his masterful 3D, intergalactic ninja skills in play, once again...... *****rollingeyes*****
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
·
10h
I have offered DACA a wonderful deal, including a doubling in the number of recipients & a twelve year pathway to citizenship, for two reasons: (1) Because the Republicans want to fix a long time terrible problem. (2) To show that Democrats do not want to solve DACA, only use it!
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump
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Well, I see Cruz was all over the Sunday talk shows promoting his plan for the Dreamers. :smokin:
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Well, I see Cruz was all over the Sunday talk shows promoting his plan for the Dreamers. :smokin:
I rushed to see what shows Ted Cruz was on but, sadly, he wasn't on any.
Unless you have info you haven't shared.
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Well, I see Cruz was all over the Sunday talk shows promoting his plan for the Dreamers. :smokin:
I'm sure he would have been happy to, but he doesn't have any control over what the people booking find topical or important this week - like the flailing Joe Manchin, for instance.
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I'm sure he would have been happy to, but he doesn't have any control over what the people booking find topical or important this week - like the flailing Joe Manchin, for instance.
Yes, of course he doesn't. Besides, the media would never want to put a wedge between the President and the Senator. :smokin:
Or maybe, just maybe, no one cares. :cool:
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Yes, of course he doesn't. Besides, the media would never want to put a wedge between the President and the Senator. :smokin:
Or maybe, just maybe, no one cares. :cool:
I care. I'd like to see what he has to say on the subject. Still wondering where you got the info about Ted Cruz being on all the shows.
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I care. I'd like to see what he has to say on the subject. Still wondering where you got the info about Ted Cruz being on all the shows.
It was sarcasm @Emjay .... my point is Cruz wasn't on the talk shows this morning. :laugh:
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I care. I'd like to see what he has to say on the subject. Still wondering where you got the info about Ted Cruz being on all the shows.
I think it might have been sarcasm....
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I think it might have been sarcasm....
Or, just a fail.
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Or, just a fail.
It was sarcasm @Sanguine .... but thanks for playing.
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It was sarcasm @Sanguine .... but thanks for playing.
Maybe you need to put the /S tag on for me. I scurried around like crazy trying to find Ted anywhere.
He will find a way to get his feelings out on this though. (not sarcasm.)
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Maybe you need to put the /S tag on for me. I scurried around like crazy trying to find Ted anywhere. ...
My apologies @Emjay I assure you there was an absence of malice in my original post. I truly thought the sarcasm was self evident.
I will do better next time. Promise. :laugh:
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My apologies @Emjay I assure you there was an absence of malice in my original post. I truly thought the sarcasm was self evident.
I will do better next time. Promise. :laugh:
I figured it was sarcasm as you're not fond of Cruz. Cruz has made his feelings known -- "Trump's Amnesty compromise - Forget It! I think (unless there's a problem with comprehension) that's pretty much a "NO" to amnesty. If you want to go back over the past several years regarding his stance on amnesty, my hunch is you'd probably be able to do a 'google search'. Cruz will at least show up on a google search for you.
The issue actually IS Trump has stated that he wants AMNESTY! To that I say, "NO" and "HELL NO"! and yes, I agree with Ted's "Forget It"!
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I figured it was sarcasm as you're not fond of Cruz. Cruz has made his feelings known -- "Trump's Amnesty compromise - Forget It! I think (unless there's a problem with comprehension) that's pretty much a "NO" to amnesty. If you want to go back over the past several years regarding his stance on amnesty, my hunch is you'd probably be able to do a 'google search'. Cruz will at least show up on a google search for you.
The issue actually IS Trump has stated that he wants AMNESTY! To that I say, "NO" and "HELL NO"! and yes, I agree with Ted's "Forget It"!
I am trying to hold my fire on this issue until I find out exactly what Trump is offering and what it will entail.
We need to do something about illegal situation ... it won't go away on its own.
Does Trump's plan give us enough good stuff to outweigh what he's giving up?
That is why I want more details about Cruz's objections.
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I am trying to hold my fire on this issue until I find out exactly what Trump is offering and what it will entail.
We need to do something about illegal situation ... it won't go away on its own.
Does Trump's plan give us enough good stuff to outweigh what he's giving up?
That is why I want more details about Cruz's objections.
That is very level-headed AND Compassionate of you @Emjay, as usual, it's one of the many reasons I am so endeared to your thought process in spite of our differences on some issues.
Thanks for being here. (notice the lack of a /s)
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Or, just a fail.
I vote fail.
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No - it’s just his masterful 3D, intergalactic ninja skills in play, once again...... *****rollingeyes*****
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
·
10h
I have offered DACA a wonderful deal, including a doubling in the number of recipients & a twelve year pathway to citizenship, for two reasons: (1) Because the Republicans want to fix a long time terrible problem. (2) To show that Democrats do not want to solve DACA, only use it!
https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump
What Amnesty Don doesn't realize is that if he does nothing on DACA...because it's was an EO and not law it's about to expire in a couple months.
The smart move would be to just wait out the clock.
But this is Amnesty Don we're talking about here.
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I am trying to hold my fire on this issue until I find out exactly what Trump is offering and what it will entail.
We need to do something about illegal situation ... it won't go away on its own.
Does Trump's plan give us enough good stuff to outweigh what he's giving up?
That is why I want more details about Cruz's objections.
Nothing outweighs giving up the sovereignty of this country and that's exactly what amnesty will do. You are right, illegals aren't going to go away on their own. Take away the benefits and some will self-deport and I believe deportation is warranted. Offer to those that self-deport a chance to enter legally after 7-10 years (with fines and stipulations) and those that don't self-deport will NEVER have a chance to enter legally. As for amnesty; FORGET IT!
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This new proposal by Trump is NOT the kind of proposal someone makes after winning the shut down fight.
What he's done is double down on what he bashed the Libs for proposing.
I guess Amnesty Don couldn't let Chuck and Nancy out do him.
Do you remember this exchange in the Presidential debates between Cruz and Trump?
Ted Cruz: ‘Donald Funded the Gang of Eight’
Cruz said, “Well, existing law provides that those who are deported cannot come back here legally. U.S. citizens can come back. That’s existing law. But let me say, Wolf, I really find it amazing that Donald believes that he is the one who discovered the issue of illegal immigration. I can tell you, when I ran for senate here in the state of Texas, I ran promising to lead the fight against amnesty, promising to fight to build a wall, and in 2013, when I was leading the fight against the Gang of Eight amnesty bill, where was Donald? He was firing Dennis Rodman on “Celebrity Apprentice†and indeed, if you look at the Gang of Eight, one individual on this stage broke his promise to the men and women who elected him and wrote the amnesty bill, but Donald funded the Gang of Eight. If you look at the eight members of the Gang of Eight, Donald gave over $50,000 to three Democrats and two Republicans. And when you’re funding open border politicians, you shouldn’t be surprised when they fight for open borders. And I think if you want to know who actually will secure the borders and follow through, you ought to ask, who has a record before they were a candidate for president, of fighting to secure the borders and stop amnesty, and I’m the only one on this stage that has that record. And by the way, Marco is exactly right, that a federal court found Donald guilty of being part of a conspiracy to hire people illegally and entered a $1 million judgment against him.â€
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016/02/25/ted-cruz-donald-funded-the-gang-of-eight/ (http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016/02/25/ted-cruz-donald-funded-the-gang-of-eight/)
****sheep**** Well President Trump was Ted correct are you going to be an amnesty president? Are you going to let the American people who voted for you down? I hope not.
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Do you remember this exchange in the Presidential debates between Cruz and Trump?
Ted Cruz: ‘Donald Funded the Gang of Eight’
Cruz said, “Well, existing law provides that those who are deported cannot come back here legally. U.S. citizens can come back. That’s existing law. But let me say, Wolf, I really find it amazing that Donald believes that he is the one who discovered the issue of illegal immigration. I can tell you, when I ran for senate here in the state of Texas, I ran promising to lead the fight against amnesty, promising to fight to build a wall, and in 2013, when I was leading the fight against the Gang of Eight amnesty bill, where was Donald? He was firing Dennis Rodman on “Celebrity Apprentice†and indeed, if you look at the Gang of Eight, one individual on this stage broke his promise to the men and women who elected him and wrote the amnesty bill, but Donald funded the Gang of Eight. If you look at the eight members of the Gang of Eight, Donald gave over $50,000 to three Democrats and two Republicans. And when you’re funding open border politicians, you shouldn’t be surprised when they fight for open borders. And I think if you want to know who actually will secure the borders and follow through, you ought to ask, who has a record before they were a candidate for president, of fighting to secure the borders and stop amnesty, and I’m the only one on this stage that has that record. And by the way, Marco is exactly right, that a federal court found Donald guilty of being part of a conspiracy to hire people illegally and entered a $1 million judgment against him.â€
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016/02/25/ted-cruz-donald-funded-the-gang-of-eight/ (http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016/02/25/ted-cruz-donald-funded-the-gang-of-eight/)
****sheep**** Well President Trump was Ted correct are you going to be an amnesty president? Are you going to let the American people who voted for you down? I hope not.
I hope not either. goopo
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I hope not either. goopo
Illegal immigration is the one biggest issue to me. Unless he comes through on this he isn't getting re-elected. I don't care what any poll says. They aren't correct and I am sure illegal aliens like to participate in polling also.
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Illegal immigration is the one biggest issue to me. Unless he comes through on this he isn't getting re-elected. I don't care what any poll says. They aren't correct and I am sure illegal aliens like to participate in polling also.
Illegal immigration is one of THEE biggest issues to me as well. Those that think this is no big deal should really take a closer look as to what has happened over in EU (demographics are a little different but the outcome will be the same). Imagine what it's going to be like to grant millions citizenship who in turn will invite their cousins, aunts, uncles over here as well. For the most part the 20,000,000+ who are here aren't assimilating and a disproportionate number of them commit crimes and crimes against our citizenry. I really don't understand how people fail to see the severity of the situation.
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Nothing outweighs giving up the sovereignty of this country and that's exactly what amnesty will do. You are right, illegals aren't going to go away on their own. Take away the benefits and some will self-deport and I believe deportation is warranted. Offer to those that self-deport a chance to enter legally after 7-10 years (with fines and stipulations) and those that don't self-deport will NEVER have a chance to enter legally. As for amnesty; FORGET IT!
Sounds like a plan. As for the wall, I'm not that interested in the wall. It is logistically impossible for it to be built across the entire border from Mexico and there are less costly methods that could work as well if we do them.
Empower border security agents. Employ technology. Use drones. Deport instantly ...
Just a few examples.
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Besides all that I am more interested in keeping muslims out. Mexicans, yeah, but muslims really change a society and scare the heck out of me.
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Do you remember this exchange in the Presidential debates between Cruz and Trump?
Ted Cruz: ‘Donald Funded the Gang of Eight’
Cruz said, “Well, existing law provides that those who are deported cannot come back here legally. U.S. citizens can come back. That’s existing law. But let me say, Wolf, I really find it amazing that Donald believes that he is the one who discovered the issue of illegal immigration. I can tell you, when I ran for senate here in the state of Texas, I ran promising to lead the fight against amnesty, promising to fight to build a wall, and in 2013, when I was leading the fight against the Gang of Eight amnesty bill, where was Donald? He was firing Dennis Rodman on “Celebrity Apprentice†and indeed, if you look at the Gang of Eight, one individual on this stage broke his promise to the men and women who elected him and wrote the amnesty bill, but Donald funded the Gang of Eight. If you look at the eight members of the Gang of Eight, Donald gave over $50,000 to three Democrats and two Republicans. And when you’re funding open border politicians, you shouldn’t be surprised when they fight for open borders. And I think if you want to know who actually will secure the borders and follow through, you ought to ask, who has a record before they were a candidate for president, of fighting to secure the borders and stop amnesty, and I’m the only one on this stage that has that record. And by the way, Marco is exactly right, that a federal court found Donald guilty of being part of a conspiracy to hire people illegally and entered a $1 million judgment against him.â€
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016/02/25/ted-cruz-donald-funded-the-gang-of-eight/ (http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016/02/25/ted-cruz-donald-funded-the-gang-of-eight/)
****sheep**** Well President Trump was Ted correct are you going to be an amnesty president? Are you going to let the American people who voted for you down? I hope not.
I remember that well.
I think the people that voted for him for his promises of being tough on amnesty and illegals are going to be in for a big surprise.
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I remember that well.
I think the people that voted for him for his promises of being tough on amnesty and illegals are going to be in for a big surprise.
Yes, me too. But dissing Trump for his TV past is passe.
I'm waiting to see what he actually does before I turn on him. Cruz had much more experience with the dangers of illegals than Trump ever did living in Trump Towers.
Cruz was in Texas. Texas, by the way, has handled the problem a lot better than California.
We shall see what we shall see.
But so far I have not seen evidence that Trump will disappoint on this issue.
And I'm not gonna sit around panting for him to fail because if Trump fails, we all fail.
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Illegal immigration is one of THEE biggest issues to me as well. Those that think this is no big deal should really take a closer look as to what has happened over in EU (demographics are a little different but the outcome will be the same). Imagine what it's going to be like to grant millions citizenship who in turn will invite their cousins, aunts, uncles over here as well. For the most part the 20,000,000+ who are here aren't assimilating and a disproportionate number of them commit crimes and crimes against our citizenry. I really don't understand how people fail to see the severity of the situation.
I don't either. It isn't just about demographics either but I agree that is huge. It is the safety of the citizens. (border is a crime business) The American jobs and the idea that we actually have rule of law. If we are without law it is tyranny.
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Do you remember this exchange in the Presidential debates between Cruz and Trump?
Ted Cruz: ‘Donald Funded the Gang of Eight’ ....
Do you remember this between Rubio and Cruz?
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I01hxu7uX_M#)
Or this:
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhBquoaSQRg#)
Or this:
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2tF3gcSe70#)
Or this:
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p-ggPszgfQ#)
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Besides all that I am more interested in keeping muslims out. Mexicans, yeah, but muslims really change a society and scare the heck out of me.
My guess is that you have not read up much on what happens in Mexico. Aside from the fact that ME terrorists are entering from this dilapidated fencing there is a cartel business at the border. If you do some searching on cartel crime, beheadings, human trafficking, rape on the border. And ME terrorists crossing Mexican border you might be a little more scared. I don't live far from the border and there are some devil hombre's coming in.
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What Amnesty Don doesn't realize is that if he does nothing on DACA...because it's was an EO and not law it's about to expire in a couple months.
The smart move would be to just wait out the clock.
But this is Amnesty Don we're talking about here.
One problem with tweeting to the world that your offer is just a stunt - you may get called on your bluff.
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One problem with tweeting to the world that your offer is just a stunt - you may get called on your bluff.
Exactly. Because now the Dems can take the 1.8 million number Trump vomited out and double that or just say "well lets just give amnesty for ALL of the 47 million illegals living in the country or we'll shut the government down."
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Sounds like a plan. As for the wall, I'm not that interested in the wall. It is logistically impossible for it to be built across the entire border from Mexico and there are less costly methods that could work as well if we do them.
Empower border security agents. Employ technology. Use drones. Deport instantly ...
Just a few examples.
@Emjay
A wall use useful in many areas. Not possible in other areas. Remove their ability to work in the US and it will cut the numbers significantly making everything else easier and cheaper.
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Exactly. Because now the Dems can take the 1.8 million number Trump vomited out and double that or just say "well lets just give amnesty for ALL of the 47 million illegals living in the country or we'll shut the government down."
:amen: Trump supporters really need to realize that the 'grand bargainer' isn't getting anything in return...a promise of a wall in the future and a promise to end chain migration coming from the DEMS is giving them the leverage and power to gain the voting advantage that they need to ensure that a Republican is never seated again.
I truly believe that this has been his agenda from the beginning. He's backpedaled on quite a few key issues and yet his supporters still rallied around him. Why do they continue to give him a 'pass' on everything?
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Nothing outweighs giving up the sovereignty of this country and that's exactly what amnesty will do. You are right, illegals aren't going to go away on their own. Take away the benefits and some will self-deport and I believe deportation is warranted. Offer to those that self-deport a chance to enter legally after 7-10 years (with fines and stipulations) and those that don't self-deport will NEVER have a chance to enter legally. As for amnesty; FORGET IT!
Eh, no, they will self deport once the laws on the books are enforced and they cannot get a job.
Federal law says it is illegal to hire someone here illegally.
How would they live if no one will hire them and no benefits are forthcoming?
They came here for the most part as they thought economic conditions would improve for them. Take away that incentive and they will return.
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Sounds like a plan. As for the wall, I'm not that interested in the wall. It is logistically impossible for it to be built across the entire border from Mexico and there are less costly methods that could work as well if we do them.
Empower border security agents. Employ technology. Use drones. Deport instantly ...
Just a few examples.
Well I disagree with you on the wall. We need a physical barrier in order to keep more people from pouring over our borders. I do know that in the past our border patrol agents have been ordered to stand down and were not allowed to carry long guns; therefore they were outnumbered and outgunned to begin with, so yes, empowering our border patrol is necessary. Keep in mind that they are not only up against people sneaking across the border but are up against the Mexican drug cartel and I wonder if our government still has their hands in the cookie jar (Fast 'n Furious). Sure you can have drones in the air, but you still need boots on the ground in order to apprehend. Yes immediate deportation would be nice, but for some reason, they apprehend, process and release them. I don't know if that has changed or not, I would hope so. I also question if we have border agents who aren't going to comply with deportation -- just like we have mayor and sheriffs who won't comply in sanctuary cities, etc. So again, a wall that is manned by border agents and drones would be much more efficient and effective.
As for not being able to put a complete wall up due to the terrain -- it can be done. You mean to tell me that we don't have engineers that could figure how to do so? It can be done, it's an excuse. Just like the environmentalists screaming that a wall is going to harm the environment, yet there are areas along the southern border where garbage and debris line the pathways before and after the inferior fencing that is now in place.
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Sounds like a plan. As for the wall, I'm not that interested in the wall. It is logistically impossible for it to be built across the entire border from Mexico and there are less costly methods that could work as well if we do them.
Empower border security agents. Employ technology. Use drones. Deport instantly ...
Just a few examples.
No one is talking about a wall along the entire border. Current thinking is 700 miles of wall, where a wall makes sense.
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Cruz was in Texas. Texas, by the way, has handled the problem a lot better than California.
We shall see what we shall see.
But so far I have not seen evidence that Trump will disappoint on this issue.
And I'm not gonna sit around panting for him to fail because if Trump fails, we all fail.
Trump is doing all he can, but nothing moves thru the Senate without 60 votes. We all need to vote in 2018 to give Trump those 60 votes.
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Trump is doing all he can, but nothing moves thru the Senate without 60 votes. We all need to vote in 2018 to give Trump those 60 votes.
Don’t kid yourself. Things can and have moved through the Senate with a simple majority. Having 60 R votes isn’t a quorum guarantee. In order to get that many, you’ll need more than a few RINOs elected. We already have them with 51.
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Trump is doing all he can, but nothing moves thru the Senate without 60 votes. We all need to vote in 2018 to give Trump those 60 votes.
If he was truly doing all he can on this...he'd just issue an EO cancelling the EO that Obama signed authorizing DACA and be done with it.
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Do you remember this between Rubio and Cruz?
Or this:
Or this:
Or this:
Excellent I'll just add this, Ted himself on legalizing illegals.
http://youtu.be/MrNWwgx5Cus?t=210 (http://youtu.be/MrNWwgx5Cus?t=210)
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Eh, no, they will self deport once the laws on the books are enforced and they cannot get a job.
Federal law says it is illegal to hire someone here illegally.
How would they live if no one will hire them and no benefits are forthcoming?
They came here for the most part as they thought economic conditions would improve for them. Take away that incentive and they will return.
Eh, I realize that there are laws on the books ... so ... you mean to tell me that supposedly once those laws are actually enforced, employers who are now paying illegals under the table are all of a sudden going to comply? Don't think so. I get take away there bennies and some will self deport -- yet there are lots that will stay as they've already figured a way around the system, and some are already surviving by illegal means anyways (imagine that).
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If he was truly doing all he can on this...he'd just issue an EO cancelling the EO that Obama signed authorizing DACA and be done with it.
Technically, he did.....with a 6 month fuse. Of course, he also said he could extend it beyond the deadline, if he wanted. After saying that and things like the DACA people didn’t need to worry, it wouldn’t be surprising if the Dems stall into March.
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:amen: Trump supporters really need to realize that the 'grand bargainer' isn't getting anything in return...
I respectfully suggest your crystal ball needs a good washing.
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@libertybele
See post 224. [comment removed - Mach]
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:amen: Trump supporters really need to realize that the 'grand bargainer' isn't getting anything in return...a promise of a wall in the future and a promise to end chain migration coming from the DEMS is giving them the leverage and power to gain the voting advantage that they need to ensure that a Republican is never seated again.
I truly believe that this has been his agenda from the beginning. He's backpedaled on quite a few key issues and yet his supporters still rallied around him. Why do they continue to give him a 'pass' on everything?
He's already admitted that talk of the wall and deportations was a political ploy that it's more important to the voters than it is to him.
They give him a pass because they've invested so much of themselves into him...trashed so many other people on his behalf and made so many bold predictions about how he was going to drain the swamp and make America Great Again (stolen from Reagan btw) that it would be too embarrassing and their egos are so big for them to admit they were taken for a ride or wrong about Trump doing everything he promised.
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I respectfully suggest your crystal ball needs a good washing.
So ... are you denying that Trump recently stated that he is open to amnesty for DACA recipients and a pathway to citizenship? As I recall Trump declared in his 2016 campaign “There will be no amnesty ...“day one, my first hour in office, those people are gone.†Last time I checked RIV, day one and his first hour in office is gone. So why are you giving him a pass on this? I would assume that you are o.k. then with amnesty?
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So ... are you denying that Trump recently stated that he is open to amnesty for DACA recipients and a pathway to citizenship? As I recall Trump declared in his 2016 campaign “There will be no amnesty ...“day one, my first hour in office, those people are gone.†Last time I checked RIV, day one and his first hour in office is gone. So why are you giving him a pass on this? I would assume that you are o.k. then with amnesty?
You could tell it wasn’t really important to him, or else it would be ‘bing-worthy.’
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pgwr9r36zIU
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So ... are you denying that Trump recently stated that he is open to amnesty for DACA recipients and a pathway to citizenship? As I recall Trump declared in his 2016 campaign “There will be no amnesty ...“day one, my first hour in office, those people are gone.†Last time I checked RIV, day one and his first hour in office is gone. So why are you giving him a pass on this? I would assume that you are o.k. then with amnesty?
All I'm saying @libertybele is you are on a tear ... and this process is just at its beginning. You have no better way of knowing what the end result will look like than have I, yet you argue as though we've a done deal. We do not. Putting the cart before the horse is simply not helpful to honest debate, IMO.
I clearly have more faith in the President than do you. And, I've been right more often than not when it comes to Donald Trump.
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All I'm saying @libertybele is you are on a tear ... and this process is just at its beginning. You have no better way of knowing what the end result will look like than have I, yet you argue as though we've a done deal. We do not. Putting the cart before the horse is simply not helpful to honest debate, IMO.
I clearly have more faith in the President than do you. And, I've been right more often than not when it comes to Donald Trump.
I understand clearly what you are saying, but the question still remains; are you denying that during the 2016 presidential campaign Trump stated “There will be no amnesty,†... “day one, my first hour in office, those people are gone.� You are correct we don't know what the end result will b, but the problem is ... was he lying during his campaign about amnesty or is he lying now about granting amnesty? Either he mean what he said during the campaign about no amnesty or he means what he's saying now about granting amnesty. I think that's pretty straightforward. I also think to give him a pass on this instead of holding his feet to the fire is a huge mistake. Perhaps his statement of "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters," is true. Very sad.
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:cross:
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I understand clearly what you are saying, but the question still remains; are you denying that during the 2016 presidential campaign Trump stated “There will be no amnesty,†... “day one, my first hour in office, those people are gone.� You are correct we don't know what the end result will b, but the problem is ... was he lying during his campaign about amnesty or is he lying now about granting amnesty? Either he mean what he said during the campaign about no amnesty or he means what he's saying now about granting amnesty. I think that's pretty straightforward. I also think to give him a pass on this instead of holding his feet to the fire is a huge mistake. Perhaps his statement of "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters," is true. Very sad.
My friend, I've nothing else at this point to say on this issue. When more is known, we'll talk then.
Thanks. @libertybele
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:cross:
Give it a rest @Sanguine
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If he was truly doing all he can on this...he'd just issue an EO cancelling the EO that Obama signed authorizing DACA and be done with it.
Wait. You are faulting him for NOT issuing an EO on DACA, which was an abuse of power back when Obama did it, as it circumvented Congress.... not to mention a temporary 'fix' as it can easily be undone by the next Demrat pres? And you are anti-Trump, right? Hmmm......
here's hoping that Trump doesn't take advice from folks that think as you do. ^-^
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Give it a rest @Sanguine
@Right_in_Virginia, my feelings are hurt! Why on earth did you think this was for you, and what did you think it meant?
You're going to make me cry.... 8888crybaby
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Eh, no, they will self deport once the laws on the books are enforced and they cannot get a job.
Federal law says it is illegal to hire someone here illegally.
How would they live if no one will hire them and no benefits are forthcoming?
They came here for the most part as they thought economic conditions would improve for them. Take away that incentive and they will return.
@IsailedawayfromFR
EXACTLY right!
Enforce the law as it exists today and we have to deport VERY few if any!
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Wait. You are faulting him for NOT issuing an EO on DACA, which was an abuse of power back when Obama did it, as it circumvented Congress.... not to mention a temporary 'fix' as it can easily be undone by the next Demrat pres? And you are anti-Trump, right? Hmmm......
here's hoping that Trump doesn't take advice from folks that think as you do. ^-^
Ummm can you translate that for me...I know no effing clue what you were trying to say.
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So ... are you denying that Trump recently stated that he is open to amnesty for DACA recipients and a pathway to citizenship? As I recall Trump declared in his 2016 campaign “There will be no amnesty ...“day one, my first hour in office, those people are gone.†Last time I checked RIV, day one and his first hour in office is gone. So why are you giving him a pass on this? I would assume that you are o.k. then with amnesty?
As you are discovering, The Trump Invested have faith and hope in their reverend, even when he changes his mind on issues that won him the office and when he cannot get the 'best deals' he promised. Like all folks invested in a cult of personality, others will and must be blamed for their lack of faith and understanding when promises are not fulfilled. Hoped-for prophecy fulfillment will continue to be believed, because only a strong faith in Trump will help those prophecies come to pass.
'Holding his feet to the fire' is hubris. Mere mortal men cannot understand the mysteries of Trump. It is known.
You must have faith in Trump, or you are an infidel who must be condescended to and ridiculed by the Faithful.
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My friend, I've nothing else at this point to say on this issue. When more is known, we'll talk then.
Thanks. @libertybele
As you wish RIV.
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As you are discovering, The Trump Invested have faith and hope in their reverend, even when he changes his mind on issues that won him the office and when he cannot get the 'best deals' he promised. Like all folks invested in a cult of personality, others will and must be blamed for their lack of faith and understanding when promises are not fulfilled. Hoped-for prophecy fulfillment will continue to be believed, because only a strong faith in Trump will help those prophecies come to pass.
'Holding his feet to the fire' is hubris. Mere mortal men cannot understand the mysteries of Trump. It is known.
You must have faith in Trump, or you are an infidel who must be condescended to and ridiculed by the Faithful.
Not holding his feet to the fire when his supporters still have the opportunity to keep his promises in check is lunacy.
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Ummm can you translate that for me...I know no effing clue what you were trying to say.
Ummm.... I was responding to this post of yours where you seemingly fault Trump for not "doing all he can" by not using an Executive Order to "fix/cancel" DACA.
If he was truly doing all he can on this...he'd just issue an EO cancelling the EO that Obama signed authorizing DACA and be done with it.
Now.... if you still can't understand what I was saying....
can't help ya there. It's not rocket surgery. ^-^
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I clearly have more faith in the President than do you. And, I've been right more often than not when it comes to Donald Trump.
@Right_in_Virginia
I guess you do, since you admitted elsewhere that you really do love him.
Faith in and/or love for politicians is extremely foolish.
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Ummm.... I was responding to this post of yours where you seemingly fault Trump for not "doing all he can" by not using an Executive Order to "fix/cancel" DACA.
Now.... if you still can't understand what I was saying....
can't help ya there. It's not rocket surgery. ^-^
Sorry ... Xena -- I had to laugh -- did you mean rocket science? I've never heard of doing surgery on a rocket? Just sayin' ... and absolutely no offense meant whatsoever. :laugh:
From my understanding ALL of Bammy's e.o.'s can be reversed by Trump -- so why hasn't he done so? Instead he's asking the SCOTUS to take the case and rule.
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Sorry ... Xena -- I had to laugh -- did you mean rocket science? I've never heard of doing surgery on a rocket? Just sayin' ... and absolutely no offense meant whatsoever. :laugh:
From my understanding ALL of Bammy's e.o.'s can be reversed by Trump -- so why hasn't he done so? Instead he's asking the SCOTUS to take the case and rule.
There's a Judge in Hawaii, backed by the Ninth Circus, who's learned opinion is it's Unconstitutional if Trump issues an EO the Judge doesn't agree with because of policy. Since the Ninth always upholds his orders, Trump has to continuously go to the SCOTUS to get the order slapped down.
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Not holding his feet to the fire when his supporters still have the opportunity to keep his promises in check is lunacy.
No it's not libertybele, it's called having FAITH in Trump.
Even when it's lunacy.
It's how people invested in a cult of personality think.
All their hopes and dreams have been lofted upon him whom they have placed their trust, and one must retain faith that their Chosen will do as they hope.
If not, it is because we mere mortals cannot comprehend the mysteries being worked out by him who will MAGA!
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There's a Judge in Hawaii, backed by the Ninth Circus, who's learned opinion is it's Unconstitutional if Trump issues an EO the Judge doesn't agree with because of policy. Since the Ninth always upholds his orders, Trump has to continuously go to the SCOTUS to get the order slapped down.
Yes, but would it be the same for reversing EO's?
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No it's not libertybele, it's called having FAITH in Trump.
Even when it's lunacy.
It's how people invested in a cult of personality think.
All their hopes and dreams have been lofted upon him whom they have placed their trust, and one must retain faith that their Chosen will do as they hope.
If not, it is because we mere mortals cannot comprehend the mysteries being worked out by him who will MAGA!
I hope you're not lumping all Trump supporters together. But I think you are.
There are a lot of people on this forum who support Trump without a smidgen of adoration or personal affection.
He has simply been a better president than I expected him to be and, so far, has done no real wrong unless you are mortally offended by tweets.
I find this panic over the current proposal a little over the top. I'm not sure exactly what is entailed in the bill or how it will affect those currently in the country illegally.
I do know that undocumented aliens can be deported if caught. So, what the heck is stopping that from happening? Right now.
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There's a Judge in Hawaii, backed by the Ninth Circus, who's learned opinion is it's Unconstitutional if Trump issues an EO the Judge doesn't agree with because of policy. Since the Ninth always upholds his orders, Trump has to continuously go to the SCOTUS to get the order slapped down.
No sir he doesn't have to do that at all! He would be well within his rights to just issue the order reversing the Obama order and ignore this idiot judge.
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No sir he doesn't have to do that at all! He would be well within his rights to just issue the order reversing the Obama order and ignore this idiot judge.
I agree with you. I wish the Federal Machine (that enforces laws) agreed with us, but they don't. Especially the parts of the machine that prefers Obastard's policies. We're the ones being ignored.
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I agree with you. I wish the Federal Machine (that enforces laws) agreed with us, but they don't. Especially the parts of the machine that prefers Obastard's policies. We're the ones being ignored.
I would just like to see him do as I suggest and see where the chips fall! You might be surprised.
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I hope you're not lumping all Trump supporters together. But I think you are.
No, you would be mistaken.
@anubias and I had an interesting civil conversation on that exact issue upthread.
He has simply been a better president than I expected him to be and, so far, has done no real wrong unless you are mortally offended by tweets.
You are perfectly welcome to think that without criticism from me. My issues are about those whom demand total fealty of opinion about Trump and assault each and every hint of criticism or negativity as some kind of treason that must be rooted out.
I do know that undocumented aliens can be deported if caught. So, what the heck is stopping that from happening? Right now.
Willpower and an Activist Judiciary.
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No, you would be mistaken.
@anubias and I had an interesting civil conversation on that exact issue upthread.
You are perfectly welcome to think that without criticism from me. My issues are about those whom demand total fealty of opinion about Trump and assault each and every hint of criticism or negativity as some kind of treason that must be rooted out.
Willpower and an Activist Judiciary.
Gotcha. If Trump will do the right thing on immigration, he will put a cap on a fairly successful year.
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Gotcha. If Trump will do the right thing on immigration, he will put a cap on a fairly successful year.
I agree with that. Let's do what we can to hold his feet to the fire over immigration, both legal and not.
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I’m one of the “hopers†listed above, not because I adulate Trump, but because I’d like a win on this issue. I *hope* the reason he did not reverse the executive order is that he wants to avoid the R’s being ripped to shreds on this for 2018. Playing the game with them so that the finger can be pointed back at them helps diffuse it.
Of course, I have no way of knowing that is what the man is doing, I can only “hopeâ€. He could be getting ready to declare blanket amnesty for all I know, but my gut tells me otherwise. My gut could simply be a Hail Mary being thrown to keep my ulcer in check during the wait as I am vehemently against amnesty. If Trump does grant Amnesty, I will be every bit as enraged as @libertybele and others. I may very well stroke over it. ;)
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I’m one of the “hopers†listed above, not because I adulate Trump, but because I’d like a win on this issue. I *hope* the reason he did not reverse the executive order is that he wants to avoid the R’s being ripped to shreds on this for 2018. Playing the game with them so that the finger can be pointed back at them helps diffuse it.
Of course, I have no way of knowing that is what the man is doing, I can only “hopeâ€. He could be getting ready to declare blanket amnesty for all I know, but my gut tells me otherwise. My gut could simply be a Hail Mary being thrown to keep my ulcer in check during the wait as I am vehemently against amnesty. If Trump does grant Amnesty, I will be every bit as enraged as @libertybele and others. I may very well stroke over it. ;)
We shall see what happens, and I truly hoped I have jumped the gun on this. Understand that I am not enraged, but fearful of what amnesty will mean for this country. The fear of losing our sovereignty, the fear of losing our country as we now know it and the fear of mass pandemonium when we are overtaken by people who refuse to assimilate and the real possibility of being run by Sharia law in the future. I look at what has happened over in Germany, France, Belgium and other countries and they are now countries in Europe erecting border walls for a reason.
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We shall see what happens, and I truly hoped I have jumped the gun on this. Understand that I am not enraged, but fearful of what amnesty will mean for this country. The fear of losing our sovereignty, the fear of losing our country as we now know it and the fear of mass pandemonium when we are overtaken by people who refuse to assimilate and the real possibility of being run by Sharia law in the future. I look at what has happened over in Germany, France, Belgium and other countries and they are now countries in Europe erecting border walls for a reason.
They have to be stopped from entering this country. If not, we may have to open our borders to the south merely to bring in more Christians to counter-balance Sharia. It is beyond imagination to have to resort to such an extreme. Surely I will be long gone by that point, but watching the invasion of Europe in such a speedy manner gives me pause and should be frightening to all Americans. They are also invading South America as well, I hear.
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We shall see what happens, and I truly hoped I have jumped the gun on this. Understand that I am not enraged, but fearful of what amnesty will mean for this country.
You’re not jumping the gun. This was a proposal released by the WH, not some made up supposition by anonymous people. You’re hardly alone in your criticism. It’s definitely a subject in the SOTU. Given the negative reaction on both sides, there’s probably been a re-write of the speech. Probably also why they postponed the public rollout scheduled for today.
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You’re not jumping the gun. This was a proposal released by the WH, not some made up supposition by anonymous people. You’re hardly alone in your criticism. It’s definitely a subject in the SOTU. Given the negative reaction on both sides, there’s probably been a re-write of the speech. Probably also why they postponed the public rollout scheduled for today.
I hope you're right, Ed.
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Thank You for posting this @Emjay and Thank You Briefers for having the respect for Myst's vision to keep an OP with 'Cruz' in the title alive this long, KUDOS to all!
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Thank You for posting this @Emjay and Thank You Briefers for having the respect for Myst's vision to keep an OP with 'Cruz' in the title alive this long, KUDOS to all!
Yes; Myst is the best and there is obvious interest here in this subject and Cruz's opinion on it.
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Eh, I realize that there are laws on the books ... so ... you mean to tell me that supposedly once those laws are actually enforced, employers who are now paying illegals under the table are all of a sudden going to comply? Don't think so. I get take away there bennies and some will self deport -- yet there are lots that will stay as they've already figured a way around the system, and some are already surviving by illegal means anyways (imagine that).
Yes, if laws are enforced, people go to jail and fines are levied. Drop a few felonies on some company executives and big fines and they will 'see the light'.
So, of course they will comply.
Do you think they would not for some reason, like some black market endeavor like the drug trade but for human smuggling and employment?
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I hope you're right, Ed.
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/400x/23210866/keep-hope-alive.jpg)
:rolling:
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Thank You for posting this @Emjay and Thank You Briefers for having the respect for Myst's vision to keep an OP with 'Cruz' in the title alive this long, KUDOS to all!
Too bad the last mention of Ted was on page 5 or 6... :rolling:
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Too bad the last mention of Ted was on page 5 or 6... :rolling:
Easily remedied. Cruz has been anti-amnesty and anti-open borders all along and I like his idea of using El Chapo $$ to fund the wall. He has proposed a series of amendments on this issue which include measures to prevent citizenship for those here illegally, as well as blocking illegals’ access to federal, state, or local public assistance benefits. He proposed amendments as well to secure the border, triple the size of the Border Patrol, and implement a biometric entry-exit system. So it's really disheartening when the Trumpsters in here chastise him and yet give a free pass to Trump who has made a statement he wants to grant DACA recipients a pathway to citizenship! Yeppers criticize the true conservative who's actually been fighting against amnesty, illegal immigration and open borders for years and praise the 'grand bargainer' for proposing amnesty! Got it!
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From June of 2015 -- ..."Texas Sen. Ted Cruz introduced legislation on Wednesday that would forbid the Obama administration from using fees paid by legal immigrants to fund Obama’s executive amnesty for illegal aliens.
The Immigration Slush Fund Elimination Act would stop the executive branch from using fees collected from legal immigrants who obeyed U.S. immigration law to pay for the ongoing illegal alien naturalization surge. Thanks to the million or so legal aliens flocking to America every year, that’s a lot of cash. Cruz notes that USCIS Chief Financial Officer Joseph Moore can lay claim to nearly $1 billion in application fees. Cruz’s bill would return the pursestrings back into Congress’s hands — and perhaps most importantly, stop the White House from ramping up legal immigration and issuing more and more fees in order to grant more illegal aliens amnesty..........
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/20/ted-cruz-introduces-bill-to-drain-amnesty-slush-fund-subsidized-by-legal-immigrants/ (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/20/ted-cruz-introduces-bill-to-drain-amnesty-slush-fund-subsidized-by-legal-immigrants/)
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Ted on Kate's Law (which McConnell blocked) and on illegal immigration and amnesty!
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLNPAIZxOZA#)
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From June of 2015 -- ..."Texas Sen. Ted Cruz introduced legislation on Wednesday that would forbid the Obama administration from using fees paid by legal immigrants to fund Obama’s executive amnesty for illegal aliens.
The Immigration Slush Fund Elimination Act would stop the executive branch from using fees collected from legal immigrants who obeyed U.S. immigration law to pay for the ongoing illegal alien naturalization surge. Thanks to the million or so legal aliens flocking to America every year, that’s a lot of cash. Cruz notes that USCIS Chief Financial Officer Joseph Moore can lay claim to nearly $1 billion in application fees. Cruz’s bill would return the pursestrings back into Congress’s hands — and perhaps most importantly, stop the White House from ramping up legal immigration and issuing more and more fees in order to grant more illegal aliens amnesty..........
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/20/ted-cruz-introduces-bill-to-drain-amnesty-slush-fund-subsidized-by-legal-immigrants/ (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/20/ted-cruz-introduces-bill-to-drain-amnesty-slush-fund-subsidized-by-legal-immigrants/)
Was it successful?
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Sen. Ted Cruz: Opposes amnesty, embrace legal immigrants:
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=513CDnMk1xc#)
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Was it successful?
Gee, brilliant question Cyber as you know the answer and to smugly even ask that question speaks volumes to me. It is unfortunate that we have a Senate and a Congress who are more than willing to grant amnesty and to leave our borders open; that has been demonstrated repeatedly by their votes; votes against the will of the people. When a sitting senator (Ted Cruz) brought up Kate's law the Republican leader of the Senate (Mitch McConnell) wouldn't even allow it to come up for a vote.
I think it is important to recognize those Senators and Congressmen who have fought the fight against illegal immigration and open borders and those Senators and Congressmen who have proposed amnesty and open borders. Ted Cruz by the way fought against the Gang of Eight.
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Ted Cruz's stance on illegal immigration and amnesty:
Bar refugees from terrorist-ridden regions
Border security is national security. Cruz introduced two bills to protect Americans from an influx of refugees who could be a national security risk, including legislation barring refugees from terrorist-ridden regions and legislation to recognize governors' authority to protect the citizens in their states by rejecting to resettle refugees in their state.
Source: 2016 presidential campaign website TedCruz.org , Mar 15, 2016
Children deported with parents can come back, if citizens
Q: Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals--DACA--is a program that has protected young people, brought to the U.S. by undocumented immigrants.
CRUZ: Existing law provides that those who are deported cannot come back here legally. U.S. citizens can come back. That's existing law.
Source: 2016 CNN-Telemundo Republican debate on eve of Texas primary , Feb 25, 2016
I led the fight to defeat the Reid-Schumer amnesty bill
CRUZ: When Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer were leading the fight to pass a massive amnesty plan, I led the fight to defeat that plan. The question for anyone on illegal immigration is where were you in that fight?
CRUZ: I have promised to rescind every single illegal executive action, including that one.
Source: 2016 CBS Republican primary debate in South Carolina , Feb 13, 2016
FactCheck: Yes, Bill Clinton deported 12M illegal aliens
Ted Cruz, debating the possibility of deporting an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants, asked, "Do you know how many aliens Bill Clinton deported? 12 million. Do you know how many illegal aliens, George W. Bush deported? 10 million."
Is that true? We checked, and found that both of Cruz's figures are accurate. Looking at the Department of Homeland Security's "Yearbook of Immigration Statistics: 2013 Enforcement Actions", the figures in Table 39 are:
Administration
Deportations
8,300,000 Reagan (1981-1988)
4,100,000 Bush Sr. (1989-1992)
4,100,000 Clinton (1993-2000)
10,300,000 Bush Jr. (2001-2008)
3,200,000 Obama first term (2009-2012; on track for 6 million total)
Those figures include both "removals and returns." Cruz's point is that 11 million deportations have been accomplished before.
Source: OnTheIssues FactCheck on 2015 CNN/Salem Republican debate , Dec 15, 2015
Build a wall instead of massive amnesty plan
CRUZ: There was a time for choosing, as Reagan put it. There was a battle over amnesty and some chose, like Senator Rubio, to stand with Barack Obama and Chuck Schumer and support a massive amnesty plan. Others chose to stand with the American people and secure the border. And I tell you, if I'm elected president, we will secure the border. We will triple the border patrol. We will build a wall that works and I'll get Donald Trump to pay for it.
Source: 2015 CNN/Salem Republican two-tier debate , Dec 15, 2015
CRUZ : I have never supported legalization, and I do not intend to support legalization. Let me tell you how you do this, what you do is you enforce the law. I've laid out a very, very detailed immigration plan on my website. It's 11 pages of existing federal law and in particular the question of what to do with people who are here now? You enforce the law. We can enforce the laws and if we secure the border, that solves the problem.
Source: 2015 CNN/Salem Republican two-tier debate , Dec 15, 2015
Illegals are an economic calamity for low-wage Americans
For those who believe people 'ought to come to this country legally, we're tired of being told it's anti-immigrant. I am the son of an immigrant who came legally from Cuba. We can embrace legal immigration while believing in the rule of law. Try going illegally to another country. Try going to China, or Japan. Try going to Mexico. See what they do. Every sovereign nation secures its borders, and it is not compassionate to say we're not going to enforce the laws.
Source: Fox Business/WSJ Second Tier debate , Nov 10, 2015
Support Kate's Law: oppose our leaders who won't enforce
Q: About the murder of Kate Steinle, allegedly shot down by an illegal immigrant--will you support Kate Steinle's Law, which would impose a mandatory five-year prison term for an illegal who is deported and then returns to this country?
CRUZ: Absolutely yes. And not only will I support it I have authored Kate's law in the United States Senate and filed that legislation. I tried to get the Senate to vote to pass Kate's law on the floor of the Senate just one week ago, and the leader of our own party blocked a vote on Kate's law. You know, there was reference made [by Donald Trump] about our leaders being stupid. It's not a question of stupidity. It's that they don't want to enforce the immigration laws. That there are far too many in the Washington cartel that support amnesty. There's 7 billion people across the face of the globe, many of whom want to come to this country. If they come legally, great. But if they come illegally & get amnesty, that would fundamentally change this country.
Source: Fox News/Facebook Top Ten First Tier debate transcript , Aug 6, 2015
Path to citizenship is profoundly unfair to legal immigrants
The Texas senator is pretty unequivocal: "I think a path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is profoundly unfair to the millions of legal immigrants who followed the rules," Cruz told ABC in 2013.
Cruz has repeatedly referred to President Obama's executive order as "lawless amnesty," and in 2013, he filed an amendment that would deny a pathway to citizenship to undocumented immigrants. However, Cruz has shown some vague support for a "path to legal status," according to The New York Times. He has also proposed doubling the number of green cards given out each year.
Cruz has opposed the DREAM Act, which would "provide illegal immigrants who were brought to the United States as children a path to permanent residency if they attend college or serve in the military." In 2014, he unsuccessfully tried to reverse Obama's executive order to halt the deportation of young, undocumented immigrants.
Source: National Journal 2016 series: Republicans on immigration , Feb 23, 2015
End Obama's illegal amnesty via Congress' checks & balances
Q: How to respond to the split within your party on immigration? What you're saying is that the Republicans should vote to fund the governments for all departments except one: no funding for the Department of Homeland Security, which handles immigration, rescinding President Obama's executive action, and if he vetoes that, he's responsible for shutting down the department. The problem is that's almost exactly what you did with the government shutdown across the entire government in 2013 with ObamaCare, and it backfired badly on your party.
CRUZ: All across this country, Republicans campaigned, saying: if you elect a Republican Senate, we will stop President Obama's illegal amnesty. We need to honor what we said. We should use the constitutional checks and balances that we have to rein in the abuse of power of the executive. Step #1 is if the president implements this lawless amnesty, that the Senate will not confirm any executive or judicial nominees.
Source: Fox News Sunday 2014 interview of 2016 presidential hopefuls , Nov 23, 2014
Defund amnesty; and refuse any nominees until rescinded
Q: How would you rescind President Obama's executive action on immigration?
CRUZ: We should use the constitutional checks and balances that we have to rein in the abuse of power of the executive. Step #1 that I have called for is the incoming majority leader should announce if the president implements this lawless amnesty, that the Senate will not confirm any executive or judicial nominees, other than vital national security positions, for the next two years, unless and until the president ends this lawless amnesty. That is an explicit authority given to the Senate.
Q: Are you saying the Senate should refuse to confirm the president's new nominee for attorney general?
CRUZ: We have to rein in the executive. In the Federalist Papers, our Framers talked about a president who would behave like a monarch. And step #2, we've got is the power of the purse, and we should fund one at a time the critical priorities of the federal government, but also use the power of the purse to attach riders.
Source: Fox News Sunday 2014 interview of 2016 presidential hopefuls , Nov 23, 2014
No path to citizenship for 1.65 million illegals in Texas
When discussing what to do about the 1.65 million illegal immigrants living in Texas, Cruz weaved into the Second Amendment, alleging his opponent didn't support gun rights. "What does this have to do with the question?" Sadler asked before fiercely denying his opponent's allegation. Cruz again said he didn't support a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants living in America, while Sadler said the opposite, as expected.
Source: WFAA-TV Dallas-Fort Worth on 2012 Texas Senate debate , Oct 2, 2012
Give police more power to ask about immigration status
Cruz accused Dewhurst of using his position as head of the Texas Senate to kill a bill last year that would have given police more power to ask anyone they detain about their citizenship status--a charge Dewhurst denied.
Both agreed that the US has failed to secure its border with Mexico, and said they oppose amnesty for illegal immigrants and the Obama administration's new directive allowing many young illegal immigrants brought to the US as children to be exempted from deportation.
Source: San Francisco Chronicle on 2012 Texas Senate debates , Jun 22, 2012
Boots on the ground, plus a wall
Border wall: James and Leppert oppose a wall, Dewhurst and Cruz tout "boots on the ground" and a wall in some places.
Source: BurntOrangeReport.com on 2012 Texas Senate Debate , Apr 18, 2012
Triple the size of the Border Patrol
Cruz on immigration: Wants to triple size of Border Patrol. Says Dewhurst supported in-state tuition for kids of illegal immigrants.
Dewhurst: I have always been against an amnesty program. "If they want to be a citizen, they ought to go home and reapply."
Dewhurst says he was against tuition for children of illegal immigrants.
Source: KVUE coverage of 2012 Texas Senate debate , Mar 29, 2012
Strengthen border security and increase enforcement
Ted Cruz has worked to strengthen border security and help ensure that America remains a nation of laws. Among other efforts, he has worked on efforts to increase penalties for felons who enter the country illegally.
Ted authored a U.S. Supreme Court amicus brief on behalf of 10 states in Lopez v. Gonzales, urging the strictest enforcement of laws punishing those with prior felony convictions who entered the country illegally.
Source: Campaign website, www.tedcruz.org (http://www.tedcruz.org), "Issues" , Jul 17, 2011
http://www.ontheissues.org/International/Ted_Cruz_Immigration.htm (http://www.ontheissues.org/International/Ted_Cruz_Immigration.htm)
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Thank You for posting this @Emjay and Thank You Briefers for having the respect for Myst's vision to keep an OP with 'Cruz' in the title alive this long, KUDOS to all!
Cruz is (as usual) standing true to his words and Trump is backpedaling (as usual); and so it is the nature of the Trump supporters to jump all over Cruz when they cannot defend Trump's recent words on granting a pathway to citizenship; heck, some won't even admit that he said those words. When I asked the simple question if Trump offered amnesty or not I was told to wait and see what happens!
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Yes; Myst is the best and there is obvious interest here in this subject and Cruz's opinion on it.
:beer: Cruz has been one of the few Senators who have been supportive of Trump's agenda and on this Cruz is vocalizing that he remains steadfast against amnesty. Interesting how Trump supporters are willing to give him a pass on this issue; one of the very reasons why they rallied around him!
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Gee, brilliant question Cyber as you know the answer and to smugly even ask that question speaks volumes to me. It is unfortunate that we have a Senate and a Congress who are more than willing to grant amnesty and to leave our borders open; that has been demonstrated repeatedly by their votes; votes against the will of the people. When a sitting senator (Ted Cruz) brought up Kate's law the Republican leader of the Senate (Mitch McConnell) wouldn't even allow it to come up for a vote.
I think it is important to recognize those Senators and Congressmen who have fought the fight against illegal immigration and open borders and those Senators and Congressmen who have proposed amnesty and open borders. Ted Cruz by the way fought against the Gang of Eight.
Cyber is pro-Cruz. I don't think it was a slam.
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Gee, brilliant question Cyber as you know the answer and to smugly even ask that question speaks volumes to me.
It wasn't "smug," and I'll thank you to not attribute thoughts to me that I do not have. It was a simple, straightforward question you chose to belittle. Thanks for answering.
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Cyber is pro-Cruz. I don't think it was a slam.
It wasn't, but my shitlist may have grown a bit for the day.
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It wasn't "smug," and I'll thank you to not attribute thoughts to me that I do not have. It was a simple, straightforward question you chose to belittle. Thanks for answering.
I absolutely apologize. I obviously interpreted your question the wrong way. No, Cruz was not successful in passing the legislation.
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I absolutely apologize. I obviously interpreted your question the wrong way. No, Cruz was not successful in passing the legislation.
Thanks. No harm, no faul. There was a lot of conflict on this thread with "that bunch," whom I am not one of... :beer:
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Too bad the last mention of Ted was on page 5 or 6... :rolling:
We tend to digress.
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We tend to digress.
It's what makes the place fun! Today it's just twiddle our fingers a bit while watching the Dem parade of hate, and enjoy their highly fragmented response. I think there are something like five responses to Trump's one speech tonight. Plus a special appearance on one of the late-nights by that Stormy person.
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It's what makes the place fun! Today it's just twiddle our fingers a bit while watching the Dem parade of hate, and enjoy their highly fragmented response. I think there are something like five responses to Trump's one speech tonight. Plus a special appearance on one of the late-nights by that Stormy person.
I'd almost forgotten about her. Her 15 minutes went really fast.
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Ted Cruz's stance on illegal immigration and amnesty:
Bar refugees from terrorist-ridden regions
Border security is national security. Cruz introduced two bills to protect Americans from an influx of refugees who could be a national security risk, including legislation barring refugees from terrorist-ridden regions and legislation to recognize governors' authority to protect the citizens in their states by rejecting to resettle refugees in their state.
Source: 2016 presidential campaign website TedCruz.org , Mar 15, 2016
Children deported with parents can come back, if citizens
Q: Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals--DACA--is a program that has protected young people, brought to the U.S. by undocumented immigrants.
CRUZ: Existing law provides that those who are deported cannot come back here legally. U.S. citizens can come back. That's existing law.
Source: 2016 CNN-Telemundo Republican debate on eve of Texas primary , Feb 25, 2016
I led the fight to defeat the Reid-Schumer amnesty bill
CRUZ: When Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer were leading the fight to pass a massive amnesty plan, I led the fight to defeat that plan. The question for anyone on illegal immigration is where were you in that fight?
CRUZ: I have promised to rescind every single illegal executive action, including that one.
Source: 2016 CBS Republican primary debate in South Carolina , Feb 13, 2016
FactCheck: Yes, Bill Clinton deported 12M illegal aliens
Ted Cruz, debating the possibility of deporting an estimated 11 million illegal immigrants, asked, "Do you know how many aliens Bill Clinton deported? 12 million. Do you know how many illegal aliens, George W. Bush deported? 10 million."
Is that true? We checked, and found that both of Cruz's figures are accurate. Looking at the Department of Homeland Security's "Yearbook of Immigration Statistics: 2013 Enforcement Actions", the figures in Table 39 are:
Administration
Deportations
8,300,000 Reagan (1981-1988)
4,100,000 Bush Sr. (1989-1992)
4,100,000 Clinton (1993-2000)
10,300,000 Bush Jr. (2001-2008)
3,200,000 Obama first term (2009-2012; on track for 6 million total)
Those figures include both "removals and returns." Cruz's point is that 11 million deportations have been accomplished before.
Source: OnTheIssues FactCheck on 2015 CNN/Salem Republican debate , Dec 15, 2015
Build a wall instead of massive amnesty plan
CRUZ: There was a time for choosing, as Reagan put it. There was a battle over amnesty and some chose, like Senator Rubio, to stand with Barack Obama and Chuck Schumer and support a massive amnesty plan. Others chose to stand with the American people and secure the border. And I tell you, if I'm elected president, we will secure the border. We will triple the border patrol. We will build a wall that works and I'll get Donald Trump to pay for it.
Source: 2015 CNN/Salem Republican two-tier debate , Dec 15, 2015
CRUZ : I have never supported legalization, and I do not intend to support legalization. Let me tell you how you do this, what you do is you enforce the law. I've laid out a very, very detailed immigration plan on my website. It's 11 pages of existing federal law and in particular the question of what to do with people who are here now? You enforce the law. We can enforce the laws and if we secure the border, that solves the problem.
Source: 2015 CNN/Salem Republican two-tier debate , Dec 15, 2015
Illegals are an economic calamity for low-wage Americans
For those who believe people 'ought to come to this country legally, we're tired of being told it's anti-immigrant. I am the son of an immigrant who came legally from Cuba. We can embrace legal immigration while believing in the rule of law. Try going illegally to another country. Try going to China, or Japan. Try going to Mexico. See what they do. Every sovereign nation secures its borders, and it is not compassionate to say we're not going to enforce the laws.
Source: Fox Business/WSJ Second Tier debate , Nov 10, 2015
Support Kate's Law: oppose our leaders who won't enforce
Q: About the murder of Kate Steinle, allegedly shot down by an illegal immigrant--will you support Kate Steinle's Law, which would impose a mandatory five-year prison term for an illegal who is deported and then returns to this country?
CRUZ: Absolutely yes. And not only will I support it I have authored Kate's law in the United States Senate and filed that legislation. I tried to get the Senate to vote to pass Kate's law on the floor of the Senate just one week ago, and the leader of our own party blocked a vote on Kate's law. You know, there was reference made [by Donald Trump] about our leaders being stupid. It's not a question of stupidity. It's that they don't want to enforce the immigration laws. That there are far too many in the Washington cartel that support amnesty. There's 7 billion people across the face of the globe, many of whom want to come to this country. If they come legally, great. But if they come illegally & get amnesty, that would fundamentally change this country.
Source: Fox News/Facebook Top Ten First Tier debate transcript , Aug 6, 2015
Path to citizenship is profoundly unfair to legal immigrants
The Texas senator is pretty unequivocal: "I think a path to citizenship for those who are here illegally is profoundly unfair to the millions of legal immigrants who followed the rules," Cruz told ABC in 2013.
Cruz has repeatedly referred to President Obama's executive order as "lawless amnesty," and in 2013, he filed an amendment that would deny a pathway to citizenship to undocumented immigrants. However, Cruz has shown some vague support for a "path to legal status," according to The New York Times. He has also proposed doubling the number of green cards given out each year.
Cruz has opposed the DREAM Act, which would "provide illegal immigrants who were brought to the United States as children a path to permanent residency if they attend college or serve in the military." In 2014, he unsuccessfully tried to reverse Obama's executive order to halt the deportation of young, undocumented immigrants.
Source: National Journal 2016 series: Republicans on immigration , Feb 23, 2015
End Obama's illegal amnesty via Congress' checks & balances
Q: How to respond to the split within your party on immigration? What you're saying is that the Republicans should vote to fund the governments for all departments except one: no funding for the Department of Homeland Security, which handles immigration, rescinding President Obama's executive action, and if he vetoes that, he's responsible for shutting down the department. The problem is that's almost exactly what you did with the government shutdown across the entire government in 2013 with ObamaCare, and it backfired badly on your party.
CRUZ: All across this country, Republicans campaigned, saying: if you elect a Republican Senate, we will stop President Obama's illegal amnesty. We need to honor what we said. We should use the constitutional checks and balances that we have to rein in the abuse of power of the executive. Step #1 is if the president implements this lawless amnesty, that the Senate will not confirm any executive or judicial nominees.
Source: Fox News Sunday 2014 interview of 2016 presidential hopefuls , Nov 23, 2014
Defund amnesty; and refuse any nominees until rescinded
Q: How would you rescind President Obama's executive action on immigration?
CRUZ: We should use the constitutional checks and balances that we have to rein in the abuse of power of the executive. Step #1 that I have called for is the incoming majority leader should announce if the president implements this lawless amnesty, that the Senate will not confirm any executive or judicial nominees, other than vital national security positions, for the next two years, unless and until the president ends this lawless amnesty. That is an explicit authority given to the Senate.
Q: Are you saying the Senate should refuse to confirm the president's new nominee for attorney general?
CRUZ: We have to rein in the executive. In the Federalist Papers, our Framers talked about a president who would behave like a monarch. And step #2, we've got is the power of the purse, and we should fund one at a time the critical priorities of the federal government, but also use the power of the purse to attach riders.
Source: Fox News Sunday 2014 interview of 2016 presidential hopefuls , Nov 23, 2014
No path to citizenship for 1.65 million illegals in Texas
When discussing what to do about the 1.65 million illegal immigrants living in Texas, Cruz weaved into the Second Amendment, alleging his opponent didn't support gun rights. "What does this have to do with the question?" Sadler asked before fiercely denying his opponent's allegation. Cruz again said he didn't support a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants living in America, while Sadler said the opposite, as expected.
Source: WFAA-TV Dallas-Fort Worth on 2012 Texas Senate debate , Oct 2, 2012
Give police more power to ask about immigration status
Cruz accused Dewhurst of using his position as head of the Texas Senate to kill a bill last year that would have given police more power to ask anyone they detain about their citizenship status--a charge Dewhurst denied.
Both agreed that the US has failed to secure its border with Mexico, and said they oppose amnesty for illegal immigrants and the Obama administration's new directive allowing many young illegal immigrants brought to the US as children to be exempted from deportation.
Source: San Francisco Chronicle on 2012 Texas Senate debates , Jun 22, 2012
Boots on the ground, plus a wall
Border wall: James and Leppert oppose a wall, Dewhurst and Cruz tout "boots on the ground" and a wall in some places.
Source: BurntOrangeReport.com on 2012 Texas Senate Debate , Apr 18, 2012
Triple the size of the Border Patrol
Cruz on immigration: Wants to triple size of Border Patrol. Says Dewhurst supported in-state tuition for kids of illegal immigrants.
Dewhurst: I have always been against an amnesty program. "If they want to be a citizen, they ought to go home and reapply."
Dewhurst says he was against tuition for children of illegal immigrants.
Source: KVUE coverage of 2012 Texas Senate debate , Mar 29, 2012
Strengthen border security and increase enforcement
Ted Cruz has worked to strengthen border security and help ensure that America remains a nation of laws. Among other efforts, he has worked on efforts to increase penalties for felons who enter the country illegally.
Ted authored a U.S. Supreme Court amicus brief on behalf of 10 states in Lopez v. Gonzales, urging the strictest enforcement of laws punishing those with prior felony convictions who entered the country illegally.
Source: Campaign website, www.tedcruz.org (http://www.tedcruz.org), "Issues" , Jul 17, 2011
http://www.ontheissues.org/International/Ted_Cruz_Immigration.htm (http://www.ontheissues.org/International/Ted_Cruz_Immigration.htm)
Thank you a million times for the time and research you did for this post. It certainly states Ted's position clearly and well.
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Regarding @libertybele's extensive research on Ted Cruz, I want to say that it is not as easy to find info on the Net as it should be.
I read yesterday that there was a big influx of border crossings. Maybe they're trying to get in under the wire (or under the wall)
Anyway, I wanted to know where the majority of border crossings from Mexico occurred. So, I searched for about an hour and gave up.
Anybody know?
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Regarding @libertybele's extensive research on Ted Cruz, I want to say that it is not as easy to find info on the Net as it should be.
I read yesterday that there was a big influx of border crossings. Maybe they're trying to get in under the wire (or under the wall)
Anyway, I wanted to know where the majority of border crossings from Mexico occurred. So, I searched for about an hour and gave up.
Anybody know?
I read an article a little while back that said it used to be CA, but is now through Texas.
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I read an article a little while back that said it used to be CA, but is now through Texas.
That's probably true. Why should they want to live in that s-hole, California.
Just kidding, but Texas has a long border with Mexico and I was wondering if anyone knew what the main entry point is.
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@Emjay
(http://collegestationbryan.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Border-Drug-Smuggling-Texas-Sectors.jpg)
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@Emjay
(http://collegestationbryan.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Border-Drug-Smuggling-Texas-Sectors.jpg)
Looks like the Hidalgo/McAllen area across from Tamilupas is the main route now.
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@Emjay
(http://collegestationbryan.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Border-Drug-Smuggling-Texas-Sectors.jpg)
@corbe Good map, corbe. Thanks. A little awe inspiring. We're gonna need a bigger wall.
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So it's really disheartening when the Trumpsters in here chastise him and yet give a free pass to Trump who has made a statement he wants to grant DACA recipients a pathway to citizenship! Yeppers criticize the true conservative who's actually been fighting against amnesty, illegal immigration and open borders for years and praise the 'grand bargainer' for proposing amnesty! Got it!
You have to understand, Trump is The Anointed, the savior of the country and all he does and says is holy writ, even if seemingly contradictory because we mere mortals cannot fathom his genius. Only Trump will save us and only Trump can do what is right of the country. He just requires your faith and 100% support or he cannot accomplish his promises.
Cruz on the other hand, well he's not even an American, so you might as well be quoting a leader of ISIS. Any information you bring up about Cruz' position on Amnesty and Illegals is to be discarded outright and dismissed.
/sarc.
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You have to understand, Trump is The Anointed, the savior of the country and all he does and says is holy writ, even if seemingly contradictory because we mere mortals cannot fathom his genius. Only Trump will save us and only Trump can do what is right of the country. He just requires your faith and 100% support or he cannot accomplish his promises.
I laughed out loud reading that, INVAR, coming from a religious zealot like yourself. Are you being sarcastic in questioning such blind, irrational faith?
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*****rollingeyes*****
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@Emjay
(http://collegestationbryan.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Border-Drug-Smuggling-Texas-Sectors.jpg)
I'd be interested in seeing the AZ map. Gotta be slow in the Summer with 110F degrees every day.
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I laughed out loud reading that, INVAR, coming from a religious zealot like yourself. Are you being sarcastic in questioning such blind, irrational faith?
That's the difference between us Jazzy - you have faith in men, politicians, their institutions and your own imagination - I put no faith in those things. Rather I have faith in Him who exists outside of this creation and His Principles and Laws.
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I find this information interesting ... according to this chart FL and TX seem to have a far greater problem then AZ. I think these figures are very conservative and I think we need to keep in mind, that migrants to this country are considered refugees and I don't believe are included in these figures. During Bammy's administration alone, he issued over 1,000,000 green cards to Muslim migrants -- so we know we're dealing with DACA right now, but how long are the Muslims with green cards allowed to stay?
(http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2017/02/09101351/FT_17.01.31_unauthorizedMetros_table.png)
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That's the difference between us Jazzy - you have faith in men, politicians, their institutions and your own imagination - I put no faith in those things. Rather I have faith in Him who exists outside of this creation and His Principles and Laws.
Yes, but your faith is just as blind and irrational. I, too, believe in Christ - but for very different reasons than you do. I refuse to cling to stray passages in the Bible to justify hate and prejudice. Christ is WORTHY of being followed because of the moral philosophy He espouses, and the RELEVANCE of that philosophy to living a more peaceful, charitable, community-centered life. For example, Christ PERSUADES me to defend and respect the very same folks that you believe God commands you to condemn as perverts and abominations.
I don't love Christ because of faith, or the selfish hope of salvation. I love Him on the merits, and whether or not I am destined to be worm food is irrelevant.
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I find this information interesting ... according to this chart FL and TX seem to have a far greater problem then AZ.
(http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2017/02/09101351/FT_17.01.31_unauthorizedMetros_table.png)
I wonder how may of those are OTM? I'm sure the NYC/NJ and Miami numbers would be a lot lower if those were subtracted.
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That's the difference between us Jazzy - you have faith in men, politicians, their institutions and your own imagination - I put no faith in those things. Rather I have faith in Him who exists outside of this creation and His Principles and Laws.
So ... do you think God sent Trump for this time in history?
Or do you think that God, after having created us, took a hands off policy?
Do you think there's any point in praying for a desired outcome in one's own life or in the life of the country?
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Yes, but your faith is just as blind and irrational.
Yeah, you go think that. Says more about how you view those who regard the Bible as God's Word than it does about us.
I don't love Christ because of faith, or the selfish hope of salvation.
I think that quote right there says everything an actual Christian Believer needs to know about you.
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I wonder how may of those are OTM? I'm sure the NYC/NJ and Miami numbers would be a lot lower if those were subtracted.
OTM? I'm not familiar with that abbreviation.
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OTM is either Other Than Mexican or Orange Tainted Members
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Yeah, you go think that. Says more about how you view those who regard the Bible as God's Word than it does about us.
I think that quote right there says everything an actual Christian Believer needs to know about you.
I find the "love Him on the merits" part intriguing. What if God decided to test him? I wonder what would happen to that love if he woke up one morning covered in boils, he went to his Firm and was fired after being framed on an untrue ethics violation, and his Significant Other dumped him like a hot potato because of the scandal?
Job?
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OTM? I'm not familiar with that abbreviation.
OTM is either Other Than Mexican or Orange Tainted Members
@corbe! :silly: :silly:
@libertybele That's an ICE abbreviation for "Other Than Mexican." It has a specific meaning for the border cops.
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So ... do you think God sent Trump for this time in history?
No. I think we cross the line into idolatry when we assert that God is anointing and sending us a politician to lead us when our society and culture has rejected and thrown God out of it.
But if I did, could we not also then say that God sent Hitler to Germany for that period of time in history? Look, God can work with whomever He chooses to accomplish His purposes. God even used Satan to work Righteousness in Job. However, if one looks at biblical history - when Israel demanded a king, God let them have their way - and it was ruinous, complete with the people choosing one evil king after another until they were utterly destroyed.
I am of the opinion that like Ancient Israel, God is letting us choose and decide for ourselves whom will rule us - and suffer the consequences.
Do you think there's any point in praying for a desired outcome in one's own life or in the life of the country?
'But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you'. - Matthew 6:33
We're supposed to seek God's will first and foremost in our lives, not our own.
The problem is, we no longer do as a people. We seek our own will and our own desires, and remake morality and God into our own acceptable image. Golden calves are a speciality of human nature.
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No. I think we cross the line into idolatry when we assert that God is anointing and sending us a politician to lead us when our society and culture has rejected and thrown God out of it.
But if I did, could we not also then say that God sent Hitler to Germany for that period of time in history? Look, God can work with whomever He chooses to accomplish His purposes. God even used Satan to work Righteousness in Job. However, if one looks at biblical history - when Israel demanded a king, God let them have their way - and it was ruinous, complete with the people choosing one evil king after another until they were utterly destroyed.
I am of the opinion that like Ancient Israel, God is letting us choose and decide for ourselves whom will rule us - and suffer the consequences.
'But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you'. - Matthew 6:33
We're supposed to seek God's will first and foremost in our lives, not our own.
The problem is, we no longer do as a people. We seek our own will and our own desires, and remake morality and God into our own acceptable image. Golden calves are a speciality of human nature.
Thanks for an interesting reply. As so often is the case when we veer into religion, it also contained some confusion and contradiction.
But nobody ever said God was easy.
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Yes, but your faith is just as blind and irrational. I, too, believe in Christ - but for very different reasons than you do. I refuse to cling to stray passages in the Bible to justify hate and prejudice. Christ is WORTHY of being followed because of the moral philosophy He espouses, and the RELEVANCE of that philosophy to living a more peaceful, charitable, community-centered life. For example, Christ PERSUADES me to defend and respect the very same folks that you believe God commands you to condemn as perverts and abominations.
It was Christ's own finger that wrote those laws in stone. HE said they are eternal
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OTM is either Other Than Mexican or Orange Tainted Members
Old-Timey Mariners?
Often Total Morons?
Only Temporarily Mummified?
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It was Christ's own finger that wrote those laws in stone. HE said they are eternal
Bullshit. Christ doesn't compel you to hate - to the contrary!. Using the Bible to justify such hate is the true abomination.
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Old-Timey Mariners?
Often Total Morons?
Only Temporarily Mummified?
Off The Mark
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For example, Christ PERSUADES me to defend and respect the very same folks that you believe God commands you to condemn as perverts and abominations.
Of course you do.
You inadvertently admit to being a willing tool and pawn of Satan - to defend and respect sin, and those who unapologetically practice sin and abomination.
You have revealed it is the Bible and those who adhere and are beholden to His Word that you consider sinful and evil, while declaring as righteous and good, those behaviors and practices the bible condemns and states unequivocally will lead to eternal death.
It was Christ's own finger that wrote those laws in stone. HE said they are eternal
He does not acknowledge that. He rejects scripture and anything in it he disagrees with politically and socially.
He's a Sojourner at best - whereby only the red letters of the Gospel are referenced and usually to promote the insistence that Jesus was a Socialist.
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Bullshit. Christ doesn't compel you to hate - to the contrary!. Using the Bible to justify such hate is the true abomination.
There's your problem right there.
It is not hate. It is help.
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Off The Mark
Ooooh! Totally Marvey!
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Bullshit. Christ doesn't compel you to hate - to the contrary!. Using the Bible to justify such hate is the true abomination.
"For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to break them will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven". - Matthew 5:18-19
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God". - I Corinthians 6:8-9
All you are engaged in doing, is attempting to lead others to eternal death - to follow the god of this age and the wisdom of society instead of the Word of God that you so vociferously and routinely reject with vehemence.
I find the parallels of those who insist that Illegals should be rewarded with residency and citizenship for breaking the law of our land (as you have said), and what you opine regarding those engaged in breaking biblical laws as being righteous, to be a fascinating study.
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"For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to break them will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven". - Matthew 5:18-19
Well there's some red words, right there!
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There's your problem right there.
It is not hate. It is help.
But the Mikey Weinstein disciple will never understand that.
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But the Mikey Weinstein disciple will never understand that.
@txradioguy
Hard tellin. The good Lord had to knock me upside the head with a 2x4. I come by faith the hard way. :shrug:
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@txradioguy
Hard tellin. The good Lord had to knock me upside the head with a 2x4. I come by faith the hard way. :shrug:
I did too. I hope he does as well.
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I did too. I hope he does as well.
For his eternal sake - I hope he would too, but hearts hardened to The Lord as scripture reveals is going to be a tough nut to crack.
"The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it ever." - Romans 8:7
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For his eternal sake - I hope he would too, but hearts hardened to The Lord as scripture reveals is going to be a tough nut to crack.
"The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it ever." - Romans 8:7
'Tain't nuthin' wrong with prayin' for a man, even if he's not penitent. :shrug:
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'Tain't nuthin' wrong with prayin' for a man, even if he's not penitent.
Falls into the category of praying for your enemies.
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Falls into the category of praying for your enemies.
I suppose it would, but I don't consider him an "enemy," just wrong as can be. But your point is well taken, because he does seem to be doing his best to drive others from the path.
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Falls into the category of praying for your enemies.
Is he your neighbor?
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Is he your neighbor?
Thank God no.
He's in PA somewhere according to his comments about 2nd Amendment infringements and vociferously opposing Texas-style gun culture in his state.
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Thank God no.
He's in PA somewhere according to his comments about 2nd Amendment infringements and vociferously opposing Texas-style gun culture in his state.
You know what I mean and that ain't it. (And, I dislike that question too.)
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Thank God no.
He's in PA somewhere according to his comments about 2nd Amendment infringements and vociferously opposing Texas-style gun culture in his state.
If TX gun laws rive him nutz, then I'm in hysterics about how he must be about AZ gun laws. My wife and I carry concealed everywhere we go, no permits required.
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If TX gun laws rive him nutz, then I'm in hysterics about how he must be about AZ gun laws. My wife and I carry concealed everywhere we go, no permits required.
Kansas is the same way. If you can lawfully own a firearm and you're a resident, no carry permit required. Most still get it for reciprocity reasons.
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You know what I mean and that ain't it. (And, I dislike that question too.)
Well, if he happened to be walking' out thisa way spoutin' the kinds of stuff he does here as loud as he does, and happens to fall among a bunch of good-'ol boys who pummel him to a pulp - and I happened along his crumpled form, I wouldn't be going to the other side of the road to avoid him. I would likely haul his carcass to a hospital and made sure he was taken care of.
Of course when he regains consciousness he would get the obligatory lecture about the stupidity of coming into a community like ours to loudly bash Christians and the Confederacy.
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Well, if he happened to be walking' out thisa way spoutin' the kinds of stuff he does here as loud as he does, and happens to fall among a bunch of good-'ol boys who pummel him to a pulp - and I happened along his crumpled form, I wouldn't be going to the other side of the road to avoid him. I would likely haul his carcass to a hospital and made sure he was taken care of.
Of course when he regains consciousness he would get the obligatory lecture about the stupidity of coming into a community like ours to loudly bash Christians and the Confederacy.
Fair enough. I'd probably do the same. At least I hope I would.
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--- back on topic:
Ted Cruz: No US citizenship for 'anybody here illegally'
Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, said Thursday he opposes granting amnesty for anyone who entered the country illegally, even as President Trump is suggesting he was willing to pursue the option.
“I do not believe we should be granting a path to citizenship to anybody here illegally,†Cruz said Thursday. “Doing so is inconsistent with the promises we made to the men and women who elected us.â€
Cruz’s comments come of the heels of Trump signaling he was open to the possibility of illegal aliens assuming citizenship.
“It’s going to happen at some point in the future, over a period of 10-12 years,†Trump told reporters on Wednesday. “I think it’s a nice thing to have the incentive of after a period of years being able to become a citizen.â€
And on Thursday, the White House was reportedly floating the idea of granting citizenship to nearly 2 million illegal immigrants as long as other border measures were approved, including building the border wall and ending chain migration and the diversity visa lottery............
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Bullshit. Christ doesn't compel you to hate - to the contrary!. Using the Bible to justify such hate is the true abomination.
So, we finally found out your problem. You cannot read.
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So, we finally found out your problem. You cannot read.
He reads ok! It's the interpretation that gives him so much trouble.
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So, we finally found out your problem. You cannot read.
He can read. He choses to ignore the words and plain meaning because it doesn't fit with what he wants his Jesus to be and look like.
He only wants to follow a god that comports with his own fleshy value system, rather than changing his own warped views to match God's.
However, he has continually claimed to be a Conservative while demonstrating he is anything but a Conservative - seeking instead to redefine it to match his own liberal definition.
I suspect his claims of actually being a Christian are exactly the same. He claims to be one, yet his own words and behaviors illustrate him to be quite other than what he claims.
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For his eternal sake - I hope he would too, but hearts hardened to The Lord as scripture reveals is going to be a tough nut to crack.
"The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it ever." - Romans 8:7
Hostile to God? Not me - I'm no atheist or agnostic. But God didn't teach me to hate. You say He does. That's where we disagree. We'll see who's right eventually. Maybe we're both wrong. I strongly disagree that faith alone (and its unfortunate corollary, blind adherence to dogma) is sufficient for salvation. Good works and adherence to the golden rule is what's important, IMO. Don't take such disagreement as meaning I'm hostile to God. That's not my agenda at all.
And just so there's no misunderstanding, since this all comes back to our respective views on gays and marriage - I have never defended homosexuality per se. Homosexuals who cheat on their partners are just as sinful as straight guys who do the same. Who I defend are my neighbors and others like them - who've been faithful to each other for years and years - just as you and I have been faithful to our spouses.
Sexual orientation isn't a choice. Sexual behavior is. Promiscuity is the sin. Divorce is the sin. Monogamy and the sacred commitment it represents - regardless of the sexual orientation of the couple - is what needs to be praised, respected and encouraged.
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Sexual orientation isn't a choice.
Bullsh*t. It's just as much of a preference as it is when someone prefers redheads over blondes or big boobs over a nice butt...it's all a personal preference and choice.
Sexual behavior is. Promiscuity is the sin. Divorce is the sin. Monogamy and the sacred commitment it represents - regardless of the sexual orientation of the couple - is what needs to be praised, respected and encouraged.
Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
Now no one here is advocating that homosexuals be murdered...however the Bible clearly states that it's a sin and something that is an abomination.
And in the New Testament Jesus instructs his Disciples to obey his Father's word and teachings as if they were his own.
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If they ever prove sexual orientation is genetic, watch how quickly homosexuals become pro-life when people start aborting pregnancies, because they don't want a gay child.
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Bullsh*t. It's just as much of a preference as it is when someone prefers redheads over blondes or big boobs over a nice butt...it's all a personal preference and choice.
Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."
Now no one here is advocating that homosexuals be murdered...however the Bible clearly states that it's a sin and something that is an abomination.
And in the New Testament Jesus instructs his Disciples to obey his Father's word and teachings as if they were his own.
888high58888 There is something very wrong with our society when there are those who feel it is perfectly acceptable to make the vast majority go against the teachings of the Bible because a minority of the population is screaming discrimination and want their immoral behavior to be accepted as 'normal' and in fact it is now becoming commonplace that they are to be given preference and privilege over the heterosexual majority.
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Hostile to God? Not me - I'm no atheist or agnostic. But God didn't teach me to hate. You say He does. That's where we disagree.
Your abject biblical ignorance about God is astounding. You willfully choose to be so, by rejecting the plain word of Scripture for your own construct of what you want God to be.
God in-fact DOES hate, and spells it out.
These six things the LORD God hates: yes, seven are an abomination to him:
A proud look,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
A heart that devises wickedness,
feet that are swift to run to mischief,
A false witness that speaks lies,
and he that sows discord among brethren. - Proverbs 6:16-19
We'll see who's right eventually. Maybe we're both wrong.
The only one wrong on this subject is you.
Good works and adherence to the golden rule is what's important, IMO.
As I said, your construct of God is what your own opinion of him is, not what He reveals of Himself in His Word.
Don't take such disagreement as meaning I'm hostile to God.
Your own words reveal that you are. You have numerous times, actually used the word 'hate' to describe the context of actual scriptures that were quoted to you.
Sexual orientation isn't a choice. Sexual behavior is. Promiscuity is the sin. Divorce is the sin. Monogamy and the sacred commitment it represents - regardless of the sexual orientation of the couple - is what needs to be praised, respected and encouraged.
Again, you demonstrate that you worship a god of your own construct - and reject the Word of God for your own morality.
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888high58888 There is something very wrong with our society when there are those who feel it is perfectly acceptable to make the vast majority go against the teachings of the Bible because a minority of the population is screaming discrimination and want their immoral behavior to be accepted as 'normal' and in fact it is now becoming commonplace that they are to be given preference and privilege over the heterosexual majority.
It's been the plan by the left and their allies all along. They need replace absolutes...wrong and right with 60 millions shades of gray. Morals and adhering to the Bible are hateful and bigoted...you're considered progressive and open minded if you reject the foundations of what this country was built on and what has kept us strong when other nations have tumbled from one revolt to another and accept that which is immoral and goes against the Bible and the very documents that founded this nation as well as the men who built it.
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It's been the plan by the left and their allies all along. They need replace absolutes...wrong and right with 60 millions shades of gray. Morals and adhering to the Bible are hateful and bigoted...you're considered progressive and open minded if you reject the foundations of what this country was built on and what has kept us strong when other nations have tumbled from one revolt to another and accept that which is immoral and goes against the Bible and the very documents that founded this nation as well as the men who built it.
Well stated, and the fundamental reason why you cannot discuss liberty to the exclusion of biblical and religious principles.
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Well stated, and the fundamental reason why you cannot discuss liberty to the exclusion of biblical and religious principles.
Yes, very well stated. This country was founded upon Christianity and the Constitution was written as our rule of law. To deny either is why we found ourselves in the mess that we're in.
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There is something very wrong with our society when there are those who feel it is perfectly acceptable to make the vast majority go against the teachings of the Bible because a minority of the population is screaming discrimination and want their immoral behavior to be accepted as 'normal' and in fact it is now becoming commonplace that they are to be given preference and privilege over the heterosexual majority.
Oh, horse manure. Gays don't demand "preference and privilege", just the equal protection of the law. And sure, they'd appreciate, as would we all, the respect of their neighbors.
One of the gladdest developments of the last 20 years is that most of us, most of the time, are perfectly willing to respect our gay neighbors and support their desires to marry and be free of arbitrary discrimination in their lives.
Live and let live.
But the religious zealots, as they always have, insist on imposing their morality on others. Not content to living their own lives as free of sin as they can manage, they refuse to serve gays, and hector them regarding their blasphemy, perversion and sin. And, of course, the zealots then whack off to porn, beat their spouses (the Bible says they can), have affairs and get divorced.
But, hey, at least they can hate gays and claim the endorsement of God!
Well, no more. Hopefully the law will continue to develop to allow gays the full ability to participate as valued members of the community. Let the religious zealots stew in their fear (many are, I believe, closeted gays themselves).
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Oh, horse manure. Gays don't demand "preference and privilege", just the equal protection of the law. And sure, they'd appreciate, as would we all, the respect of their neighbors.
One of the gladdest developments of the last 20 years is that most of us, most of the time, are perfectly willing to respect our gay neighbors and support their desires to marry and be free of arbitrary discrimination in their lives.
Live and let live.
But the religious zealots, as they always have, insist on imposing their morality on others. Not content to living their own lives as free of sin as they can manage, they refuse to serve gays, and hector them regarding their blasphemy, perversion and sin. And, of course, the zealots then whack off to porn, beat their spouses (the Bible says they can), have affairs and get divorced.
But, hey, at least they can hate gays and claim the endorsement of God!
Well, no more. Hopefully the law will continue to develop to allow gays the full ability to participate as valued members of the community. Let the religious zealots stew in their fear (many are, I believe, closeted gays themselves).
:beer:
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Let the religious zealots stew in their fear (many are, I believe, closeted gays themselves).
So, it's your opinion that people who disagree with you about the rightness of your crusade for homosexual "rights" do so because they are closeted gays? I think that's pretty revolting, and a new low for you.
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Oh, horse manure. Gays don't demand "preference and privilege", just the equal protection of the law. And sure, they'd appreciate, as would we all, the respect of their neighbors.
One of the gladdest developments of the last 20 years is that most of us, most of the time, are perfectly willing to respect our gay neighbors and support their desires to marry and be free of arbitrary discrimination in their lives.
Live and let live.
But the religious zealots, as they always have, insist on imposing their morality on others. Not content to living their own lives as free of sin as they can manage, they refuse to serve gays, and hector them regarding their blasphemy, perversion and sin. And, of course, the zealots then whack off to porn, beat their spouses (the Bible says they can), have affairs and get divorced.
But, hey, at least they can hate gays and claim the endorsement of God!
Well, no more. Hopefully the law will continue to develop to allow gays the full ability to participate as valued members of the community. Let the religious zealots stew in their fear (many are, I believe, closeted gays themselves).
Ironically, that fear should be the Islamist growth into the bowels of America, as those 'religious zealots' have no compunction in simply ridding the earth of the gays instead of ostracizing them.
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Gays don't demand "preference and privilege...
Yes they do, same as every other Democrat advocacy group. and so do you as their staunchest advocate to force us to serve and support their deviant behavior.
One of the gladdest developments of the last 20 years is that most of us, most of the time, are perfectly willing to respect our gay neighbors and support their desires to marry and be free of arbitrary discrimination in their lives.
Unless you are Christian, then it is perfectly good to slam their faith as bigoted and intolerant while suing them into oblivion because they refuse to cater or acknowledge as good and normal, homosexual sexual deviancy.
Live and let live.
Oh that's funny coming from you. 'Live and let live" as in the form of lawsuits designed to impoverish or shut down those nasty bigoted Christians who consider homosexuality to be an abomination. "Live and let live" in the form of punishing their livelihoods for refusing to cater to homosexual celebration and working to silence the same from having any vestige or appearance in the public square.
But the religious zealots, as they always have, insist on imposing their morality on others.
The ONLY people insisting on imposing their morality on others, is homosexuals and their Socialist/Liberal/Godless advocates like you who declare homosexual behavior as holy, good and normal and demand government and the courts impose punishment on those who consider that behavior wrong, sinful and abominable and offend the homosexuals and their advocates for holding to that belief.
they refuse to serve gays, and hector them regarding their blasphemy, perversion and sin.
As do you homosexuals and Advocates - which is their right. Except that right of association only seems to go in one direction. Homos can eject straights from their businesses while cruising them openly. However, Faggotry must be served when demanded along with acknowledgment of their deviancy as something good and normal. Failure to do so will earn declarations of bigotry and have legal and criminal actions taken against you.
And, of course, the zealots then whack off to porn, beat their spouses (the Bible says they can), have affairs and get divorced.
...Let the religious zealots stew in their fear (many are, I believe, closeted gays themselves).
And that is exactly what we expect to come from the mouth of one of Satan's willing pawns.
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Again, you demonstrate that you worship a god of your own construct - and reject the Word of God for your own morality.
The 'knowledge' of good and evil, in a nutshell.
That's the whole dang thing, right there.
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Gays don't demand "preference and privilege", just the equal protection of the law. And sure, they'd appreciate, as would we all, the respect of their neighbors.
Yes gays do demand special preference and privilege -- I've witnessed it on several occasions and they do expect more than equal protection under the law. As for respect, how can I show respect to someone whom I think leads an unnatural lifestyle? I prefer to let those people well enough alone, but I certainly don't respect them or their lifestyle.
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Deny the dreamers but keeping chain migration that will allow a million in each year? It will take 60 Senate votes to change that law. I think Trump here, sees an opportunity and all of this is in the opening stages yet.
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Deny the dreamers but keeping chain migration that will allow a million in each year? It will take 60 Senate votes to change that law. I think Trump here, sees an opportunity and all of this is in the opening stages yet.
??? I'm trying to decipher what you've written here.
Trump has already publicly stated that he is willing to GIVE the Dreamers a pathway to citizenship. We only hold a very slim majority in the Senate. Secondly, I think it is important to consider the results granting 1.8 million citizenship. That is potentially 1.8 million new DEM voters. The writing after that is on the wall.
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Trump has already publicly stated that he is willing to GIVE the Dreamers a pathway to citizenship. We only hold a very slim majority in the Senate. Secondly, I think it is important to consider the results granting 1.8 million citizenship. That is potentially 1.8 million new DEM voters. The writing after that is on the wall.
That's a self-fulfilling prophecy given your rhetoric and others like you. Hispanics are culturally conservative. I prefer to be optimistic that our values are shared by all who are willing to work hard and aspire to better things.
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That's a self-fulfilling prophecy given your rhetoric and others like you. Hispanics are culturally conservative. I prefer to be optimistic that our values are shared by all who are willing to work hard and aspire to better things.
If Hisanics are "culturally conservative," why are you always singing their praises? You are always talking about how horrible cultural conservatives are.
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??? I'm trying to decipher what you've written here.
Trump has already publicly stated that he is willing to GIVE the Dreamers a pathway to citizenship. We only hold a very slim majority in the Senate. Secondly, I think it is important to consider the results granting 1.8 million citizenship. That is potentially 1.8 million new DEM voters. The writing after that is on the wall.
AND - unless they get rid of chain migration BEFORE giving the dreamers a path to citizenship, we're talking 11-12 million. New dem voters. Oh, yaaay.
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If Hisanics are "culturally conservative," why are you always singing their praises? You are always talking about how horrible cultural conservatives are.
I'm probably more culturally conservative than you are. I've been married for almost forty years to a girl I met when I was 18. I've never been unemployed, and rarely take a vacation. Both my kids have good jobs, and never gave me the least bit of trouble. I drive American cars and keep 'em until they crumble. I love baseball and jazz. I aspire to moderation in all things. I'm likely the most straight-laced, boring individual you'd ever meet.
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That's a self-fulfilling prophecy given your rhetoric and others like you. Hispanics are culturally conservative. I prefer to be optimistic that our values are shared by all who are willing to work hard and aspire to better things.
Blacks are culturally conservative.
All the optimism in the world doesn't change the fact they, to paraphrase LBJ, will belong to the democrat party for the next 200 years.
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I'm probably more culturally conservative than you are. I've been married for almost forty years to a girl I met when I was 18. I've never been unemployed, and rarely take a vacation. Both my kids have good jobs, and never gave me the least bit of trouble. I drive American cars and keep 'em until they crumble. I love baseball and jazz. I aspire to moderation in all things. I'm likely the most straight-laced, boring individual you'd ever meet.
So you''re a self-hater then? You trash-talk "conservatives" all the time on this board, and lecture them on how they should believe.
No, you are not more "culturally conservative" than I. Not by a long shut, pal.
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I'm probably more culturally conservative than you are. I've been married for almost forty years to a girl I met when I was 18. I've never been unemployed, and rarely take a vacation. Both my kids have good jobs, and never gave me the least bit of trouble. I drive American cars and keep 'em until they crumble. I love baseball and jazz. I aspire to moderation in all things. I'm likely the most straight-laced, boring individual you'd ever meet.
My whacko-liberal sister would make the very same argument.
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Blacks are culturally conservative.
All the optimism in the world doesn't change the fact they, to paraphrase LBJ, will belong to the democrat party for the next 200 years.
:bigsilly:
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I'm probably more culturally conservative than you are.
Cultural Conservatives do not:
Support gay "marriage".
Chain migration or any kind of citizenship for people who came here illegally whether they were a child at the time or not.
Support any type of limitations on the 2nd Amendment.
You fail at three of the big issues that define Cultural Conservatives.
Wuit trying to pretend you're something youu aren't.
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My whacko-liberal sister would make the very same argument.
This person is for laws that permit abortion on demand, suing people into oblivion who don't want to bake wedding cakes for events they consider abomination (putting their own souls at risk of damnation) and stripping self-defense away from other people. And then he lectures us stupidheads on how we need to change our beliefs to match his, under penalty and pain of law if need be, and claims to be more conservative than all of us idiots.
It's some definition of "conservative" that I was not previously familiar with. **nononono*
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Blacks are culturally conservative.
Many times, that assertion is based on church attendance. However, if you’re listening to someone like Fleuger or Wright, you’re probably not culturally conservative at all.
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This person is for laws that permit abortion on demand, suing people into oblivion who don't want to bake wedding cakes for events they consider abomination (putting their own souls at risk of damnation) and stripping self-defense away from other people. And then he lectures us stupidheads on how we need to change our beliefs to match his, under penalty and pain of law if need be, and claims to be more conservative than all of us idiots.
It's some definition of "conservative" that I was not previously familiar with. **nononono*
You've obviously never talked to my whacko-liberal sister. She's still floating the argument that Obama was the most conservative minded president in living history. *****rollingeyes***** **nononono*
It seems to be their new shtick. :shrug:
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That's a self-fulfilling prophecy given your rhetoric and others like you. Hispanics are culturally conservative. I prefer to be optimistic that our values are shared by all who are willing to work hard and aspire to better things.
?? Self fulfilling prophecy? Really?
Key facts about the Latino vote in 2016: (Keep in mind that this is based on eligible Latino voters).
Significant growth in the number of Latino eligible voters has helped make the U.S. electorate more racially and ethnically diverse than ever this year. According to Pew Research Center projections, a record 27.3 million Latinos are eligible to cast ballots, representing 12% of all eligible voters.
Since 2012, the number of Hispanic eligible voters has increased by 4 million, accounting for 37% of the growth in all eligible voters during that span. The Hispanic share of eligible voters in several key battleground states has also gone up.
Latinos have favored the Democratic Party over the Republican Party in every presidential election since at least the 1980s, but their electoral impact has long been limited by low voter turnout and a population concentrated in non-battleground states. Despite large growth in the number of eligible Latino voters, it remains to be seen whether their turnout will set a record in November.
44% of Latino eligible voters and are the main driver of growth in the Latino electorate. From 2012 to 2016, 3.2 million young U.S.-born Latinos came of age and turned 18, accounting for 80% of the increase in Latino eligible voters during this time.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/14/key-facts-about-the-latino-vote-in-2016/ (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/14/key-facts-about-the-latino-vote-in-2016/)
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So you''re a self-hater then? You trash-talk "conservatives" all the time on this board, and lecture them on how they should believe.
No, you are not more "culturally conservative" than I. Not by a long shut, pal.
I oppose social conservatives, not conservatives. Not all political "social conservatives" are culturally conservative - they cheat on their wives and get divorced, drink and do drugs to excess, and sponge off the government whenever they can just like liberals do.
Social conservatives are, speaking generally, authoritarians who want to harness the power of the government to impose their peculiar views on abortion, social minorities and religion. It is one thing to refuse to get an abortion, it is quite another to insist the government criminalize the practice. It is one thing to view homosexuality as an abomination and not to practice it, and quite another to insist that the government deny the law's equal protection to gays and provide legal carte blanche to discriminate against them in the conduct of commerce.
I've never encouraged anyone to get an abortion, and I've never had sexual relations with a man. But I am enough of a REAL conservative to recognize that liberty means that each of us can make these decisions for ourselves, based on our own circumstances, without the heavy hand of government enforcing the rigid rules of the Bible or Quran.
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?? Self fulfilling prophecy? Really?
Key facts about the Latino vote in 2016: (Keep in mind that this is based on eligible Latino voters).
Significant growth in the number of Latino eligible voters has helped make the U.S. electorate more racially and ethnically diverse than ever this year. According to Pew Research Center projections, a record 27.3 million Latinos are eligible to cast ballots, representing 12% of all eligible voters.
Since 2012, the number of Hispanic eligible voters has increased by 4 million, accounting for 37% of the growth in all eligible voters during that span. The Hispanic share of eligible voters in several key battleground states has also gone up.
Latinos have favored the Democratic Party over the Republican Party in every presidential election since at least the 1980s, but their electoral impact has long been limited by low voter turnout and a population concentrated in non-battleground states. Despite large growth in the number of eligible Latino voters, it remains to be seen whether their turnout will set a record in November.
44% of Latino eligible voters and are the main driver of growth in the Latino electorate. From 2012 to 2016, 3.2 million young U.S.-born Latinos came of age and turned 18, accounting for 80% of the increase in Latino eligible voters during this time.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/14/key-facts-about-the-latino-vote-in-2016/ (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/10/14/key-facts-about-the-latino-vote-in-2016/)
Latinos have as much right to the American dream as you do. To heck with your dog-whistle talk about changing "demographics". If you don't want to fight for their votes and support, then so be it.
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Latinos have as much right to the American dream as you do.
As long as they are here legally and became citizens or legal permanent residents pursuant to our immigrationlaws.
To heck with your dog-whistle talk about changing "demographics". If you don't want to fight for their votes and support, then so be it.
"Dog whistle"...now there's a tried and true liberal phrase if I've ever heard one.
Why do you keep up your charade when you've already been exposed?
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Latinos have as much right to the American dream as you do. To heck with your dog-whistle talk about changing "demographics". If you don't want to fight for their votes and support, then so be it.
And so be it. Others don't want to be "big government", that means using the system, government supplements and so on.
Yeah, Jazz, just call others names. After all, we are a nation of immigrants, and they are hard working people with strong traditional Catholic conservative values.
Immigrants On Welfare: CIS Report That Claims 73 Percent Of Foreign-Born Latinos Are A Burden Trashed By Critics
By Cedar Attanasio | Sep 03 2015, 07:37PM EDT
http://www.latintimes.com/immigrants-welfare-cis-report-claims-73-percent-foreign-born-latinos-are-burden-338233 (http://www.latintimes.com/immigrants-welfare-cis-report-claims-73-percent-foreign-born-latinos-are-burden-338233)
Higher incarceration rates, even:
Legal Immigration: Lifeblood of the Left
https://cis.org/OpedsandArticles/Legal-Immigration-Lifeblood-of-Left (https://cis.org/OpedsandArticles/Legal-Immigration-Lifeblood-of-Left)
Not sure if it was legal or illegal immigrants but as a group, they were more liberal than Occupy Wall Street.
Immigration should be diverse, how about 25% Africa, Asia, Europe, Americas? Something like this sounds more fair even.
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Latinos have as much right to the American dream as you do. To heck with your dog-whistle talk about changing "demographics". If you don't want to fight for their votes and support, then so be it.
That dog whistle blows in both directions, JH.
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The Democratic party at least in large swaths of this country is very much a party in decline. They can only make it with immigration and being a party of handouts, as Obamacare did. Now, I definitely believe in Christian-based charity to help out those in need but a lot of this governmental aid is a boondoggle as well.
When, say, the Swedes came over 100, 150 years ago, if there were people in need, the community took care of those people.
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I oppose social conservatives, not conservatives. Not all political "social conservatives" are culturally conservative - they cheat on their wives and get divorced, drink and do drugs to excess, and sponge off the government whenever they can just like liberals do.
Social conservatives are, speaking generally, authoritarians who want to harness the power of the government to impose their peculiar views on abortion, social minorities and religion. It is one thing to refuse to get an abortion, it is quite another to insist the government criminalize the practice. It is one thing to view homosexuality as an abomination and not to practice it, and quite another to insist that the government deny the law's equal protection to gays and provide legal carte blanche to discriminate against them in the conduct of commerce.
I've never encouraged anyone to get an abortion, and I've never had sexual relations with a man. But I am enough of a REAL conservative to recognize that liberty means that each of us can make these decisions for ourselves, based on our own circumstances, without the heavy hand of government enforcing the rigid rules of the Bible or Quran.
Swell, another lecture. Quoted for all to enjoy. **nononono*
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Latinos have as much right to the American dream as you do. To heck with your dog-whistle talk about changing "demographics". If you don't want to fight for their votes and support, then so be it.
Jazz ... first of all that legal Latinos that are already here predominately vote DEM and have been doing so since the '80's. Therefore, granting 3.6 million people (if we include the 1.8 DACA's parents), I believe is handing the DEMS those votes. That figure combined with the majority of Latino legal voters will far exceed the GOP voters; it's not going to matter how hard anyone tries to capture those votes - the DEMS will have already captured their vote and they will hold the majority...so...I find it highly probable that at that point the DEMS will grant amnesty to ALL illegals and if you think that's going to be a wonderful thing and support it, then so be it. Whether you think they are culturally or socially conservative is irrelative -- they vote DEM. The true reason that the DEMS want to grant amnesty and don't want to end chain migration is for the VOTES. This shouldn't be a newsflash for you and most of us figure that out years ago. LBJ's Great Society had nothing to do with empowering blacks or 'equal protection' under the law or 'equal opportunities'; it was all about the VOTES. That shouldn't be a newsflash to you either.
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Swell, another lecture.
Of abject BULLSHIT.
Our resident Leftist has taken projection to an all new high.
It is HE and his fellow Leftists and perverts of the Homo Mafia that are the authoritarians who use the power of the government to impose their views on abortion, minorities, sex and religion. There's not a DAMN THING the guy has ever posted to this board that I have read that could be recognized as Conservative. The guy preaches Liberalism/Leftist dogma and insists it and he are Conservative, same as every other Leftist screws with redefining terms to transform themselves into angels of light.
It is one thing to oppose and protest abortion, it is quite another to empower government criminalize the practice. It is one thing to view homosexuality as good, righteous and moral, and quite another to insist that the government and the courts destroy the livelihoods and businesses of Christians who refuse to use their talents to acknowledge, serve and celebrate homosexual perversion.