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Online mystery-ak

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Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« on: April 26, 2023, 01:34:48 pm »
 washingtonexaminer.com
Why is Trump afraid to debate?
Washington Examiner
~4 minutes

Former President Donald Trump is unarguably the man to beat in the race for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination. Beyond that, he is the 900-pound gorilla of Republican politics, capable with his endorsement of changing primary outcomes — even or particularly if giving nominations to poor candidates.

He also has the brass to declare that he will continue his candidacy even in the unlikely event that he is found guilty of any of the 34 felony charges he faces in New York.

Given such a show of confidence, why is Trump afraid to debate his Republican opponents for the presidency?

There is nothing deeper than cowardice behind a tirade Trump poured on to Truth Social yesterday about the primary debate process:

more
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/editorials/why-is-trump-afraid-to-debate
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Offline catfish1957

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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2023, 01:40:37 pm »
Another Briefer thought this topic was a waste of cyber space. 

I think it needs resolution, or we give Trump to much leverage in '24.
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Offline Kamaji

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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2023, 01:44:59 pm »
Good question.

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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2023, 02:31:19 pm »
Another Briefer thought this topic was a waste of cyber space. 

I think it needs resolution, or we give Trump to much leverage in '24.

That same Briefer (Me) thinks the headline of this piece is a load of bovine fecal matter! Willingness to debate and willingness to participate in known GOTCHA sessions are NOT the same thing.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2023, 02:34:51 pm »
That same Briefer (Me) thinks the headline of this piece is a load of bovine fecal matter! Willingness to debate and willingness to participate in known GOTCHA sessions are NOT the same thing.

 :thumbsup:

Offline catfish1957

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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2023, 02:50:24 pm »
That same Briefer (Me) thinks the headline of this piece is a load of bovine fecal matter! Willingness to debate and willingness to participate in known GOTCHA sessions are NOT the same thing.

Fair enough....  If Trump is such a great strategic businessman and visionary multi-dimensional chess meister, why hasn't he worked out the details of the primary debates in advance?  How long has he been a declared candidate?  I'll tell you...  5 months and 11 days.

In this response he is coming across as flabbergasted and flat-footed.  If he had been proactive, he'd already had worked out the pre-details of any debates.  He might not be as good of a manager as he makes himself out to be.
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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2023, 02:55:55 pm »
Fair enough....  If Trump is such a great strategic businessman and visionary multi-dimensional chess meister, why hasn't he worked out the details of the primary debates in advance?  How long has he been a declared candidate?  I'll tell you...  5 months and 11 days.

In this response he is coming across as flabbergasted and flat-footed.  If he had been proactive, he'd already had worked out the pre-details of any debates.  He might not be as good of a manager as he makes himself out to be.

So, you think Trump has the power to dictate to the media masters?  I don't think so. But I'm just an East Texas country boy.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2023, 02:58:22 pm »
So, you think Trump has the power to dictate to the media masters?  I don't think so. But I'm just an East Texas country boy.

These are RNC primary debates, and anybody who was an actual leader would be able to influence his own primary debates.

That complaint is simply one more implicit concession that Trump is not, in fact, a real leader.  Which begs the question, why vote for someone who cannot lead?

Offline catfish1957

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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2023, 03:04:12 pm »
So, you think Trump has the power to dictate to the media masters?  I don't think so. But I'm just an East Texas country boy.

Same here.  Honestly, anyone who has a 30-40 point poll lead holds all the cards.  In fact he should be able to dictate every aspect of it, down to the most minute detail.  If Trump had properly prepared, all of these details would have been established, and he would be telling Fox, NewsMax, OANN, etc. how, and where this would be conducted.  Instead, he is looking terribly flatfooted and unprepared.

Trump's earned that right by being the candidate the past two POTUS cycles. So I just don't get why he is playing this game.
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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2023, 03:05:03 pm »
These are RNC primary debates, and anybody who was an actual leader would be able to influence his own primary debates.

That complaint is simply one more implicit concession that Trump is not, in fact, a real leader.  Which begs the question, why vote for someone who cannot lead?

Unless it's Donald J. Trump. In his case ALL bets are off. (The establishment fear is palpable.)
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Kamaji

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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2023, 03:07:43 pm »
Unless it's Donald J. Trump. In his case ALL bets are off. (The establishment fear is palpable.)

Maybe that's just because Donald J. Trump is not a real leader.  Which begs the question:  why should people vote for someone who cannot actually lead?

Offline catfish1957

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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2023, 03:13:03 pm »
Maybe that's just because Donald J. Trump is not a real leader.  Which begs the question:  why should people vote for someone who cannot actually lead?

Which is why I mentioned earlier that I am shocked that Trump has come across so blindsided on this matter.  He's had almost 6 months to think about it
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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2023, 03:16:33 pm »
Maybe that's just because Donald J. Trump is not a real leader.  Which begs the question:  why should people vote for someone who cannot actually lead?

I'm definitely not settled on voting for Trump but fair debates are a wholly different matter. I am settled on that.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline catfish1957

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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2023, 03:25:08 pm »
I'm definitely not settled on voting for Trump but fair debates are a wholly different matter. I am settled on that.

Same here.  I really want to see these 2 on the big stage.  It will especially clue us in, on whether RDS is the future of the party.

Right now, outside a historic collapse, I don't see how DJT can blow it.  I've parsed through 40 years of pre- primary polling, and no one has blown a lead like this at this point.  If it is truly a 40% lead as Trump claims.
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Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2023, 03:27:37 pm »
Maybe that's just because Donald J. Trump is not a real leader.  Which begs the question:  why should people vote for someone who cannot actually lead?

Well, they don't have to vote anymore.  We could have a general election now in which no person actually votes.  But total vote count could be +/- 150 million.
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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2023, 03:30:28 pm »
Well, they don't have to vote anymore.  We could have a general election now in which no person actually votes.  But total vote count could be +/- 150 million.

Yeah! There is that!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2023, 05:46:43 pm »
So, you think Trump has the power to dictate to the media masters?  I don't think so. But I'm just an East Texas country boy.

But these RNC debates don't involve any "dictating to media masters.". The moderators and format are established by the Republican National Committee, the chairwoman of which is a Trump ally.

Feels like the next thing to expect from Trump is a hunt for the missing strawberries.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2023, 06:07:29 pm »
That same Briefer (Me) thinks the headline of this piece is a load of bovine fecal matter! Willingness to debate and willingness to participate in known GOTCHA sessions are NOT the same thing.

What's the other side of that though @Bigun ? A press that throws softballs to the candidates? What does that decide?

I get your argument - And I agree in part. But one would hope, even with a fair-and-balanced real journalism, the candidates should exit with a sore hiney.

And in such a condition, whiners walk, right?

So how do you construct *THAT* with a guarantee?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2023, 06:08:54 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2023, 06:13:24 pm »
But these RNC debates don't involve any "dictating to media masters.". The moderators and format are established by the Republican National Committee, the chairwoman of which is a Trump ally.

Feels like the next thing to expect from Trump is a hunt for the missing strawberries.

That is an excellent point!

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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2023, 06:23:11 pm »
What's the other side of that though @Bigun ? A press that throws softballs to the candidates? What does that decide?

I get your argument - And I agree in part. But one would hope, even with a fair-and-balanced real journalism, the candidates should exit with a sore hiney.

And in such a condition, whiners walk, right?

So how do you construct *THAT* with a guarantee?

There are some pretty easy ways to do that with a 1 on 1 debate.  Essentially, you set it up like a trial, with each client having their representatives question both themselves and the other side.  You eliminate the problem of unfair bias by building deliberate and equal bias into the system.

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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2023, 06:31:23 pm »
Because he would have to defend his record debt and COVID response plus his current wish list and it’s cost and practicality

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Offline catfish1957

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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2023, 06:33:10 pm »
Because he would have to defend his record debt and COVID response plus his current wish list and it’s cost and practicality

Like it or not, he's married to Fauxci and his record. 
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2023, 06:43:01 pm »
There are some pretty easy ways to do that with a 1 on 1 debate.  Essentially, you set it up like a trial, with each client having their representatives question both themselves and the other side.  You eliminate the problem of unfair bias by building deliberate and equal bias into the system.

Sure - Fireplace debates - That's why I gravitate toward 'Intellectual Dark Web' styled debates.

But presidential debates are generally not that - More often a stylized formal forum debate with moderation... Outside of an agreed moderation, and reasonable decorum, what else can be done?

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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2023, 07:28:14 pm »
Sure - Fireplace debates - That's why I gravitate toward 'Intellectual Dark Web' styled debates.

But presidential debates are generally not that - More often a stylized formal forum debate with moderation... Outside of an agreed moderation, and reasonable decorum, what else can be done?

Panel of three moderators.   One agreed upon, one selected by each side.   Pretty simple.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Why is Trump afraid to debate?
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2023, 07:38:25 pm »
Panel of three moderators.   One agreed upon, one selected by each side.   Pretty simple.

... Which is often the case... at least in the (two or) three moderators. How they are determined may not be that cut and dried.