GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers

[Right_in_Virginia]

Exactly right. But that's 'fighting liberalism' somehow... 

Exactly wrong.  But throw another Emoji on the barbe .... I'm sure that'll be helpful.

[roamer_1]

I truly don't understand what you mean by this --- but I'd like to.   @roamer_1 .

I have explained it many times before @Right_in_Virginia ... There are three, really four conservative factions in political conservatism:

Libertarianism which is often lumped in with fiscal conservatism, but as I said, they are really two very different focuses. Libertarianism, from the conservative side, is where we get all the ideas wrapped around originalism, to include Constitutional originalism, federalism, state sovereignty, limited government and etc.

Fiscal conservatism, which includes frugality in federal and state spending, balanced budgets remaining 'in the black', Taxing considerations, business and capitalism, local, regional, and national and international trade, and the ideas supporting free enterprise, and the fiscal interactions between the states. Libertarianism and fiscal conservatism intersect in the idea that the best federal government is a government too small to 'help', as a government that can help can also enslave, and they ALWAYS do... And fiscally, a small government does not have the power to influence or regulate trade very much.

Defense and foreign policy conservatism, wherein manifest destiny resides... The idea of a strong defense and the projection of that defense as it interacts with foreign policy and trade. Herein lies the solemn vow to our sworn. That vow is sacrosanct and we owe it to them to not put them in harms way without dire necessity, and to give them every consideration in allowing them every option possible in accomplishing that defense, and damn well backing them to the 9s when liberty is in jeopardy. Let them WIN it, and they will.

And finally, the Christian Right - social conservatives, whose principles parallel the Judeo-Christian Ethic. What goes against God - Specifically Jehovah and/or Jesus Christ - Goes against them too. They will defend Biblical precepts in the political realm, and care more about moral matters than any other.

Those are the factions of Conservatism - And the whole of political Conservatism is to defend and support those factions, promoting all of their unmovable principles. That is what it is *FOR*, and that is what it supports and promotes. IF it is NOT THAT, it is not Conservatism. PERIOD.

When a conservative enters the political arena victory requires from them what it requires from a liberal candidate**: Convince enough people that deeply held principles do, indeed, intertwine between he or she and the voter. 

As I posted above, these six "principles" are deeply held by an increasing number of Americans:

> A growing plurality of voters will choose the side giving away the free stuff they think they need,
> A majority of voters want government to stay out of everyone's bedroom,
> A majority of women voters believe "my body, my choice",
> A plurality of women voters will accept assistance from the government in raising their children,
> A majority of voters want to be thought of as socially compassionate, empathetic and forward thinking,
> A growing plurality of voters believe global warming is a genuine threat

If you're a conservative candidate for national office, where is your intersect with    these principles and the American voters who hold them?


** Before the 2020 election fraud and codifying it through 2021 HR1.

First of all, those are not principles. Those are abominations. Again: A principle is a thing that is always true, and has always been true.

I would be four-square against every issue you have raised, and rightly so. I can tell voters that believe in those issues why I oppose them, but I most certainly oppose them all, as they are all lies.

[roamer_1]

Exactly wrong.  But throw another Emoji on the barbe .... I'm sure that'll be helpful.

No, he is right. Your movement is unanchored and willing o do whatever it takes to win - having nothing but bumper sticker slogans to stand upon. That I have to explain Conservatism to you should be a clue.

[roamer_1]

No, not at all @Hoodat   I'm trying very hard to force someone, anyone, to think strategically.  We can't write off 1/2 the country because we assume they're dead to us.  (Well, not if we really want to win an election)

So you think you are going to get liberals to vote for you... How quaint.

Necessarily that puts you right in the center of the road - a moderate. Move over MurderTurtle... Here comes @Right_in_Virginia ...

You will not out-liberal liberals. That is not where Conservative votes come from. The big kahuna comes from the disaffected, form independents and those who normally do not vote. Not from converting liberals by perverting the message.

[Smokin Joe]

Yes.

He's absolutely right.  He should take his principles, and, with the other five people who agree with him, set up his own political party to fight the Giants.

Of course, maybe he should look to the history of what third parties accomplish before he runs away with his sorry little principles, but people like that can't be bothered with reality.

Reality is such a bore.  Reality says if those people with all their pretty principles do what they want to do, run away and hide in a corner, they can't accomplish what they want to accomplish.   Reality is most definitely not a friendly lady.

But rather than whining all the time about their missing principles, as if their betters don't have a stronger set of principles themselves, why don't they run along and set up that third party and stop crying in public?  Nobody cares about what useless people standing on stainless steel soapboxes do or say or feel.   After a very short while they're just a bothersome annoyance and in the way of constructive discussion and action.

MY principle says America can't be healed until the Americans win reliably at the ballot box and start cleaning up the country.  Reagan was only the first step, and the RINOs undid what he accomplished in one term.   Trump was the second step, and the RINO and Principled Whiners have succeeded in dissolving Trump's accomplishments in six weeks.   

Which means we're supposed to give up and cry, according to the Principled Whiners.

According to the Americans, it means we have to fight harder.

But, go ahead, let your tears flow if it makes you happy.   

Reality is, literally, what we make it. The GOP replaced the Whigs and were a new party. The Whigs went, well, the way of the Whigs. This can happen again if enough people will stop the tired practice of not doing it because "it can't be done". Argue for your limitations, and sure as shit, they're yours.

That's one thing the Communists just do not do. They don't say "We can't", instead they keep chipping away--and that is how mountains wear down and are carried to the sea, one grain at a time. A lot of grains have been moved, significant features of our society and culture and what makes us America have been strategically undermined to the point of catastrophic collapse. Fiscally, educationally, socially, culturally, constitutionally, in virtually every facet of our society there is a flaw serious enough to cause failure, and the Cloward-Piven principle is in full swing with the sheer deluge of enactments and executive orders.

The GOP is doing what, exactly to fight this?

Those who do speak up are marginalized by either Leftists in the MSM or Social Media (e.g.: Rep Greene, who has been put into the wacko category with supposed statements she didn't make) or the scions of the GOPe or RINOs themselves, while the "sane" voices propose impotent solutions to problems that wouldn't even be implemented if they had the power to do so. Y'all keep being suckers, because what you have been doing the last 50 years has only lost ground, despite the efforts of Reagan and Trump (who was scuttled as much by the GOP as the Left).

One more, five more, voices lent to that outcry won't make a whit of difference. Just keep pushing the same buttons and wait for a different result. We all know the 'wish hand' doesn't fill up first.

Let's get back to the election, the FRAUD, the GRANDEST THEFT of all, and you can explain to me where the GOPe outcry was. Where the strident demands for investigations went. Where the objections to the certification of electoral votes were? Why there is no outcry about the intentionally lax security at the Capitol that day and how the ANTIFAs were all over the news but the DOJ can claim there is "no evidence of their presence". WTF???

The GOP should be on that like white on rice, but all we hear is crickets.

And that is what you want us to support?
Meh.

The Party isn't one to ride the river with, and I ain't about to sign on to that.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Fiscal conservatism,

No one's arguing or debating this pillar of conservatism .. at least none here.  My question remains the same:  how does a conservative candidate for national office convince Americans of this virtue and articulate a plan that does not frighten the bejeezus out of them? 

And, don't tell me, again, this is not important.  This is paramount! 

Defense and foreign policy conservatism, wherein manifest destiny resides... The idea of a strong defense and the projection of that defense as it interacts with foreign policy and trade. .

This pillar is the easy one ... it's already a win-win for conservative politicians.  Add on "Back the Blue" and this pillar is strengthened.   This is not a problem for conservative candidates.

And finally, the Christian Right - social conservatives, whose principles parallel the Judeo-Christian Ethic. What goes against God - Specifically Jehovah and/or Jesus Christ - Goes against them too. They will defend Biblical precepts in the political realm, and care more about moral matters than any other.

This is a problem for conservative candidates; in fact it is THE problem.  It's what gives birth to the conservatives' reputation for preaching, intrusion and sanctimony that puts off those who support the first two pillars of conservatism.

Conservatives need to find a way to respect a woman's belief that it's her body her choice.  Want to save babies from abortion?  Find a way to help the (often indigent or teenage) pregnant woman --- even if you have to spend a couple of bucks.  Ease adoption.  Stop proclaiming conservatives are going to take away choice --- start proving conservatives are going to give pregnant women real choice, and it's not going to cost her a thing.

I don't know what conservatives do with gay marriage, gender reassignment, etc. since they're already here.  We can back communities -- not unions, not the states, not the federal government --- setting agendas (and presenters) for story time for toddlers and preschoolers, sex education in school.  Promote ending sex parades for any reason, including gay pride.  Back and promote the end of sex change procedures, of any kind, before the age of 18.  Promote stopping the asinine 300 genders.  I'm sure there's a deep pocket of voters who would jump on this!

I think there's also a fourth pillar of conservatism and that's originalist  judges.  But we'd do better promoting this as protecting our founding principles and the rule of law rather than a backdoor to ending abortion and/or gay marriage.

Those are the factions of Conservatism - And the whole of political Conservatism is to defend and support those factions, promoting all of their unmovable principles. That is what it is *FOR*, and that is what it supports and promotes. IF it is NOT THAT, it is not Conservatism. PERIOD.

The only thing that separates you and me is I'm trying to find a way to help conservatives win; while you'd be happy losing as long your principles never take a shower or change clothes.

[Right_in_Virginia]

So you think you are going to get liberals to vote for you... How quaint ...

I'm not running for office, but other conservatives do.  There's nothing quaint about knowing a conservative cannot win a national election with votes from only conservatives.  It's smart.   And the best candidates act accordingly.

[Smokin Joe]

No, not at all @Hoodat   I'm trying very hard to force someone, anyone, to think strategically.  We can't write off 1/2 the country because we assume they're dead to us.  (Well, not if we really want to win an election)

What do we do with these folks: ?

> A growing plurality of voters will choose the side giving away the free stuff they think they need,
> A majority of voters want government to stay out of everyone's bedroom,
> A majority of women voters believe "my body, my choice",
> A plurality of women voters will accept assistance from the government in raising their children,
> A majority of voters want to be thought of as socially compassionate, empathetic and forward thinking,
> A growing plurality of voters believe global warming is a genuine threat

If you're a conservative candidate for national office, where is your intersect with    these principles and the American voters who hold them?

We better come up with a plan, and soon.  (Hint:  Where does DJT intersect with 75+ million Americans?)

There ain't no free lunch.

Government handouts come with government control. Who knows what you need or how you live better than you? So stand on your own feet as best you can and reject the bait.

Substituting the "patriarchy" of (actually partnership with) a husband with the "special interest" edicts of the Government is a poor choice for women. It provides an illusion of self-sufficiency that is false, and a 9 to 5 substitute for a 24/7/365 partner.   Had we stuck to some social principles now considered archaic, marriage might not have been trivialized and the choices people made might have been better and more mature, and those better marriages might have survived. Marriage, birth in wedlock instead of the baby mama/daddy hookup culture would reduce the call for the State to step in and be the provider the daddy wasn't. Besides, there has been enough social change that marriage is a division/sharing of duties, not a contest to see who is boss. While government isn't in their bedroom, it is in everything else. I don't think government has a place in anyone's bedroom (home), either, but the behaviour outside that sanctuary is certainly subject to some constraints. Otherwise, the sickos and the pedophiles will just be part of the problem.

Your choices might end where other lives are concerned, and for those intent on taking those lives at the earliest stages, including after birth, at some point we have to say "No". Murder is murder. Instead, the means of preventing pregnancy have been lost in the canards about "victims of rape or incest" which shouldn't be happening anyway, but those relatively rare instances are being used to justify a million dead innocents a year.  Even the Nazis and the Communists haven't quite equaled that, though we don't know how many Chinese babies met a similar fate. Prevention is simple enough. Use it if you don't want to have a baby, and do away with policy which rewards irresponsibility.

After 40 years of babble about how the oceans are going to flood us all out, (they haven't, not even the low lying islands of the Maldives), maybe it's time to credibly fight the nonsense used to claim that a global climate catastrophe is imminent --next year, or in 10 years, or whatever. Demand that "developing economies" meet the same standards we are saddled with, because a ton of carbon will have just as much effect in India or China as it will in Illinois. Impose those rules evenly, or demand the rules be removed so we can prepare for the disaster about to engulf us all (again). We need honest data, not the cooked books we're presented.

Being socially compassionate, empathetic, and forward thinking are not incompatible. The biggest lie is that the Left is any of these things. Their "compassion" is a show, their "empathy" only to trot out poster children for political gain, if not to get money from the rubes, and "forward thinking" has bugger-all to do with a truly sustainable culture, and everything to do with keeping them in a position to wield power and profit. Unfortunately, the same claim can be made about much of the GOP in DC and elsewhere.

Truly forward thinking people would establish their culture on and reinforce those basic fiscal and social principles which enable sustained growth, strength, strong families which are the bedrock of a culture or a representative government, and those Conservative principles @roamer_1 embraces. To do anything else is folly, as we are finding out.

[Right_in_Virginia]

A lot of excellently crafted sentences in your post    @Smokin Joe

But not one that answers the question you're responding to: 

I'm trying very hard to force someone, anyone, to think strategically.  We can't write off 1/2 the country because we assume they're dead to us.  (Well, not if we really want to win an election)

Care to take a crack at a few more sentences? 

[roamer_1]

No one's arguing or debating this pillar of conservatism .. at least none here.  My question remains the same:  how does a conservative candidate for national office convince Americans of this virtue and articulate a plan that does not frighten the bejeezus out of them? 

And, don't tell me, again, this is not important.  This is paramount! 

I notice you quietly threw libertarianism right under the bus, right off the bat - Which is where your originalist judges belong.

Libertarianism and fiscal conservatism are the very root of Conservatism. They are the basis of Goldwater, and carried on in Reagan. And they are often together for the same reason that your schemes will never work. That being that the federal government has no business intruding in any of the things you think we need to.

Here's your angle: We ain't got the damn  money. It ain't right to spend other peoples' money, especially not our grandchildrens'. And it is that simple. The Conservative position is that you will do better with your own money in your own pocket, and you are the best to captain your own freedom.

This is a problem for conservative candidates; in fact it is THE problem.  It's what gives birth to the conservatives' reputation for preaching, intrusion and sanctimony that puts off those who support the first two pillars of conservatism.

Conservatives need to find a way to respect a woman's belief that it's her body her choice. 

No. we do not. She made her choice when her knees came apart. It is not her body that is at question. It is the child's body that is to be murdered. The woman is due for nothing more than a 9 month consequence. The baby will be murdered.

Your view on this is completely skewed.

Want to save babies from abortion?  Find a way to help the (often indigent or teenage) pregnant woman --- even if you have to spend a couple of bucks.  Ease adoption.  Stop proclaiming conservatives are going to take away choice --- start proving conservatives are going to give pregnant women real choice, and it's not going to cost her a thing.

The real choice is not to partake. Everything after that bears a consequence. The real choice is to remain virgin, don't hand it out like candy, and get married. THEN participate. And if you miss, get married.

The ONLY way forward is to admit that sex is not merely transactional. There are real consequences, and you MUST reap those consequences. That is the truth. Anything other than that adds to the problem, which is that sluts bear bastards, and there is no way around that except to discourage sluts and bastards - and make the father marry. Shotgun weddings. That fixed it for thousands of years, and the only other way there IS is government welfare, which reduces a woman and her offspring to chattel.

The easy way around it is the one that has worked since ancient days. It is the ONLY way.

I don't know what conservatives do with gay marriage, gender reassignment, etc. since they're already here.  We can back communities -- not unions, not the states, not the federal government --- setting agendas (and presenters) for story time for toddlers and preschoolers, sex education in school.  Promote ending sex parades for any reason, including gay pride.  Back and promote the end of sex change procedures, of any kind, before the age of 18.  Promote stopping the asinine 300 genders.  I'm sure there's a deep pocket of voters who would jump on this!

Republicans let it happen. There is no way that such edicts should come down from on high. Republicans ALLOWED it to be shoved down our throats. They favored it. Take it out of the federal purvue and put it back in the hands of states and localities and it will disappear.

The only thing that separates you and me is I'm trying to find a way to help conservatives win; while you'd be happy losing as long your principles never take a shower or change clothes.

No, you are throwing principles under the bus. There is a reason why they are right. and there is a reason why to do otherwise is flat wrong. Think it through.

[roamer_1]

I'm not running for office, but other conservatives do.  There's nothing quaint about knowing a conservative cannot win a national election with votes from only conservatives.  It's smart.   And the best candidates act accordingly.

How would anyone know?

[Smokin Joe]

A lot of excellently crafted sentences in your post    @Smokin Joe

But not one that answers the question you're responding to: 

Care to take a crack at a few more sentences?

We do not have the ability to force anyone to be responsible. There are no political solutions to cultural problems.

We can't even get responsible behaviour from our elected representatives. We can't even get policy which no longer subsidizes irresponsibility, instead it is the praised, preferred, coddled, and celebrated behaviour pattern common to the fawning endorsement of the Left, in the  eternal pursuit of popularity with a segment off our culture more deserving of a spanking than a participation trophy.

The lies in the media and entertainment industry, even social media, all point in the same (wrong) direction.

At some point, you have to either step out of the way, and let the lemmings take the plunge, or be trampled/swept along. The ones who are determined to hurtle themselves and the society into the abyss will only be irritated by your attempts to dissuade them (evident even here), and you will weary yourself attempting to do so to little avail, except assuaging the moral compulsion to make the attempt.

I agree with @roamer_1. Time to step aside and get out of the way of the herd. The stampede is heading toward the jump at a full charge, and the ones behind it are fanning the prairie fire driving them. The way to salvation is narrow and steep and none bent on the path of least resistance are interested.

Warm your hands at the book pile, secure your copies against the day, when like Dead Sea Scrolls, they might bring about a new wave of thought and a restoration of liberty, and move quietly to the edge of the herd as it starts off...

[Right_in_Virginia]

I notice you quietly threw libertarianism right under the bus, right off the bat - Which is where your originalist judges belong.

Seriously, you're taking umbrage with me moving originalist judges from "libertarian" to "conservative"?  Seriously?  Wow, I'm starting to see why your living with a horse is a pretty smart move.  Any arrangement with another human you'd never get a moment's peace.   

Here's your angle: We ain't got the damn  money. It ain't right to spend other peoples' money, especially not our grandchildrens'. And it is that simple. The Conservative position is that you will do better with your own money in your own pocket, and you are the best to captain your own freedom.

Big whoop.  We've been saying this for years.  The meaningful, third rail is spending cuts and no one's stuck a fork in it.  Care to be the first?

No. we do not. She made her choice when her knees came apart. It is not her body that is at question. It is the child's body that is to be murdered. The woman is due for nothing more than a 9 month consequence. The baby will be murdered.

The real choice is not to partake. Everything after that bears a consequence. The real choice is to remain virgin, don't hand it out like candy, and get married. THEN participate. And if you miss, get married.

Let the record show you'd advise conservative candidates to tell women what to do with their knees because the shelf life on their virginity will carry them all the way to the marital altar or the funeral pyre, whichever comes first.

I may need to reconsider thinking you living with only a horse is a good idea. 

The ONLY way forward is to admit that sex is not merely transactional. There are real consequences, and you MUST reap those consequences. That is the truth. Anything other than that adds to the problem, which is that sluts bear bastards, and there is no way around that except to discourage sluts and bastards - and make the father marry. Shotgun weddings. That fixed it for thousands of years, and the only other way there IS is government welfare, which reduces a woman and her offspring to chattel.

The easy way around it is the one that has worked since ancient days. It is the ONLY way.

Is there anyone still surprised that so many Americans think conservatives are judgmental, intrusive, sanctimonious blowhards who should be shunned at all costs, especially at the ballot box?   

Is there anyone who still thinks conservatives on the campaign trail should spend more time on social issues?

Show of hands, please.

[Smokin Joe]

Seriously, you're taking umbrage with me moving originalist judges from "libertarian" to "conservative"?  Seriously?  Wow, I'm starting to see why your living with a horse is a pretty smart move.  Any arrangement with another human you'd never get a moment's peace.   


Big whoop.  We've been saying this for years.  The meaningful, third rail is spending cuts and no one's stuck a fork in it.  Care to be the first?


Let the record show you'd advise conservative candidates to tell women what to do with this knees because the shelf life on their virginity will carry them all the way to the marital altar or the funeral pyre, whichever comes first.

I may need to reconsider thinking you living with only a horse is a good idea. 


Is there anyone still surprised that so many Americans think conservatives are judgmental, intrusive, sanctimonious blowhards who should be shunned at all costs, especially at the ballot box?   

Is there anyone who still thinks conservatives on the campaign trail should spend more time on social issues?

Show of hands, please.

This is why the GOP will not succeed. Lost in the caring feeling morass is the consideration that sometimes "tough love" is the better option. What often seems like empathy, sympathy, caring is often just an excuse to do the easy thing, to say "you poor dear, who knew at 20 years old that if you have sex without any means of preventing pregnancy you just might get knocked up?" Seriously? They've been getting sex education since grade school but no one saw to it that they knew that? Or are y'all being played for suckers by people of the mindset that if they have three kids by three dads they will make enough support and welfare money that they'll never have to work? (Yes, I overheard just that master plan from one young lady, and promptly warned any young feller I knew about it).

If you don't have the strength of conviction to stand for what is right, what is wrong will prevail, and today's politicians don't have it.

[roamer_1]

Seriously, you're taking umbrage with me moving originalist judges from "libertarian" to "conservative"?  Seriously?  Wow, I'm starting to see why your living with a horse is a pretty smart move.  Any arrangement with another human you'd never get a moment's peace.   

Well, that ain't the point. Originalist judges are but a wee part of libertarian ideals. Federalism would be more important. The key point being REDUCING federal power..Not feds throwing the states a judicial bone now and then.  And I have always found judges to be a crap-shoot. And Tumpy's picks didn't help that either.

But I DO agree with you that horses and dogs make better company than hoomin beans... always been that way, and likely always will be. 

Big whoop.  We've been saying this for years.  The meaningful, third rail is spending cuts and no one's stuck a fork in it.  Care to be the first?

Sure. Gimme the federal credit card. I have a nice set of sharply honed scissors. I'll fix it in minutes.

Let the record show you'd advise conservative candidates to tell women what to do with this knees because the shelf life on their virginity will carry them all the way to the marital altar or the funeral pyre, whichever comes first.

I am merely speaking the truth... And the destitute proof is scattered far and wide in trailer houses all over this land. Single mamma, bastard kids, gangs and drugs, more single mammas. it is a never ending cycle.

The choice is quite literally a small but decent house, clean and decently appointed, with a big yard full of gardens and swing-sets, dogs and children, with a loving mother and a father who's only reason for life is to kill any sombich that threatens his family... Or crack addicted baby mammas in trailer courts with several bastard kids... There ain't much in between.

I truly weep for what feminism has done to every single facet of female life. You see, I see it all the time the way it ought to be. All you have to do is go 10 miles out of town. The last place women are still women is in the country - and that is fading fast. The infection is entering the very heartland.

But you seem to want to embrace it, and stop fighting for what is right and true.

I may need to reconsider thinking you living with only a horse is a good idea. 

No, that's the only thing you got right.

Is there anyone still surprised that so many Americans think conservatives are judgmental, intrusive, sanctimonious blowhards who should be shunned at all costs, especially at the ballot box?   

Not judgemental or intrusive. Just speaking the truth. And with it, declaring that the federal government is driving the whole thing. Go look at single parent household and divorce statistics from the last three decades, and the fact of it is undeniable. the very worst thing to do is foster more single parent households. Facts don't care about your feelings.

So stop feeding the lie.

Is there anyone who still thinks conservatives on the campaign trail should spend more time on social issues?

Show of hands, please.

 

[roamer_1]

This is why the GOP will not succeed.

[...]

If you don't have the strength of conviction to stand for what is right, what is wrong will prevail, and today's politicians don't have it.

That is a bare fact. And they will not fix a damn thing.

[Right_in_Virginia]

We do not have the ability to force anyone to be responsible. There are no political solutions to cultural problems.

I agree, in part @Smokin Joe  I don't think there's a political solution to sexual practices, getting pregnant, or marriage.

But cultural norms include freedom, the true and full American story --- including our Founders, and the meaning of "God, Country, Family".  I think we need to stay in this fight -- or this, too, will be decided for us.

We can't even get responsible behaviour from our elected representatives. We can't even get policy which no longer subsidizes irresponsibility, instead it is the praised, preferred, coddled, and celebrated behaviour pattern common to the fawning endorsement of the Left, in the  eternal pursuit of popularity with a segment off our culture more deserving of a spanking than a participation trophy.

I'm not talking about behavior modification through political means.  In fact, I'm of the opinion the less conservatives speak to this, the better politically we will be.   In four short years Donald Trump had American flags waving again, America "first" making sense, pride was back, people talking about the American dream, people running to the employment office, people "fighting" back against socialism and the diminishment of our individual freedoms.  This stuff is just as contagious, if not more, that the liberal bullshit.  If we stay on this track, we won't have to worry about spankings and trophies.

The lies in the media and entertainment industry, even social media, all point in the same (wrong) direction.

Of course they do.  But don't overlook the 75+ million Americans who took what they were spewing, wrapped it in a big red bow and threw it away on election day.  Please, don't underestimate the basic common sense of the American people.  This is the one lie that ties all the other lies together.
 

At some point, you have to either step out of the way, and let the lemmings take the plunge, or be trampled/swept along. The ones who are determined to hurtle themselves and the society into the abyss will only be irritated by your attempts to dissuade them (evident even here), and you will weary yourself attempting to do so to little avail, except assuaging the moral compulsion to make the attempt.

I don't think we've arrived at this point.  Are we close? Yes.  Are we there yet?  NO
.

I agree with @roamer_1. Time to step aside and get out of the way of the herd. The stampede is heading toward the jump at a full charge,.

Not yet, Joe.  Not yet.  Can't give them a free rein just yet.  Recognize that November held some good news.  The anti-American Marxist brigade had to steal the government to have the power they now have.  --- We need to keep the people with us, and we need to STOP HR1.

Warm your hands at the book pile, secure your copies against the day, when like Dead Sea Scrolls, they might bring about a new wave of thought and a restoration of liberty, and move quietly to the edge of the herd as it starts off...

I'll admit it:  This is a nice, poetic ending to a very depressing post. 

But another ray of good news is conservatives are uniquely positioned and uniquely trusted to stop the book burnings, stop the cancel culture, stop the socialism.  WE are the party of freedom!  Methinks Americans are waiting patiently for us to get our political act together, which we are doing, BTW. 

Now is NOT the time to step aside.

[dancer]

The problem there is that the RINO and GOPe wings will do all in their power to sabotage anyone who isn't part of their 'club'. We just saw that go down, and they are not to be trusted any more than the Dems, imho. While they will 'virtue signal' with votes, they cannot be counted on to hold the line, nor work together. Even the Communists, Homosexuals, Racially charged groups of the left will circle wagons in a common lager for their mutual benefit, but the GOP just invokes the circular firing squad.

Time to drain the SWAMP!  Take them down!

Mitch's pets:

Rob Portman (Ohio)
Lamar Alexander (Tennessee)
Ben Sasse (Nebraska)
Roy Blunt (Missouri)
Susan Collins (Maine)
Lisa Murkowski (Alaska)
John Cornyn (Texas) John Thune (South Dakota)
Mitt Romney (Utah)
Mike Braun and Todd Young (Indiana)
Tim Scott (South Carolina)
Rick Scott and Marco Rubio (Florida)
Chuck Grassley (Iowa)
Richard Burr (North Carolina)
Pat Toomey (Pennsylvania)
Martha McSally (Arizona)
Jerry Moran and Pat Roberts (Kansas)
Richard Shelby (Alabama).

[dancer]

Good observation; I'm not as in tune with Trump as you are and haven't paid attention to the "thumbs up".

 Meeting with Noem is a positive. I remember the protesters trying to block people from attending the speech at Rushmore and she had things fairly under control.  I've been very impressed with her ever since her speech that night.

Uh, no.  "Noem has a federal record that goes beyond her laudable COVID response and her brief time in the governor's mansion.  She served in Congress from 2011 to 2019, where she cast votes that affected all Americans, not just those in South Dakota.  Alas, reality has a way of throwing cold water on us all.

Archives Home → Articles
March 8, 2021
Kristi Noem for President? Not So Fast.
By Denise McAllister
Governor of South Dakota Kristi Noem made headlines in 2020 for keeping her state open during the COVID-19 outbreak and opposing Faucian dictates about masks, stay-at-home orders, and church closures.  To this, conservatives applauded — and rightly so.  But does holding the line during a pandemic in a state with less than 900 thousand people — about the size of Charlotte, North Carolina — now warrant the frenetic swell of support for Noem among conservatives to be the next vice president or even president?  Absolutely not — especially at time when the fight for constitutional conservative values is more important than ever.

Noem said in her speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference, where she put on a visually stunning show, that "conservatives must be smarter than progressives."  Indeed they must — starting with the people they rally around to be their leaders.  After listening to her speech, one would walk away thinking she fits the bill.  She checked all the boxes: told the harrowing tale of keeping her state open in defiance of draconian demands, made jokes about the incompetence of the D.C. media (one could just hear the echo of Sarah Palin's lame-stream media quips), talked enthusiastically about America's founding and the Constitution, rallied the troops for limited government and our God-given rights, praised good old-fashioned American individuality, derided identity politics, told a touching personal story about her cowboy father, and ended with a plea for our children and their future.

Perfect.  Just what all conservatives long to hear, and much like — the comparison is simply too obvious to ignore — Palin in her prime.  We loved the Alaskan governor too.  Sassy, fiery, intelligent, pretty, and 100-percent Americana.

Unlike Palin, however, Noem has a federal record that goes beyond her laudable COVID response and her brief time in the governor's mansion.  She served in Congress from 2011 to 2019, where she cast votes that affected all Americans, not just those in South Dakota.  Alas, reality has a way of throwing cold water on us all.

Noem waxes eloquent about freedom, conservatism, and the Constitution, but when it came to voting, she was decidedly purple in her ideology and leadership within the House of Representatives.  Contrary to conservative values, she voted for the bloated $855-billion Cromnibus spending package, voted against repealing federal biofuel and energy subsidy programs, voted against farm bill work requirements, voted against reducing funding for assistance housing programs, and voted against reducing funding for essential air service programs and other alternative energy requirements.  However, she has been consistently pro-life and voted to bar funding of Obama's policy to grant amnesty to illegal aliens, though at the time of this vote, she had an underwhelming 51-percent liberty score across the board."

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/03/kristi_noem_for_president_not_so_fast.html

[sneakypete]

@roamer_1

Quote from: roamer_1 on Today at 02:22:16 AM

   

The ONLY way forward is to admit that sex is not merely transactional.

I,for one,have NEVER thought that sex  was transactional unless it was for cash. Normally,it is done because two people find each other attractive,or even just because they happen to be available  to one another in time of sexual need. Which is also why most people married one another. Their only other option was to never marry or  have a family.

What a bleeped up world you live in to consider sex to primarily be a transaction.



 

There are real consequences, and you MUST reap those consequences.

.. 

Usually there ARE no consequences.  I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that there is,unless you have lived a very shallow,guilt-filled life.

Yes,SOMETIMES there ARE consequences,such as catching VD or an unwanted pregnancy. Which to ME seems to be the primary reason to restrict legal sex to adults. Adults are SUPPOSED to be mature enough and financially capable of dealing with the consequences,including raising a child if that becomes necessary.

That is the truth. Anything other than that adds to the problem, which is that sluts bear bastards,

I literally don't know how to rationally respond to such an ignorant,damnfool attitude,other that to say you have my sympathy for having been raised to believe such ignorant crap.

No doubt "GAWD" told you that women who have sex and aren't married are all sluts?

and there is no way around that except to discourage sluts and bastards - and make the father marry. Shotgun weddings.

Yeah,what could POSSIBLY go wrong there? Other than child abuse,wife abuse,drunken assaults,children running away from unsafe homes,etc,etc,etc?

That fixed it for thousands of years,

There is a possibility you may be legally insane,and I am being too hard on you. If so,I apologize,even though I no longer expect you to understand why.

and the only other way there IS is government welfare, which reduces a woman and her offspring to chattel.

Here is a suggestion. How about you and your Gawd pay all the expenses? After all,you are the ones telling people how to live their lives,so why shouldn't YOU be the ones responsible for paying the bills?

[Cyber Liberty]

Time to drain the SWAMP!  Take them down!

Mitch's pets:

Rob Portman (Ohio)
Lamar Alexander (Tennessee)
Ben Sasse (Nebraska)
Roy Blunt (Missouri)
Susan Collins (Maine)
Lisa Murkowski (Alaska)
John Cornyn (Texas) John Thune (South Dakota)
Mitt Romney (Utah)
Mike Braun and Todd Young (Indiana)
Tim Scott (South Carolina)
Rick Scott and Marco Rubio (Florida)
Chuck Grassley (Iowa)
Richard Burr (North Carolina)
Pat Toomey (Pennsylvania)
Martha McSally (Arizona)
Jerry Moran and Pat Roberts (Kansas)
Richard Shelby (Alabama).

McSally is not in the Senate, she got beaten by a Rat last year.

[Cyber Liberty]

This has been an excellent thread for thought.  I'll be mulling this over before I run for something else in 2022.

[bigheadfred]

This has been an excellent thread for thought.  I'll be mulling this over before I run for something else in 2022.

By 2022 we will all probably be running for the hills.

[dfwgator]

If idiots prefer the Democrats to Trumpers, then that's their problem, not mine.

[Hoodat]

No, not at all @Hoodat   I'm trying very hard to force someone, anyone, to think strategically.  We can't write off 1/2 the country because we assume they're dead to us.  (Well, not if we really want to win an election)

What do we do with these folks: ?

@Right_in_Virginia

A sizeable majority of voters will vote for double-digit growth rates brought about by balancing the budget and ending the government drain on our economy.  They will vote to put a stop to the endless line of 'free sh*t' to people who don't want to work.  They will vote to stopping illegals from coming here just to get 'free' [sic] handouts.  A majority of both men and women believe that abortion should be restricted.  And Conservatives especially believe that government has no business in our bedroom.  They are already socially compassionate, empathetic, and forward thinking (as opposed to leftists who advocate a return to the decadence of ancient Rome).

Your "plurality" premises make no sense in regards to binomial options where plurality doesn't exist.

Our mission is not to compromise with evil.  Our mission is to overcome evil.