Author Topic: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers  (Read 28488 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline andy58-in-nh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,779
  • Gender: Male
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #300 on: March 11, 2021, 07:57:57 pm »
Here is what too many of you forget. We can't fix anything...we can't advance any conservative principles...we cannot move the nation back towards justice and sanity...we cannot turn the budget around or secure the border....if we lose elections.

I think its fair to say that nearly everyone here believes in the advancement of conservatism as our governing philosophy...but some of you think simply being conservative results, automatically, in electoral victory. So let me shock some of you...it doesn't. We have to communicate at a human and common sense level...we have to persuade rather than deliver moral lectures from an ivory lectern on rectitude that lack any sense of empathy, love, or understanding...we cannot hide in our mountain cabins spouting cliche's about our own conservative authenticity while making idiotic proclamations that there's no difference between a Mike Pence and a Kamala Harris....and we can't condemn our own leaders when they don't magically fix all of our budget excesses and balance our budget with their magic wands.

We can KNOW where we want conservatism to take us...fiscally...and yet understand what is politically possible for ANY leader. Doing as some here advocate...for example, instantly passing a balanced budget...would have destroyed conservatism as a political force for a generation. We can be principled without being suicidal morons...in political terms.

We DO need to be tactical....we do need to think strategically...we do need to cull RINO's and dingbat NT's like Romney/Bush/Cheney/ and others. We cannot afford to execute a full scale "purging" of the party, nor can we afford to split into 3rd parties and factions. Again, such things can only end in generational defeat.

We have to talk to people at their level...as in reach out to minorities and women and offer COMPASSIONED and reasoned arguments for why conservatism will make their lives better...we need to talk to millenials and younger voters in a way that DOES NOT sound like "grumpy grandpa bah-humbug" ranting. Quite frankly, the way roamer1 communicates his views...is precisely why so many see conservatism as anachronistic, uncaring, and irrational. And I say that KNOWING that roamer is right on nearly every issues...his positions are correct...but commuicating conservatism as a moral and angry sermon turns people to liberalism. ITs a a dimwitted tactic that feels good and loses elections...and losing elections is precisely how conservatism dies.

So quit damn trying to feel good about how f'ing pure you are as a conservative, and start trying to win some people over to our philosophy with reason, compassion and empathy...without all the moral grandstanding, preaching and condescension.

That is how we win....and that is what the President was doing before the NT/RINO's undercut him at every turn and put us ALL where we are now.

Good post. We can dump the RINO's and still attract new Republican voters by sticking to and explaining our principles in language that makes sense to people in their daily lives.
"The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Offline Mesaclone

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,407
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #301 on: March 11, 2021, 08:05:24 pm »
Good post. We can dump the RINO's and still attract new Republican voters by sticking to and explaining our principles in language that makes sense to people in their daily lives.

Yes...we don't have to talk to people as if we're the product of a mating between Gabby Hayes and Jimmy Swaggart...you know...like roamer!  j/k  =)
We have the best government that money can buy. Mark Twain

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,260
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #302 on: March 11, 2021, 08:09:30 pm »
You need to hone your reading skills...because no one here is calling for "nanny" anything. There's a difference between expecting people to be responsible and accountable for their actions....which is the genuinely conservative stance....and preaching down to them like some sort of condescending Jimmy Swaggart A-hole...which seems to be the common approach of the NT group around here.

Hey bruh... It ain't like you ain't preachin down to me. That's all I get is condescension. And in the middle of it all, you admit that I'm right! Pick one side or the other. you can't have both.

Offline Mesaclone

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,407
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #303 on: March 11, 2021, 08:11:58 pm »
Hey bruh... It ain't like you ain't preachin down to me. That's all I get is condescension. And in the middle of it all, you admit that I'm right! Pick one side or the other. you can't have both.

You are right on the issues. Wrong on the delivery. Wrong on the tactics of winning elections. Wrong on the strategy of winning the hearts and minds of voters.

And I'm not condescending to you...its more like I'm beating my head against a wall hoping to make a small dent in the bricks.

We have the best government that money can buy. Mark Twain

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,260
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #304 on: March 11, 2021, 08:21:53 pm »
You are right on the issues. Wrong on the delivery. Wrong on the tactics of winning elections. Wrong on the strategy of winning the hearts and minds of voters.


How the hell would you know? There hasn't been a true conservative message out there for YEARS, except Cruz, who came in second... No slouch. There ain't a damn thing wrong with telling the people the truth, right down the line. Give them a real and glaring contrast to the half-assed RINO-speak that is the usual. Stop trying to win Democrats. Tell the damn truth.

Now, in your favor, I will admit that my personal delivery is strong - But then, I ain't a politico. And I am among Conservatives who ought to understand. And don't.
 
Quote
And I'm not condescending to you...its more like I'm beating my head against a wall hoping to make a small dent in the bricks.

Nah... What's with the purity bullshit? Purely talking RINO smack with that, and you know it. The difference is that your condescension is party-line so you think it gets a pass.

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,597
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #305 on: March 11, 2021, 08:42:13 pm »
This is all well and good, but good conservatives are not giving up and are running for offices on the GOP ticket.  I am not alone, despite the comments on this thread.  :whistle:
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Right_in_Virginia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 80,286
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #306 on: March 11, 2021, 09:14:19 pm »
You are right on the issues. Wrong on the delivery. Wrong on the tactics of winning elections. Wrong on the strategy of winning the hearts and minds of voters.

And I'm not condescending to you...its more like I'm beating my head against a wall hoping to make a small dent in the bricks.

Exactly right @Mesaclone

Offline Lincolncollector

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 24
  • Gender: Male
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #307 on: March 11, 2021, 09:18:27 pm »
The big problem with Trump is that he was never able to soften the way he delivered his message. I fully support his approach to capitalism, foreign policy and his dislike for the corrupt news media. The trouble is it was all confrontation and not enough reconciliation. I understand that the Russia hoax pushed him into that demeanor, but it was also a trap.

If Trump and given a speech in prime time from the Oval Office about the Covet crisis, he would have been much better off than he was with his rambling press conferences. If he had looked at some of the science, and noted that this is a highly contagious and dangerous disease for certain segments of the population, he would have fared better politically. If he had taken more of the “We are all in this together” approach and emphasized his commitment to getting a vaccine ASAP, the Democrats could not have laid a hand on him.

I recognize that there was a lot of cheating in the counting of the votes. My position is that we will never know the true results of the 2020 presidential election. Still if Trump had looked more controlled, the Democrats might not have been to steal enough votes to win.

Offline Mesaclone

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,407
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #308 on: March 11, 2021, 09:43:50 pm »
The big problem with Trump is that he was never able to soften the way he delivered his message. I fully support his approach to capitalism, foreign policy and his dislike for the corrupt news media. The trouble is it was all confrontation and not enough reconciliation. I understand that the Russia hoax pushed him into that demeanor, but it was also a trap.

If Trump and given a speech in prime time from the Oval Office about the Covet crisis, he would have been much better off than he was with his rambling press conferences. If he had looked at some of the science, and noted that this is a highly contagious and dangerous disease for certain segments of the population, he would have fared better politically. If he had taken more of the “We are all in this together” approach and emphasized his commitment to getting a vaccine ASAP, the Democrats could not have laid a hand on him.

I recognize that there was a lot of cheating in the counting of the votes. My position is that we will never know the true results of the 2020 presidential election. Still if Trump had looked more controlled, the Democrats might not have been to steal enough votes to win.

He DID do everything in the part I bolded...so your entire premise about him is flawed. He cannot make the press cover his description of the virus and its dangers...nor can he force them to write about his Operation Warp Speed and the miraculous vaccine results that came from it. And quite frankly, softening his tone is the last thing I want him to do...I love that he calls idiocy out and that he deconstructs it in a ruthless and charismatic way.
We have the best government that money can buy. Mark Twain

Offline Sled Dog

  • The Ultimate Weapon: Freedom - I Won't
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,138
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #309 on: March 11, 2021, 09:46:04 pm »
The big problem with Trump is that he was never able to soften the way he delivered his message.

That was a feature, not a bug.

Why should he "soften" his message when his enemies are my enemies?   

GW Bush had a soft "compassionate" message.  That's why I never voted for him.

His father had a message about points of light and backstabbing.  He got along famously well with the Rodents.

Bob Dole was so soft on Clinton that he became Viagra's spokes-noodle after he lost the 96 erection.

Then there was McStain the Traitor.  Romney the Traitor.  Paul Ryan the Traitor.  McConnell the Traitor.  John Roberts the Traitor.  Murkowski the Traitor. 

Orrin Escape Hatch was more interested in ministering to the Rapist Draft Dodger than in impeaching a foul beast and getting him out of the White House.

Since "soft" messages don't serve MY interests, since "soft" messages don't serve America's interest, it's time to rip them up and start fighting back, like Trump does.

Quote
I fully support his approach to capitalism, foreign policy and his dislike for the corrupt news media. The trouble is it was all confrontation and not enough reconciliation. I understand that the Russia hoax pushed him into that demeanor, but it was also a trap.

Yes, absolutely.  One should always reconcile with people whose only desire is to see you dead or in chains.   

Great idea, not.

We've had 28 years of "reconciliation" thanks to the Bush-wipes and the losers in Congress.   That era of failed policies is dead and hopefully gone.

Time to fight, and time to fight hard.

That was Trump's biggest lesson to America.   Fight or die.

Quote
If Trump and given a speech in prime time from the Oval Office about the Covet crisis, he would have been much better off than he was with his rambling press conferences. If he had looked at some of the science, and noted that this is a highly contagious and dangerous disease for certain segments of the population, he would have fared better politically. If he had taken more of the “We are all in this together” approach and emphasized his commitment to getting a vaccine ASAP, the Democrats could not have laid a hand on him.

That happy juice works well on some people, I see.

If Trump could have arranged things so that the United States had zero cases of the Kung Flu, the media and the Rodents and the  RINOs still would have found something to complain about.   It's what they are, it's what they do.

Quote
I recognize that there was a lot of cheating in the counting of the votes. My position is that we will never know the true results of the 2020 presidential election. Still if Trump had looked more controlled, the Democrats might not have been to steal enough votes to win.

The true results of the 2020 election is that Trump won in an electoral landslide and much more than 75 million Americans were disenfranchised because the Rodents had to steal this election, just like the stole the House in 2018.

« Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 09:47:42 pm by Sled Dog »
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,597
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #310 on: March 11, 2021, 09:49:07 pm »
Welcome to TBR, @Lincolncollector!  I toldja to hold on to yer butt...
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Right_in_Virginia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 80,286
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #311 on: March 11, 2021, 09:55:57 pm »
The big problem with Trump is that he was never able to soften the way he delivered his message.

A bigger problem @Lincolncollector is so many on the right never paid real attention to the man and were held hostage to legacy media reports.  IOW, so many bought and are still buying their crap.

 

https://rumble.com/embed/v7rl83/?pub=4











Online libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,235
  • Gender: Female
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #312 on: March 11, 2021, 09:59:17 pm »
Rush said it well:

"Conservatism — when articulated clearly and when practiced faithfully and without apology — wins every time." ~ Rush Limbaugh

There is no compromising on conservative principles in order to get votes that IS  one of  the reason why the GOP is in such turmoil.

Bottom line    ---  IF we don't find a way to ensure a fair electoral process and fix the ballot box, we need not worry about who to run in '22, because a Republican will never be seated.  DEMS have a way to steal elections down pat and they WILL seat whomever they want.  That needs to change and Ronna needs to go.                                                                                     
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,235
  • Gender: Female
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #313 on: March 11, 2021, 10:03:43 pm »
The big problem with Trump is that he was never able to soften the way he delivered his message. I fully support his approach to capitalism, foreign policy and his dislike for the corrupt news media. The trouble is it was all confrontation and not enough reconciliation. I understand that the Russia hoax pushed him into that demeanor, but it was also a trap.

If Trump and given a speech in prime time from the Oval Office about the Covet crisis, he would have been much better off than he was with his rambling press conferences. If he had looked at some of the science, and noted that this is a highly contagious and dangerous disease for certain segments of the population, he would have fared better politically. If he had taken more of the “We are all in this together” approach and emphasized his commitment to getting a vaccine ASAP, the Democrats could not have laid a hand on him.

I recognize that there was a lot of cheating in the counting of the votes. My position is that we will never know the true results of the 2020 presidential election. Still if Trump had looked more controlled, the Democrats might not have been to steal enough votes to win.

I was never what you call a staunch Trump supporter, but I have to disagree with you. No one in the history of politics has been able to connect with his audience like Trump has and no one has been able to draw the kinds of crowds that he has.  That has always been his strongest asset. His ability to connect with others is what won him the oval office. 

That ability also drew   75+ million people to vote for him --- the election WAS stolen. I have no doubt. 

 President Trump was the messenger for those people.

 
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Sled Dog

  • The Ultimate Weapon: Freedom - I Won't
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,138
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #314 on: March 11, 2021, 10:04:23 pm »
Here is what too many of you forget. We can't fix anything...we can't advance any conservative principles...we cannot move the nation back towards justice and sanity...we cannot turn the budget around or secure the border....if we lose elections.

Can't do it if we continue to allow RINOs to take office, either.  So we have to be willing to prioritize a permanent ban on RINOs over winning office from Rodents.

Once RINOs are eliminated and harshly punished when caught violating their campaign promises to be American, we can change our focus to exterminating the vile species of Rodent that has ruined this country.

Quote
I think its fair to say that nearly everyone here believes in the advancement of conservatism as our governing philosophy...but some of you think simply being conservative results, automatically, in electoral victory. So let me shock some of you...it doesn't. We have to communicate at a human and common sense level...we have to persuade rather than deliver moral lectures from an ivory lectern on rectitude that lack any sense of empathy, love, or understanding...we cannot hide in our mountain cabins spouting cliche's about our own conservative authenticity while making idiotic proclamations that there's no difference between a Mike Pence and a Kamala Harris....and we can't condemn our own leaders when they don't magically fix all of our budget excesses and balance our budget with their magic wands.

True enough.  We need Trump's fighting skills with Reagan's communication skills.   If we have to choose between the two, pick fighting ability over smoot talk.   We're not at a time when Ex-Lax is our preferred weapon.

Quote
We can KNOW where we want conservatism to take us...fiscally...and yet understand what is politically possible for ANY leader. Doing as some here advocate...for example, instantly passing a balanced budget...would have destroyed conservatism as a political force for a generation. We can be principled without being suicidal morons...in political terms.

Funny.

Conservativism isn't about fiscalism.  It's about morality.

Until the moral foundation is restored, the fiscal situation will remain in chaos.   Only after the nation is restored to political morality can fiscal sanity re-appear.

Maybe that's why your people keep losing.

You don't have the right priorities.

Quote
We DO need to be tactical....we do need to think strategically...we do need to cull RINO's and dingbat NT's like Romney/Bush/Cheney/ and others. We cannot afford to execute a full scale "purging" of the party, nor can we afford to split into 3rd parties and factions. Again, such things can only end in generational defeat.

We NEED to execute a full purging of the GOP.

That's the ONLY way to save it.

The.
Only.
Way.

Allow live RINOs to remain in contact with human beings, and the human beings will become infected and spread the disease.

Quote
We have to talk to people at their level...as in reach out to minorities and women and offer COMPASSIONED

Oh, jeez.  How did that work for Bush Boy?

Quote
and reasoned arguments for why conservatism will make their lives better...we need to talk to millenials and younger voters in a way that DOES NOT sound like "grumpy grandpa bah-humbug" ranting.

Yes.  Talk down to the younger generations, they're too stupid to engage us fogies with facts and figures and reality.  Treat them like idiot children from a very small village and see how far that gets you.

I've talked to high school students and people in their early twenties, and they're not stupid at all.   Tell them the truth about how the Marxists manipulated Kent State to get their desired goal - dead students - and they listen, because I lived through the time.   These young people are as worried about their future as any other generation ever is, and most of them can see the lies.   Our job is to give them the information - which they will check themselves on the internet - and they will make up their own minds.

Or maybe they listen to me more because I really did push a submarine around and didn't follow the high-school/college/career path they're being shoved down today.

But whatever, treat them like adults, don't talk down to them. 

Quote
Quite frankly, the way roamer1 communicates his views...is precisely why so many see conservatism as anachronistic, uncaring, and irrational. And I say that KNOWING that roamer is right on nearly every issues...his positions are correct...but commuicating conservatism as a moral and angry sermon turns people to liberalism. ITs a a dimwitted tactic that feels good and loses elections...and losing elections is precisely how conservatism dies.

Oh, yes.  I definitely much prefer my stile of communicating.   I work hard to be the steps between pastures.

Quote
So quit damn trying to feel good about how f'ing pure you are as a conservative, and start trying to win some people over to our philosophy with reason, compassion and empathy...without all the moral grandstanding, preaching and condescension.

That's what I do.

Quote
That is how we win....and that is what the President was doing before the NT/RINO's undercut him at every turn and put us ALL where we are now.

So...you're arguing to not be like Trump then saying we need to be like Trump....?
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline Sled Dog

  • The Ultimate Weapon: Freedom - I Won't
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,138
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #315 on: March 11, 2021, 10:10:42 pm »
You're right about "plurality" ... I suppose I can change that to "majority" --- a fluid one. 

But my question stands @Hoodat  -- how do we reach some, if not all, of these voting blocs?  Can we change their minds or do we write them off?  If we write them off, how do we win elections?

And, yes, I understand the overcome evil mission.  It's just everyone who reminds me of this ignores telling me how we do this in the political arena. This is as frustrating as being told we must nominate and vote conservative.  Okay, got that.  But, who are our target voters and what are our top three messages?   

You can't reach all the voting blocs.

That never happens.

You need to reach enough voting blocs to win the election, as was done by Trump in 2016 and 2020.

Our target voters in 2022 and 2024?

The victims put out of work by the Rodents and their terroristic approach to destroying the  American worker.

EVERYONE working in the energy sector.
EVERYONE displaced by illegal aliens.
EVERYONE harmed by illegal aliens.
EVERYONE who's going to lose a job to China, and who's lost family due to the Wuhan Chinese Virus.
EVERYONE who's displaced from their gig job by HR-1 and who's been forced into a goonion, too.
EVERYONE who's watched their child's teachers' goonions go on permanent paid vacations.
EVERY GIRL who sees her college sports scholarship go to some boy pretending to be a girl, or who's had a boy pretending to be a girl in her locker room changing.

There are going to be a vast number of newly disgruntled idiots unhappy with their Senile Vote.   Vile creatures like Romney won't be able to cash in on them.  An American emulating Trump's style, can and should.
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline bilo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,340
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #316 on: March 11, 2021, 10:19:49 pm »
A bigger problem @Lincolncollector is so many on the right never paid real attention to the man and were held hostage to legacy media reports.  IOW, so many bought and are still buying their crap.

 

https://rumble.com/embed/v7rl83/?pub=4












Love the photos!
A stranger in a hostile foreign land I used to call home

Offline bilo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,340
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #317 on: March 11, 2021, 10:27:34 pm »
I was never what you call a staunch Trump supporter, but I have to disagree with you. No one in the history of politics has been able to connect with his audience like Trump has and no one has been able to draw the kinds of crowds that he has.  That has always been his strongest asset. His ability to connect with others is what won him the oval office. 

That ability also drew   75+ million people to vote for him --- the election WAS stolen. I have no doubt. 

 President Trump was the messenger for those people.

You are so right! One of the biggest reasons he connected so well with his base was because he was so direct. He called the opposition leaders "crazy", "sick", "liars" and did it to their face.

The biggest cause of turmoil in the Pub party isn't Trump. It's the fascists that are dependent on their corporate sponsors. Trump never had to mute his voice because he didn't need the Chamber of Commerce and multinational corps. Once we purge these Rino's and really expand our focus on working class and middle America we can maintain a majority. If we have honest elections.
A stranger in a hostile foreign land I used to call home

Offline Sled Dog

  • The Ultimate Weapon: Freedom - I Won't
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,138
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #318 on: March 11, 2021, 10:28:23 pm »
Reality is, literally, what we make it. The GOP replaced the Whigs and were a new party. The Whigs went, well, the way of the Whigs. This can happen again if enough people will stop the tired practice of not doing it because "it can't be done". Argue for your limitations, and sure as shit, they're yours.

This ain't the 1850's any more.

Guess who controls access to the state ballots.

You can do it.

That's right.  The "republicans" and the Rodents control state ballot access.   One of the biggest hurdles the Libertarian Party faced before they were taken over by the Rodents was getting their candidates onto the ballot.  It was just strange how their candidates would have the necessary signatures, and suddenly the challenge from the GOP would get half of them tossed out, etc.

The new Republican party of the 1850's didn't have that problem, the Whig Leadership mostly just moved over.

The GOP doesn't have a problem.  The Republican voters need to reform their party.   There's issues of establishing a nationwide network, contacts, funding, etc....all of which don't exist if the GOP voters work hard to take their party back from the grifters.

One way to start is that EVERY Trump voter should cancel their subscription to the National RINO Review, and refuse to read any on-line articles by the traitors.   Another thing to do is for Trump voters to refuse to give money to the RNC and instead give their donations to very specific candidates or to Trump's new PAC.

There's no reason to create a new party when there's a perfectly good old party that simply needs a swift kick in the butt to get going the right way again.

Quote
That's one thing the Communists just do not do. They don't say "We can't", instead they keep chipping away--and that is how mountains wear down and are carried to the sea, one grain at a time. A lot of grains have been moved, significant features of our society and culture and what makes us America have been strategically undermined to the point of catastrophic collapse. Fiscally, educationally, socially, culturally, constitutionally, in virtually every facet of our society there is a flaw serious enough to cause failure, and the Cloward-Piven principle is in full swing with the sheer deluge of enactments and executive orders.

Right.

The Commies didn't try to make the CPUSA the Big Party.  They simply hijacked the Rodent party.

That's what you were trying to say, wasn't it, that there's no reason to start a new party when there's a perfectly fine party organization sitting around waiting to be taken over by someone who will use it correctly, right?

Quote
The GOP is doing what, exactly to fight this?

Stop equating the RINO leadership with the entire party.  If you mean the RINO leadership, say the RINO leadership.  The "GOP" is the 75 MAGA, not the RINO infestation.   

Quote
Those who do speak up are marginalized by either Leftists in the MSM or Social Media (e.g.: Rep Greene, who has been put into the wacko category with supposed statements she didn't make) or the scions of the GOPe or RINOs themselves, while the "sane" voices propose impotent solutions to problems that wouldn't even be implemented if they had the power to do so. Y'all keep being suckers, because what you have been doing the last 50 years has only lost ground, despite the efforts of Reagan and Trump (who was scuttled as much by the GOP as the Left).

One more, five more, voices lent to that outcry won't make a whit of difference. Just keep pushing the same buttons and wait for a different result. We all know the 'wish hand' doesn't fill up first.

Trump wasn't doing what was done in the preceding 100 years.  Trump was actively addressing the lies and the corruption.

And study what effect every third party movement has had on presidential elections, okay?

Quote
Let's get back to the election, the FRAUD, the GRANDEST THEFT of all, and you can explain to me where the GOPe outcry was. Where the strident demands for investigations went. Where the objections to the certification of electoral votes were? Why there is no outcry about the intentionally lax security at the Capitol that day and how the ANTIFAs were all over the news but the DOJ can claim there is "no evidence of their presence". WTF???

The GOP should be on that like white on rice, but all we hear is crickets.

And that is what you want us to support?
Meh.

The Party isn't one to ride the river with, and I ain't about to sign on to that.

Nope, I'm not going to discuss what the RINOs did.

Stop pretending they were serving the interests of the 75 MAGA that rejected the RINOs by electing Trump twice.

You don't want to help the Americans regain control of their country, fine.

But stop pretending running away and sulking is going to fix anything.   Nobody's impressed and nothing gets done without hard work and unpleasantness.  So I'll stick to fixing the GOP, because that's the only thing that can work.
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,977
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #319 on: March 11, 2021, 10:32:11 pm »
Good post. We can dump the RINO's and still attract new Republican voters by sticking to and explaining our principles in language that makes sense to people in their daily lives.

IMHO actually dumping RINOs would be the greatest attractant to the GOP in 100 years but SERIOUSLY doubt it will ever happen because the PTB doesn't want it to happen.

And, the republic is now dead as a post so it doesn't matter anyway.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,717
  • Gender: Male
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #320 on: March 11, 2021, 10:33:44 pm »
The big problem with Trump is that he was never able to soften the way he delivered his message. I fully support his approach to capitalism, foreign policy and his dislike for the corrupt news media. The trouble is it was all confrontation and not enough reconciliation. I understand that the Russia hoax pushed him into that demeanor, but it was also a trap.

If Trump and given a speech in prime time from the Oval Office about the Covet crisis, he would have been much better off than he was with his rambling press conferences. If he had looked at some of the science, and noted that this is a highly contagious and dangerous disease for certain segments of the population, he would have fared better politically. If he had taken more of the “We are all in this together” approach and emphasized his commitment to getting a vaccine ASAP, the Democrats could not have laid a hand on him.

I recognize that there was a lot of cheating in the counting of the votes. My position is that we will never know the true results of the 2020 presidential election. Still if Trump had looked more controlled, the Democrats might not have been to steal enough votes to win.

Trump's style ain't for everyone. But I think we're better off putting blame where it belongs - the lying rat media -because most of what they dinged Trump for were lies.

There are only so many Ronald Reagans. If we're waiting for another one to carry forward the same policies Trump championed then we'll probably be waiting till kingdom come.

On the other hand when a guy comes along who's policies align with our own, who can WIN and is willing to go to the mat fighting for those policies, the rational play is to get behind him rather than constantly running for the tall grass reacting to the lying rat media's narrative.

If we can't do that then we deserve to lose.






« Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 10:38:34 pm by skeeter »

Offline Sled Dog

  • The Ultimate Weapon: Freedom - I Won't
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,138
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #321 on: March 11, 2021, 10:44:46 pm »
Conservatives need to find a way to respect a woman's belief that it's her body her choice. 


But it's not her body and not her choice.

Her choice was made when she decided to ignore modern science and eschew modern protections and got herself knocked up.

Was that an insensitive phrase?

But it isn't about her body.  It's about the baby's body, and the Fifth Amendment is quite clear that no person shall be executed without first having a trial where the accused can confront the witnesses against him and have his guilt determined by a jury of his peers.

Also, it's amazing how the slogan "their body, their choice" is utterly rejected by the Rodents.

There's some bakers in Colorado who said "hey, I don't want my body making cakes for same-sex couple weddings".   The Rodents labeled them bigots.

There are people who didn't want to buy into the MessiahCare scam.   The Rodents didn't care, their bodies were going to be enrolled or they were going to pay hefty taxes.

"their body, their choice" is such a purely libertarian thing that naturally the Rodents utterly reject it's every real application and employed it only when it came to murdering someone else's body who was never going to choose to be murdered.

I use the phrase all the time to reject the Pillars of Socialism, and the Rodents hate me entirely.

The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #322 on: March 11, 2021, 10:49:37 pm »
@sneakypete

That won't happen while you continue to feed the beast.  We are going in the wrong direction.  Bush had it right in 2006 (deficit down to $160 billion), but the GOP bailed.  Today, the deficit is easily 20 times that.

Complexity is simply an excuse offered by those unwilling to act.  Stop funding the opposition.  Stop stealing from those who work hard.  Restore hope for the future.  Nothing complex about that.

@Hoodat

Slogans and other HorseHillary are always simple. Reality is an entirely different thing,though.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Sled Dog

  • The Ultimate Weapon: Freedom - I Won't
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,138
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #323 on: March 11, 2021, 10:51:19 pm »

Is there anyone still surprised that so many Americans think conservatives are judgmental, intrusive, sanctimonious blowhards who should be shunned at all costs, especially at the ballot box?   

Is there anyone who still thinks conservatives on the campaign trail should spend more time on social issues?

Show of hands, please.

Conservatives won the last two president elections.

So, yeah, there's lots of people out there agreeing with the American message that is conservatism.

And as I recall in 2016 there was a proposal to start phasing out the Socialist Security Ponzi Scheme that is on the verge of collapse with a equity-based market approach to retirement investing for new entries into the employment market while keeping the promises made to the geezers currently entrapped in the Ponzi Scheme or about to retire and become dependent on it.

The Rodents, on the other hand, have been trying to make the entirety of the US health system just like the system run by the VA.   Great plans the Rodents have, yay!
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers
« Reply #324 on: March 11, 2021, 10:52:57 pm »
Here is what too many of you forget. We can't fix anything...we can't advance any conservative principles...we cannot move the nation back towards justice and sanity...we cannot turn the budget around or secure the border....if we lose elections.

I think its fair to say that nearly everyone here believes in the advancement of conservatism as our governing philosophy...but some of you think simply being conservative results, automatically, in electoral victory. So let me shock some of you...it doesn't. We have to communicate at a human and common sense level...we have to persuade rather than deliver moral lectures from an ivory lectern on rectitude that lack any sense of empathy, love, or understanding...we cannot hide in our mountain cabins spouting cliche's about our own conservative authenticity while making idiotic proclamations that there's no difference between a Mike Pence and a Kamala Harris....and we can't condemn our own leaders when they don't magically fix all of our budget excesses and balance our budget with their magic wands.

We can KNOW where we want conservatism to take us...fiscally...and yet understand what is politically possible for ANY leader. Doing as some here advocate...for example, instantly passing a balanced budget...would have destroyed conservatism as a political force for a generation. We can be principled without being suicidal morons...in political terms.

We DO need to be tactical....we do need to think strategically...we do need to cull RINO's and dingbat NT's like Romney/Bush/Cheney/ and others. We cannot afford to execute a full scale "purging" of the party, nor can we afford to split into 3rd parties and factions. Again, such things can only end in generational defeat.

We have to talk to people at their level...as in reach out to minorities and women and offer COMPASSIONED and reasoned arguments for why conservatism will make their lives better...we need to talk to millenials and younger voters in a way that DOES NOT sound like "grumpy grandpa bah-humbug" ranting. Quite frankly, the way roamer1 communicates his views...is precisely why so many see conservatism as anachronistic, uncaring, and irrational. And I say that KNOWING that roamer is right on nearly every issues...his positions are correct...but commuicating conservatism as a moral and angry sermon turns people to liberalism. ITs a a dimwitted tactic that feels good and loses elections...and losing elections is precisely how conservatism dies.

So quit damn trying to feel good about how f'ing pure you are as a conservative, and start trying to win some people over to our philosophy with reason, compassion and empathy...without all the moral grandstanding, preaching and condescension.

That is how we win....and that is what the President was doing before the NT/RINO's undercut him at every turn and put us ALL where we are now.

@Mesaclone

Well said!
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!