GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers

[Hoodat]

Let's get back to the election, the FRAUD, the GRANDEST THEFT of all, and you can explain to me where the GOPe outcry was. Where the strident demands for investigations went. Where the objections to the certification of electoral votes were? Why there is no outcry about the intentionally lax security at the Capitol that day and how the ANTIFAs were all over the news but the DOJ can claim there is "no evidence of their presence". WTF???

The GOP should be on that like white on rice, but all we hear is crickets.

And that is what you want us to support?
Meh.

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[Hoodat]

Time to drain the SWAMP!  Take them down!

Mitch's pets:

Rob Portman (Ohio)
Lamar Alexander (Tennessee)
Ben Sasse (Nebraska)
Roy Blunt (Missouri)
Susan Collins (Maine)
Lisa Murkowski (Alaska)
John Cornyn (Texas) John Thune (South Dakota)
Mitt Romney (Utah)
Mike Braun and Todd Young (Indiana)
Tim Scott (South Carolina)
Rick Scott and Marco Rubio (Florida)
Chuck Grassley (Iowa)
Richard Burr (North Carolina)
Pat Toomey (Pennsylvania)
Martha McSally (Arizona)
Jerry Moran and Pat Roberts (Kansas)
Richard Shelby (Alabama).

How refreshing it would be to have a GOP working to take down Senators like John Ossoff, Rafael Warnock, and Gary Peters instead.

[dfwgator]

How refreshing it would be to have a GOP working to take down Senators like John Ossoff, Rafael Warnock, and Gary Peters instead.

One thing at a time.

[Hoodat]

Let the record show you'd advise conservative candidates to tell women what to do with this knees because the shelf life on their virginity will carry them all the way to the marital altar or the funeral pyre, whichever comes first.

What a load of horse manure!  Does the term 'personal responsibility' not mean anything any more?  Actions have consequences.  No one is telling anyone what to do with their knees, only what the effects can be.  But thanks for reciting the non-rational NARAL rhetoric.  We should all learn to recognize the subtlety of the enemy's lies.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

Quote from: roamer_1 on Today at 02:22:16 AM

   
I,for one,have NEVER thought that sex  was transactional unless it was for cash. Normally,it is done because two people find each other attractive,or even just because they happen to be available  to one another in time of sexual need. Which is also why most people married one another. Their only other option was to never marry or  have a family.

What a bleeped up world you live in to consider sex to primarily be a transaction.

I do not, @sneakypete ... At least not anymore. Yah screwed that up for me forevermore way back in the day... A particular conquest was well in my sights, and willing, but somewhere in my drunken stupor Yah spoke to me and simply said: "That's somebody's daughter..." And in an instant I realized I was not merely having fun with a party girl (albeit that was my intention)... I was dishonoring her father and mother... Hell, her whole family.

I am no choirboy, even yet... But sex is no longer transactional... I need some semblance of a relationship before I go there... I have no interest without a commitment. Sometimes that works out... sometimes it don't. Even so, to suggest that sex is not merely transactional in this day and age is to be entirely blind.

Usually there ARE no consequences.  I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that there is,unless you have lived a very shallow,guilt-filled life.

Yes,SOMETIMES there ARE consequences,such as catching VD or an unwanted pregnancy. Which to ME seems to be the primary reason to restrict legal sex to adults. Adults are SUPPOSED to be mature enough and financially capable of dealing with the consequences,including raising a child if that becomes necessary.

There are ALWAYS consequences, some are just more drastic than others. But there is no question that the majority of party sex, and resulting pregnancies are visited on the young. Seldom do folks stay in that scene much past 20 or 30, with most of the 'mistakes' coming before that. And broken homes and single parents are literally rampant.

There is no fixing anything in this country while ignoring that obvious fact. Like I said, loose morals lead to single parents, single parents lead to drug abuse and gangs, and drug abuse and gangs lead to more single parenthood.

No doubt "GAWD" told you that women who have sex and aren't married are all sluts?

Nah... That was Webster's dang dictionary.

Yeah,what could POSSIBLY go wrong there? Other than child abuse,wife abuse,drunken assaults,children running away from unsafe homes,etc,etc,etc?
 

Except it didn't go wrong there. Far, far less than in today's meat market. ALL that you mentioned are way way up compared to pre-'60s, when such things were relatively rare, and 'across the tracks'.
 

Here is a suggestion. How about you and your Gawd pay all the expenses? After all,you are the ones telling people how to live their lives,so why shouldn't YOU be the ones responsible for paying the bills?

Nah. There's no need. That's what you've got Uncle Nanny for.

[sneakypete]

@Right_in_Virginia

 
Our mission is not to compromise with evil.  Our mission is to overcome evil.

@Hoodat

Well stated,but the problem is to get people to agree on what is acceptable,and what is evil. Which is a lot more complex than some people want to accept.

[roamer_1]

What a load of horse manure!  Does the term 'personal responsibility' not mean anything any more?  Actions have consequences.  No one is telling anyone what to do with their knees, only what the effects can be.  But thanks for reciting the non-rational NARAL rhetoric.  We should all learn to recognize the subtlety of the enemy's lies.

That's right... It's just the simple mechanics of the thing

[Hoodat]

Here is a suggestion. How about you and your Gawd pay all the expenses? After all,you are the ones telling people how to live their lives,so why shouldn't YOU be the ones responsible for paying the bills?

The only ones here telling others how to live their lives are the ones who deny me the right to shape my society through the formulation of laws while at the same time demanding money from me (at the point of a gun) for someone else's bad decision.

[Hoodat]

@Hoodat

Well stated,but the problem is to get people to agree on what is acceptable,and what is evil. Which is a lot more complex than some people want to accept.

@sneakypete

That won't happen while you continue to feed the beast.  We are going in the wrong direction.  Bush had it right in 2006 (deficit down to $160 billion), but the GOP bailed.  Today, the deficit is easily 20 times that.

Complexity is simply an excuse offered by those unwilling to act.  Stop funding the opposition.  Stop stealing from those who work hard.  Restore hope for the future.  Nothing complex about that.

[Hoodat]

There are ALWAYS consequences, some are just more drastic than others. But there is no question that the majority of party sex, and resulting pregnancies are visited on the young. Seldom do folks stay in that scene much past 20 or 30, with most of the 'mistakes' coming before that. And broken homes and single parents are literally rampant.

There is no fixing anything in this country while ignoring that obvious fact. Like I said, loose morals lead to single parents, single parents lead to drug abuse and gangs, and drug abuse and gangs lead to more single parenthood.

The rise in single parenthood is the direct result of government intervention.  First, they rewarded mothers who kicked fathers out of the home and thus penalized two-parent families.  Then they pushed abortion as further-down-the-road birth control 'just in case', thus removing the incentive for responsible action at the time.  Yet once an unwed woman found herself pregnant, she discovered that not only would the government cover the cost of her childbirth, she could also get money out of the government for the next 18 years.

From the man's perspective, abortion was a perfect fit (which is why men are abortion's strongest advocates).  They could ejaculate any where they pleased.  And if anything went wrong, it was a woman's duty to kill that 'problem' to save them from any child support payments.

These are examples of societal decisions that the members of a society come together to decide.  Which is why many States outlawed abortion to begin with.  Citizens of those States recognized the far-reaching negative effects when life is devalued.  Some (like Virginia) even recognized the dangers of common law marriage, and absolved the Commonwealth's involvement by outlawing cohabitation.  Yet the rights of the citizenry to mold and shape their society has been usurped by tyrannical courts who have forced their 'morality' down our throats.

The only course of action here is to return the right of self-governance back to the People and restore our Republic back to its original ideals.  If the people of Vermont wish to allow people to marry dogs and horses, then more power to them.  But do not deny my rights as a Georgian to help formulate laws that our own society can agree to.

[Mesaclone]

The only thing that separates you and me is I'm trying to find a way to help conservatives win; while you'd be happy losing as long your principles never take a shower or change clothes.

That's a GREAT quote...is that yours or did you hear it somewhere. Gets right to the heart of the matter. I hope you don't mind if I borrow that phrase in the future!

[Hoodat]

Who was the last Conservative you helped win?  Because I am having a very difficult time finding one.

[Mesaclone]

Here is what too many of you forget. We can't fix anything...we can't advance any conservative principles...we cannot move the nation back towards justice and sanity...we cannot turn the budget around or secure the border....if we lose elections.

I think its fair to say that nearly everyone here believes in the advancement of conservatism as our governing philosophy...but some of you think simply being conservative results, automatically, in electoral victory. So let me shock some of you...it doesn't. We have to communicate at a human and common sense level...we have to persuade rather than deliver moral lectures from an ivory lectern on rectitude that lack any sense of empathy, love, or understanding...we cannot hide in our mountain cabins spouting cliche's about our own conservative authenticity while making idiotic proclamations that there's no difference between a Mike Pence and a Kamala Harris....and we can't condemn our own leaders when they don't magically fix all of our budget excesses and balance our budget with their magic wands.

We can KNOW where we want conservatism to take us...fiscally...and yet understand what is politically possible for ANY leader. Doing as some here advocate...for example, instantly passing a balanced budget...would have destroyed conservatism as a political force for a generation. We can be principled without being suicidal morons...in political terms.

We DO need to be tactical....we do need to think strategically...we do need to cull RINO's and dingbat NT's like Romney/Bush/Cheney/ and others. We cannot afford to execute a full scale "purging" of the party, nor can we afford to split into 3rd parties and factions. Again, such things can only end in generational defeat.

We have to talk to people at their level...as in reach out to minorities and women and offer COMPASSIONED and reasoned arguments for why conservatism will make their lives better...we need to talk to millenials and younger voters in a way that DOES NOT sound like "grumpy grandpa bah-humbug" ranting. Quite frankly, the way roamer1 communicates his views...is precisely why so many see conservatism as anachronistic, uncaring, and irrational. And I say that KNOWING that roamer is right on nearly every issues...his positions are correct...but commuicating conservatism as a moral and angry sermon turns people to liberalism. ITs a a dimwitted tactic that feels good and loses elections...and losing elections is precisely how conservatism dies.

So quit damn trying to feel good about how f'ing pure you are as a conservative, and start trying to win some people over to our philosophy with reason, compassion and empathy...without all the moral grandstanding, preaching and condescension.

That is how we win....and that is what the President was doing before the NT/RINO's undercut him at every turn and put us ALL where we are now.

[txradioguy]

"Conservatism — when articulated clearly and when practiced faithfully and without apology — wins every time." ~ Rush Limbaugh


 

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia

Your "plurality" premises make no sense in regards to binomial options where plurality doesn't exist.  Our mission is not to compromise with evil.  Our mission is to overcome evil.

You're right about "plurality" ... I suppose I can change that to "majority" --- a fluid one. 

But my question stands @Hoodat  -- how do we reach some, if not all, of these voting blocs?  Can we change their minds or do we write them off?  If we write them off, how do we win elections?

And, yes, I understand the overcome evil mission.  It's just everyone who reminds me of this ignores telling me how we do this in the political arena. This is as frustrating as being told we must nominate and vote conservative.  Okay, got that.  But, who are our target voters and what are our top three messages?     

[roamer_1]

The rise in single parenthood is the direct result of government intervention.  First, they rewarded mothers who kicked fathers out of the home and thus penalized two-parent families.  Then they pushed abortion as further-down-the-road birth control 'just in case', thus removing the incentive for responsible action at the time.  Yet once an unwed woman found herself pregnant, she discovered that not only would the government cover the cost of her childbirth, she could also get money out of the government for the next 18 years.

From the man's perspective, abortion was a perfect fit (which is why men are abortion's strongest advocates).  They could ejaculate any where they pleased.  And if anything went wrong, it was a woman's duty to kill that 'problem' to save them from any child support payments.

These are examples of societal decisions that the members of a society come together to decide.  Which is why many States outlawed abortion to begin with.  Citizens of those States recognized the far-reaching negative effects when life is devalued.  Some (like Virginia) even recognized the dangers of common law marriage, and absolved the Commonwealth's involvement by outlawing cohabitation.  Yet the rights of the citizenry to mold and shape their society has been usurped by tyrannical courts who have forced their 'morality' down our throats.

The only course of action here is to return the right of self-governance back to the People and restore our Republic back to its original ideals.  If the people of Vermont wish to allow people to marry dogs and horses, then more power to them.  But do not deny my rights as a Georgian to help formulate laws that our own society can agree to.

To think otherwise is entirely laughable. INDEED it is far worse in this day. All one has to do is go look at statistical data between, say, the '50s and now. OF COURSE it is federally motivated, because the gigantic welfare system and dependency we have today was nearly absent before the drift of social mores. And a good and moral people are very hard to control - They tend to be able to function independently of the system.

And what a cudgel to use (exactly as t is being used here today), to shout down 'unfeeling' conservatives who would take away the income of those poor poor single moms, to cast them out on the street with their poor poor children...

And next thing you know, you can't even say so on a conservative site without people losing their minds.

And of course you are preaching to the choir when you speak to me of federalist distribution. Sure and I don't care what Vermont does either.  But to dictate our morality here in Montana from 3000 miles away, changing the truth of ages, supplanting it with lies... Well that ain't alright.

[Right_in_Virginia]

That's a GREAT quote...is that yours or did you hear it somewhere. Gets right to the heart of the matter. I hope you don't mind if I borrow that phrase in the future!

All mine @Mesaclone      Use it at will.

[roamer_1]

Here is what too many of you forget. We can't fix anything...we can't advance any conservative principles...we cannot move the nation back towards justice and sanity...we cannot turn the budget around or secure the border....if we lose elections.

I think its fair to say that nearly everyone here believes in the advancement of conservatism as our governing philosophy...but some of you think simply being conservative results, automatically, in electoral victory. So let me shock some of you...it doesn't. We have to communicate at a human and common sense level...we have to persuade rather than deliver moral lectures from an ivory lectern on rectitude that lack any sense of empathy, love, or understanding...we cannot hide in our mountain cabins spouting cliche's about our own conservative authenticity while making idiotic proclamations that there's no difference between a Mike Pence and a Kamala Harris....and we can't condemn our own leaders when they don't magically fix all of our budget excesses and balance our budget with their magic wands.

For over thirty YEARS I toed your damn line... And what did it get me? *NOTHING*... Not a SINGLE WIN. And still you do preach on. Bullshit.

We can KNOW where we want conservatism to take us...fiscally...and yet understand what is politically possible for ANY leader. Doing as some here advocate...for example, instantly passing a balanced budget...would have destroyed conservatism as a political force for a generation. We can be principled without being suicidal morons...in political terms.

Yeah riiiight. Just take all the hard stuff off the table and we'll make sure you get a fruitless tax cut.
More bullshit. 

We DO need to be tactical....we do need to think strategically...we do need to cull RINO's and dingbat NT's like Romney/Bush/Cheney/ and others. We cannot afford to execute a full scale "purging" of the party, nor can we afford to split into 3rd parties and factions. Again, such things can only end in generational defeat.

Suuuure you're gonna get rid of the RINOS... You are talking crap. Just like always from the GOP.

Put up or damn well shut up.

We have to talk to people at their level...as in reach out to minorities and women and offer COMPASSIONED and reasoned arguments for why conservatism will make their lives better...we need to talk to millenials and younger voters in a way that DOES NOT sound like "grumpy grandpa bah-humbug" ranting. Quite frankly, the way roamer1 communicates his views...is precisely why so many see conservatism as anachronistic, uncaring, and irrational. And I say that KNOWING that roamer is right on nearly every issues...his positions are correct...but commuicating conservatism as a moral and angry sermon turns people to liberalism. ITs a a dimwitted tactic that feels good and loses elections...and losing elections is precisely how conservatism dies.

No it does not. Unless that's how they lean ANYWAY. 

So shut the hell up about morals. Shut the hell up about libertarianism. shut the hell up about conservatism. How the hell is your message any damn different than the RINO GOP?

Same damn song, second verse. Pure bullshit. Do your damn jobs or get the hell out of the way.

So quit damn trying to feel good about how f'ing pure you are as a conservative, and start trying to win some people over to our philosophy with reason, compassion and empathy...without all the moral grandstanding, preaching and condescension.

Ooh look! Surely couldn't preach the feckless RINO line without a poke at purity... That's exactly what we all need - less purity. Be like Democrats and then we can really do something! 

That is how we win....and that is what the President was doing before the NT/RINO's undercut him at every turn and put us ALL where we are now.

He did NOTHING. you got NOTHING. THAT'S what he was doing.

[Mesaclone]

"Conservatism — when articulated clearly and when practiced faithfully and without apology — wins every time." ~ Rush Limbaugh


 

My thanks to Rush, as that was my point entirely!

[Right_in_Virginia]

What a load of horse manure!  Does the term 'personal responsibility' not mean anything any more? 

Of course it does @Hoodat   I'm asking you where the government fits into it.  So, please, use "personal responsibility" in a political ad.  Maybe then together we can assess how many voters it will cost us.

Conservatives really need to remember  -- as righteous as our principles may be  -- we stand for smaller government, not a broad judgmental, intrusive one substituting for a parent. 

[DCPatriot]

Let's get back to the election, the FRAUD, the GRANDEST THEFT of all, and you can explain to me where the GOPe outcry was. Where the strident demands for investigations went. Where the objections to the certification of electoral votes were? Why there is no outcry about the intentionally lax security at the Capitol that day and how the ANTIFAs were all over the news but the DOJ can claim there is "no evidence of their presence". WTF???

The GOP should be on that like white on rice, but all we hear is crickets.

And that is what you want us to support?

Meh.

Excellent summation, @Smokin Joe   

Only thing I'd change is "Meh" ...to GFY!!  (as a general statement, not a suggestion to forum member to who you replied) 

[roamer_1]

Conservatives really need to remember  -- as righteous as our principles may be  -- we stand for smaller government, not a broad judgmental, intrusive one substituting for a parent.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh but that's rich! Y'all were just the ones calling me a meanie for taking AWAY Uncle Nanny... Who is that substitute parent - which you are fighting to KEEP.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Here is what too many of you forget. We can't fix anything...we can't advance any conservative principles...we cannot move the nation back towards justice and sanity...we cannot turn the budget around or secure the border....if we lose elections.

I think its fair to say that nearly everyone here believes in the advancement of conservatism as our governing philosophy...but some of you think simply being conservative results, automatically, in electoral victory. So let me shock some of you...it doesn't. We have to communicate at a human and common sense level...we have to persuade rather than deliver moral lectures from an ivory lectern on rectitude that lack any sense of empathy, love, or understanding...we cannot hide in our mountain cabins spouting cliche's about our own conservative authenticity while making idiotic proclamations that there's no difference between a Mike Pence and a Kamala Harris....and we can't condemn our own leaders when they don't magically fix all of our budget excesses and balance our budget with their magic wands.

We can KNOW where we want conservatism to take us...fiscally...and yet understand what is politically possible for ANY leader. Doing as some here advocate...for example, instantly passing a balanced budget...would have destroyed conservatism as a political force for a generation. We can be principled without being suicidal morons...in political terms.

We DO need to be tactical....we do need to think strategically...we do need to cull RINO's and dingbat NT's like Romney/Bush/Cheney/ and others. We cannot afford to execute a full scale "purging" of the party, nor can we afford to split into 3rd parties and factions. Again, such things can only end in generational defeat.

We have to talk to people at their level...as in reach out to minorities and women and offer COMPASSIONED and reasoned arguments for why conservatism will make their lives better...we need to talk to millenials and younger voters in a way that DOES NOT sound like "grumpy grandpa bah-humbug" ranting. Quite frankly, the way roamer1 communicates his views...is precisely why so many see conservatism as anachronistic, uncaring, and irrational. And I say that KNOWING that roamer is right on nearly every issues...his positions are correct...but commuicating conservatism as a moral and angry sermon turns people to liberalism. ITs a a dimwitted tactic that feels good and loses elections...and losing elections is precisely how conservatism dies.

So quit damn trying to feel good about how f'ing pure you are as a conservative, and start trying to win some people over to our philosophy with reason, compassion and empathy...without all the moral grandstanding, preaching and condescension.

That is how we win....and that is what the President was doing before the NT/RINO's undercut him at every turn and put us ALL where we are now.

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[Right_in_Virginia]

My thanks to Rush, as that was my point entirely!

For years I've wished Rush had added the words "helpful", "relevant".  Still do.

(May he rest in peace)

[Mesaclone]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh but that's rich! Y'all were just the ones calling me a meanie for taking AWAY Uncle Nanny... Who is that substitute parent - which you are fighting to KEEP.

You need to hone your reading skills...because no one here is calling for "nanny" anything. There's a difference between expecting people to be responsible and accountable for their actions....which is the genuinely conservative stance....and preaching down to them like some sort of condescending Jimmy Swaggart A-hole...which seems to be the common approach of the NT group around here.