LET THEM EAT SOUP: Commerce Secretary Ross Holds Up Campbell's Soup Can To Defend Steel Tariffs

[Formerly Once-Ler]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27775/let-them-eat-soup-commerce-secretary-ross-holds-hank-berrien

On Friday, Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, who is a billionaire, appeared on CNBC’s Squawk on the Street to defend steel and aluminum tariffs he has promoted. While he was interviewed, he displayed his utter ignorance of political optics, holding up a can of Campbell's soup to illustrate what he called the "broad," but "trivial” consequences of implementing price tariffs.


Ross began, "This is not the first time we’ve put tariffs on steel; we have tariffs on many forms of steel. The reason we've had to go this route is that the conventional trade methods don't solve the problem of systemic global overcapacity and global dumping. You put a tariff on it coming from one country, they try to ship it through another one. So it has to be broad, it has to be global in its reach in order to solve the fundamental problem.”

Holding up the can, Ross opined, "This is a can of Campbell’s soup. In a can of Campbell's Soup, there are about 2.6 pennies worth of steel. So if that goes up by 25%, that's about six-tenths of 1 cent on the price of a can of Campbell's Soup. I just bought this can today at a 7-Eleven down here, and the price was $1.99. So who in the world is going to be too bothered is going to be bothered by six-tenths of a cent?"

After holding up a can of Coke and going through a similar procedure, Ross concluded, “All this hysteria is a lot to do about nothing.”

more at link.

Billionaire Secretary Ross says we are arguing over crumbs.

[edpc]

Families buy more than one can of something per shopping trip and make a lot of those trips in a year, math whiz.  He's also not accounting for all the other things they'll buy made from more steel and aluminum.  There are plenty of others that say this isn't as inconsequential as he believes.

“If you want to rein in the third-longest economic expansion since the end of WWII, crimp profits at a time when stock market valuations have been called into question by rising interest rates, force consumers to withstand price increases and put millions of metals-reliant and other jobs at risk, the president’s stated intention of placing costly tarriffs on imported steel and aluminum is an effective way to start,” Bankrate economist Mark Hamrick said.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/economists-pan-trump-trade-policy-terrible-risks-ending-economic-expansion-162159427.html

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Campbell Soup, Fox Business host question Ross’s soup can defense of Trump tariffs

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/376479-campbell-soup-fox-business-host-question-ross-soup-can-defense-of-trump

But a Campbell spokesperson said the tariffs "will result in higher prices" and impact company costs.

"Any new broad-based tariffs on imported tin plate steel — an insufficient amount of which is produced in the U.S. — will result in higher prices on one of the safest and more affordable parts of the food supply," Campbell told CNBC.

Ross also appeared on Fox Business to defend the president's decision, using the same Campbell Soup defense. There, anchor Stuart Varney used increased steel costs on building the Keystone Pipeline to press Ross on the tariffs.

"Your tariffs, the president’s tariffs, add $300 million to it. That’s huge," Varney said.

"Well, it is huge, but it’s a huge project. It’s a multibillion-dollar project," Ross replied. "And what they did, they bought a lot of their steel from India prior to the president putting in the ‘Buy America, build America’ thing, so what they were doing was profiteering off dumped steel."

"That’s something we’re not going to tolerate because it costs American jobs. Everybody talks about the price, but what about the jobs?” Ross asked.

"The other potential criticism is that you face retaliation from other countries," Varney noted. "And this morning, we had Sweden’s Electrolux, the biggest makers of appliances in Europe, they pulled or delayed a $250 million investment in Tennessee in the United States because of those steel tariffs. They say it would simply raise the cost of steel in America. They’ve delayed the project. Your answer?”

“Well, any time you get rid of dumped product, there will be a price increase," Ross explained. "The question is what does it amount to? Take a car. There’s about one ton of steel in a car, and if that goes up 25 percent from a 700-odd dollar base, that’s under a couple of hundred dollars, that’s around five-tenths of 1 percent of the price of a car. That’s no big deal."

[RoosGirl]

I can't imagine how people still believe that the Republicans only care about rich people. 

[Fantom]

Nice try at invoking Pelosers crumb comment. When I am charged $1000.00 a can get back to me.

It was amusing watching Marie Bartiloma(SP?), Fox Bussiness, kvetching that the aluminum duties would make people quite drinking pop and beer... oh she bemoaned... such a burden. LOL, it amounts to less than $0.01 per sixpack...ARMAGEDDON.. world ending the nutters say.


 

[WingNot]

I can't imagine how people still believe that the Republicans only care about rich people.

You are about as useful as a windshield wiper on a goat's ass.

[Fantom]

You are about as useful as a windshield wiper on a goat's ass.

Actually, that would be pretty useful. Not having to spread the manure manually.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Nice try at invoking Pelosers crumb comment. When I am charged $1000.00 a can get back to me.

It was amusing watching Marie Bartiloma(SP?), Fox Bussiness, kvetching that the aluminum duties would make people quite drinking pop and beer... oh she bemoaned... such a burden. LOL, it amounts to less than $0.01 per sixpack...ARMAGEDDON.. world ending the nutters say.

Every can of beer will cost more you maniac.  Why don't you understand?

[WingNot]

Every can of beer will cost more you maniac.  Why don't you understand?

You are such a smart-ass I bet you could sit on a carton of ice cream and tell what flavor it is.

[RoosGirl]

You are about as useful as a windshield wiper on a goat's ass.

At least in your scenario I'm the windshield wiper.  Care to explain to us what it's like to be the goat's ass?

[Fantom]

Every can of beer will cost more you maniac.  Why don't you understand?

Guess I am just insane in the membrane. 

Yes, every can of beer may cost more if such costs is passed thru. On a sixpack... that would be $0.01... Armageddon says the Peloser class.

On a average car.... $300.00 increase... where is my fainting couch? 

[WingNot]

At least in your scenario I'm the windshield wiper.  Care to explain to us what it's like to be the goat's ass?

I used to think that you were a big pain in the neck. Now I have a much lower opinion of you.

[RoosGirl]

Guess I am just insane in the membrane. 

Yes, every can of beer may cost more if such costs is passed thru. On a sixpack... that would be $0.01... Armageddon says the Peloser class.

On a average car.... $300.00 increase... where is my fainting couch? 

I'm not sure the bottom line numbers matter so much as the appearance of this, plus 25 cent per gallon gas tax, etc. and rich, old men appearing unsympathetic when explaining the bottom line.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Guess I am just insane in the membrane. 

Yes, every can of beer may cost more if such costs is passed thru. On a sixpack... that would be $0.01... Armageddon says the Peloser class.

On a average car.... $300.00 increase... where is my fainting couch? 

When you put it that way it doesn't sound nearly as scary to me as...

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

When a country Taxes our products coming in at, say, 50%, and we Tax the same product coming into our country at ZERO, not fair or smart. We will soon be starting RECIPROCAL TAXES so that we will charge the same thing as they charge us. $800 Billion Trade Deficit-have no choice!
5:57 AM - 2 Mar 2018

and "Trade wars are good, and easy to win."

Maybe I am just over reacting.

https://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/doomed-repeat-it-long-history-americas-protectionist-failures

[RoosGirl]

I used to think that you were a big pain in the neck. Now I have a much lower opinion of you.

Should the opinion of a goat's ass matter to me?
Come on, you can do better than that.  Between this and the Electrolux thing I'll never be able to afford a new ride. 

[Fantom]

I'm not sure the bottom line numbers matter so much as the appearance of this, plus 25 cent per gallon gas tax, etc. and rich, old men appearing unsympathetic when explaining the bottom line.

Oh, I agree the left and their media machine will orchestrate, along with many on our side... the illusion that this is "DEVASTATING'.

Of course they tried that on tax cuts too......

As for the $0.25 proposed fuel tax. I do prefer use based taxation. So I am good with that. Having said such, the tax needs to go to the use it was intended. First quit building bicycle lanes/paths with the fuel tax... likewise people who fly can pay for the airports..ACELA..yada yada.

Then , if more is needed to build/rebuild/maintain roads and bridges. Start with a $0.05 increase. Do not shock the system with a massive front loaded use tax.

[edpc]

Guess I am just insane in the membrane.

Yes, every can of beer may cost more if such costs is passed thru. On a sixpack... that would be $0.01... Armageddon says the Peloser class.

On a average car.... $300.00 increase... where is my fainting couch?

Some of us took a real beating in the last economic downturn and aren't thrilled about the prospect of someone potentially throwing a wrench in the works when things are improving.

These things don't end with higher prices on cans.  Other nations will take measures, which leads to further measures by us, and so on.

[Fantom]

Some of us took a real beating in the last economic downturn and aren't thrilled about the prospect of someone potentially throwing a wrench in the works when things are improving.

These things don't end with higher prices on cans.  Other nations will take measures, which leads to further measures by us, and so on.

Yes, I survived the obama depression too.

Between retirements, and the competitors obama put out of business. Life has actually been rather swell these last three years. Now if Trump will get rid of the pinche muchados.....

I understand that other nations will try.... but what are they really gonna do...say they don't want the extra hundreds of billions we pour into their economies? Are they going to cut off the food we grow..let their people starve? We hold all the cards my friend.

I worry 'Bout Trump on a lot of things.... understanding international trade is not one of 'Em.

[edpc]

Yes, I survived the obama depression too.

Between retirements, and the competitors obama put out of business. Life has actually been rather swell these last three years. Now if Trump will get rid of the pinche muchados.....

I understand that other nations will try.... but what are they really gonna do...say they don't want the extra hundreds of billions we pour into their economies? Are they going to cut off the food we grow..let their people starve? We hold all the cards my friend.

I worry 'Bout Trump on a lot of things.... understanding international trade is not one of 'Em.

The possibility of this scenario was covered during the transition, as the article below shows. One of the things China holds over our heads is tech manufacturing and access to rare earth elements to make them.  That can have an effect on consumer goods and defense.  They also have expressed willingness to retaliate by restricting imports of meat and grain.

For Americans, Trump's Tariffs On Imports Could Be Costly

https://www.agweb.com/mobile/article/for-americans-trumps-tariffs-on-imports-could-be-costly-apnews/

[Fantom]

When you put it that way it doesn't sound nearly as scary to me as...and "Trade wars are good, and easy to win."

Maybe I am just over reacting.

https://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/doomed-repeat-it-long-history-americas-protectionist-failures

Let me first preface that I am not a Logician, having dealt with a few over the decades has lent me an understanding
of their discipline. They would consider your fallacy in logic hear as ..."Appeal to Authority".  Cato is a libertarian thinktank, no problem, Heritage the conservative one has articles backing up this one. As well as the preeminent site for the Austrian school of economic thought which is closest to mine. https://mises.org/library/tariff-idea

Then of course, we can reference Wealth of Nations, Adam Smith. Which carries a more modest appraisal of tariffs, and the fact that tariffs are in the Constitution.

And finally https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/tariff-act-1789. Seems such august personages as  George Washington and other Founders, had no problem with tariffs.

See we can both use an appeal to authority fallacy.

Or we can use our minds.

Most of the Austrian derived distaste of tariffs is brought forth from using such to protect a native product from foreign competition. That the cheapest is always the best.

There are , of course several mitigating circumstances , at least in my book(note, no appeal to authority fallacy). One would be national security, there is a reason we wished to be energy independent. Likewise it is foolish to be dependent on foreign powers... particularly likely military adversaries ... for any strategic material/capability to manufacture.

I think reasoned men can agree on that one.

A second point is the use of tariffs to stop a ... well, lets say an "abuse of State".  Would you let a foreign power engage in flooding your markets with subsidized goods? Whether people or product. In doing so make you a vassal to them?

I would hope reasoned men would reject that as well.

[Fantom]

The possibility of this scenario was covered during the transition, as the article below shows. One of the things China holds over our heads is tech manufacturing and access to rare earth elements to make them.  That can have an effect on consumer goods and defense.  They also have expressed willingness to retaliate by restricting imports of meat and grain.

For Americans, Trump's Tariffs On Imports Could Be Costly

https://www.agweb.com/mobile/article/for-americans-trumps-tariffs-on-imports-could-be-costly-apnews/

We have plenty of rare earth... just enviro nutzis and China dumping keep us from accessing them.  More the reason to put on duties. We should not be held at gunpoint of a foreign State... particularly an enemy State.

We decided to be energy idependent after what OPEC did to us. Are we to allow Chinna a even greater hold on our throat/economy?

As for another State wanting to starve their people by restricting our food.  Yeah, that will work out well for them. We acn mine and manufacture whatever we need.. arable land and food however.

Not to mention every other nation risking the lose of hundreds of billions we pour into their economies in trade deficits... we are building the Chinese communist armada/military, something we did not do for the Soviet Empire. Not wise in my book.  Certainly not worth cheap t-shirts.

We hold the cards my friend.

[ArneFufkin]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27775/let-them-eat-soup-commerce-secretary-ross-holds-hank-berrien

On Friday, Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, who is a billionaire, appeared on CNBC’s Squawk on the Street to defend steel and aluminum tariffs he has promoted. While he was interviewed, he displayed his utter ignorance of political optics, holding up a can of Campbell's soup to illustrate what he called the "broad," but "trivial” consequences of implementing price tariffs.


Ross began, "This is not the first time we’ve put tariffs on steel; we have tariffs on many forms of steel. The reason we've had to go this route is that the conventional trade methods don't solve the problem of systemic global overcapacity and global dumping. You put a tariff on it coming from one country, they try to ship it through another one. So it has to be broad, it has to be global in its reach in order to solve the fundamental problem.”

Holding up the can, Ross opined, "This is a can of Campbell’s soup. In a can of Campbell's Soup, there are about 2.6 pennies worth of steel. So if that goes up by 25%, that's about six-tenths of 1 cent on the price of a can of Campbell's Soup. I just bought this can today at a 7-Eleven down here, and the price was $1.99. So who in the world is going to be too bothered is going to be bothered by six-tenths of a cent?"

After holding up a can of Coke and going through a similar procedure, Ross concluded, “All this hysteria is a lot to do about nothing.”

more at link.

Billionaire Secretary Ross says we are arguing over crumbs.

I'm not sure you get how Trump operates.   

He introduced tariffs - which aren't very onerous to be honest - in advance of important negotiations involving the NAFTA partnership later this month.

He's pro-actively flexing American muscle against the Canadians - and their feckless dandy PM - in particular. 

Trump likes to negotiate from strength. 

[Right_in_Virginia]

I'm not sure you get how Trump operates.   

He introduced tariffs - which aren't very onerous to be honest - in advance of important negotiations involving the NAFTA partnership later this month.

He's pro-actively flexing American muscle against the Canadians - and their feckless dandy PM - in particular.  ...

By George I think you've got it @ArneFufkin   ^-^  And everyone else runs around like chickens with their heads cut off.

[INVAR]

Trump likes to negotiate from strength.

Reed Smoot and Willis Hawley said the exact same thing.

It took a world war to extricate us from what they nearly single-handedly achieved.

As will Trump most likely.

[WingNot]

Reed Smoot and Willis Hawley

   d'oh