LET THEM EAT SOUP: Commerce Secretary Ross Holds Up Campbell's Soup Can To Defend Steel Tariffs

[Fantom]

Smoot -Halley is of course the thing pointed to by some as bad. Maybe it was, the USA was a net exporter then was it not, as opposed to today a net importer.   http://cafehayek.com/2006/12/if_trade_surplu.html  Maybe that does make a differance.

Likewise Smoot-Halley was in 1930... what really prolonged even made the depression was a POS named FDR. Like another marxist(obama) FDR's policies made the depression(probably made a depression..instead of a recession) what it was.... necessitating a World War to pull out of.

Oh, and tariffs... from ST Reagan... a timely read from CATO https://object.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa107.pdf


Executive Summary

When President Reagan imposed a 100 percent tariff on selected Japanese electronics in 1987, he and the press gave the impression that this was an act of desperation. Pictured was a long-forbearing president whose patience was exhausted by the recalcitrant and conniving Japanese. After trying for years to elicit some fairness out of them, went the story, the usually good-natured president had finally had enough.

When newspapers and television networks announced the tariffs, the media reminded the public that such restraints were imposed by a staunch free trader. The less-than-subtle message was that if "Free Trader" Ronald Reagan thought the tariff necessary, then Japan surely deserved it. After more than seven years in office, Ronald Reagan is still widely regarded as a devoted free trader. A typical reference is that of Mark Shields, a Washington Post columnist, to Reagan's "blind devotion to the doctrine of free trade."(1)

If President Reagan has a devotion to free trade, it surely must be blind, because he has been off the mark most of the time. Only short memories and a refusal to believe one's own eyes would account for the view that President Reagan is a free trader. Calling oneself a free trader is not the same thing as being a free trader. Nor does a free- trade position mean that the president, but not Congress, should have the power to impose trade sanctions. Instead, a president deserves the title of free trader only if his efforts demonstrate an attempt to remove trade barriers at home and prevent the imposition of new ones.

By this standard, the Reagan administration has failed to promote free trade. Ronald Reagan by his actions has become the most protectionist president since Herbert Hoover, the heavyweight champion of protectionists.


@Once-Ler

This is what the Logicians call "Poisoning the Well"... It too is Cato, and I think all here revere The Ronald. 



 

[ArneFufkin]

By George I think you've got it @ArneFufkin   ^-^  And everyone else runs around like chickens with their heads cut off.

RiV, the usual suspects are all agog at Putin's press release of his ... crappy animation ... of some new ICBM that is undetectable by our military.

Meanwhile, in the real world, it was actually a save-political-face reaction to THIS:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5386503/More-640-Russian-mercenary-soldiers-killed-Syria.html

Nobody "effs" with President Donald J. Trump.   

I hate tariffs and trade wars in general, but Trump is using this as a way to cowtow the Canadians into finally trading fairly on our dairy and lumber issues.

Putin was forced to release that shitty animation of some "undetectable missile" because around 300 of his imbedded ... "mercenaries"* ... in Syria were slaughtered by our world class USAF experts and our global command and control. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5386503/More-640-Russian-mercenary-soldiers-killed-Syria.html

*AKA Russian Army hiding from U.N. scrutiny.

[ArneFufkin]

I used to think that you were a big pain in the neck. Now I have a much lower opinion of you.

Your future's so bright, you have to wear shades.

Thanks for your usual insights.

[LMAO]

Reed Smoot and Willis Hawley said the exact same thing.

It took a world war to extricate us from what they nearly single-handedly achieved.

As will Trump most likely.

The Supreme Court also declared parts of the New Deal unconstitutional in the late 1930's. That, and the fact that FDR's desire to pack the courts caused him to lose some  political clout to do anymore "fixing" of the economy gave the economy a chance to recover

@INVAR

[INVAR]

The Supreme Court also declared parts of the New Deal unconstitutional in the late 1930's. That, and the fact that FDR's desire to pack the courts caused him to lose some  political clout to do anymore "fixing" of the economy gave the economy a chance to recover

My point was to counter the statement that imposing these tariffs is flexing our muscles and giving us a negotiating position of strength by igniting a trade war, which it appears Trump has successfully achieved.

It does nothing of the sort when the natural consequences play out and Americans find their tax cut irrelevant when the stuff they want or need to buy is punitively expensive.  And that is before Trump's federal gas tax is imposed.

Not to mention steel and aluminum production here stateside - is not going to happen very economically given the major restrictions on it due to the Environazis.  We cannot produce metals affordably, and everything that uses them is going to skyrocket in cost to the consumer.

[aligncare]

I'm not sure you get how Trump operates.   

He introduced tariffs - which aren't very onerous to be honest - in advance of important negotiations involving the NAFTA partnership later this month.

He's pro-actively flexing American muscle against the Canadians - and their feckless dandy PM - in particular. 

Trump likes to negotiate from strength.

Save your breath, @ArneFufkin. People wanted another politician for president and instead they got Trump. And now they’ve lost their freaking minds because Trump doesn’t act like like every other politician. They just don’t get it. Career politicians are the problem, not the solution. Some of us have awakened to that fact.

[edpc]

Save your breath, @ArneFufkin. People wanted another politician for president and instead they got Trump. And now they’ve lost their freaking minds because Trump doesn’t act like like every other politician. They just don’t get it. Career politicians are the problem, not the solution. Some of us have awakened to that fact.

They are the problem.  Yet, at the January meeting at Camp David, he loudly declared he was done with insurgent candidates.  It seems he’s willing to be a politician when it is convenient, despite the fact those same people often work against him.  The fact is, he’s for whatever makes him look good and puts him at the center of attention at any given moment, rather than being for the average American.

[jpsb]

Every can of beer will cost more you maniac.  Why don't you understand?

@edpc @Once-Ler

It is rather important that the USA maintain an ability to make steel. A lot of steel goes into building
tanks, aircraft carriers and heavy equipment. Or would you rather we just buy EVERYTHING from
China?

[jpsb]

Reed Smoot and Willis Hawley said the exact same thing.

It took a world war to extricate us from what they nearly single-handedly achieved.

As will Trump most likely.

That Smoot and Hawley thing has been debunked many times. Blaming the great depression on
Smoot and Hawley is a Marxist lie.

[edpc]

@edpc @Once-Ler

It is rather important that the USA maintain an ability to make steel. A lot of steel goes into building
tanks, aircraft carriers and heavy equipment. Or would you rather we just buy EVERYTHING from
China?

 We get very little of our steel from China.  Next question.

[jpsb]

 We get very little of our steel from China.  Next question.

So you're fine not making steel here, not being able to built armor for ships and tanks here. Cause
you might have to spent a little more on a can of soup? Some patriot you are, back in the late
1800's and earlier 1900's folks like you would have been tarred, feathered and run out of town.

"If we buy the rail from England, we will have the rail and England will have our money. But if we
build the rail here we will have the rail and we will have the money too." Just as true today as it
was in the 1860's.

[RoosGirl]

So you're fine not making steel here, not being able to built armor for ships and tanks here. Cause
you might have to spent a little more on a can of soup? Some patriot you are, back in the late
1800's and earlier 1900's folks like you would have been tarred, feathered and run out of town.

"If we buy the rail from England, we will have the rail and England will have our money. But if we
build the rail here we will have the rail and we will have the money too." Just as true today as it
was in the 1860's.

He said we get very little of our steel from China and he's right.  It's not even one of the top 10 importers to the US.

[edpc]

He said we get very little of our steel from China and he's right.  It's not even one of the top 10 importers to the US.

Well, I did ask him/her for the next question.  I just didn’t realize it would be a ‘when did you stop beating your wife’ type one.  We do make steel here.  The output has been generally consistent for a decade, with the exception of 2009, when the economy started the downturn.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/209343/steel-production-in-the-us/

If we needed to produce more domestic steel for defense, we could.  We also produce more than enough to cover that demand now, but would logically explore other options for commercial use, because that makes good business sense.  Besides, a lot of materials today are composites and alloys. Those require special supplies of raw materials that may not be readily available here, like REEs.

Since you’re an engineer, you could probably explain that to the forum better than I can.

[truth_seeker]

[goodwithagun]

I'm not sure the bottom line numbers matter so much as the appearance of this, plus 25 cent per gallon gas tax, etc. and rich, old men appearing unsympathetic when explaining the bottom line.

Don’t forget the trillion or so for “infrastructure.” Gosh, I can just feel my Louis Vuitton getting heavier. It’s going to be difficult lifting it into my AMG.

[jpsb]

He said we get very little of our steel from China and he's right.  It's not even one of the top 10 importers to the US.

China routes through other countries. But so what if it is Vietnam or S. Korea it is still vital
nation resource that is imported and it makes us depend upon a foreign power for our ability
to defend ourselves. I'd rather spend a little more then be dependent on foreigners for our
defense.

[RoosGirl]

Well, I did ask him/her for the next question.  I just didn’t realize it would be a ‘when did you stop beating your wife’ type one.  We do make steel here.  The output has been generally consistent for a decade, with the exception of 2009, when the economy started the downturn.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/209343/steel-production-in-the-us/

If we needed to produce more domestic steel for defense, we could.  We also produce more than enough to cover that demand now, but would logically explore other options for commercial use, because that makes good business sense.  Besides, a lot of materials today are composites and alloys. Those require special supplies of raw materials that may not be readily available here, like REEs.

Since you’re an engineer, you could probably explain that to the forum better than I can.

I'm a civil engineer. I can explain rainfall data, how to provide water quality treatment in a pond and how to size water, sewer and storm pipes.  I don't know shit about metal composites or rare earth elements.  I think you did a fine job.

There's a lot of good info here that's fairly current about how much steel is produced in the US (by US and foreign companies) and how much we import and from where.

United States Steel Imports Report Q3 2017 - International Trade ...
https://www.trade.gov/steel/countries/pdfs/imports-us.pdf

[edpc]

I can explain rainfall data, how to provide water quality treatment in a pond and how to size water, sewer and storm pipes.  I don't know shit about metal composites or rare earth elements.

Don’t sell yourself short, Roos.  Apparently, you do know shit.  At the very least, how it rolls.   

[RoosGirl]

Don’t sell yourself short, Roos.  Apparently, you do know shit.   

Well, I guess you're right.  We also commonly use ductile iron pipe for sewer force mains, so I guess I know about shit and iron/steel composite.

[Frank Cannon]

I'm a civil engineer. I can explain rainfall data, how to provide water quality treatment in a pond and how to size water, sewer and storm pipes.  I don't know shit about metal composites or rare earth elements.  I think you did a fine job.

Well I'm a defrocked minister and a part time gigalo, but even I know he didn't do a fine job.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Save your breath, @ArneFufkin. People wanted another politician for president and instead they got Trump. And now they’ve lost their freaking minds because Trump doesn’t act like like every other politician. They just don’t get it. Career politicians are the problem, not the solution. Some of us have awakened to that fact.

QFT

[Right_in_Virginia]

RiV, the usual suspects are all agog at Putin's press release of his ... crappy animation ... of some new ICBM that is undetectable by our military.

Meanwhile, in the real world, it was actually a save-political-face reaction to THIS:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5386503/More-640-Russian-mercenary-soldiers-killed-Syria.html

Nobody "effs" with President Donald J. Trump.   

I hate tariffs and trade wars in general, but Trump is using this as a way to cowtow the Canadians into finally trading fairly on our dairy and lumber issues.

Putin was forced to release that shitty animation of some "undetectable missile" because around 300 of his imbedded ... "mercenaries"* ... in Syria were slaughtered by our world class USAF experts and our global command and control. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5386503/More-640-Russian-mercenary-soldiers-killed-Syria.html

*AKA Russian Army hiding from U.N. scrutiny.   

Thanks for the link @ArneFufkin I hadn't seen this.

I posted this this morning .... more proof that Putin's not quite as strong as our media says he is 

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,306420.0.html

[Right_in_Virginia]

[INVAR]

Trump: making himself a hero to Unions.

And of course we know what Unions support and whom they vote for.

[edpc]

It is what he does, not what he says – right? What was he doing as a builder when he purchased raw materials?

https://www.cwa-union.org/news/donald-trump-uses-foreign-steel-in-his-buildings

He also used foreign sources for his seasonal workers at Mar-a-Lago, contractors in his construction projects, and producers of his apparel.  At least he used domestically produced 3M tape to secure his crappy ties.