LET THEM EAT SOUP: Commerce Secretary Ross Holds Up Campbell's Soup Can To Defend Steel Tariffs

[Chosen Daughter]

Families buy more than one can of something per shopping trip and make a lot of those trips in a year, math whiz.  He's also not accounting for all the other things they'll buy made from more steel and aluminum.  There are plenty of others that say this isn't as inconsequential as he believes.

“If you want to rein in the third-longest economic expansion since the end of WWII, crimp profits at a time when stock market valuations have been called into question by rising interest rates, force consumers to withstand price increases and put millions of metals-reliant and other jobs at risk, the president’s stated intention of placing costly tarriffs on imported steel and aluminum is an effective way to start,” Bankrate economist Mark Hamrick said.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/economists-pan-trump-trade-policy-terrible-risks-ending-economic-expansion-162159427.html

 

Both of me and my husbands jobs rely on metals.  Our products are all made of metal.

[edpc]

 

Both of me and my husbands jobs rely on metals.  Our products are all made of metal.

Well, in your area, he certainly gave a swift kick in the groin to Boeing. The folks over at Airbus will be ecstatic.

[Chosen Daughter]

Well, in your area, he certainly gave a swift kick in the groin to Boeing. The folks over at Airbus will be ecstatic.

We don't work at Boeing but my husbands job makes things for Boeing out of metal.  Lots of friends and family also who do work for Boeing.  My job uses lots of metal in their products also.

[Suppressed]

Want to see some funny hypocrisy?

Take these anti-American tariff freaks who minimize costs.... and suggest that if these are such tiny changes, then surely American steel and aluminum companies can lower their prices to be competitive!

[WingNot]

 

Both of me and my husbands jobs rely on metals.  Our products are all made of metal.

You must have been in the bathroom when  Mr. McGuire gave his One word of advice to young Benjamin Braddock.

[Frank Cannon]

My job uses lots of metal in their products also.

You use a lot of mercury with bare hands judging by your posting quality. 

[edpc]

You use a lot of mercury with bare hands judging by your posting quality.

A 'sputtering' fool?

[Frank Cannon]

A 'sputtering' fool?

I was heading down the "Mad as a Hatter" trail, but that will work too.

[jpsb]

You use a lot of mercury with bare hands judging by your posting quality.

lol, good one

[Chosen Daughter]

I was heading down the "Mad as a Hatter" trail, but that will work too.

It must be your superior intelligence that allows you to pass those one line farts.

[Suppressed]

You use a lot of mercury with bare hands judging by your posting quality.

And from your erethic posts, you appear to be huffing it.

[WingNot]

And from your erethic posts, you appear to be huffing it.

Girl,  you need to up your game.  That was lame.

[RoosGirl]

Girl,  you need to up your game.  That was lame.

Suppresses is a girl?  Huh.

[WingNot]

Suppresses is a girl?  Huh.

Or cis something.

[Fantom]

 We get very little of our steel from China.  Next question.

Well, directly anyways. They are the 11th biggest direct steel exporter to the USA.  Course, there is the indirect way... like thru mexico.... the second biggest exporter of steel to the USA.

The USA is the worlds biggest importer of steel, the third biggest producer. China.. an order of magnitude larger in production than anyone else. Commodities are fungible, they can be shifted around.

Another consideration, as Canada and mexico are our two biggest ..ahem" suppliers" of steel. Maybe a great club to renegotiate NAFTA on ore fair terms.

[musiclady]

It must be your superior intelligence that allows you to pass those one line farts.

 

[Fantom]

Want to see some funny hypocrisy?

Take these anti-American tariff freaks who minimize costs.... and suggest that if these are such tiny changes, then surely American steel and aluminum companies can lower their prices to be competitive!

Obviously you have never precipitated a solution.

[WingNot]

Obviously you have never precipitated a solution.

But Part of the problem she is.

[DB]

Well, directly anyways. They are the 11th biggest direct steel exporter to the USA.  Course, there is the indirect way... like thru mexico.... the second biggest exporter of steel to the USA.

The USA is the worlds biggest importer of steel, the third biggest producer. China.. an order of magnitude larger in production than anyone else. Commodities are fungible, they can be shifted around.

Another consideration, as Canada and mexico are our two biggest ..ahem" suppliers" of steel. Maybe a great club to renegotiate NAFTA on ore fair terms.

Or we could lower our energy costs making those industries competitive again...

And if they are selling it below cost, then buy all you can and bankrupt them...

More expensive energy and more expensive metals makes for more expensive products. More expensive products don't compete well on the international markets...

[Fantom]

We don't work at Boeing but my husbands job makes things for Boeing out of metal.  Lots of friends and family also who do work for Boeing.  My job uses lots of metal in their products also.

So, you then understand that material costs are a very small part of the equation. Most cost is value added by labor.

Take the average cost of a car $36,000.... it uses a ton and a half of steel. Today the commodity price of rod steel is $700.00. A 25% increase would $175.00 ... that is a metric ton. You add less than $300.00 to the price of a car with this.

Or as a Simple Bricklayer would look at it. I charge $1.10 (labor/overhead) to lay a brick under production conditions. A brick cost another  $0.40.  For a cost(we will , for simplicity forgo other material/job specific costs)of $1.50.

Say you increase my brick costs 25%..... or $0.10 in this case. I now have to charge $1.60 a brick to lay. A , rounding up, 7% increase in costs. And that is on the most material driven work...production. It actually is far less, probably under 5% increase when actual other factors on a competitive bid are factored in.

[Fantom]

Or we could lower our energy costs making those industries competitive again...

And if they are selling it below cost, then buy all you can and bankrupt them...

More expensive energy and more expensive metals makes for more expensive products. More expensive products don't compete well on the international markets...

A very very salient point.    I do not disagree. Here in Oklahoma... we have the worst energy of all..wind farms springing up...obamas asparagus.

[Fantom]

Well, in your area, he certainly gave a swift kick in the groin to Boeing. The folks over at Airbus will be ecstatic.

Not really, I doubt this adds even  a quarter % to the cost of a Boeing jet.

[edpc]

So, you then understand that material costs are a very small part of the equation. Most cost is value added by labor.

Take the average cost of a car $36,000.... it uses a ton and a half of steel. Today the commodity price of rod steel is $700.00. A 25% increase would $175.00 ... that is a metric ton. You add less than $300.00 to the price of a car with this.

True, but I drive a company vehicle. There are quite a few of us in sales, applications, and service that have them. Many other corporations along with rental companies buy them in fleets. That $300 per unit may be a difference maker in bulk contract sales.  Also, Boeing lists the price of a 737 as between $51.5 million and $87 million, depending on the model.  The materials cost will bring that up an appreciable amount.

[Fantom]

True, but I drive a company vehicle. There are quite a few of us in sales, applications, and service that have them. Many other corporations along with rental companies buy them in fleets. That $300 per unit may be a difference maker in bulk contract sales.  Also, Boeing lists the price of a 737 as between $51.5 million and $87 million, depending on the model.  The materials cost will bring that up an appreciable amount.

Which is a very small % this adds to operating expenses.

I have been trying to find how much aluminum is used in ..say a 737.  Best data I've seen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737  is 31 short tonne or 62,000 pounds.

If 70% is aluminum, more modern jets are far less. Than we come up with about 20 short ton rounding down. Metrisc tones of aluminum are trading on the market at under a dollar a pound, rounding up... say  https://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=aluminum $2200.00 a metric ton. Not sure if that reflects the new market AD Trump. 

Anyways, I come up with about $50,000 dollars of aluminum in a 737.  Trump added..at most another $5000.00 to that 51,000,000 - 81,000,000 dollar plane.

[Suppressed]

Or cis something.

Cis-male.  Like you're a cis-C, grub.