Democratic Rep. Blames Harvey Weinstein’s Victims For Being Too Slutty

[Silver Pines]

@dfwgator

So you believed Anita Hill?

Your position is just the other extreme, opposite of always blaming the victim.

Did you miss this in one of my posts to you?  Conveniently, I guess?


I don't mean that we shouldn't let the legal process play out or that we should assume that every man is guilty---I know there are women who fabricate charges.

[Silver Pines]

Absolutely right!  I strongly suspect that in many cases the lust for the shiny object overcame the will to resist the immorality the moment involved!

@Bigun

And I maintain that it's easy to sit behind a keyboard and pretend we know all about every woman's circumstance, whether or not she was underage. 

If a woman felt that giving in to Weinstein was the only way she could keep her job, he is still the bad guy here, and I will not paint every woman who did that as a greedy whore who was willing to do anything for money.  What if she had kids to support?  What if it was do this to keep a lucrative job or bend to this predator's will so I don't have to go back to scrapping for money? 

Weinstein is still the bad guy.  Don't lose sight of that. 

You keep claiming no one answered your question about what should be done.  You've been answered three times now.  I echoed the initial answer in one of my posts to @dfwgator.  The thing is, it isn't what youi want to hear.

[dfwgator]

@dfwgator
 





Did you miss this in one of my posts to you?  Conveniently, I guess?


I don't mean that we shouldn't let the legal process play out or that we should assume that every man is guilty---I know there are women who fabricate charges.

So what's the problem?  All I've been trying to say all along is that if we really want these incidents to stop, women have to be smarter about these things,  it doesn't excuse Weinstein one bit.     But you're just not going to wish these monsters away.

[Cyber Liberty]

I don't mean that we shouldn't let the legal process play out or that we should assume that every man is guilty---I know there are women who fabricate charges.

We are about to see a lot of that as the charges against Weinswine play out.  Watch for it.  Don't believe every woman claiming rape or harassment that are coming out of the woodwork, Weinswine and the company he founded have deep pockets.

[Silver Pines]

OK! Now we are getting somewhere!  There is nothing in your post that I would disagree with! Not a word.  But victims are going to HAVE to come forward and testify for justice to be done.  It won't work any other way!

@Bigun

And just like Gretchen Carlson noted, women will continue with their reluctance to come forward as long as people shame them and call them money-grubbers and demand to know why they didn't speak up sooner.

If you want them to come forward, examine how you react to the situation.

[Silver Pines]

We are about to see a lot of that as the charges against Weinswine play out.  Watch for it.  Don't believe every woman claiming rape or harassment that are coming out of the woodwork, Weinswine and the company he founded have deep pockets.

@Cyber Liberty

Don't know why you assume I do.

[Silver Pines]

So what's the problem?  All I've been trying to say all along is that if we really want these incidents to stop, women have to be smarter about these things,  it doesn't excuse Weinstein one bit.     But you're just not going to wish these monsters away.

@dfwgator

See?  Women just aren't smart enough to handle sexual harassment.  They should take tips from keyboard warriors.

As long as your attitude remains the same, women will continue their reluctance to speak up.

[musiclady]

So what's the problem?  All I've been trying to say all along is that if we really want these incidents to stop, women have to be smarter about these things,  it doesn't excuse Weinstein one bit.     But you're just not going to wish these monsters away.

And who, exactly, even remotely implied that he or she thought these evil beasts could be "wished away?"

We would all love for 15 or 16 year old girls to be "smarter" about these things (and everything), but even in saying that, you seem to be implying that if these kids were more savvy that what happened to them would not have happened.

What we NEED to do, is put all these predators away.  They need to be arrested, tried, convicted and punished.

And their victims should NOT be blamed because they weren't "smart enough" to keep the rape from happening.

[Cyber Liberty]

@Cyber Liberty

Don't know why you assume I do.

@CatherineofAragon

That was just mean.  I never said I assume you do. 

(You know me better than that.)

[Bigun]

@Bigun

And I maintain that it's easy to sit behind a keyboard and pretend we know all about every woman's circumstance, whether or not she was underage. 

If a woman felt that giving in to Weinstein was the only way she could keep her job, he is still the bad guy here, and I will not paint every woman who did that as a greedy whore who was willing to do anything for money.  What if she had kids to support?  What if it was do this to keep a lucrative job or bend to this predator's will so I don't have to go back to scrapping for money? 

Weinstein is still the bad guy.  Don't lose sight of that. 

You keep claiming no one answered your question about what should be done.  You've been answered three times now.  I echoed the initial answer in one of my posts to @dfwgator.  The thing is, it isn't what youi want to hear.

Look @CatherineofAragon,  I took the time to go back through the thread this morning because I  felt it incumbent on me to do so and have resolved the controversy to my satisfaction. 

There is NOTHING anyone can do to protect a women from slugs like Wienstein if the women chooses to participate regardless of her motivation for doing so!

Have a nice rest of your day!

[musiclady]

@dfwgator

See?  Women just aren't smart enough to handle sexual harassment.  They should take tips from keyboard warriors.

As long as your attitude remains the same, women will continue their reluctance to speak up.

Exactly right.

This is the response that men (and unfortunately some women) have had for eons, and one of the reasons that women and girls are so stinking afraid to make the charges.

[dfwgator]

We would all love for 15 or 16 year old girls to be "smarter" about these things (and everything), but even in saying that, you seem to be implying that if these kids were more savvy that what happened to them would not have happened.
 

In some cases, yes.   But here is the bigger issue,  Where were their parents?

[dfwgator]

What we NEED to do, is put all these predators away.  They need to be arrested, tried, convicted and punished.

 

I wish I had a magic wand I could wave and make it so.   So if you want actually want this to happen, then it will take women being smarter to make that happen.    And law enforcement needs to do a better job of backing up those women who indeed are brave enough to come out against these monsters.

[musiclady]

Look @CatherineofAragon,  I took the time to go back through the thread this morning because I  felt it incumbent on me to do so and have resolved the controversy to my satisfaction. 

There is NOTHING anyone can do to protect a women from slugs like Wienstein if the women chooses to participate regardless of her motivation for doing so!

Have a nice rest of your day!

Aren't we talking about the women who did NOT choose to participate?

I don't agree with your doomsday attitude, Bigun.  SOMETHING can be done, and it actually IS being done.

In spite of this dimwitted Democrat who's blaming the girls for Weinstein's evil.

When more people have the courage to speak up, things DO happen.

[Bigun]

Aren't we talking about the women who did NOT choose to participate?

I don't agree with your doomsday attitude, Bigun.  SOMETHING can be done, and it actually IS being done.

In spite of this dimwitted Democrat who's blaming the girls for Weinstein's evil.

When more people have the courage to speak up, things DO happen.

Indeed!  WHEN!  Not before!

[musiclady]

I wish I had a magic wand I could wave and make it so.   So if you want actually want this to happen, then it will take women being smarter to make that happen.    And law enforcement needs to do a better job of backing up those women who indeed are brave enough to come out against these monsters.

Unfortunately, too many officers do the same kind of blaming that's gone on here.

I wish you would understand how awful it is, not only to be assaulted or raped, but then to be blamed, accused, and not taken seriously.

It is far better to assume the girls are telling the truth than assume the perpetrator is innocent.

Even PARENTS don't always believe their daughters (and sons) when they try to tell them about abuse.

The culture of shaming the victim as an immediate response has got to end.

(And NO one here has assumed they're all telling the truth.  That argument is poppycock).

[dfwgator]

Exactly right.

This is the response that men (and unfortunately some women) have had for eons, and one of the reasons that women and girls are so stinking afraid to make the charges.

And yes, it's also going to take some shaming of those actresses who willingly went along with Weinstein....Don't tell me there weren't at least a few actresses that had no problem doing what they had to do to get that precious acting role.

And just so I don't come off as being sexist, there are plenty of male whore actors as well.

[musiclady]

Indeed!  WHEN!  Not before!

Hate to nitpick, but how many conservative men have assumed that the victims of Weinsten deserved what they got because it is "Hollywood" and they should know better.

Why should they speak up with that kind of pervasive attitude?  It's hard enough if people believe you.

And we have two personal examples even on this thread of women who were NOT believed when they were assaulted.

The problem is that the assumption of too many is that girls are lying about what happened.

THAT is what has to end.

[Bigun]

Hate to nitpick, but how many conservative men have assumed that the victims of Weinsten deserved what they got because it is "Hollywood" and they should know better.

Why should they speak up with that kind of pervasive attitude?  It's hard enough if people believe you.

And we have two personal examples even on this thread of women who were NOT believed when they were assaulted.

The problem is that the assumption of too many is that girls are lying about what happened.

THAT is what has to end.

I have no idea!  All I can tell you is that I was not one of them!

[musiclady]

And yes, it's also going to take some shaming of those actresses who willingly went along with Weinstein....Don't tell me there weren't at least a few actresses that had no problem doing what they had to do to get that precious acting role.

That, actually, is irrelevant to the situations his many, many real victims found themselves in.

The argument that some "wanted it," (a fairly risky assumption at that) has NOTHING to do with the fact that there were many real victims.

You're shifting the topic, I think because it's uncomfortable for you to state straight out that victims of rape are NEVER to blame.

[musiclady]

I have no idea!  All I can tell you is that I was not one of them!

I know!

[dfwgator]

That, actually, is irrelevant to the situations his many, many real victims found themselves in.

The argument that some "wanted it," (a fairly risky assumption at that) has NOTHING to do with the fact that there were many real victims.

You're shifting the topic, I think because it's uncomfortable for you to state straight out that victims of rape are NEVER to blame.

Are we talking rape or harassment?    Rape implies that they had sex against their will.    They may not have enjoyed having sex with Weinstein, but they felt it was worth it to advance their career.   It's abominable to be sure, but that's not rape.   

And in "some" cases, that's exactly what happened.  Now be clear, it is always rape in my book if they are under the age of 18.

[musiclady]

Are we talking rape or harassment?    Rape implies that they had sex against their will.    They may not have enjoyed having sex with Weinstein, but they felt it was worth it to advance their career.   It's abominable to be sure, but that's not rape.   

And in "some" cases, that's exactly what happened.  Now be clear, it is always rape in my book if they are under the age of 18.

Well, it is legally too.

But what do you mean by "harassment"?  Are you including fondling?  grabbing? undressing?  At what point is it not a problem when this happens between an employer (or future employer) and a young woman needing a job?

You DO realize that this is not a problem that only Hollywood has, right?

And at what point do you say, OK, even if the young (maybe 18) woman reluctantly agrees, that there is a crime that has been permitted by forcing her into an untenable position?

I get the feeling you're still grasping at straws to protect men from women here.  Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems you're working pretty hard to not deal with the actuality of what goes on in most cases.

[dfwgator]

You DO realize that this is not a problem that only Hollywood has, right?
 

No, but it's FAR worse in Hollywood than anywhere else, because of the kind of people that tend to be attracted to having a career in Hollywood.

[musiclady]

No, but it's FAR worse in Hollywood than anywhere else, because of the kind of people that tend to be attracted to having a career in Hollywood.

Totally agree with that.  Hollywood was a cesspool long before the sexual revolution turned the rest of the country into a cesspool as well.

They've been absolutely amoral for decades, and I'm sure this kind of thing has been going on for a very long time.