Rand Paul: Buying American isn't necessarily the right choice

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Not at all. I am saying that rarified high tech jobs are not something that most folks can handle.
Take the loggers here. The government shut off the woods and allowed Canadian wood into the country at crazy low prices. Literally within 5 years, a major industry in our region dried up completely. Largely regulated out of business.

So the loggers were out of work almost entirely. And the cat operators were out of work too - and the road patrols, and whole fleets of dump trucks. And then of course, the mills closed down...  and the jippo mills. All that's left is the plywood mill and a couple paper mills down in Missoula.

There's still some good jobs around... Ag is still pretty strong, and there is some light manufacturing in town. Construction comes and goes. But mostly we're about tourists now. And all those logger families are still scratching hard to make a living, ever since the woods shut down, near twenty years ago... Whole generations without a way forward. 

What pays here now? Government jobs and health industry jobs. one or two tech companies, and insurance. Not the kind of thing a guy in a flannel shirt knows how to do.

 

I'm with you on the regulations... but the answer isn't to put a tariff on imported goods.

[driftdiver]

No.

People want the best value for the amount of money they can/want to spend.  Almays will.

The problem is that they value they seek may not be the value you do.

Cars are a great example.  I value handling performance, then engine power, and finally the interior's material quality  Others value cargo capacity, seating capacity, and then vehicle height.

I think they are getting poor value for their money when they buy a Ford Explorer, because I don't want their value points.  And they think I waste my money with a VW GTI or a Mazda RX-8.

@HonestJohn
Looking at the success of Walmart the facts differ from your theory.    They dont sell on quality.  They don't sell on customer service.   They sell on price.

Cars and houses are one thing, they represent a significant investment.     For the rest of our daily needs we have been convinced that price is everything and a huge percentage of the population believes it.  Although some people are wising up.

[Oceander]

@HonestJohn
Looking at the success of Walmart the facts differ from your theory.    They dont sell on quality.  They don't sell on customer service.   They sell on price.

Cars and houses are one thing, they represent a significant investment.     For the rest of our daily needs we have been convinced that price is everything and a huge percentage of the population believes it.  Although some people are wising up.

Because their quality (or lack) is a given and their primary market is people who have very little money and are therefore very price conscious. 

[roamer_1]

Why do rural people feel entitled to jobs anymore than urban folks? I swear, rural baby boomers are even more entitled than urban millenials.

You're not entitled to a job any more than anyone else. If you live in a town that is dependent on a specific industry, you have make plans to move or risk the wrath of the market.

Welcome to capitalism.

Bull crap. Our jobs were regulated out, not lost to competition. MOST of the rural countryside is getting regulated out. We can't live without the forest, and now it's all gated off.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Bull crap. Our jobs were regulated out, not lost to competition. MOST of the rural countryside is getting regulated out. We can't live without the forest, and now it's all gated off.

I'm with you on the regulations, but the answer isn't to close off the door to imports.

[driftdiver]

I'm with you on the regulations... but the answer isn't to put a tariff on imported goods.

Again with the tariff word.    I haven't seen anyone suggest a tariff.

Its weird how so many people will argue that Americans shouldn't protect American business & jobs but they ignore that other countries have all kinds of barriers to our trade.

Seems like "free trade" is a one way street.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

@HonestJohn
Looking at the success of Walmart the facts differ from your theory.    They dont sell on quality.  They don't sell on customer service.   They sell on price.

Walmart sells the same crap everyone else does for the most part. Is a Walmart Iphone of lesser quality than a Target or Best Buy one?

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Again with the tariff word.    I haven't seen anyone suggest a tariff.

Its weird how so many people will argue that Americans shouldn't protect American business & jobs but they ignore that other countries have all kinds of barriers to our trade.

Seems like "free trade" is a one way street.

I thought Trump at one point wanted a 30% tariff on all imported goods?

[HonestJohn]

If outsourcing and offshoring are so good for American business why has Chinas economy grown so much while ours doesn't?

Ours is growing. 

And China's been outsourcing jobs for a while now.  Those t-shirts aren't made in China anymore.  They are made in Vietnam. and the Chinese worker isn't sitting in his village decrying the global economy.  He's gone and moved to find another job in a more profitable business, likely electronics.

Not to mentiom just how much money China is investing worldwide.  And their 'Belt and Road' initiative is set to have the world see a *MASSIVE* growth of Chinese investment worldwide.  Or at least, in those countries that don't refuse them.

Two major investments already signed are massive port upgrades throughout the Pacific and South Asia... as well as new highways/railroads to connect China to Europe.

We could have had China pay for major port upgrades here, had we decided to sign onto the initiative, but we got our current administration.  So no, we refused it and are now seeing the world pass us by.

[driftdiver]

Walmart sells the same crap everyone else does for the most part. Is a Walmart Iphone of lesser quality than a Target or Best Buy one?

The VAST majority of items sold at Walmart are made to Walmart specs.   However some items such as an iPhone are the same.

I've seen Black & Decker drills at Walmart that were much more cheaply made then those at other stores.    Then theres the cloths, most of which are made of inferior materials.    At one point 26% of everything P&G sold was at Walmart. 

Or do you really think the manufacturers just eat the price differential?

[roamer_1]

Our rural population has a toxic mix of cultural beliefs that are working to destroy them.

1. Place no value in education. (hard to get a good paying job, or ANY job without that)

2. Overemphasis on family.  So much so that they will not move to get a job.

3. Suspicious of anything new, whether it be a newcomer to the town or a change.  It's hard to get out of poverty if you reject new investors/refuse to solicit for them.

When it all folds up, we'll still be here.
It's the cities that are toxic.

[HonestJohn]

Not at all. I am saying that rarified high tech jobs are not something that most folks can handle.
Take the loggers here. The government shut off the woods and allowed Canadian wood into the country at crazy low prices. Literally within 5 years, a major industry in our region dried up completely. Largely regulated out of business.

So the loggers were out of work almost entirely. And the cat operators were out of work too - and the road patrols, and whole fleets of dump trucks. And then of course, the mills closed down...  and the jippo mills. All that's left is the plywood mill and a couple paper mills down in Missoula.

There's still some good jobs around... Ag is still pretty strong, and there is some light manufacturing in town. Construction comes and goes. But mostly we're about tourists now. And all those logger families are still scratching hard to make a living, ever since the woods shut down, near twenty years ago... Whole generations without a way forward. 

What pays here now? Government jobs and health industry jobs. one or two tech companies, and insurance. Not the kind of thing a guy in a flannel shirt knows how to do.

And there were job retraining programs... at least there were, before we voted it nutbags that didn't see any value in that.  They'd help pay for retraining into other. high demand jobs.

CAD/CAM assisted machining is a job field that is screaming for jobs, and is paying in the $80,000 range.  And it's not hard to learn.

Of course, you might have to move.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

So at this point what difference is there between Rumpkins and liberals? Because I don't see any and their arguments are completely identical.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

When it all folds up, we'll still be here.
It's the cities that are toxic.

Actually I read that rural folks are moving into the cities at an increasing rate.

[thackney]

Again with the tariff word.    I haven't seen anyone suggest a tariff.

President Donald J. Trump’s Weekly Address
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/07/21/president-donald-j-trumps-weekly-address
July 21, 2017

My fellow Americans,
 
On Monday, I signed a Presidential Proclamation declaring this to be “Made in America Week.”

We believe that our country is stronger, safer, and more prosperous when we make more of our goods and our products right here in the USA.  When we purchase products Made in America, the wealth, revenue and jobs all stay in our country – to be enjoyed by our people.
 
Since we first won our Independence, our Founders and many of our greatest leaders have promoted that we should afford a special level of protection to the products and goods manufactured within our borders....

- - - - -

What do believe is the special level of protection?

Rand Paul was speaking to CNN due to this proclamation and that Trump hires foreign workers at his Mar-a-Lago Club in Florida.

[HonestJohn]

When it all folds up, we'll still be here.
It's the cities that are toxic.

You've been given examples and shown the job opportunities elsewhere.  And you're response is the get mulish and justify the towns and their suffering.

That's a great example of the toxic ways found in rural areas.

[driftdiver]

Ours is growing. 

And China's been outsourcing jobs for a while now.  Those t-shirts aren't made in China anymore.  They are made in Vietnam. and the Chinese worker isn't sitting in his village decrying the global economy.  He's gone and moved to find another job in a more profitable business, likely electronics.

Not to mentiom just how much money China is investing worldwide.  And their 'Belt and Road' initiative is set to have the world see a *MASSIVE* growth of Chinese investment worldwide.  Or at least, in those countries that don't refuse them.

Two major investments already signed are massive port upgrades throughout the Pacific and South Asia... as well as new highways/railroads to connect China to Europe.

We could have had China pay for major port upgrades here, had we decided to sign onto the initiative, but we got our current administration.  So no, we refused it and are now seeing the world pass us by.

Ours is growing very very slowly.   Barely at all.

[driftdiver]

I thought Trump at one point wanted a 30% tariff on all imported goods?

See theres the problem, you thought.

Now go insult all those Rumpkins some more.   Its a great way to win friends and influence people.

[driftdiver]

President Donald J. Trump’s Weekly Address
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/07/21/president-donald-j-trumps-weekly-address
July 21, 2017

My fellow Americans,
 
On Monday, I signed a Presidential Proclamation declaring this to be “Made in America Week.”

We believe that our country is stronger, safer, and more prosperous when we make more of our goods and our products right here in the USA.  When we purchase products Made in America, the wealth, revenue and jobs all stay in our country – to be enjoyed by our people.
 
Since we first won our Independence, our Founders and many of our greatest leaders have promoted that we should afford a special level of protection to the products and goods manufactured within our borders....

- - - - -

What do believe is the special level of protection?

Rand Paul was speaking to CNN due to this proclamation and that Trump hires foreign workers at his Mar-a-Lago Club in Florida.

@thackney
Now post a link where someone on this thread suggested a tariff?   

[thackney]

@thackney
Now post a link where someone on this thread suggested a tariff?   

This is the topic of the article of the thread.  I didn't see where someone accused another posting of saying it.

[driftdiver]

This is the topic of the article of the thread.  I didn't see where someone accused another posting of saying it.

@thackney
Buying American is the topic.  The word "tariff" doesn't show up in the article a single time.

Again, many countries have steep barriers to entry of US products.    Free traitors never seem to be worried about those.  No, they are solely concerned that America might do something, anything, to protect itself.

[roamer_1]

I'm with you on the regulations... but the answer isn't to put a tariff on imported goods.

Tell that to all the loggers, equipment operators, truckers, mill workers, industrial warehouses, Paint and body shops, saw shops, car dealers truck and tractor dealers, and etc and so on, that used to revolve around those logging jobs.

And YES, when Canada is subsidizing their logging industry, and we are doing it on our own backs, asking nothing from you or anybody else but for a fair shake, damn right a tariff to offset their subsidy is in order.

This ain't unions. This ain't chinese labor. this is freakin CANADA, man!

And it shut down the whole of the Rockies, not just my part of it... The primary industry for the whole dang region. It's what we DO. Now we watch it all go up in smoke every year - hundreds of thousands of acres - because all that infrastructure that used to be here to fight the fires is gone with the logging. It ain't nothing but natural bull crap.

That isn't capitalism. Not by a whole helluva long shot. 'Free trade' is bullcrap. Fair Trade in the Duncan Hunter sense of the word. I'll go that far, but no further.

I don't mind playing ball.I haven't held a job since I was 18. I make jobs for others. but I expect a level playing field.

[Suppressed]

@thackney
Again, many countries have steep barriers to entry of US products.

Much to the detriment of their consumers.

[driftdiver]

Tell that to all the loggers, equipment operators, truckers, mill workers, industrial warehouses, Paint and body shops, saw shops, car dealers truck and tractor dealers, and etc and so on, that used to revolve around those logging jobs.

And YES, when Canada is subsidizing their logging industry, and we are doing it on our own backs, asking nothing from you or anybody else but for a fair shake, damn right a tariff to offset their subsidy is in order.

This ain't unions. This ain't chinese labor. this is freakin CANADA, man!

And it shut down the whole of the Rockies, not just my part of it... The primary industry for the whole dang region. It's what we DO. Now we watch it all go up in smoke every year - hundreds of thousands of acres - because all that infrastructure that used to be here to fight the fires is gone with the logging. It ain't nothing but natural bull crap.

That isn't capitalism. Not by a whole helluva long shot. 'Free trade' is bullcrap. Fair Trade in the Duncan Hunter sense of the word. I'll go that far, but no further.

I don't mind playing ball.I haven't held a job since I was 18. I make jobs for others. but I expect a level playing field.

@roamer_1
When I first moved to Florida there were orange trees everywhere.  Fields of tomatoes, peppers, strawberries lined the roads outside of the city.    Now there's barely anything planted.

Strawberries are about the only crop left in this area and its a fraction of what it used to be.

All of it has gone to South America

[thackney]

@thackney
Buying American is the topic.  The word "tariff" doesn't show up in the article a single time.

Again, many countries have steep barriers to entry of US products.    Free traitors never seem to be worried about those.  No, they are solely concerned that America might do something, anything, to protect itself.

So what is the special level of protection Trump was talking about?  Was it tariffs?  If not, what was it?