Rand Paul: Buying American isn't necessarily the right choice

[Oceander]

No its funded by Americans who are sending money to Canadians.  What happens when Americans run out of money?

Not if Canadians are underselling Americans because of Canadian subsidies. 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

No its funded by Americans who are sending money to Canadians.  What happens when Americans run out of money?

You mean like if they're paying too much for lumber?   

[roamer_1]

So we get to buy really cheap wood from Canada - under market value in fact - and that means we can build a lot more houses than we would otherwise have, so some of the unemployed lumbermen shift to housing construction, thereby learning a valuable new trade that isn't so much at the whim of the Canadian government, and we also get to keep more of our forests intact, which is a positive value in and of itself.  And all funded by the Canadian taxpayer.

Wow. And all it cost you is the major industry of five or six American States...
Oh, and most of that lumber is being bought here and shipped right to the coast So no, you are not getting much advantage over American grown. Japan is, and China is....

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

So we get to buy really cheap wood from Canada - under market value in fact - and that means we can build a lot more houses than we would otherwise have, so some of the unemployed lumbermen shift to housing construction, thereby learning a valuable new trade that isn't so much at the whim of the Canadian government, and we also get to keep more of our forests intact, which is a positive value in and of itself.  And all funded by the Canadian taxpayer.

Excellent point.

[Hoodat]

Not at all. I am saying that rarified high tech jobs are not something that most folks can handle.

Controls jobs are not that rarified and not that high tech.  There are hundreds of integrators out there, all competing for the same work I do.

Meanwhile, control room operators make more money than I do with no college education necessary.

Take the loggers here. The government shut off the woods and allowed Canadian wood into the country at crazy low prices. Literally within 5 years, a major industry in our region dried up completely. Largely regulated out of business.

So the loggers were out of work almost entirely. And the cat operators were out of work too - and the road patrols, and whole fleets of dump trucks. And then of course, the mills closed down...  and the jippo mills. All that's left is the plywood mill and a couple paper mills down in Missoula.

There's still some good jobs around... Ag is still pretty strong, and there is some light manufacturing in town. Construction comes and goes. But mostly we're about tourists now. And all those logger families are still scratching hard to make a living, ever since the woods shut down, near twenty years ago... Whole generations without a way forward. 

What pays here now? Government jobs and health industry jobs. one or two tech companies, and insurance. Not the kind of thing a guy in a flannel shirt knows how to do.

It reminds me of the candle manufacturers here.  They've been out of work ever since Home Depot began selling electric light bulbs.  Now they produce specialty candles because they are in tune to the market.

If these loggers insist on remaining in the farming industry, perhaps they should switch crops.

[roamer_1]

We can agree that government regulation is the problem.  And is often the problem in killing off American Jobs, productivity, etc.

Specifically so. There is no wage disparity. It's Canada. There are no union workers jacking up the cost of labor.  This was our own government tilting the field so badly that we couldn't play.

[roamer_1]

we also get to keep more of our forests intact

Oh, btw... No you don't. Forest management takes out beetle kill, thins growth so trees get bigger, and clears brush in the process, which prevents fire.
Now it all just burns.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

A few important relevant economic facts:

1) US manufacturing jobs have been declining for a long time.  Much longer than the rise of China or recent "free" trade deals like NAFTA.

2) US manufacturing output has been going up the whole time.

3) We're not going to run out of money.  A USD is worthless to China, unless they trade it to us to get some of our stuff, or they trade it to someone else -- but eventually it comes back in exchange for some of our stuff.  Trade balances -- otherwise they wouldn't call it trade.

[Hoodat]

Wow. And all it cost you is the major industry of five or six American States...

Which states?  Names please.  Don't know a single state where lumber is the number one industry.

I happen to live in the state that ranks #4 in timber producers.  Business is good.

[roamer_1]

Controls jobs are not that rarified and not that high tech.  There are hundreds of integrators out there, all competing for the same work I do.

Meanwhile, control room operators make more money than I do with no college education necessary.

Dood, you're talking about people who run chainsaws and skidders and cats for a living. If you gave one of em a keyboard he'd smack you upside your head with it.

It reminds me of the candle manufacturers here.  They've been out of work ever since Home Depot began selling electric light bulbs.  Now they produce specialty candles because they are in tune to the market.

If these loggers insist on remaining in the farming industry, perhaps they should switch crops.

They wouldn't have to IF THE DAMN GOVERNMENT WOULD OPEN THE SALES BACK UP.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Dood, you're talking about people who run chainsaws and skidders and cats for a living. If you gave one of em a keyboard he'd smack you upside your head with it.

Sorry but the days when you can just do one thing and one thing only your entire life are gone forever, despite the government's hand in decimating the industry.

[Hoodat]

Dood, you're talking about people who run chainsaws and skidders and cats for a living. If you gave one of em a keyboard he'd smack you upside your head with it.

Their loss.  I know plenty of rednecks and cajuns now making six figures because they weren't afraid to learn how to operate a mouse and keyboard after doing two years of field maintenance.

[roamer_1]

Which states?  Names please.  Don't know a single state where lumber is the number one industry.

Of course it isn't anymore. It's all gone. There used to be five major mills in this valley alone. Now there's one, and it's a plywood mill.

I happen to live in the state that ranks #4 in timber producers.  Business is good.

The entire rocky mountain corridor. MT, WY, UT, CO, ID, and eastern WA and eastern OR.

[roamer_1]

Their loss.  I know plenty of rednecks and cajuns now making six figures because they weren't afraid to learn how to operate a mouse and keyboard after doing two years of field maintenance.

Good for you. Six states worth of them?

[driftdiver]

You mean like if they're paying too much for lumber?   

What happens when Americans run out of money to send to other countries?

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Good for you. Six states worth of them?

Yes, he knows 6 states worth of rednecks and cajuns.

 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

What happens when Americans run out of money to send to other countries?

That's where cheaper imports comes in. What good does making American's pay more money do? Do you think that we can get rich from taxing people?

[driftdiver]

Their loss.  I know plenty of rednecks and cajuns now making six figures because they weren't afraid to learn how to operate a mouse and keyboard after doing two years of field maintenance.

@Hoodat
I bet I know more keyboard jockeys who were making 6 figures who are now unemployed because their jobs were sent to India or China.

They aren't buying houses now.

[truth_seeker]

Take cell phones.   A friend of mine in India pays $1 a month for his cell phone with 200 minutes of talk time.   $1 a month

They use the same equipment we use.  They have the same support staff we have. 

The telecom companies have outsourced most of their staff to India.  What happens when nobody has a job to pay their highly inflated rates here in the US?

The major phone makers, have expensive versions for rich US customers. But they have cheaper versions, for India.

I have an HTC E8 which uses a plastic case, instead of a metal case. I put them into anther protective case anyway. I bought a brand new E8 for $240 from Sprint, instead of over $500-1,000 for the latest offerings by Apple, Samsung, LG, HTC, etc.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

They aren't buying houses now.

Someone is. My house has gained 6 figures in equity appreciation since I bought it in 2011.

[driftdiver]

Someone is. My house has gained 6 figures in equity appreciation since I bought it in 2011.

Yeah we all saw how real that kind of real estate appreciation is.   lol

 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Yeah we all saw how real that kind of real estate appreciation is.   lol

 

You Rumpsters really do understand the market don't you? Housing, like stocks, oil, etc. goes up and down in value.

[truth_seeker]

Why do rural people feel entitled to jobs anymore than urban folks? I swear, rural baby boomers are even more entitled than urban millenials.

You're not entitled to a job any more than anyone else. If you live in a town that is dependent on a specific industry, you have make plans to move or risk the wrath of the market.

Welcome to capitalism.

Your remarks sound like a "chip on your shoulder," about rural people, and a babyboomers.

But the same capitalism forces you suggest for them, apply to EVERYBODY (age cohort), ANYWHERE (rural, suburban and rural).

[roamer_1]

Yes, he knows 6 states worth of rednecks and cajuns.
 

Well it's easy to say retraining, until you measure it against the scope of the thing.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

But the same capitalism forces you suggest for them, apply to EVERYBODY (age cohort), ANYWHERE (rural, suburban and rural).

Why do "rugged, independent" rural folks want protection from the big bad free market then?