Rand Paul: Buying American isn't necessarily the right choice

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Tell that to all the loggers, equipment operators, truckers, mill workers, industrial warehouses, Paint and body shops, saw shops, car dealers truck and tractor dealers, and etc and so on, that used to revolve around those logging jobs.

And YES, when Canada is subsidizing their logging industry, and we are doing it on our own backs, asking nothing from you or anybody else but for a fair shake, **** right a tariff to offset their subsidy is in order.

This ain't unions. This ain't chinese labor. this is freakin CANADA, man!

And it shut down the whole of the Rockies, not just my part of it... The primary industry for the whole dang region. It's what we DO. Now we watch it all go up in smoke every year - hundreds of thousands of acres - because all that infrastructure that used to be here to fight the fires is gone with the logging. It ain't nothing but natural bull crap.

That isn't capitalism. Not by a whole helluva long shot. 'Free trade' is bullcrap. Fair Trade in the Duncan Hunter sense of the word. I'll go that far, but no further.

I don't mind playing ball.I haven't held a job since I was 18. I make jobs for others. but I expect a level playing field.

And what does that tariff on Canadian lumber do? Make wood more expensive for Americans.

In other words it hurts workers instead of helps them.

[driftdiver]

So what is the special level of protection Trump was talking about?  Was it tariffs?  If not, what was it?

Dunno, the article I read is about Rand Paul making a statement.  But there are a lot of ways to level the playing field.    Just talking about it raises visibility.   Maybe we could stop sending money to foreign countries to subsidize their industry.   Stop giving tax breaks to companies that offshore jobs.

All kinds of things can be done.   But it starts with admitting that the job of our Government is to protect Americans first.  Not Canadians, Chinese, Indians, or anyone else.

IN many cases its in Americas best interest to be a good friend but its a two way street.  Or it should be

[roamer_1]

And there were job retraining programs... at least there were, before we voted it nutbags that didn't see any value in that.  They'd help pay for retraining into other. high demand jobs.

CAD/CAM assisted machining is a job field that is screaming for jobs, and is paying in the $80,000 range.  And it's not hard to learn.

Of course, you might have to move.

Screw that. Loggers ain't made for that, any more than cowboys are.

And how exactly do you sell a rural homestead and come up with enough money to move six kids and a wife to a place where real estate and rental is five times what your whole place is worth? You're crazy.

[driftdiver]

Much to the detriment of their consumers.

@Suppressed
Governments don't have customers.

They do have corrupt politicians and people with wads of cash trying to bribe them.

[Cripplecreek]

And what does that tariff on Canadian lumber do? Make wood more expensive for Americans.

In other words it hurts workers instead of helps them.

Somebody is buying American lumber. I see 2 or 3 trucks hauling loads of hardwood through town every day. They're heading toward the sawmill I once worked for in Clinton Michigan.

[Suppressed]

@Suppressed
Governments don't have customers.

They do have corrupt politicians and people with wads of cash trying to bribe them.

@driftdiver

The noun in the sentence was "countries," not "governments."

[roamer_1]

Actually I read that rural folks are moving into the cities at an increasing rate.

Sure they are. All the jobs are gone. All the farms got ate up by inheritance tax and sold to mega farms. You can't hardly piss on the ground without a gubmint man running up and declaring it a seasonal waterway, or a duck habitat, or some such.

Y'all are cutting off the very hand that feeds you.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Screw that. Loggers ain't made for that, any more than cowboys are.

And how exactly do you sell a rural homestead and come up with enough money to move six kids and a wife to a place where real estate and rental is five times what your whole place is worth? You're crazy.

So why are lumberjack jobs so precious? If their jobs deserve protection from the market, why not all our jobs?

What about the people working for retail places losing their jobs? Maybe we should have the government step in there?

[Suppressed]

And what does that tariff on Canadian lumber do? Make wood more expensive for Americans.

In other words it hurts workers instead of helps them.

The goal of Trump and his Tariff Army is to transfer money from consumers to unions and business owners.

[roamer_1]

You've been given examples and shown the job opportunities elsewhere.  And you're response is the get mulish and justify the towns and their suffering.

That's a great example of the toxic ways found in rural areas.

Howabout leaving us the hell alone and let us make our own way.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Sure they are. All the jobs are gone. All the farms got ate up by inheritance tax and sold to mega farms. You can't hardly **** on the ground without a gubmint man running up and declaring it a seasonal waterway, or a duck habitat, or some such.

Y'all are cutting off the very hand that feeds you.

So the precious rural snowflakes need government protection to help protect them from ... the government?

Do I have that right?

[driftdiver]

@driftdiver

The noun in the sentence was "countries," not "governments."

Countries don't have consumers either.  Businesses do.

If Free trade is so good why are there so many people out of work?    Just where is all this money going?  Its not going into the pockets of the middle class.

[driftdiver]

So the precious rural snowflakes need government protection to help protect them from ... the government?

Do I have that right?

No, they need protection from the urban bullies with overinflated egos.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Countries don't have consumers either.  Businesses do.

If Free trade is so good why are there so many people out of work?    Just where is all this money going?  Its not going into the pockets of the middle class.

So you want the government to step in and bail you out?

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

No, they need protection from the urban bullies with overinflated egos.

 

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

@roamer_1
When I first moved to Florida there were orange trees everywhere.  Fields of tomatoes, peppers, strawberries lined the roads outside of the city.    Now there's barely anything planted.

Strawberries are about the only crop left in this area and its a fraction of what it used to be.

All of it has gone to South America

Do a search on "florida agricultural history" and you'll find that that's nonsense.

Or just head east on 60 for an hour or so.

[roamer_1]

And what does that tariff on Canadian lumber do? Make wood more expensive for Americans.

In other words it hurts workers instead of helps them.

Not if you open all those gates on our forests and let us go back to what we do.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Not if you open all those gates on our forests and let us go back to what we do.

I don't have a problem with that.

[roamer_1]

So why are lumberjack jobs so precious? If their jobs deserve protection from the market, why not all our jobs?

What about the people working for retail places losing their jobs? Maybe we should have the government step in there?

For the last time, it isn't the market. We can't compete because we have no wood. it's all gated off. locked up. The only wood coming out of here is private land sales.

[Hoodat]

No.

People want the best value for the amount of money they can/want to spend.  Almays will.

The problem is that they value they seek may not be the value you do.

Correctamundo! 

To put it in economic terms, people will always seek the most utility for each dollar spent.  But what represents utility for you may not be the same for me.

Case in point - the $700 cell phone.  There is no way in hell that I would pay that much for a cell phone.  Yet my millennial co-worker will do it without hesitation, because he gets a heck of a lot more utility out of his cell phone ($700 worth) than I get out of mine ($150 worth).

[thackney]

Not if you open all those gates on our forests and let us go back to what we do.

We can agree that government regulation is the problem.  And is often the problem in killing off American Jobs, productivity, etc. 

[Oceander]

For the last time, it isn't the market. We can't compete because we have no wood. it's all gated off. locked up. The only wood coming out of here is private land sales.

So we get to buy really cheap wood from Canada - under market value in fact - and that means we can build a lot more houses than we would otherwise have, so some of the unemployed lumbermen shift to housing construction, thereby learning a valuable new trade that isn't so much at the whim of the Canadian government, and we also get to keep more of our forests intact, which is a positive value in and of itself.  And all funded by the Canadian taxpayer. 

[roamer_1]

So the precious rural snowflakes need government protection to help protect them from ... the government?

Do I have that right?

Well what do you think? It's the government that did it.  It wasn't us not being competitive.

[driftdiver]

So we get to buy really cheap wood from Canada - under market value in fact - and that means we can build a lot more houses than we would otherwise have, so some of the unemployed lumbermen shift to housing construction, thereby learning a valuable new trade that isn't so much at the whim of the Canadian government, and we also get to keep more of our forests intact, which is a positive value in and of itself.  And all funded by the Canadian taxpayer.

No its funded by Americans who are sending money to Canadians.  What happens when Americans run out of money?

[thackney]

For the last time, it isn't the market. We can't compete because we have no wood. it's all gated off. locked up. The only wood coming out of here is private land sales.

It should all be private land sales, because the government should not own the land.