Rand Paul: Buying American isn't necessarily the right choice

[Oceander]

Complicated issue full of emotions and subjectivity.

Whats gonna happen when America has sent all of our production, manufacturing, and skilled jobs overseas?    Ok that tshirt might be cheaper but if you don't have a job even $7 is a lot of money.

Not to mention the wages overseas have gone up tremendously but regulation has not.   I used to be able to hire a software programmer in India for $1 or $2 an hour, then it was $9, then $12, now its $25.   But they still don't have the regulations.   The companies there are still able to get access to money to fund growth.

The free trade people say the money comes back to the US, but it really doesn't.  Perhaps companies like Nestle might have a better profit but the actual money doesn't come back here.  It doesn't buy stuff here, it doesn't pay people here, and it certainly isn't invested in new businesses here.   No that money stays in China and builds stuff in China.

So we outsource our labor and our intellectual capital goes with it.    We cease having the skill to produce, to invent, heck we don't have the skill to even break even in some areas.

America will be a 3rd world country within a couple generations, traded for a $7 tshirt.

A lot of the money does come back in the form of investments in US companies (stocks and bonds) and US treasuries. 

[Cripplecreek]

I go through a cheap pair of cheap white sneakers (nurse shoes) in about 6 weeks at work but its fine because I have to wear shoes that basically look new anyway. Fortunately they're only about $10.

Its amazing how quickly carpet wears out the soles.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

Its just an anicdote, but representative. We get cheaper traps, but how much does society lose by now having two unemployed laborers with no money to churn back into the local economy?

That presupposes all those workers are capable of doing is making traps.  I suspect, if we don't pay them to sit on the couch playing xbox, they'd find something else.

[Suppressed]

@Suppressed
Its far more complicated then that.

@driftdiver  Thus, you'll note my point that we have to reduce other burdens.

But still, on a level playing field, American wages go down unless they produce more.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

It hasn't?   You should look around.   There are many areas where its quite visible.

I'm looking around, not around here. Things were actually worse in the 90's... take crime for example.

[driftdiver]

A lot of the money does come back in the form of investments in US companies (stocks and bonds) and US treasuries.

It may come back to a "US Company" but it doesn't come back to the US.  Companies keep it overseas and invest it in operations overseas.   It may also come back to the US treasuries but its when they buy our ever increasing debt.  Not exactly a good thing.

[kevindavis007]

It may come back to a "US Company" but it doesn't come back to the US.  Companies keep it overseas and invest it in operations overseas.   It may also come back to the US treasuries but its when they buy our ever increasing debt.  Not exactly a good thing.

So basically you want US companies to only stay in the US???

[roamer_1]

Don't get me started on Snap-off. I just don't see the value in a $500 floor jack. But that's just me.

Depends on what you're buying. Their wrenches and sockets are king, bar none. Their ratchets are fair... I like a tighter click. Their screw drivers suck... I actually like craftsman better, except for cabinet drivers, which are Snap-on. Pliers tend toward Channel-Lock. And no, I don't buy their jacks. They're just rebranded anyway, and you can buy from the original manufacturer for half the money.

[driftdiver]

I'm looking around, not around here. Things were actually worse in the 90's... take crime for example.

Crime?  Thats because almost !% of our population is in jail and another 2% are on probation or parole.  A rate thats much higher than other industrialized countries.

How about drug use?  Its rampant in rural America.

Income?   According to the sources I find our median household income is lower today than it was in the late 90s. 

People from other countries are coming to the US to buy property.  Why?  Because its cheap.  Why is it cheap?  Because people here don't have the money to buy it.

[Oceander]

Crime?  Thats because almost !% of our population is in jail and another 2% are on probation or parole.  A rate thats much higher than other industrialized countries.

How about drug use?  Its rampant in rural America.

Income?   According to the sources I find our median household income is lower today than it was in the late 90s. 

People from other countries are coming to the US to buy property.  Why?  Because its cheap.  Why is it cheap?  Because people here don't have the money to buy it.

[driftdiver]

So basically you want US companies to only stay in the US???

@kevindavis
I want America to be strong and a leader of the world.

Is it wrong to want America to be strong?   If we don't do the things necessary to be strong then we won't be.

[driftdiver]

Glad you find the facts so humorous.   

[Oceander]

@kevindavis
I want America to be strong and a leader of the world.

Is it wrong to want America to be strong?   If we don't do the things necessary to be strong then we won't be.

Yeah, those high tariffs and trade restrictions in the 1920s and 1930s sure made the US strong.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

@kevindavis
I want America to be strong and a leader of the world.

Is it wrong to want America to be strong?   If we don't do the things necessary to be strong then we won't be.

Protecting American industry and workers from competition will not do this.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Crime?  Thats because almost !% of our population is in jail and another 2% are on probation or parole.  A rate thats much higher than other industrialized countries.

How about drug use?  Its rampant in rural America.

Income?   According to the sources I find our median household income is lower today than it was in the late 90s. 

People from other countries are coming to the US to buy property.  Why?  Because its cheap.  Why is it cheap?  Because people here don't have the money to buy it.

This might be true in rural America, but not around here.

The late 90's was an aberration cause by an Internet bubble that promptly popped a few years later. Unfair to compare the peak to now.

But protectionism won't bring anything back or make anything better.

[driftdiver]

Protecting American industry and workers from competition will not do this.

Shipping all our jobs and knowledge overseas and building our competitors won't either.

[driftdiver]

This might be true in rural America, but not around here.

The late 90's was an aberration cause by an Internet bubble that promptly popped a few years later. Unfair to compare the peak to now.

But protectionism won't bring anything back or make anything better.

How about a level playing field?   Its not even level here.  Companies will lie so they can hire non-citizens.   I've seen companies pull the job ad after interviewing Americans and changing it so that none of them met the requirements.  Then hiring H1Bs.  They would even hire more H1Bs with a greater cost.  Probably because they were getting tax credits for doing so.

[skeeter]

Then I take it your not a fan of automation then..

I like automation here fine. In China, not so much.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

How about a level playing field?   Its not even level here.  Companies will lie so they can hire non-citizens.   I've seen companies pull the job ad after interviewing Americans and changing it so that none of them met the requirements.  Then hiring H1Bs.  They would even hire more H1Bs with a greater cost.  Probably because they were getting tax credits for doing so.

Yeah... but that's a problem with our laws and enforcement. Is the solution to H1b's to slap a tariff on imported goods (causing our trading partners to do the same)?

[driftdiver]

Yeah, those high tariffs and trade restrictions in the 1920s and 1930s sure made the US strong.

@Oceander
There is a TON of middle ground ya know.  its not all or nothing.

BTW, what was so funny about the facts that I posted.   Do you really find that humorous?

[GrouchoTex]

Kevin D. Williamson has a nice article in National Review Online right now on goods Made in America.

[driftdiver]

Yeah... but that's a problem with our laws and enforcement. Is the solution to H1b's to slap a tariff on imported goods (causing our trading partners to do the same)?

Who used the word tariff?

[Oceander]

Kevin D. Williamson has a nice article in National Review Online right now on goods Made in America.

Got a link?

[thackney]

Protecting American industry and workers from competition will not do this.

Agreed.  Restricting competition is the way to end up with lower quality and higher prices, everytime.

[Hoodat]

Its just an anecdote, but representative. We get cheaper traps, but how much does society lose by now having two unemployed laborers with no money to churn back into the local economy?

You also have an entrepreneur who is still pouring his profits back into the US economy.  The alternative is that you have nothing.  Both laborers lose their jobs AND the entrepreneur closes up shop.

So why are we talking about manufacturing in the first place?  The US economy is driven by service - not manufacturing.  It has been that way for a very long time.  And there is nothing wrong with it either.  I have a service job, one made possible because of automation.  I work in the industrial automation field.  And I can attest to the hundreds of thousands of good-paying jobs that are born out of the automation field.