GOP lawmakers in North Carolina introduce bill to restore ban on same-sex marriage

[INVAR]

Isn't that exactly what you are doing?

Only people like you would suggest such a thing.

Wake me up when a biblical Christian successfully sues a homo completely out of business and depletes their entire life savings and costs them their home because they refuse to bake a cake for a baptism with a bible verse on it.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Jazzhead

If you believe that the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin,  then don't practice it.  Or, if God made you gay (as He most certainly has for a small percentage of us), deny who you are for the rest of your life, and hope He rewards you for your self-flagellating piety.  If the foregoing describes you, then you're not a self-righteous Bible thumper.   You're a self-righteous Bible thumper when you insist that the State enforce a fundamentalist view of "Biblical morality" even when it causes real harm to good folks who seek to be faithful and true to one another.     

I don't disagree with much of this, and am fine with the concept of "live and let live" when it comes to people being gay.  But I think you're sidestepping a core component of the "gay agenda" that goes beyond just wanting to be left alone.

The truth is that a lot of gays want to use the power of the government to force other people to openly acknowledge that their relationships are no difference than heterosexual relationships.  They believe they have the right to compel not just tolerance, but acceptance.  It popped up a lot in the gay marriage debate, where some states offered "civil unions", and many gays opposed that.  Why?  Those unions offered the exact same legal rights.  The issue was they wanted everyone else to agree with them regarding morality/normalcy (or whatever you want to call it), and for me, that goes too far.

I opposed gay marriage, and it had absolutely zero to do with religious belief.  I'm no more "accepting" or "understanding" of gay relationships/behavior than I am of someone who fornicates with chickens -- I just think it is gross as hell.  Now, I think people have the right to be gross.  Just because I think something is rather disgusting does not mean I think nobody should be permitted to do it if that's what floats their boat.  And honestly, I don't even judge them morally at all.  But that doesn't mean I'm not entitled to think it is weird/deviant/gross.

And unfortunately, that's what this has morphed into.  Many gays apparently believing that they have the right to force other people to change their moral views and behaviors to recognize them as they wished to be recognized.  No longer arguing "just leave us alone" but "you have acknowledge that what we do is no different from what you do."  And that's just a bridge too far for me.

[Emjay]

Only people like you would suggest such a thing.

Wake me up when a biblical Christian successfully sues a homo completely out of business and depletes their entire life savings and costs them their home because they refuse to bake a cake for a baptism with a bible verse on it.

Okay, that is an isolated but really horrible incident and never should have happened.

But we have gradually changed in our treatment of homosexuality.  As recently as World War II a computer pioneer cracked the German code and saved untold thousands of lives but was persecuted and prosecuted by the British government because he was a homosexual.

Most people do not call that right or just.

Homosexuality has been regarded as not just a sin but a crime not that long ago.

I don't think we want to go back to that.

There is a 'getting back at people' syndrome existing right now but it is only in a minority of gays.  It's the government's fault for sanctioning it.

[Emjay]

@Jazzhead

I don't disagree with much of this, and am fine with the concept of "live and let live" when it comes to people being gay.  But I think you're sidestepping a core component of the "gay agenda" that goes beyond just wanting to be left alone.

The truth is that a lot of gays want to use the power of the government to force other people to openly acknowledge that their relationships are no difference than heterosexual relationships.  They believe they have the right to compel not just tolerance, but acceptance.  It popped up a lot in the gay marriage debate, where some states offered "civil unions", and many gays opposed that.  Why?  Those unions offered the exact same legal rights.  The issue was they wanted everyone else to agree with them regarding morality/normalcy (or whatever you want to call it), and for me, that goes too far.

I opposed gay marriage, and it had absolutely zero to do with religious belief.  I'm no more "accepting" or "understanding" of gay relationships/behavior than I am of someone who fornicates with chickens -- I just think it is gross as hell.  Now, I think people have the right to be gross.  Just because I think something is rather disgusting does not mean I think nobody should be permitted to do it if that's what floats their boat.  And honestly, I don't even judge them morally at all.  But that doesn't mean I'm not entitled to think it is weird/deviant/gross.

And unfortunately, that's what this has morphed into.  Many gays apparently believing that they have the right to force other people to change their moral views and behaviors to recognize them as they wished to be recognized.  No longer arguing "just leave us alone" but "you have acknowledge that what we do is no different from what you do."  And that's just a bridge too far for me.

Of course there are some gays who want revenge on people who formerly abused them.  But it is not the fault of those gays that we are in somewhat of a pickle about this.  It is the fault of a liberal government that sanctions and rewards this behavior.

This has to stop and it will stop.

[INVAR]

Okay, that is an isolated but really horrible incident and never should have happened.

No.  Wrong.  That was NOT just an isolated incident. It's an increasing continuous effort against those who will not embrace homosexuality.  The homo agenda leadership have instructions on various web and forums instructing homosexuals to infiltrate churches and Christian businesses and demand them to marry or provide for a homo wedding for the purpose of getting a 'no' so they can sue them into oblivion in court.  Some of them are committed to 'criminalizing Christian bigotry' and some have said they want the offending passages of the bible banned by the government altogether.

But we have gradually changed in our treatment of homosexuality.  As recently as World War II a computer pioneer cracked the German code and saved untold thousands of lives but was persecuted and prosecuted by the British government because he was a homosexual.

I don't care.  In 20 years you will say the same thing about pedophiles, child marriages and pet marriages.  The fact society is off the cliff into debauchery doesn't mean I'm leaping off it with the rest of the country.

Homosexuality has been regarded as not just a sin but a crime not that long ago.

I don't think we want to go back to that.

Irrelevant.  God calls it a sin and an abomination, one punishable by eternal death with no chance or opportunity for life everlasting.

[DiogenesLamp]

You don't know the mind of God (and neither do I). 

One would think his mind would be indicated by his actions.  He burned two cities to death because of homosexuality,  and he allowed a third city to be destroyed by the combined might of Israel over homosexuality.   


I think that gives a pretty strong indication of his mind  on the subject.   

[DiogenesLamp]

That's a question for God and God alone.   Your job is to mind your own damn business.   This is not adultery or promiscuity, which damage lives.  There is no immorality here.   No harm to anyone is caused by a couple remaining faithful and true to one another.   

Is it possible that you see no harm because you refuse to look for any?  Did not the spread of AIDS cause much harm?   

Isaac Asimov,  Ryan White and Arthur Ashe were all innocent people who were harmed by homosexuals spreading a deadly disease.   

[roamer_1]

The fact society is off the cliff into debauchery doesn't mean I'm leaping off it with the rest of the country.

I have come to embrace Torah because it is largely a guide toward Yahweh, boldly declared in the face of normalcy bias... Normalized sin shuts off the conscience...

We don't even question a society built upon usury because it is just how we do it... Multiple marriages are just a part of life anymore, to the point that a child is unique if he only has one mom, one dad, and two grandmothers and two grandfathers... Bastard children and single parent households are just a part of the furniture... As the nation slides further into sin, more depravity lies just upon the threshold. What will normal look like to the next generation, and how will they ever find their way back to Yahweh? But his way is not changing - Ours is. And not for the better.

Irrelevant.  God calls it a sin and an abomination, one punishable by eternal death with no chance or opportunity for life everlasting.

As a point of order, not true. Repentance in the blood provides a balm. :)

[Emjay]

No.  Wrong.  That was NOT just an isolated incident. It's an increasing continuous effort against those who will not embrace homosexuality.  The homo agenda leadership have instructions on various web and forums instructing homosexuals to infiltrate churches and Christian businesses and demand them to marry or provide for a homo wedding for the purpose of getting a 'no' so they can sue them into oblivion in court.  Some of them are committed to 'criminalizing Christian bigotry' and some have said they want the offending passages of the bible banned by the government altogether.


I don't care.  In 20 years you will say the same thing about pedophiles, child marriages and pet marriages.  The fact society is off the cliff into debauchery doesn't mean I'm leaping off it with the rest of the country.

Irrelevant.  God calls it a sin and an abomination, one punishable by eternal death with no chance or opportunity for life everlasting.

Somehow I knew you would bring up marriages with dogs.  So ridiculous.

Someday you may want God to forgive you and then He may remind you of this part of the Lord's Prayer.  Forgive me my sins as I forgive those who sin against me.

Good luck!

[kevindavis007]

This could be struck down in the courts unless Kennedy is gone.

[roamer_1]

Somehow I knew you would bring up marriages with dogs.  So ridiculous.

Every bit as ridiculous as two men (or tw women) marrying each other... At least that was so a generation ago.

[INVAR]

As a point of order, not true. Repentance in the blood provides a balm. :)

I Corinthians 6:9-10 make the point pretty plain that those who practice such wickedness will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Repentance is required.

But what you read on this thread from some is justification for the behavior and lauding it as virtuous and not a sin at all, the only sin being anyone daring to call it a sin.

[roamer_1]

I Corinthians 6:9-10 make the point pretty plain that those who practice such wickedness will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Repentance is required.

Right. The passage is 1Cor 6:9-11, with :11 being my point:

1Co 6:9  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 
1Co 6:10  Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 
1Co 6:11  And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 

Teshuva. Repentance. Cease and desist, turn back to YHWH. Homosexuality, like almost every sin, can be wiped away.

But what you read on this thread from some is justification for the behavior and lauding it as virtuous and not a sin at all, the only sin being anyone daring to call it a sin.

Therein one finds the one sin that remains unforgivable... The tin ear that refuses to hear. To sh'ma.

[DiogenesLamp]

Every bit as ridiculous as two men (or tw women) marrying each other... At least that was so a generation ago.

People don't seem to remember how they keep moving the goal posts.   

In 1991 there was an outright ban on homosexuals in the military,   In 1992 it was "Don't ask,  Don't tell",  and in 2016 it was full blown Transvestites/Gender-Changers in active duty. 




http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2015/04/21/army-forces-rotc-cadets-wear-high-heels/



The goal posts, they keep getting moved.   

[INVAR]

Somehow I knew you would bring up marriages with dogs.  So ridiculous.

Well we thought the idea of homosexuals being able to legally "marry" and have churches and Christian businesses forced to accommodate the ceremony was a ridiculous idea 20 years ago too.

The fact is, perverts who want to marry their pets and men who want to have sex with children are now demanding their "rights' to be recognized and their behavior normalized via the courts too now that homosexuals have had their behavior sanctioned.  As we warned, Pandora's Box was opened.

Someday you may want God to forgive you and then He may remind you of this part of the Lord's Prayer.  Forgive me my sins as I forgive those who sin against me.

There is this word called repentance.  You might want to look it up.   Asking God to forgive me while I still justify and promote sin is not something He is going to forgive for according to the scriptures.

[roamer_1]

The fact is, perverts who want to marry their pets and men who want to have sex with children are now demanding their "rights' to be recognized and their behavior normalized via the courts too now that homosexuals have had their behavior sanctioned.  As we warned, Pandora's Box was opened.

Is it any wonder that we as a nation don't even know what bathroom to use? 

[Mesaclone]

I Corinthians 6:9-10 make the point pretty plain that those who practice such wickedness will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Repentance is required.

But what you read on this thread from some is justification for the behavior and lauding it as virtuous and not a sin at all, the only sin being anyone daring to call it a sin.

Corinthians is not god making a point...its Paul making a point. And Paul was a man of his time, steeped in misogyny and hostile to anything that was cultural anathema to the average Jew...ie homosexuality. So quit pretending things like Corinthians are God's law or word on an issue, asserting such just shows you have no understanding of the very book you hold sacred. Paul's OPINIONS on these matters were simply that...opinions...written in letters to churches around the Mediterranean.

Here's two samples of Paul's idiocy aimed at women:

"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says."

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."

These quotes don't make Paul a bad man, but simply show that he was a man of his time...and his opinions reflect that culture. In no way do his opinions on these matters even claim to be the word of God...they are simply the opinions of one man in ancient culture.

[DiogenesLamp]

When spelled out, what we have today in this country is an unbridgeable disagreement about what the family is. Misunderstand the family and all its coherent complexities, what follows is that nothing else will go right. We have no common judgment about the transcendent meaning of our lives. One division maintains, with no real proof, that man has no given nature. Logically and politically, step by step, consequences, that are not accidental, follow. We legalize contraception, then, when that does not work, abortion, euthanasia, fetal experimentation, homosexual marriages and adoptions. We can even decide if we are male or female. A “family” is configured as we wish it to be. These practices have all become “rights” under positive law. They are systematically enforced. No criticism of them is allowed, no matter how scientifically or reasonably based it may be.

http://www.crisismagazine.com/2017/on-civility

[Mesaclone]

Yes,  i've heard the claims made by the Homosexual history revisionists.  According to them,  everyone in History was homosexual,  but does comparing Jesus to Homosexuals serve any purpose beyond insulting what people believe?   Do you regard it as a valid debate technique?   I don't see any benefit to you from making such a comparison. 

Actually, it serves a key purpose...and that is to say that the sexual inclinations of Jesus are utterly meaningless. They don't change the beauty and depth of his message of love to the world, and they don't make him any less of a principled, kind and loving being. It matters not at all if he was homosexual, heterosexual or asexual. That said, he most likely WAS heterosexual and had a wife (quite possibly no less a figure than Mary Magdalene).

You've read a lot of them?  I certainly have.  It rings true on it's own merits.  Boys attracted to boys with everybody having male sex drive?   It's pretty much a non stop orgy.

No, it doesn't ring true at all. And simply asserting it without evidence is nonsense. 






"Normal." 





Well the method used prior to the 1960s was to lock them up in mental institutions.  Sure would have saved millions of lives had we simply continued to do this rather than to allow them to spread AIDS so far and wide.   


For the record,  In the 1980s,  I was very much in favor of quarantining anyone who caught the AIDS virus.  A lot of innocent people died so that the perverts could have their fun.   

As for what is "heterosexual" lifestyle...you miss the point. There is no such thing as a "hetero" nor a "homo" lifestyle. There are millions of people that fit within both categories and they live widely varied lifestyles regardless of their hetero or homo orientation. As a wise man once said "You judge each man individually, on his own merits. Anyone who judges by the group is a peawit."

[INVAR]

Corinthians is not god making a point...its Paul making a point. And Paul was a man of his time, steeped in misogyny and hostile to anything that was cultural anathema to the average Jew...ie homosexuality.

Anything you have to opine on in regards to the scriptures means JACK and SQUAT to me.

Your opinion of the scriptures is akin to a Satan worshipper telling me his.

[txradioguy]

Somehow I knew you would bring up marriages with dogs.  So ridiculous.

People mocked those that predicted the Lawrence v. Texas would lead to gay "marriage" too and yet here we are.

[Mesaclone]

Anything you have to opine on in regards to the scriptures means JACK and SQUAT to me.

Your opinion of the scriptures is akin to a Satan worshipper telling me his.

Dude, you can't even spell worshiper correctly. Citing scripture out of context and misunderstanding its meaning is almost a given.

There is no Satan, FYI, there is no need for such a figure. All that's needed for evil to flourish are the closed minds, spiteful hearts and intellectually blind perspectives of men who use god to condemn others. As if he was a bludgeon available for their personal vendettas...all in his name, of course. As I said earlier, you are the Sadducee of this modern age, impeding men's path to god's love. So, while you may not care for my "opine" on the scriptures, it is precisely the thing that God is using to show you the way back to his love.

[Mesaclone]

Is it any wonder that we as a nation don't even know what bathroom to use? 

I know which one to use....don't you?

[Silver Pines]

Jesus.  Single guy, never married...hangs out at wild parties with the "bad kids"...turns water into wine...loves weddings...sensitive and touchy feely...hangs around with 12 other fellas wherever he goes. You do the math. Catcher or pitcher...who knows.

Probably the most stereotyped essay of ignorance I've ever read as regards the "homosexual lifestyle". What would you define as the "heterosexual lifestyle"? The truth is, your statistics are made up...and your grouping of all homosexuals into a singular "lifestyle" is ludicrous. Comical even, if it weren't so dangerous in the way it dehumanizes a whole class of people. Gays make up a very small percentage of people in general, so the fact those among them who ARE monogamous choose to sanctify their union on a permanent bases hardly impacts other married persons or society. In fact, given your absurd assertion that they all have thousands of lovers...I'd think you'd favor a method for imposing monogamy on such terrible "fornicators".

@Mesaclone

Lol, yeah, Jesus is so sensitive and touchy-feely that the blood will flow up to the height of a horse's bridle when he returns.  According to Scripture He will roar from heaven; the text speaks of His furious anger.  He will smite His enemies and rule with a rod of iron, and the nations will tremble. 

Now I know you don't buy into that part of the Bible.  You only believe the parts that make you comfortable and seem to fit into your worldview.  I don't care and I'm not going to get into an extended argument with you over it.

I just want you to know that everything you're parroting is old and tired.  I used to hear it from leftwingers in the old AOL politics chatrooms and on the message boards. 

It isn't shocking, though I'm sure you hoped it might be.  It's just boring and predictable.

[Mesaclone]

@Mesaclone

Lol, yeah, Jesus is so sensitive and touchy-feely that the blood will flow up to the height of a horse's bridle when he returns.  According to Scripture He will roar from heaven; the text speaks of His furious anger.  He will smite His enemies and rule with a rod of iron, and the nations will tremble. This is a great example of how the writings of one lunatic paint a loving god as a monstrous and cruel beast...a being of hate and punishment and cruelty. Fortunately, the simple fact that some 3rd century church leaders liked this view of god and inserted such a book into "the book"...does not change the true and loving nature of Jesus genuine message and of a loving deity.

Now I know you don't buy into that part of the Bible.  You only believe the parts that make you comfortable and seem to fit into your worldview.  I don't care and I'm not going to get into an extended argument with you over it.
I don't "believe" in what other men have written, I believe in my personal relationship with a loving god. Further, in terms of textual analysis, I recommend reading The Five Gospels for some good analysis of what was genuine source material from the actual Gospel writers vs edits and late additions. Its quite informative and enlightening.

I just want you to know that everything you're parroting is old and tired.  I used to hear it from leftwingers in the old AOL politics chatrooms and on the message boards.
"Liberty and Justice for all" is old and tired....as "I am the way and the light". Yet their meaning is undiminished and worthy of repetition.
 

It isn't shocking, though I'm sure you hoped it might be.  It's just boring and predictable.
I have no wish to shock you...though it IS true that “I come to cast fire in your heart, and would that it were already kindled!"

Keep seeking, Catherine, one day you will find the true god of love.