Not in My Name, NeverTrumpers

[oldmomster]

Not in My Name, NeverTrumpers

August 10, 2016
By Robert Oscar Lopez

Many of my close friends in the conservative movement are NeverTrumpers.  As a result, I find myself in an awkward position.  The NeverTrumpers are appealing to their conservative friends based on emotional claims that I recognize as false, deluded, and selfish.  One friend said, "Who wins the election does not matter as much as the need to vote one's conscience."  This statement is stunningly prideful and childish.  The voting booth is not a ride at Six Flags, and elections are not part of a consumer experiences.  The White House is not Burger King, where you get things your way.

Of course who wins the election is more important than your precious conscience or how you feel about voting.  Your country matters more than you do.  Has America become so weak and self-absorbed that people no longer understand what it means to say, "It's not all about you, honey"?

I guess that's why I could never be a libertarian.

Part of the impasse between me and NeverTrumper friends is that they have never actually sat down and listened to the full horrors that I endured firsthand, which make it undeniable to me that this election is about stopping Hillary Clinton and saving America.  Some games are won by offense, and others are won by defense; elections follow that pattern.  We have to vote against things sometimes.

I know that the dark side of a Clinton presidency would be not merely difficult, but also intolerable, and that Clinton as president would be incomparably more damaging than the likely flaws of a Trump presidency.  Clinton must be stopped at all costs.  We often say "at all costs" without understanding what the term means.  In this case, it means voting for Trump despite whatever shortfalls one sees in him, to save America.

more


http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/08/not_in_my_name_nevertrumpers.html

[oldmomster]

Walter Williams points out that sometimes even the founders had to vote FOR America, even if the Constitution wasn't pure enough.

snip....

'There's little question that slavery is an abomination and a gross violation of human rights, but the founders had to decide whether there would be a union or not. Had morality been their sole guide, they might have taken a hardened, nonnegotiable stand against slavery, but then the Constitution would have never been ratified and a union would not have been formed.

A question that we might ask those academic hustlers who use slavery to attack and criticize the legitimacy of our founding is: Would black Americans, yesteryear and today, have been better off if the Constitution had not been ratified -- with the Northern states having gone their way and the Southern states having gone theirs -- and, as a consequence, no union had been created? I think not.

Ignorance of our history, coupled with an inability to think critically, has provided considerable ammunition for those who want to divide us in pursuit of their agenda. Their agenda is to undermine the legitimacy of our Constitution in order to gain greater control over our lives. Their main targets are the nation's youths. The teaching establishment, at our public schools and colleges, is being used to undermine American values.'


http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2016/04/13/attacking-our-nations-founders-n2146642

[ABX]

     s based on emotional claims that I recognize as false, deluded, and selfish.  One friend said, "Who wins the election does not matter as much as the need to vote one's conscience."   

Wow, that is actually deluded and selfish. The author is claiming you must reject your own conscience values in order to get the outcome he wants, then to accuse those who do otherwise of being deluded and selfish? Sheesh.  If you don't vote your conscience and values, then you are only playing games. Not doing such is why we are in the position we are in now, facing the two worst, most corrupt, main party candidates we've seen in decades of if not ever.

The author needs to get off his high horse and realize his vote is his own and others have the right to their vote, even if it is, shock, voting their conscience and values.

[musiclady]

Wow, that is actually deluded and selfish. The author is claiming you must reject your own conscience values in order to get the outcome he wants, then to accuse those who do otherwise of being deluded and selfish? Sheesh.  If you don't vote your conscience and values, then you are only playing games. Not doing such is why we are in the position we are in now, facing the two worst, most corrupt, main party candidates we've seen in decades of if not ever.

The author needs to get off his high horse and realize his vote is his own and others have the right to their vote, even if it is, shock, voting their conscience and values.

Actually, I think that most of the protestations from the Trump crowd, and especially from those who shriek, bully and accuse, are due to their own guilty consciences.  Somewhere, deep inside, they know that Trump is amoral and corrupt, and their own consciences are trying to get them to wake up and oppose him, but other forces are leading them away from what is right.   Thus, they accuse others in an effort to defend themselves.

[sinkspur]

Of course who wins the election is more important than your precious conscience or how you feel about voting.  Your country matters more than you do.  Has America become so weak and self-absorbed that people no longer understand what it means to say, "It's not all about you, honey"?

If it's not even a little bit about me, honey, then you don't need my vote.

Jerkweed.

[Jazzhead]

Of course who wins the election is more important than your precious conscience or how you feel about voting.  Your country matters more than you do.  Has America become so weak and self-absorbed that people no longer understand what it means to say, "It's not all about you, honey"?

That is, quite simply, a defamation.    We who oppose Trump don't do so for selfish reasons,  or out of sore-loserism.    We oppose Trump because we consider him a grave danger to the nation, and to conservatism.   How is it selfish for me to vote in a way that's completely opposed to my self-interest, and 40-year history of voting Republican?   Do you think I don't know that the price of defeating Trumpism may be Democratic hegemony?

Trrump is unfit to be President.   I've been saying it a lot longer than Hillary has.   So have most on this forum,  which as far as I'm concerned is a beacon of righteous resistance. 

But it is not resistance for its own sake.   Look at Donald Trump,  and tell me why the man's not a menace.         

[GrouchoTex]

Once again, it is like they are looking in a mirror, and blaming #NeverTrump for what they see.
The selfish and childish remarks I see most often come from the Trump supporters, more than those coming from people who have reservations, or may not vote.

[Jazzhead]

There is still time for Trump to step down, you know.   Let Trump save face,  and abdicate in favor of his own veep, Mike Pence.   Let the GOP announce it will go forward on the basis of Trump's economic ideas as articulated to the DAC,  and Ryan's House program of conservative reforms. 

[don-o]

Wow, that is actually deluded and selfish. The author is claiming you must reject your own conscience values in order to get the outcome he wants, then to accuse those who do otherwise of being deluded and selfish? Sheesh.  If you don't vote your conscience and values, then you are only playing games. Not doing such is why we are in the position we are in now, facing the two worst, most corrupt, main party candidates we've seen in decades of if not ever.

The author needs to get off his high horse and realize his vote is his own and others have the right to their vote, even if it is, shock, voting their conscience and values.

How does one mold a conscience that denies reality?


The primaries are over. The "other than Trump supporters" WERE a majority, but that is the way the game is played. Reality.

One of two candidates will swear the oath on Jan 20. Reality.

There is one ideologically pure candidate. Reality.

Not voting Trump lessens the work load and paves the path for the pure statist ideology candidate. Reality.

[bolobaby]

The Trumpettes and Trump have failed to win us over with actual qualifications, ideas, charisma, or principles.

So it's back to the old guilt and fear schtick.

[Bigun]

How does one mold a conscience that denies reality?


The primaries are over. The "other than Trump supporters" WERE a majority, but that is the way the game is played. Reality.

One of two candidates will swear the oath on Jan 20. Reality.

There is one ideologically pure candidate. Reality.

Not voting Trump lessens the work load and paves the path for the pure statist ideology candidate. Reality.

Whom do you suppose is denying reality?  Those of us who see Trump for who and what he is or those of you who are willing to close your eyes, hold your noses and ignore everything you see and hear because you are SCARED? 

[don-o]

Whom do you suppose is denying reality?  Those of us who see Trump for who and what he is or those of you who are willing to close your eyes, hold your noses and ignore everything you see and hear because you are SCARED?

Being scared of President Hillary is an indication that the basic human instinct for self-preservation is functional.

[aligncare]

How does one mold a conscience that denies reality?


The primaries are over. The "other than Trump supporters" WERE a majority, but that is the way the game is played. Reality.

One of two candidates will swear the oath on Jan 20. Reality.

There is one ideologically pure candidate. Reality.

Not voting Trump lessens the work load and paves the path for the pure statist ideology candidate. Reality.

Many folks are still quite butt hurt that Ted Cruz lost. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say that. I gotta be mindful of saying "butt hurt."

What I meant to say was many folks are still being intransigent after support for their choosen candidate collapsed.

You see, it's not that #NeverTrump is bitter. No. They're just consumed by a gnawing hate eating away their gut until they can taste the bile in their mouth. Well, I guess they are a little bitter. Either that or they're coming down with something.

Anyway, don't y'all feel better? I did take back that mean 'ol micro-aggression comment. 

[Bigun]

Being scared of President Hillary is an indication that the basic human instinct for self-preservation is functional.

So why would you vote for her chief enabler?  Trump and Hillary are just two slices out of the same cyanide laced pie! I'm not having any if you don't mind!

[sinkspur]

How does one mold a conscience that denies reality?


The primaries are over. The "other than Trump supporters" WERE a majority, but that is the way the game is played. Reality.

One of two candidates will swear the oath on Jan 20. Reality.

There is one ideologically pure candidate. Reality.

Not voting Trump lessens the work load and paves the path for the pure statist ideology candidate. Reality.

[sinkspur]

Many folks are still quite butt hurt that Ted Cruz lost. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say that. I gotta be mindful of saying "butt hurt."

What I meant to say was many folks are still being intransigent after support for their choosen candidate collapsed.

You see, it's not that #NeverTrump is bitter. No. They're just consumed by a gnawing hate eating away their gut until they can taste the bile in their mouth. Well, I guess they are a little bitter. Either that or they're coming down with something.

Anyway, don't y'all feel better? I did take back that mean 'ol micro-aggression comment. 

Intransigent?  No, we're being consistent.  We told you last September that we would never vote for Trump, in the primaries or in the general.  We told you the same in October, and November and every month since.

And we're not consumed by hate. We just can't live with crazy in the White House. And Trump is unhinged, unbalanced, an incorrigible liar, and an insulting vulgarian.  No person with those repulsive characteristics should even be allowed to VISIT the White House, much less occupy it.

So, here we are, in the situation we predicted months ago:  your boy is getting his head bashed in by the media, and he hands them the hammer every single day.  They've figured out they don't need him to do interviews; they get their ratings just by covering the latest outrage that spews out of his toilet mouth.

If you haven't figured out by now that Trump is going to lose, possibly historically, then you will very soon. 

But, don't be bitter.  We told you this was coming.

[Axel]

It's unfortunate that the OP decided to dignify the permanently aggrieved NeverTrump losers with this article. I personally don't care who they vote for and won't waste a second of my time trying to convince them they should vote for Trump. Anyone who is OK with Hillary taking office needs his/her head examined.

[XenaLee]

Not in My Name, NeverTrumpers

August 10, 2016
By Robert Oscar Lopez

Many of my close friends in the conservative movement are NeverTrumpers.  As a result, I find myself in an awkward position.  The NeverTrumpers are appealing to their conservative friends based on emotional claims that I recognize as false, deluded, and selfish.  One friend said, "Who wins the election does not matter as much as the need to vote one's conscience."  This statement is stunningly prideful and childish.  The voting booth is not a ride at Six Flags, and elections are not part of a consumer experiences.  The White House is not Burger King, where you get things your way.

Of course who wins the election is more important than your precious conscience or how you feel about voting.  Your country matters more than you do.  Has America become so weak and self-absorbed that people no longer understand what it means to say, "It's not all about you, honey"?

I guess that's why I could never be a libertarian.

Part of the impasse between me and NeverTrumper friends is that they have never actually sat down and listened to the full horrors that I endured firsthand, which make it undeniable to me that this election is about stopping Hillary Clinton and saving America.  Some games are won by offense, and others are won by defense; elections follow that pattern.  We have to vote against things sometimes.

I know that the dark side of a Clinton presidency would be not merely difficult, but also intolerable, and that Clinton as president would be incomparably more damaging than the likely flaws of a Trump presidency.  Clinton must be stopped at all costs.  We often say "at all costs" without understanding what the term means.  In this case, it means voting for Trump despite whatever shortfalls one sees in him, to save America.

more


http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/08/not_in_my_name_nevertrumpers.html

Question to Lopez:  Why should nevertrumpers take Trump's dismal, half-@ssed and lame campaign seriously.... when Trump himself doesn't?  Trump apparently sees this election bid as just another gambit, another deal, perhaps gone south....and what the hell, eh?  There's always another "deal" out there to be made by The Don.  Right?

"I think we're going to have victory but will see," Trump said. "At the end it's either going to work or I'm going to have a very very nice long vacation."

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-obama-absolutely-founded-isis/ar-BBvvzMW?li=BBnb7Kz

[XenaLee]

Many folks are still quite butt hurt that Ted Cruz lost. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say that. I gotta be mindful of saying "butt hurt."

What I meant to say was many folks are still being intransigent after support for their choosen candidate collapsed.

You see, it's not that #NeverTrump is bitter. No. They're just consumed by a gnawing hate eating away their gut until they can taste the bile in their mouth. Well, I guess they are a little bitter. Either that or they're coming down with something.

Anyway, don't y'all feel better? I did take back that mean 'ol micro-aggression comment. 

Yeah.....we get it.  That you Trump supporters (some of you, anyway) just can't get next to the idea of holding and standing by your principles.  You guys probably think that has something to do with high school....right?  But I digress.

Standing by your principles is what Cruz did and look where it got him.  So be it.  We will continue to do the same, no matter how many still do not 'get it'.  At least, in the end, we will have stood for something....instead of what you guys did and are still doing.

"If you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything" - Alexander Hamilton

[INVAR]

Wow, that is actually deluded and selfish. The author is claiming you must reject your own conscience values in order to get the outcome he wants, then to accuse those who do otherwise of being deluded and selfish? Sheesh.  If you don't vote your conscience and values, then you are only playing games. Not doing such is why we are in the position we are in now, facing the two worst, most corrupt, main party candidates we've seen in decades of if not ever.

The author needs to get off his high horse and realize his vote is his own and others have the right to their vote, even if it is, shock, voting their conscience and values.

I'm discovering that inside most members of the Trump Militant, is a despotic tyrant willing to crush the consciences and liberties of everyone else over their fears of Hillary, begging to punish in the most heinous and painful ways ( including killing us for 'treason') - everyone who does not vote for Trump.

They are no different than Hillary's rabid supporters, and one of the primary reasons why I refuse to vote for their prince.

[libertybele]

I guess I'm just one of those deluded, selfish people who still plans to vote my conscience; I remain #NeverTrump.

[catfish1957]

You see, it's not that #NeverTrump is bitter. No. They're just consumed by a gnawing hate eating away their gut until they can taste the bile in their mouth. Well, I guess they are a little bitter. Either that or they're coming down with something.

Bitter?....Tell that to your fellow cohort and Trump supporter (TOM-C) who sports a Penguin - Cruz meme icon for his account.  You sTrumpets need to realize that Ted left the campaign months ago.  I thought Hillary was your main opponent.  And he isn't the only one here fighting Cruz more than Hillary.

Me???? , I am looking forward to 2020.

[catfish1957]

I guess I'm just one of those deluded, selfish people who still plans to vote my conscience; I remain #NeverTrump.

Lot's of Trump supporters here have no principles if they truly consider themselves to be conservatives.

[beandog]

It's unfortunate that the OP decided to dignify the permanently aggrieved NeverTrump losers with this article. I personally don't care who they vote for and won't waste a second of my time trying to convince them they should vote for Trump. Anyone who is OK with Hillary taking office needs his/her head examined.

Well, that goodness.    I was really concerned that you cared who I voted for.  Now I feel so much better.  Anyone who is OK with either the Donald or Hillary taking office doesn't have a head to be examined.

[Dirt for sale]

Distillation of thread: Misery loves company. Liberals in drag want more cheerleaders to share in the defeat of their Trojan pig.
As Electric Six wrote, this is a game of losing and there is no winning.