Cruz, Kasich coordinate in new anti-Trump effort

[Free Vulcan]

Winner take all simply reflects the electoral college alignment. That IS part of Republican governance, and is in no way a corruption of the system. There is a constitutional precedent for winner-take-all that goes back to the founding.

On the other hand. A set of Byzantine delegate rules intended to steal delegates elected to support a voter's preferred candidate...to another candidate...is an entirely different animal. Comparisons of the two are deeply disingenous, because the delegate stealing is innately intended to override the will of voters...winner take all states simply reflect the Electoral College intention to protect the rights of voters in small states.

So, the only "hypocrisy" here is the disingenuous effort to compare apples to arugula...they are just two innately different things.

Again, bullcrap. While most states are WTA in electoral college, some are not. A few are by congressional district or popular vote percentage. States are not bound by WTA.

[Free Vulcan]

This has literally zero to do with selecting the GOP nominee.

 
Correct, and the voters who feel they are being ignored will react as they feel like reacting.  If the GOPe isn't obligated to listen to them, why should they lend their support to the GOPe?  Millions will feel ignored, and it's stupid to think there won't be many of them who just sit home instead of voting for the GOPe-approved candidate again, this time who is selecTED and no elecTED.

You anti-Trumps are playing such a short-sighted game through eyes blurred with tears of anger that you can't see what you're doing to Wile E. Cruz-yote's future chance as president.  He will never recover from what many GOP voters see as playing the elitist game while ignoring GOP voters.  You anti-Trumps keep bringing up the process; um, YEAH, that's exactly the problem and it amazes me that Cruz can't see how he has zero shot at winning when he will be lucky to end up with 25% of the GOP votes.  He is  perceived by millions of GOP voters who have cast their ballots for Trump as buying delegates, as opposed to earning them at the ballot box.  He has 2.3 million less votes than Trump, and that number is going to explode today.

Ignored? Even in Colorado, ANY REPUBLICAN

[HAPPY2BME]

Still Report #818 - Cruz Quickly Backstabs Kasich Over Treaty

[Mesaclone]

Again, bullcrap. While most states are WTA in electoral college, some are not. A few are by congressional district or popular vote percentage. States are not bound by WTA.

Who said they were bound. I said was an electoral tradition that goes by to our founding document.

[AnybodyButaDem]

Ignored? Even in Colorado, ANY REPUBLICAN

You obviously don't understand how some voters believe their votes are worthless, versus Sneaky Ted using the rules to his advantage but in doing so ignoring the will of the voter.

How you Cruz supporters think this will lead some sort of massive GOP support for Cruz is some sort of mass delusion.  People (well, some) plugged their noses and voted for McRomney because at least they reflected the will of the voter.  Wile E. Cruz-yote is viewed by millions of GOP voters who cares more about buying delegates than listening to the voice of the voter.  This is a fact, no matter the rules.  I'm a Raider fan, and I think the Tuck Rule was stupid.  But hey, it was the rule, so does that make it OK?

Cruz will get demolished in a general election against Clinton.  There is no way he can win. 

[Free Vulcan]

You obviously don't understand how some voters believe their votes are worthless, versus Sneaky Ted using the rules to his advantage but in doing so ignoring the will of the voter.

How you Cruz supporters think this will lead some sort of massive GOP support for Cruz is some sort of mass delusion.  People (well, some) plugged their noses and voted for McRomney because at least they reflected the will of the voter.  Wile E. Cruz-yote is viewed by millions of GOP voters who cares more about buying delegates than listening to the voice of the voter.  This is a fact, no matter the rules.  I'm a Raider fan, and I think the Tuck Rule was stupid.  But hey, it was the rule, so does that make it OK?

Cruz will get demolished in a general election against Clinton.  There is no way he can win.

Again, as I was saying, ANY REPUBLICAN in Colorado could have showed up to their caucus. Trump could have got his delegates to convention, but they didn't show.

And as @Bill Cipher pointed out, Trump also got delegates in WTA states that he didn't earn. In fact he's gotten about 10% more delegates than he's gotten votes, and he got almost all the delegates in NY even though they are twice that of Wisconsin and Missouri, yet Cruz got just as many votes in WI and MO as Trump.

What Trump wants, again, is to fly in the night before the primary on his jet, give a speech at a huge rally, win 40% of the vote, and get all the delegates, enforce by his pitchfork mob. There is no sneakyness here, just an inability for Trump to play by the rules, but wanting the rules to go his way.

Cruz has polled constistently better than Trump, repeatedly for months. Trump is the only one who can't beat Hillary.

[AnybodyButaDem]

Again, as I was saying, ANY REPUBLICAN in Colorado could have showed up to their caucus. Trump could have got his delegates to convention, but they didn't show.

And again, for the last time, that has nothing to do with GOP voters in CO feeling their voice wasn't heard.  I've also posted evidence from a precinct captain that there were no votes cast for President in their precinct, and only for delegates, who then were "persuaded" to align with Cruz.

The CO GOP has a real voter rebellion on their hands.  Again, following the rules (after changing them last August) is great, but the consequences of doing so when people don't like those rules is grave, and in this case, fatal to any hope Cruz had of winning CO in a general election. 

[Free Vulcan]

And again, for the last time, that has nothing to do with GOP voters in CO feeling their voice wasn't heard.  I've also posted evidence from a precinct captain that there were no votes cast for President in their precinct, and only for delegates, who then were "persuaded" to align with Cruz.

The CO GOP has a real voter rebellion on their hands.  Again, following the rules (after changing them last August) is great, but the consequences of doing so when people don't like those rules is grave, and in this case, fatal to any hope Cruz had of winning CO in a general election.

What stopped them from going to a caucus? Nothing. It was open to all registered Republicans.

And yet Trump has disproportionately benefited from the delegate process, particularly in NY. He doesn't seem to have a problem with their byzantine selection process though.

[Jazzhead]

Cruz will get demolished in a general election against Clinton.  There is no way he can win.

Is that your beef?   If so, then why the heck are you a Trump supporter?  He'll get blown out in the general, and unless you've got spit for brains, you know that.

So is your support merely to screw the GOP?   I say you're in the bag for Hillary, and your username's a false flag.   

[libertybele]

Is that your beef?   If so, then why the heck are you a Trump supporter?  He'll get blown out in the general, and unless you've got spit for brains, you know that.

So is your support merely to screw the GOP?   I say you're in the bag for Hillary, and your username's a false flag.

Jazz, save yourself some aggravation -- put him on 'ignore'.

[AnybodyButaDem]

What stopped them from going to a caucus? Nothing. It was open to all registered Republicans.

And yet Trump has disproportionately benefited from the delegate process, particularly in NY. He doesn't seem to have a problem with their byzantine selection process though.

Last time ... that's not the point!  Some of the Cruz supporters are as short-sighted in their thinking as is Sneaky Ted!

Also, NY allowed people to show up at the polls, and not somebody's living room, so the voters there didn't have to go through the hassle.

Cruz getting all 34 CO delegates in the manner he did, where even CO GOP leaders are considering a do-over, is the death of his political future on the national stage.  He's toast.  All he is doing now is digging a deeper hole and pissing off voters in PA.

[AnybodyButaDem]

Is that your beef?   If so, then why the heck are you a Trump supporter?  He'll get blown out in the general, and unless you've got spit for brains, you know that.

So is your support merely to screw the GOP?   I say you're in the bag for Hillary, and your username's a false flag.

Recent polling says otherwise.  Once he starts pointing out the Clinton corruption, I expect a fairly easy victory for President Trump.   

You know who is "screwing with the GOP?"  Supporters of losers like Cruz (who has to buy delegates, not earn them) and Kasich (no idea what this loser is doing still running as he will have turned off millions of GOP voters if he steals the nomination after winning only his home state).

Both Cruz and Kasich have poisoned their own well against GOP voters that millions will just sit home, and we will be left with Clinton as a 100% certainty. 

[Wingnut]

Jazz, save yourself some aggravation -- put him on 'ignore'.

I fear he (Not Jazz) is what Archie called someone when they were 'Dead, from the Neck up"

[AnybodyButaDem]

Jazz, save yourself some aggravation -- put him on 'ignore'.

Yes, just like Cruz and Kasich supporters are ignoring the reality that their candidates are unpopular to GOP voters at this point to the point of turning them against them, and unelectable in the general election.

You all seem great at ignoring things. 

[AnybodyButaDem]

I fear he (Not Jazz) is what Archie called someone when they were 'Dead, from the Neck up"

Your next substantive post will be your first that I've seen.

I'm wondering what that would look like.

[Free Vulcan]

Last time ... that's not the point!  Some of the Cruz supporters are as short-sighted in their thinking as is Sneaky Ted!

Also, NY allowed people to show up at the polls, and not somebody's living room, so the voters there didn't have to go through the hassle.

Cruz getting all 4 CO delegates in the manner he did, where even CO GOP leaders are considering a do-over, is the death of his political future on the national stage.  He's toast.  All he is doing now is digging a deeper hole and pissing off voters in PA.

And that's what Trump wants. Fly in the night before the primary, give a big speech at a big rally, schmooze with a few supporters, get the photo op, have the pitchfork mob of Republicans, Indies, and Democrats vote for him the next day for the Republican nom, and fly out never to be heard from till general election time. Plus get all the delegates disproportional to the actual vote.

This isn't a general election, it's a party process. It's representative, not a pure democracy, unless of course it's WTA and he wins, then Trump likes the delegate system. Too bad NY had twice as many delegates ad MO and WI, yet had far less votes cast. But that's ok because it works in Trump's favor. That's fair.

Trump loves the rules when he wins, hates them when he doesn't. He's a dealmaker, but whines when he can't make the deal, but loves when the deal goes his way.

This is not a 'Sneaky Cruz' problem, it's a Whiny Trump problem.

[Jazzhead]

You all seem great at ignoring things.

Are you ignoring every poll and survey that reveals the depth of hatred for Donald Trump,  and how even a weak candidate like Clinton will whip his blue-blood ass?   

Of course not - I know you're well aware of the polls.  So, I'll say it again - you're in the bag for Hillary, and you're posting here as a false flag. 

[Free Vulcan]

Yes, just like Cruz and Kasich supporters are ignoring the reality that their candidates are unpopular to GOP voters at this point to the point of turning them against them, and unelectable in the general election.

You all seem great at ignoring things.

Trump v. Clinton:

USA Today/Suffolk   4/20 - 4/24   1000 LV   3.0   50   39   Clinton +11
GWU/Battleground   4/17 - 4/20   1000 LV   3.1   46   43   Clinton +3
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl   4/10 - 4/14   1000 RV   3.1   50   39   Clinton +11
FOX News   4/11 - 4/13   1021 RV   3.0   48   41   Clinton +7
CBS News   4/8 - 4/12   1098 RV   3.0   50   40   Clinton +10
McClatchy/Marist   3/29 - 3/31   1066 RV   3.0   50   41   Clinton +9

Cruz v. Clinton:

USA Today/Suffolk   4/20 - 4/24   1000 LV   3.0   49   42   Clinton +7
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl   4/10 - 4/14   1000 RV   3.1   46   44   Clinton +2
FOX News   4/11 - 4/13   1021 RV   3.0   45   44   Clinton +1
CBS News   4/8 - 4/12   1098 RV   3.0   45   42   Clinton +3
McClatchy/Marist   3/29 - 3/31   1066 RV   3.0   47   47   Tie
IBD/TIPP   3/28 - 4/2   819 RV   3.5   44   39   Clinton +5

Kasich v. Clinton:

USA Today/Suffolk   4/20 - 4/24   1000 LV   3.0   46   41   Kasich +5
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl   4/10 - 4/14   1000 RV   3.1   51   39   Kasich +12
FOX News   4/11 - 4/13   1021 RV   3.0   49   40   Kasich +9
CBS News   4/8 - 4/12   1098 RV   3.0   47   41   Kasich +6
McClatchy/Marist   3/29 - 3/31   1066 RV   3.0   51   42   Kasich +9
IBD/TIPP   3/28 - 4/2   819 RV   3.5   45   38   Kasich +7

Bottom line is Cruz and Kasich poll better than Trump against Clinton. While I'm not the least bit of a Kasich fan, I have long conceded to @Jazzhead  that he polls best of the three. Of that there is no denial.

[Jazzhead]

While Cruz struggles in the polls as compared to Kasich,  he'll likely keep far more of the GOP coalition together than Trump would, and that can only help him in the fall.  That's reflected by the recent polls conducted on this board, showing that most of us will vote for Cruz if he's the nominee, while close to two-thirds of us will not vote for Trump if he's the nominee.

  As for all the "new voters" Trump is supposedly bringing to the GOP,  most are,  I believe,  low information voters or white identitarians who likely won't cross the line and vote for Clinton if someone other than Trump is the nominee.  Indeed, many will no doubt crawl back under the rocks from whence they came (remember,  some 40% of eligible voters stay home even in a Presidential election year; it's my firm belief that much of Trump's support comes from this historically disengaged or alienated group.)  It's also my belief that many of these Trump supporters have no loyalty to the GOP and are unlikely to vote Republican down the ticket.   

[AnybodyButaDem]

And that's what Trump wants. Fly in the night before the primary, give a big speech at a big rally, schmooze with a few supporters, get the photo op, have the pitchfork mob of Republicans, Indies, and Democrats vote for him the next day for the Republican nom, and fly out never to be heard from till general election time. Plus get all the delegates disproportional to the actual vote.

This is so laughably and demonstrably false that I think it's best if we don't bother engaging in conversation.  You clearly have a problem with the truth, and just look at Trump's campaign and rally schedule to see how wrong the above post is.

It's easy to hate someone when you're coming from a position of ignorance.  It actually explains a lot about your posts here.

[AnybodyButaDem]

Are you ignoring every poll and survey that reveals the depth of hatred for Donald Trump,  and how even a weak candidate like Clinton will whip his blue-blood ass?   

Of course not - I know you're well aware of the polls.  So, I'll say it again - you're in the bag for Hillary, and you're posting here as a false flag.

You mean yesterday's poll that has Trump within 3 points of Clinton?  He's closed the gap 14 points in a few months and the general campaign hasn't even happened.

You thinking Kasich is going to get widespread support from Republicans after barely winning his home state by begging for Democrat crossover votes is kind of funny, although I can see Trump maybe allowing Kasich as his VP if he does the right thing and drops out.  17% GOP nationally Kasich is embarrassing himself at this point.

[libertybele]

Bottom line is Cruz and Kasich poll better than Trump against Clinton. While I'm not the least bit of a Kasich fan, I have long conceded to Jazz that he polls best of the three. Of that there is no denial.

In every poll that is out there, they are showing Kasich faring the best against Clinton.  However, I can't help but wonder, if Kasich was indeed so popular, why then has he only won Ohio and only  a handful of delegates?  That screams to me that the polls are very skewed. Otherwise, the polls indicate that Kasich does well with moderates and DEMS. That's not saying much for Kasich as a conservative at all. Also, what the polls are actually showing are that liberals prefer Kasich over a candidate from their own party. 

At this point in time, I think I could live with a Kasich nomination over Trump, but Kasich leans way too much to the left and I'm afraid we'd have another 4 years of seeing the GOPe pander to the DEMS ... not exactly the hope I had when we had 16 hopeful candidates vying to be the GOP nominee.  Secondly, I'm not so sure that in getting Kasich as our nominee that we would keep the Senate and perhaps lose some House seats, especially if he picks someone like Bush or Romney as his VP.

[truth_seeker]

While Cruz struggles in the polls as compared to Kasich,  he'll likely keep far more of the GOP coalition together than Trump would, and that can only help him in the fall.  That's reflected by the recent polls conducted on this board, showing that most of us will vote for Cruz if he's the nominee, while close to two-thirds of us will not vote for Trump if he's the nominee.

  As for all the "new voters" Trump is supposedly bringing to the GOP,  most are,  I believe,  low information voters or white identitarians who likely won't cross the line and vote for Clinton if someone other than Trump is the nominee.  Indeed, many will no doubt crawl back under the rocks from whence they came (remember,  some 40% of eligible voters stay home even in a Presidential election year; it's my firm belief that much of Trump's support comes from this historically disengaged or alienated group.)  It's also my belief that many of these Trump supporters have no loyalty to the GOP and are unlikely to vote Republican down the ticket.   

Great to see some more of the elitist attitude, which has taken the candidates to where they are today.

Keep it up Jazz. You will likely get your chance to vote for Hillary, since Trump will prevail.

FWIW the most recent poll, of LV (not RV) has Trump and Hillary just 3 points apart, which indicates your entire premise may go away soon.

[AnybodyButaDem]

In every poll that is out there, they are showing Kasich faring the best against Clinton.  However, I can't help but wonder, if Kasich was indeed so popular, why then has he only won Ohio and only  a handful of delegates?  That screams to me that the polls are very skewed. Otherwise, the polls indicate that Kasich does well with moderates and DEMS. That's not saying much for Kasich as a conservative at all. Also, what the polls are actually showing are that liberals prefer Kasich over a candidate from their own party. 

At this point in time, I think I could live with a Kasich nomination over Trump, but Kasich leans way too much to the left and I'm afraid we'd have another 4 years of seeing the GOPe pander to the DEMS ... not exactly the hope I had when we had 16 hopeful candidates vying to be the GOP nominee.  Secondly, I'm not so sure that in getting Kasich as our nominee that we would keep the Senate and perhaps lose some House seats, especially if he picks someone like Bush or Romney as his VP.

If the GOPe wants to see millions of GOP voters sit out the election, therefore affecting down-ticket races as well, SELECT the guy who only won a single primary, which was his home state, and he begged Democrats to vote for him in that primary.

Kasich is the one pulling the party apart at the seams.  He should be out and letting Trump and Cruz see if either can get to 1237.  Instead, he's the guy nobody wants at the house party still trying to DJ the music as everybody has already moved on to a bar.

[HonestJohn]

I read your full linked article. Nothing in there mentions any kind of Rubio alliance with the Cruz-Kasich cabal. All it mentions is that "a GOP strategist who was once a Rubio supporter (not part of the campaign), helped facilitate the Cruz-Kasich deal.

So where are you getting that Rubio is "close" to a Cruz-Kasich deal? You certainly didn't find it in that article.

If you look around a bit more, you'll actually find more suggestions that a Trump-Rubio ticket is being whispered about behind closed doors...there's no room for three men in a Pres-Viceprez alliance so a Cruz-Kasich alliance leaves Rubio as the odd man out.

Rubio already said he is not interested in being VP... or in politics anymore.  He said this the day the rumor started.