Live Thread: War With Iran Continues #5

[Luis Gonzalez]

I guess if it is called an 'inalienable right', there really is no sense in having a treaty in the first place, eh?  Especially if there are no repercussions for violations.

Read The Last Wire today. It covers all that.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Read The Last Wire today. It covers all that.

Sorry, can you send a link?

[Luis Gonzalez]

Sorry, can you send a link?

It just posted... http://thelastwire.wordpress.com

[mystery-ak]

https://twitter.com/BuzzPatterson/status/2069759949249355917

[mystery-ak]

https://twitter.com/MOSSADil/status/2069805248122687861

[verga]

Your post has a problem: it asks people to ignore the historical record while claiming to defend it.

Yes, Islamic scholars inherited knowledge from Greeks, Persians, and Indians. So did virtually every civilization that came after them. The question is whether they merely copied it. The answer is no.

If they contributed nothing, why does algebra originate with the work of Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi? Why does the word “algorithm” come from his name? Why was Ibn al-Haytham correcting Greek theories of vision through experimentation centuries before the European scientific revolution? Why was Ibn Sina’s Canon of Medicine a standard text in European universities for hundreds of years?

As for the claim that Islamic architecture was built “mainly by Jewish slaves,” that’s not history. It’s an assertion in search of evidence. Major Islamic monuments were built by diverse craftsmen, engineers, and laborers drawn from the same mix of peoples that characterized every large empire of the era. If you have evidence for your claim, present it. Historians haven’t.

The irony is that you’re accusing others of brainwashing while repeating claims that collapse the moment they’re compared to primary sources and mainstream scholarship. Serious history recognizes that knowledge moved from Greece, Persia, India, the Islamic world, and Europe in a continuous chain of transmission and innovation.

Dismissing centuries of documented achievements because they don’t fit a preferred narrative isn’t rational skepticism. It’s ideology masquerading as history

@Luis Gonzalez I have pretty much accepted that @BobfromWB has absolutely ZERO credibility on any thing he says. Someone floated the idea that Iran might be able to dig out the nuclear material and this was refuted due to the location being "hotter than Chernobyl", Bobby said that in initial comment he said they could go in with remote controls vehicles of some sort.  When I reposted his comment showing that he has never said that he went radio silent. When I read his posts I just picture Biden, AOC, or Kamala yapping away.

[BobfromWB]

@Luis Gonzalez I have pretty much accepted that @BobfromWB has absolutely ZERO credibility on any thing he says. Someone floated the idea that Iran might be able to dig out the nuclear material and this was refuted due to the location being "hotter than Chernobyl", Bobby said that in initial comment he said they could go in with remote controls vehicles of some sort.  When I reposted his comment showing that he has never said that he went radio silent. When I read his posts I just picture Biden, AOC, or Kamala yapping away.

You'd think you never heard of remote controlled mining machines - very common mining tech. But then in your world anything that does not fit your narrative is "refuted".

BTW, 47 said only the US and China have the tech. China being an ally of Iran and having given them everything they need, except troops, could give them the proper tunneling machine, if they haven't already.

[verga]

You'd think you never heard of remote controlled mining machines - very common mining tech. But then in your world anything that does not fit your narrative is "refuted".

BTW, 47 said only the US and China have the tech. China being an ally of Iran and having given them everything they need, except troops, could give them the proper tunneling machine, if they haven't already.

Two choices Bobby: 1) Link to the exact post where you said "REMOTE controlled", prior to me pointing out your BS.
Or
2) STFU.
Seriously put up or shut up.

[Timber Rattler]

You'd think you never heard of remote controlled mining machines - very common mining tech. But then in your world anything that does not fit your narrative is "refuted".

BTW, 47 said only the US and China have the tech. China being an ally of Iran and having given them everything they need, except troops, could give them the proper tunneling machine, if they haven't already.

Yep, very common technology now...the Iranians can recover their nuclear equipment fairly quickly with Russian and ChiCom help.

Robotics: who are the leaders in robotic coal mining?

https://www.mining-technology.com/data-insights/robotics-innovation-leading-companies-in-robotic-coal-mining/

The mining industry continues to be a hotbed of innovation. Activity is driven by safety, productivity and cost control. Robots are designed to increase mine safety by preventing mine accidents that are relatively frequent in underground coal mines. Robotics, integrated with Artificial Intelligence and Internet of Things, can help mining companies develop technologically sound mining infrastructure that can enhance safety and improve accessibility. In the last three years alone, there have been over 48,000 patents filed and granted in the mining industry, according to GlobalData’s report on Robotics in Mining: Robotic Coal Mining

[BobfromWB]

Yep, very common technology now...the Iranians can recover their nuclear equipment fairly quickly with Russian and ChiCom help.

Robotics: who are the leaders in robotic coal mining?

https://www.mining-technology.com/data-insights/robotics-innovation-leading-companies-in-robotic-coal-mining/

That verga has got quite the mouth on him - a TOS trouble maker come here perhaps.

[Luis Gonzalez]

@Luis Gonzalez I have pretty much accepted that @BobfromWB has absolutely ZERO credibility on any thing he says. Someone floated the idea that Iran might be able to dig out the nuclear material and this was refuted due to the location being "hotter than Chernobyl", Bobby said that in initial comment he said they could go in with remote controls vehicles of some sort.  When I reposted his comment showing that he has never said that he went radio silent. When I read his posts I just picture Biden, AOC, or Kamala yapping away.

 

[GtHawk]

That verga has got quite the mouth on him - a TOS trouble maker come here perhaps.

Hmmm, am I seeing a case of projection here?

[Luis Gonzalez]

OK. Let’s try settling this. You all truly need to embrace enhanced search engines.

Here’s the grounded version without the noise.

Yes—Iran can physically reach and recover material from a buried, collapsed underground facility without external help. That’s not speculation; that’s basic tunneling and mining capability. Iran already has the equipment, engineers, and experience to cut into mountains, stabilize collapsed tunnels, and run heavy excavation operations. None of that requires foreign contractors.

Robotics doesn’t change the core answer either—it just improves safety and reach. Mine-rescue robots, remote drills, mapping systems, and borehole probes already exist and are used in far worse environments than nuclear sites. But they only work if you can create access. The limiting factor is always the same: can you physically open or re-open a path into the structure?

Also, a lot of people overstate the radiation angle. Enrichment facilities like Fordow are not reactor cores. The problem is contamination and debris, not catastrophic radiation fields that make entry impossible. That difference matters a lot when people start talking about “impossible zones.”

Where things get messy is scale and time. Even if access is possible, you’re talking about collapsed rock, unknown voids, unstable tunnels, and possibly multiple entry points to chase. That’s months to years of engineering work, not a quick recovery mission.

So the clean way to put it is this:

* Physically possible without external help → yes
* Technically straightforward or fast → no
* Dependent on robotics → only partially (robots help, but don’t solve access)
* Equivalent to “can’t be done” → definitely incorrect

The real argument isn’t whether Iran can do it. It’s how long it takes, how much survives intact, and whether recovery is meaningful enough to matter strategically afterward.

[verga]

That verga has got quite the mouth on him - a TOS trouble maker come here perhaps.

Bobby, I see you still refusing to Put up or shut up.
Either document that you made the claim tol drill using robotics before I (and several others) called you out on your BS ro STFU.
BTW I have been here since the middle of May 2009 and was personally invited by Nancy. Since you have been here only about 15 months you are the Bobbly come lately.
@BobfromWB

[mystery-ak]

‘He named names’: Trump’s Senate meeting explodes into shouting match over Iran
Sen Bill Cassidy demanded answers on the war's progress, sparking what one source called a '7 out of 10' confrontation
By Alex Miller , Tyler Olson Fox News

President Donald Trump's meeting with Senate Republicans might have been meant to find a way to pass voter ID and citizenship verification legislation, but it devolved into a tense shouting match over the war in Iran.

Tensions among Senate Republicans were already simmering with Trump over his last-minute decision to nuke the 21st Century Road to Housing Act, a bipartisan housing package filled with his priorities that the GOP viewed as an easy win to sell to voters in the upcoming midterm elections.

Trump described the closed-door affair in a positive light afterward.

"I think we had a really great meeting, and we're very proud of the party," he said. "We like our leader. We like everybody, really, in the room. I don't like a few people, but that's okay. I think you know who they are."

What started as a push to pass Safeguarding American Voter Eligibility (SAVE) America Act transformed into Trump railing against Republicans for allowing a war powers resolution handcuffing his authorities in Iran to pass on Tuesday.

And that spurred a confrontation with Sen. Bill Cassidy, R-La., who Trump campaigned against and defeated earlier this year.

"He asked, ‘why would anybody vote for the War Powers Act?’," Cassidy said afterward. "As he continued, I said, ‘is that a rhetorical question, or would you like to really know?’ He said, ‘I'd like to know.’"

more
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/he-named-names-trumps-senate-meeting-explodes-into-shouting-match-over-iran

[mystery-ak]

https://twitter.com/EYakoby/status/2069604455784284171

[IsailedawayfromFR]

OK. Let’s try settling this. You all truly need to embrace enhanced search engines.

Here’s the grounded version without the noise.

Yes—Iran can physically reach and recover material from a buried, collapsed underground facility without external help. That’s not speculation; that’s basic tunneling and mining capability. Iran already has the equipment, engineers, and experience to cut into mountains, stabilize collapsed tunnels, and run heavy excavation operations. None of that requires foreign contractors.

Robotics doesn’t change the core answer either—it just improves safety and reach. Mine-rescue robots, remote drills, mapping systems, and borehole probes already exist and are used in far worse environments than nuclear sites. But they only work if you can create access. The limiting factor is always the same: can you physically open or re-open a path into the structure?

Also, a lot of people overstate the radiation angle. Enrichment facilities like Fordow are not reactor cores. The problem is contamination and debris, not catastrophic radiation fields that make entry impossible. That difference matters a lot when people start talking about “impossible zones.”

Where things get messy is scale and time. Even if access is possible, you’re talking about collapsed rock, unknown voids, unstable tunnels, and possibly multiple entry points to chase. That’s months to years of engineering work, not a quick recovery mission.

So the clean way to put it is this:

* Physically possible without external help → yes
* Technically straightforward or fast → no
* Dependent on robotics → only partially (robots help, but don’t solve access)
* Equivalent to “can’t be done” → definitely incorrect

The real argument isn’t whether Iran can do it. It’s how long it takes, how much survives intact, and whether recovery is meaningful enough to matter strategically afterward.

What you missed is he responded on the usage of tunneling machines when I pointed out that a nuclear bomb over the site would render it inaccessible for many years.

Do you still believe that the radiation levels from a dirty bomb(s) placed over the site would still not be a catastrophic radiation field vs whatever radiation the current site might have?

[IsailedawayfromFR]

@Luis Gonzalez I have pretty much accepted that @BobfromWB has absolutely ZERO credibility on any thing he says. Someone floated the idea that Iran might be able to dig out the nuclear material and this was refuted due to the location being "hotter than Chernobyl", Bobby said that in initial comment he said they could go in with remote controls vehicles of some sort.  When I reposted his comment showing that he has never said that he went radio silent. When I read his posts I just picture Biden, AOC, or Kamala yapping away.

[Timber Rattler]

A source familiar with the meeting said that Trump was "very animated" over the war powers vote because it hurt the administration’s negotiating position with Iran, and that he "named names" of the Republicans who voted with Democrats, including Sen. Dave McCormick, R-Pa., who was absent from the vote because he was with the president at an event in Pennsylvania.

How stupid.

[Smokin Joe]

You'd think you never heard of remote controlled mining machines - very common mining tech. But then in your world anything that does not fit your narrative is "refuted".

BTW, 47 said only the US and China have the tech. China being an ally of Iran and having given them everything they need, except troops, could give them the proper tunneling machine, if they haven't already.

Drilling into that mess down there is one thing. We routinely drill holes into things that turn out to be more than we bargained for.
Cleaning up after all those centrifuges spinning at 50,000 RPM got bounced by the bombing is another. They weren't enriching ordinary ore, but 60% enriched material. It's going to be hot down there, and I don't mean just thermally. And that doesn't even deal with flammability or the fact that Uranium is a heavy metal poison. Maybe the Mullahs can train suicide monkeys or put AI in a squadron of Roombas to recover that mess.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Do you still believe that the radiation levels from a dirty bomb(s) placed over the site would still not be a catastrophic radiation field vs whatever radiation the current site might have?

Do I still believe that?

I don’t know hang I ever did.

[BobfromWB]

Bobby, I see you still refusing to Put up or shut up.
Either document that you made the claim tol drill using robotics before I (and several others) called you out on your BS ro STFU.
BTW I have been here since the middle of May 2009 and was personally invited by Nancy. Since you have been here only about 15 months you are the Bobbly come lately.
@BobfromWB

 

[Timber Rattler]

Bobby, I see you still refusing to Put up or shut up.
Either document that you made the claim tol drill using robotics before I (and several others) called you out on your BS ro STFU.
BTW I have been here since the middle of May 2009 and was personally invited by Nancy. Since you have been here only about 15 months you are the Bobbly come lately.
@BobfromWB

You do know that industrial scale automated drills do exist, right?

For example...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RorYyXsRdzI

Tunnelers too...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z59ea6iwEns


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6VeSSZAY6E

[verga]

You do know that industrial scale automated drills do exist, right?

For example...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RorYyXsRdzI

Tunnelers too...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z59ea6iwEns


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6VeSSZAY6E

I do, absolutely. Ole Bobby was was talking about sending workers in to get he previously enriched uranium. he doesn't understand the effects of that much radiation on a human body.

[BobfromWB]

I do, absolutely. Ole Bobby was was talking about sending workers in to get he previously enriched uranium. he doesn't understand the effects of that much radiation on a human body.

 

[Timber Rattler]

I do, absolutely. Ole Bobby was was talking about sending workers in to get he previously enriched uranium. he doesn't understand the effects of that much radiation on a human body.

Well DuPont makes protective suits for such things...

https://www.dupont.com/personal-protection/nuclear-protective-clothing.html

There's Demron too...

https://www.radshield.com/pages/demron

[mystery-ak]

Lebanon’s government is speaking with Israel directly ‘for first time in 30 years,’ Rubio says

Secretary of State Marco Rubio said Thursday that “for the first time in 30 years, the sovereign government of Lebanon is speaking to the government of Israel directly.”

Rubio made the comment as negotiations between Israel and Lebanon are unfolding in Washington this week. He said Wednesday that Lebanon and its military needs “to be able to control and secure more and more of their own territory, because that's who needs to control Lebanese territory, not a terrorist group like Hezbollah.”

"Today will be the third day of three days of talks between the Lebanese authorities and the Israeli authorities. I think we had a very good day yesterday. I think we are very close in our hopes of getting a commitment of intent between the two countries that I think begin to outline a promising future,” Rubio said Thursday.

“It'll be a process. It will take some time. It will take a lot of work. But I can tell you that for the first time in 30 years, the sovereign government of Lebanon is speaking to the government of Israel directly,” Rubio continued.

“That's who we're going to be negotiating with. That's what we're going to be working with, not Hezbollah. Hezbollah is not the government of Lebanon. Lebanon has a government. It has democratically elected leaders,” Rubio also said. “They have the sovereign right to speak and defend the interests of the Lebanese people. And what we want for Lebanon is a peaceful future. That's what everyone wants here.”
Posted by Greg Norman-Diamond

[ChemEngrMBA]

New Jersey Democrat Senator Cory Booker is badmouthing Trump and Netyanhu, giving aid and comfort to the enemy and fellow Democrats in the same way Jane Fonda did during the Vietnam War.  Booker is a traitor who should be prosecuted and removed from the senate.

[mystery-ak]

Iranian negotiator says 'only crop we're harvesting' from US is 'decades of mistrust'

Iran’s hardline parliament speaker and key negotiator Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf pushed back Thursday after President Donald Trump said unfrozen Iranian assets would be used to buy American crops for the benefit of the Iranian people.

Trump said Wednesday that "We will be releasing some of their money, that is totally controlled by us, to our Farmers and Ranchers, for the purchase of Corn, Wheat, Soybeans, and more," and that "Food is desperately needed in Iran, and we will be purchasing it for them exclusively from the United States.”

Ghalibaf responded Thursday by saying "America falsely claims our unfrozen assets will buy their agriculture. Interesting."

"The only crop we're harvesting is what you planted: decades of mistrust. It's organic, abundant, and homegrown. But apparently the U.S. only exports GMO soybeans, broken promises and trash talks," he added on X.
Posted by Greg Norman-Diamond

[Idiot]

You do know that industrial scale automated drills do exist, right?

For example...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RorYyXsRdzI

Tunnelers too...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z59ea6iwEns


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6VeSSZAY6E

Wasn't it reported that the Iranian tunnels were in granite?  If so, probably a bit hard for these machines.

[Cyber Liberty]

Iranian negotiator says 'only crop we're harvesting' from US is 'decades of mistrust'

Iran’s hardline parliament speaker and key negotiator Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf pushed back Thursday after President Donald Trump said unfrozen Iranian assets would be used to buy American crops for the benefit of the Iranian people.

Trump said Wednesday that "We will be releasing some of their money, that is totally controlled by us, to our Farmers and Ranchers, for the purchase of Corn, Wheat, Soybeans, and more," and that "Food is desperately needed in Iran, and we will be purchasing it for them exclusively from the United States.”

Ghalibaf responded Thursday by saying "America falsely claims our unfrozen assets will buy their agriculture. Interesting."

"The only crop we're harvesting is what you planted: decades of mistrust. It's organic, abundant, and homegrown. But apparently the U.S. only exports GMO soybeans, broken promises and trash talks," he added on X.
Posted by Greg Norman-Diamond

Fine!  Then starve.

[BobfromWB]

Wasn't it reported that the Iranian tunnels were in granite?  If so, probably a bit hard for these machines.

Do you believe the Iranian tunnels were dug by hand then? Or do the Iranians posses some magical tech that surpasses any Western tunneling machines which somehow decades ago managed to tunnel through granite to create Cheyenne Mountain Complex?

[Cyber Liberty]

Do you believe the Iranian tunnels were dug by hand then? Or do the Iranians posses some magical tech that surpasses any Western tunneling machines which somehow decades ago managed to tunnel through granite to create Cheyenne Mountain Complex?

Dynomite has existed since 1867.

[Hoodat]

To all those here involved in the feasibility of the IRGC recovering its uranium stockpiles:

Here's the rub.  The IRGC had two courses of action:

1.  Allow the US to come in and take possession of their bombed out storage locations

2.  Convince the US that there was no need for them to take possession


The IRGC has chosen option 2 by announcing they have bombed out and closed off all the tunnels (which I personally do not believe).  Option 2 will be the more difficult for them because it is not nearly as provable as Option 1.  The primary reason they would have chosen this option is because they hold out hope that the nuclear materials are recoverable.  Now one may argue that its too hot or that workers risk radiation poisoning.  But that is not a concern for the IRGC.  The only thing they care about is recovering those materials.   And Option 2 is the only option where this is possible.

[BobfromWB]

Dynomite has existed since 1867.

Oh well! No American ever thought of using dynamite!! Aren't those Iranians ingenious! We are stuck using tunneling machines ... perhaps the MOU will include the magical Iranians giving us some dynamite, eh?

[Wingnut]

Do you believe the Iranian tunnels were dug by hand then? Or do the Iranians posses some magical tech that surpasses any Western tunneling machines which somehow decades ago managed to tunnel through granite to create Cheyenne Mountain Complex?

Maybe the brought in a few Horta's from Janis VI. 

[Luis Gonzalez]

Maybe the brought in a few Horta's from Janis VI.

Maybe they used Jewish slaves, like that Warren guy says. 

[Hoodat]

Maybe the brought in a few Horta's from Janis VI.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Iranian tunnel digging team in action.

[Cyber Liberty]

Oh well! No American ever thought of using dynamite!! Aren't those Iranians ingenious! We are stuck using tunneling machines ... perhaps the MOU will include the magical Iranians giving us some dynamite, eh?

You're floundering.  That's the sound of chickens coming home to roost!

[bigheadfred]

unusual_whales
@unusual_whales
·
1h
BREAKING: Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps attacked a Singapore-flagged cargo ship, per WSJ

[Hoodat]

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24

BREAKING:

The Islamic Regime in Iran has struck a cargo vessel with a off the coast of Oman in the Hormuz Strait.

The attack comes after Tehran issued a warning to vessels not to sail in the new corridor in the Hormuz Strait announced by Oman.



11:13 AM  ·  Jun 25, 2026  ·  57.9K Views

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/2070178534530650498

[mystery-ak]

https://twitter.com/EricLDaugh/status/2070227004230668788

[mystery-ak]

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/2070233416260280494

[Luis Gonzalez]

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/2070233416260280494

They need to get those crews out before the Somalis eat them.

[Hoodat]

C14 News | EN
@c14english

🚨🇺🇸🇮🇷 Donald Trump and J.D. Vance’s proposal to unfreeze funds for Iranian food aid has backfired. Iranian citizens are rejecting the offer. Their message is clear: the struggle is for freedom, not bread. They want to overthrow a dictatorship, not receive charity.

📷 IranIntl



3:24 AM  ·  Jun 24, 2026  ·  44K Views

https://x.com/c14english/status/2069698152559423561

[Hoodat]

OSINTdefender
@sentdefender

The UN’s shipping agency, the International Maritime Organization (IMO) has stated that it is temporarily halting efforts begun last Tuesday to evacuate stranded sailors and ships in the Strait of Hormuz, following an Iranian drone attack earlier today on a commercial shipping vessel off the coast of Oman.

The Omani Route:

https://twitter.com/FaytuksNetwork/status/2070178271073865739

[Luis Gonzalez]

unusual_whales
@unusual_whales
·
1h
BREAKING: Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps attacked a Singapore-flagged cargo ship, per WSJ

The IRCG was born from the Islamic Revolution, and has been preparing and waiting for this fight since then.

[Wingnut]

unusual_whales
@unusual_whales
·
1h
BREAKING: Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps attacked a Singapore-flagged cargo ship, per WSJ

I'm sure it was just a simple misunderstanding.  Nothing serious.  Let the Memorandum of Understanding stand.

[Cyber Liberty]

I'm sure it was just a simple misunderstanding.  Nothing serious.  Let the Memorandum of Understanding stand.

That's my guess.  We can't have the grand MOU be upset, you know....