Israel approves plan to capture all of Gaza, calls up tens of thousands of reserve troops: report

[Hoodat]

True.  But the highest class of citizenship is reserved for .  .  .

So we're talking citizenship v. never-under-any-circumstance-a-citizen.  Got it.

[Canuck Conservative]

Simple test:  If the conversation is honest both sides will feel uncomfortable

"Uncomfortableness" has nothing to do with honesty ... you can make someone uncomfortable just by asking creepy sexual questions

Better measurements of honesty are - Do people do what they promised? Do their words and actions match?

For example, Hamas signed a legal agreement promising to release all its hostages ... since they reneged on that, we now see them as dishonest and untrustworthy

Similarly, Putin "claims" to want Peace, yet constantly attacks Ukraine ... so, that mis-match between his words and actions tells us that Russia is lying when they say they want Peace

[verga]

Level gaza and drive the palis out (again, Somalia would be a good location for them).
EVERYONE removed and gone.

Grind everything that remains down to sand.
Leave it that way for 30-40 years.

Then annex it to Israel and turn it into their "southwestern garden"...

Ding ding doing we have a winner no more calls. Exactly right.

[Right_in_Virginia]

"Uncomfortableness" has nothing to do with honesty ... you can make someone uncomfortable just by asking creepy sexual questions

Better measurements of honesty are - Do people do what they promised? Do their words and actions match?

For example, Hamas signed a legal agreement promising to release all its hostages ... since they reneged on that, we now see them as dishonest and untrustworthy

You're just presenting the same PR script wrapped in different paper @Canuck Conservative   

A truly honest discussion about the Israeli/Palestinian ongoing conflict would, indeed, make people uncomfortable --- because it would have to also include the issues Israel has reneged on, lied about and whether or not we now see them as dishonest and untrustworthy.  Right of return would be a good place to begin an honest discussion ---- it has been bleeding all over the Middle East for generations.

[Right_in_Virginia]

So we're talking citizenship v. never-under-any-circumstance-a-citizen.  Got it.

No, I don't think you get it.  The problem for Israel is the religious apartheid lurking behind the Nation State bill. 

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Spending all this resource and loss of lives on both sides is terrible.

Israel should have never surrendered Gaza in the first place as it was a model of organization and productivity before handing it over.

[berdie]

Israel has had control of the Gaza Strip for decades.   How's it working out?

@Right_in_Virginia

I would disagree about who has controlled Gaza "for decades". But it really doesn't surprise me that you and I would be on opposite sides of the fence on this.

But looking at things, would the Palis be better off under a prosperous nation or a group of terrorists? They can't continue as they are. And no other Arab country is willing to help or take them in.

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia

But looking at things, would the Palis be better off under a prosperous nation or a group of terrorists? They can't continue as they are. And no other Arab country is willing to help or take them in.

Why @berdie , are the Palestinian leaders called "a group of terrorists"? 

Methinks the whole of the Middle East would have been better off if the Palestinians could have formed their own nation state in their own homeland --- or if Israel had formally annexed the territory, with the people living in it.

Lastly, it's true the Arab world is not willing to help or take in the Palestinians.  This reaction is not new ---- the world witnessed a similar reaction when Western nations were not willing to help or take in Jewish Europeans in the 1930s and 1940s.

[240B]

Why, are the Palestinian leaders called "a group of terrorists"? 

Methinks the whole of the Middle East would have been better off if the Palestinians could have formed their own nation state in their own homeland --- or if Israel had formally annexed the territory, with the people living in it.

Because they ARE terrorists. To their own people and to their Arab neighbors they are terrorists.

It is my opinion that your view of the situation is naïve and lacking in knowledge. Not saying that as an insult at all. That is just my opinion. These things that you say, these beautiful revelations have all been said hundreds of times before by hundreds of Israeli citizens and diplomats. Some of them have even been tried and failed.

Look. The absolute bottom line is that the so-called Palestinians DO NOT WANT PEACE. There is no way Israel can 'force' peace on them if they refuse to accept it. They would rather die than to accept any peace with Israel under ANY circumstances or compromises.

Shimon Preres and Ehud Barak (along with many others) read the PLO Charter in detail. They offered Arafat every single thing he claimed to want as a Palestinian Leader. Arafat played around, delayed and stalled, hemmed and hawed, and eventually rejected the offer. Arafat rejected the offer of EVERYTHING he claimed to want.

He did this because the Palestinian Goal is not peace or an independent State. The only goal of the Palestinian movement is the destruction and conquest of all of Israel. And that is only the beginning. If they were ever able conquer Israel, they would take time to stabilize and to build up arms then they would immediately attack Lebanon and Jordan. The Palestinian mindset is incompatible with peace. They do not understand it and they do not want it. If they did, this entire situation would have been solved 50 years ago.

[cato potatoe]

Level gaza and drive the palis out (again, Somalia would be a good location for them).
EVERYONE removed and gone.

Grind everything that remains down to sand.
Leave it that way for 30-40 years.

Then annex it to Israel and turn it into their "southwestern garden"...

I do wish the people who favor ethnic cleansing would be more forthright, like this.  The arab world is going to object, but it's far preferable to starving the Gazans to death, as reverend Huckabee suggested, or burying them alive as is the preferred method of the likudniks. 

Within a few years, the United States will be expected to offer asylum to the Palestinians, rebuild Gaza for the Palestinians, or pay the arab neighbors to absorb the population.  They can be bought.  We already pay the surrounding countries to play nice with Israel.  If this is unbearable, then I'd like to know what conservatives expect to happen.  Two million people can't live in tents while the Israelis blockade food supplies and periodically go in and shoot up the place.  It's a humanitarian disaster. 

[Wingnut]

It's a humanitarian disaster.

One of their own making.  Sorry. Not sorry.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Because they ARE terrorists. To their own people and to their Arab neighbors they are terrorists.

Everyone is a terrorist at one time or another, according to Israel.  Otherwise, they're partners.

Hamas has long been an Israeli partner made possible through Israel's authorization to keep billions flowing to Hamas through Qatar--- a scheme to support Netanyahu and his Likud Party's obsessive need to keep the West Bank and the Gaza Strip from forming one nation state. 

Many believe nothing that happened in the Gaza Strip surprised the Netanyahu regime --- not the tunnels (called "the Hamas Metro"),  not the military build up, not the plans for Oct. 7.

But, Netanyahu chose badly --- the opportunity for military action and settlement expansion in the West Bank were so attractive to Netanyahu that he became over-confident that the Hamas attack would be minor, if at all.   Classic hubris.

Now Hamas is publicly rechristened "terrorists", the money transfers and leverage have dried up and Netanyahu must keep killing to save the one hide that matters most to him.

Look. The absolute bottom line is that the so-called Palestinians DO NOT WANT PEACE. There is no way Israel can 'force' peace on them if they refuse to accept it. They would rather die than to accept any peace with Israel under ANY circumstances or compromises.

The US and Israel would have been better off these past 35 years if SOS Baker's clarion call had been implemented as US policy in 1990:

But Baker's sharpest words were reserved for Shamir. He said the failure last March of an 11-month U.S. effort to bring about an Israeli-Palestinian dialogue and the subsequent collapse of Israel's broad-based unity government were primarily the fault of Shamir's hard-line refusal to accept what the United States regarded as reasonable compromises.

He also expressed concern that Shamir's new government, which took office Monday after three months of political deadlock in Israel, is composed of elements unwilling to make any meaningful gestures toward dialogue with the Palestinian inhabitants of Israeli-occupied territories.

Before coming to yesterday's hearing, Baker said, he had seen reports quoting officials of the new government as saying that the U.S. plan for dialogue no longer was relevant and listing conditions that the Palestinians must accept in advance of any talks.

"Now if that's going to be the approach, and if that's going to be the attitude, there won't be any dialogue, and there won't be any peace, and the United States of America can't make it happen. You can't, I can't, the president can't," he said. "And so, it's going to take some really good-faith affirmative effort on the part of our good friends in Israel."

And "If we don't get it, and we can't get it quickly, I have to tell you . . . that everybody over there should know that the telephone number is 1-202-456-1414. When you're serious about peace, call us."

More:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1990/06/14/baker-says-israel-must-compromise/49371de6-8137-48cb-996f-9af3177c2d63/

[DefiantMassRINO]

There's a reason Egypt and Jordan won't take them ... they are a disruptive, terrorist enclave that would force Israeli reprisals upon their countries for acts of terror committed by Palestinian Arabs.

Jordan would prefer they stay on the West Bank so they remain Israel's problem.  Egypt would prefer they stay in Gaza so they remain Israel's problem.

The Palestinian Arabs won't accept defeat, won't accept Israel's right to exist, and they will continue to be agitators in the region.  Destroying Israel is their raison d'être.

[MeganC]

This is why the Palestinian Arabs can't have nice things - they spend all the International Aid money on rockets and tunnels.

That's what the aid was really for all along.

[Timber Rattler]

Now Hamas is publicly rechristened "terrorists", the money transfers and leverage have dried up and Netanyahu must keep killing to save the one hide that matters most to him.

What are you babbling about?  Hamas has ALWAYS been a terrorist organization, just like FATAH, the PLO, the PFLP, Hezbollah, Black September, etc, etc...

Remember when Hamas was using children as suicide bombers to blow up Israelis in the 1990s?

[240B]

That's what the aid was really for all along.

You have a very bizarre point of view concerning Israel. I do not agree with a word of it, but it is unique in the sense that I have never heard anything like it before. Hamas and Netanyahu are in some kind of partnership to promote terrorism against Israel?

Points for originality ... that is way out there. Hamas has always been called terrorists since their beginning. They call themselves terrorists as does most of the world. Hamas being terrorists has nothing to do with Netanyahu and does not depend on his approval of the term. Hamas does not depend on Netanyahu to support them. They have Iran for that.

You would fit in nicely with Harvard and Columbia.

[Right_in_Virginia]

The Palestinian Arabs won't accept defeat, won't accept Israel's right to exist, and they will continue to be agitators in the region.  Destroying Israel is their raison d'être.

Again left off this    list of Palestinian motivations is:  the Palestinian Arabs want out of the open air prison Israel has locked them in until death, however delivered, frees them.

[Right_in_Virginia]

What are you babbling about?  Hamas has ALWAYS been a terrorist organization, just like FATAH, the PLO, the PFLP, Hezbollah, Black September, etc, etc...

"Terrorist" is a fluid definition for the Netanyahu regime.  Rule of thumb:  When Mossad agents are transporting cash filled suitcases from Qatar through Israel to Hamas in Gaza, the "terrorist" is dropped.   
 

[240B]

"Terrorist" is a fluid definition for the Netanyahu regime.  Rule of thumb:  When Mossad agents are transporting cash filled suitcases from Qatar through Israel to Hamas in Gaza, the "terrorist" is dropped.

@Right_in_Virginia

Please tell me where you got this info. I do not believe it, but I would very much like to read whatever you guys are reading. lol

[bigheadfred]

Again left off this    list of Palestinian motivations is:  the Palestinian Arabs want out of the open air prison Israel has locked them in until death, however delivered, frees them.

Complete, total, and utter horseshit.

[berdie]

Again left off this    list of Palestinian motivations is:  the Palestinian Arabs want out of the open air prison Israel has locked them in until death, however delivered, frees them.

They are in an "open air prison" because of Hamas and the inability to find a decent leader. Let's face it...they sit on some prime real estate. If properly administered, the international aid they have  received could have them in a very positive position. Not building tunnels and buying weapons. Maybe, just maybe, they could have built their own infrastructure and wouldn't have to rely on Isreal. Maybe, just maybe, they could accept and realize that Isreal is a country and start sweeping around their own front door and prosper.

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia

Please tell me where you got this info. I do not believe it, but I would very much like to read whatever you guys are reading. lol

From the Israeli presses.  I posted multiple articles and links at least five or six times back when the war started. Those threads are still available.  @240B

FWIW, one of the reasons Netanyahu is still hellbent on war is he's convinced his political allies that no investigation/public hearing into the lead-up to Oct 7 can begin with soldiers still fighting.  Bibi's running as fast as he can.

[Right_in_Virginia]

They are in an "open air prison" because of Hamas and the inability to find a decent leader.

There's a school of thought @berdie that the continuing Israeli/Palestinian conflict boils down to demographics and birthrates: Arabs are prolific, Jewish Israelis are not.

Israel wants the territory, but would lose the struggle to keep Jews the majority in Israel if the territories were annexed with the indigenous people living there.  Without a Jewish majority, there is no Jewish State of Israel.

This school of thought goes on to postulate the Palestinians are living in an open air prison because Israel can't decide whether to ethnically cleanse them or ethnically eliminate them.  What upsets me most about this is the US, the last bastion of freedom and justice, has apparently grown comfortable with either.

[240B]

From the Israeli presses.  I posted multiple articles and links at least five or six times back when the war started. Those threads are still available.  @240B

FWIW, one of the reasons Netanyahu is still hellbent on war is he's convinced his political allies that no investigation/public hearing into the lead-up to Oct 7 can begin with soldiers still fighting.  Bibi's running as fast as he can.

OK. Please provide one link and I can research more from there.

[Timber Rattler]

From the Israeli presses.  I posted multiple articles and links at least five or six times back when the war started.

You did no such thing.