Ukraine 6

[txradioguy]

The propaganda from both sides is tiresome.

[libertybele]

The propaganda from both sides is tiresome.

Indeed it is!

[Canuck Conservative]

The propaganda from both sides is tiresome

Please provide us with an example of "Ukrainian propaganda"

[txradioguy]

Please provide us with an example of "Ukrainian propaganda"

Social media is rife with it.  Reading the social media posts listed here that I've read are pure propaganda.


You're new here...I haven't been here in awhile...so I'll educate you on a little something about me...we do not need to be involved in this regional conflict with Russia and Ukraine. Not.One.Bit.


Zelensky is a Temu version of Putin.  Both are bad.  We need to stay out of it.

[Canuck Conservative]

Social media is rife with it

And yet you can't provide one example

[Free Vulcan]

The propaganda from both sides is tiresome.

Good to see you back.

[Timber Rattler]

Zelensky is a Temu version of Putin.  Both are bad. 

That's not true at all.  You don't know anything about Zelensky.  Here, this will help you.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48007487

[txradioguy]

And yet you can't provide one example

Bless your heart. 



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LkXnEPK3GM&t=8s


Does the Ghost of Kiev ring a bell?


Then there's the chief of Ukranian Armed Forces Valeriy Zaluzhnyy falsely claiming that Russia used WP bombs on Snake Island.


Shall I continue?



Another thing you'll learn about me nOOb...I don't say anything I can't back up either from first person experience or research.

[txradioguy]

That's not true at all.  You don't know anything about Zelensky.  Here, this will help you.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48007487

Yeah I know all about the little actor turned dictator. And I didn't learn it from a hack news outlet like the BBC.  He shut down opposition political parties and media outlets.  Won't hold elections. All the while demanding...not asking...demanding billions of dollars from the West to fund his grift.

[txradioguy]

Good to see you back.

Thanks.  Glad to be back.  Though I think some folks are about to disagree with that sentiment LOL!

[DCPatriot]

Thanks.  Glad to be back.  Though I think some folks are about to disagree with that sentiment LOL!

    

[Canuck Conservative]

Russia DID use phosphorus weapons on Ukrainian cities

Russia DID kidnap Ukrainian children ... that's why Putin & his cronies are wanted for war crimes ... which is why Putin can't visit Trump in Washington, and insists Trump come to Moscow

You can keep defending Putin by selective criticism if you want ... he's still a monster

[txradioguy]

   

Hey buddy what's up?

[Free Vulcan]

Russia DID use phosphorus weapons on Ukrainian cities

Asserted but never proven. Documentation please?

[Hoodat]

Bless your heart. 



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LkXnEPK3GM&t=8s


Does the Ghost of Kiev ring a bell?


Then there's the chief of Ukranian Armed Forces Valeriy Zaluzhnyy falsely claiming that Russia used WP bombs on Snake Island.


Shall I continue?

Another thing you'll learn about me nOOb...I don't say anything I can't back up either from first person experience or research.

Now can you show us where that was posted previously on this board?

As for me, i do not deny having a bias regarding this war.  It is part of my nature to back the underdog in any fight.  And Ukraine is clearly the underdog here.  But when it comes to propaganda, that's where I draw the line.  Truth matters above everything else.  And my posts clearly reflect that.

If you take issue with anything I post, please come to me directly.  If you can show that anything I post is in error, I will gladly correct it.  My reputation is more important than any propaganda.  Thanks.

There are over 2,400 posts on this thread alone.  Please take the opportunity to go back to the beginning and review each post.  If you find anything I've posted that qualifies as propaganda rather than true, I will publicly retract it and acknowledge the mistake.

[txradioguy]

Russia DID use phosphorus weapons on Ukrainian cities

Russia DID kidnap Ukrainian children ... that's why Putin & his cronies are wanted for war crimes ... which is why Putin can't visit Trump in Washington, and insists Trump come to Moscow

You can keep defending Putin by selective criticism if you want ... he's still a monster

I'm not defending either side you lawn flamingo.

Go back and read what I said...slowly if you have to.  Both are just as bad and we don't need to be involved in the entire mess.


You seem to be deficient in reading comprehension...but you're pretty good at moving goal posts.


BTW do you believe Malcolm Nance is a credible source on Ukraine?

[txradioguy]

Now can you show us where that was posted previously on this board?

As for me, i do not deny having a bias regarding this war.  It is part of my nature to back the underdog in any fight.  And Ukraine is clearly the underdog here.  But when it comes to propaganda, that's where I draw the line.  Truth matters above everything else.  And my posts clearly reflect that.

If you take issue with anything I post, please come to me directly.  If you can show that anything I post is in error, I will gladly correct it.  My reputation is more important than any propaganda.  Thanks.

There are over 2,400 posts on this thread alone.  Please take the opportunity to go back to the beginning and review each post.  If you find anything I've posted that qualifies as propaganda rather than true, I will publicly retract it and acknowledge the mistake.

@Hoodat That wasn't directed at you.  That was in response to the Canuck claiming that Ukraine doesn't do propaganda and then challenged me to provide proof.  I provided proof to him.


Trust me...if I have issues with anything you post...and I can't think of any time I ever have...I'd take it up with your directly.  Surely you know me well enough to know that my friend.

[Hoodat]

Asserted but never proven. Documentation please?

Watch: Russian incendiary weapons rain down on Ukrainian town

Videos taken of the alleged attack show brightly burning metals raining from the sky

Joe Barnes  |  13 March 2023  |  11:40am GMT



Russian forces appeared to target the eastern town of Vuhledar with incendiary thermite munitions.

Videos taken of the alleged attack show brightly burning metals raining from the sky on the coal-mining town, while a Ukrainian can be heard talking in the background.

Vuhledar has been one of the main focal points of Moscow’s ill-fated offensive to capture the remains of the Donbas.

Elite troops from its 155th Naval Infantry Brigade have spent months failing to capture the town, suffering huge numbers of casualties and more than 100 destroyed armoured vehicles.

Up to 300 marines from the brigade were believed to have been killed each day last month as they tried to storm Vuhledar.

And now open source intelligence suggested that thermite munitions had been fired at the town by Russian artillery forces.

The shells, which contain layers of thermite, scatter thousands of pieces of metal that burn between 2,000 to 2,500 degrees Celsius.

Vuhledar, which is about 60 miles from Bakhmut, is considered strategically important for Moscow, with its capture potentially giving Russian forces a springboard for future attacks in the Donbas.  .  .  .

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/03/13/watch-russian-incendiary-weapons-rain-ukrainian-town/



Likely thermite and not phosphorous.  But still used against civilian residential areas.

If you're interested in Russian war crimes, I'd be happy to provide a list.

[Canuck Conservative]

Russian Soldier Admits Russia Is Using Illegal Phosphorus Munitions, Intercepted Call Reveals

https://www.ibtimes.com/russian-soldier-admits-russia-using-illegal-phosphorus-munitions-intercepted-call-3588756

[Hoodat]

@Hoodat That wasn't directed at you.  That was in response to the Canuck claiming that Ukraine doesn't do propaganda and then challenged me to provide proof.  I provided proof to him.

Of course Ukraine does propaganda.  But we have made it a point to keep this a propaganda-free zone from both sides.  Which is why when anyone posts baseless claims parroted by Russia, we ask for proof.

For example, a recent claim was made by one poster that the US and NATO could have prevented this war.  Proof of this claim was requested numerous times.  Yet each and every request was ignored.  To me, THAT is what I would consider to be propaganda.  Propaganda that was posted here.  And propaganda that did not go unchallenged.

I know your comment was not directed at me, @txradioguy .  Just wanted to set the record straight on what this thread is all about.  At least to me.

[Canuck Conservative]

International Criminal Court issues arrest warrant for Putin over Ukraine war crimes

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/international-criminal-court-issues-arrest-warrant-for-putin-over-ukraine-war-crimes

"The International Criminal Court said on Friday it issued an arrest warrant for Russian President Vladimir Putin for war crimes because of his alleged involvement in abductions of children from Ukraine.

The court said in a statement that Putin “is allegedly responsible for the war crime of unlawful deportation of (children) and that of unlawful transfer of (children) from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation.”

It also issued a warrant Friday for the arrest of Maria Alekseyevna Lvova-Belova, the Commissioner for Children’s Rights in the Office of the President of the Russian Federation ..."

[MeganC]

...we do not need to be involved in this regional conflict with Russia and Ukraine. Not.One.Bit.

We need to stay out of it.

This is the usual commentary that comes from people who pose as unbiased just before they start spewing their pro-Russian bias.

Feel free to prove me wrong. 

[Hoodat]

Yeah I know all about the little actor turned dictator. And I didn't learn it from a hack news outlet like the BBC.  He shut down opposition political parties and media outlets.

He shut down pro-Russian political parties and media outlets.  We would do the same if we were at war.  (See:  German American Bund)

Won't hold elections.

It would be a violation of Ukraine's constitution to hold elections now.  Are you suggesting he act like a dictator by overriding the Constitution?

All the while demanding...not asking...demanding billions of dollars from the West to fund his grift.

It's not grift.  At least not for Ukraine.  From the beginning, Ukraine has requested weapons.  Not USAID money.  Not State Department handouts.  But weapons.  There is no grift in weapons.  if you want to see grifters, I strongly suggest you look at the Biden Administration.  You can start with Samantha Power.

[txradioguy]

International Criminal Court issues arrest warrant for Putin over Ukraine war crimes

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/international-criminal-court-issues-arrest-warrant-for-putin-over-ukraine-war-crimes

"The International Criminal Court said on Friday it issued an arrest warrant for Russian President Vladimir Putin for war crimes because of his alleged involvement in abductions of children from Ukraine.

The court said in a statement that Putin “is allegedly responsible for the war crime of unlawful deportation of (children) and that of unlawful transfer of (children) from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation.”

It also issued a warrant Friday for the arrest of Maria Alekseyevna Lvova-Belova, the Commissioner for Children’s Rights in the Office of the President of the Russian Federation ..."

The toothless and meaningless ICC..the same people that want Netanyahu tried for "war crimes' and would toss U.S. soldiers and commanders in jail for "war crimes" if we'd signed onto their authority.

 

[txradioguy]

He shut down pro-Russian political parties and media outlets.  We would do the same if we were at war.  (See:  German American Bund)

It was wrong when Lincoln did it.  It was wrong when Roosevelt did it.  And clearly after the last 20 years of the WoT and before that Vietnam...we don't shut down opposition political parties or media outlets.

It would be a violation of Ukraine's constitution to hold elections now.  Are you suggesting he act like a dictator by overriding the Constitution?

They can't hold elections because their constitution says they can't be held when Martial Law has been declared.  Not just because they are at war.

It's not grift.  At least not for Ukraine.  From the beginning, Ukraine has requested weapons.  Not USAID money.  Not State Department handouts.  But weapons.  There is no grift in weapons.  if you want to see grifters, I strongly suggest you look at the Biden Administration.  You can start with Samantha Power.

Oh it's a grift all right and he and his cronies are profiting from it big time. And of course Biden is in on it...he has been since he was VP.  We're funding the budgets of entire towns in Ukraine...funding pension plans for retirees.  They can't account for billions of dollars that he's already been given while he parades himself around on the world stage demand even more billions.

And yes they have asked for more than weapons. 

The U.S. government is subsidizing small businesses in Ukraine, including Tatiana Abramova's knitwear company, to keep them afloat. American officials from USAID helped Abramova find new customers overseas. In the midst of war, her company is supporting over 70 families.

"Especially in the condition of war, we have to work," she said. "We have to pay taxes, we have to pay wage, salary to our employees. We have to work, don't stop."

The U.S. government has also bought seeds and fertilizer for Ukrainian farmers. America is covering the salaries of Ukraine's first responders, all 57,000 of them. The U.S. funds divers who clear unexploded ammunition from the country's rivers to make them safe again for swimming and fishing.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/following-american-money-in-ukraine-60-minutes/


It's not our job to do any of that. 

[Canuck Conservative]

I'm also sick of this constant "both sides are equally bad" BS ... the classic excuse of the Criminal.

So the rape victim is just as responsible as the rapist??

NO. Both sides are not the same, not even close.

Ukraine peacefully got along with its neighbors, and didn't attack or invade anyone in the last 34 years (i.e., since it became independent in 1991)

In contrast, Putin's Russia has been at war for 22 of the 25 years of his reign. In that time, Russia has already attacked & invaded THREE innocent countries that did nothing to Russia - Moldavia, Georgia, and Ukraine (twice). Russia still occupies 1/4 of Georgia, and won't leave!!!

It's pretty easy to see who the REAL troublemaker is here...

[DB]

It was wrong when Lincoln did it.  It was wrong when Roosevelt did it.  And clearly after the last 20 years of the WoT and before that Vietnam...we don't shut down opposition political parties or media outlets.



They can't hold elections because their constitution says they can't be held when Martial Law has been declared.  Not just because they are at war.


Oh it's a grift all right and he and his cronies are profiting from it big time. And of course Biden is in on it...he has been since he was VP.  We're funding the budgets of entire towns in Ukraine...funding pension plans for retirees.  They can't account for billions of dollars that he's already been given while he parades himself around on the world stage demand even more billions.

And yes they have asked for more than weapons. 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/following-american-money-in-ukraine-60-minutes/


It's not our job to do any of that.

We are going to have to strongly disagree on this one.

Good to see you back!

[txradioguy]

I'm also sick of this constant "both sides are equally bad" BS ... the classic excuse of the Criminal.

So the rape victim is just as responsible as the rapist??

NO. Both sides are not the same, not even close.

Ukraine peacefully got along with its neighbors, and didn't attack or invade anyone in the last 34 years (i.e., since it became independent in 1991)

In contrast, Putin's Russia has been at war for 22 of the 25 years of his reign. In that time, Russia has already attacked & invaded THREE innocent countries that did nothing to Russia - Moldavia, Georgia, and Ukraine (twice). Russia still occupies 1/4 of Georgia, and won't leave!!!

It's pretty easy to see who the REAL troublemaker is here...

Your simplistic and completely wrong analogy would be funny if it weren't so threadbare.  It shows a complete lack of anything above a surface knowledge or curiosity about what is really happening on the battlefield over there...or behind the scenes.


Were you this concerned about Russian aggression in 2014 with the Donbas or Crimea? Or are you only a recent Blue and Yellow flag waiving virtue signaler?


Oh and I'm not a trouble maker...I'm a realist...someone who has served in war in three different locations...who studies military history and understands how countries get dragged into long protracted engagements and nation building...not suddenly or overnight...but in the same way we're getting dragged towards WW III with this regional conflict between Russia and Ukraine by people on all sides.

And again let me ask you a simple yes or no question...do you believe Malcolm Nace is a credible source of information on Ukraine?

[txradioguy]

We are going to have to strongly disagree on this one.

Completely understand...it's one of those issues that cause people who normally agree to find themselves on opposite sides.

Good to see you back!

Thanks!

[Timber Rattler]

Yeah I know all about the little actor turned dictator.

How is he a dictator? 

And I didn't learn it from a hack news outlet like the BBC.

So you're aying that the BBC got it wrong and he wasn't elected in a landslide in 2019?

 

He shut down opposition political parties and media outlets.

Not true.  It was the Ukrainian Parliament that banned or restricted those institutions that had been infiltrated or subverted by the Russian FSB or GRU.  Ukraine still has a working Parliament, in case you didn't know that.

  Won't hold elections.

Not true again.  It is unconstitutional in Ukraine for elections to be held during wartime, especially when an invading enemy controls about 20% of your territory.  At any rate, this was thr Ukrainian Parliament's decision and not Zelensky's.  And just for historical context, Great Britain did not hold elections between 1940 and 1945 because of World War II.

All the while demanding...not asking...demanding billions of dollars from the West to fund his grift.

That's not true either.  And nobody have ever provided a shred of proof that Zelensky is a "corrupt grifter."  That's just a Russian propagated lie.

[Timber Rattler]

Asserted but never proven. Documentation please?

Lots and lots of video...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwxn0XecE9E

[Timber Rattler]

Oh and I'm not a trouble maker...I'm a realist...someone who has served in war in three different locations...

Well, I guess you learned nothing in those three different locations...

BTW..."realist" = "appeasenik."

[Free Vulcan]

This is the usual commentary that comes from people who pose as unbiased just before they start spewing their pro-Russian bias.

Feel free to prove me wrong.

Except genocidal warmongers don't have any credibility. You just wanna out-Putin Putin.

[Free Vulcan]

Lots and lots of video...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwxn0XecE9E

And always the caveats 'alleged' and 'possible'.

[MeganC]

Except genocidal warmongers don't have any credibility. You just wanna out-Putin Putin.

If you are claiming that @txradioguy is a genocidal warmonger then take it up with txradioguy.

[Canuck Conservative]

The only "genocidal warmonger is Putin

[MeganC]

The only "genocidal warmonger is Putin

 

[MeganC]

"Russia must be destroyed."

And exactly how many lives do you want to sacrifice to achieve that?

However many Russians need to die in order to get those bastards to stop waging war and threatening war on everyone else.

[Free Vulcan]

If you are claiming that @txradioguy is a genocidal warmonger then take it up with txradioguy.

I guess that's the best you got when you get confronted with your own words.

So how many troops are an acceptable loss in order to expand the empires of countries like China, Afghanistan, Iran, and Turkey?

[Free Vulcan]

"Russia must be destroyed."

However many Russians need to die in order to get those bastards to stop waging war and threatening war on everyone else.

In order to hand countries like China a Christmas gift?

[Free Vulcan]

The only "genocidal warmonger is Putin

Thank you my Personal Jesus. You have proclamated, so therefore it is.

You'd be doing the same thing wanting countries like China to carve up Russia. 

[Canuck Conservative]

KNOW RUSSIA - NO PEACE

NO RUSSIA - KNOW PEACE

[Right_in_Virginia]

"Russia must be destroyed."

However many Russians need to die in order to get those bastards to stop waging war and threatening war on everyone else.

How many Ukrainians?

[Free Vulcan]

KNOW RUSSIA - NO PEACE

NO RUSSIA - KNOW PEACE

Cap'n Queeg approves that message.

And there you go folks. Russia invading countries and killing people - bad. Rest of the world dying to invade a nuclear power and destroy it - good.

[Canuck Conservative]

How many Ukrainians?

Ukraine can stop fighting at any time ... no one is forcing them

They still fight because they want their country back ... how many Americans died fighting Britain to secure the United States' freedom as a country?

Your question is irrelevant

[Canuck Conservative]

Russia invading countries and killing people - bad. Rest of the world dying to invade a nuclear power and destroy it - good.

The first part is correct, the second part is just your imagination overacting

Besides, it probably won't have to come to that ... Russia is falling apart and Putin is doing a great job of destroying Russian society, so much so that one of his own people will probably whack him (and become a hero)

Ya heard it here first!!!

[MeganC]

In order to hand countries like China a Christmas gift?

If China is a threat to Russia then the Russians deserve what happens as a consequence of their wars of conquest.

[MeganC]

How many Ukrainians?

Oh I imagine a few million Chinese will have something to say about the existence of Russia in the near future.

[jafo2010]

Free Vulcan...

So how many troops are an acceptable loss in order to expand the empires of countries like China, Afghanistan, Iran, and Turkey?

In regard to the war in Ukraine, only one person needs to die from where I sit, and that is Putin.  He either dies a natural death, or someone in his inner circle decides to sacrifice his life to eliminate him.  And the odds of that happening are about the same as when pigs fly.

Putin has a long established history of not caring one iota for any Russian life but his own.  It will take millions more dead Russians for Putin to realize the war is pointless.  AS it is, his country is being attacked consistently by Ukraine with drones.

My sister in law lives just north of Moscow, and she said where she lives, it is getting bombed almost daily.  Perhaps the people in metro Moscow start dying in large enough numbers, they will wake up to the fact they follow a tyrant.  Putin controls all the media there, so they are largely clueless.

[Cyber Liberty]

Oh I imagine a few million Chinese will have something to say about the existence of Russia in the near future.

Their problem, not mine.