Author Topic: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash  (Read 32427 times)

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Online mystery-ak

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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #150 on: January 30, 2025, 02:44:30 pm »


Everything we know so far about DC plane crash victims

https://nypost.com/2025/01/30/us-news/dc-plane-crash-victims/
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Online mystery-ak

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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #151 on: January 30, 2025, 02:47:00 pm »
Ooops, I think we wandered into the wrong thread, @mystery-ak.

Thanks...too many tabs open...
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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #152 on: January 30, 2025, 02:56:31 pm »
Quote
The price of a less-than-exceptional ATC in this case are the lives of everyone on that airliner and in that helicopter.

From what I see the helicopter was approved for its flight path based on the airliner landing on another runway. Then the ATC diverted the airliner but forgot to divert the helicopter or didn't even bother looking for conflicting traffic.

In proximity to ground clutter the airliner's avoidance system is not going to issue a warning so the responsibility to control low altitude traffic in close proximity to the airport falls on the ATC.

If, as I suspect, the ATC is a DEI hire from the past four years then Trump's comment will be borne out.

And I imagine he knows more about this than we do right now.

This is exactly what my husband Mike is saying....40 years Army Aviation...Crew chief of Hueys, Blackhawks and 1sgt of Chinnock Bn....
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #153 on: January 30, 2025, 02:57:42 pm »
The helicopter was conducting a "training flight".

I heard this helicopter flight described a little differently.  These pilots need to be the best of the best and are screened at least annually to make sure their skills aren't slipping.  This flight sounded like a performance review.






« Last Edit: January 30, 2025, 03:00:49 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Online mystery-ak

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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #154 on: January 30, 2025, 03:01:52 pm »
48 min(s) ago
Pinned
Staffing at air control tower was ‘not normal,' according to FAA: report

Staffing at the air control tower at Ronald Reagan National Airport was “not normal for the time of day and volume of traffic,” according to an internal preliminary Federal Aviation Administration report reviewed by The New York Times.

The controller who was handling helicopters Wednesday night was also instructing planes that were landing and departing from the airport runways, the Times reported. Those assignments are typically assigned to two controllers.

Fox News Digital has reached out to the FAA.

The air control tower at Reagan airport has been understaffed for years with 19 fully certified controllers as of September 2023. However, staffing targets set by the FAA and the controllers’ union call for 30.
Posted by Louis Casiano
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #155 on: January 30, 2025, 03:02:22 pm »
It is possible that this was a student pilot, doing training, but he should not have been that close to a runway.
That was a search helicopter, after the accident.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #156 on: January 30, 2025, 03:15:46 pm »
Misconceptions about *training exercises*...anytime you fly[non combat] it's called a training mission..Helo pilots have to log so many hours a month and have to meet their minimum flight hours per month and they call it additional flight training although they already have many hours logged...they are not necessarily learning how to fly....per Mike
« Last Edit: January 30, 2025, 03:16:59 pm by mystery-ak »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #157 on: January 30, 2025, 03:17:45 pm »
Hoover, over on YouTube, on a series called Pilot Debrief, speaks of a model where "all the holes line up in the Swiss cheese"--that is, a series of small events line up to produce a catastrophe.

I think this may well be one of those sort of events.

The plane crew was likely busy as all get out configuring the plane for final approach, concentrating on that task, altitude, airspeed, and alignment with the runway. At their altitude and configuration and airspeed, any abrupt maneuver to avoid collision (had they seen it coming) would likely have caused an unrecoverable stall, with the plane going down and likely no survivors.
The Helicopter crew was likely similarly focused on their tasks, had noted the other plane in that airspace, but was not aware there were two. (the ATC was not completely clear on that point, and may have missed an opportunity to have the helo reverse course in time, but that is merely speculation)
I would not want to be in their shoes, whatever the case. Rather than rush to judgement at this point, I will pray for all involved.
I will wait until there is more information and see what the case is.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2025, 03:18:33 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #158 on: January 30, 2025, 03:19:12 pm »
Trump should have just prayed with the American people..

Nah...the President is not clergy.   But, he did offer prayers, ending with this:

Quote
"Together we take solace in the knowledge that their journey ended not in the cold waters of the Potomac, but in the warm embrace of a loving God.”

Beautiful statement from President Trump.

https://x.com/_johnnymaga/status/1885001677796708784




« Last Edit: January 30, 2025, 03:20:07 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline libertybele

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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #159 on: January 30, 2025, 03:25:06 pm »
Nah...the President is not clergy.   But, he did offer prayers, ending with this:

I agree.  Quite a beautiful statement.  I think the President did well.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #160 on: January 30, 2025, 03:26:14 pm »
"This is what Trump was referring to when he called out the FAA for their DEI hiring practices to hire people with “severe psychiatric and intellectual disabilities.”

"It's real. You can't make this up."


https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1885017228958986276

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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #161 on: January 30, 2025, 03:27:39 pm »
"Trump calls out FAA's DEI push to hire people with "severe intellectual and psychiatric disabilities."


https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1885012740583940264

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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #162 on: January 30, 2025, 03:42:19 pm »
Buttigieg was/is a total incompetent.  Now living in Michigan, he is planning to run for the Senate.  I sure hope the Republicans have a decent opponent to ensure this knucklehead is not elected.
Are you kidding they elected : Rashida Tlaib (D) (since 2019)
13th district: Shri Thanedar 2 years ago.
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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #163 on: January 30, 2025, 03:44:51 pm »
Hoover, over on YouTube, on a series called Pilot Debrief, speaks of a model where "all the holes line up in the Swiss cheese"--that is, a series of small events line up to produce a catastrophe.

I think this may well be one of those sort of events.

The plane crew was likely busy as all get out configuring the plane for final approach, concentrating on that task, altitude, airspeed, and alignment with the runway. At their altitude and configuration and airspeed, any abrupt maneuver to avoid collision (had they seen it coming) would likely have caused an unrecoverable stall, with the plane going down and likely no survivors.
The Helicopter crew was likely similarly focused on their tasks, had noted the other plane in that airspace, but was not aware there were two. (the ATC was not completely clear on that point, and may have missed an opportunity to have the helo reverse course in time, but that is merely speculation)
I would not want to be in their shoes, whatever the case. Rather than rush to judgement at this point, I will pray for all involved.
I will wait until there is more information and see what the case is.

@Smokin Joe

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Offline rustynail

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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #164 on: January 30, 2025, 03:53:55 pm »
Iyane

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·
3h
A former Black Hawk pilot revealed that the military helicopter involved in last night's Washington D.C. crash did not have a standard voice recorder or black box.

https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/1885012740583940264

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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #165 on: January 30, 2025, 03:59:25 pm »
Hoover, over on YouTube, on a series called Pilot Debrief
I enjoy his videos, along with The Flight Channel. Very informative.
The abnormal is not the normal just because it is prevalent.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #166 on: January 30, 2025, 04:08:24 pm »
@Smokin Joe

Do you have a link?
Hoover will likely wait for the data from the black boxes and everything to comment on this event.  This, however, is a typical post of an air crash analysis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdtsQZ8eZos
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #167 on: January 30, 2025, 04:09:40 pm »
Topics merged. Please put articles about the DCA crash here.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #168 on: January 30, 2025, 04:09:44 pm »
Iyane

@XTechPulse
·
3h
A former Black Hawk pilot revealed that the military helicopter involved in last night's Washington D.C. crash did not have a standard voice recorder or black box.

https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/1885012740583940264
It is my understanding that that is not uncommon on military aircraft. Imagine the intel an enemy could glean from a CVR or FDR.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline MeganC

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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #169 on: January 30, 2025, 04:38:51 pm »
The Army has confirmed no officials were onboard the aircraft, which was carrying three soldiers, a standard sized crew, according to Fox News Journalist Jennifer Griffin.

No officials were on the flight. That is not the same as saying the only people on the flight were the crew.

The purpose of the flight may have been the transport of a classified VIP or perhaps even a detainee.


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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #170 on: January 30, 2025, 04:42:23 pm »
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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #171 on: January 30, 2025, 04:46:53 pm »
Trump signs executive orders on aviation safety

President Donald Trump on Thursday signed two executive orders pertaining to aviation safety.

In the Oval Office, Trump said the first order was a formal commission to appoint a deputy administrator for the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).

The second established a memorandum ordering an immediate assessment of aviation safety and ordering an elevation of “competence” over “DEI," or Diversity, equity and inclusion.

Trump has vowed to stamp out DEI practices within the federal government, arguing such policies fosters discrimination instead of merit.
Posted by Louis Casiano
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #172 on: January 30, 2025, 04:49:11 pm »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfgllf1L9_4

This appears to be a calm and rational analysis of the crash given the available information. DEI does not appear to have been a factor from the ATC end of things, but not all the information is out yet.

Still, getting ahead of the departing administration's DEI initiative is a very good idea. This sort of tragedy can occur even with competent people involved.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2025, 04:51:32 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #173 on: January 30, 2025, 04:55:22 pm »
Krístina Wong
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Spoke to someone who served in the same unit as the Army Black Hawk crew, knew them personally, and flew those routes. He made the following points:

1) That it was a training flight was not unusual at all. Those flights are flown everyday.

2) The co-pilot was going through her annual evaluation for night flying. Night vision goggles can magnify light, making it easier to confuse aircraft lights with ground lights.

3) Runway 33 -- where Air Traffic Control told the passenger jet (CRJ) to land -- is "rarely used." This person said in his four years, he saw it being used 10 times. It is a much shorter runway than the main one used, which is Runway 1.

4) The Black Hawk appeared to confuse the passenger jet with another plane landing at Runway 1 — which is why the pilot-in-command confirmed seeing the CRJ and requesting “visual separation,” or essentially saying he would avoid it.

5) The CRJ was circling to land and making a left turn at the time. The Black Hawk was in its blind spot.

6) The crew was experienced: The instructor pilot had just under 1,000 flying hours. He was former Navy. The co-pilot had around 500 hours, and the crew chief — who served on multiple combat tours — around 1,000 hours. They flew these same routes for at least three years.

7) It was not unusual to have three crew members on a Black Hawk. There’s only four for certain mission sets. Whether the crew chief saw the CRJ would have depended on which side he was sitting on.

8) It was a dark night, with no moon.

9) Air Traffic Control could have told the Black Hawk to hold north, or diverted it.

10) Potential changes could be to change the route, altitude, or hours during heavy air traffic.

“All these things, they all made for the perfect storm.”

3:17 PM · Jan 30, 2025





Online mystery-ak

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Re: All flights halted at Reagan National Airport due to plane crash
« Reply #174 on: January 30, 2025, 05:07:53 pm »
Virginia school district says 3 students, 6 parents involved in deadly midair collision

Three Virginia public school students and six parents were on the American Air Lines flight that collided with an Army helicopter Wednesday night.

Fairfax County Public Schools said the students and parents were returning to Virginia from a figure skating event in Wichita, Kansas.

“What we know at this time is that three of our FCPS students and six of our FCPS parents were lost, affecting multiple schools and departments here at FCPS," school district Superintendent Michelle Reid said in a statement. "Two of the parents were current or former FCPS staff members. Multiplying the grief are the siblings, spouses, relatives, friends and colleagues who have lost loved ones.”

Reid said the district will not release the names of the students and parents involved in the deadly collision, citing privacy concerns.
Posted by Louis Casiano
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