LIVE THREAD....Day 21: Closing Arguments And Verdict

[corbe]

   My Big Sister, an avid Trumper, does not believe that Trump slept with any of those Women.  But believes Cruz had 10 GF's.  When pressed she quips 'We elected a President not a Preacher', she's very Religious, too.  Why did he, frugal Trump, pay these Women a 1/4 M$ if he didn't have something to hide? 
   I agree about the petri dish comment, for being a documented Germaphobe, it doesn't make any sense.

[LMAO]

   My Big Sister, an avid Trumper, does not believe that Trump slept with any of those Women.  But believes Cruz had 10 GF's.  When pressed she quips 'We elected a President not a Preacher',

Heard this same line during the Clinton administration.

[Bigun]

Trump has over 20 accusations of sexual misconduct leveled at him since the 1970's by different women plus he's on tape bragging about grabbing women by the genitalia

You have to suspend all disbelief to believe all those women are lying.

 

How many have been proven to have been lying in recent years? It has become SOP to use this kind of crap to take out candidates they don't like. Roy Moore being but one recent example.

[mystery-ak]

Exclusive — Trump Lawyer: Merchan Keeping Trump in Courthouse so He Can’t Campaign

Judge Merchan is keeping former President Donald Trump off the campaign trail by forcing him to wait at the courthouse while the jury deliberates.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2024/05/29/exclusive-trump-lawyer-merchan-keeping-trump-courthouse-so-he-cant-campaign/

[LMAO]

How many have been proven to have been lying in recent years? It has become SOP to use this kind of crap to take out candidates they don't like. Roy Moore being but one recent example.

Trump's accusations go back from before he ran for president. Plus the "Access Hollywood" tape is real

But nice try

[Wingnut]

Trump's accusations go back from before he ran for president. Plus the "Access Hollywood" tape is real

But nice try

C'mon man.  You can do better.  Grabbing Pu$$y is a way of life.

[libertybele]

Trump has over 20 accusations of sexual misconduct leveled at him since the 1970's by different women plus he's on tape bragging about grabbing women by the genitalia

You have to suspend all disbelief to believe all those women are lying.

???? He has $$ and had money. I find it difficult to believe that all those women didn't come forth sooner. Oh, that's right they waited until they could get hush money from him. 

[libertybele]

Exclusive — Trump Lawyer: Merchan Keeping Trump in Courthouse so He Can’t Campaign

Judge Merchan is keeping former President Donald Trump off the campaign trail by forcing him to wait at the courthouse while the jury deliberates.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2024/05/29/exclusive-trump-lawyer-merchan-keeping-trump-courthouse-so-he-cant-campaign/

I think they'll extend the deliberations until Friday, but beyond that, I doubt it.  Hopefully, he'll soon be free to campaign as he wishes.

I'm sure right now he and his entire family are beyond worried as to what his fate may be.  They have him right where they want him; all they need is a conviction.

[libertybele]

How many have been proven to have been lying in recent years? It has become SOP to use this kind of crap to take out candidates they don't like. Roy Moore being but one recent example.

#ME TOO movement evolved and rightfully so, but that movement has also now allowed people like Moore to be accused.  The leftists have seen to it.

Of course women shouldn't be sexually assaulted and men who abuse should pay the price, but in the same light men who have been accused of abuse and are innocent pay a hefty price.

[Hoodat]

Trump could be the biggest serial adulterer alive.  But it would have ZERO relevance in this case.

[libertybele]

Trump could be the biggest serial adulterer alive.  But it would have ZERO relevance in this case.

Yes, that should have zero relevance in this case.

[DB]

Trump could be the biggest serial adulterer alive.  But it would have ZERO relevance in this case.

What do you mean???

That was the only relevance. It was political theater under the color of law. There was no actual law involved.

(I know you know that)...

[catfish1957]

What is so crazy, is that I don't think anyone of us have a good idea whether there will be a guilty verdict or hung with one or two dissenters.

Anyone else have an idea at all, or venture a strong guess of how this will fare?

[deb]

What is so crazy, is that I don't think anyone of us have a good idea whether there will be a guilty verdict or hung with one or two dissenters.

Anyone else have an idea at all, or venture a strong guess of how this will fare?

My first thought was that a guilty verdict would have been found yesterday, within hours of the jury getting the case. Kinda like the OJ trial.
The fact that there’s a day two of deliberations gives some hope.
I think it will end in a hung trial. But I could be wrong.

[rustynail]

“I’ve Seen It Done”: Alan Dershowitz Speculates That Judge Merchan Is Prepared to Swap “One Juror” Who “Won’t Give In”

https://thelibertydaily.com/ive-seen-it-done-alan-dershowitz-speculates-merchan/

[mystery-ak]

 Fox News anchor to Alina Habba: Biden ‘not responsible’ for Trump trial
by Dominick Mastrangelo - 05/29/24 5:22 PM ET

Fox News anchor and legal analyst Shannon Bream pushed back on an assertion made by Alina Habba, one of Donald Trump’s attorneys, that President Biden is responsible for the criminal charges the former president faces in New York.

“And Joe Biden unfortunately can’t really do anything in office,” Habba said as she joined Bream, the host of “Fox News Sunday” who was broadcasting for much of the afternoon from outside the Manhattan courthouse where Trump’s trial is taking place. “So he’s got to use the same means as somebody who’s just trying to have a quick slip and fall and make money. And that is, frankly, what we’re seeing right now.

“This is exactly a Biden show because he’s got to distract the American people,” Habba continued.

“But the Biden administration is not responsible for this trial,” Bream interjected.

“How can you say the Biden administration is not responsible?” Habba shot back.

“It’s a state trial,” Bream explained. “It’s [Manhattan District Attorney] Alvin Bragg. Whether you think there’s a political motive for him, it’s not connected to the DOJ. I mean, the feds passed on these election charges.”

more
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/4692618-fox-news-shannon-bream-alina-habba-biden-trump-trial/

[mystery-ak]

 Trump knocks ‘naive’ Shannon Bream over Alina Habba interview
by Nick Robertson - 05/30/24 7:29 AM ET

Former President Trump labeled Fox News’s Shannon Bream as “naive” Wednesday, after she pushed back on his attorney’s assertion that his criminal hush money trial was in some way directed by the White House.

Bream said in an interview with Trump attorney and spokesperson Alina Habba that President Biden is “not responsible” for the trial, pushing back on her false claims that the case is politically organized from the top.

“I never knew Shannon Bream was so ‘naive,’” Trump said in a Truth Social post Wednesday, calling the idea that Biden isn’t involved in the case “stupid.”

“Not only is he involved, he is virtually leading it, and all of the other Trials as well — Meaning, his people, because he’s not mentally sharp enough to lead anything!” he continued. “Just take a look at the DOJ/White House Thugs involved, and everything else.”

more
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/4693342-donald-trump-knocks-fox-anchor-shannon-bream-over-alina-habba-interview/mlite/

[libertybele]

My first thought was that a guilty verdict would have been found yesterday, within hours of the jury getting the case. Kinda like the OJ trial.
The fact that there’s a day two of deliberations gives some hope.
I think it will end in a hung trial. But I could be wrong.

I too expected a quick verdict.  The fact that the jurors have requested bits of information from the trial makes me at least think that there are those questioning testimony.  To me that is a positive sign.

Continued prayers for Trump that justice will prevail.

[mystery-ak]

Jury hears instructions again on second day of deliberations

Judge Juan Merchan welcomed jurors back to the courtroom Thursday and re-read their two notes from yesterday.

Merchan told the jury they have located the testimony that was requested Wednesday evening and are ready to re-read it.

Merchan gave jurors the "choice" of listening to the instructions via headphones or speaker.

Asked by Merchan whether the jurors wanted the instructions or the testimony first, the foreperson said, “The instructions.”

Merchan began re-reading the instructions. Instructions will be read from pages 6-35.
Posted by Kyle Morris

[libertybele]

Jury hears instructions again on second day of deliberations

Judge Juan Merchan welcomed jurors back to the courtroom Thursday and re-read their two notes from yesterday.

Merchan told the jury they have located the testimony that was requested Wednesday evening and are ready to re-read it.

Merchan gave jurors the "choice" of listening to the instructions via headphones or speaker.

Asked by Merchan whether the jurors wanted the instructions or the testimony first, the foreperson said, “The instructions.”

Merchan began re-reading the instructions. Instructions will be read from pages 6-35.
Posted by Kyle Morris

Why don't they give the jurors written instructions?  The instructions are lengthy and that way they'd have instructions to follow in front of them instead of trying to remember all of them. Too much information to digest and try to remember can become confusing and allow too much room for error.

[LMAO]

My first thought was that a guilty verdict would have been found yesterday, within hours of the jury getting the case. Kinda like the OJ trial.
The fact that there’s a day two of deliberations gives some hope.
I think it will end in a hung trial. But I could be wrong.

I had a chance to talk to my sister this morning. She’s an attorney in Florida and she thinks he’ll be found not guilty

A not guilty verdict would be a major embarrassment to Alvin Bragg.

[mystery-ak]

Andrew H. Giuliani
@AndrewHGiuliani
HERE IS COMES THE UNCONSTITUTIONAL INSTRUCTION: Although you must conclude unanimously that the defendant violated New York State Election Law, you need not be unanimous on what those unlawful means are.

You may consider the following
1) FECA violations
2) Falsification of other Business Records
3) Violation of Tax Law

[mystery-ak]

Andrew H. Giuliani
@AndrewHGiuliani
“If you find that any witness has intentionally testified falsely, you may disregard that entire witnesses’ testimony. Or you can disregard the part that you believe is untruthful.” Merchan

My mind goes to the testimony of THE GLOAT, the MVP of Lying, the Greatest Liar of All Time, Michael Cohen.

Andrew H. Giuliani
@AndrewHGiuliani
·
19m
“You may consider whether a witness has an interest in the outcome of a case.” - Merchan

Stormy Daniels - Make America Horny Again Tour
Michael Cohen - Convict45 merchandise line

What do you think?

[mystery-ak]

NYP

10 minutes ago
To convict, jurors must agree that Trump 'conspired' to influence 2016 election with by 'unlawful means' — but don't need to agree on what those 'means' are
By Ben Kochman and Kyle Schnitzer

To convict, jurors must unanimously decide that Donald Trump falsified business records with the "intent" to cover up the hush money payout to Michael Cohen, and that the hush money was part of an illegal "conspiracy" to elect Trump in 2016 by what's called "unlawful means," the judge said.

But panelists can take a choose-your-own-adventure path to deciding what those "unlawful means" are.

Per the judge, jurors can consider whether the hush money payouts to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal breached campaign finance laws, were tax fraud, or whether business records were themselves falsified during that process — for example, whether Cohen fudged records to create his shell companies that he used for the payoffs.

But they don't have to agree on what those "unlawful means" are.

[mystery-ak]

Fox

45 min(s) ago
Pinned
Jonathan Turley and Kerri Kupec inside the court: This jury policy is nuts

Trump is in the courtroom. Waiting for the judge. Will soon know if the jury wants a particular instruction or instructions read back. Frankly, it is nuts in my view that the jury is not given the instructions and must have them read back to them. It serves no positive or productive purpose.

--Fox News contributor and GWU professor Jonathan Turley

Nuts.

--Fox News legal editor Kerri Kupec
Posted by Anders Hagstrom

15 min(s) ago
Jonathan Turley inside the court: Some of the instructions readback request is good for defense team

Notably, the instructions include a warning that, while Pecker's non-prosecution agreement on election violations, may not be used to infer guilt by Trump. The same is true about barring any inference from Cohen's plea which is to be used solely for credibility and to establish the context of the facts. This is a good thing for the defense to have reread to the jury. Again, it is not clear if that is an issue that led to the inference readback request. He is now getting into discounting testimony. He is again instructing that the jury can discharge the entirety of the testimony of a witness who has lied previously or in the testimony.

-- Fox News contributor and GWU professor Jonathan Turley
Posted by Michael Lee

[mystery-ak]

3 minutes ago
Two court reporters performing readback of David Pecker testimony

Up first is David Pecker's testimony about his phone conversation with Donald Trump in June 2016. It is being performed by two court reporters inside the courtroom.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

So let's talk worse case scenario here: he's found guilty and locked up? That will IMO ignite such a shitstorm and crisis in this country like we haven't seen since the Civil War.

[catfish1957]

So let's talk worse case scenario here: he's found guilty and locked up? That will IMO ignite such a shitstorm and crisis in this country like we haven't seen since the Civil War.

That's crossed my mind too.  That is why though cases are very different in some respect, I cited a Rodney King analogy yesterday.

[mystery-ak]

2 min(s) ago
Turley inside the court: Jury rehears testimony from Pecker about killing negative Trump stories

Jury now hearing Pecker's testimony of when he received a call from Donald Trump. He said that Trump told him that Karen "is a nice girl" and that he heard that there was a group trying to buy McDougal's story and asked what Pecker thought he should do. Pecker recommended buying the story. Pecker said that he believed that the story would be embarrassing "both to himself and to his campaign." That is an interesting passage because it shows a dual interest in avoiding such stories. Pecker also testified that he previously killed stories for Trump (before he ran for office) and did so for a number of other celebrities.

--  Jonathan Turley, constitutional law attorney and Fox News contributor
Posted by Kyle Morris

8 min(s) ago
Judge finishes rereading instructions, moves on to testimony

Judge Merchan finished rereading instructions just before 10:30 A.M. Tuesday, with proceedings now moving to the jurors requests to rehear testimony.

Court reporters then began reading back testimony, starting with David Pecker’s testimony about a call with Trump at an investor’s meeting in New Jersey.
Posted by Michael Lee

[libertybele]

So let's talk worse case scenario here: he's found guilty and locked up? That will IMO ignite such a shitstorm and crisis in this country like we haven't seen since the Civil War.

I disagree.  I don't think Trump supporters will rise up.  Not in the least.  J6 was a warning shot to them all and I suspect that they are already prepared to 'calm' any insurrection very swiftly and by any means possible.  After all the ultimate goal is to lock Trump up.

[mystery-ak]

3 minutes ago
Jurors rehear key testimony that Enquirer's Pecker buried stories about Trump before 2016 election to 'help campaign'
By Ben Kochman

The testimony being read aloud by the two court stenographers gets to one of the prosecution's key claims — that David Pecker agreed before the 2016 election to help bury negative Trump stories to help him win.

Part of the deal the Enquirer struck with Trump and Michael Cohen at an August 2015 Trump Tower meeting to publish positive stories about Trump and negative ones about his opponents was "mutually beneficial" because it also helped boost magazine sales, Pecker testified.

But the part involving buying and burying harmful stories about Trump — what prosecutors labeled "catch and kill" — didn't help the magazine, and was only meant to help the campaign, Pecker told jurors on April 23.

“The purpose of that component was to benefit the campaign, am I understanding you right?" Steinglass asked the tabloid magazine's former publisher.

“That is right,” Pecker replied.

To convict Trump of first-degree falsifying business records, jurors need to unanimously believe that Trump, Pecker and Cohen "conspired to influence the election by unlawful means," according to the judge's instructions.

[Cyber Liberty]

Why don't they give the jurors written instructions?  The instructions are lengthy and that way they'd have instructions to follow in front of them instead of trying to remember all of them. Too much information to digest and try to remember can become confusing and allow too much room for error.

This is my beef with these deliberations.  After this lengthy read back, they still won't get anything written!  Given the complexity of the Instructions, this is totally insane.

[DB]

After this charade is over and the likely conviction overturned by the higher courts due to gross violation of the law the judge will retire very wealthy. He will have served his purpose of getting a political conviction before a presidential election.

Democrats keep bringing corruption of our government to new lows with little consequence to them.

[Bigun]

Why don't they give the jurors written instructions?  The instructions are lengthy and that way they'd have instructions to follow in front of them instead of trying to remember all of them. Too much information to digest and try to remember can become confusing and allow too much room for error.

Because the "judge" doesn't want any of his BS in writing. Next question.

[libertybele]

Because the "judge" doesn't want any of his BS in writing. Next question.

   You're right!

[catfish1957]

Because the "judge" doesn't want any of his BS in writing. Next question.

Good catch, because I am betting good money that crooked Marchan is going to start getting some butt sores from sitting at congressional hearings testifying.

Harder to prove a crime on verbal interaction.

[DB]

Doesn't the court recorder capture all the verbal instructions?

[Bigun]

Good catch, because I am betting good money that crooked Marchan is going to start getting some butt sores from sitting at congressional hearings testifying.

Harder to prove a crime on verbal interaction.

The only record will be what it says in the court reporters transcript.

[mystery-ak]

Trump and Son Don Jr. Troll Leftists from Courthouse

Former President Donald Trump and his eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., are trolling leftists from the courthouse in New York.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2024/05/30/trump-and-son-don-jr-troll-leftists-from-courthouse/

[catfish1957]

Trump and Son Don Jr. Troll Leftists from Courthouse

Former President Donald Trump and his eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., are trolling leftists from the courthouse in New York.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2024/05/30/trump-and-son-don-jr-troll-leftists-from-courthouse/

This is a dangerous situtation for DJT, I'd rather him not be poking the bear in NYC.

[mystery-ak]

‘I’ve Seen It Done’: Alan Dershowitz Speculates Merchan Is Prepared To Swap ‘One Juror’ Who ‘Won’t Give In’


Harold Hutchison
Reporter
May 29, 2024 7:22 PM ET


Noted attorney Alan Dershowitz said on Wednesday that it is possible New York Judge Juan Merchan is not dismissing alternate jurors in order to deal with a holdout that will not convict former President Donald Trump.

Merchan issued instructions to the jury of seven men and five women Wednesday, pointing them to some of the key evidence in the case prior to the panel beginning its deliberations. Dershowitz admitted he was speculating during Wednesday’s episode of “The Dershow” about Merchan’s reason for keeping the alternates available, but said he had seen a judge in an unrelated case make a similar move.

“I admit this is highly, highly speculative, but there… I know a case on this, so that I’m not making it up: The judge said he’s not going to dismiss the alternate jurors until there’s an absolute verdict,” Dershowitz said. “One possible reason for that, again, I want to emphasize that I’m speculating, one possible reason for this might be following, it is quite cynical: Let’s assume that the jurors come back and say, ‘Sorry we’re, uh, we’re deadlocked. We have one juror who just won’t give in. Well, there are eleven of us who think he’s guilty.’ By the way, the jurors don’t say what they think, they just say there’s a deadlock, but if they come back that way, the inference will be that the jury is, that is, is locked eleven to one in favor of conviction.’”

more
https://dailycaller.com/2024/05/29/ive-seen-it-done-alan-dershowitz-speculates-merchan-is-prepared-to-swap-one-juror-who-wont-give-in/

[mystery-ak]

Trump team could move to file emergency filing with Supreme Court: Shannon Bream

Former President Donald Trump's legal team may have grounds to file some type of emergency filing with the Supreme Court, according to Fox News Channel's Shannon Bream.

The Supreme Court rarely gets involved with state cases, but the options jurors have to pick from in deciding the case of NY v. Trump "provides a POSSIBLE path for some type of emergency filing with the Supreme Court," Bream said Thursday.

Fox News legal editor Kerri Kupec Urbahn pointed out that "It is remarkable a tax crime could be one of the options the jury has to pick from given we sat here for weeks and heard almost nothing about it."

"I don’t see how that’s not a due process violation on its face," Urbahn noted. The "smorgasbord approach" offered to the jury for finding that Trump committed an underlying crime, plus the "vague NY election law at play in this case (similar to vague law at play in the Trump civil fraud trial), really makes you question what kind of chance you have in the NY legal system if the DA’s office is out to get you," Urbahn said.

"If the Trump team can articulate some federal/constitutional claims arising out of what’s happened here, it’s likely worth a shot for the Trump team to try. If not, they really haven’t lost much," added Bream, the anchor of "Fox News Sunday."

The jury began its second day of deliberation just before 11:30 A.M., with the jury spending the bulk of the morning rehearing both judge instructions and specific testimony jurors had requested.
Posted by Kyle Morris

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

This is a dangerous situtation for DJT, I'd rather him not be poking the bear in NYC.

Yep, but he cannot help himself. Even though the trial is a sham, inflaming the situation only makes things worse.

[mystery-ak]

1 hour(s) ago
Trump gets TV sent to holding room

Former President Donald Trump was able to get a TV sent to his courthouse waiting room, a campaign source told Fox News Digital.

Trump is passing the time watching TV as the jury continues deliberating for the second day, something he wasn't able to do on the first day of deliberation.

The jury began its second day of deliberation just before 11:30 A.M., with the jury spending the bulk of the morning rehearing both judge instructions and specific testimony jurors had requested.
Posted by Michael Lee

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I wonder if they know what's coming?

[mystery-ak]

Yep, but he cannot help himself. Even though the trial is a sham, inflaming the situation only makes things worse.

Especially since this is the Judge who will pass sentence..

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I disagree.  I don't think Trump supporters will rise up.  Not in the least.  J6 was a warning shot to them all and I suspect that they are already prepared to 'calm' any insurrection very swiftly and by any means possible.  After all the ultimate goal is to lock Trump up.

You think the 70- 80 million trump voters are going to be ok with a presidential candidate locked up in jail? That IMO is a bridge too far for most people.

Chaos is coming IMO.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I disagree.  I don't think Trump supporters will rise up.  Not in the least.

Why wouldn't you rise up @libertybele ?

[DCPatriot]

Hypothetical here...

Say the jury cannot reach a unanimous decision as the law requires.

Say the 'honorable' judge decides to replace "Juror #8"...'Henry Fonda' with another juror to avoid a mistrail.

Say the subsequent "GUILTY" verdict is reached.

Say the Jury Foreman stands up when requested to announce the verdict.

Say another juror suddenly rises and shouts that he/she has decided to change their decision to "NOT GUILTY" and expresses same in a public display.

What then?

....are we having fun yet???

[andy58-in-nh]

Hypothetical here...

Say the jury cannot reach a unanimous decision as the law requires.

Say the 'honorable' judge decides to replace "Juror #8"...'Henry Fonda' with another juror to avoid a mistrail.

Say the subsequent "GUILTY" verdict is reached.

Say the Jury Foreman stands up when requested to announce the verdict.

Say another juror suddenly rises and shouts that he/she has decided to change their decision to "NOT GUILTY" and expresses same in a public display.

What then?

....are we having fun yet???

The judge cannot do that. Mistrial and worse, for the judge.