Author Topic: BREAKING....Thread 5...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON  (Read 26284 times)

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Offline Kamaji

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Re: BREAKING....Thread 5...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON
« Reply #500 on: October 23, 2023, 07:33:02 pm »
Yep. There is no other reason for China's ships to be there, except to exert hegemony.

'Accidentally' hit one of our carrier groups, and the S will HTF: WWIII. Escalation could happen in a matter of minutes, not days. We're off balance and poorly led for such a situation, and Biden is no FDR to hang another term of getting us into conflict. Our manufacturing is behind even the ghost of itself of the mid 30s, and there has been no ramp up like with Lend Lease. Too many eggs are in technological baskets the bugs have not been shaken out of, including the Ford.

Add in that it seems everyone seems to have forgotten the horror of nuclear war, and the Muslims really don't care (shaheed and all that), and this is worse by far than the Cuban Missile Crisis, and led by an administration perfused with anti-American people who have other loyalties.

They have no hegemony to exert in the Mediterranean.  They're trying to assert relevance on the world stage, not hegemony.

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: BREAKING....Thread 5...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON
« Reply #503 on: October 23, 2023, 08:02:30 pm »
drip drip drip....Hamas will keep doing this to keep Israel/US from starting the ground war..

The US has pulled back from a ground war ---- this and Israel's expanding efforts to convince the world this is attack is worse than the Holocaust have shifted Israel's focus and position.

16 days ago Israel owned the narrative of self-defense and war.  Now the narrative is muddled by Israeli and international actions, apparently taking momentum with it.




« Last Edit: October 23, 2023, 08:07:26 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

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Re: BREAKING....Thread 5...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON
« Reply #504 on: October 23, 2023, 08:03:50 pm »

Amiram Cooper (left), 85, and his wife, Nurit (Yitzhak) Cooper, 80, with Gali, their granddaughter in an undated Facebook photo. Nurit was released by Hamas on Monday, but it is believed that Amiram is still being held hostage.



Oded (left) and Yocheved Lifshitz, from Kibbutz Nahal Oz, in an undated photo. The couple reportedly spent years driving Palestinians from Gaza into Israel to receive life-saving medical treatment. Yocheved was released by Hamas into Egypt on Monday, while her husband is still reportedly being held in Gaza.
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Re: BREAKING....Thread 5...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON
« Reply #505 on: October 23, 2023, 08:05:48 pm »
Quote
16 days ago Israel owned the narrative of self defense and war.  Now the narrative is muddled by Israeli and international actions, apparently taking momentum with it.

Bibi will be history in Israel if that happens....he should have NEVER listened to Biden...FJB
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Re: BREAKING....Thread 5...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON
« Reply #506 on: October 23, 2023, 08:07:32 pm »
OSINTdefender
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Several Bases operated by U.S. Forces in Eastern Syria have reportedly been Attacked by Drones within the last Hour; this is almost surely once again the Islamic Revolution in Iraq.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: BREAKING....Thread 5...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON
« Reply #507 on: October 23, 2023, 08:18:52 pm »
Bibi will be history in Israel if that happens....he should have NEVER listened to Biden...FJB

It seems Bibi's taking the political hit --- based on many and long conversations with our friends in Israel.  They are confused, to put it mildly --- they don't understand how this attack could unfold as it did or the hesitation now--- and are becoming concerned that they have become a paper tiger. 

They're not (yet) pointing a finger at Biden.

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Re: BREAKING....Thread 5...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON
« Reply #508 on: October 23, 2023, 08:24:13 pm »
drip drip drip....Hamas will keep doing this to keep Israel/US from starting the ground war..



Exactly. Israel and Netanyahu's hands are tied. I'm furious as I'm sure they are. 9999hair out0000

This will result in an "unofficial" win for Hamas. And further assaults by them.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: BREAKING....Thread 5...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON
« Reply #509 on: October 23, 2023, 08:43:23 pm »
They have no hegemony to exert in the Mediterranean.  They're trying to assert relevance on the world stage, not hegemony.
True enough, their deals are in the Persian Gulf, but it's just around the corner. Chinese imports of Iranian oil are at an all time high.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2023, 08:46:26 pm by Smokin Joe »
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Re: BREAKING....Thread 5...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON
« Reply #511 on: October 23, 2023, 10:15:48 pm »
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Airstrikes now across the entire Gaza Strip with Explosions heard near Rafah to the South and the Beit Lahia Project in the North.
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Re: BREAKING....Thread 5...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON
« Reply #512 on: October 23, 2023, 10:16:30 pm »
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Israeli Self-Propelled Artillery is currently Hammering the Northern Gaza Strip.
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Re: BREAKING....Thread 5...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON
« Reply #513 on: October 23, 2023, 10:17:37 pm »
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The U.S. Department of Defense stated tonight that there is a High Possibility that Security Conditions for our Interests in the Middle East will continue to Deteriorate.
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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: BREAKING....Thread 5...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON
« Reply #515 on: October 23, 2023, 10:22:19 pm »
berdie wrote:
"Israel and Netanyahu's hands are tied. I'm furious as I'm sure they are.
This will result in an "unofficial" win for Hamas. And further assaults by them"


Indeed.
By not invading promptly, Israel may have already "lost".
They may eventually inflict sufficient damage upon hamas.
But it will not be "a win" for Israel, and what they gain will come at great cost.

A Fishrrman "hope it won't happen" prediction:
Israel is not going to invade Gaza. Even after amassing sufficient forces on the border.

I'd like to be proven wrong on this.
But...
... by delaying the invasion (almost certainly due to demands by the biden administration), the Israelis have lost something very important to them:
Their "moral right" to conduct a defensive military operation.

I'll explain.
Had Israel gone into Gaza with their army within, say, 48-72 hours of the 10/7 attack, they would have been seen as executing "defensive" maneuvers in the wake of those attacks.

But by "holding back" -- as they've done -- they've now lost their moral claim that the attack they'll mount is "defensive". Rather, it will be "offensive", and painted that way by the world media that dislikes (or outright hates) the Jews. They will transmogrify from the victims into the aggressors.

But there's another reason as well.
I've posted it before in recent threads, but no one responds to such posts:
It's... "Jewish guilt".

Since the suffering they had to endure in the hands of the Germans, the Jews of Israel have had (for lack of a better term) "a halo of moral superiority". And they've acted accordingly.

This is evidenced by their historical reluctance, even in war zones, to attack where civilian deaths might be involved.

If they were to eschew such behavior, and attack en masse in Gaza in circumstances where civilians (aside: how many pali males can be considered "civilians" when they've been taught from youth to hate the Jews and handle weapons?) will be either targeted or close enough to the targets to become collateral damage, they would LOSE that "moral superiority" that they have embraced (even touted) through the years.

They're afraid to do that.
They're held back.
By... Jewish guilt:
To refrain from inflicting upon others the same wrath that was exercised upon themselves.

That -- along with [either] requests or outright threats by the biden administration, along with "the guilt", will keep them from doing what needs to be done in Gaza.

Again, I'll be happy to be proven wrong on this prediction.
And you can hold me to it.

But I call 'em as I see 'em.
And that's how I'm calling this one.

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Re: BREAKING....Thread 5...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON
« Reply #516 on: October 23, 2023, 10:34:48 pm »
Bullshit!

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“We’re not dictating terms to the Israel Defense Forces,” John Kirby tells @marthamaccallum
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: BREAKING....Thread 5...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON
« Reply #517 on: October 23, 2023, 10:40:34 pm »

8:09 AM · Oct 23, 2023

Blinken says US is 'ready' to get involved in Israel-Hamas war if line is crossed: 'We won't hesitate'.  https://trib.al/oY2I7Si
[/quote]

@Right_in_Virginia

That was a typo. It SHOULD have read that Blinken  is ready  to DO a line.
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Re: BREAKING....Thread 5...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON
« Reply #518 on: October 23, 2023, 10:44:34 pm »

Yocheved Lifshitz and Nurit Cooper (also known as Nurit Yitzhak) who were held hostages by Palestinian Hamas terrorists, are seen being released.


The women, said to be in their 80s, were kidnapped from the Kibbutz Nir Oz, with their husbands still in captivity under Hamas.

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Re: BREAKING....Thread 5...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON
« Reply #519 on: October 23, 2023, 10:48:37 pm »
Quote
But by "holding back" -- as they've done -- they've now lost their moral claim that the attack they'll mount is "defensive". Rather, it will be "offensive", and painted that way by the world media that dislikes (or outright hates) the Jews. They will transmogrify from the victims into the aggressors.

Totally agree...that is one reason why Israel released audio/tapes of the Hamas Oct7th attacks today...to refresh peoples outrage..not sure that worked...

FJB
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Re: BREAKING....Thread 5...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON
« Reply #520 on: October 23, 2023, 10:53:39 pm »
Biden is 'pushing Israel to DELAY the ground invasion into Gaza to give more time for talks for Hamas hostages to be released'

    Biden trying to buy time to release more than 200 hostages held by Hamas
    Administration encouraged by release of two Americans on Friday
    Israel believed to be preparing for imminent ground invasion to destroy Hamas

By Emily Goodin, Senior U.S. Political Reporter

Published: 09:22 EDT, 23 October 2023 | Updated: 14:32 EDT, 23 October 2023

President Joe Biden is pressuring Israel to delay its ground invasion into Gaza in order to buy time to secure the release of more hostages.

Additionally, the Biden administration wants to buy time for more humanitarian aid to reach Palestinians and to prepare for possible attacks on U.S. interests in the region from Iran-backed groups, U.S. officials told The New York Times.

Israeli warplanes have been hitting targets across Gaza ahead of an expected ground invasion into the Hamas-led territory. Israeli officials want to eliminate Hamas - a goal the U.S. supports. Officials, however, worry such an invasion could lead to retaliation from Iran against American interests in the region.

White House spokesman John Kirby did not say the administration was pushing Israel to hold off its ground game but emphasized that America's focus is on the return of the hostages.

more
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12662085/Biden-Israel-DELAY-ground-invasion-Gaza-Hamas-hostages-released.html
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Re: BREAKING....Thread 5...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON
« Reply #521 on: October 23, 2023, 10:58:01 pm »
berdie wrote:
"Israel and Netanyahu's hands are tied. I'm furious as I'm sure they are.
This will result in an "unofficial" win for Hamas. And further assaults by them"


Indeed.
By not invading promptly, Israel may have already "lost".
They may eventually inflict sufficient damage upon hamas.
But it will not be "a win" for Israel, and what they gain will come at great cost.

A Fishrrman "hope it won't happen" prediction:
Israel is not going to invade Gaza. Even after amassing sufficient forces on the border.

I'd like to be proven wrong on this.
But...
... by delaying the invasion (almost certainly due to demands by the biden administration), the Israelis have lost something very important to them:
Their "moral right" to conduct a defensive military operation.

I'll explain.
Had Israel gone into Gaza with their army within, say, 48-72 hours of the 10/7 attack, they would have been seen as executing "defensive" maneuvers in the wake of those attacks.

But by "holding back" -- as they've done -- they've now lost their moral claim that the attack they'll mount is "defensive". Rather, it will be "offensive", and painted that way by the world media that dislikes (or outright hates) the Jews. They will transmogrify from the victims into the aggressors.

But there's another reason as well.
I've posted it before in recent threads, but no one responds to such posts:
It's... "Jewish guilt".

Since the suffering they had to endure in the hands of the Germans, the Jews of Israel have had (for lack of a better term) "a halo of moral superiority". And they've acted accordingly.

This is evidenced by their historical reluctance, even in war zones, to attack where civilian deaths might be involved.

If they were to eschew such behavior, and attack en masse in Gaza in circumstances where civilians (aside: how many pali males can be considered "civilians" when they've been taught from youth to hate the Jews and handle weapons?) will be either targeted or close enough to the targets to become collateral damage, they would LOSE that "moral superiority" that they have embraced (even touted) through the years.

They're afraid to do that.
They're held back.
By... Jewish guilt:
To refrain from inflicting upon others the same wrath that was exercised upon themselves.

That -- along with [either] requests or outright threats by the biden administration, along with "the guilt", will keep them from doing what needs to be done in Gaza.

Again, I'll be happy to be proven wrong on this prediction.
And you can hold me to it.

But I call 'em as I see 'em.
And that's how I'm calling this one.



I agree with most of your post @Fishrrman .

I can only disagree with Jewish guilt and halo of morality superiority. Although, I must say I identify with the Israeli moral superiority.

What I see is politics entering into this and destroying momentum. When you are locked into a land you need to defend, surrounded by antagonistic neighbors and risk the alienation of all allies what else can you do?

I agree, they should have gone in immediately. But perhaps the means to do so weren't there without huge casualties on the Israeli side. And I look back at other wars...the response wasn't that instantaneous either.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: BREAKING....Thread 5...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON
« Reply #523 on: October 23, 2023, 11:09:38 pm »
Totally agree...that is one reason why Israel released audio/tapes of the Hamas Oct7th attacks today...to refresh peoples outrage..not sure that worked...

FJB
I disagree that Israel is losing their window to respond. Yes, the tapes keep the atrocities fresh in the minds of a public bombarded by sympathy for terrorists in the media. That is good to help focus on the task at hand and the reason for it.

It took from August of 1990 to January of 1991 for the buildup in preparation to liberate Kuwait. While we would like to think Israel is immediately ready to conduct defensive operations, offense takes more planning and preparation, because attackers, especially when the attack is anticipated, are at a disadvantage.

No invasion of enemy held territory is conducted without a buildup of munitions and readying of troops, gathering of intelligence, and planning. (Think Anzio, Operation Torch, D-Day, the Tet Offensive, even the Blitzkreig across Europe. All have the same thing in common.)

The Israelis will be entering territory controlled by their enemy. Anything that can be done to lessen the defensive response needs to be done before that invasion. The hot-blooded quest for revenge is folly, the atrocities stand, and the response needs to be effective, not to sate the sanguineous passions of the civilized world, but to eliminate the threat.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2023, 11:35:05 pm by Smokin Joe »
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Re: BREAKING....Thread 5...Israel At War...OPERATION SWORDS OF IRON
« Reply #524 on: October 23, 2023, 11:09:42 pm »
U.S. officials predict 'significant escalation' against American troops amid Israel-Hamas war

Senior Pentagon officials predicted "significant escalation" of attacks against American troops in the Middle East during the Israel-Hamas war.

A senior defense official and a senior military official held a background briefing on Monday. Both officials referenced Iran as a malignant force.

"We see a prospect for much more significant escalation against U.S. forces and personnel in the near term," the defense official explained. "And let’s be clear about it: the road leads back to Iran."

The defense official also said that the Iranian government is currently equipping, funding and directing various Middle Eastern partners, including Lebanese Hezbollah militia groups.

"I think it’s fair to say when you see this uptick in activity in attacks by many of these groups, there’s Iranian fingerprints all over it," the defense official said.

Fox News Digital's Greg Wehner contributed to this report.
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