Author Topic: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago  (Read 101827 times)

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #850 on: August 10, 2022, 06:27:48 pm »
You now are making no sense.

This has to do with the petition to the US SCOTUS on Texas vs Pennsylvania submitted/supported by AGs of 20 states.

This is a fundamental constitutional issue only between states, with SCOTUS as arbiter.  This is not an election issue.

Try to keep up.

... And those states are trying to do... what exactly... TO Pennsylvania?

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #851 on: August 10, 2022, 06:46:06 pm »
A list of things that were taken is not the warrant.

Exactly.  We need three things right now:

1)  The Warrant in its original form, no redactions.
2)  The complete inventory of what was removed.
3)  The application for the Warrant.  Again no redactions.  A copy that includes any last-minute changes and margin notes.

The FBI has proven to be a dishonest Party with no expectation of truth or candor in any of their activities.  We must be able to verify every one of their actions, every step of the way, especially if they were able to cut off Trump's privately owned security cameras.

We will probably get less than half of this.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #853 on: August 10, 2022, 07:06:15 pm »
Thanks, I know what it says.

It never hurts to refresh our memories:

Texas v. Pennsylvania, 592 U.S. ___ (2020), was a lawsuit filed at the United States Supreme Court contesting the administration of the 2020 presidential election in certain states, in which Joe Biden defeated incumbent Donald Trump.

Quote
Filed by Texas State Attorney General Ken Paxton on December 8, 2020, under the Supreme Court's original jurisdiction, Texas v. Pennsylvania alleged that Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin violated the United States Constitution by changing election procedures through non-legislative means – thus violating the Independent state legislature theory. The suit sought to temporarily withhold the certified vote count from these four states prior to the Electoral College vote on December 14. The suit was filed after about 90 lawsuits arising from disputes over the election results filed by Trump and the Republican Party had failed in numerous state and federal courts.

The suit had been drafted by a team of lawyers with ties to the Trump presidential campaign. Paxton agreed to file the case after other state attorneys general declined to do so. The Solicitor General of Texas Kyle D. Hawkins objected to the suit and refused to let his name be added. Paxton hired Lawrence J. Joseph, who had helped draft the suit, as special counsel to assist with the suit.[1]

Within one day of Texas's filing, Trump, over 100 Republican Representatives, and 18 Republican state attorneys general filed motions to support the case.[2][3] Trump referred to this case as "the big one" of the election-challenging lawsuits.[4] Attorneys general for the defendant states, joined in briefs submitted by their counterparts from twenty other states, two territories, and the District of Columbia,[5] urged the Court to refuse the case, with Pennsylvania's brief calling it a "seditious abuse of the judicial process".[6] Legal experts argued that the case was not likely to be heard and not likely to succeed if it did get heard, and that it was thus a "Hail Mary" action.[7][8][9]

The Supreme Court issued orders on December 11, declining to hear the case on the basis that Texas lacked standing under Article III of the Constitution to challenge the results of the election held by another state.[10][11]...

Emphasis added by poster.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Pennsylvania

The case made no mention of fraud or any other such thing. It was solely about violations of the UNITED States Constitution and, I will forever believe, should have been heard!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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Online mountaineer

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #854 on: August 10, 2022, 07:22:22 pm »
Julie Kelly 🇺🇸
@julie_kelly2

No biggie, Chris Wray ran an FBI informant into Trump World to root out…a violation of the Presidential Records Act. Sounds legit

2:01 PM · Aug 10, 2022

Julie Kelly 🇺🇸
@julie_kelly2
Cant say this enough: the guy in charge of the Washington FBI office was head of Michigan FBI office during Whitmer fednapping.
2:05 PM · Aug 10, 2022

Julie Kelly 🇺🇸
@julie_kelly2
That means an informant was working directly with an FBI handling agent. Who was it? Was it out of FBI WFO or FLA?   And given the quality of informants in Whitmer, I can’t even imagine who the FBI drudged up for this mission.
2:12 PM · Aug 10, 2022·

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #855 on: August 10, 2022, 07:27:50 pm »
The case made no mention of fraud or any other such thing. It was solely about violations of the UNITED States Constitution and, I will forever believe, should have been heard!

It makes no difference what words it contained @Bigun .
It was a direct assault on a sovereign state attempting to decertify what that state (in its own right)
declared and certified as valid.

Thank God it wasn't heard. I don't think you are looking at the precedent it would set.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #856 on: August 10, 2022, 07:32:39 pm »
@Smokin Joe

It is not determined what authority was given through law or precedent by that legislature to appointees or other elected officials... (in the case of Penn)

And who is to determine that? Why the state legislature, through their own means. Their own acquiescence is their verdict.

I believe the firewall set up by the founders around election law was absolute for a reason, and breaching that firewall will have unintended consequences.

The legislature has the only standing and in not exercising their duties it is left to the people of Penn to provide remedy.

And I will stand on that till I die, friend.
Well stand there. Why even have rules if no one is going to go by them?

As for the legislatures abdicating their sworn duties to unelected bureaucrats, a pox on them and their houses!

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Article I, Section 4, Clause 1: The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 07:34:06 pm by Smokin Joe »
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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #857 on: August 10, 2022, 07:33:12 pm »
It makes no difference what words it contained @Bigun .
It was a direct assault on a sovereign state attempting to decertify what that state (in its own right)
declared and certified as valid.

Thank God it wasn't heard. I don't think you are looking at the precedent it would set.

I've looked at it from every angle possible and you and I will NEVER agree if that remains your position @roamer_1 !

My position, violating the Constitution should NEVER be tolerated and states most assuredly do have standing to ensure that it isn't, will never change!

And BTW: What the hell could possibly be wrong with setting a president that says "Violations oof the constitution will not be tolerated"?

« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 07:51:26 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline Sighlass

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #858 on: August 10, 2022, 07:33:51 pm »
Maybe you should actually read the statute instead of posting a photo of it from some leftwing website.

Lol, @leftwing website cut...  You posted a link, but the bottom of the link (which you didn't quote) is one of the sections Trump amended... and it does exactly as I claimed it did, it ups the penalty for taking documents...



Reference : Jan. 19, 2018, 132 Stat. 19
« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 07:47:34 pm by Sighlass »
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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #859 on: August 10, 2022, 07:34:17 pm »
The Left is Now Desperately Trying to Change the Meaning of the Word ‘Raid’

https://legalinsurrection.com/2022/08/the-left-is-now-desperately-trying-to-change-the-meaning-of-the-word-raid/

“It was a lawful search pursuant to a warrant. Don’t let Trump and pals frame the messaging.”

Following the FBI raid of Donald Trump’s Florida home, some people on the left have decided that the word “raid” is too harsh and makes them sound like the authoritarians they are, so they want to change it.

Changing language to change the perception of reality is something the left is doing with increasing regularity. They just did it with “recession.”

MSNBC host and former Kamala Harris staffer Symone Sanders was one of the early adopters here.

FOX News reports:

    Kamala Harris aide-turned-MSNBC host pleads: Don’t call FBI Mar-a-Lago search ‘a raid’

    Former Kamala Harris aide Symone Sanders, now an MSNBC weekend host, pleaded with people to stop calling the FBI search of former President Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence a “raid” on Tuesday.

More at link.

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #860 on: August 10, 2022, 07:36:39 pm »
Well stand there. Why even have rules if no one is going to go by them?

As for the legislatures abdicating their sworn duties to unelected bureaucrats, a pox on them and their houses!

 :amen: @Smokin Joe Well said!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #861 on: August 10, 2022, 07:48:37 pm »
Well stand there. Why even have rules if no one is going to go by them?

WHO SAYS the rules were not followed? TEXAS? It ain't their business.
Meanwhile Penn State, by way of their legislature, the actual and only governing body says it was legit. The rules WERE followed (or close enough to satisfy them)... CERTIFIED legit. Sovereign certified. And their opinion, by their acquiescence, is the only one that matters.

Quote
As for the legislatures abdicating their sworn duties to unelected bureaucrats, a pox on them and their houses!

Happens all the time. What are you supposed to do when the houses are not in session and sh*t comes up? Call the whole mess into session to create special processes because of a flood or a tornado? And how many times has that already occurred (or occurred by acquiescence) to form precedence already on the books?

Look. I AGREE with you in spirit. I know there were shenanigans going on. I would expect the state to pitch what was not legit on their own.

But forcing them to decertify by way of the court? They are no longer sovereign. The court is.
They are no longer the authors of their laws. The court is.

The ONLY people that have the right to call them on the carpet and retain the sovereignty where it belongs is the People of Pennsylvania. THAT court I will listen to.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #862 on: August 10, 2022, 07:56:55 pm »
I've looked at it from every angle possible and you and I will NEVER agree if that remains your position @roamer_1 !


That's fine @Bigun  :beer: We have already proven we don't have to agree on everything.

Quote
My position, violating the Constitution should NEVER be tolerated and states most assuredly do have standing to ensure that it isn't, will never change!

I don't think the Constitution was violated... I think what you propose would be far worse.

Quote
And BTW: What the hell could possibly be wrong with setting a president that says "Violations oof the constitution will not be tolerated"?[/size]

Because if successful, every_single mishap in every election will be seized upon to decertify results and the winner of that mess will be the liberals. Mark my words.

That's why that firewall is there.

Offline mystery-ak

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #863 on: August 10, 2022, 07:59:36 pm »

Federal Judge Orders DOJ to Provide Copy of Trump Raid Warrant
Jon Dougherty August 10, 2022

A federal judge on Wednesday ordered the Biden Justice Department to produce a copy of a search warrant executed at his Mar-a-Lago estate, where the FBI conducted a nine-hour-plus search on Monday.

Federal Magistrate Judge Bruce Reinhart ordered the DOJ to “file a Response to the Motion to Unseal” the warrant after requests were made by the Times-Union, a newspaper located in Albany, N.Y., as well as the conservative legal group Judicial Watch.

The judge said that the DOJ must respond no later than Aug. 15, reports said.

Reinhart signed off on the FBI’s warrant to search the former president’s palatial home in South Florida in what he said was an “unannounced raid on my home.” He took a leave of absence from a local U.S. Attorney’s office more than 10 years ago to represent employees of convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein after they had gotten immunity during the lengthy probe of the now-late financier for sex trafficking.

The New York Post added:

Reinhart was elevated to magistrate judge in March 2018 after 10 years in private practice. That November, the Miami Herald reported that he had represented several of Epstein’s employees — including, by Reinhart’s own admission to the outlet, Epstein’s pilots; his scheduler, Sarah Kellen; and Nadia Marcinkova, who Epstein once reportedly described as his “Yugoslavian sex slave.”

Kellen and Marcinkova were among Epstein’s lieutenants who were granted immunity as part of a controversial 2007 deal with federal prosecutors that allowed the pervert to plead guilty to state charges rather than federal crimes. Epstein wound up serving just 13 months in county jail and was granted work release.


According to the Herald in 2018, the judge was later identified in a civil lawsuit accusing him of violating DOJ policies by changing sides during the Epstein investigation. The paper went on to suggest that Reinhart used insider information regarding the investigation in order to gain favor with Epstein.

Reinhart denied that he had done anything wrong in a 2011 affidavit while going on to claim that since he did not get involved in any federal probe of Epstein, he, therefore, had no access to any inside information regarding the case.

Earlier, Trump attorney Lindsey Halligan said that the warrant was “sealed” when agents showed up to search Trump’s estate.

Another Trump lawyer, Christian Bobb, meanwhile, told streaming network Real America’s Voice: “When I arrived and kind of announced myself as the legal representation for President Trump. I asked to see a copy of the warrant.”

“Initially they refused and said, ‘You know, we don’t have to show it to you.’ And there was a little bit of an exchange about whether it was appropriate to withhold the warrant when you’re searching the residence of the former president, who’s likely to be the Republican nominee in the next election, though they conceded and let me see it, they did not give me a copy of it right away, but they did let me see it,” she went on, according to Mediaite.

“It was very, I would say, thin. And as you can tell from public records, the affidavit, the supporting documentation of what the probable cause was to obtain the warrant has been sealed,” Bobb continued.

Mediaite said that several observers opined that Trump and his attorneys likely had a copy of the warrant beforehand but Bobb dismissed those claims.

“So we’re not allowed to see that. We have to go to court to request the judge to release that which, you know, may or may not happen. So we don’t know what the probable cause is, why they were allowed to search, but they did,” she reported.

“They also said that they were looking for classified documents, evidence of a crime as far as classified documents go,” Bobb explained.

more
https://conservativebrief.com/federal-14-65424/?utm_source=CB&utm_medium=DJD
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Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #864 on: August 10, 2022, 08:00:46 pm »
I do.

I do too. Sometimes you need expert advice.
The Republic is lost.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #865 on: August 10, 2022, 08:01:25 pm »
"Useful idiot holding a sign 'arrest Trump' in NY is asked to explain his statement that Trump should be arrested for provable criminal acts "  (Video)


https://mobile.twitter.com/wlctv_ca/status/1557485039541071873

Offline sneakypete

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #866 on: August 10, 2022, 08:04:13 pm »
Unless what they were looking for has nothing to do with Chain of Evidence and more about retrieving something Tumpy was holding over someone else...  :whistle:

@roamer_1

It doesn't even have anything to do with that.

What it was all about was  the political drama. Their purpose was to try to make Trump SEEM to be guilty of everything under the sun in order to try to convince undecided voters to support some RINO instead of him in order to make it easier for the Dims to win the next Presidential election.

You watch,the alleged "evidence of Trump wrong-doing" will be leaked to Dim news sources to report as facts and speculate about if Trump will be forced to drop his run for President in order to defend himself in court..

This is nothing more and nothing less than political theater.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #867 on: August 10, 2022, 08:06:52 pm »
@roamer_1

It doesn't even have anything to do with that.

What it was all about was  the political drama. Their purpose was to try to make Trump SEEM to be guilty of everything under the sun in order to try to convince undecided voters to support some RINO instead of him in order to make it easier for the Dims to win the next Presidential election.

You watch,the alleged "evidence of Trump wrong-doing" will be leaked to Dim news sources to report as facts and speculate about if Trump will be forced to drop his run for President in order to defend himself in court..

This is nothing more and nothing less than political theater.

@sneakypete

Then that's a huge risk, politically, and just as desperate.
And one which has already backfired big time.

Offline Kamaji

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #868 on: August 10, 2022, 08:08:51 pm »
Federal Judge Orders DOJ to Provide Copy of Trump Raid Warrant
Jon Dougherty August 10, 2022

A federal judge on Wednesday ordered the Biden Justice Department to produce a copy of a search warrant executed at his Mar-a-Lago estate, where the FBI conducted a nine-hour-plus search on Monday.

Federal Magistrate Judge Bruce Reinhart ordered the DOJ to “file a Response to the Motion to Unseal” the warrant after requests were made by the Times-Union, a newspaper located in Albany, N.Y., as well as the conservative legal group Judicial Watch.

The judge said that the DOJ must respond no later than Aug. 15, reports said.

Reinhart signed off on the FBI’s warrant to search the former president’s palatial home in South Florida in what he said was an “unannounced raid on my home.” He took a leave of absence from a local U.S. Attorney’s office more than 10 years ago to represent employees of convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein after they had gotten immunity during the lengthy probe of the now-late financier for sex trafficking.

The New York Post added:

Reinhart was elevated to magistrate judge in March 2018 after 10 years in private practice. That November, the Miami Herald reported that he had represented several of Epstein’s employees — including, by Reinhart’s own admission to the outlet, Epstein’s pilots; his scheduler, Sarah Kellen; and Nadia Marcinkova, who Epstein once reportedly described as his “Yugoslavian sex slave.”

Kellen and Marcinkova were among Epstein’s lieutenants who were granted immunity as part of a controversial 2007 deal with federal prosecutors that allowed the pervert to plead guilty to state charges rather than federal crimes. Epstein wound up serving just 13 months in county jail and was granted work release.


According to the Herald in 2018, the judge was later identified in a civil lawsuit accusing him of violating DOJ policies by changing sides during the Epstein investigation. The paper went on to suggest that Reinhart used insider information regarding the investigation in order to gain favor with Epstein.

Reinhart denied that he had done anything wrong in a 2011 affidavit while going on to claim that since he did not get involved in any federal probe of Epstein, he, therefore, had no access to any inside information regarding the case.

Earlier, Trump attorney Lindsey Halligan said that the warrant was “sealed” when agents showed up to search Trump’s estate.

Another Trump lawyer, Christian Bobb, meanwhile, told streaming network Real America’s Voice: “When I arrived and kind of announced myself as the legal representation for President Trump. I asked to see a copy of the warrant.”

“Initially they refused and said, ‘You know, we don’t have to show it to you.’ And there was a little bit of an exchange about whether it was appropriate to withhold the warrant when you’re searching the residence of the former president, who’s likely to be the Republican nominee in the next election, though they conceded and let me see it, they did not give me a copy of it right away, but they did let me see it,” she went on, according to Mediaite.

“It was very, I would say, thin. And as you can tell from public records, the affidavit, the supporting documentation of what the probable cause was to obtain the warrant has been sealed,” Bobb continued.

Mediaite said that several observers opined that Trump and his attorneys likely had a copy of the warrant beforehand but Bobb dismissed those claims.

“So we’re not allowed to see that. We have to go to court to request the judge to release that which, you know, may or may not happen. So we don’t know what the probable cause is, why they were allowed to search, but they did,” she reported.

“They also said that they were looking for classified documents, evidence of a crime as far as classified documents go,” Bobb explained.

more
https://conservativebrief.com/federal-14-65424/?utm_source=CB&utm_medium=DJD

Very interesting. 

Offline EdinVA

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #869 on: August 10, 2022, 08:09:04 pm »
It makes no difference what words it contained @Bigun .
It was a direct assault on a sovereign state attempting to decertify what that state (in its own right)
declared and certified as valid.

Thank God it wasn't heard. I don't think you are looking at the precedent it would set.

@roamer_1
Just a question... If the big 5 states, who are winner take all states, manipulate vote counts to one candidate then the votes for the smaller states are effectively nullified illegally.  I am not sure why a state trying to protect their voters don't have standing when the impact is larger than the "offending" state.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #870 on: August 10, 2022, 08:10:32 pm »
And he would be a fool to leave such things laying around the house... That they went looking seems an act of desperation.

But then, we won't know one way or another until that card gets played. If it can be played.  :shrug:


@roamer_1

For all practical purposes,the "card" HAS been played.

Don't forget,those of us who pay attention to politics every day are a tiny minority of the total population that votes.

There are lots of people that are "Ah alwayz vote Dim/Republican causen my pappy alwaz voted Dim/Republican",and they only pay real attention to politics the last 30 days or so of an election cycle. Even then,many of them are only paying attention so they can remember the names of the Republican or Dim candidates so they know who to vote for.

It is THESE people,and the legendary "undecided voters" that the Dims are shooting for with this dog and pony show.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 08:32:07 pm by sneakypete »
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #871 on: August 10, 2022, 08:10:34 pm »
That's fine @Bigun  :beer: We have already proven we don't have to agree on everything.

I don't think the Constitution was violated... I think what you propose would be far worse.

Because if successful, every_single mishap in every election will be seized upon to decertify results and the winner of that mess will be the liberals. Mark my words.

That's why that firewall is there.

You don't think the constitution was violated?  How in the HELL can you say that when the  plain language therein says "Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct..." when that is clearly not what happened in 2020!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline sneakypete

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #872 on: August 10, 2022, 08:17:53 pm »
Why is Trump choosing to not disclose the warrant?

@Kamaji

Because doing so would help the Dims publicize their bogus charges in the minds of Sam and Sally Stoopid.

Why help the people who are attacking you? Let THEM go before the cameras and state their outrageous charges and then try to defend them,while you remain cool,calm,and collected,and just dismiss it all as nonsense and a political attack without merit.

It's called "Staretergy",or sumpin close.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #873 on: August 10, 2022, 08:18:00 pm »
@roamer_1
Just a question... If the big 5 states, who are winner take all states, manipulate vote counts to one candidate then the votes for the smaller states are effectively nullified illegally.  I am not sure why a state trying to protect their voters don't have standing when the impact is larger than the "offending" state.

@EdinVA

First of all, this is getting out of hand. This is becoming more of a hijack than a sidebar on this thread. And it's all been fought over before.

I don't care what the five states did, the reason other states don't have standing is because those states are sovereign. Those states certified their results. That cannot be undone outside of their own legislature.

And in being the sole author and arbitrator of their sovereign laws, the legislatures themselves are not the issue (even though they are in the instance)

What is at play here is that firewall that buttresses the certification of the 50 states. Tearing that down will have the exact opposite effect of what you envision.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #874 on: August 10, 2022, 08:21:23 pm »
I didn't post a link Pete... but here is one to refresh your memory on one of Trump's gun grabs, there was more. @sneakypete

https://dailycaller.com/2018/02/28/trump-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second/

@Sighlass

So you think Trump,as President,being in favor of removing guns from the possession of people whose own families think they are disturbed and dangerous makes him a gun-grabber?

Seriously? After all,who knows more about the emotional stability of someone than their own family?
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #875 on: August 10, 2022, 08:24:39 pm »
You don't think the constitution was violated?  How in the HELL can you say that when the  plain language therein says "Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct..." when that is clearly not what happened in 2020!

@Bigun

The legislature DID direct by way of their acquiescence. They certified it as true and valid. And who knows what powers they have given to their agents in their stead? That is a massive monkey knot, full of internal election law and precedence, and not as easy as you declare.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #876 on: August 10, 2022, 08:24:49 pm »

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1557373781013942273

@mystery-ak

I  can't even begin to imagine how horrified and embarrassed the children of those men in that photo must be to see their fathers photo splashed all across the world and generally referred to as things like "goons" and "lawless thugs".
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #877 on: August 10, 2022, 08:29:46 pm »
It makes no difference what words it contained @Bigun .
It was a direct assault on a sovereign state attempting to decertify what that state (in its own right) declared and certified as valid.

No, that's wrong.    As powerful as our Founders wanted individual states to be, they did not give the states, any state, the authority or power to override or ignore the Constitution of the United States.

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #878 on: August 10, 2022, 08:30:25 pm »
@Sighlass

So you think Trump,as President,being in favor of removing guns from the possession of people whose own families think they are disturbed and dangerous makes him a gun-grabber?

Seriously? After all,who knows more about the emotional stability of someone than their own family?

@sneakypete

YES. My ex would have had me red tagged and all my guns taken from me as a matter of course.
Gun-grabbing bullcrap straight out of the liberal handbook. Then you'll need to see a shrink to get your guns back, and shrinks are invariably liberal a*******, who will forever remove your ability to own a weapon until they deem it reasonable... Which will be never.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #879 on: August 10, 2022, 08:30:38 pm »
@sneakypete

Then that's a huge risk, politically, and just as desperate.
And one which has already backfired big time.

@roamer_1

It is no personal risk at all to the people behind it because they will never be charged with anything.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Sighlass

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #880 on: August 10, 2022, 08:34:15 pm »
@Sighlass

So you think Trump,as President,being in favor of removing guns from the possession of people whose own families think they are disturbed and dangerous makes him a gun-grabber?

Seriously? After all,who knows more about the emotional stability of someone than their own family?

I think that any law that someone can accuse you of something and the law act on it without due course of law (being able to defend oneself) pertaining guns is dangerous.

Family does not always have one's best interest at heart. Neither does government.

So you want to go on record in favor of red flag laws ! If one of your kin decides that "chemo brain" is reason to take away your guns, you would be in favor of it?

As you know, the law's problem is the lack of common sense in administering it. Some suit decides they don't like you, you have lost your rights.

Off subject, you can have the last word.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 08:35:42 pm by Sighlass »
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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #881 on: August 10, 2022, 08:36:15 pm »
No, that's wrong.    As powerful as our Founders wanted individual states to be, they did not give the states, any state, the authority or power to override or ignore the Constitution of the United States.

No, it is not wrong, and I will submit that the Constitution was not violated, on the grounds that bonified officials were acting as agents of the legislature in their absence... As proven by the legislatures' acquiescence and certification. The legislature HAS 'seen fit'.

And that does not really matter, because all you will do is shoot state sovereignty full of holes big enough for the feds to crawl through.

And that is a big damn mistake. Huge.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #882 on: August 10, 2022, 08:36:19 pm »
Lol, @leftwing website cut...  You posted a link, but the bottom of the link (which you didn't quote) is one of the sections Trump amended... and it does exactly as I claimed it did, it ups the penalty for taking documents...



Reference : Jan. 19, 2018, 132 Stat. 19

I posted 18 U.S. Code § 1924(a) verbatim.  I also provided a link.  Again:

18 U.S. Code § 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material

(a)Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.

(b)For purposes of this section, the provision of documents and materials to the Congress shall not constitute an offense under subsection (a).

(c)In this section, the term “classified information of the United States” means information originated, owned, or possessed by the United States Government concerning the national defense or foreign relations of the United States that has been determined pursuant to law or Executive order to require protection against unauthorized disclosure in the interests of national security.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1924



Again, we are not dealing with classified documents here.  This is a National Archives issue.  Secondly, Trump was not a officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States when he came in possession of the boxes.  Thirdly, Trump did not take the boxes to his residence.  They were packed and delivered by the GSA.   Please read the statute.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #883 on: August 10, 2022, 08:37:20 pm »
@sneakypete

Quote
YES. My ex would have had me red tagged and all my guns taken from me as a matter of course.
Gun-grabbing bullcrap straight out of the liberal handbook.


Maybe in the big northern cities,but I THINK that in most of America a DA is NOT going to take such charges seriously from an ex.

Now,a current wife with their children and other relatives and neighbors backing her up is a different story.

Quote
Then you'll need to see a shrink to get your guns back, and shrinks are invariably liberal a*******, who will forever remove your ability to own a weapon until they deem it reasonable... Which will be never.

I agree,IF it gets that far. Most sheriffs will check the arrest records and ask the deputies who patrol the area where this man lives to see if he has ever been any trouble before they make these decisions.

Sheriffs don't like being caught in the middle of marital squabbles any more than the rest of us.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Hoodat

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #884 on: August 10, 2022, 08:39:43 pm »
Exactly.  We need three things right now:

1)  The Warrant in its original form, no redactions.
2)  The complete inventory of what was removed.
3)  The application for the Warrant.  Again no redactions.  A copy that includes any last-minute changes and margin notes.

And (4) - why in the hell did it take nine hours when they knew in advance what boxes they wanted and where they were located.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline sneakypete

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #885 on: August 10, 2022, 08:40:22 pm »
Quote
I think that any law that someone can accuse you of something and the law act on it without due course of law (being able to defend oneself) pertaining guns is dangerous.

You should have stopped at "I think",because you are not thinking.


Quote
Family does not always have one's best interest at heart. Neither does government.

So you want to go on record in favor of red flag laws ! If one of your kin decides that "chemo brain" is reason to take away your guns, you would be in favor of it?

As you know, the law's problem is the lack of common sense in administering it. Some suit decides they don't like you, you have lost your rights.

Off subject, you can have the last word.


Will they be assisted by Klingons?
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Hoodat

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #886 on: August 10, 2022, 08:43:04 pm »
"Useful idiot holding a sign 'arrest Trump' in NY is asked to explain his statement that Trump should be arrested for provable criminal acts "  (Video)


https://mobile.twitter.com/wlctv_ca/status/1557485039541071873

This is every liberal on the planet.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #887 on: August 10, 2022, 08:43:54 pm »


Maybe in the big northern cities,but I THINK that in most of America a DA is NOT going to take such charges seriously from an ex.

Now,a current wife with their children and other relatives and neighbors backing her up is a different story.

@sneakypete

Well, she was not officially my ex during the divorce, and she drug me through every damn knothole she could find, and the state stepped and fetched.

Quote
I agree,IF it gets that far. Most sheriffs will check the arrest records and ask the deputies who patrol the area where this man lives to see if he has ever been any trouble before they make these decisions.

Sheriffs don't like being caught in the middle of marital squabbles any more than the rest of us.

Goes down easy in the speaking of it, but I'm a Good Ol Boy, and I have enough sheet from my yoot to turn that theory on it's head. No, they'd come a'runnin. They always do.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 08:46:40 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #888 on: August 10, 2022, 08:45:42 pm »
Breaking911
@Breaking911

NEW: Trump says room FBI breached at Mar-A-Lago had two locks installed at the request of the Feds in June.

"A surprise attack, POLITICS, and all the while our Country is going to HELL!"



4:21 PM · Aug 10, 2022  Twitter Web App

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #889 on: August 10, 2022, 08:49:10 pm »
@Bigun

The legislature DID direct by way of their acquiescence. They certified it as true and valid. And who knows what powers they have given to their agents in their stead? That is a massive monkey knot, full of internal election law and precedence, and not as easy as you declare.

NO! They did no such thing and the governors made damned sure that the legislature had no opportunity to object to what was done! @roamer_1
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #890 on: August 10, 2022, 08:49:19 pm »
Breaking911
@Breaking911




Maybe there was something in those documents that implicated Biden for something.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #891 on: August 10, 2022, 08:50:59 pm »
NO! They did no such thing and the governors made damned sure that the legislature had no opportunity to object to what was done! @roamer_1

Did the state certify or not?

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #892 on: August 10, 2022, 08:52:41 pm »
No, that's wrong.    As powerful as our Founders wanted individual states to be, they did not give the states, any state, the authority or power to override or ignore the Constitution of the United States.

Exactly right @Right_in_Virginia In fact, they tried to ensure the exact opposite would prevail.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #893 on: August 10, 2022, 08:53:31 pm »
No, it is not wrong,

If you'd like to continue to discuss this, I've got two humble requests:  the first:  Read the full filing and second:  start a separate thread.   Continuing the discussion here is interrupting an important thread.

Thanks @roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #894 on: August 10, 2022, 08:53:59 pm »
Did the state certify or not?

Yes! But not the legislatures as you are desperately trying to imply!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #895 on: August 10, 2022, 08:54:43 pm »
I posted 18 U.S. Code § 1924(a) verbatim.  I also provided a link.  Again:

18 U.S. Code § 1924 - Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material

(a)Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.

(b)For purposes of this section, the provision of documents and materials to the Congress shall not constitute an offense under subsection (a).

(c)In this section, the term “classified information of the United States” means information originated, owned, or possessed by the United States Government concerning the national defense or foreign relations of the United States that has been determined pursuant to law or Executive order to require protection against unauthorized disclosure in the interests of national security.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1924



Again, we are not dealing with classified documents here.  This is a National Archives issue.  Secondly, Trump was not a officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States when he came in possession of the boxes.  Thirdly, Trump did not take the boxes to his residence.  They were packed and delivered by the GSA.   Please read the statute.

Your very link contains this at the bottom, which shows that Trump changed the time of imprisonment from 1 year to five. My original claim was that Trump upped the penalty to felon status of 5 years. I didn't nothing more, nothing less.



My picture I posted showed what Trump did to "up" the time to felony amounts of 5 years. He didn't write the changes I imagine, but he signed them.  I hunted down what "132 Stat. 19" was (at least the part that pertained to what I claimed, ie longer jail times).

You may have very valid points on whether Trump violated the rules or not. That is another subject of which I take great interest reading to the best of my ability (I enjoy the discourse between members here). I just take offense that I am some left wing surfing person that knowingly posted something not true (that Trump didn't "up" the penalty for violating taking documents deemed sensitive).
« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 08:57:32 pm by Sighlass »
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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #896 on: August 10, 2022, 08:54:45 pm »
https://legalinsurrection.com/2022/08/the-left-is-now-desperately-trying-to-change-the-meaning-of-the-word-raid/

Hmmmm....
Lemmmeeesseeee here....

"Insurrections" are fine,
But "raids" are not...

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #897 on: August 10, 2022, 08:55:31 pm »
If you'd like to continue to discuss this, I've got two humble requests:  the first:  Read the full filing and second:  start a separate thread.   Continuing the discussion here is interrupting an important thread.

Thanks @roamer_1

It's not him @Right_in_Virginia it's me and I will honor your request.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Hoodat

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #898 on: August 10, 2022, 08:55:38 pm »
If you'd like to continue to discuss this, I've got two humble requests:  the first:  Read the full filing and second:  start a separate thread.   Continuing the discussion here is interrupting an important thread.

Proposed thread title:   Is it the Court's job to fix what the People allowed to happen?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

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Re: BREAKING>>FBI raids Trump’s Mar-a-Lago
« Reply #899 on: August 10, 2022, 08:56:44 pm »
If you'd like to continue to discuss this, I've got two humble requests:  the first:  Read the full filing and second:  start a separate thread.   Continuing the discussion here is interrupting an important thread.

Thanks @roamer_1

@Right_in_Virginia

I am already fully informed of the filing.

And I have already stated that I thought this should end - That the sidebar is turning into a hijack.
I am only responding to others. That is not my fault. I have said more than once this has all been fought over before.

 :shrug: