Author Topic: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot  (Read 10697 times)

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Offline corbe

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2018, 04:21:55 am »
   50 little laboratory's, I believe was the Founders intent.


    My Gov, Abbott, will never approve anything above medicinal and I'm Ok with that.

    The less the GOV is involved in my Vices, the better.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2018, 04:36:35 am »
   50 little laboratory's, I believe was the Founders intent.


That's right... I started out a WoD supporter, but over the years my more federalist compadres brought me to the conclusion that the state has the right, and all that the fed should control is interstate and international interdiction. They have no business telling states what to do in matters regarding (food and) drugs.

Upending federal statutes is alright by me.... Replacing them with more federal statutes seems to be a pot/kettle thing.

Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2018, 04:39:05 am »
Which is a fraction of drunk driving related fatalities in that state. Yet we don't ban alcohol, we blame the individual choice of the person involved. Just like we don't blame the gun for the shooting but the choice of the individual.

http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics-washington.html

Also, gang violence and deaths associated with that have crashed since Washington legalized it.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/marijuana/article163750293.html

It is also killing Mexican drug cartels.

http://time.com/3801889/us-legalization-marijuana-trade/

Well that being true why not allow all drugs?  Because at the end of the day Marijuana still alters a person and it is a drug. 

Something not even touched in this discussion is buying weed with welfare.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/no-welfare-for-weed-bill-passes-in-the-house/

The law only stops shops from having ATM's.  They can go to any ATM and draw out the money to go get their weed.

Want to know where the money from the weed tax goes in Washington?

http://kuow.org/post/pot-brings-168m-washington-state-how-do-we-spend-it

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Offline corbe

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2018, 04:45:19 am »
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2018, 05:49:35 am »
I disagree with you for once @Mesaclone   This state to state thing always causes troubles.  People will drive over state lines to get pot which could lead to legal complications.

Most people are not addictive personalities, but for those who are, anything can be addictive.  Pot is probably the safest thing to be addicted to other than chocolate.
If the state to state problems with CCW permits can 'cause troubles', then the pot laws can, too. Either States can have their own laws, or this is a matter so important to our Nation that Federal control is mandated, such as with explosives, nuclear materials, etc.

As far as people going to legal states from ones where it is illegal, to pick some up to sell at home, it is already happening, especially on the interstates leading in and out of Colorado.

And, yep, people get busted.

The problem I have is there is no way to predict the effects of any single hit off a joint, or other 'dose' unit of marijuana on any individual. Because of this, the ability to determine who is too 'baked' to drive becomes a post accident issue, and not something which can be prevented (like actually having only one or two beers). Unpredictable effects in the consumption of any substance can yield unpredictable results, especially if motor vehicles, heavy equipment, or any of a host of other objects which can cause significant damage, serious injury, or death.
Similarly, there remains to be a quick field sobriety test for the excessive consumption of marijuana while operating a motor vehicle. Other tests for impairment remain objective (at the discretion of the officer), except for a present/not present result.
 
There is along list of professions I want to show up for work unimpaired by any drug, except maybe a tad more alert from their morning coffee.
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2018, 06:11:28 am »
If the state to state problems with CCW permits can 'cause troubles', then the pot laws can, too. Either States can have their own laws, or this is a matter so important to our Nation that Federal control is mandated, such as with explosives, nuclear materials, etc.

As far as people going to legal states from ones where it is illegal, to pick some up to sell at home, it is already happening, especially on the interstates leading in and out of Colorado.

And, yep, people get busted.

The problem I have is there is no way to predict the effects of any single hit off a joint, or other 'dose' unit of marijuana on any individual. Because of this, the ability to determine who is too 'baked' to drive becomes a post accident issue, and not something which can be prevented (like actually having only one or two beers). Unpredictable effects in the consumption of any substance can yield unpredictable results, especially if motor vehicles, heavy equipment, or any of a host of other objects which can cause significant damage, serious injury, or death.
Similarly, there remains to be a quick field sobriety test for the excessive consumption of marijuana while operating a motor vehicle. Other tests for impairment remain objective (at the discretion of the officer), except for a present/not present result.
 
There is along list of professions I want to show up for work unimpaired by any drug, except maybe a tad more alert from their morning coffee.

And it isn't just the marijuana but marijuana products.  like the oils they smoke.  Very potent products and as you said you cannot predict what is too stoned.  One toke, two....etc.  There definitely are and will continue to be traffic deaths due to the legalization of marijuana.  Before it was legal people weren't out in the open doing it.  They were at home.  I never saw and smelled so many baked people until we legalized.
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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2018, 06:26:19 am »
And it isn't just the marijuana but marijuana products.  like the oils they smoke.  Very potent products and as you said you cannot predict what is too stoned.  One toke, two....etc.  There definitely are and will continue to be traffic deaths due to the legalization of marijuana.  Before it was legal people weren't out in the open doing it.  They were at home.  I never saw and smelled so many baked people until we legalized.
The problem is that there are loads of people here from elsewhere who see 'nothing wrong' with getting baked, who think (yes, I said, "think) they do just as well baked as sober. Uhhhhh.....No.

People from areas which have not had the same performance standards inherent in a region where the weather can kill you six months out of the year over a stupid oversight may not do well here. What's worse, that attitude gets little to no pushback from the media, and by that absence of objection is deemed by young impressionable folks to be correct.

Some day a lot of people are going to die because someone didn't do their job right while they were high on weed or 'products', and often it is some simple oversight that snowballs into a major problem.

I grew up on a farm where the current "evil weed" was grown. No, not pot, Tobacco. I'd rather smell tobacco smoke than pot, especially the skunky stuff nowadays, but I may be biased by the labors of my formative years.

What I think is funny is that those who smoke can't smell the residual odors on their clothing, in their cars, etc. I won't ride in a car that reeks of weed, and I recall telling one person (who was shocked by my comment) that if he ever gets pulled over, they'll search the vehicle. He asked, "Why?". I laughed and said "It reeks of pot." He couldn't smell it. About two weeks later he got stopped over a turn signal or something, they towed the vehicle after searching and finding paraphernalia, and then thoroughly searched (like the customs folks do), and when he got it back the interior required a lot of work to be reassembled.  :shrug:

It is illegal here although there are guidelines for medical usage being drawn up.

Which brings up another aspect. When you fill out the form 4473 to purchase a firearm, one of the disqualification question specifically mentions the use of marijuana. A quick cross reference between CCW, Form 4473 info, and medical permits will have some folks losing their guns under current Federal law. 
Buy a gun and answer that question "no" after getting a 'medical permit', and you've perjured yourself, which is a Felony and a long term disqualifier.
Now, who is pushing this and why? And why would people be so stupid as to fall into this trap?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 06:28:04 am by Smokin Joe »
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Sighlass

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #57 on: June 10, 2018, 05:37:40 pm »
No. It's a pretty damn predictable drug.

Yes, it is in some ways predictable.

One in six teenagers who regularly smoke the drug become dependent
It doubles risk of developing psychotic disorders, including schizophrenia
Heavy use in adolescence appears to impair intellectual development
Driving after smoking cannabis doubles risk of having a car crash.

And in my case, it was not some sweet trip that floated me away to sugarland. I became a 6'4" big young person that was far from calm. A feeling I had rather forget, yet dare not. I thank the Lord quite often that my bad experience lead me to never try another drug.

The only thing fully predictable about the drug is it's unpredictability.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2782906/The-terrible-truth-cannabis-British-expert-s-devastating-20-year-study-finally-demolishes-claims-smoking-pot-harmless.html
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 05:42:12 pm by Sighlass »
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Offline Sighlass

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #58 on: June 10, 2018, 06:01:15 pm »
And it isn't just the marijuana but marijuana products.  like the oils they smoke.  Very potent products and as you said you cannot predict what is too stoned.  One toke, two....etc.  There definitely are and will continue to be traffic deaths due to the legalization of marijuana.  Before it was legal people weren't out in the open doing it.  They were at home.  I never saw and smelled so many baked people until we legalized.

Yep, the old adage that it is just a plant the Lord created is long gone. Crossbreeding and Hybrid experimentation has taken that plant that was subject of the old movie Reefer Madness (often mocked by those in favor of legalization) and made it 10x (100x in some cases) more potent. I just know if close to 40 years ago the drug had a bad effect on me, no telling what the more potent stuff would do.

------------- On a side note, I had never watched the film (R.Madness) so took it upon myself to watch it today. I was expecting a film that was so zany as to actually warrant the scoff from those that hold it up as propaganda. It had a few pieces of cheese in it (ie. how they smoked pot and blew it around the room), but for the most part it was a serious film with serious concerns. It has a plot that was believable and the acting wasn't that bad. It was about the evils of the drug of course, but also how they work to get the young started on the drug. It wasn't unbelievable whatsoever.




« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 06:38:30 pm by Sighlass »
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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #59 on: June 10, 2018, 06:04:42 pm »
Yes, it is in some ways predictable.

One in six teenagers who regularly smoke the drug become dependent
It doubles risk of developing psychotic disorders, including schizophrenia
Heavy use in adolescence appears to impair intellectual development
Driving after smoking cannabis doubles risk of having a car crash.

And in my case, it was not some sweet trip that floated me away to sugarland. I became a 6'4" big young person that was far from calm. A feeling I had rather forget, yet dare not. I thank the Lord quite often that my bad experience lead me to never try another drug.

The only thing fully predictable about the drug is it's unpredictability.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2782906/The-terrible-truth-cannabis-British-expert-s-devastating-20-year-study-finally-demolishes-claims-smoking-pot-harmless.html

So do alcohol and tobacco.  Shall we make those illegal, too?  In fact, texting while driving is worse than driving drunk; perhaps we should make cellphones illegal too. 

Offline Emjay

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #60 on: June 10, 2018, 06:08:15 pm »
This is such an emotional issue for some people that there cannot be any rational discussion about it, at least with those people.

I'm glad to say, it will be a done deal in two years or less and the world will not end.
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Offline jpsb

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #61 on: June 10, 2018, 06:16:50 pm »
I think Trump is just trying to piss off Jeff Sessions.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #62 on: June 10, 2018, 06:17:29 pm »
This is such an emotional issue for some people that there cannot be any rational discussion about it, at least with those people.

I'm glad to say, it will be a done deal in two years or less and the world will not end.

That's true:  It's likely because the Media Oligarchs have thrown in with the pro legalization side.  Gun laws were well on their way to being relaxed all over the country but those oligarchs have decided to oppose that, and now the liberalization of gun laws has been stopped in its tracks.

I'm glad too, but this is a double edged sword.
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #63 on: June 10, 2018, 06:25:47 pm »
I’m not for legalizating it at federal or state level, just decriminalization. I don’t want a nanny state with its hands in every potential revenue source under the sun.


Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #64 on: June 10, 2018, 06:33:30 pm »
I’m not for legalizating it at federal or state level, just decriminalization. I don’t want a nanny state with its hands in every potential revenue source under the sun.

@aligncare
But it is the right of the various states to criminalize it (or not) as they see fit.

Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #65 on: June 10, 2018, 06:34:45 pm »
I’m not for legalizating it at federal or state level, just decriminalization. I don’t want a nanny state with its hands in every potential revenue source under the sun.

Given the overwhelming evidence of the medicinal qualities of marijuana it is absolutely absurd not to decriminalize it. I am for legalization period. Big pharma and the gov't need to keep their hands out of the cookie jar.  Big pharma has spent a ton of money to ensure that medical marijuana is never permitted in every state; too many people will begin to find just how much more effective pot is over their prescription meds that can have life threatening ingredients and side affects.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #66 on: June 10, 2018, 06:37:04 pm »
I can get totally behind this even though I would never touch the stuff. The size of the police state and government interventionism revolving around the war on drugs is out of hand.  Like prohibitions before it, it has created a massive criminal enterprise simply because it is banned. We've already seen in places like Colorado that lifting prohibitions do not create the nightmare scenarios that many warned about. Liberty always wins in the end.

That's pretty much where I am too.  I don't want to use it, and just like no one smokes ciggies in my house, I wouldn't want anyone smoking it around me, but mostly I don't care.

I also understand that there are a large number of mostly-young people who can't get a job because they can't pass a drug test.  This might eliminate some of those barriers. 

Yes, pot is stupid, and it dulls the smoker's intellect and ambition....some.  But, as with alcohol, it's not a problem for the occasional, recreational smoker.  It becomes a problem when it is done to the point that it interferes with performance and relationships. Like alcohol.

Offline Sighlass

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #67 on: June 10, 2018, 06:44:10 pm »
I also understand that there are a large number of mostly-young people who can't get a job because they can't pass a drug test.  This might eliminate some of those barriers. 

Why do companies drug test? Is it because they just can't stand the thought of pot and other drugs? Or because they (chiefly their insurance carriers) know the correlation between the drugs and accidents on the job? Accidents that not only involve those that do the drugs, but other innocent members of the job crew. Like I previously stated, when you work with people driving 5 ton Hysters feet from you, you kinda want to know they aren't under the influence of something that affects their judgement. One night one of the fellows (that failed his drug test) was on a Hyster and hit one of the center supports in the building, it knocked it about 4-5 inches off center. The though of a few more inches off may of been also taking into consideration several lives lost.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 06:50:04 pm by Sighlass »
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #68 on: June 10, 2018, 06:47:36 pm »
Why do companies drug test? Is it because they just can't stand the thought of pot and other drugs? Or because they (chiefly their insurance carriers) know the correlation between the drugs and accidents on the job? Accidents that not only involve those that do the drugs, but other innocent members of the job crew.

Yes, that's why I generalized in my comment.  However, for MJ, I understand that you can test positive for it quite some time after smoking it, and I'm assuming the effects wear off before the positive test does.

Also, there have been a couple of studies that show that chronic smokers do as well after smoking as they do without, and tend to line up with non-smokers in performance levels. 

As for MJ, we don't know what we don't know.

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #69 on: June 10, 2018, 06:53:13 pm »
Why do companies drug test? Is it because they just can't stand the thought of pot and other drugs? Or because they (chiefly their insurance carriers) know the correlation between the drugs and accidents on the job?

I work for a large corporation, and from the late 80's to the late 90's they did random drug screens.  This is not a transportation company, nor any other kind that had a liability issue, they did it for your reason #1.  "Feels good!"  They also wanted the PR feather in their cap because it was all the rage.  They discontinued because nobody was ever caught, and it was a complete waste of money just for the sake of "feeling good."
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Offline edpc

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #70 on: June 10, 2018, 06:55:50 pm »
Why do companies drug test?



In my case, because they issued the service techs company vehicles and hired a team to maintain medical devices.  I’m assuming they don’t want us driving and/or repairing diagnostic equipment while baked.
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Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #71 on: June 10, 2018, 06:56:41 pm »
That's pretty much where I am too.  I don't want to use it, and just like no one smokes ciggies in my house, I wouldn't want anyone smoking it around me, but mostly I don't care.

I also understand that there are a large number of mostly-young people who can't get a job because they can't pass a drug test.  This might eliminate some of those barriers. 

Yes, pot is stupid, and it dulls the smoker's intellect and ambition....some.  But, as with alcohol, it's not a problem for the occasional, recreational smoker.  It becomes a problem when it is done to the point that it interferes with performance and relationships. Like alcohol.

I believe there's a time and place for recreational use.  Certainly, I don't think it belongs in the workplace UNLESS it is a medical necessity.

I don't think we as a society should ignore the benefits of medicinal marijuana.  I have personally seen a person with MS who could barely function, become significantly functioning after smoking pot. No, it was not medicinal, but nonetheless the benefits witnessed were significant.

I have read several medical publications of vast improvements of quality of life and reduction in pain in those patients who have used either recreational pot or medical pot for various different ailments.

To criminalize a substance that helps a person's quality of life and reduces or eliminates their pain I see as the true crime and I blame a lot of that on our greedy gov't and Big Pharm.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Sighlass

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #72 on: June 10, 2018, 07:05:42 pm »
I work for a large corporation, and from the late 80's to the late 90's they did random drug screens.  This is not a transportation company, nor any other kind that had a liability issue, they did it for your reason #1.  "Feels good!"  They also wanted the PR feather in their cap because it was all the rage.  They discontinued because nobody was ever caught, and it was a complete waste of money just for the sake of "feeling good."

Funny, the very first time I was selected (with one other fellow) for a drug test. He got fired for testing positive. It was sorta funny, he was not allowed to drive (previous court conviction I guess), so he had to call his wife to take him for the drug test. He was late arriving, I had been there 20 minutes and was drinking liquids to try to muster up enough to pee, and he arrived and went straight in and took his test and immediately left. Later I found out that his wife got their 5y/o kid to pee in a cup and he smuggled it into the test facility under his pants (flask). Seems they were able to detect a temperature difference and he had to come back and take another test while they watched (which he failed).
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 07:06:43 pm by Sighlass »
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #73 on: June 10, 2018, 07:06:35 pm »
I believe there's a time and place for recreational use.  Certainly, I don't think it belongs in the workplace UNLESS it is a medical necessity.

I don't think we as a society should ignore the benefits of medicinal marijuana.  I have personally seen a person with MS who could barely function, become significantly functioning after smoking pot. No, it was not medicinal, but nonetheless the benefits witnessed were significant.

I have read several medical publications of vast improvements of quality of life and reduction in pain in those patients who have used either recreational pot or medical pot for various different ailments.

To criminalize a substance that helps a person's quality of life and reduces or eliminates their pain I see as the true crime and I blame a lot of that on our greedy gov't and Big Pharm.

I could be wrong on this, but I understand that the medicinal chemicals in pot can be isolated from the psychoactive chemicals, and therefore strict medicinal use does not produce a high.

I would be concerned about someone at work using hydrocodone or morphine or whatever.  Sure, they may be using it medicinally and really need it, but that stuff makes them unable to perform.  If the medicinal pot makes you high, you may not be able to work during the time you are using it.

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #74 on: June 10, 2018, 07:10:57 pm »
I could be wrong on this, but I understand that the medicinal chemicals in pot can be isolated from the psychoactive chemicals, and therefore strict medicinal use does not produce a high.

I would be concerned about someone at work using hydrocodone or morphine or whatever.  Sure, they may be using it medicinally and really need it, but that stuff makes them unable to perform.  If the medicinal pot makes you high, you may not be able to work during the time you are using it.

We don't know nearly as much as we could know because the FDA refuses to run any of their standard testing on Cannabis.  This is why MJ is not eligible for the new "Right to Try" law.  To be eligible, a drug has to pass the initial FDA trials.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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