Jeff Sessions: Chronic pain sufferers should ‘take an aspirin and tough it out’

[driftdiver]

You make some good points. 

I know I'm not perfect so I don't claim to be the perfect conservative.  And, there are some areas where I disagree with social conservatives, so I'm not one of those either.  I do try to be consistent and argue within the bounds of the Constitution by which this nation is formed and united, and within the bounds of my relationship with God.

I'm not sure what you mean by: "However if you've checked out of the political process because it isn't 'perfect', then you are idolized."

And, yes, leftists crave power and will do and say anything and everything they feel they need to in order to get that power.

@Sanguine
There is a reason conservative ideals have been losing ground for decades.  Its not because our ideas don't work.  Its because 'conservatives' prefer to fight with each other over fighting with those who want to destroy this country.

The time for fighting over a candidate is during the primaries.   Fighting about them after the election is kinda pointless.

[Jazzhead]

Guess not

Yeah, I guess not.  But I've spoken my last on the subject on this thread.  Get in your last dig, INVAR, and I'm done. 

[truth_seeker]

The USA uses far, far greater opioids per capita, than other countries.

https://qz.com/1198965/the-surprising-geography-of-opioid-use-around-the-world/

Most of us come from families in America, which recently survived without narcotic pain meds.

One definition of an addict/alcoholic is: They "think" they can't get along without the substance. (ie. for "chronic pain")

The narcotic substances are called "mind altering." They work. They alter the mind. The "thinker" of an addict/alcoholic is broken, at the time.

Many picture the "addict" as a tattooed loser. But today it is just as likely a middle class law abiding person, that without intending, got "hooked" on the feeling provided from narcotics.

To deal with "chronic pain" that our grandparents dealt with by other means.

https://qz.com/1112727/the-magnitude-of-americas-opioid-epidemic-in-six-charts/

[Oceander]

Yeah, I guess not.  But I've spoken my last on the subject on this thread.  Get in your last dig, INVAR, and I'm done. 

Thanks for not helping here. 

[Sanguine]

@Sanguine
There is a reason conservative ideals have been losing ground for decades.  Its not because our ideas don't work.  Its because 'conservatives' prefer to fight with each other over fighting with those who want to destroy this country.

The time for fighting over a candidate is during the primaries.   Fighting about them after the election is kinda pointless.

DD, I agree that one characteristic of conservatives is that we have lousy aim, aiming at each other to the point that we don't go after the real enemy with nearly as much energy.

And, that is good and bad.  Bad for the reasons above, good because we have to depend on an external set of beliefs rather than like the leftists do: if it feels good (to leftists) it must be OK, and if it gives leftists power over others, it's good.

We have a set of core beliefs that we use to decide whether something is or is not a good course of action, and don't depend on our own feelings.  That's also why some of us tend to get so worked up when others try to change the rules on the fly.  That's what leftists do. 

I think we all know and agree who the president is.  That's not the issue.  The issue is when he expresses or proposes something that is antithetical to our core beliefs. 

[Emjay]

Sessions never said "chronic pain suffers" and he wasn't referring to them.  He was talking about people who have transient pain and the doctors who prescribe opioids as the first pain reliever. 

Sessions's only point was these drugs are too addictive to be a first choice pain reliever.  He used Gen. Kelly as an example--he had minor hand surgery and his doctor wanted to prescribe an opioid for the pain.  Kelly refused.




! No longer available


@libertybele

People have different pain levels.  Some people here have described ordeals I don't even want to think about.

Within the last year, I fell and broke my arm.  It was a pretty bad break and required a pin to be inserted.  They kept asking me about my pain level on a scale of one to ten.  I always said zero because I never felt any pain at all.

[INVAR]

There is a reason conservative ideals have been losing ground for decades.  Its not because our ideas don't work.  Its because 'conservatives' prefer to fight with each other over fighting with those who want to destroy this country.

Wrong. The ideas are never implemented and excuses are made for why it is not politically feasible or wise to fight for them.

The reason Conservative ideals lost ground is because the political party entrusted to champion those principles and ideals holds them in contempt and has rejected and eschewed them in favor of 'more compassionate Conservatism' which is simply Leftist-Lite.  The people whom placed their trust in that corruption continue to allow themselves to be enslaved to it - and are now openly witnessing those ideals and principles to which they once identified - being redefined right before their eyes.  They bought into the apostasy being sold to them because they decided 'winning office' is all that matters.  Principles are a dead weight and anchor that must be cut loose in order to sail forward we have been told myriad ways and fashions.

So the intra-'party' fights (if you can even call them that anymore) are over the abandonment and redefinition of what Principled Constitutional Conservatism was supposed to be - in favor of another acceleration to the hard-left in the name of pragmatism and populism in order to 'win'.

The fruits of which ultimately, will be little to no different than if Hildabeast won office or Obama remained in office.

The principles and ideals have been discarded by your party, who now holds them and the people that demand them, in contempt.  See Mitch McConnell's vow to crush and destroy the Tea Party back in 2014 if you have doubts.

The time for fighting over a candidate is during the primaries.   Fighting about them after the election is kinda pointless.

That is the insipid reasoning of Plantation Slaves and Party Hacks.  It is the excuse Apologists use for refusing to hold their vaunted political champion's feet to the fire when they renege on the very issues the Apologists promised were going to be fulfilled in total - likely on the first day in office no less.

From my perspective, BOTH parties are working to destroy the country and the Constitution - they just have different means of achieving that same goal, because both parties are engaged in establishing Statism and big government permanence.

[GrouchoTex]

I was on the NRO website a few months back, and I read that they had a few copies of William F. Buckley's book, "Keeping the Tablets" for sale.
It is a collection of essays on Conservatism. I owned the books several years ago, so I thought I'd buy one and read it again.
Lucky me, it was an autographed copy.
In the preface, Buckley stated that conservatism is sometimes difficult to describe. He noted that even at NR, many of the conservative writers there would take opposite sides of a position, and lay out cogent arguments on how their individual opinions were considered conservative.
This book also had some examples of that very thing. The NR crowd running off the John Birchers is another prime example.

As far as Buckley goes, I am sure he felt his brand of conservatism was the right way. No one can deny that he espoused his believes eloquently, and always well thought out.

Now, having said all that, I'd say the first tenet of what we now call conservatism, at least, American conservatism, is private property rights, which was a huge deal for our founding fathers.
Also, add in the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights.

Finally, the things conservatives are trying to "conserve" are time-tested traditions and institutions that work, and have a history of proven results.
As we all here at TBR know to be true (in this order):
Finish School.
Start a career and work hard.
Get Married and stay married and faithful.
Have Children.
Do these things in correct order and the odds of being poverty-stricken are greatly reduced.
The Bible teaches us to do the exact same things, and a lot more.

Just my 2 cents (plus inflation) worth....

[driftdiver]

Wrong. The ideas are never implemented and excuses are made for why it is not politically feasible or wise to fight for them.

The reason Conservative ideals lost ground is because the political party entrusted to champion those principles and ideals holds them in contempt and has rejected and eschewed them in favor of 'more compassionate Conservatism' which is simply Leftist-Lite.  The people whom placed their trust in that corruption continue to allow themselves to be enslaved to it - and are now openly witnessing those ideals and principles to which they once identified - being redefined right before their eyes.  They bought into the apostasy being sold to them because they decided 'winning office' is all that matters.  Principles are a dead weight and anchor that must be cut loose in order to sail forward we have been told myriad ways and fashions.

So the intra-'party' fights (if you can even call them that anymore) are over the abandonment and redefinition of what Principled Constitutional Conservatism was supposed to be - in favor of another acceleration to the hard-left in the name of pragmatism and populism in order to 'win'.

The fruits of which ultimately, will be little to no different than if Hildabeast won office or Obama remained in office.

The principles and ideals have been discarded by your party, who now holds them and the people that demand them, in contempt.  See Mitch McConnell's vow to crush and destroy the Tea Party back in 2014 if you have doubts.

That is the insipid reasoning of Plantation Slaves and Party Hacks.  It is the excuse Apologists use for refusing to hold their vaunted political champion's feet to the fire when they renege on the very issues the Apologists promised were going to be fulfilled in total - likely on the first day in office no less.

From my perspective, BOTH parties are working to destroy the country and the Constitution - they just have different means of achieving that same goal, because both parties are engaged in establishing Statism and big government permanence.

@INVAR
You are the case that proves the point.  You'll attack anyone who isn't perfect in your eyes, denounce and insult them.    Meanwhile the left moves on its merry way.

[mountaineer]

Any chance of this thread getting back on track?

Interesting concept - and much ignored in these parts.

[aligncare]

I was on the NRO website a few months back, and I read that they had a few copies of William F. Buckley's book, "Keeping the Tablets" for sale.
It is a collection of essays on Conservatism. I owned the books several years ago, so I thought I'd buy one and read it again.
Lucky me, it was an autographed copy.
In the preface, Buckley stated that conservatism is sometimes difficult to describe. He noted that even at NR, many of the conservative writers there would take opposite sides of a position, and lay out cogent arguments on how their individual opinions were considered conservative.
This book also had some examples of that very thing. The NR crowd running off the John Birchers is another prime example.

As far as Buckley goes, I am sure he felt his brand of conservatism was the right way. No one can deny that he espoused his believes eloquently, and always well thought out.

Now, having said all that, I'd say the first tenet of what we now call conservatism, at least, American conservatism, is private property rights, which was a huge deal for our founding fathers.
Also, add in the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights.

Finally, the things conservatives are trying to "conserve" are time-tested traditions and institutions that work, and have a history of proven results.
As we all here at TBR know to be true (in this order):
Finish School.
Start a career and work hard.
Get Married and stay married and faithful.
Have Children.
Do these things in correct order and the odds of being poverty-stricken are greatly reduced.
The Bible teaches us to do the exact same things, and a lot more.

Just my 2 cents (plus inflation) worth....

The most notable part of what you wrote is that conservatism is best realized in how one lives their life, not how they bloviate on fora.

Bringing it back around, having the federal government involved in pain management, an issue that is about as local as it gets – something between doctor and patient – is not something that conservatives should be supporting.

[Emjay]

I was on the NRO website a few months back, and I read that they had a few copies of William F. Buckley's book, "Keeping the Tablets" for sale.
It is a collection of essays on Conservatism. I owned the books several years ago, so I thought I'd buy one and read it again.
Lucky me, it was an autographed copy.
In the preface, Buckley stated that conservatism is sometimes difficult to describe. He noted that even at NR, many of the conservative writers there would take opposite sides of a position, and lay out cogent arguments on how their individual opinions were considered conservative.
This book also had some examples of that very thing. The NR crowd running off the John Birchers is another prime example.

As far as Buckley goes, I am sure he felt his brand of conservatism was the right way. No one can deny that he espoused his believes eloquently, and always well thought out.

Now, having said all that, I'd say the first tenet of what we now call conservatism, at least, American conservatism, is private property rights, which was a huge deal for our founding fathers.
Also, add in the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights.

Finally, the things conservatives are trying to "conserve" are time-tested traditions and institutions that work, and have a history of proven results.
As we all here at TBR know to be true (in this order):
Finish School.
Start a career and work hard.
Get Married and stay married and faithful.
Have Children.
Do these things in correct order and the odds of being poverty-stricken are greatly reduced.
The Bible teaches us to do the exact same things, and a lot more.

Just my 2 cents (plus inflation) worth....

That is such a great list of rules ... worth much more than two cents.

[driftdiver]

Interesting concept - and much ignored in these parts.

What that Sessions is an ignorant hack?

[Jazzhead]

The most notable part of what you wrote is that conservatism is best realized in how one lives their life, not how they bloviate on fora.

Yes!  This!

[Emjay]

One thing I miss so much about Wm. Buckley was his slow, measured way of speaking.

So many talking heads on TV now sound absolutely desperate to screech out every word they know and do it fast as though they were being timed.  This is especially true on those panel shows which I won't watch.

[Restored]

Any chance of this thread getting back on track?

What are you trying to say? 

[mountaineer]

What that Sessions is an ignorant hack?

No, the personal attacks on one another within this forum were out of bounds. I have no problem with comments on the article and Mr. Sessions' comments on people with minor aches and pains not needing opioids.

[Emjay]

Three brilliantly stated points - and this is a bellwether  moment for me wrt Sessions. My ambivolence has departed if this quote is contextually true.

Sessions made a huge mistake with this press conference.  I believe he is actually ignorant about the real world in which people suffer.

He is right about attempting to combat the opiod addiction, but saying just take an aspirin is an insult and makes him sound really stupid.

He is not open to new ideas.  He is violently against medical Marijuana which I am in favor of because he doesn't know that much about it.

[Emjay]

    "Just Say NO!, version 2, look on the bright side, if this works any better than the last time when Nancy Reagan tried it, it could save us $7B in taxpayer funded opioid addiction therapy.


Disclaimer:  I have been addicted to opioids, in the past, after numerous back surgeries.

@corbe.  I wish you would tell us more about that.  Why did you have to have back surgery and did it help at all?  I've heard that back surgery seldom helps the original problem.

What opioids did you take and how dependent were you?  Could you get through a day without them.

And most of all, how did you break the habit?

[GrouchoTex]

The most notable part of what you wrote is that conservatism is best realized in how one lives their life, not how they bloviate on fora.

Bringing it back around, having the federal government involved in pain management, an issue that is about as local as it gets – something between doctor and patient – is not something that conservatives should be supporting.

Well, Libertarian anyway.
You could argue the regulation could have been either liberal or conservative, depending on what side of the bed the person came out of, the days those regulations were made.
Which was my point, that nailing down criteria of what is and is not conservative is tricky business, a point you have now made for me.

I'll close in saying that Jeff Sessions does not have a medical background, so I find his comments useless.

[Emjay]

From NY Daily News:

I'm no fan of Sessions, but this is different context.

In the context you quoted it does not sound so bad at all.  BUT Sessions is not up to speed on the pain thing and opioid  problem, so maybe he should defer to an expert on this.  He sounds like a senile old family doctor.

[driftdiver]

I'll close in saying that Jeff Sessions does not have a medical background, so I find his comments useless.

@GrouchoTex
Except that as AG he does have the power to impact millions of people.  Hospitals, doctors, nurses and of course the patient.  The vast majority of people who just want the pain to go away.  Most don't want to take the pills and would stop in a second if they could.

[driftdiver]

In the context you quoted it does not sound so bad at all.  BUT Sessions is not up to speed on the pain thing and opioid  problem, so maybe he should defer to an expert on this.  He sounds like a senile old family doctor.

@Emjay
Not bad?   The guy making that statement just told us he thinks people should just tough it out.  He'd probably be happy with outright banning of all pain meds.  Except aspirin of course.

[Emjay]

I am experiencing something that I cannot quite describe after reading the above.  I think it is embarrassment.  Huh, that's interesting.

Hey, me, too.  What a Bizarre post.  I have the dude on ignore so I wouldn't have seen it except that you quoted it.

[Restored]

He'd probably be happy with outright banning of all pain meds.

Nice strawman. Where'd you get it?