Author Topic: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election  (Read 106863 times)

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Offline TomSea

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1025 on: December 14, 2017, 12:51:18 pm »
"When was America last great?"

How would each of us answer this?

At first, I thought of during World War II and presenting that united America but... I think one could say when the US landed on the moon. There are problems with both of these eras. If someone pointed out there was racial oppression during the era of World War II, I guess that would be correct in a sense.

And obviously, one could mention the Reagan era as well. It's a bit of a loaded question to really get correct and any answer is subjective in the end, there is no real correct answer. For some people, it would be when Obama was elected, not me, just saying.

I think Moore did get some "trap" questions, what he said about Putin struck me as just being a bit off the cuff, "well, maybe we have something in common" or however his exact words were.

Also, it was not surprising to me that Moore did skulk a bit into the background when the allegations came up; I don't know if he was campaigning a lot prior.

Riding the horse and all of that, that is fine but maybe he just needed to rub elbows with the common people.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 12:52:47 pm by TomSea »

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1026 on: December 14, 2017, 12:52:42 pm »
Flawed?  No.  Incompetent?  Yes.

Good grief, the Saturday before election day, he sat at home watching a football game while Doug Jones spent the day shaking every hand he could find.

Moore thought the seat was going to be given to him without any effort on his part.  Just like Hillary.
Gee whiz! Does your mind reader work for just candidates or can you do that with everyone?

Jones had 14 times the war chest Moore had. McConnell and the National GOP had pulled his funding before the ink was dry in the yearbook. It just might be that the well had run dry.
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1027 on: December 14, 2017, 12:53:18 pm »
It's water under the bridge.  He didn't win (and probably isn't going to get another chance).

Thank God, on both accounts. 

Offline TomSea

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1028 on: December 14, 2017, 01:01:56 pm »
Thank God, on both accounts.

Moore Jones the rematch @Oceander, you'd love it!   2020 :thud:
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 01:02:12 pm by TomSea »

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1029 on: December 14, 2017, 01:03:53 pm »
Moore Jones the rematch @Oceander, you'd love it!   2020 :thud:

Can we throw tomatoes?

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1030 on: December 14, 2017, 01:19:55 pm »
Like it or not, friend, it is overtly racist to look a black man in the eye and say that the days of slavery, when black families were torn to pieces by being sold and separated, were when America was "great" because families were stronger.

If one cares one whit about black families, then one doesn't make comments like this.

Either that, or he is dumber than a box of rocks, and twice as ignorant.

You don't have to be a bleeding heart liberal to know the ravages that slavery inflicted on black families.

You just have to be a decent, caring, educated person.

The fact that the accusation of racism has been abused doesn't mean the reality of it doesn't exist.

(It was stated earlier, that if Moore were a true conservative, he would have taken the opportunity to rant against LBJ's "Great Society," and how it destroyed black families.  But no.  Moore made a fool of himself with his ignorance).
I must note that those days preceded LBJ's "Great Society".
Consider:
First off, not all black (slave) families were torn apart in the days of slavery. (Not the Free blacks at all.) Often the families remained intact or the children as they grew with the children of the owners went with those children of the owners or stayed with the farm.
The families were tied together more than history will ever write, especially the revisionist stuff of today which is sixth generation abolitionist agitprop perpetrated to justify waging total warfare on the South, looting, burning farms and crops that were not 'conscripted', and hanging any male who had stayed behind to work the farm as a spy. That's how Custer made his name in the Carolinas.

But imagine full employment, housing, food, clothing, medical care, all taken care of (and they even ate organic food--no GMO!).

Oh sh*t! Wait! That isn't welfare, it's slavery! They worked!
They weren't cruising the 'hood and dealing/taking drugs, hooking, and getting their asses dead by 30 from a drive by shooting or in a robbery or a gang fight. There were no crack whores, no crack babies, nobody's kid waking up dead in the morning with a spike in their arm because the dealer burned them. Instead, their children went on to do things like found Tuskegee Institute and other universities. They didn't have the social services coming in and taking the kids and sending them off to some foster care.

Open your mind just that much to see the difference and maybe someone had a point. They just weren't free, but then neither are many of the welfare blacks today--they just don't recognize their chains.

There may have been cases where there was abuse, after the 3% of those captured and sold to slave traders in Africa came to America, where those families captured intact were sold in different directions. There may have been cases where the level of abuse found in abolitionist Harriet Beecher Stowe's NOVEL actually happened.

But the degradation of the Black family in times of supposed freedom at the hands of the Liberals in this country in the last 50 years eclipses that in scope and intensity, despite the illusion of freedom the welfare and social services and the housing people give.

As for the rest of us, this didn't exist, either. It is the other set of chains, imposed on us by those who are 'free', or at least living that way.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 01:27:09 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1031 on: December 14, 2017, 01:24:27 pm »
The Alabama electorate knew damn well that Moore was a terrible candidate. 


This *ASSERTION* is contradicted by the *EVIDENCE*  that he was elected by these people in 2013. 


Once again,  you are the one that needs to be reminded about reality. 


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Offline dfwgator

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1032 on: December 14, 2017, 01:26:55 pm »

This is like saying a car that was smashed by a Semi-Truck had a dent in it before the collision. 


It is a conflation of the Major and the Minor as having equal influence.

No, he was flawed to the point that in a solid red State the election was going to be close,  but probably still would have won had he not been knifed in the back.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1033 on: December 14, 2017, 01:27:41 pm »
I was asked to explain my comment, and did.

It may be "water under the bridge" for you, but it clearly isn't for others.

True.  That would explain why the Mods have left the thread open.
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1034 on: December 14, 2017, 01:30:30 pm »
Flawed?  No.  Incompetent?  Yes.

Good grief, the Saturday before election day, he sat at home watching a football game while Doug Jones spent the day shaking every hand he could find.

Moore thought the seat was going to be given to him without any effort on his part.  Just like Hillary.


I feel like Mr. Douglas in "Green Acres." 


Quick question.   Laziness or accusations of being a child molesting rapist?   


Which had the bigger influence on the election?
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1035 on: December 14, 2017, 01:30:55 pm »
No, he was flawed to the point that in a solid red State the election was going to be close,  but probably still would have won had he not been knifed in the back.
Am I the only one who sees that despite huge Democrat turnout in a special election the vote WAS close, in spite of the MSM playing the allegations like endless disco?
22K votes?

In spite of being outspent 14 to 1, and six weeks of intense smear campaign, the National GOP rushing to pull support, and all the rest?

A deeply flawed candidate would have lost in a landslide.

Enough of the 'sour grapes", already.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline musiclady

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1036 on: December 14, 2017, 01:33:09 pm »
True.  That would explain why the Mods have left the thread open.

Why wouldn't they?  :shrug:
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1037 on: December 14, 2017, 01:33:36 pm »
"When was America last great?"

How would each of us answer this?



1950s,  right after world war II.   American power and influence was never so good. 



‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1038 on: December 14, 2017, 01:36:48 pm »
I must note that those days preceded LBJ's "Great Society".
Consider:
First off, not all black (slave) families were torn apart in the days of slavery. (Not the Free blacks at all.) Often the families remained intact or the children as they grew with the children of the owners went with those children of the owners or stayed with the farm.
The families were tied together more than history will ever write, especially the revisionist stuff of today which is sixth generation abolitionist agitprop perpetrated to justify waging total warfare on the South, looting, burning farms and crops that were not 'conscripted', and hanging any male who had stayed behind to work the farm as a spy. That's how Custer made his name in the Carolinas.

But imagine full employment, housing, food, clothing, medical care, all taken care of (and they even ate organic food--no GMO!).

Oh sh*t! Wait! That isn't welfare, it's slavery! They worked!
They weren't cruising the 'hood and dealing/taking drugs, hooking, and getting their asses dead by 30 from a drive by shooting or in a robbery or a gang fight. There were no crack whores, no crack babies, nobody's kid waking up dead in the morning with a spike in their arm because the dealer burned them. Instead, their children went on to do things like found Tuskegee Institute and other universities. They didn't have the social services coming in and taking the kids and sending them off to some foster care.

Open your mind just that much to see the difference and maybe someone had a point. They just weren't free, but then neither are many of the welfare blacks today--they just don't recognize their chains.

There may have been cases where there was abuse, after the 3% of those captured and sold to slave traders in Africa came to America, where those families captured intact were sold in different directions. There may have been cases where the level of abuse found in abolitionist Harriet Beecher Stowe's NOVEL actually happened.

But the degradation of the Black family in times of supposed freedom at the hands of the Liberals in this country in the last 50 years eclipses that in scope and intensity, despite the illusion of freedom the welfare and social services and the housing people give.

As for the rest of us, this didn't exist, either. It is the other set of chains, imposed on us by those who are 'free', or at least living that way.

I can't believe you just outlined the goodness of slavery and aren't ashamed of what you said. (Even though, you at least said what you did under the cover of anonymity).

I guess I understand your support of Moore in spite of his boneheaded defense of the days of slavery.  You actually agree with him.

Wow.  That's very disturbing.

VERY disturbing.

(btw, if Moore were a smart racist, he would have just mentioned the damage LBJ did and not made the idiotic public support he gave for the days of slavery.  I guess that just makes him a dumb racist).
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 01:53:27 pm by musiclady »
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

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Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1039 on: December 14, 2017, 01:37:15 pm »
No, he was flawed to the point that in a solid red State the election was going to be close,  but probably still would have won had he not been knifed in the back.


On what basis would you think it was going to be close?   Poll numbers I saw put him 15 points or more ahead of Jones.   Republican registration in Alabama is like 6-1 over Democrats.   An ordinary mediocre election like a  routine off year election would have had him stomping Jones flat.   


 
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1040 on: December 14, 2017, 01:41:00 pm »
Why wouldn't they?  :shrug:

They seem to be "fight averse," and this thread is still cooking hot two days after the election.  I always figured they just lock live threads after a while, regardless.
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1041 on: December 14, 2017, 01:41:08 pm »
Why wouldn't they?  :shrug:


Because a subjective explanation of "boring"  is sufficient to close a thread.   I have come to regard the term "boring"  as meaning anything I find interesting and in need of discussing,   at least that is what the word seems to mean on this website,  anyways.





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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1042 on: December 14, 2017, 01:45:59 pm »

Because a subjective explanation of "boring"  is sufficient to close a thread.   I have come to regard the term "boring"  as meaning anything I find interesting and in need of discussing,   at least that is what the word seems to mean on this website,  anyways.

I have a sneaking suspicion "boring" is actually a Mod code word meaning "I'm tired of constantly stopping fights on this thread."  That seems to be when it usually happens when I get into an interesting fight.  That you find fights inherently interesting is purely coincidental.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1043 on: December 14, 2017, 01:47:25 pm »
Gee whiz! Does your mind reader work for just candidates or can you do that with everyone?

Jones had 14 times the war chest Moore had. McConnell and the National GOP had pulled his funding before the ink was dry in the yearbook. It just might be that the well had run dry.

None of that impedes Moore's ability to get off his ass on a Saturday and greet voters.  None of that impedes Moore's ability to raise money on his own.  And none of that causes Moore to make idiotic comments about not usually dating minors.

Rick Santorum won the Iowa Caucus with $22,000 and two minivans.  He did it by campaigning tirelessly - not by sitting on his ass watching a football game.
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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1044 on: December 14, 2017, 01:49:32 pm »

Because a subjective explanation of "boring"  is sufficient to close a thread.   I have come to regard the term "boring"  as meaning anything I find interesting and in need of discussing,   at least that is what the word seems to mean on this website,  anyways.

The only reason a thread gets closed is when the insults are out of control and posters won't return to the subject.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1045 on: December 14, 2017, 02:03:43 pm »
None of that impedes Moore's ability to get off his ass on a Saturday and greet voters.  None of that impedes Moore's ability to raise money on his own.  And none of that causes Moore to make idiotic comments about not usually dating minors.

Rick Santorum won the Iowa Caucus with $22,000 and two minivans.  He did it by campaigning tirelessly - not by sitting on his ass watching a football game.

It was, however, a very good football game.   
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Offline edpc

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1046 on: December 14, 2017, 02:04:56 pm »


1950s,  right after world war II.   American power and influence was never so good.

Agreed - probably that decade between 1954-64.  Growth in infrastructure and economy, most of what was purchased was domestically produced.  Solid family units and values.  Yes, we still had issues to address like segregation, but it was as close to ideal as we’ve been since.
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1047 on: December 14, 2017, 02:12:19 pm »
The only reason a thread gets closed is when the insults are out of control and posters won't return to the subject.


Perhaps my memory is faulty,   but I recall that there was a thread in which I do not recall any large number of insults,  but which was closed,  and the reason cited was "boring."   

I think it was over a month ago,  perhaps even two months ago.   I'm trying to recall what the thread was about,  but i've slept since then.   


I almost messaged you about it at the time,   but then I thought better of it.   You had been so gracious in the past that I decided it wasn't fair to trouble you with it.   





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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1048 on: December 14, 2017, 02:19:44 pm »
Agreed - probably that decade between 1954-64.  Growth in infrastructure and economy, most of what was purchased was domestically produced.  Solid family units and values.  Yes, we still had issues to address like segregation, but it was as close to ideal as we’ve been since.


Sanitation,  health,  advancement of science,  peace,  hope for the future,  and on and on and on.   


Of course I'm not a person who tries to revolve his entire life around religion,   though I have known a lot of such people.   They have a world view not so different from the Amish,  and they long for a simpler time such as when everyone drove around in horses and buggies. 

I perceive Moore was one such as these,  and people who keep misconstruing his meaning,  do so because they themselves are likely unfamiliar with people who think like that.   

For someone who thinks of himself as a deeply religious "original intent"  constitutionalist,  the era of 1790 would be appealing.   

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #1049 on: December 14, 2017, 02:22:05 pm »

Perhaps my memory is faulty,   but I recall that there was a thread in which I do not recall any large number of insults,  but which was closed,  and the reason cited was "boring."   

I think it was over a month ago,  perhaps even two months ago.   I'm trying to recall what the thread was about,  but i've slept since then.   


I almost messaged you about it at the time,   but then I thought better of it.   You had been so gracious in the past that I decided it wasn't fair to trouble you with it.

If true it was done without my knowledge...why lock a thread if it is boring, it dies off on it's own.
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