Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election

[DiogenesLamp]

No, McConnel wasn't afraid of that in the least. If Moore was suspected to only be a plac3eholder and a secure vote, Mitch wouldn't have been so hasty to attack. I seriously believe that Mitch was afraid Moore would get an eyefull of 'bidness as usual' on the Hill and expose it. That's why Moore was so soundly attacked by both sides, and the allegations were just an excuse.

Exposing "business as usual"  was exactly what I posted on another thread.   Moore had demonstrated time and again that he couldn't be bought,  and he wouldn't go along with the "good ole boy"  system of Washington DC.   

[Smokin Joe]

Well..... I would never cast a vote for ANY damned Clinton bitch...

but other than that, I would support anyone running against the McConnell bitch...lol.

I think it is so important to put that ass out on his (ass) that I will donate to the Democrat if he isn't primaried.

[DiogenesLamp]

The Seven mistress allegations against Cruz were timed to hit the endcaps in the grocery stores about the same time as the Bible Belt primaries, and it was effective in costing Cruz, so it has worked before. This is just the first time I have seen both Parties use the same tactic to attack a candidate together.

I used to roll my eyes at "conspiracy theories",   but over the last two years I have noticed a pattern of behavior that leads me to believe the two parties are pretty much just sock puppets for the same influential people who more or less control American politics and policies. 


They are the "elite"  moneyed donors,  most of which live between Washington DC and Boston Mass.   They own the media,  and the media is a tool to influence the public to go along with whatever this "elite"  considers to be in it's best interests;   Usually to continue or accelerate spending from Washington DC. 


Yes,  I know it's a crazy theory that rich people who make money from government spending/policy might actually use their wealth and influence to keep that revenue stream coming at as high a level as possible. 


"Mercantilism"  sort of got out of hand. 

[Smokin Joe]

The problem is that they knocked him on his heels, and campaign was reactive from there. I'll grant he was financially hamstrung, but his counter-PR never got it's footing, and disappearing from the trail the last few weeks did him no favors. He ended up playing their game, instead of his.

Whether changing that would have made a difference in the election I don't know. The GOP turned out well, the Dems turnout was near unbelieveable.

It's hard to create a counter to something like that from scratch and get the word out without money. The GOP pulled theirs at the National Level. While he was sent donations from all over, a big chunk of war chest was snatched away when he needed it most.

As for the Dems, the media setup was make allegations, continue to make them and show the polls approaching, and finally with, the desired outcome. Any voter fraud will come out inside the point spread that way.

[DiogenesLamp]

I think it is so important to put that ass out on his (ass) that I will donate to the Democrat if he isn't primaried.

Last midterm I tried to talk anyone in Kentucky into voting for the Democrat.   My argument was that an enemy soldier was less of a threat than a traitor. 

[Smokin Joe]

No it's speculation on your part and nothing else. Strange was endorsed by a President who won the state easily a year ago. Trump was also accused of corruption and sexual impropriety, but they still voted for him overwhelmingly.  How would voters in this state be so easily swayed by the media in one instance but not the other?

Recall, if you will, that it was said that Trump could butcher babies in Times Square and not lose support.

[corbe]

With the GOP not only throwing Moore to the Wolves, but participating in that dog pack at the drop of a hat--lending credence to the attack on his Conservative credentials instead of fighting it, it is apparent they want nothing to do with Conservatives. I predict an exodus from the Party, one which has been a trickle but will grow until Conservatives are gone. It is up to Conservatives to create or build another Party and provide the people and alternatives to Liberal same ol' same ol' that we have seen since the TEA party movement rocked the elections.
Energizing that base and invigorating them with the right candidates is key, and must be done in spite of the MSM.

   Excellent analysis @Smokin Joe
   Thanks for sharing.

[Bigun]

With the GOP not only throwing Moore to the Wolves, but participating in that dog pack at the drop of a hat--lending credence to the attack on his Conservative credentials instead of fighting it, it is apparent they want nothing to do with Conservatives. I predict an exodus from the Party, one which has been a trickle but will grow until Conservatives are gone. It is up to Conservatives to create or build another Party and provide the people and alternatives to Liberal same ol' same ol' that we have seen since the TEA party movement rocked the elections.
Energizing that base and invigorating them with the right candidates is key, and must be done in spite of the MSM.

I may be the only one here who clearly recalls Mitch McConnell telling us plainly what he was going to do to candidates he didn't approve of but I most certainly recall him doing it.

[RetBobbyMI]

Conservatism has no future when those who claim to practice it rush to judgement to vilify their own.
It has become another meaningless term, stocked with the ranks of hypocrites and liars who push their personal issues at the expense of the Constitution and all it stands for..

Not a word more truly written! They aren't conservative if  they violate the constitutional rights of others by rushing their own personal judgment.

[Smokin Joe]

These acts reinforce the credibility of the accusations in the public's mind.    There is a certain amount of "herd mentality"  at work in any human population,    and many people simply said "well,  the accusations must be true,  or else the Republicans wouldn't have suspended their funding of this candidate.


The behavior of the National party sent the message to the public that the accusations had merit.

And McConnell led the way. Which is why I will do all I can to see him defeated.

[Bigun]

Not a word more truly written! They aren't conservative if  they violate the constitutional rights of others by rushing their own personal judgment.

@RetBobbyMI

Absolutely agree!  Unquestionably true!

[Smokin Joe]

It's all about style nowadays.  He probably could have pulled off a win if he had gotten out there and convinced voters that he was innocent and in charge. 

Most of the people on this site exempted, that's how voters pick candidates today.  By their style.  Remember all the "which candidate would you prefer to go have a beer with?" questions.

He had a tough row to hoe, no question, but he could have put up a better "style" fight.

It still takes money and the National GOP had cut him off at the knees, there. Not only did they give credence to the allegations by doing so, they rushed to cut off the financial support which would have ordinarily been available to the candidate

[kevindavis007]

"For those screaming 'WAPO hit job' you had a candidate:

Who when asked if he dated teenagers as a 30 yr old said 'not usually'

Warned of shariah courts being established in Michigan and Illinois

Had surrogates tell a pregnant host 'Doug Jones wants to abort your baby'

Said America was better during the era of slavery.... TO A BLACK MAN

Wanted to repeal the 13th and 14th amendments

Had his wife counter charges of insensitivity towards Jews with 'my lawyer is a Jew'

Spent the final day of the campaign arguing over whether people had to take the oath of office on a Christian bible, and if homosexuality should be criminalized.

But please, please tell me how he lost due to a media hit job."

[skeeter]

It still takes money and the National GOP had cut him off at the knees, there. Not only did they give credence to the allegations by doing so, they rushed to cut off the financial support which would have ordinarily been available to the candidate

@Sanguine
@Smokin Joe

In addition to the media smear campaign Moore was outspent by Jones 14 to 1. Members of his own party, including Alabama's other senator, campaigned against him.

It may be true that Moore could've ran a better campaign, but c'mon - no one overcomes disadvantages like that. But he damn near did.

[DiogenesLamp]

"For those screaming 'WAPO hit job' you had a candidate:

Who when asked if he dated teenagers as a 30 yr old said 'not usually'

Warned of shariah courts being established in Michigan and Illinois

Had surrogates tell a pregnant host 'Doug Jones wants to abort your baby'

Said America was better during the era of slavery.... TO A BLACK MAN

Wanted to repeal the 13th and 14th amendments

Had his wife counter charges of insensitivity towards Jews with 'my lawyer is a Jew'

Spent the final day of the campaign arguing over whether people had to take the oath of office on a Christian bible, and if homosexuality should be criminalized.

But please, please tell me how he lost due to a media hit job."

When I saw your name as the last poster in this thread,  I said to myself,   "I wonder what ill thought out absurdity shall have emerged from the keyboard of Kevin Davis?"   


And now I know!   


Yes,  it was pretty much the media hit job that did him in.   That other stuff would be given very little consideration in Alabama,  but the possibility of electing an accused child molester/rapist?   And his own party acting like the accusations were true? 

 *THAT*  was a bridge too far.   


But don't mind me,  just carry on with your foolish assumption  that you have a grasp of Alabama demographics. 

[RetBobbyMI]

Not withstanding anything about Moore himself, anyone in the on the GOP side of the Senate who complains or makes any statement that they can't get anything done because of the slim majority or the Dem obstructionists, ought to flamed face first into the podium.  They have no room to any complaint when they sent one of their own off to the wolves without any support.  If they had their super majority already, then I would understand. But in these times, shame on them. 

[Smokin Joe]

Not going on to say that he has fuzzy memories of all the other teen chicks he was "dating" in his 30's.

Roy's a shitbag. Most of the country thinks so. A hell of a lot of solid right wing voters in AL think so. Who are you trying to convince that he is such a great dude here? Yourself? Elections over. He will forever be known as the teen dating 3 time loser.

BTW I can't find any hint that dirty Roy filed anything but his fingernails.....

https://www.google.com/search?q=Roy+Moore+lawsuit&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b

Frankly, I don't give a damn what the "rest of the country" thinks, because with alarming consistency, they don't (think).

[Smokin Joe]

Politics is dirty, I forget who but some candidate was saying Carson was dropping out in Iowa and Rubio in Hawaii. There is a lot of this going on.

CNN

[Sanguine]

@Sanguine
@Smokin Joe

In addition to the media smear campaign Moore was outspent by Jones 14 to 1. Members of his own party, including Alabama's other senator, campaigned against him.

It may be true that Moore could've ran a better campaign, but c'mon - no one overcomes disadvantages like that. But he damn near did.

@skeeter, @Smokin Joe, yes, the lack of funding was a problem, but I was just commenting that you can't win without the right persona any more.  Look at Hillary.  All the money and support in the world and she came off as unlikeable. I don't think she'd share if you went to have a beer with her.

[DiogenesLamp]

Frankly, I don't give a damn what the "rest of the country" thinks, because with alarming consistency, they don't (think).

"Sheep, thought I."   

[bigheadfred]

I used to roll my eyes at "conspiracy theories",   but over the last two years I have noticed a pattern of behavior that leads me to believe the two parties are pretty much just sock puppets for the same influential people who more or less control American politics and policies. 


They are the "elite"  moneyed donors,  most of which live between Washington DC and Boston Mass.   They own the media,  and the media is a tool to influence the public to go along with whatever this "elite"  considers to be in it's best interests;   Usually to continue or accelerate spending from Washington DC. 


Yes,  I know it's a crazy theory that rich people who make money from government spending/policy might actually use their wealth and influence to keep that revenue stream coming at as high a level as possible. 


"Mercantilism"  sort of got out of hand.

uh huh

When they brought about the Federal Reserve the game was OVER.

And TENS OF MILLIONS of people have either been useful idiots, cannon fodder, or both, since.

[Hoodat]

"For those screaming 'WAPO hit job' you had a candidate:

Who when asked if he dated teenagers as a 30 yr old said 'not usually'

Warned of shariah courts being established in Michigan and Illinois

Had surrogates tell a pregnant host 'Doug Jones wants to abort your baby'

Said America was better during the era of slavery.... TO A BLACK MAN

Wanted to repeal the 13th and 14th amendments

Had his wife counter charges of insensitivity towards Jews with 'my lawyer is a Jew'

Spent the final day of the campaign arguing over whether people had to take the oath of office on a Christian bible, and if homosexuality should be criminalized.

But please, please tell me how he lost due to a media hit job."

This ^^^^^

[bigheadfred]

"Sheep, thought I."

Electric dreams.

[DiogenesLamp]

@skeeter, @Smokin Joe, yes, the lack of funding was a problem, but I was just commenting that you can't win without the right persona any more.  Look at Hillary.  All the money and support in the world and she came off as unlikeable. I don't think she'd share if you went to have a beer with her.

I'm thinking that accusations of child molesting and attempted rape would tend to make anyone viewed as "unlikeable." 

But beyond that,  I can name any number of office holders who I do not consider "likeable"  at all.   Don't they say "Politics is Hollywood for ugly people"?   

[DiogenesLamp]

uh huh

When they brought about the Federal Reserve the game was OVER.

And TENS OF MILLIONS of people have either been useful idiots, cannon fodder, or both, since.

I am coming around to this view more with each passing year.   The Federal Reserve makes a lot of these money games possible.   

[DiogenesLamp]

Electric dreams.

Actually,  "Clockwork Orange."   But the sentiment applies very well in politics where huge masses of people really are led by the nose or driven by noise in the direction they are desired to go. 


What we think of as "Democracy"  is really mostly a staged drama.   You only have to manipulate the middle few percent (in most cases)  to create the outcome you prefer.   

[TomSea]

"For those screaming 'WAPO hit job' you had a candidate:

Who when asked if he dated teenagers as a 30 yr old said 'not usually'

Warned of shariah courts being established in Michigan and Illinois

Had surrogates tell a pregnant host 'Doug Jones wants to abort your baby'

Said America was better during the era of slavery.... TO A BLACK MAN

Wanted to repeal the 13th and 14th amendments

Had his wife counter charges of insensitivity towards Jews with 'my lawyer is a Jew'

Spent the final day of the campaign arguing over whether people had to take the oath of office on a Christian bible, and if homosexuality should be criminalized.

But please, please tell me how he lost due to a media hit job."

True, on top of this, it's one of the reddest states in the US, Strange or Brooks would have walked it in all likelihood.

[DiogenesLamp]

True, on top of this, it's one of the reddest states in the US, Strange or Brooks would have walked it in all likelihood.

Or any Republican not accused of rape and child molesting and treated as if he were guilty by the members of his own party.   


Yeah,  anyone that didn't have to go through that would have walked it. 


Freakin unbelievable that people keep ignoring the f***ing elephant in the room. 


It's like i'm Mr Douglas in "Green Acres."   

[Hoodat]

@dfwgator

[Smokin Joe]

Or any Republican not accused of rape and child molesting and treated as if he were guilty by the members of his own party.   


Yeah,  anyone that didn't have to go through that would have walked it. 


Freakin unbelievable that people keep ignoring the f***ing elephant in the room. 


It's like i'm Mr Douglas in "Green Acres."

Amazing, isn't it? I'm gobsmacked at the reactions around here.

[TomSea]

I was just reading Al.com and they have an article that said Jones' first day was as a Centrist. If he wants to keep that seat 3 years from now, he may have to become a Centrist. It sounds possible.

Jones went to a Baptist Law School I understand and he's a Methodist, so we will see if he changes his demeanor any.

[dfwgator]

I was just reading Al.com and they have an article that said Jones' first day was as a Centrist. If he wants to keep that seat 3 years from now, he may have to become a Centrist. It sounds possible.

Jones went to a Baptist Law School I understand and he's a Methodist, so we will see if he changes his demeanor any.

Horse crap.  When Chuckie says "Jump!"  Jones will say, "How High?"

[DiogenesLamp]

Amazing, isn't it? I'm gobsmacked at the reactions around here.

It feels as if real, thinking human beings were replaced by mindless Pod people. 





Our guy get's knifed in the Front by the Democrats,  and then Knifed in the Back by the Republicans,  and then people complain he is a "flawed candidate"  because he has holes in him.


Unreal. 

[DiogenesLamp]

I was just reading Al.com and they have an article that said Jones' first day was as a Centrist. If he wants to keep that seat 3 years from now, he may have to become a Centrist. It sounds possible.

Jones went to a Baptist Law School I understand and he's a Methodist, so we will see if he changes his demeanor any.

What I am hearing is:


"Other than that,  Mrs Lincoln,  how did you like the play? "   

[Sighlass]

I have cited specific examples where Roy has either said or was fired over being a Constitutional illiterate. Do you claim that none of that happened?

Roy Moore is a phony loudmouth and a stupid moron.....

Alabama voters restored Moore to the chief justiceship in 2012, but once again he would not finish his term. This time the issue was gay marriage. Like many, Moore feels Obergefell v. Hodges was wrongly decided, but he, further, believed that the Constitution does not require Alabama to recognize same-sex unions legalized by the decision. As in his fight over the Decalogue monument, Moore thought his opinions entitled him to disregard federal court orders. This time he went even further, publicly declaring his resistance to Obergefell and instructing state probate court judges to follow suit, even after federal courts issued orders against Alabama officials. Moore again denied the authority of federal courts, and again the Alabama judicial inquiry commission cut his term short.

@Frank Cannon ...   You say Roy Moore is a "Constitutional illiterate" and offer a liberal version of the events on his second removal as proof. 3 arguments in your article you quote... I will address only one.

Lets just say even the liberal NYsLimes takes issue with it. Stupid classless jokes and articles that don't even scrape at truth are a waste of time to read in my opinion.

Try these two articles that at least somewhat honestly get to the constitutionality of Moore's position. There is better in depth articles, but I would have to dig through a lot of junk to find them (if they are even still valid URLs).. 

The problem was, the plaintiffs sued only Luther Strange, the attorney general, who is an official of the executive branch. The attorney general doesn't issue marriage licenses and doesn't oversee marriages in the state. Elected probate judges in Alabama's counties do that, and they do not work for the attorney general. In other words, Granade ordered the wrong guy to start issuing marriage licenses.

Moore saw that instantly. As head of the judicial branch, he ordered probate judges not to issue marriage licenses to gay couples. Moore's order noted that, "the United States District Court for the Southern District of Alabama has not issued an order directed to the Probate Judges of Alabama to issue marriage licenses that violate Alabama law." And indeed Judge Granade had not.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/no-the-1960s-havent-returned-to-alabama/article/2560096

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/11/magazine/in-sort-of-defense-of-roy-moore.html

..........the objections Moore is raising are shared on the United States Supreme Court by Clarence Thomas and Antonin Scalia — and not only because the two conservatives have opposed same-sex marriage; they are fighting over a change in the definition of marriage, yes, but also over how that change is being made.

Roy Moore is right that on its face, Granade’s order doesn’t require state probate judges all over Alabama — who weren’t named in the case Granade heard — to issue marriage licenses. Granade merely instructed Alabama’s attorney general not to enforce the state’s same-sex-marriage ban. 

But it’s not fair to say that Roy Moore is acting like George Wallace. When Alabama’s segregationist governor blocked the entrance of the University of Alabama in 1963, in defiance of court-ordered integration, he was standing in the way of the Supreme Court and its desegregation ruling in Brown v. Board of Education nine years earlier — as well as a federal injunction ordering the university to admit two black students. In that case, the Supreme Court absolutely had the power to tell Alabama what to do, because it is the Supreme Court. But Judge Granade is not. And so far, at least, her order doesn’t even clearly apply to all of Alabama’s (understandably confused) probate judges. If that changes — a hearing has been set to sort this out — then they’ll know for sure it’s time to start signing marriage licenses.

In the meantime, you might even argue that Moore has done the country a favor, by making us think about the various methods for changing the law, and which are better — or at least more orderly — than others.

Your disingenuous article claims "Moore thought his opinions entitled him to disregard federal court orders.".....

The truth is the federal judge left a loophole and Moore being a good Constitutional scholar used it to defend the Alabama constitution as he was elected to do. This of course pissed off a lot of folks, so they put forth the unelected lawyer group to dismiss him because he was too witty to pin down otherwise.

There is a saying in Alabama... Bo knows... (reference to Bo Jackson knows lots of stuff)... Well Roy knows how to fight and do it constitutionally... despite how liberal media tries to spin it later on.

__________

Ping to @bigum (and thanks)...

[Frank Cannon]

There is a saying in Alabama... Bo knows... (reference to Bo Jackson knows lots of stuff)... Well Roy knows how to fight and do it constitutionally... despite how liberal media tries to spin it later on.

We have a saying in PA....Roy Moore is a shitbag.

BTW Roy couldn't fight his way out of a school of minnows. Know how I know? Because he added another humiliating defeat to his resume last night. By blaming the media on that massive loss only means one thing: Your state is full of drooling morons voters who can't figure things out on their own.

[Smokin Joe]

We have a saying in PA....Roy Moore is a shitbag.

BTW Roy couldn't fight his way out of a school of minnows. Know how I know? Because he added another humiliating defeat to his resume last night. By blaming the media on that massive loss only means one thing: Your state is full of drooling morons voters who can't figure things out on their own.

What would a bleep yankee know of Alabama, anyway?

[Sighlass]

We have a saying in PA....Roy Moore is a shitbag.

......Know how I know?

Obviously you don't know, you just quoted an article that was out in left field about how Roy was unconstitutional after the gay issue. I am beginning to doubt you know much of anything except how to curse and flirt with the girls on site.

When the leftist NYTimes is more honest than you, something is wrong.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/11/magazine/in-sort-of-defense-of-roy-moore.html

[TomSea]

Horse crap.  When Chuckie says "Jump!"  Jones will say, "How High?"

Relatively, the Democratic Senator from North Dakota, Heidi Heitkamp is not an ultra-liberal like some of the other Democratic Senators.  If Jones does act in this liberal way, he could be out after 3 years.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Heidi_Heitkamp.htm

Mixed signals, it is said ND has some pro-life Democrats, she may not pass this test depending on what source is used. 

[Jazzhead]

Our guy get's knifed in the Front by the Democrats,  and then Knifed in the Back by the Republicans,  and then people complain he is a "flawed candidate"  because he has holes in him.


Unreal.

You're denying reality.   Kevin Davis said it brilliantly: 

"For those screaming 'WAPO hit job' you had a candidate:

Who when asked if he dated teenagers as a 30 yr old said 'not usually'

Warned of shariah courts being established in Michigan and Illinois

Had surrogates tell a pregnant host 'Doug Jones wants to abort your baby'

Said America was better during the era of slavery.... TO A BLACK MAN

Wanted to repeal the 13th and 14th amendments

Had his wife counter charges of insensitivity towards Jews with 'my lawyer is a Jew'

Spent the final day of the campaign arguing over whether people had to take the oath of office on a Christian bible, and if homosexuality should be criminalized.

But please, please tell me how he lost due to a media hit job."

And Kevin didn't even mention Moore's mendacity with respect to his "Foundation for Moral Law".   Here's how Karl Rove described it this morning:

   

a classic money grab cloaked in evangelical garb.   Most of the funds it raised through telemarketing appeals for support of traditional values were spent on fundraising costs. What remained largely went to salaries for the principals, Mr. Moore and his wife, and his advisers.  Then (surprise) it turned out he had grossly misled the public about his compensation from the enterprise. 

Gotta keep Sassy in oats, I guess - at the expense of the evangelical saps he persuaded to part with their money and their moral authority.

 

[Jazzhead]

There used to be some Democrats who were classified as conservative -- usually on moral issues like abortion.  Bob Casey was Democrat governor of PA who was staunchly pro-life. 

His son Bob Jr. is senator from PA.  The media calls him "centrist" and even "conservative" like his father.  But trust me -- Junior is nothing like the old man.  Essentially, he just follows the Dem leadership. 

I don't think there are any Democrats who are centrist or conservative anymore.

The guy from West Virginia (Mnuchin?), perhaps.   Susan Collins and maybe McCain from our side.    That's just about it as far as the Senate's concerned.    Everywhere else centrists are a dying breed,  rendered irrelevant in a world where politics is all about group identity,  and compromise in the name of public service is mocked. 

Ironic, of course, in view of the reality that there are millions who are conservative on some issues and liberal on others.   Identity politics is incompatible with moderation.       

[jmyrlefuller]

Our guy get's knifed in the Front by the Democrats,  and then Knifed in the Back by the Republicans,  and then people complain he is a "flawed candidate"  because he has holes in him.

It had to be both to lose as a Republican in Alabama.

Even with the opposition, Moore didn't put up much of a fight, and it's always the candidate's responsibility to run his or her own campaign. He didn't campaign much, he refused to debate his opponent and (in a nutshell) underestimated what he was up against. There were plenty of things within his power that he could have done to strike back against this.

[Cyber Liberty]

Yaaay!  1,000 posts!

[TomSea]

There used to be some Democrats who were classified as conservative -- usually on moral issues like abortion.  Bob Casey was Democrat governor of PA who was staunchly pro-life. 

His son Bob Jr. is senator from PA.  The media calls him "centrist" and even "conservative" like his father.  But trust me -- Junior is nothing like the old man.  Essentially, he just follows the Dem leadership. 

I don't think there are any Democrats who are centrist or conservative anymore.

In Lousiana, Democrats helped pass pro-life legislation, there's plenty more to this if one looks for it.

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2016/07/27/louisiana-governor-being-pro-life-democrat-bigger-challenge-than-it-should-be

Same kind of deal in North Dakota.

It's usually more at the state level; but it's something.

[dfwgator]

Moore was a flawed candidate AND he was knifed in the back.

[Smokin Joe]

Relatively, the Democratic Senator from North Dakota, Heidi Heitkamp is not an ultra-liberal like some of the other Democratic Senators.  If Jones does act in this liberal way, he could be out after 3 years.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Heidi_Heitkamp.htm

Mixed signals, it is said ND has some pro-life Democrats, she may not pass this test depending on what source is used.

When push comes to shove, Heitkamp will vote with the Dems. The east side of the State and the Reservations elected her. She may be a little less liberal than most, but Democrats are Democrats.

[Smokin Joe]

Moore was a flawed candidate AND he was knifed in the back.

Keep telling yourself Moore was flawed. The electorate cannot take responsibility for its inability to discern a hit job. After all the mob is always right, and if you don't think so, they'll stone you or burn you at the stake to prove it.

Lying media and stupid voters get most of the credit, but mostly lying media.

[jmyrlefuller]

Yaaay!  1,000 posts!

Most of which came long after the election was decided, too.

[txradioguy]

When push comes to shove, Heitkamp will vote with the Dems. The east side of the State and the Reservations elected her. She may be a little less liberal than most, but Democrats are Democrats.

And when Chuckie or Nancy tells them to jump they ask "how high" on the way up.

[TomSea]

When push comes to shove, Heitkamp will vote with the Dems. The east side of the State and the Reservations elected her. She may be a little less liberal than most, but Democrats are Democrats.

I'd like to see her out, I think her seat is up in 2018. Yes, it is.

They do a balancing act, they can toss out a bone to show they aren't for gun control or for a farm bill; that might get them reelected.

But at the state level in ND, they have definitely passed pro-life legislation with support from Democrats.

So, the general question seems to be, are there conservative democrats? Maybe at the state level, not really in DC.