Author Topic: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal  (Read 9313 times)

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Offline libertybele

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #75 on: May 09, 2017, 12:05:55 am »


This is a job for "Mission Impossible".  Where's James Phelps when you need him?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 12:07:59 am by libertybele »
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online Elderberry

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #76 on: May 09, 2017, 12:18:19 am »
This is a job for "Mission Impossible".  Where's James Phelps when you need him?

I think that all the smoke got to him.


Offline libertybele

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #77 on: May 09, 2017, 12:27:16 am »
I think that all the smoke got to him.



Yep ... looks like the DEMS got to him!
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline corbe

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #78 on: May 09, 2017, 12:33:12 am »
You realize that Cruz himself lobbied HARD with the House Freedom Caucus to get their votes on this bill...right?

   One thing I've noticed that is prevalent throughout this thread is the Trumpsters trying to convince me that somehow Sen. Cruz is directly or indirectly responsible for this CF that the House just passed because yall are just trying to knock Cruz off that perceived pedestal you think we have put him upon, You are mistaken in your premise that we, unlike you, worship any politician AT ALL, they are all mere mortals, fallible.

   To address you direct question @Mesaclone The only way Cruz has any chance of fixing this, fulfilling his promise to the voters of Texas and during the Primary, is to get this crap sandwich away from Ryan and the House and get a crack at it.  All we can do now is pray that he succeeds.

/rant off
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Offline libertybele

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #79 on: May 09, 2017, 12:41:01 am »
   One thing I've noticed that is prevalent throughout this thread is the Trumpsters trying to convince me that somehow Sen. Cruz is directly or indirectly responsible for this CF that the House just passed because yall are just trying to knock Cruz off that perceived pedestal you think we have put him upon, You are mistaken in your premise that we, unlike you, worship any politician AT ALL, they are all mere mortals, fallible.

   To address you direct question @Mesaclone The only way Cruz has any chance of fixing this, fulfilling his promise to the voters of Texas and during the Primary, is to get this crap sandwich away from Ryan and the House and get a crack at it.  All we can do now is pray that he succeeds.

/rant off

It's going to take more than a "Novena", 3 "Hail Mary's" and a dozen "Our Father's".
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline corbe

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #80 on: May 09, 2017, 12:51:46 am »
   McConnell is already lining up speakers for the Please let this die seminar

No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #81 on: May 09, 2017, 01:05:18 am »
   One thing I've noticed that is prevalent throughout this thread is the Trumpsters trying to convince me that somehow Sen. Cruz is directly or indirectly responsible for this CF that the House just passed because yall are just trying to knock Cruz off that perceived pedestal you think we have put him upon, You are mistaken in your premise that we, unlike you, worship any politician AT ALL, they are all mere mortals, fallible.

   To address you direct question @Mesaclone The only way Cruz has any chance of fixing this, fulfilling his promise to the voters of Texas and during the Primary, is to get this crap sandwich away from Ryan and the House and get a crack at it.  All we can do now is pray that he succeeds.

/rant off

BUMP THAT!

 888high58888

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #82 on: May 09, 2017, 01:27:53 am »
Link??

No link. Hannity today said Cruz explicitly told him how hard he lobbied for the bill with the Freedom Caucus...and how happy he was that nearly all of them came over to vote in favor. Hannity is many things, but a liar he is not.
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #83 on: May 09, 2017, 01:34:23 am »
  One thing I've noticed that is prevalent throughout this thread is the Trumpsters trying to convince me that somehow Sen. Cruz is directly or indirectly responsible for this CF that the House just passed because yall are just trying to knock Cruz off that perceived pedestal you think we have put him upon, You are mistaken in your premise that we, unlike you, worship any politician AT ALL, they are all mere mortals, fallible.

   To address you direct question @Mesaclone The only way Cruz has any chance of fixing this, fulfilling his promise to the voters of Texas and during the Primary, is to get this crap sandwich away from Ryan and the House and get a crack at it.  All we can do now is pray that he succeeds.

/rant off

Your observation skills are atrocious if that's what you've noticed. Cruz is the "chosen one", we Trump supporters simply back the man because his policies and approach are effective. You are the intellectual equivalent of a man with no eyes calling a one eyed man blind. 

More importantly, nobody is trying to convince you that Cruz is responsible for the bill. What IS clear is that Cruz lobbied hard FOR the bill and was a key part of swinging the votes of the Freedom Caucus in favor of it...along with Rand Paul, who also did good lobbying work on its behalf.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 01:34:58 am by Mesaclone »
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Online Elderberry

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #84 on: May 09, 2017, 01:35:40 am »
 The Freedom Caucus source said Sens. Mike Lee and Ted Cruz, two staunchly conservative members of the upper chamber, have been "heavily involved" in meetings between the camps. Cruz and Lee, along with Sen. Rand Paul, came out along with the Freedom Caucus in opposition to the original version of the AHCA for not going far enough in its repeal of Obamacare.

The Freedom Caucus source said Meadows has also met with Sens. John Thune, Bill Cassidy, and Tom Cotton about the bill. Cassidy and Cotton have been critical of some of the concessions that got the Freedom Caucus's members on board.

   Business Insider Bob Bryan  May 8, 2017 http://www.businessinsider.com/house-freedom-caucus-mark-meadows-senate-healthcare-bill-2017-5

Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #85 on: May 09, 2017, 01:49:39 am »
Quote
Rand Paul hates ObamaCare, but his vote could be a tough one to pick up for McConnell.

Paul wants to get rid of all of ObamaCare’s regulations, like guaranteed coverage for people with pre-existing conditions.

His dislikes the House bill’s refundable tax credits to help people buy insurance, which he calls a “subsidy by another name.”

“It’s going to take little bit of work to get me to a yes vote,” Paul said on Fox News Thursday.

“I really want to repeal it. I just don’t want to replace it with ObamaCare lite or another federal program. The programs they put in place will be there forever,” he said, adding that “plussing it up with more federal subsidies — that’s going to make it much more difficult for me.”

It’s unlikely the Senate would pass a bill that doesn’t help people buy insurance, however.

Many senators think that credits are needed and that the ones in the House bill aren’t enough for older and low-income individuals.

This suggests that if Paul sticks to his guns, it will be very hard to win his vote.

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/332153-five-senators-to-watch-in-heathcare-fight


http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,261796.0.html
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Offline corbe

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #86 on: May 09, 2017, 01:52:48 am »
Your observation skills are atrocious if that's what you've noticed. Cruz is the "chosen one", we Trump supporters simply back the man because his policies and approach are effective. You are the intellectual equivalent of a man with no eyes calling a one eyed man blind. 

More importantly, nobody is trying to convince you that Cruz is responsible for the bill. What IS clear is that Cruz lobbied hard FOR the bill and was a key part of swinging the votes of the Freedom Caucus in favor of it...along with Rand Paul, who also did good lobbying work on its behalf.

   I explained why Cruz, Lee, Meadows, Paul would lobby the HFC to vote for this turd.

Quote
What he's in favor of is THIS bill with some modifications from the Senate...which is no more a full repeal than what we currently have. He's not an idiot, he knows full repeal will NEVER pass the Senate...as it couldn't even get through the House. I think we all hope he can squeeze in some more conservative concepts into the Senate version, but he is going to compromise as much as necessary to get this bill passed. Because he "gets" that pass it must. So you are entirely wrong as to his holding out for some miraculous full repeal, that is not what Cruz is saying.

   Again being a blind man explaining the Sunrise to a one eyed man, I will forever refrain from calling you a cruz hater if you reciprocate and not call me a Trump hater as @Emjay does, if I ever find my integrity these baseless accusations would render it useless.
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #87 on: May 09, 2017, 05:50:45 am »
Thank you, @Right_in_Virginia -- I appreciate the link, although I do not have time to sit and listen for the entire two hours.  Honestly, Cruz's opinion doesn't matter enough to me to spend that much time on it; I'm sure it is interesting enough, but how I feel about the bill will depend more on how it impacts my family and my job than on anything Ted has to say about it.

What it all comes down to doesn't it?  I could care less about parties and politics.  What matters to me is what it will cost me.
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Offline libertybele

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #88 on: May 09, 2017, 11:11:50 am »
What it all comes down to doesn't it?  I could care less about parties and politics.  What matters to me is what it will cost me.

That's the big question.  What is this all going to cost?  Ultimately this is going to effect the entire country, in more than one way.  Will it improve our lives or become detrimental? Which party is going to benefit from all this?  Will it help to create jobs or will it continue to add to unemployment and reduced hours? Will it be available to people who need it the most?  Will seniors carry the biggest financial burden? What about those who are unemployed? What about those who need to switch jobs? Will we be able to keep our doctors? 
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #89 on: May 09, 2017, 11:44:21 am »
It's anti-constitutional and massively intrusive!  I don't care what it costs!  Seriously?

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #90 on: May 09, 2017, 12:19:30 pm »
That's the big question.  What is this all going to cost? Ultimately this is going to effect the entire country, in more than one way.  Will it improve our lives or become detrimental? Which party is going to benefit from all this?  Will it help to create jobs or will it continue to add to unemployment and reduced hours? Will it be available to people who need it the most?  Will seniors carry the biggest financial burden? What about those who are unemployed? What about those who need to switch jobs? Will we be able to keep our doctors?

All good questions,  and the answers aren't necessarily clear or easy.   But the philosophical question is pretty simple -  what part of the cost of health care should be borne by each of us as individuals, and what part should be borne by the general community?    How do you answer that question, LB, especially in the context of the reality that we all consume different amounts of health care,  and those of who've been unlucky in life's lottery consume disproportionate amounts?

If you're an advocate of single payer,  the reality of disparate health care consumption, cutting across class lines,  requires that the burden be shared by all by means of general taxation. 

If you're an advocate of the status quo,  you place the burden mostly on employers, who'd rather use those dollars to expand production of whatever it is they make or do.

If you're INVAR,  everything's a commie redistributionist plot and the only option for the unfortunate is to pray to God.         

The approach taken by the House bill is to stabilize insurance markets by carving our the sickest and taking them out of the general risk pool,  thereby allowing insurers to lower rates and offer more choices to the rest of us.    Then address the sickest by means of general taxation,  spreading the burden among us all  - as I believe it should be. 

To me, that's an acceptable compromise.   We should as a community address the sickest among us,  and share the burden of their care.   It is morally wrong to require certain folks to bear the burden (in ObamaCare's case,  by forcing young folks unlucky enough to be stuck in the individual insurance market to subsidize care for the sickest.)

As an analogy,  think of the Philadelphia tax on soda and sugary drinks.   It was passed with the justification that revenues from the tax would fund universal pre-K.   But if universal pre-K is such a laudable goal,  shouldn't we all be paying for it, not just those who drink soda?  By what moral calculus are soda drinkers, and soda drinkers alone,  handed that burden?    Same thing with health care - if 5% of the population drives 50% of the spend,  then shouldn't that burden be apportioned fairly and broadly, rather than imposed on young kids who still don't have good jobs with benefits?   

The House bill's risk-pools idea is sound as a pound - so long as it is adequately funded.   My expectation is that the Senate will buy into the concept, but fund the pools to the extent needed to truly succeed - and by succeed I mean not only providing care for the sickest, but freeing insurance markets to offer real and fairly-priced choices for the rest of us.         



« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 12:24:40 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline libertybele

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #91 on: May 09, 2017, 12:29:19 pm »
One thing that I keep bringing up and which hasn't been addressed by our elected officials, nor any mention of this while the House was bent on keeping the ACA and tweaking it here and there; what about the economic impact of providing healthcare to non-citizens?  That is what is driving up costs.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline libertybele

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #92 on: May 09, 2017, 12:44:02 pm »
It's anti-constitutional and massively intrusive!  I don't care what it costs!  Seriously?

We all know the scenario all to well; because of rising healthcare costs, there has been a push (especially under Clinton) for healthcare reform.  Bammy burdened us with the ACA and in 2012 the Supreme Court upheld the ACA; in essence deeming it constitutional.  Unfortunately we have had to live with that.  That is why there is demand for repeal. The House failed to honor their commitment of full repeal and unless some miracle takes place in the Senate, full repeal isn't going to happen.  That is why I made the statement; it's going to cost the entire country; we just don't know how much yet or how it's going to affect us individually.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #93 on: May 09, 2017, 12:45:55 pm »
One thing that I keep bringing up and which hasn't been addressed by our elected officials, nor any mention of this while the House was bent on keeping the ACA and tweaking it here and there; what about the economic impact of providing healthcare to non-citizens?  That is what is driving up costs.

Again, the question is who should pay for the cost.   Remember,  a hospital is obliged to treat someone who shows up at the emergency room, no matter whether he/she has insurance (it's irrelevant from the hospital's perspective whether the individual is a citizen or not, if he shows up at the hospital's door, the hospital is obliged to treat him.)   

If the hospital bears the burden, it will pass the cost along to those of us who have insurance.  Is that fair?   Or should the burden be allocated more broadly among us all?   
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #94 on: May 09, 2017, 12:50:55 pm »
Bammy burdened us with the ACA

The ACA burdened some of us;  it was a godsend to others.   There were winners and losers under the pre-ACA system,  different winners and losers under the ACA, and still different winners and losers under the House bill.   Do you think the pre-ACA system was fairer?   Or doesn't fairness enter into it?     

LB - just who in your view should be paying the cost of care for the sickest among us?
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #95 on: May 09, 2017, 01:10:37 pm »
We all know the scenario all to well; because of rising healthcare costs, there has been a push (especially under Clinton) for healthcare reform.  Bammy burdened us with the ACA and in 2012 the Supreme Court upheld the ACA; in essence deeming it constitutional.  Unfortunately we have had to live with that.  That is why there is demand for repeal. The House failed to honor their commitment of full repeal and unless some miracle takes place in the Senate, full repeal isn't going to happen.  That is why I made the statement; it's going to cost the entire country; we just don't know how much yet or how it's going to affect us individually.

$$ is not the main problem!

Offline TomSea

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #96 on: May 09, 2017, 02:34:39 pm »
Let's hope the Senators get something done for once and improve this bill.

Yeah, ya'll will see how great their accomplishments are when they have to do more than words.

Senators will bitch and moan and they don't do crap; let's see them fix things up.

Here are the great ones chances to actually do something. Let's see how they do.  And then, if they don't fix it up, talk them down equally as they do others.

Nothing will work except the original free market system but that's not realistic to expect unfortunately.

We'll probably get the crap sandwich from others, criticize, complain but they won't do jack.

« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 03:08:52 pm by TomSea »

Offline rodamala

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #97 on: May 09, 2017, 05:22:37 pm »
So you long for a party system like European countries?

FYI there have already been several "conservative" parties in the US.

American Independent
https://ballotpedia.org/American_Independent_Party

Constitution-since 1992
https://www.constitutionparty.com/

For the most part, these efforts have the fine rhetoric of Alan Keyes, and the results of Tom Hoefling

Of course no offense to either; just not effective in terms of results.

Not that lack of results even bothered the adherents of 3rd party adventures.

I long for a party that is not chock full of effing scumbag Arlen Specter wannabes.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #98 on: May 09, 2017, 06:07:29 pm »
No link. Hannity today said Cruz explicitly told him how hard he lobbied for the bill with the Freedom Caucus...and how happy he was that nearly all of them came over to vote in favor. Hannity is many things, but a liar he is not.

So it's fake news. Got it.
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Offline libertybele

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Re: Cruz: 'Catastrophic' if Senate fails to pass ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #99 on: May 09, 2017, 06:52:04 pm »
$$ is not the main problem!

Again, it was ruled constitutional. I highly doubt we are going to get full repeal out of the Senate. Mandates and taxes equal cost, anyway you look at it.  Illegals and supporting those that abuse the system have skyrocketed costs.
The ACA burdened some of us;  it was a godsend to others.   There were winners and losers under the pre-ACA system,  different winners and losers under the ACA, and still different winners and losers under the House bill.   Do you think the pre-ACA system was fairer?   Or doesn't fairness enter into it?     

LB - just who in your view should be paying the cost of care for the sickest among us?

Jazz ... stats show that healthcare rose for the majority, many lost their doctors, jobs were lost, hours were slashed.  I haven't really heard of the ACA as being a godsend, except to those who were granted health insurance under the Medicaid expansion that weren't insured before.  Fairness is the government stopping healthcare benefits to illegals. Fairness is covering those who have paid into the system but find themselves in the unfortunate situation of losing their jobs and go to work for another employer and can get insurance. Thankfully, I have been fortunate so far as to not to have to use the ACA so I can only speak of experiences of others before and after the ACA.  I do know that family members, friends and neighbors who have attempted to use or are on Bammycare have said that it's a nightmare.  I haven't encountered one person who considered it a blessing in any way.  I do know that the non-profit health care system that I used to work for lost a ton of money in benefits from Medicaid because of the ACA.  Even those with insurance have a hard time paying for a critically ill child or premature birth.  I do know that before the ACA Medicaid covered more than private insurance in some cases for premature births. They are the only level III NICU in the area and thanks to private donations and volunteers they just built a new non-profit  7 story, 300,000 square foot facility.  So, I've honestly only seen and heard of the detrimental issues the ACA has caused.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.