The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre

[kevindavis007]

wasn't it originally supposed to have its debut in January or something?

I guess they are taking their time..

[geronl]

They should let me produce a new series. It won't focus on a single ship or crew. I'll call it:

Star Trek: Universe

The opening will have different characters speaking part of the intro

Space, the final frontier.

These are the stories of the Federation Starfleet.

It's endless mission: To explore strange new worlds,

to seek out new life and new civilizations,

to boldly go where where no one has gone before

.

I envision at least five ships of different classes. Their captain's are brought together by an admiral to discuss the situation in a neglected corner of the federation where Klingons and Romulans share a border region. It seems that both and others have established colonies in systems abandoned by a race called the Durnan, which all mysteriously vanished suddenly. These five ships are assigned by a Starfleet stretched thin after the Dominion War to patrol the sector, try to establish peace between bitterly opposed colonies, investigate the Durnan and other things.

Recently though there have been reports of a possible Borg sphere in the area. One private vessel claims a close contact and that one of its food replicators was beamed off their ship. Analysts say the sphere is likely in bad repair, having somehow survived since the last war with the Borg.
---

I envision the first episode opening with a "Captain's log" entry from a Borg reporting that their sphere was heavily damaged and cut off from the collective. Being cut off killed nearly the entire crew, only a handful survived. They all represent different species, some regained partial memories from before assimilation but all reported bad effects from being cut off. Fortunately the activation of an empty carrier wave mimicking the hive mind, albeit silent, kept them sane.

They had to work out how to be individuals, how to obtain nutrition since the regeneration units no longer function and how to return "home" or rather what is their "home".

--

Do you think it'd be unfair to spend most of the first episode on Borg survivors? lol.

----

I would have 4 units filming separate episodes at the same time, each focused on a different vessel (they can hop in and out for smaller parts in each others episodes) and then every 5th episode involving more or all of them. You might recall some Dr Who episodes that focus on others with the main cast barely popping in to save the day (saves money and time and at least its not a flashback episode)

[ABX]

wasn't it originally supposed to have its debut in January or something?

January, then May, now they won't even return to production until this summer.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/star-trek-discovery-delayed-again-as-spocks-father-is-cast-965494

I would guess Fall 2018 the way this is going.

[geronl]

January, then May, now they won't even return to production until this summer.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/star-trek-discovery-delayed-again-as-spocks-father-is-cast-965494

I would guess Fall 2018 the way this is going.

and a writers strike might affect it, too

[sneakypete]

The who Shaw thing was interesting because she was a scientist who had a strong faith in God that she refused to give up.

Its so rare for Christianity to be treated with anything other than contempt in sci fi that its notable when it isn't.

@Cripplecreek

Well,to be fair,Christianity has done nothing but portray science as an evil instrument of Satan ever since the Middle Ages.

What goes around,comes around.

[Sanguine]

@Cripplecreek

Well,to be fair,Christianity has done nothing but portray science as an evil instrument of Satan ever since the Middle Ages.

What goes around,comes around.

Well, except for all the Christian scientists.

[sneakypete]

Ridley Scott is one of those enigmatic personalities who defy categorization - maybe intentionally. Who knows? He professes to be an atheist, yet one may discern a reverence for spirituality in many (all) of his serious films.

@LateForLunch

I know nothing about the man other than he puts out very entertaining movies,but MAYBE  he just doesn't accept the western version of God as being anything like an actual God,and is waiting for the "real God" to show up,maybe/probably even in a different form than humanity?

People today,right here in the 21st Century are being murdered for being non-believers because it is "God's will that the unfaithful be put to death".

Religion as we know it and as it is practiced on THIS planet is more of a police state mind control mechanism than an actual belief system. Even "GAWDS" jolly old fat PR guy,Kris Kringle/Santa, "knows what you have been thinking,and knows when you have been naughty or nice..." Hitler and Stalin,as well as every other tyrant in western history,including various Popes had to bust a load considering that one.

Ironically enough,in today's age of instant communications we are now AT the age where God/Big Massa Goobermint really DOES know what you have been thinking,and knows if you have been naughty or nice.

Hard to love a master,but obviously many,many people confuse fear with love.

[sneakypete]

From what I have seen from the clip, the android killed our makers..

@kevindavis

IF that is so,the android also killed IT'S makers.

[sneakypete]

I'm a bit paranoid.. 


I just don't want the following happen to me:


1. Have a lot of implants and nanites in me.
2. Have a snake inside me
3. or be part of the main course....
4. or have something burst out my stomach
5. or have a creature face hugging and put some kind of alien eggs in me.


But that is just me

@kevindavis

WHAT????

Where is your sense of adventure?

[bigheadfred]

@kevindavis

WHAT????

Where is your sense of adventure?

Mine is in tackling a steak. Not being tackled as a steak.

[Cripplecreek]

Well, except for all the Christian scientists.

Here is one of those evil Christians now (Georges Lemaître) likely discussing astrophysics with a Jewish colleague.

[sneakypete]

Well, except for all the Christian scientists.

@Sanguine

I don't know much about them other than they are a fairly recent construct. The Catholic Church of old would have had them put to death in pots of flaming oil to teach them about Christian kindness and love.

Not that any of the non-Christian religions that I am aware of were any better.

[Smokin Joe]

@Sanguine

I don't know much about them other than they are a fairly recent construct. The Catholic Church of old would have had them put to death in pots of flaming oil to teach them about Christian kindness and love.

Not that any of the non-Christian religions that I am aware of were any better.

I thought the pots of flaming oil stuff was reserved for suspected crypto-Muslims in Spain.

[Ghost Bear]

@Sanguine

I don't know much about them other than they are a fairly recent construct. The Catholic Church of old would have had them put to death in pots of flaming oil to teach them about Christian kindness and love.

Not that any of the non-Christian religions that I am aware of were any better.

Wikipedia's List of Catholic cleric-scientists

Please note, the above list is just Catholic clerics (priests, bishops, cardinals, and even a Pope) who made significant contributions to science.

There's also Wikipedia's list of Catholic scientists, scientists who were also members of the Catholic church. Note that while many are "recent" (post, say, 1700) many of the names are older, some dating back as far as the tenth century (Pope Sylvester II, c. 946–1003, was the oldest name I could find on both lists.)

[Sanguine]

@Sanguine

I don't know much about them other than they are a fairly recent construct. The Catholic Church of old would have had them put to death in pots of flaming oil to teach them about Christian kindness and love.

Not that any of the non-Christian religions that I am aware of were any better.

Galileo, van Leeuwenhoek, Newton, Copernicus, Bacon, and Kepler were Christians. 

[Cripplecreek]

Wikipedia's List of Catholic cleric-scientists

Please note, the above list is just Catholic clerics (priests, bishops, cardinals, and even a Pope) who made significant contributions to science.

There's also Wikipedia's list of Catholic scientists, scientists who were also members of the Catholic church. Note that while many are "recent" (post, say, 1700) many of the names are older, some dating back as far as the tenth century (Pope Sylvester II, c. 946–1003, was the oldest name I could find on both lists.)

For the most part the scientists who got into trouble with the church in the past often got into trouble for reasons other than scientific disagreements with the church. For instance Galileo was placed under house arrest for the perception that he personally attacked Pope Urban VIII who had personally supported Galileo to that point.

And on the Protestant side you had men like Cotton Mather who conducted experiments with everything from cross pollination of crops to immunization (Variolation). There were some arguments with the church elders but despite liberal fantasies the Puritans were quite enlightened and his "punishment" amounted to "Don't do this to anyone who doesn't come to you and ask to have it done".

The fact is that a lot of things attributed to Christianity really had very little to do with Christian beliefs and everything to do with people who happened to be Christian falling for popular superstitions of the times they lived in. Increase Mather wrote a letter to local church hierarchy telling them that they needed to shut down the talk of witchcraft because it was pagan superstition. Its no different than people all across the ideological spectrum today falling for conspiracy theories.

[geronl]

 

I wanna go back to sci-fi!

I actually liked this last Dr Who episode even though it was formulaic.

[Cripplecreek]

I wanna go back to sci-fi!

I actually liked this last Dr Who episode even though it was formulaic.

Skywhale revisited under the Thames.

[LateForLunch]

@LateForLunch

I know nothing about the man other than he puts out very entertaining movies,but MAYBE  he just doesn't accept the western version of God as being anything like an actual God,and is waiting for the "real God" to show up,maybe/probably even in a different form than humanity?

People today,right here in the 21st Century are being murdered for being non-believers because it is "God's will that the unfaithful be put to death".

Religion as we know it and as it is practiced on THIS planet is more of a police state mind control mechanism than an actual belief system. Even "GAWDS" jolly old fat PR guy,Kris Kringle/Santa, "knows what you have been thinking,and knows when you have been naughty or nice..." Hitler and Stalin,as well as every other tyrant in western history,including various Popes had to bust a load considering that one.

Ironically enough,in today's age of instant communications we are now AT the age where God/Big Massa Goobermint really DOES know what you have been thinking,and knows if you have been naughty or nice.

Hard to love a master,but obviously many,many people confuse fear with love.

You are rescripting Nietzsche to a large degree in some of those thoughts. In fact, what you express about the "true God" is essentially Nietzsche's point in the essay where he is quoted (more like misquoted, because he never actually wrote or said verbatim) that God was dead. He was most definitely not advocating for atheism, but rather stating that in his view, the conventional view of God that most people held in his time, was dead because it did not serve God so much as human beings (some of whom had less-than-sterling motives in aligning themselves with the divine). No intelligent person would disagree with that, particularly in he context of Nietzsche's time locale (pre-WWI Europe).

Similarly, Emanuel Swedenborg was of the opinion that there is no such thing as Hell, but that Hell was a conceptual construct which served a purpose at an historical phase of human society's development. He did believe in an Afterlife and a Spiritual World in which Hell existed in many regards(practically eternal), but that it was only as eternal as the Soul inhabiting it needed it to be in order to learn something that the Soul needed to learn. In other words, Swedenborg believed that people are only condemned to suffering in the Afterlife by their own essential natures, not by some external, vidictive deity who wants to deny them entry to Heaven the way a bouncer at a Hollywood night club keeps out the riff-raff because they are not well-dressed or rich enough.

Sorry for the digression. Maybe I should have PM'd SP. Back to SF.

There was a telling scene in Prometheus when the Captain of the Engineer's vessel tenderly regards the androd David for a moment, then rips off his head and kills Wyland with it (demonstrating some reslute anger in that action). Clearly the presence of the android (and the fact that it could speak his language) both impressed the Captain and p*ssed him off mightily.

[sneakypete]

Galileo, van Leeuwenhoek, Newton, Copernicus, Bacon, and Kepler were Christians.

@Sanguine

Big deal. Everybody alive in the west back then had to claim to be Christian to be allowed to continue living.

[LateForLunch]

@Sanguine

Big deal. Everybody alive in the west back then had to claim to be Christian to be allowed to continue living.

I presume that you have some evidence of this, other than your own intuition?

Let us, pending your gracious provinder of these facts should you be so kind, look instead to the recent past, in the words of Albert Einstein, who though a self-described agnostic, was more likely simply another skeptic awaiting some form of evidence of God's existence that he could accept as valid.

He said once of his distaste for militant atheists:

"T]he fanatical atheists...are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who—in their grudge against the traditional 'opium of the people'—cannot hear the music of the spheres."[29][30] Although he did not believe in a personal God, he indicated that he would never seek to combat such belief because "such a belief seems to me preferable to the lack of any transcendental outlook."[31]

This was echoed by CG Jung, who predated Einstein and indeed may have influenced him (though he never made mention of this if true). Jung in regarding his religious/spiritual patients, friends and acquiantences his whole life, formed the opinion that people who had a spiritual dimension to their lives were often healthier physically and mentally, more-successful (self- actualized) less prone to severe, debilitating depression, less-inclined toward self -destructive vices and overall, happier people than atheists.

[sneakypete]

@LateForLunch

I presume that you have some evidence of this, other than your own intuition?

It's called "history". Look it up. Even devout Christians were murdered by the Catholic Church because they dared to leave it,and it was "Gods will they be killed".

[LateForLunch]

@LateForLunch

It's called "history". Look it up. Even devout Christians were murdered by the Catholic Church because they dared to leave it,and it was "Gods will they be killed".

You mean five centuries ago? Before the Enlightenment, I presume? In the time of the Spanish Inquisition and when Cortez conquered the Aztecs? Long before the Magna Carta or the American Revolution. Surely you've heard of the Enlightenment. No?   See, it included an enormous sea change Christian religious reform movement driven by (wait for it) a massive number of devout Christian believers unhappy with conventional religion and its plethora heinous aspects (such as the atrocities you mention). Perhaps you could look it up.

[Sanguine]

@Sanguine

Big deal. Everybody alive in the west back then had to claim to be Christian to be allowed to continue living.

Not so, Pete.  Many of them went beyond merely nominal Christianity and were men of deep faith. 

[Cripplecreek]

Not so, Pete.  Many of them went beyond merely nominal Christianity and were men of deep faith.

I was really impressed with the "Saints and Strangers" miniseries on the National Geographic channel about a year back. I fully expected the typical liberal attack showing the pilgrims as brutal thugs murdering innocent natives but it wasn't at all like that.

Instead it showed the near starving Pilgrims raiding an  indian cache which naturally led to tensions. People on both sides tried to defuse the situation just as people on both sides simply wanted to kill the others. Once the colony got through that first brutal winter (with the help of the natives) a lively cultural exchange took place. Some pilgrims went to live with and learn from the indians and many indian children were sent to live with and learn with the colonists. It was beneficial and all involved knew it.

http://www.saintsandstrangers.com/

[LateForLunch]

I was really impressed with the "Saints and Strangers" miniseries on the National Geographic channel about a year back. I fully expected the typical liberal attack showing the pilgrims as brutal thugs murdering innocent natives but it wasn't at all like that.

Instead it showed the near starving Pilgrims raiding an  indian cache which naturally led to tensions. People on both sides tried to defuse the situation just as people on both sides simply wanted to kill the others. Once the colony got through that first brutal winter (with the help of the natives) a lively cultural exchange took place. Some pilgrims went to live with and learn from the indians and many indian children were sent to live with and learn with the colonists. It was beneficial and all involved knew it.

http://www.saintsandstrangers.com/

That sounds more realistic than the usual leftist narrative about evil Caucasians. There is also some evidence that the mysterious disappearance of the Roanoke Colony (where the cryptic word "Croatoan" was the only remainder) was really a case of absorption of survivors of either a native attack by renegades (or other natives) on the colony or decimation by disease / starvation. To survive they had to join the tribe because their community ceased to exist and they couldn't wait for help from over seas. After that they either died out or their identities became entirely subsumed by the tribe so if they had children, they may never have known "who" their parents were.   

[Smokin Joe]

That sounds more realistic than the usual leftist narrative about evil Caucasians. There is also some evidence that the mysterious disappearance of the Roanoke Colony (where the cryptic word "Croatoan" was the only remainder) was really a case of absorption of survivors of either a native attack by renegades (or other natives) on the colony or decimation by disease / starvation. To survive they had to join the tribe because their community ceased to exist and they couldn't wait for help from over seas. After that they either died out or their identities became entirely subsumed by the tribe so if they had children, they may never have known "who" their parents were.

That would be an interesting DNA trace, if possible, if markers from the colonists showed up in descendants of the tribe, provided any remain.

[Joe Wooten]

Galileo, van Leeuwenhoek, Newton, Copernicus, Bacon, and Kepler were Christians.

Isaac Newton was quite a pious Christian too.

[sneakypete]

Not so, Pete.  Many of them went beyond merely nominal Christianity and were men of deep faith.

@Sanguine

That's true. Just because something is required doesn't mean there aren't multitudes of people glad to sign on voluntarily. I have no problem at all with that,even if I do like to poke them with a stick occasionally. What I do have trouble with is being FORCED by law or even society to sign up for something you are opposed to for whatever reason. If it's all that great,people shouldn't have to be forced to be followers.

[sneakypete]

That would be an interesting DNA trace, if possible, if markers from the colonists showed up in descendants of the tribe, provided any remain.

@LateForLunch @Smokin Joe

The alleged tribe that call themselves the Lumbee Indians in central NC try to claim refugees from the Roanoke Island settlers settled and mixed with them,but I'm still waiting to hear them splain how the settlers got there on foot 400 years ago without being killed by wild animals or other Indian tribes (remember,more than half of them were women and children),or where the "black" came from in their genetic makup. The Roanoke Island people were snowflakes from England.

The truth is the "Lumbees" are the offspring of escaped slaves who want the no taxes and all the free stuff from the government that comes with being recognized as a Native American peoples. One big thing they wanted back when they really started pushing this stuff was the "no draft" status. The VN war and the draft were hot back then.

[bigheadfred]

Be your own apocalypse. Right, @sneakypete?

[Sanguine]

@Sanguine

That's true. Just because something is required doesn't mean there aren't multitudes of people glad to sign on voluntarily. I have no problem at all with that,even if I do like to poke them with a stick occasionally. What I do have trouble with is being FORCED by law or even society to sign up for something you are opposed to for whatever reason. If it's all that great,people shouldn't have to be forced to be followers.

Yes, but at least the scientists I named were great scientists and voluntary Christians.

[sneakypete]

That would be an interesting DNA trace, if possible, if markers from the colonists showed up in descendants of the tribe, provided any remain.

@Smokin Joe @LateForLunch

I read an article a year or two ago that archeologists were working an area that used to be a part of a plantation slightly inland from Roanoke Island,and given what they were digging up and the carbon dating they were getting,they are pretty sure the refugees from Roanoke Island moved there and settled,and eventually "disappeared" into the bloodlines of the native tribes.
Kinda makes sense because that plantation had a large shoreline that gave access to the ocean and the Chesapeake Bay,and if the colonists survived long enough to leave Roanoke Island,you can bet they left in little flat-bottomed sail boats. First of all,they would have to have boats to even leave the island,and secondly,traveling by boat was a hell of a lot quicker and safer than trying to travel on foot. LOTS of swamps and bogs in that area,and traveling by foot when you didn't know the terrain would have been a nightmare. I suspect there are still places in those swamps nobody has ever been known to visit. Most people are too smart to try. There has even been reports over the years of crocodiles and panthers being in those swamps,never mind every kind of poisonous snake in North America in abundance. Especially cottonmouth moccasins,who are VERY aggressive. They will climb right in the boat with you if you're not careful.

Wish I remembered who published that article and what county the old plantation was located,but I can't.

Update: I'm betting anyone interested can find that article and more on the Lost Colony by going to the archives of the NC State Government. Or maybe even by doing a search using Roanoke Island on PBS.

[Sanguine]

@Smokin Joe @LateForLunch

I read an article a year or two ago that archeologists were working an area that used to be a part of a plantation slightly inland from Roanoke Island,and given what they were digging up and the carbon dating they were getting,they are pretty sure the refugees from Roanoke Island moved there and settled,and eventually "disappeared" into the bloodlines of the native tribes.
Kinda makes sense because that plantation had a large shoreline that gave access to the ocean and the Chesapeake Bay,and if the colonists survived long enough to leave Roanoke Island,you can bet they left in little flat-bottomed sail boats. First of all,they would have to have boats to even leave the island,and secondly,traveling by boat was a hell of a lot quicker and safer than trying to travel on foot. LOTS of swamps and bogs in that area,and traveling by foot when you didn't know the terrain would have been a nightmare. I suspect there are still places in those swamps nobody has ever been known to visit. Most people are too smart to try. There has even been reports over the years of crocodiles and panthers being in those swamps,never mind every kind of poisonous snake in North America in abundance. Especially cottonmouth moccasins,who are VERY aggressive. They will climb right in the boat with you if you're not careful.

Wish I remembered who published that article and what county the old plantation was located,but I can't.

Update: I'm betting anyone interested can find that article and more on the Lost Colony by going to the archives of the NC State Government. Or maybe even by doing a search using Roanoke Island on PBS.

There are also some recent documentaries on YouTube.

[sneakypete]

Yes, but at least the scientists I named were great scientists and voluntary Christians.

@Sanguine

"voluntary Christians" is just speculation on your part. Some may have been,and others played the game to avoid being burned alive at the stake,and/or to keep the money and social positions they had. Right up to the 1800's people were still being taught in schools to begin letters with the day,month,and "the year of our Lord".
You either did that or the best you could hope for was to be shunned by all your neighbors and even relatives,which meant you were shut off from normal commerce and opportunities.

[Sanguine]

@Sanguine

"voluntary Christians" is just speculation on your part. Some may have been,and others played the game to avoid being burned alive at the stake,and/or to keep the money and social positions they had. Right up to the 1800's people were still being taught in schools to begin letters with the day,month,and "the year of our Lord".
You either did that or the best you could hope for was to be shunned by all your neighbors and even relatives,which meant you were shut off from normal commerce and opportunities.

No, these were men of professed faith, which they didn't have to do.  All they had to do is go to church fairly regularly and don't discuss religion.  They went well beyond that.

[bigheadfred]

Just finished up the Journeys of the Catechist trilogy by Alan Dean Foster. I liked it, but had the feeling I was reading something by Piers Anthony.

[bigheadfred]

Voluntary Christian.

The Catholic Church, which was very powerful and influential in Galileo's day, strongly supported the theory of a geocentric, or Earth-centered, universe. After Galileo began publishing papers about his astronomy discoveries and his belief in a heliocentric, or Sun-centered, Universe, he was called to Rome to answer charges brought against him by the Inquisition (the legal body of the Catholic Church). Early in 1616, Galileo was accused of being a heretic, a person who opposed Church teachings. Heresy was a crime for which people were sometimes sentenced to death. Galileo was cleared of charges of heresy, but was told that he should no longer publicly state his belief that Earth moved around the Sun. Galileo continued his study of astronomy and became more and more convinced that all planets revolved around the Sun. In 1632, he published a book that stated, among other things, that the heliocentric theory of Copernicus was correct. Galileo was once again called before the Inquisition and this time was found guilty of heresy. Galileo was sentenced to life imprisonment in 1633. Because of his age and poor health, he was allowed to serve his imprisonment under house arrest. Galileo died on January 8, 1642.

[Smokin Joe]

@LateForLunch @Smokin Joe

The alleged tribe that call themselves the Lumbee Indians in central NC try to claim refugees from the Roanoke Island settlers settled and mixed with them,but I'm still waiting to hear them splain how the settlers got there on foot 400 years ago without being killed by wild animals or other Indian tribes (remember,more than half of them were women and children),or where the "black" came from in their genetic makup. The Roanoke Island people were snowflakes from England.

The truth is the "Lumbees" are the offspring of escaped slaves who want the no taxes and all the free stuff from the government that comes with being recognized as a Native American peoples. One big thing they wanted back when they really started pushing this stuff was the "no draft" status. The VN war and the draft were hot back then.

Well, the presence or absence of those genetic markers might indicate whether or not those claims were true. People from England in the late 1500s were a very different breed of 'snowflake" from the modern variety. They were used to skinning their own game by the time they'd been in the colony very long (wimmen's work!), and cooking over a fire, even from England. Any time surviving in the colonies and they had picked up some skills, unlike the more gentrified twits in Jamestown who had to be tuned up a mite on their newfound status as laborers. Keep in mind that while some English had servants, they did not have slaves, and servants counted among the colonists, too. It would not be like running off into the bush with a bunch of college kids today or video game mavens.
Other tribes may have absorbed those colonists as captives eventually and eventually accepted them, or they may have been taken and simply killed later if they did not make the grade. Tribal admission wasn't granted lightly, but could be gained by proving their worth. Any travel out of the area done surreptitiously would best be done by water, and would require skills. Survivors who did as they were told might make a significant journey under such circumstances, but it's always a crapshoot in someone else's back yard. Still settlers made it across thousands of miles of plains later on, and they were no less tinhorns.
Either way, it is possible the genetics could settle many of the assertions or arguments, or refute them, and there is always a chance the results would be inconclusive. For those with nothing to gain, but an appropriated heritage to lose, there might be little incentive to participate.

[Smokin Joe]

@Smokin Joe @LateForLunch

I read an article a year or two ago that archeologists were working an area that used to be a part of a plantation slightly inland from Roanoke Island,and given what they were digging up and the carbon dating they were getting,they are pretty sure the refugees from Roanoke Island moved there and settled,and eventually "disappeared" into the bloodlines of the native tribes.
Kinda makes sense because that plantation had a large shoreline that gave access to the ocean and the Chesapeake Bay,and if the colonists survived long enough to leave Roanoke Island,you can bet they left in little flat-bottomed sail boats. First of all,they would have to have boats to even leave the island,and secondly,traveling by boat was a hell of a lot quicker and safer than trying to travel on foot. LOTS of swamps and bogs in that area,and traveling by foot when you didn't know the terrain would have been a nightmare. I suspect there are still places in those swamps nobody has ever been known to visit. Most people are too smart to try. There has even been reports over the years of crocodiles and panthers being in those swamps,never mind every kind of poisonous snake in North America in abundance. Especially cottonmouth moccasins,who are VERY aggressive. They will climb right in the boat with you if you're not careful.

Wish I remembered who published that article and what county the old plantation was located,but I can't.

Update: I'm betting anyone interested can find that article and more on the Lost Colony by going to the archives of the NC State Government. Or maybe even by doing a search using Roanoke Island on PBS.

I'm familiar with that type of terrain, the tidewater area I grew up in has the last vestiges of the Great Dismal Swamp at its headwaters (Zekiah Swamp), and tidal marshes can be very tricky travel. A flat bottomed skiff with either a centerboard or sideboards can be sailed in the open water; row, scull, or pole it in the shallows. Those areas are teeming with food, if you know what to look for. Centuries later, we just used jon boats, rowed in the shallows, and used an outboard in open water. If you were alone, you sat in the middle and steered with a pipe to get the boat planing and could get 15-20 knots out of a 5 hp motor that way. Sailing a skiff is a lot slower, especially if you have to tack against the wind.

First snake I ever killed, I was just a wee sprout cutting weeds done the shore with a swingknife, and it came after me from the water. I killed it because it kept coming after me. It was indeed a moccasin, and had come over from Virginia on the tide. We did not have any of those, so I was surprised by the way it acted, but even more so by my Dad's reaction to my having killed it. The first thing he asked was if it had bitten me, and I told him no, and that I would have left it be but it kept coming after me. A couple years later I found out just what that she-snake with a belly full of young-uns might have meant for the area.
It was years later before I had the need to kill another.
It is a tricky environment for those who do not know its ways, and there are places you can step into and disappear. Only carrying my shotgun at port arms saved me from one of those while hunting--the barrel and stock caught on opposite sides of the hole, but I never touched bottom. I used the gun to pull myself out. It looked the same as the rest of the marsh grass. After that, I pretty much kept to game trails.

I'll see what I can track down and turn you on to whatever links I find.

[sneakypete]

@Smokin Joe

Any travel out of the area done surreptitiously would best be done by water, and would require skills. Survivors who did as they were told might make a significant journey under such circumstances, but it's always a crapshoot in someone else's back yard. Still settlers made it across thousands of miles of plains later on, and they were no less tinhorns.
 

Joe,look at a map of coastal NC and Va,paying close attention to the massive swamp areas. Crossing the plains was child's play compared to crossing swampland. There are swampy areas around there that still haven't been explored. There are roads and bridges now,but back then you went by boat or you didn't go.

[Smokin Joe]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roanoke_Colony
@sneakypete
Here are a few:

https://roanokeisland.net/history/

http://observer.com/2017/04/gold-ring-revives-lost-colony-roanoke-mystery/

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/roanoke-colony-deserted (thin gruel)

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/mystery-roanoke-endures-yet-another-cruel-twist-180962837/ Interesting

http://www.ancient-origins.net/unexplained-phenomena/mysterious-lost-colony-roanoke-island-020289  (looks good) Lumbee in Robeson County. multiple links to more:

 

anilbalan.com, 2011. The Croatoan Mystery. [Online]
Available at: http://anilbalan.com/2011/10/17/the-croatoan-mystery/

chickamaugacherokee.org, 2015. The Croatan Indians. [Online]
Available at: http://chickamaugacherokee.org/croatan/

Childs, T. M., 2013. The Dare Stones. [Online]
Available at: http://ncpedia.org/dare-stones

Evans, P. W., 2006. Croatoan Indians. [Online]
Available at: http://ncpedia.org/croatoan-indians

roanokeisland.net, 2015. Roanoke Island History. [Online]
Available at: http://roanokeisland.net/history

Stilling, G. E. S., 2015. Lumbee Indians. [Online]
Available at: http://ncpedia.org/lumbee/origins

The Lost Colony Center for Science and Research, 2007. Lost Colony DNA Project. [Online]
Available at: http://www.lost-colony.com/DNAproj.html

http://theshadowlands.net/roanoke.htm

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/12/131208-roanoke-lost-colony-discovery-history-raleigh/

http://www.firstcolonyfoundation.org/

https://www.nps.gov/fora/learn/news/first-colony-foundation-archaeologists-and-nps-conclude-successful-dig.htm

Everything we wanted to know they still haven't figured out!

[Smokin Joe]

Joe,look at a map of coastal NC and Va,paying close attention to the massive swamp areas. Crossing the plains was child's play compared to crossing swampland. There are swampy areas around there that still haven't been explored. There are roads and bridges now,but back then you went by boat or you didn't go.

When we were kids (in the Southern MD tidewater), we either walked, rode our bikes on known roads and trails, or took the boat. The boat was the most direct, weather permitting, and allowed us access to places you just could not go otherwise. I hunted in marshes, hunted ducks, killed my first three deer on a marsh (where they were more yellow than the reddish brown of the ones back in the woods--they blended in better with the marsh grasses that way.) Yes, they can be treacherous for people who didn't grow up there, and would be for anyone in places even today.  I believe there are places in there where no one living has been, and some where maybe no one has tread since the water came up (after the ice age). At one time, the flat parts of the coastal plains were uplands, the tidewater estuaries were river valleys,  and the beach was far to the east out on the continental shelf.

The plains seem easy (mainly because the roads go through the flattest parts), and in some places they are, but out this way shortgrass prairie can drop off a couple hundred feet in a step or two in the badlands and breaks--at least in daylight, you can see that coming.

[kevindavis007]

Finally finished the first season of Babylon 5.


It was meh as I remembered, but there was a few good episodes.  Now ready for Season 2.

[kevindavis007]

#BladeRunner2049 trailer..



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCcx85zbxz4

[uglybiker]

 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbsnObtCPkg

[kevindavis007]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5Usu5kD6gI

[kevindavis007]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy9sKeCE8V0

[Ghost Bear]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5Usu5kD6gI

Yeah, that was fairly mind-blowing at the time...   

[geronl]

Am I the only one who thinks DR WHO seems to be on a mission to turn off it's audience??