Donald Trump:

[Lando Lincoln]

 

[andy58-in-nh]

"When once the forms of civility are violated, there remains little hope of return to kindness or decency."
– Samuel Johnson

"Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none."
– Benjamin Franklin

[musiclady]

I'm with you, Lando.     

[musiclady]

"When once the forms of civility are violated, there remains little hope of return to kindness or decency."
– Samuel Johnson

I hope he's wrong about that......   

[olde north church]

Just to put this into context, this political season is tame.

[aligncare]

How can regular Americans break through, then?  How can we, the majority of Americans, D and R, be heard? Support more GOP pablum? More Hillary DNC tripe? Or, do we grasp at one of the only voices who is saying ENOUGH!

Decades go by and nothing changes. So, some of us are saying ENOUGH.

Cruz, Carson, Trump, Fiorina 2016. Deal with it.

[andy58-in-nh]

How can regular Americans break through, then?  How can we, the majority of Americans, D and R, be heard? Support more GOP pablum? More Hillary DNC tripe? Or, do we grasp at one of the only voices who is saying ENOUGH!

Decades go by and nothing changes. So, some of us are saying ENOUGH.

Cruz, Carson, Trump, Fiorina 2016. Deal with it.

I think you're right.

It is entirely understandable to be angry with the American political class, whose members of both parties have gotten us into the mess we are in, or at the very least have shown no interest in getting us out as long as they continue to profit. That is why the perceived "outsiders" are leading in the polls to date.

But let us endeavor not to be quite so angry with each other.   

[Lando Lincoln]

How can regular Americans break through, then?  How can we, the majority of Americans, D and R, be heard? Support more GOP pablum? More Hillary DNC tripe? Or, do we grasp at one of the only voices who is saying ENOUGH!

Decades go by and nothing changes. So, some of us are saying ENOUGH.

Cruz, Carson, Trump, Fiorina 2016. Deal with it.

I understand your point clearly, ac. I just can't understand the inability of some to discuss it. The attendant juvenile pettiness that arrives is astonishing (not you, btw).  And then there is the sometimes psychotic stalking tendencies - I'm not sure they know they are doing it. They proffer nothing of value, nothing new. Just aspersions.

Meanwhile, myst is going crazy. This is not an "anything goes" playground as some might think.

Through it all ac, whether you and I agree or don't agree, you are among the best. I just wish others could understand that.

[aligncare]

I think you're right.

It is entirely understandable to be angry with the American political class, whose members of both parties have gotten us into the mess we are in, or at the very least have shown no interest in getting us out as long as they continue to profit. That is why the perceived "outsiders" are leading in the polls to date.

But let us endeavor not to be quite so angry with each other.   

Agreed.

A small caveat, though. You can't make a sumptuous omelette without breaking some eggs. Just my inept way of saying change is unavoidably messy.

[EdinVA]

How can regular Americans break through, then?  How can we, the majority of Americans, D and R, be heard? Support more GOP pablum? More Hillary DNC tripe? Or, do we grasp at one of the only voices who is saying ENOUGH!

Decades go by and nothing changes. So, some of us are saying ENOUGH.

Cruz, Carson, Trump, Fiorina 2016. Deal with it.

There are not enough voices saying ENOUGH.  The two main sides (left and right) have effectively eliminated the middle. and both sides are totally unwilling to meet in the middle for fear of "this will be the first step of many", i.e. gun control and abortion for example.  That is what I think obama is all about.  First steps to be followed by many many more.  It does not matter if obamacare, executive orders or other actions overturned,  Obama has broken the seal and the legislative flood gates will open.

I understand the dislike/distrust/etc of Trump but we gotta have a bull in the WH to undo this crap and start moving in the right direction.  I fear it may be our last shot...

[Scottftlc]

What we are seeing is the result of complete outsiders threatening the political establishment.  Extreme wealth and power accompany being in that establishment - unimaginable, monstrous wealth. I know that's "always been the case", but in truth never like it is today. I often use the term fascism - partly for shock value - but in a fascist political/economic system, wealth gets very highly concentrated within the political establishment, so I try to use it to make that point.   But I digress, a little anyway, when THAT kind of political establishment is threatened, that much wealth - futures - threatened, the vitriol from those who think they have something to lose becomes extreme.

[Sanguine]

I think you're right.

It is entirely understandable to be angry with the American political class, whose members of both parties have gotten us into the mess we are in, or at the very least have shown no interest in getting us out as long as they continue to profit. That is why the perceived "outsiders" are leading in the polls to date.

But let us endeavor not to be quite so angry with each other.   

Andy, very well said.  But, I disagree on a couple of points:

1. the "American political class", while taking the lead on getting us into this mess, have been actively aided and abetted and elected by We the People.  We have to own up to our participation in the descent and to our own weaknesses that have lead us there.  Soul searching is always painful and requires some destruction of illusions to get to the other side.

2. if now is not the time to get angry, then when?

[Godzilla]

What we are seeing is the result of complete outsiders threatening the political establishment.  Extreme wealth and power accompany being in that establishment - unimaginable, monstrous wealth. I know that's "always been the case", but in truth never like it is today. I often use the term fascism - partly for shock value - but in a fascist political/economic system, wealth gets very highly concentrated within the political establishment, so I try to use it to make that point.   But I digress, a little anyway, when THAT kind of political establishment is threatened, that much wealth - futures - threatened, the vitriol from those who think they have something to lose becomes extreme.

I agree.  My disagreement is in supporting a paragon of that crony capitalist way as the one who'll fix it.

I don't see any candidate that will.  Rubio will probably do the least harm, though.

[bkepley]

I agree.  My disagreement is in supporting a paragon of that crony capitalist way as the one who'll fix it.

I don't see any candidate that will.  Rubio will probably do the least harm, though.

People are going to hate this cuz the guy often goes too far but the best one to change things in my opinion is Rand Paul.

[andy58-in-nh]

Andy, very well said.  But, I disagree on a couple of points:

1. the "American political class", while taking the lead on getting us into this mess, have been actively aided and abetted and elected by We the People.  We have to own up to our participation in the descent and to our own weaknesses that have lead us there.  Soul searching is always painful and requires some destruction of illusions to get to the other side.

2. if now is not the time to get angry, then when?

1. I have no disagreement with the basic point you've made. We, the People have often been complicit in empowering the politicians who as a class have enriched themselves, and made dependents of too many of us. But essential questions remain: what is the proper response for "the people" to make - and toward what end? What potential leaders and which of their policies are most likely to effect the changes that we may agree are necessary?

2. If you are angry about what is happening to our country, as many of us here assembled are, then I would reiterate my original position that such anger ought to be directed toward those most directly responsible for such a state of affairs, and that most likely does not include anyone reading these words.

3. Now, I will go back to watching the Futility Bowl currently being pursued by Buffalo and Tennessee, while I pass the time waiting for New England vs. Dallas.

[flowers]

ping

[musiclady]

1. I have no disagreement with the basic point you've made. We, the People have often been complicit in empowering the politicians who as a class have enriched themselves, and made dependents of too many of us. But essential questions remain: what is the proper response for "the people" to make - and toward what end? What potential leaders and which of their policies are most likely to effect the changes that we may agree are necessary?

2. If you are angry about what is happening to our country, as many of us here assembled are, then I would reiterate my original position that such anger ought to be directed toward those most directly responsible for such a state of affairs, and that most likely does not include anyone reading these words.

3. Now, I will go back to watching the Futility Bowl currently being pursued by Buffalo and Tennessee, while I pass the time waiting for New England vs. Dallas.

Good post.

(But you want real 'futility?'..... try being a Browns' fan for a season...  )

[Lando Lincoln]

Good post.

(But you want real 'futility?'..... try being a Browns' fan for a season...  )

Oh my... No football fan has suffered like a Browns' fan. The Drive. The Fumble. John Elway. Earnest Byner. The midnight move to Baltimore. Current ineptitude. House of Sadness, indeed.

[musiclady]

Oh my... No football fan has suffered like a Browns' fan. The Drive. The Fumble. John Elway. Earnest Byner. The midnight move to Baltimore. Current ineptitude. House of Sadness, indeed.

Indeed. Especially for those of us who grew up watching Jimmy Brown on our little black and white Philcos......   

[Sanguine]

Good post.

(But you want real 'futility?'..... try being a Browns' fan for a season...  )

I get it.  I'm a Dallas fan.

[andy58-in-nh]

Good post.

(But you want real 'futility?'..... try being a Browns' fan for a season...  )

I understand entirely. My father-in-law is a long-suffering Browns' fan. I myself lived in Cleveland from 1980-3, and attended a few games at the old Mistake-On-The-Lake stadium: 80,000 people witnessing a new horror, eight times a year. Man, when Johnny Manziel is your only hope.... whew... Okay, I'll admit it -we in New England are utterly spoiled by Brady and the Pats, 4 Super Bowls in 10 years... but we went through many long years of failure, too.

[bkepley]

I understand entirely. My father-in-law is a long-suffering Browns' fan. I myself lived in Cleveland from 1980-3, and attended a few games at the old Mistake-On-The-Lake stadium: 80,000 people witnessing a new horror, eight times a year. Man, when Johnny Manziel is your only hope.... whew... Okay, I'll admit it -we in New England are utterly spoiled by Brady and the Pats, 4 Super Bowls in 10 years... but we went through many long years of failure, too.

The Browns never learned how to cheat. ;)

[musiclady]

I understand entirely. My father-in-law is a long-suffering Browns' fan. I myself lived in Cleveland from 1980-3, and attended a few games at the old Mistake-On-The-Lake stadium: 80,000 people witnessing a new horror, eight times a year. Man, when Johnny Manziel is your only hope.... whew... Okay, I'll admit it -we in New England are utterly spoiled by Brady and the Pats, 4 Super Bowls in 10 years... but we went through many long years of failure, too.

Actually (and fortunately) Manziel's on the sidelines and Josh McCown is looking pretty good today.  They won't win, of course, but at least it's not embarrassing....

btw, is this thread about Trump??  Sorry for the diversion. 

[musiclady]

The Browns never learned how to cheat. ;)

Preach it!   

[andy58-in-nh]

The Browns never learned how to cheat. ;)

But sadly, Roger Goodell did.