Author Topic: Jordan falls short of 217 votes; minority leader Jeffries gets 212 votes to Jordan’s 200  (Read 12769 times)

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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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We, the people are done with the GOP wing of the Uniparty. 

You are no more "the People" then is anyone else.

You are one person, and speak only for yourself unless someone on here specifically adopts your opinion. Otherwise, nobody chose you to represent them or their views.

You are not "the People." You are a person, and should quit pretending that you represent the rest of us.  Nobody elected you to anything.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2023, 07:30:29 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Free Vulcan

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The double standard is all on the part of Gaetz and company, in particular the ones who rejected Scalise, who was after all, the preferred nominee of the party.

There is no two ways about it.  The spoilt children here are Gaetz, Jordan, and the other self-proclaimed "conservatives", and they have no cause to complain when their own stupid childish tricks are used against them. 

Maybe, just for once, they should learn how to persuade, instead of going on crusades where they're the only true believers and think they have the right to bludgeon everyone else into doing what they want.  That only works when one has an outright majority, and that is a long, long way away from the current state of affairs.

Except that the Establishment hacks have been ruling by minority for decades with the 'Gang of X' tactics, and now are pissy it was used against them, but are trying to justify doing it back because 'Gaetz did it first'.

Scalise was 'preferred' candidate in the caucus 113-99, hardly a landslide. Certainly not a mandate. Which doesn't matter anyway because it's a floor nomination, and as was said members are free to vote for who they choose, including Scalise, and they didn't.

Gaetz didn't bludgeon or strong arm, he made a deal, and McCarthy broke it. Meanwhile the Establishment hacks were willing to savage Gaetz for it yet now refuse to make any deal, except with the Rats. Bottom line is they aren't going to play ball till they get their way. Who's the problem here?
The Republic is lost.

Offline Free Vulcan

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If you fail to see the difference, then why are you complaining? You cheered on Gaetz when he did it, so you have no principled basis on which to condemn those who are doing it now.

I personally do see a difference, though.  When there was an open vote in conference for everybody to vote for who they wanted as Speaker back in December, McCarthy got 188 votes to just 31 for Andy Biggs.  McCarthy was the clear, freely chosen majority choice.  And then, after McCarthy was removed, Scalise won the head-to-head vote against Jordan.

Jordan, in contrast, only won a majority after the same dissenters refused to vote for either McCarthy or Scalise, making their election by the full House of Representatives impossible. It was only by knocking the top two candidates off the ballot that Jordan managed to get a majority.

So the difference I see is that Gaetz & Co. opposed the first place guy, and the current dissenters are opposing the third place guy.

And Jim Jordan got 200 votes, so by your definiton he was in the clear.

Conference votes mean nothing, the only vote that matters is on the floor.

Fact is Gaetz made deals, the current Establishment hack holdouts refuse to deal with anyone but the Rats.
The Republic is lost.

Offline libertybele

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You are no more "the People" then is anyone else.

You are one person, and speak only for yourself unless someone on here specifically adopts your opinion. Otherwise, nobody chose you to represent them or their views.

You are not "the People." You are a person, and should quit pretending that you represent the rest of us.  Nobody elected you to anything.

I know that this wasn't directed towards me, but I view "We the People" collectively as those in this country who are citizens of the United States of America with certain rights under the Constitution. 

AS you well know, the preamble of the Constitution states "We the People" of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Prosperity, do ordain and establish this Constitution of the United States of America."

We are supposed to be a Government of the people, by the people, for the people.  The government/politicians work for us, not the other way around.  The seem to forget that they are in an elected position; not an authoritarian position and should be held responsible and accountable.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2023, 07:08:49 pm by libertybele »
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Except that the Establishment hacks have been ruling by minority for decades with the 'Gang of X' tactics, and now are pissy it was used against them, but are trying to justify doing it back because 'Gaetz did it first'.

Didn't you already admit that there has never been a conservative who had a majority within the caucus, but was blocked by the moderates?  So then what was the incident prior to Gaetz?

Quote
Scalise was 'preferred' candidate in the caucus 113-99, hardly a landslide. Certainly not a mandate. Which doesn't matter anyway because it's a floor nomination, and as was said members are free to vote for who they choose, including Scalise, and they didn't.

Which of course applies equally to those who just voted against and sank Jordan's nomination.

Quote
Gaetz didn't bludgeon or strong arm, he made a deal, and McCarthy broke it.

Refusing to vote for the overwhelming caucus favorite, causing 14 failed floor votes for Speaker, and threatening not to sit a Speaker at all, certainly falls within my definition of bludgeoning or strong arming.  Your mileage may vary.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2023, 07:10:34 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Hoodat

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Gaetz didn't bludgeon or strong arm, he made a deal, and McCarthy broke it. Meanwhile the Establishment hacks were willing to savage Gaetz for it yet now refuse to make any deal, except with the Rats. Bottom line is they aren't going to play ball till they get their way. Who's the problem here?

Correctamundo.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline libertybele

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Jordan is never going to get the votes needed.  No one else seems to be stepping up to the plate...so...what about making the temporary Speaker the permanent Speaker??

Otherwise the government shutdown will lay heavily in the laps of the GOP.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2023, 07:17:02 pm by libertybele »
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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I know that this wasn't directed towards me, but I view "We the People" collectively as those in this country who are citizens of the United States of America with certain rights under the Constitution. 

AS you well know, the preamble of the Constitution states "We the People" of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Prosperity, do ordain and establish this Constitution of the United States of America."

We are supposed to be a Government of the people, by the people, for the people.  The government/politicians work for us, not the other way around.  The seem to forget that they are in an elected position; not an authoritarian position and should be held responsible and accountable.

My point was that no particular political position or view has any more right to claim the mandate of being representative of "We the people" than any other.

When the individual representatives we as citizens collectively send to Washington vote in ways that some of us don't like, that does not mean they are ignoring the wishes of "We the People.". It more than likely means that they are representing the views of other citizens with whom we happen to disagree.


Offline mystery-ak

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Offline libertybele

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My point was that no particular political position or view has any more right to claim the mandate of being representative of "We the people" than any other.

When the individual representatives we as citizens collectively send to Washington vote in ways that some of us don't like, that does not mean they are ignoring the wishes of "We the People.". It more than likely means that they are representing the views of other citizens with whom we happen to disagree.

Regardless of appeasing constituents the Constitution needs to be adhered to -- "We the People" should demand that.  Sidestepping the Constitution is why we have the problems in DC that we are facing.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline libertybele

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https://twitter.com/JoeyMannarinoUS/status/1715445189106364911

Yay!!!  Go Byron. So far he has proven to be a conservative.  I hope he gets the votes. I would love to see him as Speaker.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Jordan is never going to get the votes needed.  No one else seems to be stepping up to the plate...so...what about making the temporary Speaker the permanent Speaker??

Otherwise the government shutdown will lay heavily in the laps of the GOP.

I'm fine with McHenry or any compromise candidate.  Now that McCarthy, Scalise, and Jordan are all off the table, that may pull some of the emotion out of the equation so they'll all be able to rally around someone and get on with business.

I do think the importance of the speaker has been massively overestimated, because in the end, the speaker is going to be restricted by the general consensus that exists in the GOP conference.  Changing speakers was never going to make the moderates vote more conservatively on legislation, and it wasn't going to make the conservatives vote more moderately.   That's why even Jordan was talking about continuing resolutions if he made Speaker.

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Regardless of appeasing constituents the Constitution needs to be adhered to -- "We the People" should demand that.  Sidestepping the Constitution is why we have the problems in DC that we are facing.

Just to be clear, there is nothing in the Constitution that demands 12 separate appropriations bills. That particular aspiration didn't even exist until the 1970s.

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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I do find it amazing that some of the strongest supporters of this Speaker fight on the grounds of returning to fiscal restraint also happen to be strong supporters of Donald Trump, who affirmatively mocked those who advocated fiscal restraint.

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Offline mystery-ak

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Quote
Chad Pergram
@ChadPergram
·
1h
2) In fact, some members have hinted they could leave for the weekend as a protest if they either stick with Jordan or force additional votes without a clear path to win.

Quote
Chad Pergram
@ChadPergram
·
1h
3) In addition, some members have expressed concern about accidentally electing House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY) as Speaker if there are the right number of absences and the GOP fails to provide a certain number of votes to block him.

Quote
Chad Pergram
@ChadPergram
·
1h
4) That could happen if there’s an attendance issue
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Offline roamer_1

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The double standard is all on the part of Gaetz and company, in particular the ones who rejected Scalise, who was after all, the preferred nominee of the party.


Well that's sorta bullcrap. Scalise and Jordan are both favored sons, both uniters, both considered even-handed.

Granted, Scalise, as a moderate, would probably be considered as having an upper hand, but not by much. And I am on the record here as expecting Scalise, and satisfied with that, though no doubt I would prefer Jordan.

Offline roamer_1

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Gaetz didn't bludgeon or strong arm, he made a deal, and McCarthy broke it. Meanwhile the Establishment hacks were willing to savage Gaetz for it yet now refuse to make any deal, except with the Rats. Bottom line is they aren't going to play ball till they get their way. Who's the problem here?

That's the way I see it too.

Offline mystery-ak

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 *bouche*

Marjorie Taylor Greene Press Release (Parody)
@MTGrepp
·
1h
Breaking 🚨🚨

Jim Jordan is stepping out of the Speaker race

It might be time to abandon the Republican Party and officially start the MAGA party

Are you with me ?
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Offline mystery-ak

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The GOP as configured will never hold the majority again.  They have awakened their constituents.

I agree...they cannot lead.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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The only reason the holdouts existed in the first place was because they refused to follow conference protocol of supporting the person nominated by a majority of the Republican conference.

The unrealistic promises extracted by the holdouts shouldn't have had to be made in the first place.

No, McCarthy is responsible because he broke almost every promise he made, several of which were within his power to honor.

I am sick of people lying as he did, just to get the votes for Speaker.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Benny Johnson
@bennyjohnson

🚨BREAKING: Byron Donalds to announce candidacy for House Speaker

Benny Johnson
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Other names in the mix:
-Tom Emmer
-Kevin Hern
-Austin Scott
-Jack Bergman
-Mike Johnson
-Mark Green
-Roger Williams

3:51 PM · Oct 20, 2023
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

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It's a parody account. Says so right in the name. There's no Maga party.
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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No, McCarthy is responsible because he broke almost every promise he made, several of which were within his power to honor.

I am sick of people lying as he did, just to get the votes for Speaker.

210 Republicans did not believe the alleged lies warranted his removal from the Speakership.

I trust their collective judgment a lot more than I do some of the self-serving nut bags among the eight who opposed him.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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210 Republicans did not believe the alleged lies warranted his removal from the Speakership.

I trust their collective judgment a lot more than I do some of the self-serving nut bags among the eight who opposed him.

My statement was partially rhetorical, I already know what side you are on.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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