Wow, Just Wow – Presidential Candidate Mike Pence Says a Collapsing USA is Not His Concern, Supporti

[sneakypete]

Because the cities are not being run by the federal government and by all rights those cities should not be receiving federal aid of any kind except for natural disasters that occur within them. Those (city) governments should have to stand or fall on their own policy decisions.

@Bigun

Who the hell do you think you are to throw reason into this discussion?

Weeze watchin yew,boy!

[libertybele]

I hope you are wrong on this one.

I hope so too, but the GOPe will join the DEMS in trying to defeat Trump -- that's what they've done before and I don't see that changing.  IMO it is Pence who they want -- I'm not so sure who the DEMS will run.  Either way, if Pence wins or a DEM wins, the agenda will still be fulfilled.  Just my opinion.

[sneakypete]

One thing is for sure.  Trump sure did a piss poor job of choosing his VP.

@Hoodat

You actually think that Trump was the one that picked him,and not one of the political insiders that became a member oi  his camp,and an advisor?

Remember,other than contributing to (paying off) political creatures in NYC and other big cities to insure he got building permits,Trump had NO prior experience with  government,and probably  less knowledge about it than most of us have because he had paid ADVISORS to advise him on political and legal manners while he was a businessman.

[sneakypete]

It was the Deep State Uni-party establishment that made Trump pick Pence as VP that Trump is going to fight if he is President again. (please note this is sarcasm)

@kevindavis007

Yet,ironically enough,it is true.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete

Of course!  That authority belongs to the Courts, and/or Congress.  That's why Cruz and Hawley filed objections, why the objections were debated, and why they ultimately were voted upon and rejected by Congress.  That's why lawsuits were filed in the courts.  The alternative -- the VP alone makes that decision -- not only appears nowhere in the Constitution, but is fundamentally incompatible with the basic principles of checks and balances/separation of powers.  It basically gives to the Executive Branch the power to choose itself.

@Maj. Bill Martin

I ain't no lawyur,or even play one on tb,but I agree.

The idea that such a thing can be decided by one man with a personal interest in the results and there is no recourse to that decision just boggles the imagination.

[sneakypete]

It's the latter.  Trump essentially allowed the GOP Establishment to make all his picks for him.  He's the best friend the Swamp ever had.

@Hoodat

No surprise,there.

He is not a career politician.

He WAS a career businessman,and in the free market businessmen hire lawyers and other specialists to review paperwork and hiring positions for them,with the "given" being that it is every bit as much in their interest to pick the best people they can find,as it is in their bosses best interest because if their boss makes money,they make bonus money.

This is NOT true in politics,where the Golden Rule seems to be "Bleep YOU,ME first!"

[sneakypete]

In other words, relying on the Swamp.

@Hoodat

Yup,but I suspect he has learned his lesson that by now.

[sneakypete]

I hope so too, but the GOPe will join the DEMS in trying to defeat Trump -- that's what they've done before and I don't see that changing.  IMO it is Pence who they want -- I'm not so sure who the DEMS will run.  Either way, if Pence wins or a DEM wins, the agenda will still be fulfilled.  Just my opinion.

@libertybele

One that is shared by me.

I am STILL hoping Trump wins,though.

[Bigun]

@Maj. Bill Martin

I ain't no lawyur,or even play one on tb,but I agree.

The idea that such a thing can be decided by one man with a personal interest in the results and there is no recourse to that decision just boggles the imagination.

Except for the FACT that no one ever suggested that one man was going to make any decisions you might have a point @sneakypete

[sneakypete]

Except for the FACT that no one ever suggested that one man was going to make any decisions you might have a point @sneakypete

@Bigun

It seems to have been  suggested by several people on this very thread.

I didn't know for sure,so I asked.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@DB

Trump's pick,or the pick of the professional politicians that were on his team when these selections were being made?

If Trump was that beholden to the "professional politicians" on his team, then he was and is unfit for office.

The truth is that he wasn't that beholden.  Trump, as much in anyone who has held that office, understands leverage and how it shifts over time.  Once he had the delegates, there wasn't a damn thing "the Establishment" could do to him because they were stuck.   Fact is, Trump picked Pence because he liked him, and he actually was a good choice.  He wasn't flashy so he wouldn't run the risk of upstaging Trump himself.  He was loyal, and he knew Congress and had good relationships on Capitol Hill.  What wasn't there to like about him?

Trump himself loved Pence for almost the entire time he served as VP.  Literally his only complaint about Pence was that Pence didn't unilaterally stop the electoral count vote on January 6.  That's it.  And again, I'm still waiting for someone to show me something in the Constitution that gave the VP the unilateral right to reject electoral votes.

Trump was wrong to push Pence to do something for which he had no constitutional authority, and he was wrong to blast him publicly because Pence refused to do so.

[Hoodat]

@Hoodat

Yup,but I suspect he has learned his lesson that by now.

His continued support for Ronna McDaniel as GOP Chair proves he has not.

[Bigun]

@Bigun

It seems to have been  suggested by several people on this very thread.

I didn't know for sure,so I asked.

All I can tell you @sneakypete is that you have to be very careful in listening to trained professional wordsmiths (read lawyers) here or anywhere. If you aren't careful, they will have you believing up is really down etc.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Except for the FACT that no one ever suggested that one man was going to make any decisions you might have a point @sneakypete

Trump did.  I literally posted the exact tweet here, but there is plenty of other evidence on the same point.  Gohmert's lawsuit -- which Trump supported -- literally said that the Electoral Vote Act violated the 12th Amendment of the Constitution because:

( from page 12-13 of Gohmert's lawsuit) 35.   Under the Twelfth Amendment, Defendant Pence alone has the exclusive authority and sole discretion to open and permit the counting of the electoral votes for a given state, and where there are competing slates of electors, or where there is objection to any single slate of electors, to determine which electors’ votes, or whether none, shall be counted. Notably, neither the Twelfth Amendment nor the Electoral Count Act, provides any mechanism for judicial review of the Presiding Officer’s determinations.

The lawsuit then argues that the Electoral Vote Act is unconstitutional because;

(on pages 24-25) "the Electoral Vote Act directs the Defendant, Vice-President Michael Pence, in his capacity as President of the Senate and Presiding Officer over the January 6, 2021 Joint Session of Congress, to: (1) count the electoral votes for a State that have been appointed in violation of the Electors Clause; (2) limits or eliminates his exclusive authority and sole discretion Under the Twelth Amendment to determine which slates of electors for a State, or neither, may be counted...

https://electioncases.osu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Gohmert-v-Pence.pdf

I mean, you don't get any more "one man was going to make any decisions" than arguing that Pence had "exclusive authority and sole discretion" to do exactly that, and then compound that by saying that not even the court system can review his decision.  It's right there in black and white -- you can check that link and see the legally filed motion itself.

[sneakypete]

If Trump was that beholden to the "professional politicians" on his team, then he was and is unfit for office.

@Maj. Bill Martin

Seriously????

You can't POSSIBLY be THAT ignorant as to reality.

NOBODY who is not a career politician can just step into the WH and fill out his staff with reliable people because HE OR SHE HAS NO FREAKING IDEA WHO IS RELIABLE AND WHO ISN'T,BECAUSE he or she is NOT a career politician.

Businessmen/women  hire the brightest and most informed people they can find to be their staff,and these people work their asses off to meet the standards because profits are "the name of the game",and if they want to not only keep their jobs but also draw bonus money at the end of the year,they MUST perform.

Not true with politics,where the "bonus money" is often paid for NOT performing.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

All I can tell you @sneakypete is that you have to be very careful in listening to trained professional wordsmiths (read lawyers) here or anywhere. If you aren't careful, they will have you believing up is really down etc.

@sneakypete @Bigun

Don't listen to me.  Read Trump's own words in his own tweet.  Read Gohmert's lawsuit, that I've linked here.  You can google what Trump was saying about Pence and there are dozens of references of Trump saying that it was all Pence's fault, and that he could have stopped it.

And this is just such a slimy tactic, @Bigun.  Rather than actually addressing the points made -- each of which I've linked to the supporting facts -- you just retreat to "don't believe him because he's a lawyer."  That's the sum total of your actual argument.  I'd just ask people to read the actual words for themselves, and see what they say.  Google to your heart's content if that's not enough. 

Your claim that "no one ever suggested that one man was going to make any decisions" is just wildly, wildly wrong.  That's exactly what was suggested, and that's why certain folks are so mad at Pence.  Because he was the one guy they said could/should have stopped it.

[sneakypete]

All I can tell you @sneakypete is that you have to be very careful in listening to trained professional wordsmiths (read lawyers) here or anywhere. If you aren't careful, they will have you believing up is really down etc.

@Bigun

Well,it IS true that I know diddly-squat about most laws.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Maj. Bill Martin

Seriously????

You can't POSSIBLY be THAT ignorant as to reality.

NOBODY who is not a career politician can just step into the WH and fill out his staff with reliable people because HE OR SHE HAS NO FREAKING IDEA WHO IS RELIABLE AND WHO ISN'T,BECAUSE he or she is NOT a career politician.

Fill out his entire staff?  I agree - he'd need help.  But pick one guy to be his Vice-President??  I think absolutely a guy we elect as President should be a sufficiently good judge of character and have sufficient knowledge to pick that one guy.  In any case, it's not like Trump picked him and then figured out quickly that he made a mistake.  He worked with Pence for four years and loved the guy.  Literally the only criticism he had of Pence was that Pence didn't stop the counting of electoral votes on January 6, 2021.  And I'm still waiting for someone to cite to the specific language in the Constitution that gave Pence that authority.

[Bigun]

@sneakypete @Bigun

Don't listen to me.  Read Trump's own words in his own tweet.  Read Gohmert's lawsuit, that I've linked here.  You can google what Trump was saying about Pence and there are dozens of references of Trump saying that it was all Pence's fault, and that he could have stopped it.

And this is just such a slimy tactic, @Bigun.  Rather than actually addressing the points made -- each of which I've linked to the supporting facts -- you just retreat to "don't believe him because he's a lawyer."  That's the sum total of your actual argument.  I'd just ask people to read the actual words for themselves, and see what they say.  Google to your heart's content if that's not enough. 

Your claim that "no one ever suggested that one man was going to make any decisions" is just wildly, wildly wrong.  That's exactly what was suggested, and that's why certain folks are so mad at Pence.  Because he was the one guy they said could/should have stopped it.

Show me where I said that @Maj. Bill Martin.  What I said was that you must be very careful in listening to lawyers. Never said to never listen to them.

Might be that your skin is getting just a tiny bit thin.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Show me where I said that @Maj. Bill Martin.  What I said was that you must be very careful in listening to lawyers. Never said to never listen to them.

Might be that your skin is getting just a tiny bit thin.

Okay, so now that the whole "don't trust lawyers" deflection is out of the way, how about getting back to the actual substance, which was your claim that:

"Except for the FACT that no one ever suggested that one man was going to make any decisions...."

Still think that is true, even after reading what Trump said and the quotes from Gohmert's lawsuit?

[Bigun]

Okay, so now that the whole "don't trust lawyers" deflection is out of the way, how about getting back to the actual substance, which was your claim that:

Still think that is true, even after reading what Trump said and the quotes from Gohmert's lawsuit?

I am in complete agreement with what @Right_in_Virginia posted upthread.

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,505575.msg2867657.html#msg2867657

[Right_in_Virginia]

Okay, so now that the whole "don't trust lawyers" is out of the way

No, it's not.  It's front and center where it will remain.

[Bigun]

No, it's not.  It's front and center where it will remain.

Why is John Eastman currently being persecuted for doing his job?

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/23/1183844921/what-weve-learned-from-pro-trump-attorney-john-eastmans-state-bar-trial

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I am in complete agreement with what @Right_in_Virginia posted upthread.

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,505575.msg2867657.html#msg2867657

Okay, I get it.  You guys are joined at the hip.

No problem.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Okay, I get it.  You guys are joined at the hip.

And ....  ???