Wow, Just Wow – Presidential Candidate Mike Pence Says a Collapsing USA is Not His Concern, Supporti

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

To me, a dead giveaway that this is not really about money is that Tucker spends orders of magnitude less time talking about the trillions in other wasteful Biden spending, much of which promotes leftist causes.  Why doesn't he go off on any of that spending, especially since there is so massively much more of it?  Why is he so focused on the money that helps Ukraine?

Just yesterday, Biden forgave nearly 40 billion in student debt. That's more than half the amount we've actually sent to Ukraine during this entire war. Yet, Tucker has spent uncounted hours ranting against the cost of the Ukraine war, but will say virtually nothing g about this $40B.  And that's because it really isn't about the money for him.

For a lot of people, I know it's about the money.  But that's not where Tucker is coming from, and never has been.   For him, it is an affirmative desire for the Russian conquest of Ukraine to succeed.  That's the only rational explanation for why he cares so much about that spending in particular.

Maybe you're right, but in the interview I found myself agreeing with Tucker, not Pence. Pence just seemed like a 2000's era neocon, and a soulless hack. I suspect others will mostly agree with my view. Anyway Pence was always a non-starter for the nomination.

[mountaineer]

To me, a dead giveaway that this is not really about money is that Tucker spends orders of magnitude less time talking about the trillions in other wasteful Biden spending, much of which promotes leftist causes.  Why doesn't he go off on any of that spending, especially since there is so massively much more of it?  Why is he so focused on the money that helps Ukraine?

Just yesterday, Biden forgave nearly 40 billion in student debt. That's more than half the amount we've actually sent to Ukraine during this entire war. Yet, Tucker has spent uncounted hours ranting against the cost of the Ukraine war, but will say virtually nothing g about this $40B.  And that's because it really isn't about the money for him.

If he still had a top-rated hourlong show every weeknight, he probably would address these other instances of wasteful spending.

[Smokin Joe]

To me, a dead giveaway that this is not really about money is that Tucker spends orders of magnitude less time talking about the trillions in other wasteful Biden spending, much of which promotes leftist causes.  Why doesn't he go off on any of that spending, especially since there is so massively much more of it?  Why is he so focused on the money that helps Ukraine?

Just yesterday, Biden forgave nearly 40 billion in student debt. That's more than half the amount we've actually sent to Ukraine during this entire war. Yet, Tucker has spent uncounted hours ranting against the cost of the Ukraine war, but will say virtually nothing g about this $40B.  And that's because it really isn't about the money for him.

For a lot of people, I know it's about the money.  But that's not where Tucker is coming from, and never has been.   For him, it is an affirmative desire for the Russian conquest of Ukraine to succeed.  That's the only rational explanation for why he cares so much about that spending in particular.

Seems to me SCOTUS already ruled Biden can't 'forgive' student debt. It is not in the POTUS wheelhouse to void contracts between individual borrowers and lending institutions, even if that institution was the Untied States.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

What an ignorant comment.

It's "ignorant" to accuse Tucker of being pro-Russia?  Okay, then:

1) Why does he spend so much time on the cost of Ukraine compared to far larger Democrat spending plans that advance a leftist agenda here in the US?

2). Why has Tucker repeatedly touted Colonel Douglas MacGregor on his show, going so far as to address him as "One of the very few people we trust and you've been honest since the very beginning", when the unambiguous evidence is that MacGregor's massively pro-Russian predictions have been wildly wrong since the beginning of that war?

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,494622.msg2799959.html#msg2799959

Don't believe me - here's Tucker in his own words, right out of his own mouth:

"Why do I care?” Mr Carlson exclaimed, “Why do I care what’s going on in the conflict between Ukraine and Russia? And I’m serious – why do I care. And why shouldn’t I root for Russia – which I am”.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/fox-news-tucker-carlson-russia-trump-impeachment-a9218496.html

So, I don't think accusing Tucker of siding with Russia in this war is "ignorant".  Seems to me to be far more likely from drawing the most logical conclusions from his statements and actions.
That raises the question of why would someone like Tucker want Russia to win, and Ukraine to lose?    He's not a communist or anything, so...why?  It's probably because there is a certain segment who believes that Ukraine is a hub of international money laundering for globalists - a pro-Soros, pro-Schwab, pro-leftist country that helps the Bidens -  and therefore is actually the "bad guy" in that war.

[kevindavis007]

Important question Why didn't Trump fix things when he was President like the cities?

[Maj. Bill Martin]

If he still had a top-rated hourlong show every weeknight, he probably would address these other instances of wasteful spending.

He didn't address them even when he did.  Not to the extent he focused on wanting to cut-off military aid to Ukraine.

[kevindavis007]

Exactly true. THe cities are not the Federal Government's purview. Trump did not send in troops, 'W' could not send in the National Guard (Katrina), for the same reason. 

They have to be requested by the local government.

Without that request, were troops to be sent in so long as the local/State governments are maintaining some semblance of 'function', that Federal incursion would be the very sort of Federal totalitarianism we eschew, whether we agree with its premise or not.

No matter what steps the Federal Government takes or has taken, the Democrat Demographics of cities run their own show, no matter how deep or smelly it gets, only constrained by the Bill of Rights and SCOTUS when applied.

The POTUS has little say in that hot mess.

But this also brings up a point made often in this forum, that the Promises get in the papers today, but delivery on those promises is seriously lagging. Recall the Migs the Poles donated to the Ukrainian cause, not released to the Ukraine, left sitting on a US airbase for optics. Today they announce billions in aid, and when the trickle down is done, I would wager much of that gets intercepted before a cartridge crosses the line. Which has brought many to the conclusion that this is a conflict being managed, and in such a way as to prolong it for the purposes of 1: increased materiel deliveries over the long term, which will ultimately result in fresh stores for NATO countries and enormous contracts for the Military Industrial Complex...and more complete devastation for Ukraine and other territory fought over, leading to lucrative opportunities for everyone from those agencies and officials, official government and NGO dispensing the funds to skim them, and enormous contracts for the actual rebuilding.

If fifty cents of those announced dollars reaches its purported destination, it will be a miracle.

In contrast, providing the materiel for a faster decisive victory in a timely fashion would shorten that money train.

In all this, Pence is correct, or at least more so than is being portrayed, but for me, his actions on 1/6, failing to call for objections to electoral votes (which was the only way to pull the maggoty mess of the swing states into the spotlight), is and remains the deal breaker.

Sorry, but Pence did the right thing on 1/6. Since it was required by the Constitution. You know that pesky document that we should be loyal too. Not the orange crybaby.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Exactly true. THe cities are not the Federal Government's purview. Trump did not send in troops, 'W' could not send in the National Guard (Katrina), for the same reason. 

They have to be requested by the local government.

I think he may have been able to use federal troops solely for the protection of federal property versus trying to enforce the laws, which is expressly prohibited by the Posse Comitatus Act.   At the barest minimum, he could have sent as many federal marshals as he wanted to protect that property.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Sorry, but Pence did the right thing on 1/6. Since it was required by the Constitution. You know that pesky document that we should be loyal too. Not the orange crybaby.

Absolutely.  There wasn't a single state that had withdrawn its slate of electors or voted to send a different slate.  The "alternative electors" were all self-appointed without any authorization from the states in question.  There wasn't a single court decision holding that some electors were invalid or shouldn't be considered, and even the three Justices Trump appointed to the Supreme Court ruled against those election claims.   Asking Pence to withhold certification without a single shred of legal authority, simply on his own determination that the electors were invalid, would have been an abrogration of his constitutional duty. 

That would have been the coup.

[libertybele]

Absolutely.  There wasn't a single state that had withdrawn its slate of electors or voted to send a different slate.  The "alternative electors" were all self-appointed without any authorization from the states in question.  There wasn't a single court decision holding that some electors were invalid or shouldn't be considered, and even the three Justices Trump appointed to the Supreme Court ruled against those election claims.   Asking Pence to withhold certification without a single shred of legal authority, simply on his own determination that the electors were invalid, would have been an abrogration of his constitutional duty. 

That would have been the coup.

Yes he certified the election but he never heard the objections from Sen. Cruz or Rep. Josh Hawley. That proceeding was conveniently interrupted by the J6 insurrectionists.  Pictures/video have shown that they were NOT affiliated with Trump -- but linked to Pence, Pelosi and others in DC.  It was pre-arranged. 

The J6 insurrection was orchestrated in order to overturn an election; obviously by both sides and an election was stolen by the DEMS. You will NEVER convince me otherwise.

Pence is evil just as Pelosi, McConnell and most of the DOJ are.

Again, I lay odds that Pence will be the GOP(e) nominee.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Yes he certified the election but he never heard the objections from Sen. Cruz or Rep. Josh Hawley. That proceeding was conveniently interrupted by the J6 insurrectionists.  Pictures/video have shown that they were NOT affiliated with Trump -- but linked to Pence, Pelosi and others in DC.  It was pre-arranged. 

The J6 insurrection was orchestrated in order to overturn an election; obviously by both sides and an election was stolen by the DEMS. You will NEVER convince me otherwise.

Pence is evil just as Pelosi, McConnell and most of the DOJ are.

Again, I lay odds that Pence will be the GOP(e) nominee.

Wouldn't have changed a thing.

Look, Pence had to have something on which to hang his hat legally.  A court decision, a state legislature sending a different slate of electors...something other than his own judgment, or the equally un-authoritative judgment of some Senators.  Because once you cross the bridge of a VP holding up the electoral vote count based on nothing than his own judgment, we are completely screwed because it would never, ever stop.

But Trump's lawyers and his allies' lawyers basically lost every case they brought on one ground or another, and that wasn't Pence's fault.  And the fact that many were dismissed on standing issues doesn't matter because that's what our system is.  Pence just couldn't say "well, I have my own opinion on how the courts would have ruled if they'd heard those cases on the merits, so I'm not going to certify the electoral count."

Guy did the only thing he could short of actions that would have justified a shooting civil war.

[kevindavis007]

Absolutely.  There wasn't a single state that had withdrawn its slate of electors or voted to send a different slate.  The "alternative electors" were all self-appointed without any authorization from the states in question.  There wasn't a single court decision holding that some electors were invalid or shouldn't be considered, and even the three Justices Trump appointed to the Supreme Court ruled against those election claims.   Asking Pence to withhold certification without a single shred of legal authority, simply on his own determination that the electors were invalid, would have been an abrogration of his constitutional duty. 

That would have been the coup.

Exactly and had the Democrats done that a lot of people want Pence to do, everyone would be screaming bloody murder!


You are right, had Pence gone through what the Trump supporters wanted him to do, it would have been a coup and we would be in the middle of a civil war right now.


So tell me, is Trump worth having Americans kill other Americans worth it? To me the answer is no!

[kevindavis007]

Yes he certified the election but he never heard the objections from Sen. Cruz or Rep. Josh Hawley. That proceeding was conveniently interrupted by the J6 insurrectionists.  Pictures/video have shown that they were NOT affiliated with Trump -- but linked to Pence, Pelosi and others in DC.  It was pre-arranged. 

The J6 insurrection was orchestrated in order to overturn an election; obviously by both sides and an election was stolen by the DEMS. You will NEVER convince me otherwise.

Pence is evil just as Pelosi, McConnell, and most of the DOJ are.

Again, I lay odds that Pence will be the GOP(e) nominee.

Who cares what Tweedledee and Tweedledumb thinks!

[Bigun]

Important question Why didn't Trump fix things when he was President like the cities?

Because the cities are not being run by the federal government and by all rights those cities should not be receiving federal aid of any kind except for natural disasters that occur within them. Those (city) governments should have to stand or fall on their own policy decisions.

[Timber Rattler]

Pence had NO Constitutional authority whatsoever to intervene in the counting and certification of electoral votes on January 6th, despite what Trump and his cheerleaders demanded.  Pence made the right, and legal, call.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Wouldn't have changed a thing.

How do you know this?

Look, Pence had to have something on which to hang his hat legally.

It was in front of him, but Pence broke existing law and ignored the objections to be raised by at least one Senator and one Representative to send the objection to the full Congress for debate.  This is all his hat needed.

Because once you cross the Bridget of a VP holding up the electoral vote count based on nothing than his own judgment,

Except this would have had nothing to do with Pence's own judgement.  Pence did substitute his judgment for law the moment he shut down debate on objections to submitted tallies and the opportunity for review and recertification from state legislatures.

we are completely screwed because it would never, ever stop.

Do you consider the new law codifying election fraud into Congressional processes a screwing?

But Trump's lawyers and his allies' lawyers basically lost every case they brought on one ground or another

This is still wrong.  As you know, but refuse to admit, no case and no evidence ever saw the light of day of a courtroom, a judge and a jury.

Guy did the only thing he could

Not if he believed we are a nation of laws and free and fair elections are a birthright of each American citizen worth protecting.

[Bigun]

Pence had NO Constitutional authority whatsoever to intervene in the counting and certification of electoral votes on January 6th, despite what Trump and his cheerleaders demanded.  Pence made the right, and legal, call.

Bovine fecal matter! 100% USDA choice grade.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Pence had NO Constitutional authority whatsoever to intervene in the counting and certification of electoral votes on January 6th, despite what Trump and his cheerleaders demanded.  Pence made the right, and legal, call.

Pence had the legal responsibility to hear objections and with the support of one Senator and one Representative to send the ojection(s) to the full Congress for debate to decide yea or nay on returning the tallies to the state legislature from whence they came for review and recertification.

Pence substituted his personal desires for the law. 

[Right_in_Virginia]

Bovine fecal matter! 100% USDA choice grade.

Ditto!

[libertybele]

Pence had the legal responsibility to hear objections and with the support of one Senator and one Representative to send the ojection(s) to the full Congress for debate to decide yea or nay on returning the tallies to the state legislature from whence they came for review and recertification.

Pence substituted his personal desires for the law.

This has been posted many times in different ways and many don't grasp or want to acknowledge that Pence did NOT do his job!!!

[libertybele]

Who cares what Tweedledee and Tweedledumb thinks!

??? Pence had a legal obligation to hear them and did NOT.  Therefore, he didn't do his job!  I care!!

[christian]

Odd how many do so much to criticize Republicans to be 'fair' and equal, and yet bend over backwards to defend/justify democrats.  How did they manage to become so fair minded-equal?
 

[Timber Rattler]

This has been posted many times in different ways and many don't grasp or want to acknowledge that Pence did NOT do his job!!!

Nonsense.

[Timber Rattler]

Pence had the legal responsibility to hear objections and with the support of one Senator and one Representative to send the ojection(s) to the full Congress for debate to decide yea or nay on returning the tallies to the state legislature from whence they came for review and recertification.

Pence substituted his personal desires for the law.

More nonsense.

[libertybele]

More nonsense.

Article II - Section 1

The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President ...

Cruz and Hawley raised objections of vote counts due to allegations and concerns of voter fraud -- they had the right to be heard and were not. Their objections were raised before Pence certified the election and he ignored them. As I pointed out before, during the time that Cruz and Hawley objected the insurrection conveniently took place, certification was delayed and their objections were never heard.  Pence did NOT do his job.  It is very doubtful that the objections and Congress voting would have made a difference, but it still should have been done.  A slim chance that it would have made a difference.

Also I believe that the insurrectionists were not comprised of Trump supporters but rather those within the ranks, including Pence and Pelosi who staged the insurrection so that no objection would be heard or even given merit.