House Speaker Vote Live 2nd Thread

[Free Vulcan]

It's literally impossible to enact the deal before electing a Speaker because you can't approve the rules and appoint committees until after the Speaker is elected.  So at that level, a certain amount of trust is required.

However, the deal is for changes to the rules and for committee appointments, which are things that happen almost immediately after the Speaker is elected. If McCarthy chose to go back on that deal after being elected Speaker, the Freedom Caucus would immediately move to vacate the chair, and that motion would pass.  So McCarthy would be right back where he is now except with his reputation destroyed.

The more rational thinkers within the Freedom Caucus clearly have figured that is the kind of promise you can actually trust. It is only those  operating on emotion and personal feelings who refuse to recognize it.

That is mostly a distinction without a difference. Better to get something defined and in writing up front v. 'yeah yeah yeah'.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Doublespeak, which I always expect from you.

Thanks! I try not to disappoint.  It's also comforting for you to confirm that you don't understand the difference.

[Free Vulcan]

And 90% plus of the party aren't going to forget Gaetz, Boebert, and Biggs.  Money will pour into their districts to finance a primary challenger.

And more money will pour in to help them win.

[corbe]

[roamer_1]

And 90% plus of the party aren't going to forget Gaetz, Boebert, and Biggs.  Money will pour into their districts to finance a primary challenger.

Good luck with that. Rosendale will be bulletproof after this.

[DB]

And 90% plus of the party aren't going to forget Gaetz, Boebert, and Biggs.  Money will pour into their districts to finance a primary challenger.

Just more proof of they GOP heads need to be replaced. They spend more money trying to keep actual conservatives out of their club than the other party.

You can spend all the money you like against Biggs, it will not change my vote or anyone I know here.

[LilLamb]

Thanks! I try not to disappoint.  It's also comforting for you to confirm that you don't understand the difference.

You never disappoint!

[oldno7]

It's literally impossible to enact the deal before electing a Speaker because you can't approve the rules and appoint committees until after the Speaker is elected.  So at that level, a certain amount of trust is required.

However, the deal is for changes to the rules and for committee appointments, which are things that happen almost immediately after the Speaker is elected. If McCarthy chose to go back on that deal after being elected Speaker, the Freedom Caucus would immediately move to vacate the chair, and that motion would pass.  So McCarthy would be right back where he is now except with his reputation destroyed.

The more rational thinkers within the Freedom Caucus clearly have figured that is the kind of promise you can actually trust. It is only those  operating on emotion and personal feelings who refuse to recognize it.

I guess I'm just gonna say--WOW.

I'm a retired General contractor, I never poured someone a foundation and then said--lets sit down and negotiate a price on your new house.

Negotiations are always prior to any contract/deal.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

This is what a real honest-to-God democratic process looks like, folks.  It's not pretty, but it's a darn sight better than the authoritarian, fake-unity set-pieces the democrats come up with.

In theory, most of the rules changes sound like good ideas.  However, it should be kept in mind that the reason Pelosi changed the rules was to cripple the GOP minority so that the Dems could enact their agenda.  Reversing those rules when the GOP has the majority means that we will be strengthening the power of the Democratic minority, and at a time when whatever majority we may have is razor thin.

And of course, the Democrats can easily reverse all these rules changes the moment they regain power so as to cripple the GOP minority once again.

I just hope the Freedom Caucus hasn't outsmarted itself with this.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I guess I'm just gonna say--WOW.

I'm a retired General contractor, I never poured someone a foundation and then said--lets sit down and negotiate a price on your new house.

Negotiations are always prior to any contract/deal.

Well, the negotiations are prior to the deal. What you're talking about is having a fully-executed and enforceable contract in place before you begin work as a general contractor.  Right?

The problem is that is legally impossible in the House. No matter what deals are negotiated before McCarthy becomes speaker, they aren't enforceable even if they are signed by everyone involved.  Legally, they are "gentleman's agreements".

[Free Vulcan]

In theory, most of the rules changes sound like good ideas.  However, it should be kept in mind that the reason Pelosi changed the rules was to cripple the GOP minority so that the Dems could enact their agenda.  Reversing those rules when the GOP has the majority means that we will be strengthening the power of the Democratic minority, and at a time when whatever majority we may have is razor thin.

And of course, the Democrats can easily reverse all these rules changes the moment they regain power so as to cripple the GOP minority once again.

I just hope the Freedom Caucus hasn't outsmarted itself with this.

We had 20 people stand their ground on principle. That's going to blow up to 30 to 50 or more if old Kevs starts playing footsie with Rats.

It will be a natural limiter, because the more left he goes, the few GOP votes he gets with now already less than 2 years before his next election.

And if not? Then all hope is lost. I've already been going Galt, the next couple of years will seal the deal of walking away from all interest in federal politics or not, for good.

[EdinVA]

I guess I'm just gonna say--WOW.

I'm a retired General contractor, I never poured someone a foundation and then said--lets sit down and negotiate a price on your new house.

Negotiations are always prior to any contract/deal.

But you can't negotiate a price till you have a plan and that is the issue with mccarthy, his plan.  I would not expect ANYONE to vote for a plan that was incomplete or contrary to the goals...

[bilo]

I think one of the most disconcerting things for me, in all of this, is that you of all people, someone I continually look up to for solid conservatism, is happy with everything that is happening here.

Give it time, you will find out who the principled conservatives are and who are aligned exclusively with a political figure.

[Free Vulcan]

Well, the negotiations are prior to the deal. What you're talking about is having a fully-executed and enforceable contract in place before you begin work as a general contractor.  Right?

The problem is that is legally impossible in the House. No matter what deals are negotiated before McCarthy becomes speaker, they aren't enforceable even if they are signed by everyone involved.  Legally, they are "gentleman's agreements".

As many have said, Kevs has 200+ votes of solid support. He can make whatever agreement there is stick if the holdouts are with him.

[oldno7]

We had 20 people stand their ground on principle. That's going to blow up to 30 to 50 or more if old Kevs starts playing footsie with Rats.

It will be a natural limiter, because the more left he goes, the few GOP votes he gets with now already less than 2 years before his next election.

And if not? Then all hope is lost. I've already been going Galt, the next couple of years will seal the deal of walking away from all interest in federal politics or not, for good.

You don't by chance believe in passing bills first so you can read them, do you?

[catfish1957]

5 votes....

There will be at least a 14th ballot.

[mystery-ak]

Ben Jacobs
@Bencjacobs
·
34s
This is now five Republican dissident votes which means we're going to ballot 14 unless something changes

[mystery-ak]

Jake Sherman
@JakeSherman
·
31s
ANDY HARRIS of Maryland has flipped, marking McCarthy's 15th flip of the day.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I think one of the most disconcerting things for me, in all of this, is that you of all people, someone I continually look up to for solid conservatism, is happy with everything that is happening here.

I'm not happy with conservatives going off half-cocked @LilLamb  They end up shooting themselves in the ass, every time, and gain nothing but a sore ass.  This is why I have asked from the very start:  "What's the plan?" .

I'm hoping the conservatives have learned that strategy does, indeed, count  ----. and remember this in every committee they sit on,  every piece of legislation they propose and every vote they whip.

[Wingnut]

It has already be shown that McCarthy is a whore.  All they are doing now is trying to determine the price for services.

[Free Vulcan]

You don't by chance believe in passing bills first so you can read them, do you?

I'd rather take Vegas odds than anything good coming out of that. 

[Maj. Bill Martin]

As many have said, Kevs has 200+ votes of solid support. He can make whatever agreement there is stick if the holdouts are with him.

I agree. I was simply addressing those who say you can't trust McCarthy, and therefore can't trust that he'll follow through with this deal. I was pointing out that if he doesn't follow through with the deal, the Freedom Caucus will simply move to vacate the chair.

[catfish1957]

And 90% plus of the party aren't going to forget Gaetz, Boebert, and Biggs.  Money will pour into their districts to finance a primary challenger.

These are very right wing anti-RINO districts.....   This will galvanize the electorate.  All the  RINOs you allege can spend themselves  dry in the primaries, they'll just be pissing in the wind.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

It has already be shown that McCarthy is a whore.  All they are doing now is trying to determine the price for services.

Actually, if you were going to throw that appellation around at anyone, McCarthy would be the john, and the FC would be the whores.

Although personally I don't think it's a fair accusation on either side.

[LilLamb]

I'm not happy with conservatives going off half-cocked @LilLamb  They end up shooting themselves in the ass, every time, and gain nothing but a sore ass.  This is why I have asked from the very start:  "What's the plan?" .

I'm hoping the conservatives have learned that strategy does, indeed, count  ----. and remember this in every committee they sit on,  every piece of legislation they propose and every vote they whip.

But, they are standing up to hold McCarthy’s feet to the fire. They want solid conservative concessions from him BEFORE they vote for him. I can’t see how you don’t stand up for that.