Author Topic: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues  (Read 7545 times)

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Offline LMAO

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #75 on: February 03, 2022, 02:46:16 pm »
@LMAO

Want me to explain why water is wet while I am at it?

LOL

All your responses are exactly what I expected. Strawman arguments, lashing out, name-calling etc. etc.

You made the case that we’re all wrong when it comes to debt and spending. Tell us where we’re wrong
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #76 on: February 03, 2022, 02:46:44 pm »
@sneakypete

Quote
Since you mention Social Security, we could cut that budget by 30% without shorting a single retiree a dime.  And no one is proposing we short the military either.
 

@Hoodat

You can't possibly be that delusional.

Quote
Military spending represents less than 3% of GDP.  The problem is that 100% of income tax revenue goes towards direct cash payments to other individuals, and that still doesn't cover it.

Wait a minute Bubba! Didn't you just say that 3 percent of the budget goes to the military? Which is it?

 
Quote
Our income tax code is one big giant wealth redistribution program.
 

I see it as more of a vote-buying machine to keep the professional criminals we know as
Congresscritters in office.

Quote
As for the functions that government actually is supposed to do, we simply print up money to cover those costs.  So yes, spending needs to be cut, and it needs to be cut drastically.

And,YOU,of course are the one to decide where it goes and who gets how much,right?

Quote
Back to Social Security, you want to fix  it?  Then take the government out of the equation and let people invest that 15% of their income as they see fit.

Are you on mind-altering drugs? What is the name of the fantasy planet you live on? That is not only laughable,it just goes to prove how out of touch with reality you really are. Most "blue collar workers" can't even do their own taxes,never mind manage a private retirement fund.

Then again,in YOUR mind,everything is about "Me,me,ME,DAMMIT!" and nobody else matters,right?
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #77 on: February 03, 2022, 02:48:39 pm »



 :beer:

I’ve had a link to the debt clock basically since I’ve been on this forum. I don’t think people like Christian and SP really understand the grave nature of the debt.

There is no amount of taxation that will pay it off or even reduce it. Only spending cuts, and maybe combined with robust economic activity, will do it

@LMAO

So,rather than try to fix what is wrong,let's just throw out the baby with the bathwater,right?
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Offline LMAO

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #78 on: February 03, 2022, 02:51:00 pm »
For the record, I haven't seen a single person here advocating that retirees collecting Social Security should be denied those funds.  But you can put me at the top of the list of those who would gladly cut paying Social Security funds to persons below retirement age.  That group represents 30% of total Social Security payouts.

You can also put me at the top of the list of those who think that working people should be able to invest their Social Security taxes (i.e. 15% of their income) in retirement accounts instead of handing that money over to a government ponzi scheme.  The bottom line is that government spends too much money.  And it is morally wrong to steal our children's future by amassing a huge debt that we expect them to pay for our own excesses.  And it is also morally wrong to steal value from every person in America by devaluing our currency with printing presses.

Right

We are not advocating throwing old people out on the streets or having a military so weak that peasants from Third World countries can overrun it

And I’m also on board with your Social Security idea. We simply don’t have the people to pay for the retirees and all the promises made to them

I do agree with SP that is probably more important for conservatives to get a hold of Congress. A president can veto spending bills but if Congress has the numbers to override it, it doesn’t matter

You can have Calvin Coolidge back in the White House. But it won’t make much of a difference if you have a congress full of Bernie Sanders
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Offline LMAO

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #79 on: February 03, 2022, 02:55:37 pm »
@LMAO

So,rather than try to fix what is wrong,let's just throw out the baby with the bathwater,right?

I guess we’re gonna have to agree to disagree when it comes to the subject of debt, spending, and inflation

There is going to be some hard and painful decisions that are going to have to be made. But angrily lashing out at forum members, telling forum members that the reason they are concerned about the country’s direction is because they are “jealous” of Trump, and adopting AOC type economic arguments is not going to fix it
« Last Edit: February 03, 2022, 04:12:27 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Offline LMAO

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #80 on: February 03, 2022, 02:59:57 pm »


If one thinks otherwise - and a lot of people seem to think otherwise - that simply demonstrates how effective government propaganda is.



I’ve known a few people over the years that think just this very thing
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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Offline Kamaji

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #81 on: February 03, 2022, 03:00:37 pm »
I’ve known a few people over the years that think just this very thing

So have I.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #82 on: February 03, 2022, 03:03:58 pm »
Congress is also culpable. In fact, probably more so

Absolutely... Unfortunately the buck stops at the top.  Congress so seldom gets the credit it so richly (see what I did there ) deserves. Still, there is one signature on the bottom line.

Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #83 on: February 03, 2022, 03:04:47 pm »
Debt is just a number in an abstract accounting ledger.

A dollar is just a tangible piece of paper with a number on it.

It's not real until people start losing access to credit, their homes, their businesses, their livelihoods, and their families.

2008 was the first time I can remember money market accounts "breaking the buck".  Until then, it was presumed that money market accounts were safe.  2008 was the first time I had an Home Equity Line Of Credit (HELOC) completely withdrawn, when I needed it most, even though I had over 40% equity in my home.  2008 the credit markets seized in a manner I hadn't seen before.  Inflationary monetary policy was implemented to stop the deflationary economic death spiral.

During Covid, they were out of monetary policy bullets to counter recessionary forces.  So, in 2020 the Government began implementing inflationary fiscal policy.  They induced consumer spending by flooding households with money to re-stimulate demand.

When Biden came to office, Fed policy was still inflationary, and the Government doubled-down on inflationary fiscal policy.  Biden, also pursued economic policies that constrained supply, adding a 3rd inflationary force to the economy.  The Biden administration needs to reverse policy to re-stimulate production and to diversify American supply chains.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #84 on: February 03, 2022, 03:09:52 pm »
@LMAO

Simple. The world doesn't revolve around you and your selfish desires,and governments have an obligation to protect their citizens. After all,that is why governments are formed.

No... Our government's job is to protect our RIGHTS. that's why it was formed.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #85 on: February 03, 2022, 03:18:00 pm »
@LMAO

So,rather than try to fix what is wrong,let's just throw out the baby with the bathwater,right?

What's wrong is (incredibly) egregious overspending, and an overweening federal government.
How that is fixed is cutting the purse strings, imposing balanced budgets, and restoring to the states that which the federal government has no business doing.

Since you are going on... Social security is not the job of the federal government and it belongs in the various states, if at all. Same with disability.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #86 on: February 03, 2022, 03:21:14 pm »
There is going to be some hard and painful decisions that are going to have to be made.

And some hard and painful lessons. *guaranteed*. You may as well flaunt the law of gravity.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #87 on: February 03, 2022, 03:21:49 pm »
You can't possibly be that delusional.

Alright, then prove me wrong.  Show me where anyone advocates for depriving military personnel of pay and benefits in order to reduce spending.


Wait a minute Bubba! Didn't you just say that 3 percent of the budget goes to the military? Which is it?

No, I said 3% of GDP goes towards military spending, which is low.


I see it as more of a vote-buying machine to keep the professional criminals we know as Congresscritters in office.

By the redistribution of wealth at the point of a gun.


And,YOU,of course are the one to decide where it goes and who gets how much,right?

Uh, no.  Financial reality should decide.  Every household in America understands that you can't spend money you don't have.  Government needs to understand that as well.  You have a budget.  You make hard choices.  For the last 65 years, our government has refused to make hard choices.  It's time for them to grow up.  Because history shows a bleak future for any nation who has allowed their debt to exceed their annual GDP.

This decision falls to our elected legislators and a President chosen by our States.  It was much easier when our Senators were chosen by our States as well, because States understand how budgets work when they don't have the power to inflate the currency.  We screwed up with Amendment XVII.  But we still are the Fourth Branch of Government.  We need to hold our Reps and our President responsible.


Are you on mind-altering drugs?

Not since 1984.


What is the name of the fantasy planet you live on? That is not only laughable,it just goes to prove how out of touch with reality you really are. Most "blue collar workers" can't even do their own taxes,never mind manage a private retirement fund.

Have you ever heard of a 401(k)?  Your employer already handles the Social Security taxes you pay by sending them directly to the US Treasury.  Instead, they could deposit this money into your own personal Social Security Retirement Account - a personal investment account chosen from a list of government-approved investment strategies by the worker him/herself.  It would be no different from the 401(k) a white collar worker has.  The account would grow, enabling each worker to retire with a huge retirement fund.  And if they happen to die when they turn 65, then their families would get that money.


Then again,in YOUR mind,everything is about "Me,me,ME,DAMMIT!" and nobody else matters,right?

Uh no.  This is about wiping out the cycle of poverty that has plagued America for the last several generations.  Because nothing exacerbates that more than our current Social Security Ponzi system.  I am sick and tired of seeing people work their asses off their entire lives as government syphons off 15% of their pay each paycheck 'for their retirement'.  And then when they reach 65 67, they finally start getting a check from the government that allows them to live at the poverty level for a few years.  And when they end up dying at age 71 because Medicare wouldn't cover some procedure they needed, their families get a massive $255 payout from the government to handle funeral costs.  Forty-five years of having their income confiscated at the point of a gun, four years of poverty-level payments, and their families are left with $255 when they pass.

If a private investment firm did this, their entire executive board would be facing 40-year prison sentences.  But when government does it, not only is it OK, but a large portion of the population have been brainwashed to defend it.  And you have the effrontery to say that this is about me, me, me?  I have a 17-year-old son who is going to experience the United States as a third world country, yet you think this is about me?  I'm already screwed.  Less than ten years from retirement age, but even at this point, I would forgo every dime of social security obligation to which I am 'entitled' [sic] if I was allowed to invest that 15% of my income into a 401(k).  Because just ten years of this will provide larger monthly payments in my retirement than what SS will pay.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #88 on: February 03, 2022, 03:24:30 pm »
I read through this thread before posting this to see if someone had already posted it and no one had.

Nixon Ends Convertibility of U.S. Dollars to Gold and Announces Wage/Price Controls

August 1971

Quote
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« Last Edit: February 03, 2022, 03:29:09 pm by Bigun »
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #89 on: February 03, 2022, 03:25:49 pm »
I do agree with SP that is probably more important for conservatives to get a hold of Congress. A president can veto spending bills but if Congress has the numbers to override it, it doesn’t matter

Actually, it does.  There is no Constitutional obligation for a President to spend money that Congress appropriates.  Just look at all the unspent money that has been sitting in the EPA Superfund for the last 40 years.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #90 on: February 03, 2022, 03:28:34 pm »
I read through this thread before posting this to see if someone had already posted it and no one had.

Nixon Ends Convertibility of U.S. Dollars to Gold and Announces Wage/Price Controls

August 1971

Yep.  Nixon was brilliant when it came to foreign policy.  But his economic policies sucked.

Government had a decision to make.  Either become fiscally responsible, or become a wealth redistribution nation.  They chose the latter.  Because without Johnson's Great Society, there was no need to abandon gold.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #91 on: February 03, 2022, 04:07:27 pm »
Yep.  Nixon was brilliant when it came to foreign policy.  But his economic policies sucked.


Nixon through out the first olive branch out to Mao and the Chicoms.  That part wasn't too brilliant.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #92 on: February 03, 2022, 04:16:32 pm »
Debt is just a number in an abstract accounting ledger.

A dollar is just a tangible piece of paper with a number on it.

It's not real until people start losing access to credit, their homes, their businesses, their livelihoods, and their families.

2008 was the first time I can remember money market accounts "breaking the buck".  Until then, it was presumed that money market accounts were safe.  2008 was the first time I had an Home Equity Line Of Credit (HELOC) completely withdrawn, when I needed it most, even though I had over 40% equity in my home.  2008 the credit markets seized in a manner I hadn't seen before.  Inflationary monetary policy was implemented to stop the deflationary economic death spiral.

During Covid, they were out of monetary policy bullets to counter recessionary forces.  So, in 2020 the Government began implementing inflationary fiscal policy.  They induced consumer spending by flooding households with money to re-stimulate demand.

When Biden came to office, Fed policy was still inflationary, and the Government doubled-down on inflationary fiscal policy.  Biden, also pursued economic policies that constrained supply, adding a 3rd inflationary force to the economy.  The Biden administration needs to reverse policy to re-stimulate production and to diversify American supply chains.

@DefiantMassRINO

Home owners should take a page from farmers when it comes to this. Never,EVER borrow money on your home once you have equity in it. Borrow money on something else,or do without.

Regardless of what else happens in your life,you MUST have a place to live,and chances are if you have any equity in your house,your rent would be more than your house payment.

Even if you have to re-finance your home for cheaper payments,do NOT borrow even one thin dime more than you absolutely MUST borrow.  Do NOT think,"Hell,I might as well borrow enough to buy that new SUV I have been lusting after as long as I will be getting all this "free money".

There ain't no such thing as "Free money",and you are a fool if you borrow money on your home to  buy something like a new vehicle that depreciates and that you have to pay increased taxes on for ownership.

NEVER borrow money on your home unless you are truly desperate in some sort of emergency,and have no other choice.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #93 on: February 03, 2022, 04:36:20 pm »

Quote
For the record, I haven't seen a single person here advocating that retirees collecting Social Security should be denied those funds. But you can put me at the top of the list of those who would gladly cut paying Social Security funds to persons below retirement age.  That group represents 30% of total Social Security payouts.

@Hoodat

They are also people who due to injuries,disease,or some sort of physical or mental problem who are unable to work.

Yes,I DO understand that some of these people brought their problems on themselves. Like junkies,for example. I am not positive,but I SUSPECT there are junkies drawing SS because their addiction makes it impossible for them to work or hold jobs.

My heart pumps piss for the people who created their own living hell,but until the laws change and/or some sort of alternative plan is put into place like a "semi-prison" where they are forced to stay clean and learn and work a trade,I have no answers or suggestions to that problem.

However,the vast majority of the people who draw SS retirement or disability checks are people who worked and paid into the system both because they had no choice under the law,and because for many working class people SS retirement is the ONLY retirement plan they will ever have.

There are also people who worked and paid into the SS plan for future retirement who had something happen,and were forced to retire early  due to injury or illness.

I am one of these people. I was forced out of my job as a letter carrier with the US Postal Service because of Agent Orange,which I was exposed to while I was still in the army,and which took a few years to "cook" in my system before making itself known. I had no choice but to retire because the Post office gave me no choice. I was unable to work as a letter carrier,and they refused to allow me to work inside as a clerk.

At the time,I was drawing 10 percent disability from the Veterans Administration for what they were calling "Tropical Acne". I was part way into my second tour in VN when I came down with this and was medi-evaced to Ft.Bragg in late 1969. I was still having trouble with it in the mid-70's  when working with the post office. In fact,I am still having trouble with it today. I  have now been diagnosed with 2 separate forms of Stage 4 cancer that are known to be related to Agent Orange exposure.

Yet,according to people who think like you do,I should be living in a tent somewhere in the woods,and eating out of dumpsters because I shouldn't be receiving Social Security retirement checks.

Nor should the people who were crippled for life in one respect or another due to accidents that were not their fault,like car wrecks,etc,etc,etc.

None of us are able to work,so I guess we should just pitch tents on a sidewalk somewhere,and slowly starve to death in order to make your weekly paychecks bigger?

I suspect your viewpoint would change if you were to suddenly get sick with something incurable,were crippled for life in a car accident,had a severe stroke,etc,etc,etc.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #94 on: February 03, 2022, 04:41:29 pm »
Yet,according to people who think like you do,I should be living in a tent somewhere in the woods,and eating out of dumpsters because I shouldn't be receiving Social Security retirement checks.


Hyperbolic bullcrap.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #95 on: February 03, 2022, 04:46:38 pm »
Hyperbolic bullcrap.

@roamer_1


So,you are for ending SS payments or you are NOT for ending SS payments?

Which is it?
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #96 on: February 03, 2022, 05:24:42 pm »
@sneakypete

As a recovered alcoholic/addict myself, I can empathize with your point.  However, this is not what Social Security was set up for.  You say the law needs to be changed.  But the problem is that the law has been changed already.  In the beginning, the "promise" was that government would tax workers' incomes and in return would pay them money each month for the remainder of their lives after reaching age 65.  That was the deal.

Social Security essentially works the same way as an annuity, except for four key points.  First, as far as annuities go, it has an abysmal rate of return.  Second, unlike a real annuity where the money is invested, there is no investment when it comes to Social Security.  If a real investment firm did what the government does, the entire board would be facing prison for life.  And third, the government declares itself the death beneficiary.  With a real annuity, if the policy holder dies, the remainder of the investment would be passed on to a person of the policy holder's choosing.  But with Social Security, the 'investment company' keeps that money for themselves.  Again, if a real investment company did this, their entire board would end up in prison.  And lastly, unlike a normal annuity where the customer gets to select among thousands of options, with Social Security, the customer gets no choice.  He is forced to buy into the government plan at the point of a gun.

This was a lousy deal for the worker, but a phenomenally lucrative deal for the government.  Over the course of the next eight decades, the money coming into the government far exceeded the money going out.  So with all that extra cash on their hands, they decided to amend the original contract.  They saw all these other people they wanted to help, and decided to include them in the payout money.  They did this by dropping two of their rules.  The beneficiary no longer had to have reached retirement age, and the beneficiary no longer needed to be a contributor.

Even a good ponzi scheme creator will tell you not to change the rules of the scheme once it has started.  But the government did.  Again and again they changed the rules, each time violating the 'contract' with the American worker.

Fast forward to 2009.  For the first time in history, unemployment benefits were extended for 125 weeks.  That's over two years.  But they also changed the Social Security rule in that anyone still unemployed after 2½ years would be re-classified as 'permanently disabled' and would qualify for Social Security benefits for the rest of their lives.  within six years, the amount of money coming in through Social Security taxes would fall short of the money being paid out.  To adjust for this, two things were done.  First, a portion of social security payments became subject to federal income taxes.  And secondly, the retirement age was raised from 65 to 67.  The contract was violated again.  The number of years I can collect had been reduced by two.  And if I continue to work, then the already-taxed benefits that I am 'owed' [sic] will be subject to taxation.

So no, there is no moral high ground to claim here.  One can't argue against having the rules changed now when they have stood silently and allowed them to be changed again and again from Carter until now.  And the worst part is that the American worker is getting screwed.  Again and again.  To reiterate, there is nothing in this country that contributes more to cyclic poverty from generation to generation more than does Social Security.  And the sooner that the government ends it, the better.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #97 on: February 03, 2022, 05:28:33 pm »
@roamer_1


So,you are for ending SS payments or you are NOT for ending SS payments?

Which is it?

@sneakypete

Social security does not belong to the federal government. It belongs to the various states.
And at that, I would MUCH prefer far less taxation so that families had the wherewithal to care for their sick and elderly themselves rather than relying on any government.

The poor, the halt, and the elderly will always be among you - That is true. That does NOT mean we need an overweening governmental bureaucracy to administer them. In fact, that is the worst option of all.

For those that do not have family, who require medical care beyond a family's means, beyond the means of charitable organizations... in that case there is still a place for government. As the last place. And that, historically, has been county driven or at best, state.

So in a word, YES, I am against the current system. It is burgeoning with graft and corruption, it costs multiple times more than it should, it is the biggest carrot dragging the states to do the federal will, and it is largely ineffective.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2022, 05:32:54 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #98 on: February 03, 2022, 05:33:05 pm »
Social Security was a bulwark against Communist revolution.

The unwashed masses are the most dangerous when they have nothing left to lose.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues
« Reply #99 on: February 03, 2022, 05:38:29 pm »
Social Security was a bulwark against Communist revolution.

The unwashed masses are the most dangerous when they have nothing left to lose.

Actually it is the exact opposite - A bulwark of communism imposed upon a libertarian people.