Biden touts plans for lowering prices as inflation surge continues

[Hoodat]

At the time,I was drawing 10 percent disability from the Veterans Administration for what they were calling "Tropical Acne". I was part way into my second tour in VN when I came down with this and was medi-evaced to Ft.Bragg in late 1969. I was still having trouble with it in the mid-70's  when working with the post office. In fact,I am still having trouble with it today. I  have now been diagnosed with 2 separate forms of Stage 4 cancer that are known to be related to Agent Orange exposure.

That money should be coming from DoD or VA (or Monsanto for that matter), not Social Security.  The government shouldn't be pushing these things off to Social Security simply because they saw a giant surplus there. 

Yet,according to people who think like you do,I should be living in a tent somewhere in the woods,and eating out of dumpsters because I shouldn't be receiving Social Security retirement checks.

Uh, nope.  Never said that.  Never said anything close to that.  The government has an obligation to do what they said they were going to do.  Period.  But they do not have an obligation to enslave workers currently working and subject them to that same awful deal.  The bottom line is that you could have worked for minimum wage your entire life, and instead of turning that money over to the government, you could have invested it in a retirement plan.  And when you turned 65, that minimum wage worker would have enough money saved up to pay himself three times his previous income for the next 30 years.  So screw the government and their forced retirement plan.

Nor should the people who were crippled for life in one respect or another due to accidents that were not their fault,like car wrecks,etc,etc,etc.

Again, not what Social Security was set up to cover.

None of us are able to work,so I guess we should just pitch tents on a sidewalk somewhere,and slowly starve to death in order to make your weekly paychecks bigger?

That's what the next 25% of my paycheck covers.  Two out of every five dollars I EARN goes to a federal government so irresponsible that they are $30 trillion in debt.  But I'm the greedy one here?

I suspect your viewpoint would change if you were to suddenly get sick with something incurable,were crippled for life in a car accident,had a severe stroke,etc,etc,etc.

Nope.  I would still be pissed off that the government stole my ability to be self-sufficient by taking 15% of my income and flushing it down the toilet when I could have been investing/purchasing disability insurance for such an event.

[Bigun]

Social Security was a bulwark against Communist revolution.

The unwashed masses are the most dangerous when they have nothing left to lose.

Social Security is the government running the EXACT same thing they put Bernie Madoff in prison for.  A Ponzi scheme.

Show me the constitutional language that allows the fedgov to get into the insurance business!

 

[roamer_1]

Show me the constitutional language that allows the fedgov to get into the insurance business!
[/size]

That's why I said it belongs to the states, if at all... 

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete
 

So no, there is no moral high ground to claim here.  One can't argue against having the rules changed now when they have stood silently and allowed them to be changed again and again from Carter until now.  And the worst part is that the American worker is getting screwed.  Again and again.  To reiterate, there is nothing in this country that contributes more to cyclic poverty from generation to generation more than does Social Security.  And the sooner that the government ends it, the better.

@Hoodat

To be replaced by what,soup kitchens and cardboard boxes for homes?

[sneakypete]

That money should be coming from DoD or VA (or Monsanto for that matter), not Social Security.  The government shouldn't be pushing these things off to Social Security simply because they saw a giant surplus there. 

@Hoodat

So all those years I paid into SS were for nothing? I was just giving the money to the govenrnment?


 

Never said anything close to that.  The government has an obligation to do what they said they were going to do.  Period.

Make up your mind. I either get money from the SS fees I paid into,or I don't. I am now in my  70's,and no chemical company is responsible for that. In FACT,the opposite is closer to true. It is a freaking miracle I have lived this long. I assure you,clever planning had nothing to do with it.

But they do not have an obligation to enslave workers currently working and subject them to that same awful deal.

But MOM! I don't wanna share!

 

The bottom line is that you could have worked for minimum wage your entire life, and instead of turning that money over to the government, you could have invested it in a retirement plan. 

Oh,yeah. And on what planet do people earning $2 per hour working at Manpower when they are able to work find investment plans,and how are they supposed to pay the fees?

And when you turned 65, that minimum wage worker would have enough money saved up to pay himself three times his previous income for the next 30 years.

You are so delusional you might as well be from another planet. I am not sure if what you wrote above borders on humorous or ignorance. You have obviously never lived on minimum wage while trying to pay rent,medical bills,utilities,etc,etc,etc.

The FACT that the government takes it before the poor even get it is the only chance they have of it being invested in any sense,and being there when they retire. This ain't about any arcane theory,it's about reality and real life.

So screw the government and their forced retirement plan.

Says the man with a well-funded pension plan.


 


 

[sneakypete]

Social Security is the government running the EXACT same thing they put Bernie Madoff in prison for.  A Ponzi scheme.

Show me the constitutional language that allows the fedgov to get into the insurance business!

@Bigun

Show me where it is forbidden.

[Hoodat]

@Hoodat

To be replaced by what,soup kitchens and cardboard boxes for homes?

The threat of soup kitchens and cardboard boxes for homes does not justify borrowing money to live comfortably now and sticking our children and grandchildren with the debt they inherit.

In the real world, when a person dies, their debt is settled against their estate only.  It does not pass on to their children.  But with government, that debt is passed down again and again and again, further pushing all of society into poverty.  And eventually that day will come where it all collapses, and government will not have the ability to fund our excesses.  And an entire generation will have nothing to fall back on because they  were forced at the point of a gun to pay for the excesses of past generations.

We wouldn't need soup kitchens and cardboard huts if it weren't for the federal government stealing our wealth and squelching our ability to provide for each other.  It is morally reprehensible to spend money you do not have and expect people who haven't even been born yet to pay for it.

[DefiantMassRINO]

All bureaucracies are in the self-preservation business.

The primary mission of every bureaucracy is to perpetuate itself.

[Bigun]

@Bigun

Show me where it is forbidden.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

If the constitution does not grant them the power to do something they cannot do it!

[LMAO]

If the constitution does not grant them the power to do something they cannot do it!

Yup

In fact, the constitution lists only a few things that Congress is allowed to do.

It’s mind-boggling to me that there are people who just cannot understand why conservatives don’t want to send even more money to a Top-heavy, bureaucratic mess called the federal government that’s given us $30 trillion in debt, has mismanaged the programs that it  runs, and now as a result, we have less freedom and more inflation

You don’t get freedom and prosperity from an ever growing Federal government

And compassion for your fellow man isn’t measured in terms of how much more money you want to send through taxes and borrow and print to that same federal government which has not only hurt our standard of living but threatens the standard of living of other generations

But there is one fact that cannot be named called away…WE ARE OUT OF MONEY!!!!!!!!! What part of that do some not grasp?

[DefiantMassRINO]

Social Security has been previously deemed Constitutional by the Supreme Court on the basis of powers of taxation and spending for the general public welfare.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvering_v._Davis

Is there anything in the Constitution about Federal Government having the power or authority to regulate and manage air traffic control?

[roamer_1]

But there is one fact that cannot be named called away…WE ARE OUT OF MONEY!!!!!!!!! What part of that do some not grasp?

FACTS. In fact, the only fact that matters... What happens to the poor and old and lame when America defaults?

[Wingnut]

Where in the title did anyone think it was a discussion about Social Security?  Asking for a friend.

[Hoodat]

@Hoodat

So all those years I paid into SS were for nothing? I was just giving the money to the govenrnment?

Yes.  You are at the mercy of the federal government.  At any moment, they have the power to stop sending you checks.

Make up your mind. I either get money from the SS fees I paid into,or I don't.

The SS taxes you paid were spent the second they hit the Treasury.  The money you receive now comes from one of three places - 1. taxes paid now.  2.  money borrowed now.  3. money printed now.  It does not come from "SS fees" that you paid years ago.  That money is long gone. 

But MOM! I don't wanna share!

Hey, at least you admit that it's a Ponzi scheme.

Oh,yeah. And on what planet do people earning $2 per hour working at Manpower when they are able to work find investment plans,and how are they supposed to pay the fees?

This is not as complicated as you make it out to be.  Let's say the government approves seven investment companies that together offer 30 or so investment portfolios.  You as a worker are required to invest 15% of your paycheck each pay period into the portfolio of your choosing.  When your company payroll is completed each week, your employer takes that 15%, and instead of sending it to the US Treasury to be spent immediately, it send it to your chosen investment company.  Each month, you can track your portfolio to track its progress and insure that deposits are being made.

So consider a person working full time earning $7.75/hr, contributing to a fund averaging 5% per year, which is quite modest considering long term market performance.  Their annual contribution to their fund would come to around $2430.  If they did this from age 18 to age 67, never  advancing beyond minimum wage, they would have enough money at age 67 to pay themselves an annual salary of $35,800 every year until they turn 90.

All the worker had to do was to pick the investment plan they wanted their money to go into which they would do on their W-4.  And just like that, the cycle of poverty does not get repeated to their offspring.  Because when they die, their families would get to keep everything left over.

The FACT that the government takes it before the poor even get it is the only chance they have of it being invested in any sense

The government doesn't invest their money.  It spends it on other things as soon as it gets it, relying on taking money from other people when the time comes to pay out.  There is no "investment" taking place.

Says the man with a well-funded pension plan.

What's a pension?  From age 23 to 43, I exclusively did blue-collar self-employment work with no possibility of insurance, 401(k), etc.  So don't try that class envy bullshit on me.  It's only in the last 15 years that I've had a 'professional' job, which I have also worked my ass off doing (and which I barely get to keep half after every government entity gets its cut.)   And even now I don't get a pension.  All I get is the opportunity to stick every spare dollar I can come up with into a 401(k) because I know with 100% certainty that when it comes to be my turn to collect Social Security, the government will no longer be able to.  Twenty years from now, there will be only two workers left to pay the social security and medicare payments for each recipient.

[Hoodat]

It’s mind-boggling to me that there are people who just cannot understand why conservatives don’t want to send even more money to a Top-heavy, bureaucratic mess called the federal government that’s given us $30 trillion in debt

A federal government run by people who have a vested political interest in keeping us poor and dependent upon them.

But there is one fact that cannot be named called away…WE ARE OUT OF MONEY!!!!!!!!! What part of that do some not grasp?

It baffles me how people can look at countries like Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Argentina, etc., and see how inflation has driven everyone into poverty, yet when the exact same policy is enacted here, they consider it a moral obligation.

[LMAO]

Yes.  You are at the mercy of the federal government.  At any moment, they have the power to stop sending you checks.


The SS taxes you paid were spent the second they hit the Treasury.  The money you receive now comes from one of three places - 1. taxes paid now.  2.  money borrowed now.  3. money printed now.  It does not come from "SS fees" that you paid years ago.  That money is long gone. 


Hey, at least you admit that it's a Ponzi scheme.


This is not as complicated as you make it out to be.  Let's say the government approves seven investment companies that together offer 30 or so investment portfolios.  You as a worker are required to invest 15% of your paycheck each pay period into the portfolio of your choosing.  When your company payroll is completed each week, your employer takes that 15%, and instead of sending it to the US Treasury to be spent immediately, it send it to your chosen investment company.  Each month, you can track your portfolio to track its progress and insure that deposits are being made.

So consider a person working full time earning $7.75/hr, contributing to a fund averaging 5% per year, which is quite modest considering long term market performance.  Their annual contribution to their fund would come to around $2430.  If they did this from age 18 to age 67, never  advancing beyond minimum wage, they would have enough money at age 67 to pay themselves an annual salary of $35,800 every year until they turn 90.

All the worker had to do was to pick the investment plan they wanted their money to go into which they would do on their W-4.  And just like that, the cycle of poverty does not get repeated to their offspring.  Because when they die, their families would get to keep everything left over.


The government doesn't invest their money.  It spends it on other things as soon as it gets it, relying on taking money from other people when the time comes to pay out.  There is no "investment" taking place.


What's a pension?  From age 23 to 43, I exclusively did blue-collar self-employment work with no possibility of insurance, 401(k), etc.  So don't try that class envy bullshit on me.  It's only in the last 15 years that I've had a 'professional' job, which I have also worked my ass off doing (and which I barely get to keep half after every government entity gets its cut.)   And even now I don't get a pension.  All I get is the opportunity to stick every spare dollar I can come up with into a 401(k) because I know with 100% certainty that when it comes to be my turn to collect Social Security, the government will no longer be able to.  Twenty years from now, there will be only two workers left to pay the social security and medicare payments for each recipient.

When I got out of college, my first job I had no 401(k) or pension. But I invested $100 a month into a Roth IRA.

It wasn’t until 2007 that I got a job that had a 401(k) with a match. In that short time, my wife and I have been able to build ourselves a very nice retirement nest egg.

The idea that “people can’t do it unless the government does it for them” is what’s crippling us

[Hoodat]

Where in the title did anyone think it was a discussion about Social Security?  Asking for a friend.

You got something else you wanna talk about?

[catfish1957]

Where in the title did anyone think it was a discussion about Social Security?  Asking for a friend.

Was wondering how this thread hijack happened too.

[DefiantMassRINO]

We are not out of money.  The Government can always create more money, therefore, we can never be out of money.

Theoretically, government could spend an infinite amount of money.

The US Treasury could issue bonds that are purchased by the Federal Reserve.  The Government could infinitely fund itself by being both the lender and the borrower.

Currency valuation is a confidence game.  Currency is only as valuable as people believe it to be.  If too much money is in circulation at once, with all other things remaining constant, the purchasing power of that currency will decrease.  As people clamor for higher wages to cover living expenses, the inflation death spiral increases exponentially.

The end game is that the dollar is no longer a trusted store of value - TILT - GAME OVER - economic collapse followed by socio-political collapse.

Not long ago, China inquired if US Treasury Bonds could be denominated in gold, instead of dollars, effectively making US Treasur Bonds into gold certificates.  They did this because they were worried about the United States hyperinflating its currency to repurchase dollar-denominated bonds.  This would essentially mean that the holders of these bonds lost purchasing power by holding them.  Think Zimbabwe and Weimar Republic.

[Kamaji]

We are not out of money.  The Government can always create more money, therefore, we can never be out of money.

Theoretically, government could spend an infinite amount of money.

The US Treasury could issue bonds that are purchased by the Federal Reserve.  The Government could infinitely fund itself by being both the lender and the borrower.

Currency valuation is a confidence game.  Currency is only as valuable as people believe it to be.  If too much money is in circulation at once, with all other things remaining constant, the purchasing power of that currency will decrease.  As people clamor for higher wages to cover living expenses, the inflation death spiral increases exponentially.

The end game is that the dollar is no longer a trusted store of value - TILT - GAME OVER - economic collapse followed by socio-political collapse.

Not long ago, China inquired if US Treasury Bonds could be denominated in gold, instead of dollars, effectively making US Treasur Bonds into gold certificates.  They did this because they were worried about the United States hyperinflating its currency to repurchase dollar-denominated bonds.  This would essentially mean that the holders of these bonds lost purchasing power by holding them.  Think Zimbabwe and Weimar Republic.

QFT

[Hoodat]

The end game is that the dollar is no longer a trusted store of value - TILT - GAME OVER - economic collapse followed by socio-political collapse.

Which is exactly where we are heading.

[catfish1957]

Which is exactly where we are heading.

The collapse will most likely happen the day of the announcement that the USD$ is no longer the reference currency of the world.

Our government will not longer be able to use the Treasury as a blank check, and  thusly the $ will start collapsing against other world  currencies, based on true currency value differentiation.   Finally culminating in default on payment of national debt on the books. And anyone thinking Russia and the Chicoms don't already have a plan for this, are seriously in denial.

After government debt default, all faith in the greenback will end, and we will be in a Weimar Republic like inflationary spiral.  The dollar will be in all essence worthless paper.  We will not only be a 3rd world country, but one who will not be prepared to live like a 3rd world country.  Despair will be the national theme...  which will in turn cause a collapse of our government into something that I really can't get my head around at that point.  The quake in political terms may be internal or external.

Dystopia on a real time scale?  Yes.  But this is what happens when you have a government who criminally and recklessly spends  the country into a hole it couldn't dig itself out of.  And right night, I fear we are near that tipping point.

[roamer_1]

We will not only be a 3rd world country, but one who will not be prepared to live like a 3rd world company.  Despair will be the national theme...  which will in turn cause a collapse of our government into something that I really can't get my head around at that point.  The quake in political terms may be internal or external.

Dystopia on a real time scale?  Yes.  But this is what happens when you have a government who criminally and recklessly spends  the country into a hole it couldn't dig itself out of.  And right night, I fear we are near that tipping point.

That is precisely why I am going back to subsistence living. I don't think anything of any monetary worth will matter. I have always maintained the ability to go to an all cash existence - Always have enough in the sock to function... But I don't think even cash will matter. So I am rigging for subsistence and barter. And if I am wrong, there is not a single injury for doing it. My business is all but gone since the first 6 months of lockdown, and I have been basically functioning 'all cash' anyway - flipping cars and smalls to get by...

I could choose differently - I could get a contracting concern off the ground pretty easy right now... But I think I will go bush. I have little faith in money anymore.

[Bigun]

Social Security has been previously deemed Constitutional by the Supreme Court on the basis of powers of taxation and spending for the general public welfare.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvering_v._Davis

Is there anything in the Constitution about Federal Government having the power or authority to regulate and manage air traffic control?

Creative reading!



"With respect to the two words "general welfare," I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."

           Constitutional architect James Madison in a letter to James Robertson

[Hoodat]

Social Security neither promotes the general welfare nor secures the blessings liberty.