World Coronavirus News II with Updates

[TomSea]

But the premise that they were first wasn't really true. The first documented case in the U.S. came nine days before the first Italian case.

That's what the article asserts, so that's what they said:

There is a debate about why Italy was the first major Western country to be hit, especially since it was among the first to ban flights from China.

Also, if one flies in, gets immediately quarantined or the ship cases, that's a bit different than a situation where the virus might have a chance to germinate inside the nation's population.

The first case in the USA?? I would think that could be the Chicago case, but I'm not positive.

Dr. Oz was saying, there's a good chance, the virus existed in the world before, obviously, it was designated. He said he met some of the "Parasite" cast and one of the members was suffering shortness of breath. Of course, this is anecdotal.

Ive got Newsmax on, another factor is testing.  Maybe Italy's testing was limited vs. other countries. It's a matter of many variables.

[Cyber Liberty]

Yes, I think Spain is actually getting socked real bad. Also, even if people want to say it is mainly certain groups getting it, those others are still having to use respirators, ICUs,

MEDICAL PERSONNEL, apparently, just  using nurses, etc. is a big deal Doctors, because they have to be careful they don't get infected themselves, I have no idea what it would be like going into a Doctor's office currently and IF they are dressed very heavily so they don't come in very direct contact with you.

That's complicated by the possibility of cross-contamination.  While the Doc may be protected, it doesn't protect patients from infecting each other.  If a Doctor and Nurse have to don a decon suit, they would have to change out of that suit for each patient and I can see some logistical problems with that. 

But...I am not a Doctor.

[DB]

That's complicated by the possibility of cross-contamination.  While the Doc may be protected, it doesn't protect patients from infecting each other.  If a Doctor and Nurse have to don a decon suit, they would have to change out of that suit for each patient and I can see some logistical problems with that. 

But...I am not a Doctor.

Suffice to say it is a major mess.

[roamer_1]

If 120 people need a respirator and you have 100, what do you do?  First come, first serve or serve those most likely to survive with the respirator?

No, you put out a spec sheet and open the work to the myriad of small businesses out there that know how... Then you do everything in your power to keep materials flowing so that they can get what they need... And have MORE RESPIRATORS.

Of course that does not work once you've shut the place down and all those CNC machines are idle.

Then your finite pie applies.

[mystery-ak]

 Iran And Italy Are Paying A Hefty Price For Close Ties With Communist China

Iran and Italy's economies are worsening, and their people are suffering most in this Wuhan virus outbreak — all because of their leaders’ short-sighted and foolish decisions.

By Helen Raleigh
March 17, 2020

The coronavirus that originated in Wuhan, China, has now swept through 126 countries, infected close to 170,000 people worldwide, and is responsible for more than 6,400 deaths as of March 15. China is leading the world in the number of confirmed cases and deaths. What many people find shocking is that Italy and Iran are the second- and third-hardest hit nations in this outbreak.

By any common-sense measure, both countries should have much lower numbers of confirmed cases and deaths because they are geographically far from the epicenter of the outbreak. The reason these two countries are suffering the most outside China is mainly due to their close ties with Beijing, primarily through the “One Belt and One Road” (OBOR) initiative.

OBOR is Beijing’s foreign policy play disguised as infrastructure investment. Here’s how it works: China and country X agree to do an infrastructure project in country X. Country X has to borrow from a Chinese bank to finance the project. A contract is always awarded to Chinese companies, which then bring supplies and Chinese employees to country X to build the project. Clearly, the country that benefits most from this initiative is China.

more
https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/17/iran-and-italy-are-paying-a-hefty-price-for-close-ties-with-communist-china/

[Cyber Liberty]

Suffice to say it is a major mess.

'Firmtive!

[PeteS in CA]

...  This is a huge responsibility, but he didn't take it as seriously as he should have in the beginning.  I won't fault him, because many people didn't realize what we were dealing with then.  I will fault him if his actions forward don't match the situation we have at hand.  Its going to take a lot to keep people calm.  And people need to hear the truth. 
...

@Chosen Daughter:

China informed WHO of the outbreak in Wuhan of unknown cause: December 31, 2019, https://www.who.int/csr/don/05-january-2020-pneumonia-of-unkown-cause-china/en/

Covid-19 identified to WHO: January 11 and 12, 2020, https://www.who.int/csr/don/12-january-2020-novel-coronavirus-china/en/

This wasn't a serious action? The US started screening arriving passengers from China: January 17, 2020, JFK, SFO, LAX https://www.businessinsider.com/new-disease-virus-china-us-airports-screening-cdc-2020-1 ; O'Hare and Hartsfield-Jackson January 22, 2020, https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/01/21/us-screenings-coronavirus-expanded-airports-atlanta-chicago/

This wasn't a serious action? Pharmaceuticals company working with US government to develop vaccine: January 22, 2020, Moderna, https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/22/moderna-is-working-on-a-vaccine-for-chinas-deadly-coronavirus.html

Wuhan and other cities in Hubei Province shut down travel: January 23, 2020, https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-01-27/5-million-people-left-Wuhan-before-the-lockdown-where-did-they-go--NACCu9wItW/index.html

This wasn't a serious action? State Department raised the travel advisory for China to Level 4, do not travel: January 31, 2020, https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2020/01/31/coronavirus-china-flight-ban-delta-cuts-all-flights-white-house/4620989002/

This wasn't a serious action? Trump declared a public health emergency: January 31, 2020, https://abcnews.go.com/Health/delta-suspends-us-flights-china-amid-coronavirus/story?id=68666037

This wasn't a serious action? People entering the US from China forbidden: February 2, 2020, https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/02/us/coronavirus-us-travel-restrictions/index.html This effectively ended flights from and to China, for obvious reasons. The current date for flights to resume is March 30, 2020.

This wasn't a serious action? An NIH clinical trial of Remdesivir begun: February 25, 2020, at University of Nebraska Medical Center, https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-clinical-trial-remdesivir-treat-covid-19-begins

This wasn't a serious action? Experimental vaccine submitted for testing: February 26, 2020, Moderna, https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/25/business/moderna-coronavirus-vaccine/index.html

This wasn't a serious action? Army signed agreement with Gilead on experimental COVID-19 treatment: March 10, 2020, https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/03/10/army-signs-agreement-with-drug-giant-gilead-on-experimental-covid-19-treatment/

This wasn't a serious action? People entering the US from Europe forbidden: Announced March 11,2020, effective March 13, 2020, https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/travelers-rush-into-us-ahead-of-ban-on-europe-arrivals/ar-BB1173CZ

This wasn't a serious action? Eli Lilly announced partnership with research company to develop a treatment/vaccine as part of the DARPA program: March 13, 2020, https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/companies/eli-lilly-joins-race-to-develop-coronavirus-treatment/ar-BB116BNR

This wasn't a serious action? Testing begins of Moderna's experimental coronavirus vaccine: March 16, 2020, at Kaiser Permanente Washington Health Research Institute, https://www.kpwashingtonresearch.org/news-and-events/recent-news/news-2020/kaiser-permanente-launches-coronavirus-vaccine-study-seattle

Facts contradict your claim, @Chosen Daughter. Trump and his Administration have taken serious action pretty much from when China notified WHO what the virus is, serious actions that are continuing/ongoing. A treatment went into testing on February 25. And a vaccine began testing March 16th. If Trump isn't "taking it seriously" if Trump isn't doing anything, how did those milestones happen?

[Hoodat]

Diamond Princess Mysteries

We had a perfect petri-dish coronavirus disease (COVID-19) experiment with the cruise ship “Diamond Princess”. That’s the cruise ship that ended up in quarantine for a number of weeks after a number of people tested positive for the coronavirus. I got to wondering what the outcome of the experiment was.

So I dug around and found an analysis of the situation, with the catchy title of Estimating the infection and case fatality ratio for COVID-19 using age-adjusted data from the outbreak on the Diamond Princess cruise ship (PDF), so I could see what the outcomes were.

As you might imagine, before they knew it was a problem, the epidemic raged on the ship, with infected crew members cooking and cleaning for the guests, people all eating together, close living quarters, lots of social interaction, and a generally older population. Seems like a perfect situation for an overwhelming majority of the passengers to become infected.

And despite that, some 83% (82.7% – 83.9%) of the passengers never got the disease at all … why?

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/03/16/diamond-princess-mysteries/

It is also interesting that two densely populated cities - Hong Kong and Singapore - reported low infection percentages.  One thing to take into consideration is the climate, especially the humidity.  Influenza viruses do not propagate well in wet conditions.  One could expect a relative humidity approaching 100% all the time in both cities and a cruise ship out to sea.  Higher temperatures push even more water vapor into the air.

[Cyber Liberty]

@PeteS in CA  At the risk of sounding like a "Trump Cheerleader," I'm going to say I've been pretty happy, on balance, with the Administrations actions vis the Corona Virus thus far.  His agencies were on the ball as soon as China reported to WHO the new bug, despite the country being focused on Impeachment.  I think accusations Trump doesn't/didn't give a crap are very unfair.

They can walk and chew bubblegum at the same time.

[PeteS in CA]

@PeteS in CA  At the risk of sounding like a "Trump Cheerleader," I'm going to say I've been pretty happy, on balance, with the Administrations actions vis the Corona Virus thus far.  His agencies were on the ball as soon as China reported to WHO the new bug, despite the country being focused on Impeachment.  I think accusations Trump doesn't/didn't give a crap are very unfair.

They can walk and chew bubblegum at the same time.

When I first started that "timeline" it was because I had already seen that the MSM were ignoring and memory-holing Trump Administration actions, and knew it would be useful to have info readily at hand. Some folks act predictably ... e.g. almost not a peep from my Prog FB friends to the timeline and events subsequent to that post (not even the news of the patient at UC Davis whose life was apparently saved by the experimental drug Remdesivir).

[Cyber Liberty]

When I first started that "timeline" it was because I had already seen that the MSM were ignoring and memory-holing Trump Administration actions, and knew it would be useful to have info readily at hand. Some folks act predictably ... e.g. almost not a peep from my Prog FB friends to the timeline and events subsequent to that post (not even the news of the patient at UC Davis whose life was apparently saved by the experimental drug Remdesivir).

They don't want to go there because their Leftist "gods" do not compare favorably to what we're seeing now.

[Neverdul]

via Imgflip Meme Generator

[thackney]

No, you put out a spec sheet and open the work to the myriad of small businesses out there that know how... Then you do everything in your power to keep materials flowing so that they can get what they need... And have MORE RESPIRATORS.

Of course that does not work once you've shut the place down and all those CNC machines are idle.

Then your finite pie applies.

Yes, If you get busy while learning from the mistakes of others, like Italy.  Machine Shops are not shut down in the US, but the spread of the virus is greatly slowed down.  We now have the time to better prepare than Italy did.

But if you just ignore it, if you allow the virus to spread without taking preventative measures, hospitals get overwhelmed and you are behind the curve.  We have a decent chance to stay ahead of it.

Many of us are going to have to adapt.  Pretending we shouldn't is foolish.

[DB]

No, you put out a spec sheet and open the work to the myriad of small businesses out there that know how... Then you do everything in your power to keep materials flowing so that they can get what they need... And have MORE RESPIRATORS.

Of course that does not work once you've shut the place down and all those CNC machines are idle.

Then your finite pie applies.

My company makes things. We're still making things. There are many components that go into making modern high tech products. It takes time to ramp up the entire supply chain. One missing part and the product isn't complete and likely can't be used. The respirators already in service were supplied over a period of many years. Part of the point of slowing the spread rate down is to provide more time for more supplies to be available. It is going to take weeks if not months to ramp up the supply of respirators to the point of actually making a difference. We definitely wouldn't have that much time is nothing was done to slow the spread down.

[roamer_1]

Yes, If you get busy while learning from the mistakes of others, like Italy.  Machine Shops are not shut down in the US, but the spread of the virus is greatly slowed down.  We now have the time to better prepare than Italy did.

But if you just ignore it, if you allow the virus to spread without taking preventative measures, hospitals get overwhelmed and you are behind the curve.  We have a decent chance to stay ahead of it.

Many of us are going to have to adapt.  Pretending we shouldn't is foolish.

That is not the point. Shutting it all off is the point. And machine shops do nothing without the materials in the pipeline. Parts houses ARE shutting down here. 

[roamer_1]

My company makes things. We're still making things. There are many components that go into making modern high tech products. It takes time to ramp up the entire supply chain. One missing part and the product isn't complete and likely can't be used. The respirators already in service were supplied over a period of many years. Part of the point of slowing the spread rate down is to provide more time for more supplies to be available. It is going to take weeks if not months to ramp up the supply of respirators to the point of actually making a difference. We definitely wouldn't have that much time is nothing was done to slow the spread down.

Supplies will not be available if the place is shut down.

And I disagree too - I don't thing you NEED a modern respirator. When in need you need ANY respirator. Something that is mechanically capable can be made if encouraged...

[Cyber Liberty]

Supplies will not be available if the place is shut down.

And I disagree too - I don't thing you NEED a modern respirator. When in need you need ANY respirator. Something that is mechanically capable can be made if encouraged...

I read somewhere that some medical people have figured out how to convert CPAP machines into make-shift Respirators.  There are a million of those available.

[roamer_1]

I read somewhere that some medical people have figured out how to convert CPAP machines into make-shift Respirators.  There are a million of those available.

Right. They don't work perfectly, but they take the weight off so those that are dire have more access to respirators.

[DB]

Supplies will not be available if the place is shut down.

And I disagree too - I don't thing you NEED a modern respirator. When in need you need ANY respirator. Something that is mechanically capable can be made if encouraged...

We're still making things. Assembly houses are still operating here. It still takes time to ramp things up. In the electronics industry it isn't uncommon to have 20+ week lead times for parts. Everything is planned ahead when it involves any significant volume.

You forget the lawyers. Anyone who dies on anything less than fully functional and approved device is going to be open to big lawsuits.

[roamer_1]

You forget the lawyers. Anyone who dies on anything less than fully functional and approved device is going to be open to big lawsuits.

RIGHT. THAT's what the government should be doing. Paving the way. Cutting red tape. Making sure the pipeline is full - overflowing and pressurized.That is what gives us options... agility.

I will reiterate that this is not a medical problem as much as it is a logistical one.

[DB]

I read somewhere that some medical people have figured out how to convert CPAP machines into make-shift Respirators.  There are a million of those available.

Has there been any actual data collected on if that really works or not? I use a CPAP machine every night... When you first start using one it is harder to breath because you naturally fight the added pressure. After awhile you get use to it and don't notice the pressure much - but that does take awhile. Another question is if it pushes fluid further into the lungs causing more problems filling deeper areas. Just curious...

Normal respirators push air in and pull air out forcing you to breath at the machines rhythm. CPAP doesn't do that at all. It just pressurizes you to open things up. There is a variant called BPAP that has two different pressure levels that changes between inhaling and exhaling. They are less common but they may be more helpful as a substitute to a respirator.

[Cyber Liberty]

Right. They don't work perfectly, but they take the weight off so those that are dire have more access to respirators.

Correct.  I'd accept half-assed measures if they'll do OK for me, with the added benefit of ensuring real ventilators can go to people worse off than me.

[Cyber Liberty]

Has there been any actual data collected on if that really works or not? I use a CPAP machine every night... When you first start using one it is harder to breath because you naturally fight the added pressure. After awhile you get use to it and don't notice the pressure much - but that does take awhile. Another question is if it pushes fluid further into the lungs causing more problems filling deeper areas. Just curious...

Normal respirators push air in and pull air out forcing you to breath at the machines rhythm. CPAP doesn't do that at all. It just pressurizes you to open things up. There is a variant called BPAP that has two different pressure levels that changes between inhaling and exhaling. They are less common but they may be more helpful as a substitute to a respirator.

I'm not suggesting CPAPs can replace the ventilator, but they can help for less-severe cases.  And I think there's retro-fitting involved as well.  They don't just stick a CPAP on somebody in respiratory distress.

[TomSea]

China pulls credentials of journalists working for New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, Time, and VOA
by Joel Gehrke | March 17, 2020

China is banning journalists from five American media outlets in retaliation for President Trump’s requirement that Chinese state-run media organizations register as foreign missions.

“They will not be allowed to continue working as journalists in the People's Republic of China, including its Hong Kong and Macao Special Administrative Regions,” China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs announced through state-run media.

The new policy affects five organizations: Voice of America, a U.S.-funded outlet; the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, and Time magazine. Employees of those organizations must hand in their press badges within 10 days, according to the announcement.

Read more at:   https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/china-pulls-credentials-from-journalists-working-for-new-york-times-washington-post-wall-street-journal-time-and-voa

[DB]

I'm not suggesting CPAPs can replace the ventilator, but they can help for less-severe cases.  And I think there's retro-fitting involved as well.  They don't just stick a CPAP on somebody in respiratory distress.

I understand. And maybe they offer significant benefit unmodified. Just curious if any data supports that or not. I have no idea...