Why Trump Is Right to Withdraw Troops

[Right_in_Virginia]

Never thought we'd be the cheese eating surrender monkeys.

Everything's different now.

Surrender from WHAT @Major Confusion ... What are we fighting ... what are we winning in Syria and Afghanistan?

WHAT?

[Fishrrman]

Let the Europeans help the Kurds.
They're closer to the problem.

Or... the Israelis.

[corbe]

   A different flavor of Whataboutism @Right_in_Virginia if it was hellary or Bernie pushing the Kurds under the bus you'd be screaming bloody murder.

[edpc]

What?  Are we supposed to look forward to the 18th anniversary in Syria like we are in Afghanistan?  Is that how you want to spend our blood and treasure?

These people have declared war on us and others a long time ago. We’re going to fight them somewhere and sometime. I’d rather it’s against our military on our terms, in their backyard, over American civilians, in our streets, when they decide.

Surrender from WHAT @Major Confusion ... What are we fighting ... what are we winning in Syria and Afghanistan?

WHAT?

See above. You take the fight to the enemy. The Sec Def understands that.

I don't worry about stress. I create it. - Jim Mattis

[Chosen Daughter]

We are abandoning allies, the Kurds who did, with our help, route one of the greatest evils since World War II,  ISIS, They did the dirty work, we provided air support, they spilt blood. That is it in a nutshell, again the videos provide more info.

Trump is using poor judgment.  Why have a Defense Secretary if you don't listen to them?  That is a big problem with Trump.  He said during the campaign that he would listen to what his Generals had to say but he would make the decisions.  I have to find the quote.  Its been so long now.

Trump doesn't know what he is doing.  It is sad to see him throwing the Kurds to the wolves.

[Bigun]

Why?  Why can't someone tell me what the U.S. has actually done to help the Kurds?  It's not like they're safe with us there .... we're not going to war with a NATO ally for the Kurds.  So, what's our role?

@Right_in_Virginia

THAT is exactly the problem! We haven't done a damned thing for the Kurds even though they have been there for us always and we've thrown them to the wolves every damned time afterwards. It makes me SICK!

[Absalom]

Reflections:
* Doug Bandow, a serious conservative who writes for Cato, deserves respect.
* Further, all the sanctimonious bather about "the poor Kurds" is hysterical.
In 1915, Ottoman paranoids decided to exterminate their Armenian Christian
minority, the Kurds being their instrument, by marching some 2,000,000 men,
women and children into the north eastern deserts of that Empire; to die of
dehydration, exhaustion and starvation.
The next decade, to their credit, the Kurds, contrary to the Ottomans, publicly
owned their genocide by formally apologizing for this disgrace; to the Armenian
survivors as well as the world; which foretold the Jewish Holocaust!

[DCPatriot]

Let the Europeans help the Kurds.
They're closer to the problem.

Or... the Israelis.

Exactly my thoughts.  ...even if Israeli jets were being flown by American pilots.

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia

THAT is exactly the problem! We haven't done a damned thing for the Kurds even though they have been there for us always and we've thrown them to the wolves every damned time afterwards. It makes me SICK!

Are you suggesting we owe the Kurds our military serving as their protectors into perpetuity?  And would their enemies be ours to fight?

What do you want @Bigun   And why for the Kurds?

[Right_in_Virginia]

   A different flavor of Whataboutism @Right_in_Virginia if it was hellary or Bernie pushing the Kurds under the bus you'd be screaming bloody murder.

How are we pushing the Kurds under the bus?  And why are the Kurds at the center of our military and foreign policy?

What the hell is this about?

[Right_in_Virginia]

Could the President be transferring responsibility for protection of the Kurds to the regional players? 

Saudi Arabia, UAE send troops to support Kurds in Syria
Middle East Monitor, Nov 22, 2018

Saudi Arabia and the UAE have sent military forces to areas controlled by the Kurdish YPG group in north-east Syria, Turkey’s Yenisafak newspaper reported.

The paper said the forces will be stationed with US-led coalition troops and will support its tasks with huge military enforcements as well as heavy and light weapons.

Quoting the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, the newspaper reported that a convoy of troops belonging to an Arab Gulf state recently arrived in the contact area between the Kurdish PKK/YPG and Daesh in the Deir Ez-Zor countryside.


https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20181122-saudi-arabia-uae-send-troops-to-support-kurds-in-syria/   

@Bigun @mystery-ak

[edpc]

Could the President be transferring responsibility for protection of the Kurds to the regional players?

You might want to get a map to see who the major regional player is for Kurds that reside in Northern Syria and Iraq.

[Right_in_Virginia]

You might want to get a map to see who the major regional player is for Kurds that reside in Northern Syria and Iraq.

Let me guess ... your vote is "no".   

[edpc]

Let me guess ... your vote is "no".   

Good guess. So let me ask you a question....

You might want to also consider the decision to leave Syria followed a conversation between Erdogan and Trump by about a week. Also, one of the problems Trump had with regional players was the potential they’d purchase military hardware from Russia or China. Turkey had been considering the Russian S-400 for air defense. Just this week, they received authorization to acquire our Patriot system. Do you find all those events to be coincidental?

[TomSea]

Trump is using poor judgment.  Why have a Defense Secretary if you don't listen to them?  That is a big problem with Trump.  He said during the campaign that he would listen to what his Generals had to say but he would make the decisions.  I have to find the quote.  Its been so long now.

Trump doesn't know what he is doing.  It is sad to see him throwing the Kurds to the wolves.

 

I agree, he doesn't know what he is doing OR there is more to this than we know OR and Mark Levine commented on this, he's taking after the Rand Paul/Ron Paul sort of view of these wars.

Anyway, on this alone, though, I thought he was doing a good job on most things, another Republican could probably mount some sort of challenge, maybe Sasse.  I'd find it hard to vote for someone making this stupid of a mistake and besides, there is loyalty.

[TomSea]

Reflections:
* Doug Bandow, a serious conservative who writes for Cato, deserves respect.
* Further, all the sanctimonious bather about "the poor Kurds" is hysterical.
In 1915, Ottoman paranoids decided to exterminate their Armenian Christian
minority, the Kurds being their instrument, by marching some 2,000,000 men,
women and children into the north eastern deserts of that Empire; to die of
dehydration, exhaustion and starvation.
The next decade, to their credit, the Kurds, contrary to the Ottomans, publicly
owned their genocide by formally apologizing for this disgrace; to the Armenian
survivors as well as the world; which foretold the Jewish Holocaust!

The Kurds were offered bounties for killing Armenians and some took that up. Calling them the instrument of the genocide, I'm not so sure about.

They certainly defeated ISIS with USA/coalition airpower primarily. ISIS has committed genocide.

Now, these Kurds are actually, an offshoot to an extent of some sort of Socialist/Communist party, really but I don't know if that is pervasive.

[Bigun]

Are you suggesting we owe the Kurds our military serving as their protectors into perpetuity?  And would their enemies be ours to fight?

What do you want @Bigun   And why for the Kurds?

@Right_in_Virginia


I want the United States to be the partner you can count on again.  Because they deserve it more than almost anyone else.

[sneakypete]

Why Trump Is Right to Withdraw Troops
National Interest, Dec 20, 2018, Doug Bandow

[...]

Washington’s “usual suspects” came with a gaggle of bizarrely ambitious alternative objectives to justify America’s continued military presence. Why remain in a multisided civil war filled with bad participants and choices? Why stay to protect the Kurds, satisfy the Turks, limit the Iranians, cow the Syrians, moderate the Russians, and perhaps cure the common cold?  [...]

I can tell you one big reason why they want to keep the various wars going. Namely the economy and unemployment figures. War has always been good for the economy,even if not so good for individual taxayers. Lots and lots of industries,especially in leftist states,are booming due to providing goods and services to an employed and building US Military.

Which means that not only would many of these businesses fail if we were to sober up enough to recognize the futility of fighting a war the wrong ways,and bring the troops back home,but also means most of those troops would soon be out of uniform and on unemployment.

All of which means that politicians in the states with the defense industries and states with military bases would lose votes. NOBODY likes  high unemployment.

[sneakypete]

Whoever wrothe this article is taking some MAJOR drugs and should seek help immediately!  Before it's too late!

@Bigun

Anybody that seriously thinks that needs to be on drugs themselves.

[sneakypete]

Right on. Let's eff up another place with no value to the world so that we can have another disaster like Iraq on our hands. Regime change is awesome. It was real swell when we were forced to cut a deal with the Taliban to try and inject some stability there. What a grand idea. In 20 years after more billions are flushed down the toilet and all the Christians are exterminated we can cut a deal with effing Isis. Whatever it takes to support these nomadic shit farmers the Kurds, right?

@Amb. Frank Cannon

That pretty much sums it up.

I would only add that we really,REALLY need to bring more Muslim refugees to the US. There are still a few places with no mosques and few welfare workers.

[sneakypete]

These people have declared war on us and others a long time ago. We’re going to fight them somewhere and sometime.

@edpc

For the most part we are not fighting them now. What we are doing is waiting for them to attack our convoys or bases,and then responding to the attack.

See above. You take the fight to the enemy. The Sec Def understands that.

HorseHillary! If Mattis has ever heard a shot fired it was on a rifle range. He is,and has always been a military executive. He DOES understand how important it is to his financial future to keep the defense contract industry going,though.

Other than for a few SEAL and SF teams,we are not fighting an aggressive war. We are fighting a defensive war,and it will go on forever.

I don't worry about stress. I create it. - Jim Mattis

I have no doubt Mattis,like every other General,has no trouble creating stress for his subordinates.

[sneakypete]

Are you suggesting we owe the Kurds our military serving as their protectors into perpetuity?  And would their enemies be ours to fight?

What do you want @Bigun   And why for the Kurds?

@Bigun @Right_in_Virginia

That is PRECISELY what he is doing,even though it is unlikely he understands that himself.

Perpetual War only benefits the defense industry.

This ain't the 18th Century and you do NOT win wars today with bayonet charges. You win wars today by killing the people who fund the enemy. When you cut off their money,the enemy soldiers will lay down their guns and go home.

We have done just the opposite by butting heads with the Russians while propping up and kissing the asses of the (mostly) Saudi paymasters while providing protecting for the very people keeping the war alive.

Not that this is going to bother the Bush Bots.

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia


I want the United States to be the partner you can count on again.  Because they deserve it more than almost anyone else.

Counting on us does NOT mean we are yours for life @Bigun   It means we will pull you up and out, but you must stand on your own.

Other nations can help the Kurds now, as are SA and the UAE.  If that's not enough, the Israelis can pitch in.

We are neither the global policeman or babysitter. 

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Bigun @Right_in_Virginia

That is PRECISELY what he is doing,even though it is unlikely he understands that himself.

Perpetual War only benefits the defense industry.

This ain't the 18th Century and you do NOT win wars today with bayonet charges. You win wars today by killing the people who fund the enemy. When you cut off their money,the enemy soldiers will lay down their guns and go home.

We have done just the opposite by butting heads with the Russians while propping up and kissing the asses of the (mostly) Saudi paymasters while providing protecting for the very people keeping the war alive.

Not that this is going to bother the Bush Bots.

When did the Kurds become our responsibility @sneakypete   I must have missed the memo.

[sneakypete]

When did the Kurds become our responsibility @sneakypete   I must have missed the memo.

@Right_in_Virginia

I THINK we adopted them during the administration of Bush,the lesser,but it could have been during the Bush,the greater butthole.

And of course we adopted them because  that is the way to get the Republican and alleged Republican voters to back your next run for public office,while pulling in mega-bucks for your campaign from the defense industry.

We invaded Iraq PURELY because Boy Jorge was facing a tough re-election campaign,and needed to get voters to rally behind him. Not that HE understood that,or even knew about it,but that was why Babs and his other handlers got him to do it.

That plan worked so well I have no doubt we will soon adopt another foreign tribe.