Author Topic: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans  (Read 7369 times)

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Oceander

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #75 on: November 01, 2018, 01:17:40 pm »
It will be interesting to see the text of the EO.   The threshold problem with any EO with respect to the 14A is that it is Congress that, under its terms,  has the power "to enforce by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article".    And Congress has occasionally done that, such as its law that allowed John McCain (born in the Canal Zone) to be a birthright citizen.   

Perhaps the EO will simply instruct the executive branch to recognize birthright citizenship only to the extent that Congress, or the Courts, have heretofore mandated it.    There is no court decision that mandates the child of an undocumented immigrant be a citizen.   The Wong Kim Ark case is indeed pivotal, and establishes the proposition the jus soli indeed applies to the children of non-citizens,  but that case involved the child of parents legally resident here:

But in the case of an undocumented illegal, there is no mutuality of allegiance - neither the federal government nor the sojourner acknowledges her presence here.   

Mutuality of allegiance, whatever that might mean, is not a requirement.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #76 on: November 01, 2018, 01:18:40 pm »

We DO NOT WANT millions more third world squatters

We're talking past each other.   This isn't about illegal immigration.   It is about immigration of the legal variety - absolutely essential to our prosperity.   Immigrants have, since the birth of the Republic, come here for work and opportunity, not to squat.   My grandparents were all immigrants.  Perhaps yours were too.     

I know exactly why you oppose "third world" immigration.   And it hasn't a damn thing to do with either patriotism, or Christian compassion.   
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 01:19:52 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #77 on: November 01, 2018, 01:39:59 pm »
This isn't about illegal immigration.   It is about immigration of the legal variety - absolutely essential to our prosperity.

Liberal Horseshit.   Our borders were essentially closed to all but selected nations that were seen to be a benefit to society and not a drag on it and all immigration was severely restricted via visa quotas from 1920 until 1964.

Immigrants have, since the birth of the Republic, come here for work and opportunity, not to squat.   My grandparents were all immigrants.  Perhaps yours were too.
   

They came to work and BECOME Americans.  That does not exist today.  Immigration to a welfare state is NOT essential to our prosperity.  It is our modern version of having Barbarians and Visigoths permitted into our borders to outbreed citizens so as to sack and plunder from within.

I know exactly why you oppose "third world" immigration.   And it hasn't a damn thing to do with either patriotism, or Christian compassion.

You don't know shit.

You go live in the dirt of a third world cesspool like I did, and try and tell me you want that living next door to you on your subsidy.

Unlike you, I bring compassion to THEM with my own time and money, not force my neighbors here to pay for it and subsidize it so you can feel good about yourself.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #78 on: November 01, 2018, 01:51:00 pm »
Liberal Horseshit.   Our borders were essentially closed to all but selected nations that were seen to be a benefit to society and not a drag on it and all immigration was severely restricted via visa quotas from 1920 until 1964.
   

They came to work and BECOME Americans.  That does not exist today.  Immigration to a welfare state is NOT essential to our prosperity.  It is our modern version of having Barbarians and Visigoths permitted into our borders to outbreed citizens so as to sack and plunder from within.

You don't know shit.

You go live in the dirt of a third world cesspool like I did, and try and tell me you want that living next door to you on your subsidy.

Unlike you, I bring compassion to THEM with my own time and money, not force my neighbors here to pay for it and subsidize it so you can feel good about yourself.

Your naked racism comes shining through.   You want immigration by whites only,  the brown ones are just coming here to "outbreed" us.  Be honest and admit it. 

Simply disgusting.   You make a mockery of your Christian faith with your palpable contempt for folks who want to escape the "cesspools" - little different than Ireland and Sweden in the 19th century - and seek the same opportunities that your and my ancestors did.   
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #79 on: November 01, 2018, 02:12:06 pm »
Mutuality of allegiance, whatever that might mean, is not a requirement.

Is that statement based on your reading of Wong Kim Ark, or something else, @Oceander ?    How can an illegal be said to be "resident [in the United States] under the protection of the government and owing a temporary allegiance thereto"  if neither the illegal nor the federal government acknowledges her presence here?   
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #80 on: November 01, 2018, 02:15:05 pm »
Your naked racism comes shining through.   You want immigration by whites only,  the brown ones are just coming here to "outbreed" us.  Be honest and admit it. 

Oh yes, I'm a "naked racist":



You should just shut the hell up with your liberal Claptrap, because no one here is buying your garbage.

Simply disgusting.   You make a mockery of your Christian faith with your palpable contempt for folks who want to escape the "cesspools" - little different than Ireland and Sweden in the 19th century - and seek the same opportunities that your and my ancestors did.

What is morbidly disgusting is people like you who truly engage in virtue signaling to pump liberal/Socialist/diversity-is-our-strength bullshit without any advocacy of and mention of ASSIMILATION into an American culture.  Instead, people like you do the opposite and shit all over any talk of assimilation because - well, you just said it - we're a 'naked racist country'.

So Socialist morons and imbeciles can continue to  push for open borders to a welfare state - and call it "legal".  All you want is for them to get a ticket and a lifetime meal ticket voucher to come pouring in so you can flout your 'compassion' by using our money to sate your perverted set of morals.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 02:17:55 pm by INVAR »
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #81 on: November 01, 2018, 02:20:15 pm »
:pondering:

Whether one agrees with the President on this or not, he certainly did open the door for discussion of the "birthright citizenship" issue.  Many of us have been howling in the wilderness about this, and now people are waking up to what we've been saying for years.

I hope he pulls this off, one way or another.

@Cyber Liberty

As a fellow wilderness howler, so do I!  And so does John Eastman.

https://nypost.com/2018/10/30/revoking-birthright-citizenship-would-enforce-the-constitution/
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #82 on: November 01, 2018, 02:23:38 pm »
I know exactly why you oppose "third world" immigration.   And it hasn't a damn thing to do with either patriotism, or Christian compassion.

This has everything to do with American sovereignty, defined by us, not the UN. 

It also has to do with finally implementing a merit-based system of LEGAL immigration.  How many doctors, attorneys, scientists, technicians are marching in these caravans? Hell, how many graduated high school or won't be on public assistance?

How many are carrying diseases that we won't detect and infect the American citizenry?  How many will overload our already stressed health care system?  Why should hardworking, tax paying American patriots put up with this?

So, spare me the judgement @Jazzhead   These caravans are not migrants desperate to be American citizens, they hold no love for or commitment to the United States--they're militants hell bent on getting what they want because they want it .... and will do so any way they can. 

In many way they're actually more like global locusts.   Someone should warn Canada because when they've bled the US dry, they're next.

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #83 on: November 01, 2018, 02:38:21 pm »
Your naked racism comes shining through.   You want immigration by whites only,  the brown ones are just coming here to "outbreed" us.  Be honest and admit it. 

Simply disgusting.   You make a mockery of your Christian faith with your palpable contempt for folks who want to escape the "cesspools" - little different than Ireland and Sweden in the 19th century - and seek the same opportunities that your and my ancestors did.

Does using the word racism somehow validate your opposition to enforced border laws?  What Invar said is absolutely true.  There is nothing racist about it.  If you want immigration it has to be legal and for the benefit of the country and its citizens.  There is no more need for low income labor.  Plenty here already.  Has nothing to do with color of skin. 

What is happening is not good for the country. It is only good for the people that benefit from cheap labor.  If it was your job you wouldn't be using the racist card.  That racist card.....so convenient.  And these people do not come and take care of themselves.  They rely on social benefits that our legal citizens have to pay for.  I don't care whether they are black, brown, yellow or white.  They need to come into this country legally and according to real need.
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Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #84 on: November 01, 2018, 02:47:42 pm »
Your naked racism comes shining through.   You want immigration by whites only,  the brown ones are just coming here to "outbreed" us.  Be honest and admit it. 

Simply disgusting.   You make a mockery of your Christian faith with your palpable contempt for folks who want to escape the "cesspools" - little different than Ireland and Sweden in the 19th century - and seek the same opportunities that your and my ancestors did.

You're an immigration attorney, aren't you?

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #85 on: November 01, 2018, 02:47:45 pm »
Not so.
got anything go back that up or is this just another opinion by you?
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #86 on: November 01, 2018, 02:49:24 pm »
What is morbidly disgusting is people like you who truly engage in virtue signaling to pump liberal/Socialist/diversity-is-our-strength bullshit without any advocacy of and mention of ASSIMILATION into an American culture.  Instead, people like you do the opposite and shit all over any talk of assimilation because - well, you just said it - we're a 'naked racist country'.

So Socialist morons and imbeciles can continue to  push for open borders to a welfare state - and call it "legal".  All you want is for them to get a ticket and a lifetime meal ticket voucher to come pouring in so you can flout your 'compassion' by using our money to sate your perverted set of morals.

All straw men.   Like all conservatives,  I reject identity politics and the notion that American is not a melting pot where assimilation is the norm.   I support immigration of the legal variety,  to allow this nation's economic and cultural progress to continue.    And I do not support open borders - to the contrary,  I support both the President's commitment to protect the border and limit the reach of birthright citizenship. 

As for you and your self-serving photograph of your doughy little white hands,  your "mercy" is tempered by your abject contempt - expressed frequently on this board - for the folks you "ministered" to.    If India's a cesspool,  why are we getting a lot of our top tech talent from there?    Why not show some real compassion?    Jobs and opportunity are what folks everywhere want and need,  not some silly man washing their feet.       
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Offline skeeter

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #87 on: November 01, 2018, 02:50:07 pm »
Does using the word racism somehow validate your opposition to enforced border laws?  What Invar said is absolutely true.  There is nothing racist about it.  If you want immigration it has to be legal and for the benefit of the country and its citizens.  There is no more need for low income labor.  Plenty here already.  Has nothing to do with color of skin. 

What is happening is not good for the country. It is only good for the people that benefit from cheap labor.  If it was your job you wouldn't be using the racist card.  That racist card.....so convenient.  And these people do not come and take care of themselves.  They rely on social benefits that our legal citizens have to pay for.  I don't care whether they are black, brown, yellow or white.  They need to come into this country legally and according to real need.

Proponents of open borders have always used the race card and will continue to use the race card as society continues to crumble around their ears. Its an easy alternative to debating.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #88 on: November 01, 2018, 02:52:57 pm »

As for you and your self-serving photograph of your doughy little white hands,  your "mercy" is tempered by your abject contempt - expressed frequently on this board - for the folks you "ministered" to.    If India's a cesspool,  why are we getting a lot of our top tech talent from there?    Why not show some real compassion?    Jobs and opportunity are what folks everywhere want and need,  not some silly man washing their feet.     

Doughy white hands eh? No, nothing racially derogatory there.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #89 on: November 01, 2018, 02:55:18 pm »

So, spare me the judgement @Jazzhead   

Oh, just can it @Right_in_Virginia    Your lips are so puckered you don't know who your allies are.   I've been defending the President's vow to protect the border and limit the reach of birthright citizenship.  But I'm not going to shut up when I read INVAR's palpable racism.    Folks fleeing epidemic gang violence may or may not be legally eligible for asylum,  but you don't do Trump a bit of good when you dismiss them as "locusts".   
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Offline Night Hides Not

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #90 on: November 01, 2018, 03:17:50 pm »
Does using the word racism somehow validate your opposition to enforced border laws?  What Invar said is absolutely true.  There is nothing racist about it.  If you want immigration it has to be legal and for the benefit of the country and its citizens.  There is no more need for low income labor.  Plenty here already.  Has nothing to do with color of skin. 

What is happening is not good for the country. It is only good for the people that benefit from cheap labor.  If it was your job you wouldn't be using the racist card.  That racist card.....so convenient.  And these people do not come and take care of themselves.  They rely on social benefits that our legal citizens have to pay for.  I don't care whether they are black, brown, yellow or white.  They need to come into this country legally and according to real need.

All one needs to do is take a look around. There are a number of communities in North Texas that have been swamped by the H-1B worker, specifically Valley Ranch (North Irving) and Frisco. When we moved here 20+ years ago, the new elementary school had sufficient students for only the first floor. In the years that followed, Indian/South Asians have congregated here, where they now account for over a third of the student population...in a district where the teachers are 90% white.

Another elementary school is under construction, across the street from us, the second new elementary school to be built in the past three years.

From my vantage point, at least a third show no signs of assimilation, particularly the stay at home parents and especially the grandparents of the extended family that are allowed to immigrate here. Our neighborhood alone is now 80% Indian...lovely people, no complaints. The commercial development at Cypress Waters a mile away guarantees that the H-1B program will continue in force for years to come.

Frisco ISD has grown even more, now with 10 High schools to meet the population boom.

The employment centers of Dallas, Las Colinas, and Plano are hubs for H-1B workers, depressing salaries for citizens, despite the historically low unemployment rates.

I've spoken to my son's and grandson's class for Veterans Day for years. Last year, I asked my grandson's class, "how many of you live in households where English is not the first language spoken?" At least 75% of the students raised their hands. I explained that I know what's that like, as I lived in Germany for four years, and learned to speak the language there.

There's no racism in INVAR's words, just an informed opinion in a politically correct world.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #91 on: November 01, 2018, 03:24:04 pm »
Does using the word racism somehow validate your opposition to enforced border laws? 

I do not oppose the enforcement of border laws.  Stop lying. 
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #92 on: November 01, 2018, 03:37:02 pm »
As for you and your self-serving photograph of your doughy little white hands,  your "mercy" is tempered by your abject contempt - expressed frequently on this board - for the folks you "ministered" to.    If India's a cesspool,  why are we getting a lot of our top tech talent from there?    Why not show some real compassion?    Jobs and opportunity are what folks everywhere want and need,  not some silly man washing their feet.     

Jesus likewise would be a silly man according to you, considering He instructed His followers to follow that exact example. 

You also demonstrate a hilarious level of abject moronic ignorance about Indian society with no clue whatsoever about it.

Your slimy contempt for those doing things you never in this lifetime would ever soil yourself with, speaks volumes.  You advocate empowering government to do what you will not with other people's money while you lecture the rest of us about what we should do with ours and how we should be punished for not accepting your perverted moralities.

Your ridicule of mission work among those you never would dare lift a finger to help outside of using someone else's money, illustrates everything anyone needs to know about who and what you really are.
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #93 on: November 01, 2018, 03:44:03 pm »
But I'm not going to shut up when I read INVAR's palpable racism.

Always where the Left runs for refuge to push their own racism, even when the people they are declaring 'racists' have adopted children of 'brown' and 'black' skin. 

You remind me of the morons and idiots who declare Republicans with adopted black children as racists simply because they do not buy into the bullshit agenda you are pushing.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #94 on: November 01, 2018, 03:59:46 pm »
INVAR, you virtue-signal as much as any liberal I've encountered.    I say you're a fraud.   
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #95 on: November 01, 2018, 04:09:59 pm »

Quote
We need more legal immigration, not less. 
 



@Jazzhead

WHY? We are already losing manufacturing/assembly line jobs as it is,so where is it you think these immigrants are going to live and work? How many are you willing to allow to live with you and be fed and clothed by you?
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #96 on: November 01, 2018, 04:13:34 pm »
WRONG.



Close the borders for the next decade or so, and let's work on those tens of millions of illiterate foreigners that have flooded us in the last several decades before we give thought to opening the border to anyone else.

@INVAR

And while we are at it,deport any and all of them that fail to pass a English reading and writing test,and who can't prove where they have been working and paying income taxes and rent since they first got here.

This ain't the 1800's. WE don't need YOU,YOU need US.
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Offline dfwgator

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #97 on: November 01, 2018, 04:14:52 pm »
Illegals coming here to give birth is a problem, but it's a very small problem.    The destruction to our booming economy, if employers can't get the workers they need, is a very big problem.

 

End welfare for the able-bodied, that will solve that problem.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #98 on: November 01, 2018, 04:20:03 pm »
Quote
We're talking past each other.   This isn't about illegal immigration.   It is about immigration of the legal variety - absolutely essential to our prosperity.   Immigrants have, since the birth of the Republic, come here for work and opportunity, not to squat.   My grandparents were all immigrants.  Perhaps yours were too.     

@Jazzhead

So what? When your grandparents came here,we needed "cogs in assembly line". Almost all of those jobs are gone now,some to modernization,and some to China. There IS no work for the illiterate and unskilled here anymore because we already have a full quota and more of unemployed Americans with no actual education or  job skills. What we need to do is cut off the welfare and all the other "free stuff" for the ones that are healthy enough to do menial work,and put THEIR asses to work,not bring in even more people who can't read,write,or speak the language,and who want to make America just like the 3rd world shithole they just escaped from.


Quote
I know exactly why you oppose "third world" immigration.   And it hasn't a damn thing to do with either patriotism, or Christian compassion.

Is that you,Tim Kaine? Why not tell us all why Americans want to put America first?
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans
« Reply #99 on: November 01, 2018, 04:22:52 pm »
Your naked racism comes shining through.   You want immigration by whites only,  the brown ones are just coming here to "outbreed" us.  Be honest and admit it. 

Simply disgusting.   

@Jazzhead

Ahhh,Pavlov rang the bell,and you barked in answer. Congradualtions! You have proved you are as smart as a lab dog,and able to learn simple tasks.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!