Paul Ryan shoots down Trump's birthright citizenship plans

[DB]

INVAR, you virtue-signal as much as any liberal I've encountered.    I say you're a fraud.

You are way off the rails here. You call someone a racist and then when they provide a defense that proves your claim wrong you say they are virtue signaling. You really should apologize if you have it in you.

American culture with its roots in individual liberty flowing from our constitution is what has made America successful and the exception in the world. The 1st and 2nd amendments particularly speak to that. People looking for a job and/or benefits with no interest in our culture or history are a slow poisoning this country. It is shifting the country off its foundations and will cause its collapse if not stopped. The vast majority of these type people are trying to escape the hell hole they come from built on the very culture they demand to bring here. Those cultures are not compatible with liberty.

[DB]

@INVAR @roamer_1
Virtue signaling is still what I see.

Of course it is... Do you beat your wife often?

[Jazzhead]

You are way off the rails here. You call someone a racist and then when they provide a defense that proves your claim wrong you say they are virtue signaling. You really should apologize if you have it in you.

 

My accusation stems from the man's words, about third world "cesspools" and folks coming here to "outbreed" us.   My opinion of the man and his "virtue" is unchanged.   

American culture with its roots in individual liberty flowing from our constitution is what has made America successful and the exception in the world. The 1st and 2nd amendments particularly speak to that. People looking for a job and/or benefits with no interest in our culture or history are a slow poisoning this country. It is shifting the country off its foundations and will cause its collapse if not stopped. The vast majority of these type people are trying to escape the hell hole they come from built on the very culture they demand to bring here. Those cultures are not compatible with liberty.

I agree completely with the first sentence above.   But I disagree that today's immigrants cannot and will not assimilate and become great Americans.   First generation immigrants tend to retain their language and culture (and stick together with folks they know and can communicate with)  but the second generation usually soars.   It's the same with Hispanics as it is with Swedes, and I can say so from experience (I'm the grandchild of Swedish immigrants who married the daughter of Mexican immigrants.  Mrs. Jazz was one of eight kids of a gardener, ALL of whom went to college,  including two who graduated from Stamford and one from Yale.)   

[Sanguine]

 

My accusation stems from the man's words, about third world "cesspools" and folks coming here to "outbreed" us.   My opinion of the man and his "virtue" is unchanged.   

I agree completely with the first sentence above.   But I disagree that today's immigrants cannot and will not assimilate and become great Americans.   First generation immigrants tend to retain their language and culture (and stick together with folks they know and can communicate with)  but the second generation usually soars.   It's the same with Hispanics as it is with Swedes, and I can say so from experience (I'm the grandchild of Swedish immigrants who married the daughter of Mexican immigrants.  Mrs. Jazz was one of eight kids of a gardener, ALL of whom went to college,  including two who graduated from Stamford and one from Yale.)

@Jazzhead, no, all cultures are not the same.  We do have data on second and third generation third-world hispanic immigrants and no, it's not all rainbows and sunshine.  Quite the opposite actually.

[skeeter]

@Jazzhead, no, all cultures are not the same.  We do have data on second and third generation third-world hispanic immigrants and no, it's not all rainbows and sunshine.  Quite the opposite actually.

The crap they're feeding kinds on college campuses a case in point. Hate to burst the pizza & rainbow crowd's bubble but the left is choosing up sides by tribe.

I'm not doing it. They are.

[DB]

 

My accusation stems from the man's words, about third world "cesspools" and folks coming here to "outbreed" us.   My opinion of the man and his "virtue" is unchanged.   

I agree completely with the first sentence above.   But I disagree that today's immigrants cannot and will not assimilate and become great Americans.   First generation immigrants tend to retain their language and culture (and stick together with folks they know and can communicate with)  but the second generation usually soars.   It's the same with Hispanics as it is with Swedes, and I can say so from experience (I'm the grandchild of Swedish immigrants who married the daughter of Mexican immigrants.  Mrs. Jazz was one of eight kids of a gardener, ALL of whom went to college,  including two who graduated from Stamford and one from Yale.)

Lots of little Mexico's in California and more popping up daily. Places where few speak English and the businesses use Spanish signs exclusively. Every night there are numerous shootings and stabbing over gang turf. Even public school classes are taught in Spanish. They have little interest in the culture of the United States. They are here for work and benefits only. When you have one of these city's in your county, the vast majority of your county's services get consumed by this city over everyone else paying the taxes in the county. Hospitals are decimated by these people.

Are there exceptions, absolutely. Those exceptions have mostly legally immigrated here.

Regarding "cesspool", have you been anywhere in the world? Much of India and parts of south America are in fact cesspools. Regarding out breeding us, that is exactly the plan of some groups. Ever heard of La Raza and/or the Reconquista movement? They simply conquer by replacing the population one small area after another.

[Cyber Liberty]

@Jazzhead, no, all cultures are not the same.  We do have data on second and third generation third-world hispanic immigrants and no, it's not all rainbows and sunshine.  Quite the opposite actually.

The present state of the Barrios where I live is not "soaring."  Almost all are legal, multi-generational households, they don't teach their kids English, instead let the schools try to keep up with their ESL programs to teach them English.  You end up with sections of the city were there is "no habla ingles" anywhere.

Not speaking any or little English is probably the biggest problem the immigrants have (around here) in assimilating the culture.

[sneakypete]

Speaking only for my family, we had a loved one murdered by 4 illegal youts.  I will always have a different attitude about illegal immigration that my friends in New England.

@Cyber Liberty

You are probably wrong about that. There is no shortage of gang-banger illegal aliens that went to the NE to get the more generous welfare benefits.

What you won't see is any news outlet from the NE writing news stories about them unless it is a one-day  event about a gang-related fight with multiple cooling bodies. Again,it is a one day event with no follow-up.

[sneakypete]

@roamer_1   @truth_seeker
So is it you in the photo?

What funded the trip(s)

Either way, it is clear you personally associate yourselff with such religious "good works"

@truth_seeker

Ok,if there is anyone one the board who can't be accused of being a Bible-Thumper it is me,so I am going to ask. "WHAT is wrong with getting recognition for the good that you do?"

Since we all get abundant recognition here and everywhere else for the bad that we do,why isn't "turn about fair play"?

[sneakypete]

The present state of the Barrios where I live is not "soaring."  Almost all are legal, multi-generational households, they don't teach their kids English, instead let the schools try to keep up with their ESL programs to teach them English.  You end up with sections of the city were there is "no habla ingles" anywhere.

Not speaking any or little English is probably the biggest problem the immigrants have (around here) in assimilating the culture.

@Cyber Liberty

Going to argue with you  again. The biggest problem is they don't WANT to assimilate into our culture. They want,and even demand,WE assimilate into their culture.

For the most part it seems to be only Spanish-speaking immigrants,legal or otherwise,and Muslim immigrants that refuse to adapt to America,and demand America adapt to them and their home cultures.

[Cyber Liberty]

@Cyber Liberty

You are probably wrong about that. There is no shortage of gang-banger illegal aliens that went to the NE to get the more generous welfare benefits.

What you won't see is any news outlet from the NE writing news stories about them unless it is a one-day  event about a gang-related fight with multiple cooling bodies. Again,it is a one day event with no follow-up.

I'm fine with being wrong about it.  The New Englanders are just hurting themselves, so if they've allowed the gang bangers to proliferate, who am I to quibble?  They're only there for the bennies, right?

@Cyber Liberty

Going to argue with you  again. The biggest problem is they don't WANT to assimilate into our culture. They want,and even demand,WE assimilate into their culture.

For the most part it seems to be only Spanish-speaking immigrants,legal or otherwise,and Muslim immigrants that refuse to adapt to America,and demand America adapt to them and their home cultures.

You have a point.  You say Toe-MAY-toe and I say Toe-MAH-toe.  I would not argue about them not wanting to assimilate, that much is obvious, but I would say this is much more likely to happen in the SW first.  That's the place they've staked out for Reconquest.  Not that different from the Moslems, now that I think about it.  Just slightly different flavors of zeal.

[INVAR]

My accusation stems from the man's words, about third world "cesspools" and folks coming here to "outbreed" us. 

I LIVED in the third world, IN THE SLUMS, in the cities, in the rice delta - it IS a cesspool. 

Everywhere you walk:



As to outbreeding us:

Statement by Augustin Cebada of the Brown Berets de Aztlán outside the Federal Building in Westwood, California, July 4, 1996:

We’re here today to show L.A., show the minority people here, the Anglo-Saxons, that we are here, the majority, we’re here to stay. We do the work in this city, we take care of the spoiled brat children, we clean their offices, we pick the food, we do the manufacturing in the factories of L.A., we are the majority here, and we are not going to be pushed around.
We’re here in Westwood, this is the fourth time we’ve been here in the last two months, to show white Anglo-Saxon Protestant L.A., the few of you who remain, that we are the majority, and we claim this land as ours, it’s always been ours, and we’re still here, and uh, none of this talk about deporting. If anybody’s going to be deported it’s going to be you.

Go back to Simi Valley, you skunks! Go back to Woodland Hills! Go back to Boston! Go back to the Plymouth Rock, Pilgrims! Get out! We are the future. You’re old and tired. Go on. We have beaten you; leave like beaten rats.

You old white people, it is your duty to die. Even their own ethicists say that they should die; that they have a duty to die. They’re taking up too much space, too much air.

We are the majority in L.A. There’s over seven million Mexicans in L.A. County alone. We are the majority. And you’re going to see every day more and more of it, as we … we manifest as our young people grow up, graduate from high school, go on to college and start taking over this society. Our people … are … the vast majority of our people are under the age of 15 years old. Right now we’re already controlling those elections, whether it’s through violence or nonviolence. Through love of having children we are gonna take over.  We will outbreed you."

I disagree that today's immigrants cannot and will not assimilate and become great Americans.

Right.  That's the reason why in a whole lot of schools, towns and suburbs in America, Spanish is the only written and spoken language.

Spare us your blind liberal talking points.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Lots of little Mexico's in California and more popping up daily. Places where few speak English and the businesses use Spanish signs exclusively.

That's the way it's been in America for over 200 years.  You are ignorant of history.  In the past they were called little Chinas and little Italies.  And the same complaints were said about them. 

Every night there are numerous shootings and stabbing over gang turf.

In Chicago.

Even public school classes are taught in Spanish. They have little interest in the culture of the United States. They are here for work and benefits only. When you have one of these city's in your county, the vast majority of your county's services get consumed by this city over everyone else paying the taxes in the county. Hospitals are decimated by these people.

Straight out racism - "they're diseased leaches, not people."

Are there exceptions, absolutely. Those exceptions have mostly legally immigrated here.

"Mexico isn't sending the best and brightest...they're sending rapist, drug dealers, and some ,I suppose, are good people."
but screw the good people. 

Regarding "cesspool", have you been anywhere in the world? Much of India and parts of south America are in fact cesspools.

Like Chicago.

Regarding out breeding us, that is exactly the plan of some groups. Ever heard of La Raza and/or the Reconquista movement? They simply conquer by replacing the population one small area after another.

I laugh at your boogeymen

Great posts @Jazzhead

[Right_in_Virginia]

Oh, just can it @Right_in_Virginia    Your lips are so puckered you don't know who your allies are.   I've been defending the President's vow to protect the border and limit the reach of birthright citizenship.  But I'm not going to shut up when I read INVAR's palpable racism.    Folks fleeing epidemic gang violence may or may not be legally eligible for asylum,  but you don't do Trump a bit of good when you dismiss them as "locusts".

   Well, aren't you a delicate snowflake @Jazzhead

I suggest you worry more about your puckered lips than mine.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

I LIVED in the third world, IN THE SLUMS, in the cities, in the rice delta - it IS a cesspool. 

Why in the world were you caring for their needs and ministering them?  Now they think all Americans will hand them a benny.  It's your fault liberal, and Ronald Reagan.

I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still.

[INVAR]

Why in the world were you caring for their needs and ministering them?  Now they think all Americans will hand them a benny.

Monster of a world of difference in using my own time and money to do missions and charity - quite another to empower and advocate government take your neighbor's money at gunpoint and do charity in your stead, so you can feel virtuous and compassionate.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Monster of a world of difference in using my own time and money to do missions and charity - quite another to empower and advocate government take your neighbor's money at gunpoint and do charity in your stead, so you can feel virtuous and compassionate.

I do not feel better when that enforced charity is given to white guy, or even an American.  The problem for me is not which popular group (old people, people who want to take time off between jobs, farm subsidies, steel businesses) and unpopular groups (refugees, dreamers, illegal veterans) gets the enforced charity.  My problem is the enforced charity.

[libertybele]

@Cyber Liberty

Going to argue with you  again. The biggest problem is they don't WANT to assimilate into our culture. They want,and even demand,WE assimilate into their culture.

For the most part it seems to be only Spanish-speaking immigrants,legal or otherwise,and Muslim immigrants that refuse to adapt to America,and demand America adapt to them and their home cultures.

I absolutely agree with you.  It is quite amazing and to me rather disrespectful, to be around a group of individual of Latino decent who speak Spanish in very loud voices which is obviously done on purpose.  My hubby and I two years ago went to a New Years Eve Celebration and we had been sitting in the same area for hours eating and drinking at the sidewalk cafe, waiting for the fireworks.  A group of Latinos came in and rather than finding a seat (which there were none left) they decided to stand right in front of us (which was rude to begin with) and spoke as loudly as they could in Spanish.  As time went on, more and more Latino's joined the group and kept looking at us, like we should give up our seats because we were outnumbered.  No way. We stayed put!  You can't tell me that they want to assimilate, but rather want us assimilate to them.  No way!

Same generalization can be said for Muslims, they wear the traditional Muslim garb, and often speak with foreign tongue. Nope not going to assimilate to them.  Some have challenged our laws against Sharia and they are infiltrating our liberal school system, expecting acceptance of Sharia.

It was interesting, I went into our local cell phone store to get my cellphone looked at.  My screensaver at the time was a crucifix with a descending dove; I didn't really think anything of it, but by the look on the techs face, it was obvious that it bothered him.  He though did speak in fluent English and was able to help me with my problem. 

[Jazzhead]

  Well, aren't you a delicate snowflake @Jazzhead

I suggest you worry more about your puckered lips than mine.

So you are saying that I should ignore or excuse racism when I see it?   Is that what you are saying Trumps message?   May God help us if it is.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

I absolutely agree with you.  It is quite amazing and to me rather disrespectful, to be around a group of individual of Latino decent who speak Spanish in very loud voices which is obviously done on purpose.  My hubby and I two years ago went to a New Years Eve Celebration and we had been sitting in the same area for hours eating and drinking at the sidewalk cafe, waiting for the fireworks.  A group of Latinos came in and rather than finding a seat (which there were none left) they decided to stand right in front of us (which was rude to begin with) and spoke as loudly as they could in Spanish.  As time went on, more and more Latino's joined the group and kept looking at us, like we should give up our seats because we were outnumbered.  No way. We stayed put!  You can't tell me that they want to assimilate, but rather want us assimilate to them.  No way!

Good Lord!  Latinos speaking loudly and standing close to you?  Even on New Year's Eve they did not have the courtesy to speak English?  They wanted to assimilate you into their Loud, and no doubt drunken Spanish speaking madness???  Thank Heaven you stayed strong.

Same generalization can be said for Muslims, they wear the traditional Muslim garb, and often speak with foreign tongue. Nope not going to assimilate to them.  Some have challenged our laws against Sharia and they are infiltrating our liberal school system, expecting acceptance of Sharia.

Can you imagine some heathen flaunting their religious dress, symbolism, and culture in our Christian nation...I can tell by your avatar that's not something you would endorse.  The nerve of these people. 

It was interesting, I went into our local cell phone store to get my cellphone looked at.  My screensaver at the time was a crucifix with a descending dove; I didn't really think anything of it, but by the look on the techs face, it was obvious that it bothered him.  He though did speak in fluent English and was able to help me with my problem.

Owning a Muslim for Christ.   

[libertybele]

Oh, just can it @Right_in_Virginia    Your lips are so puckered you don't know who your allies are.   I've been defending the President's vow to protect the border and limit the reach of birthright citizenship.  But I'm not going to shut up when I read INVAR's palpable racism.    Folks fleeing epidemic gang violence may or may not be legally eligible for asylum,  but you don't do Trump a bit of good when you dismiss them as "locusts".

Normally, I don't intervene in other's arguments, nor do I consider myself a Trump supporter per se, but I don't see either @INVAR or RIV comments as racist, but rather describing the situation truthfully and perhaps being somewhat blunt.  We have 14,000 or so illegals coming at us; some thugs, some criminals, some armed, some dangerous, some ruthless, ... they want and expect entrance into our country.  So, @Jazzhead, what would you call them?  Dear darling displaced people?  Kind honorable courageous people?

For one, if you are one fleeing epidemic gang violence you don't waltz into someone's else's country and inflict mayhem on that country, or inflict violence on its people.  Many of these people were offered asylum in a couple of cities in Mexico and they refused because they wanted entry into the U.S.  So ... should we accept everyone who screams hardship, fear, etc., into this country?  Have you absolutely not learned anything by watching each country in Europe lose their sovereignty?

Secondly, to blame someone else's words or actions on Trump is absolutely ridiculous.  That's no different than me blaming something you said or did on Trump. I for one am very tired of this blame game.

[Emjay]

The present state of the Barrios where I live is not "soaring."  Almost all are legal, multi-generational households, they don't teach their kids English, instead let the schools try to keep up with their ESL programs to teach them English.  You end up with sections of the city were there is "no habla ingles" anywhere.

Not speaking any or little English is probably the biggest problem the immigrants have (around here) in assimilating the culture.

"Press one for Spanish."   Way too true.  My husband had a Mexican barber for years.  The guy told him that the first thing he told his sons was that they could never succeed unless they learned English.  They did both, succeed and learn English.  I had a yard guy I really liked  Wonderful guy.  His English was okay, not great.  His little boys spoke perfect English but his wife spoke only Spanish.

[libertybele]

Good Lord!  Latinos speaking loudly and standing close to you?  Even on New Year's Eve they did not have the courtesy to speak English?  They wanted to assimilate you into their Loud, and no doubt drunken Spanish speaking madness???  Thank Heaven you stayed strong.

Can you imagine some heathen flaunting their religious dress, symbolism, and culture in our Christian nation...I can tell by your avatar that's not something you would endorse.  The nerve of these people. 

Owning a Muslim for Christ.   

You missed the point; the intent of those Latinos on New Years Eve was get us to move so that they could have our seats by being rude and trying to overpower us with their numbers.  That is not assimilating, that is flat out thinking that they are entitled!

As for 'owning' a Muslim ... what a twist of words and misconstruing my point.  The point I was trying to make was that he has made an effort to assimilate.

By the way, anytime you want to open your door and allow a couple of people from the caravan mobs into your home, you are more than welcome to do so.  The good news for them, you won't be expecting them to assimilate, and they know to expect that you will hand them everything that they want and need at no cost.  Hopefully for you they won't overstay their welcome.

Sorry, but those who don't want to assimilate and fail to assimilate have no intention of becoming an American.  If they don't want to be an American, then they have absolutely no business being here.  It's as simple as that.   

“In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”

[Chosen Daughter]

https://omny.fm/shows/the-conservative-conscience-with-daniel-horowitz/your-ultimate-guide-to-sovereignty-and-the-birthri

podcast

[DB]

That's the way it's been in America for over 200 years.  You are ignorant of history.  In the past they were called little Chinas and little Italies.  And the same complaints were said about them. 

In Chicago.

Straight out racism - "they're diseased leaches, not people."

"Mexico isn't sending the best and brightest...they're sending rapist, drug dealers, and some ,I suppose, are good people."
but screw the good people. 

Like Chicago.

I laugh at your boogeymen

Great posts @Jazzhead

You obviously haven't lived in or near one of these areas.

Thanks for calling me a racist.

That brings the conversation to an end. Probably permanently.