DHS Announces Program To Illegally Scan Our Faces

[driftdiver]

That’s terrible....but perimeter security at the airport is conducted by city police....and by private security contracted by cities. So your story makes my point....local and private security generally stinks. And airport employee background screening is also a function of city and airport officials...not TSA. That being the case, why would anyone want to extend that kind of incompetence to Checkpoint security?

@Mesaclone
Nice deflection but the TSA has the terminals too.

The governments own tests show the TSA has an 80% failure rate at detecting bombs and weapons at the checkpoints.

80% Failure rate

[Oceander]

@driftdiver
@Mesaclone

My POV is we'd all be better served by spending a huge portion of TSA's budget hiring more Armed Air Marshals packing high cap 9 .mm. with downloaded, rapidly expanding hollow points and Glaser Safety Slug type ammo, at least 2 per flight, all ages, wearing non cop clothes, shoes with run down heels and no spit shine, etc.

I know someone whose son does that work. While I don't know which flight corridors are the most heavily patrolled I would Expect, and Hope it's the ones near major cities/terrorist targets like NY and DC.

As for TSA's deterrent prowess, I'd ascribe a lot more of their supposed success to the terrorists knowing the guy sitting in back of them Might be the one who blows their head off than the Take Your Adult Diaper off M'am crowd at check in.

Just as a tangent: it’s surprising how much of a giveaway shoes can be.

[driftdiver]

@driftdiver

Thanks for the hole in the fence, burka cleaning crew. I've read about the cleaning crews before, and similar horror stories about unrestricted access with people who Should know better just not caring.

"A 1 inch nail file is far less dangerous then a pencil, pen, luggage handle, broken wine bottle, or ripped apart soda can.

Not to even mention the knife or gun that the TSA missed."

Certain cheap, over the ear headphones where the top connector is all hard plastic too. Snap them in half and you get a two-fer.

Hell, you can roll up the in-flight magazine from the seat back pocket. Ask any weapons trained person how to use that one to gain control of a hostage. Even without any of that there's damn few stewardesses who can fend off an attacker with a decade of martial arts training. How does TSA or anyone else screen for that?

@To-Whose-Benefit?
You can't as the weapons they find in prison prove.   The approach is the problem.  Spending time and money searching Grandma and Grandpa (while letting the muslim through unmolested) is the problem.

The passengers and crew are the security needed on airplanes.  Nobody is going to sit back and let 1 or 2 schmucks take over a plane.   

[Smokin Joe]

Sad commentary on our SEALs, if that's the case.

It's the nail file portion in particular.   Recall box cutters to the neck?  The carotids might be deep, but the jugulars and trachea aren't.

Most clippers I have seen don't have a nail file. Both of us have been well familiar with nail files, one of the weapons of choice during the race riots. Considering he was a plankholder in SEAL Team 6 (the original one), I don't think he owes anyone an apology. As far as your knowledge of SEALs and that one in particular, you can only wish you were 1/10 as capable.

[Emjay]

I will Never forget, to my dying day, these Damn Fools trying to confiscate WWII fighter Ace Joe Foss' Congressional Medal of Honor, in its presentation box.

He was in his 80s, made him take off his cowboy boots 3 times, on his way to DC for another honors presentation.

Joe Foss might have tried to take over the plane by using his CMH as a weapon.

Morons had no idea what they even looking at.

Those examples are infuriating but they are actually rare.  Very rare if you consider how many people fly every day.

[driftdiver]

Those examples are infuriating but they are actually rare.  Very rare if you consider how many people fly every day.

I see children getting patted down every time I fly.   Old people too.   Women getting their breasts groped

[Mesaclone]

I see children getting patted down every time I fly.   Old people too.   Women getting their breasts groped

And you think terrorists wouldn’t use children and the elderly to carry explosives...right? Or that they wouldn’t hide explosives in a bra? Guess what...you are wrong. They have done so repeatedly.

[driftdiver]

And you think terrorists wouldn’t use children and the elderly to carry explosives...right? Or that they wouldn’t hide explosives in a bra? Guess what...you are wrong. They have done so repeatedly.

@Mesaclone

80% failure rate.   80%

Anyone who thinks that's a winning strategy is someone who doesn't deserve a seat at the table.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Those examples are infuriating but they are actually rare.  Very rare if you consider how many people fly every day.

Good point @Emjay   

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

Those examples are infuriating but they are actually rare.  Very rare if you consider how many people fly every day.

The fact that we tolerate Any of TSA's outrages, at all, happening, ought to infuriate Everyone No End.

There is no reason for it and no excuse for it.

[Mesaclone]

The fact that we tolerate Any of TSA's outrages, at all, happening, ought to infuriate Everyone No End.

There is no reason for it and no excuse for it.

So, when you visit the White House or enter a military facility...should you be subjected to screening?

As for that 80% failure rate... that is the rate when insiders knowing the system and technology attempt to sneak very small items like detonators into a Checkpoint. It is NOT the hit rate with explosives and firearms. Further, when you add in layers such as canine screening and Behavioral Ops....which you’ll find at every major airport...the rate goes down dramatically. As deterrent, a detect rate for serious threat items of even 50% is more than effective....even the Israelis would love to achieve that level of detection.

 On that note, take a look at Israeli screening methods and then come back and complain about how intrusive TSA is. Finally, screening is as effective as it is allowed to be by the public...agencies limit their intrusiveness out of respect for civil liberties.

[driftdiver]

So, when you visit the White House or enter a military facility...should you be subjected to screening?

As for that 80% failure rate... that is the rate when insiders knowing the system and technology attempt to sneak very small items like detonators into a Checkpoint. It is NOT the hit rate with explosives and firearms. Further, when you add in layers such as canine screening and Behavioral Ops....which you’ll find at every major airport...the rate goes down dramatically. As deterrent, a detect rate for serious threat items of even 50% is more than effective....even the Israelis would love to achieve that level of detection.

 On that note, take a look at Israeli screening methods and then come back and complain about how intrusive TSA is. Finally, screening is as effective as it is allowed to be by the public...agencies limit their intrusiveness out of respect for civil liberties.

@Mesaclone
WRONG, the test was done with explosives and firearms.   A TOTAL FAIL.   

But pay your $90 and get TSA precheck where all you have to do is send your bag thru the xray and go thru the metal detector.   Do you really think a terrorist won't pay that $90?    Good grief they can't keep weapons out of prisons and you think you can do it with this system?

Tests show it doesn't work.   Failure to admit it is where the danger is.

Stop thinking one dimensional.

[Emjay]

The fact that we tolerate Any of TSA's outrages, at all, happening, ought to infuriate Everyone No End.

There is no reason for it and no excuse for it.

Any time you have a large group of people trying to assess an even larger group of people for possible terrorism, you will have incidents.

If you want to spend your life infuriated and outraged, go for it.  I'm seeing it for what it is.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

Any time you have a large group of people trying to assess an even larger group of people for possible terrorism, you will have incidents.

If you want to spend your life infuriated and outraged, go for it.  I'm seeing it for what it is.

I'm seeing it for what it is too. An assault on MY Constitution. It doesn't belong to Them.

IT'S MINE!

[driftdiver]

Any time you have a large group of people trying to assess an even larger group of people for possible terrorism, you will have incidents.

If you want to spend your life infuriated and outraged, go for it.  I'm seeing it for what it is.

@Emjay
Do we have rights guaranteed by the Constitution?

The TSA has been proven to be ineffective.

I choose not to lay down and lick the boots of those who wish to control us.

[Emjay]

@Emjay
Do we have rights guaranteed by the Constitution?

The TSA has been proven to be ineffective.

I choose not to lay down and lick the boots of those who wish to control us.

How do you know it's been ineffective?  We have no way of knowing what would have happened if this agency hadn't existed.

It was kinda thrown together in a hurry about 9-11.  I know because two of the dumbest guys I knew immediately applied, and were accepted.  They were later fired.

I think everyone should be alert for any signs of abuse without being grievance collectors.  We have a whole army of people with cell phones who put everything out there on Facebook, etc.

Nobody's asking you to grovel and I doubt if you would anyway.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

As a nation we have been so conditioned to view the Constitution - through the never ending erosion and usurpation of it - in some retarded sense of it applying to all of us. It's a lot easier to 'go along to get along'.

Misery loves company.

Constitutional Rights are not a Collectivist construct.

They are Individual Guarantees from God, not Govt.

They restrain and prohibit Govt. . . . by Act of God.

The Framers put them in the Hands of God because they wanted them placed in the hands of an Authority SO FAR ABOVE themselves and every other mortal that they could Never be Legally Chisled or Stolen.

It's the same wrong headed crap we hear from gun grabbers.

"But if it saves just One Life, . . ."

Violating those Rights has become "sorta OK, something we'll just have to live with if it's for the 'Greater Good'."

Then we all walk away scratching our head waiting for that BS 'Greater Good' to materialize.

And Tyranny accretes in the night, behind our back, even though it was right out in the open in broad daylight.

We saw it, we swallowed it, and then Down the Road we Bitched about it until the next Act/s of Tyranny shoved the previous ones off our radar screen.


Stand in front of a mirror and tell yourself "These Are MY Rights, NOT YOURS, Govt."

It'll get a lot of wrong headed thinking cleared right up for anyone who Still doesn't get it.

[Emjay]

As a nation we have been so conditioned to view the Constitution - through the never ending erosion and usurpation of it - in some retarded sense of it applying to all of us. It's a lot easier to 'go along to get along'.

Misery loves company.

Constitutional Rights are not a Collectivist construct.

They are Individual Guarantees from God, not Govt.

They restrain and prohibit Govt. . . . by Act of God.

The Framers put them in the Hands of God because they wanted them placed in the hands of an Authority SO FAR ABOVE themselves and every other mortal that they could Never be Legally Chisled or Stolen.

It's the same wrong headed crap we hear from gun grabbers.

"But if it saves just One Life, . . ."

Violating those Rights has become "sorta OK, something we'll just have to live with if it's for the 'Greater Good'."

Then we all walk away scratching our head waiting for that BS 'Greater Good' to materialize.

And Tyranny accretes in the night, behind our back, even though it was right out in the open in broad daylight.

We saw it, we swallowed it, and then Down the Road we Bitched about it until the next Act/s of Tyranny shoved the previous ones off our radar screen.


Stand in front of a mirror and tell yourself "These Are MY Rights, NOT YOURS, Govt."

It'll get a lot of wrong headed thinking cleared right up for anyone who Still doesn't get it.

Are you still talking about TSA? 

I don't go along with the "if it saves one life" meme, but how about if it saves a thousand lives?

One thing I like about Trump is that he is gradually doing away with a lot of useless and interfering government agencies.

[Mesaclone]

As a nation we have been so conditioned to view the Constitution - through the never ending erosion and usurpation of it - in some retarded sense of it applying to all of us. It's a lot easier to 'go along to get along'.

Misery loves company.

Constitutional Rights are not a Collectivist construct.

They are Individual Guarantees from God, not Govt.

They restrain and prohibit Govt. . . . by Act of God.

The Framers put them in the Hands of God because they wanted them placed in the hands of an Authority SO FAR ABOVE themselves and every other mortal that they could Never be Legally Chisled or Stolen.

It's the same wrong headed crap we hear from gun grabbers.

"But if it saves just One Life, . . ."

Violating those Rights has become "sorta OK, something we'll just have to live with if it's for the 'Greater Good'."

Then we all walk away scratching our head waiting for that BS 'Greater Good' to materialize.

And Tyranny accretes in the night, behind our back, even though it was right out in the open in broad daylight.

We saw it, we swallowed it, and then Down the Road we Bitched about it until the next Act/s of Tyranny shoved the previous ones off our radar screen.


Stand in front of a mirror and tell yourself "These Are MY Rights, NOT YOURS, Govt."

It'll get a lot of wrong headed thinking cleared right up for anyone who Still doesn't get it.

The Constitution itself provides a judiciary to define what is and is not allowed/protected by the Constitution. That judiciary has determined that TSA searches are NOT in violation of any constitutional protections...because administrative and consensual searches, which is what TSA does, are allowed under that document...they are deemed reasonable AND sufficiently limited in scope and purpose.

So the Constitution and its limits on the scope of government are entirely secure...its only an issue to someone who doesn't really understand the 4th amendment AND to someone who doesn't understand that it is the Supreme Court that is empowered, by the Constitution itself, to define what actions transgress against that document...and what actions do not.

[Emjay]

I see children getting patted down every time I fly.   Old people too.   Women getting their breasts groped

I'm sorry but I gotta say I seriously doubt that.  My daughter flies weekly and she never sees anything untoward.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

The Constitution itself provides a judiciary to define what is and is not allowed/protected by the Constitution. That judiciary has determined that TSA searches are NOT in violation of any constitutional protections...because administrative and consensual searches, which is what TSA does, are allowed under that document...they are deemed reasonable AND sufficiently limited in scope and purpose.

So the Constitution and its limits on the scope of government are entirely secure...its only an issue to someone who doesn't really understand the 4th amendment AND to someone who doesn't understand that it is the Supreme Court that is empowered, by the Constitution itself, to define what actions transgress against that document...and what actions do not.

You got Called on talking through your hat and you have exhausted whatever argument you thought you were making through endless Repetition of it Pages ago.

Now you're gonna lecture me on the 4th Amendment of any of the others?

This is like having a conversation with 2 other reasonable strangers at a bus stop, and the 4th person there, a Lib, with NO ONE paying attention to his Slogans, keeps raising his voice to shout you down, and smiling at his own wit as if he expected a pat on the head for it.


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,[a] against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.[2]"

Don't even Need to talk about any lack of a warrant.


It says nothing about EXCEPT in cases of "You, Grandma, Over There. Lift your dress and  Drop your Adult Diapers."

[Emjay]

You got Called on talking through your hat and you have exhausted whatever argument you thought you were making through endless Repetition of it Pages ago.

Now you're gonna lecture me on the 4th Amendment of any of the others?

This is like having a conversation with 2 other reasonable strangers at a bus stop, and the 4th person there, a Lib, with NO ONE paying attention to his Slogans, keeps raising his voice to shout you down, and smiling at his own wit as if he expected a pat on the head for it.


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,[a] against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.[2]"

Don't even Need to talk about any lack of a warrant.


It says nothing about EXCEPT in cases of "You, Grandma, Over There. Lift your dress and  Drop your Adult Diapers."

Your argument would work better if you didn't wildly exaggerate supposed offenses of TSA.

[Oceander]

The Constitution itself provides a judiciary to define what is and is not allowed/protected by the Constitution. That judiciary has determined that TSA searches are NOT in violation of any constitutional protections...because administrative and consensual searches, which is what TSA does, are allowed under that document...they are deemed reasonable AND sufficiently limited in scope and purpose.

So the Constitution and its limits on the scope of government are entirely secure...its only an issue to someone who doesn't really understand the 4th amendment AND to someone who doesn't understand that it is the Supreme Court that is empowered, by the Constitution itself, to define what actions transgress against that document...and what actions do not.

Basically correct. 

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

I'm sorry but I gotta say I seriously doubt that.  My daughter flies weekly and she never sees anything untoward.

With all due respect to your daughter, and I never met her, Over HALF the people in this country were so alert and mindful of what's going on around them they voted for Hillary./SSSSS

I asked some why. They parroted back Slogans.

I corrected them.

"That's not what she said!" they responded. "Where did you hear that?"

I took 'That' from HRC's own official campaign website, I replied.

And they still insisted I had it wrong.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

Your argument would work better if you didn't wildly exaggerate supposed offenses of TSA.

Your rebuttal would carry more weight if you'd go back and read/LOOK, at what I've already posted on this thread.