DHS Announces Program To Illegally Scan Our Faces

[Mesaclone]

I'm sorry but illegal search and seizure is in violation of the 4th amendment - T freakin' S A or not. One thing that the attack on 9-11 accomplished was stripping us of some of our Constitutional rights under the guise of the U.S. becoming more secure; actually just the opposite has happened.  To feel up women and make men drop their drawers in front of everyone is absolutely dead wrong. 

Secondly, think about it...do you really think 'they' are going to plan another attack using airplanes?  That's where we've ramped up security -- I highly doubt that's going to be their next avenue of a major attack.

Thirdly, putting a permanent moratorium on immigration and visas into this country until we get a handle on who is in this country is crucial to our national security ... but hey instead, let's strip search our citizens, feel up our women and assault our children, all to make us safer!  Got it!

Not true...administrative searches and consent searches have ALWAYS been allowed in this country...and the court definition of both has not changed much in the past 50 years. When you purchase your ticket, you agree to consent to screening before boarding an aircraft...likewise when you enter a federal checkpoint (be that TSA, Customs, the Secret Service screening you at the White House or any other security sensitive VOLUNTARY search). If you don't consent to be searched, that is your right...no one will challenge that. But without the search...you don't get to enter the White House, or enter the Pentagon, or travel on US aircraft. Your choice.

Do you really think the constitution prohibits screening before you enter...say...the Oval Office...or approach the President during a speech...or enter sensitive military installations? That's ludicrous. The search at the airport is allowed for the exact same reason as these other searches...because your decision to enter is your consent to being searched.

[Mesaclone]

Some years ago, I watched an interview with a man who had been a higher-up at Homeland Security. He claimed that none of the safety measures put in place after 9/11 actually make us safe.  Rather, they were designed to make us feel safe.  it's all optics and about "feelings." 

I do believe that the campaign "if you see something, say something" has had some positive effect.  People are becoming more willing to speak up if they see what could be a potential act of terrorism.  But it is a shame that we need a government agency to tell us to do something that should really be common sense.

Security is ALWAYS, in part, about deterrent and perception. And I agree with you on the "see something, say something"...very important. But the truth, as usual, is not so black and white...its gray. Today it is VASTLY more difficult to take a dangerous weapon or explosive onto a U.S. aircraft then it was in 2001...warts and all, it is much superior as a deterrent and as a screen for detection.

[Smokin Joe]

Security is ALWAYS, in part, about deterrent and perception. And I agree with you on the "see something, say something"...very important. But the truth, as usual, is not so black and white...its gray. Today it is VASTLY more difficult to take a dangerous weapon or explosive onto a U.S. aircraft then it was in 2001...warts and all, it is much superior as a deterrent and as a screen for detection.

Here's your deterrent:

Every SOB on that pland knows that if someone else takes over besides the flight crew, they are dead meat.

That simple. If they ein the fight, you are already dead. Thew only way to stop that, now that a blade is not an option, not even a fingernail clipper is to beat on that mf-er until he quits moving, whatever it takes.
No bullshit about landing somewhere and having negotiations or hostage rescue will fly any more.

There is your deterrent. Someone pipes up and their bloodied self will be restrained by the passengers and dumped off at the first available airport. The TSA is the least of their worries.

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

Here's your deterrent:

Every SOB on that pland knows that if someone else takes over besides the flight crew, they are dead meat.

That simple. If they ein the fight, you are already dead. Thew only way to stop that, now that a blade is not an option, not even a fingernail clipper is to beat on that mf-er until he quits moving, whatever it takes.
No bullshit about landing somewhere and having negotiations or hostage rescue will fly any more.

There is your deterrent. Someone pipes up and their bloodied self will be restrained by the passengers and dumped off at the first available airport. The TSA is the least of their worries.

 

So far as I know, there's no ban on carrying a bottle of wine on board with you.

Everyone get a bottle of wine.

You know how much brutal, bloody damage even 3 to 6 passengers can inflict on a terrorist beating him with full bottles of wine?

Wheel out the food cart, mount the dead POS on it, drag it back to the galley, and celebrate by Opening that wine.

[Smokin Joe]

 

So far as I know, there's no ban on carrying a bottle of wine on board with you.

Everyone get a bottle of wine.

You know how much brutal, bloody damage even 3 to 6 passengers can inflict on a terrorist beating him with full bottles of wine?

Wheel out the food cart, mount the dead POS on it, drag it back to the galley, and celebrate by Opening that wine.

Just don't get too toodled, or they will haul you off the plane, too!

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

Just don't get too toodled, or they will haul you off the plane, too!

Can you still carry a pen or pencil in your shirt pocket?

With one of those, who Cares about nail clippers?

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

Not that we are planning on going anywhere, but maybe I should advise the wife to go ahead and let her beard grow out.

This may or may not be related or relative. The last time I got my DL renewed they had me take off my glasses, which I have to wear, for the license photo. They haven't ever done that before. Is it so my face can be uploaded correctly to a facial recognition database without my "disguise"?

Heh heh heh.

Years ago I was renewing at DMV. Guy busted my chops 'cause I wouldn't smile for the pic.

I told him that the only person I'd ever have to show it to would be a cop who'd pulled me over, and he wouldn't recognize me if I were smiling.

Got a round of applause.

[Smokin Joe]

Can you still carry a pen or pencil in your shirt pocket?

With one of those, who Cares about nail clippers?

I can be and have been quite creative when it came to using items around me as weapons. Something I picked up in high school during the race riots. Not the sort of education I went for, but you takes what you can get 

A friend who was a SEAL couldn't tell me how you'd use a nail clipper as a lethal weapon, though, so I have decided to use that implement as the poster child for lunacy on the part of the TSA.

[Smokin Joe]

Heh heh heh.

Years ago I was renewing at DMV. Guy busted my chops 'cause I wouldn't smile for the pic.

I told him that the only person I'd ever have to show it to would be a cop who'd pulled me over, and he wouldn't recognize me if I were smiling.

Got a round of applause.

Besides, if you get in a wreck and you look like your pic they know to summon medical aid right away.

[driftdiver]

With all due respect, everyone is fine with you not flying. Let me guess, you're one of those geniuses who feel like you should just be able to walk into the oval office without being checked by "goons"...right?

@Mesaclone @To-Whose-Benefit?

Meanwhile the burka clad muslim cleaning the plane comes in the back gate with minimal security.  What security there is may be another muslim.  Both of whom make about $12 an hour BTW.   Now Im sure it never occurred to the terrorists to put someone on the inside or perhaps bribe one of these low paid workers.

I had a security project at an airport.   My instructions were to go to a specific lot, a specific corner of the lot and walk thru the hole in the fence.   That put me inside the perimeter.   Then I went to a trailer to meet my contact.  Inside were hundreds of boxes and dozens of box cutters.  You know the really cheap kind that are real thin.

After 5 mins of introducing ourselves to our contact we went back out thru the hole in the fence.  Got on the shuttle and went to the terminal.   Went right up to one of those doors by the baggage belts where he swiped a badge.   30 seconds of walking thru hallways, dragging our carryon suitcases and we were under the terminal, by the baggage belts.   another 30 seconds and we were 10ft from a plane.   

Nobody ever checked our ID, nobody ever searched our bags.

We went to an office under the gates for a while and then went back up inside the terminal.  Right beside other passengers.   

Again nobody ever checked our ID or searched our bags.  We walked by TSA agents, police, and many airport workers who ignored us because the guy escorting us was carrying a badge that a child could reproduce on a computer.

The TSA has three purposes, 1) a jobs program, 2) to provide the appearance of security so people will buy tickets, 3) train Americans to surrender their rights for the perception of safety.

[driftdiver]

I can be and have been quite creative when it came to using items around me as weapons. Something I picked up in high school during the race riots. Not the sort of education I went for, but you takes what you can get 

A friend who was a SEAL couldn't tell me how you'd use a nail clipper as a lethal weapon, though, so I have decided to use that implement as the poster child for lunacy on the part of the TSA.

@Smokin Joe
But they allow glass bottles of wine and aluminum soda cans on planes.  both of which can be easily turned into a cutting weapon.

[DCPatriot]

@Smokin Joe
But they allow glass bottles of wine and aluminum soda cans on planes.  both of which can be easily turned into a cutting weapon.

The simple answer?

All passengers must have one hand, cuffed to their seats.  And naked!  They MUST be naked. 

1st class can forego the handcuffs in lieu of chicken wire caged seats.   And they can keep their clothes on.

[WingNot]

The simple answer?

All passengers must have one hand, cuffed to their seats.  And naked!  They MUST be naked. 

1st class can forego the handcuffs in lieu of chicken wire caged seats.   And they can keep their clothes on.

[driftdiver]

The simple answer?

All passengers must have one hand, cuffed to their seats.  And naked!  They MUST be naked. 

1st class can forego the handcuffs in lieu of chicken wire caged seats.   And they can keep their clothes on.

@DCPatriot
I dunno, most people on airplanes look far better with clothes on.   Plus can you imagine the skidmarks that would be on the seats after a couple weeks. 

But i like your concept otherwise. 

[driftdiver]

[Suppressed]

Note that this is scanning of those leaving the country.  Adds a layer to consider.

[DCPatriot]

Happy New Year, @driftdiver !

[driftdiver]

Note that this is scanning of those leaving the country.  Adds a layer to consider.

@Suppressed
Thats what they say, but since many airports are international they are getting a pretty wide swipe of the American population.

No, the initial purpose of the TSA was a reaction to people being afraid to fly after 9/11.  Its been morphed into a method to control people.  The TSA fails at security every day but by golly they can grope Grandma according to procedure.

[Suppressed]

I can be and have been quite creative when it came to using items around me as weapons. Something I picked up in high school during the race riots. Not the sort of education I went for, but you takes what you can get 

A friend who was a SEAL couldn't tell me how you'd use a nail clipper as a lethal weapon, though, so I have decided to use that implement as the poster child for lunacy on the part of the TSA.

Sad commentary on our SEALs, if that's the case.

It's the nail file portion in particular.   Recall box cutters to the neck?  The carotids might be deep, but the jugulars and trachea aren't.

[Suppressed]

@Smokin Joe
But they allow glass bottles of wine and aluminum soda cans on planes.  both of which can be easily turned into a cutting weapon.

@driftdiver
Nail clippers are allowed in carry-on, also.

[driftdiver]

Sad commentary on our SEALs, if that's the case.

It's the nail file portion in particular.   Recall box cutters to the neck?  The carotids might be deep, but the jugulars and trachea aren't.

@Suppressed
A 1 inch nail file is far less dangerous then a pencil, pen, luggage handle, broken wine bottle, or ripped apart soda can.

Not to even mention the knife or gun that the TSA missed.

[Mesaclone]

@Mesaclone @To-Whose-Benefit?

Meanwhile the burka clad muslim cleaning the plane comes in the back gate with minimal security.  What security there is may be another muslim.  Both of whom make about $12 an hour BTW.   Now Im sure it never occurred to the terrorists to put someone on the inside or perhaps bribe one of these low paid workers.

I had a security project at an airport.   My instructions were to go to a specific lot, a specific corner of the lot and walk thru the hole in the fence.   That put me inside the perimeter.   Then I went to a trailer to meet my contact.  Inside were hundreds of boxes and dozens of box cutters.  You know the really cheap kind that are real thin.

After 5 mins of introducing ourselves to our contact we went back out thru the hole in the fence.  Got on the shuttle and went to the terminal.   Went right up to one of those doors by the baggage belts where he swiped a badge.   30 seconds of walking thru hallways, dragging our carryon suitcases and we were under the terminal, by the baggage belts.   another 30 seconds and we were 10ft from a plane.   

Nobody ever checked our ID, nobody ever searched our bags.

We went to an office under the gates for a while and then went back up inside the terminal.  Right beside other passengers.   

Again nobody ever checked our ID or searched our bags.  We walked by TSA agents, police, and many airport workers who ignored us because the guy escorting us was carrying a badge that a child could reproduce on a computer.

The TSA has three purposes, 1) a jobs program, 2) to provide the appearance of security so people will buy tickets, 3) train Americans to surrender their rights for the perception of safety.

That’s terrible....but perimeter security at the airport is conducted by city police....and by private security contracted by cities. So your story makes my point....local and private security generally stinks. And airport employee background screening is also a function of city and airport officials...not TSA. That being the case, why would anyone want to extend that kind of incompetence to Checkpoint security?

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

@Suppressed
A 1 inch nail file is far less dangerous then a pencil, pen, luggage handle, broken wine bottle, or ripped apart soda can.

Not to even mention the knife or gun that the TSA missed.

@driftdiver

Thanks for the hole in the fence, burka cleaning crew. I've read about the cleaning crews before, and similar horror stories about unrestricted access with people who Should know better just not caring.

"A 1 inch nail file is far less dangerous then a pencil, pen, luggage handle, broken wine bottle, or ripped apart soda can.

Not to even mention the knife or gun that the TSA missed."

Certain cheap, over the ear headphones where the top connector is all hard plastic too. Snap them in half and you get a two-fer.

Hell, you can roll up the in-flight magazine from the seat back pocket. Ask any weapons trained person how to use that one to gain control of a hostage. Even without any of that there's damn few stewardesses who can fend off an attacker with a decade of martial arts training. How does TSA or anyone else screen for that?

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

That’s terrible....but perimeter security at the airport is conducted by city police....and by private security contracted by cities. So your story makes my point....local and private security generally stinks. And airport employee background screening is also a function of city and airport officials...not TSA. That being the case, why would anyone want to extend that kind of incompetence to Checkpoint security?

@Mesaclone

What is this insistence on your part in believing that Federalizing an Employee grants them Marvel Comic Super Hero Powers? Especially in light of the daily avalanche of coverage right here at TBR demonstrating that SO many of them allow their political preferences to control whether or not they even DO their job, much less do it well?

[To-Whose-Benefit?]

@driftdiver
@Mesaclone

My POV is we'd all be better served by spending a huge portion of TSA's budget hiring more Armed Air Marshals packing high cap 9 .mm. with downloaded, rapidly expanding hollow points and Glaser Safety Slug type ammo, at least 2 per flight, all ages, wearing non cop clothes, shoes with run down heels and no spit shine, etc.

I know someone whose son does that work. While I don't know which flight corridors are the most heavily patrolled I would Expect, and Hope it's the ones near major cities/terrorist targets like NY and DC.

As for TSA's deterrent prowess, I'd ascribe a lot more of their supposed success to the terrorists knowing the guy sitting in back of them Might be the one who blows their head off than the Take Your Adult Diaper off M'am crowd at check in.