Roy Moore alleges voter fraud, files challenge to election defeat

[Oceander]

Republican turnout was excellent, Democrat turnout was in fairy tale land.

Moore got everything but the kitchen sink thrown at him, and the most serious charges were made by women who's stories had so many holes that they were even contradicted by court records. And before they finished their press conferecnes, old Mitch was pulling support. Democrats ended up spending at least $50M on that race, to maybe $5M for Moore's side.

And then there's those ridiculous turnout numbers, numbers that beg investigation.

Those are the facts, the facts are not on your side.

So the facts are the democrats outspent Moore and thereby managed to convince enough Alabamans to come out and vote against him. 

I’m sorry you don’t like the result, but it ain’t fraud. Those are the facts as established by you. 

[Cyber Liberty]

Why should it?  The Dems and the alt-right both need him - he's the itch that must be scratched.

I see you got a brand-new dog whistle from your Mommy for Christmas.  Two posts since your return from your Christmas break, and you blew that puppy on both of them.

[Free Vulcan]

Nobody stole you blind.  You gave it away for free and now you’re whining about the price.

Both parties run candidates flaw in heavily favored districts and win all the time, so that doesn't track.

Nowhere though have I ever heard of party turnout that high in a special, ever. It's suspicious on it's face and needs to be investigated.

[Free Vulcan]

So the facts are the democrats outspent Moore and thereby managed to convince enough Alabamans to come out and vote against him. 

I’m sorry you don’t like the result, but it ain’t fraud. Those are the facts as established by you.

You think a good chunk of that wasn't spent on fraud? You don't know how elections work.

The turnout stats for the Dems are bogus, pure and simple.

I don't care who the candidate is, they should be pursued as a matter principle, because that's what Dems do. That's what they always do.

[Oceander]

Both parties run candidates flaw in heavily favored districts and win all the time, so that doesn't track.

Nowhere though have I ever heard of party turnout that high in a special, ever. It's suspicious on it's face and needs to be investigated.

And you talk about people putting speculation over fact!!!  All you have is speculation that’s based on an apples to oranges comparison to other special elections that didn’t have nearly the amount of interest or partisanship this one did. 

Occam’s razor says Moore lost because he was a bad candidate who polarized the race, energized the opposition, and gave them plenty of ammunition to use against him. 

[edpc]

Again, speculation from emotion, not facts.

Dude.

You can look at the Alabama voting totals for Trump and Moore. 

Trump - 1,318,255
Moore - 650,436

That means at least 667,819 who voted a year ago said they weren’t interested.

[Free Vulcan]

And you talk about people putting speculation over fact!!!  All you have is speculation that’s based on an apples to oranges comparison to other special elections that didn’t have nearly the amount of interest or partisanship this one did. 

Occam’s razor says Moore lost because he was a bad candidate who polarized the race, energized the opposition, and gave them plenty of ammunition to use against him.

There's no Occam's Razor crap here, just because it's someone one doesn't want to hear doesn't make it tinfoil.

No party, anywhere, has even turned out near that number, ever, in a special, and certainly not statewide. Just the fact it was a statewide election works against that.

That's the real Occam's Razor. It's speculation to try and gin up turnout by saying there was some kind of special emotion to this race, which is complete apples to oranges comparisons.

It needs to be investigated on principle, I don't care who the candidate is.

[Free Vulcan]

Dude.

You can look at the Alabama voting totals for Trump and Moore. 

Trump - 1,318,255
Moore - 650,436

That means at least 667,819 who voted a year ago said they weren’t interested.

You realize turnout is always a fraction of a presidential race?

[Silver Pines]

Exactly. But hey, they don't like Trump, and Moore kinda sorta sounds like Trump, and we don't like Trump, so we got to hate Moore, even though Trump didn't endorse Moore.

Let's throw out the principles of proof and reason, so that when someone Mitch McConnell doesn't like gets pedophile accusations thrown at them, he's nuked them by withdrawing money before the candidate even has time to respond, and we just merrily go along.

Now put that in context with Ted Cruz running next year.

@Free Vulcan

No, not exactly.  Moore was a very credibly accused child sexual abuser, quite simply.  He was radioactive and many people couldn't bring themselves to support him.  That's understandable.

Ted Cruz is not a child abuser.

[Free Vulcan]

@Free Vulcan

No, not exactly.  Moore was a very credibly accused child sexual abuser, quite simply.  He was radioactive and many people couldn't bring themselves to support him.  That's understandable.

Ted Cruz is not a child abuser.

Unfortunately neither the facts nor numbers support you. When county sheriffs, court documents, and being a clown haired partisan hack refute your story, you are not credible.

And old Mitch pulled his support nearly instantly after the reports hit the wires. You don't think he'll nuke Cruz over any crazy old charge?

[Silver Pines]

Unfortunately neither the facts nor numbers support you. When county sheriffs, court documents, and being a clown haired partisan hack refute your story, you are not credible.

And old Mitch pulled his support nearly instantly after the reports hit the wires. You don't think he'll nuke Cruz over any crazy old charge?

@Free Vulcan

This is a laughable denial of reality.  Even the hacks at Breitbart admit they believed the charges but they promoted Moore because it would have made it harder to support Trump otherwise.

"Being a clown haired partisan hack refute your story"----once more in English, please?

[edpc]

You realize turnout is always a fraction of a presidential race?

It still was.  The Dems brought out 23/25 instead of 1/2 from Repubs.  Funny how nobody cared that Hillary got 729K votes.  However, Jones getting 650K must mean fraud.

[INVAR]

No one stole anyone blind.  The Alabama Republican party Republican voters chose poorly.

That is pretty much exactly what Mitch McConnell and the GOP Establishment said on election night when their golden Boy Luthor Strange was rejected in favor of Moore by the same voters that 'chose poorly'.

Like I said -  the amount of applause for what the Oligarchy got away with doing - solidifies the fact that we the Conservative little people, truly will have absolutely no voice in politics from here on out because we happily go along with the bait the Oligarchy feeds us as they work in tandem with Democrats to annihilate whom they do not want in seats that threaten their hold on the gravy train.

It will be fascinating to watch them take out every single Conservative with this precedent and watch them all drop like flies from political life - dumping unproven allegations that social media and the MSM will flood the minds of the little people with is all that is necessary to achieve what the ballot box interferes with.

@Free Vulcan

No, not exactly.  Moore was a very credibly accused child sexual abuser, quite simply.  He was radioactive and many people couldn't bring themselves to support him.  That's understandable.

Ted Cruz is not a child abuser.

All that is now required to establish that Ted Cruz IS a child molester - is some unknown, unproven and spurious allegation of an "event" from decades ago with "witnesses" suddenly coming out of the woodwork to pile on the accusation train.

And the media and social sites will run with it and the GOP leadership will demand he step aside and withdraw campaign cash the moment the 'allegations' come forth.

And at that point - you will get to enjoy the environment you have helped create and watch someone you admire and think highly of, get destroyed politically, professionally and personally over allegations that cannot be proven beyond hearsay.

But that are asserted as Gospel.

So when a bogus accusations come forth on Cruz or any other leftover Conservative risking the Oligarchy's line, you must accept the seriousness of the charge as having precedent over everything else, including questionable evidence - and you should join the hordes demanding he resign, step aside and retire from public life.

Enjoy this brave new world.   It is well-earned.

[Free Vulcan]

@Free Vulcan

This is a laughable denial of reality.  Even the hacks at Breitbart admit they believed the charges but they promoted Moore because it would have made it harder to support Trump otherwise.

"Being a clown haired partisan hack refute your story"----once more in English, please?

Gee, one more turn of phrase and you'll be the Jr. High head cheerleader, I swear it.

I go with court documents and county sheriffs over media anytime, and never take the word of clown haired partisan hacks as you do.

[Free Vulcan]

It still was.  The Dems brought out 23/25 instead of 1/2 from Repubs.  Funny how nobody cared that Hillary got 729K votes.  However, Jones getting 650K must mean fraud.

In a special election? Again, you realize that even 25% is at the high end of turnout in a special? You've pretty much made my case.

[Oceander]

You realize turnout is always a fraction of a presidential race?

A. And so it was here, too, and
B. That isn’t an immutable law, merely a correlation, and therefore not always true in every instance.

[Oceander]

In a special election? Again, you realize that even 25% is at the high end of turnout in a special? You've pretty much made my case.

How’s Egypt?

[Cyber Liberty]

That is pretty much exactly what Mitch McConnell and the GOP Establishment said on election night when their golden Boy Luthor Strange was rejected in favor of Moore by the same voters that 'chose poorly'.

Like I said -  the amount of applause for what the Oligarchy got away with doing - solidifies the fact that we the Conservative little people, truly will have absolutely no voice in politics from here on out because we happily go along with the bait the Oligarchy feeds us as they work in tandem with Democrats to annihilate whom they do not want in seats that threaten their hold on the gravy train.

It will be fascinating to watch them take out every single Conservative with this precedent and watch them all drop like flies from political life - dumping unproven allegations that social media and the MSM will flood the minds of the little people with is all that is necessary to achieve what the ballot box interferes with.

All that is now required to establish that Ted Cruz IS a child molester - is some unknown, unproven and spurious allegation of an "event" from decades ago with "witnesses" suddenly coming out of the woodwork to pile on the accusation train.

And the media and social sites will run with it and the GOP leadership will demand he step aside and withdraw campaign cash the moment the 'allegations' come forth.

And at that point - you will get to enjoy the environment you have helped create and watch someone you admire and think highly of, get destroyed politically, professionally and personally over allegations that cannot be proven beyond hearsay.

But that are asserted as Gospel.

So when a bogus accusations come forth on Cruz or any other leftover Conservative risking the Oligarchy's line, you must accept the seriousness of the charge as having precedent over everything else, including questionable evidence - and you should join the hordes demanding he resign, step aside and retire from public life.

Enjoy this brave new world.   It is well-earned.

Side comment:  At the moment it appears to be killing off more Dems that Reps.

But, I agree with you post overall, which is why I quoted it in full.  While I don't think this election "set the precedent" (I think the "gaff precedent" --'"I am not a Witch" -- was set a long time ago), the sexual accusation tactic has been proven to work, regardless of how guilty one may think Roy Moore is of whatever.  I expect to see it again.

[musiclady]

That is pretty much exactly what Mitch McConnell and the GOP Establishment said on election night when their golden Boy Luthor Strange was rejected in favor of Moore by the same voters that 'chose poorly'.

Like I said -  the amount of applause for what the Oligarchy got away with doing - solidifies the fact that we the Conservative little people, truly will have absolutely no voice in politics from here on out because we happily go along with the bait the Oligarchy feeds us as they work in tandem with Democrats to annihilate whom they do not want in seats that threaten their hold on the gravy train.

It will be fascinating to watch them take out every single Conservative with this precedent and watch them all drop like flies from political life - dumping unproven allegations that social media and the MSM will flood the minds of the little people with is all that is necessary to achieve what the ballot box interferes with.

I'm a solid Conservative person who despises the GOP establishment (and Mitch McConnell), and I have a voice.

My voice tells me that Moore was a flawed candidate, who could not defend against the multiple credible allegations against him, and made a tone deaf racial comment about (black) families being in great shape during slavery.

My opinion has nothing to do with being a subject of the Oligarchy. being liberal, being led by the nose by the media, or any other such nonsensical insults Moore supporters have been tossing about willy nilly.

He was a bad candidate, and the voters in Alabama realized that. NO good conservative candidate would have lost that election.

Your error is conflating bad habits and uncontrolled, insensitive utterances with Conservatism.  They are only the same in a small minority of you.  Not the majority of us.

[musiclady]

I'm going to leave now before I say something I might later regret.  Something like ignorance is correctable but stupid you can't do a damned thing about.

I know you think I'm stupid and subject to being led around by the nose by Marxists now, @Bigun, and that's a good thing to know after all these years of thinking I was respected by you.

I didn't realize that my lack of support for your deeply flawed candidate, and a single disagreement based on his problematic character, suddenly turned me from a respected Conservative ally to a moronic lemming in your eyes.

But I appreciate the fact that you pulled yourself away from your insult train before you said anything even more preposterous (that you know for a FACT is not true).

Thanks, at least, for that....   

[edpc]

In a special election? Again, you realize that even 25% is at the high end of turnout in a special? You've pretty much made my case.

The case is simple.  Moore was a terrible candidate and even Breitbart's editor eventually admitted it.

You need one more vote than the other guy to win.  There were five special elections due to Trump appointments.  The dems could only take one of them.  We were led to believe Moore was exactly the kind of guy AL voters wanted.  A vast majority of them said no or stayed home.

[Bigun]

I know you think I'm stupid and subject to being led around by the nose by Marxists now, @Bigun, and that's a good thing to know after all these years of thinking I was respected by you.

I didn't realize that my lack of support for your deeply flawed candidate, and a single disagreement based on his problematic character, suddenly turned me from a respected Conservative ally to a moronic lemming in your eyes.

But I appreciate the fact that you pulled yourself away from your insult train before you said anything even more preposterous (that you know for a FACT is not true).

Thanks, at least, for that....   

It has absolutely NOTHING to do with your lack of support for Moore. It does have something to do with your basis for not supporting him.

[Free Vulcan]

A. And so it was here, too, and
B. That isn’t an immutable law, merely a correlation, and therefore not always true in every instance.

This is the first instance it's ever happened in statewide special election, anywhere. I'd call that nearly immutable.

The Ossoff-Handel contest was a hot, expensive, high profile race in a smaller district, and the vote was no where near the percentage of the 2016 Presidential.

[INVAR]

My voice tells me that Moore was a flawed candidate, who could not defend against the multiple credible allegations against him, and made a tone deaf racial comment about (black) families being in great shape during slavery.

Not the issue I was making, however - defending against 'When did you stop beating your spouse and kids?' allegations is a tactic few people who are naive are capable of defending against that will satisfy a polarized population hell-bent on destroying those they demand everyone hate, eschew and punish.  We watch this with Christians defending marriage and their property from being seized for being a 'bigot'.  I found people bashing Phillips because they did not like his answers to media questions about why he refused to bake the cake, and thus have declared him to be guilty of discrimination and bigotry deserving of punishment.

I'm watching this same zeitgeist play itself out over the insane reactions over the latest Star Wars movie, even to the point of people cobbling together youtube clips to assert that Mark Hamill hated even being in the movie while supposedly trashing the director as 'not a fan at all' - when there is plenty of other evidence to show he is. Tearing down and destroying what the mob wants everyone to hate is now risen to a political and cultural weapon of choice.  First in politics, which is now expanded to the culture at-large.

I do not have to remind you what history teaches happens when societies reach this point do I?

He was a bad candidate, and the voters in Alabama realized that.

Ridiculous.  The VOTERS in Alabama REJECTED the other two candidates in the primary and MADE Moore their candidate in the general.  Should I assume you agree with the Establishment that the voters in Alabama are "too stupid to choose their representatives wisely" and therefore require the Oligarchy to choose for them?

Fine.  Moore was a "bad candidate" in your estimation, yet the GOP voters in Alabama rejected the picks of the Establishment and made him their standard bearer, same as the Republicans did Trump a year before.

Why was it that declaring Trump a 'bad candidate' for his on-tape and written interview behaviors and juvenile Twitter rants were dismissed, but that Moore is to be heralded as a pedophile imbecile and bad candidate that doomed the party by the same people because he did not argue in his defense with gravitas?

I see a decidedly different pattern that is shaping  the culture and politics in this country, and it DOES NOT bode well for liberty to be nourished or permitted much longer.

[mystery-ak]

Judge rejects Moore's effort to block Alabama election result
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/366695-judge-rejects-moores-attempt-to-block-alabama-election-result